#guardian

1 messages · Page 18 of 1

hazy mural
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if im not livelogging

rustic viper
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oh no i was just being curios, rn im mega focused on gettin m chimmy b4 reset

hazy mural
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raid 🤢

rustic viper
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need me those gays

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got no choice

hazy mural
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we do love gays nodders

rustic viper
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I think my issue is

hazy mural
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I love how every season theres always 1 trinket ppl NEEEEED

rustic viper
#

I treat incarn as purely dps cd ig

stiff phoenix
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that's fine, i like simple just not spam thrash moonfire simple

rustic viper
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and like ALL ppl, every class every spec can use it

tall basin
rustic viper
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rustles my jimmies

hazy mural
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and im here hating on raid so im ok with whatever comes from M+ xD

hazy mural
olive compass
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ngl

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going from my monk who's had gaze since week 1

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to my druid who has garbage wrs trinkets

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its rough

hazy mural
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yes they are, if u wanna seach for one side of em, u have to filter the dates

stiff phoenix
hazy mural
rustic viper
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my hpala got gaze first try, istg the alts i dont particularly care about are always the luckiest

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every damn time

olive compass
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someone explain to me why i'm doing negative damage please

tall basin
# hazy mural and higher ilvl 🤢

idk how this raid works... and i hope we can increase every item to 298.
if not and the raid dropp stays like this...
you need 4-6 bonusrolls for this raid to get all 298 items... (if you can kill it on mythic. idk how hard this raid will be^^)

hazy mural
olive compass
#

i cant be doing this low damage

rustic viper
#

me doing less on balance

olive compass
#

try slamming stuff in wowanalyzer buts its not a great help for bear

hazy mural
#

get a warr and do more pad

rustic viper
#

ill just go jump off smth

hazy mural
hazy mural
rustic viper
#

😭

tall basin
olive compass
olive compass
rustic viper
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I just wish it wasn't first kill every week

lucid arrow
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make your own grp and veto invites and easy kills

olive compass
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^

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i check everyones logs always

rustic viper
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"CE ONLY, CHECKING EVERYONE" 40 mins of setting up the group just to wipe around first madness

olive compass
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90+ avg mythic or i dont invite

lucid arrow
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don't join checking everyone grps

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they're not checking

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or check they have achiev instead of logs

rustic viper
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countrepoint

lucid arrow
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most ppl are impatient and just vibe invite

rustic viper
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im too lazy to veto ppl

lucid arrow
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then suffer

rustic viper
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so suffer i must

rustic viper
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damn it all

uneven flame
tall basin
uneven flame
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its always some full kappachungus boosted tank who makes the group as well

rustic viper
olive compass
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the real veto is that if anyone whispers you or types anything in their description its insta decline

lucid arrow
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yes always

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if the description is GOT ACHIEV BIG PUMPER

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insta decline

rustic viper
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what if its NO ACHI SMALL PUMPER

uneven flame
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if the group name is onetap its a 50/50

lucid arrow
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any grp you join is a 50-50

uneven flame
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2 weeks ago i one-tapped myth chim with a group lol

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should be fairly easy

lucid arrow
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my first kill was a one tap

uneven flame
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if u cant do chimaerus ur just straight up boosted

rustic viper
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my first kill was 6 hours

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I still remember this one monk from that run

hazy mural
rustic viper
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"HOW AM I TOP KICKS"

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he said

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check details

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only kicked bolt

uneven flame
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lol

tall basin
hazy mural
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think u might wanna drop SR and UW and switch em for SOTF and Moonless Night

uneven flame
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but also the kicks hardly matter to the degree of "top kicks"

tall basin
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bolt > fear 100% XD

uneven flame
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DK pulls one and kicks one

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the 10 other people on their side can figure out the other kick

rustic viper
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its more so hes surprised how hes the only one kicking, yet he kicks the wrong things

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while ppl with 1 -2 kicks at least did fear

fallen isle
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is lust + incarn legit just thrash spam (except maintaining moonfire dot)

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or is it moonfire/thrash alternate still

lucid arrow
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People have this kick = good mentality

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and think it's a binary kicked a spell or not

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and never think about spell kick prio

rustic viper
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can blizz just make unimportant casts unkickable

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quite honestly

lucid arrow
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tbh there should be a border for important casts

rustic viper
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it clearly isnt helping

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😭

olive compass
hazy mural
lucid arrow
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casts a bolt that deals 2 dmg and fears the grp for 5 days while summoning 4 bosses to fight look the same on casts

gloomy flicker
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hey guys, kinda new as guardian, we agree that with the actual rotation the 2P/4P is kinda weird ? we not using some of spells being buffed ? or i'm missing something

lucid arrow
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just maul not being used

uneven flame
lucid arrow
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from tier set

uneven flame
lucid arrow
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Druid
Of
The
Caca

gloomy flicker
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DOTC ? x

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ah xD

fallen isle
rustic viper
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lol

uneven flame
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i disagree

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though what do i know only 2 classes ive played is guardian and unholy dk

tall basin
fallen isle
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if i wanted to have fun i would play windwalker monk from df s1 though i havent played it since then

uneven flame
hazy mural
fallen isle
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ive only played df s1 ww, tww s1 frost, and now midnight brewmaster/guardian

hazy mural
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cause think u could get like 10 55 pct uptime easily but u were at like 47 or so

uneven flame
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i wonder why DOTC has LB as first ability in opener for single target

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sus

olive hare
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Getting the 10% mastery amp on hotw and wigu ravage i guess

olive compass
olive compass
hazy mural
olive compass
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Im dying constantly out if incarn

hazy mural
hazy mural
lucid arrow
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i checked one of my logs out of curiosity and i see 42% uptime on LB

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need to pump my numbers

cinder pebble
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While out of combat, does my bear rage decay at the same rate regardless of whether I stay in bear form?

olive compass
hazy mural
mild island
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whats the most reliable way to use dream of cenarius without shapeshifting

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or is it just git gud

olive compass
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So in general i just dont know whats normal or not i've just been vibing it

lone flare
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outside of that, yeah, getting used to it

shut jasper
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we like dream guide in this household

lone flare
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and yeah, I've more or less converted

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lmao

shut jasper
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but honestly it's still stupid to me they haven't made regrowth castable in bear form (for guardian specifically)

lone flare
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didn't realize how much it bothers me to burn GCDs on it

shut jasper
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like it wouldn't break balance in any way

stiff phoenix
shut jasper
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yes it does

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jump or spam A and D

night field
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Do Forestwalk and Lingering Healing work with the Regrowths from Reinvigoration and Dream of Cenarius?

torn depot
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it does

night field
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Cool, thanks!

high kelp
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What's the reasoning behind all of the newer top10 dmg profiles for Guardian all being EC?

stiff phoenix
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Everyone’s playing thrash moonfire spam slop

night field
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everyone is playing what sims highest*

stiff phoenix
rustic viper
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I like my thrash moonfire spam slop

shy berry
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Hey guys - been really enjoying the m+ thrash moonfire build but have been asked to tank heroic tonight. I take it the raid build is different? Are icy veins wowhead up to date with the recent balance changes?

mild island
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yes and likely whatever build is on icy veins will be better than thrash moonfire slop in raid

shy berry
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thought so thanks

sharp gale
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just follow builds in pins probably better

lone flare
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if in doubt - always check the pins or the dreamgrove compendium

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(linked in the channel info)

shy berry
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cool will use pinned builds thanks

high kelp
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Actually, it's in raid

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This is just from Vora, but, all of the newest rankings are EC based

shut jasper
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the thrash change was just quite positive for EC

wild kite
high kelp
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So you're saying it's because they cleave trash

wild kite
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even in pure ST

high kelp
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Really?

shut jasper
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nah not necessarily cleave

high kelp
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huh

shut jasper
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most of the top logs on vora barely have add damage

high kelp
shut jasper
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keep in mind the st raid build for EC is basically the same as dotc

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it's not the noapex

high kelp
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Yea, i do see that, im just a bit perplexed still, aight, ill have to sim it myself

wild kite
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with my gear (288) i get really strong uptime on red moon, which elunes chosen buffs

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30% from lunar insight, and having beam up is a further 10% on it

high kelp
shut jasper
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top voracious ec log has thrash as the second source, it's quite significant even st

high kelp
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Hm

wild kite
high kelp
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Woah

slate aurora
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So how does it work guardian in M+ after the nerfs? We now play normal or still 2 button rotation? And there is a guide or something updated? Ty ❤️

high kelp
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2 button

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Or, they're closer than b4, it's either or, but i think if you're minmaxing, it's EC no Apex build still

wild kite
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on aoe yeah, basically just the "3 button"

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ST there is more to it

shy berry
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dumb question inc but do you use a finisher when you change to cat form then hotw or just straight back into bear?

errant pulsar
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straight back to bear

shy berry
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nice thanks

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so it goes

Swap to cat
Rake
Hotw
Swap to bear

Correct?

high kelp
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Wtf

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EC Raid build, is 23k better than DoTC raid ST for me

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This seems odd

ashen fog
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Guys, for the LB, do we need to stay in it for the buffs or not?

shut jasper
high kelp
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nvm, can see that with the DoTC Raid build properly imported, the EC is still better but "only" by 6.9k lol

shut jasper
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if you're not running fluid form then you just swap and don't rake

shy berry
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I am running it, thank you

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Also when berserk is talented as suggested in the EC guide pin, is this used used on CD in raid? Would you use this on pull?

wild kite
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rule of thumb yes, but there are times it's worth saving, but thats on a boss by boss case

shy berry
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Nice thanks

grave vapor
fickle marsh
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Pretty new to Guardian and was wondering about Trinkets.
Why do we want Puzzlebox? 😄
Is it used as a defensive? The 2 second casttime feels so bad and I also thought Tanks cant dodge, parry and block while casting stuff? 😄

fallen robin
fickle marsh
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Using it correctly means before of a pull? After a typhoon knockback? Or are 1-2 Stacks of Ironfur/Barkskin enough? 😄

red knoll
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Considering with the build im tanking 4 keys above my bracket im not sure what your point is. The fact you're coming into the discord for the first time to crash out though tells me a lot i needed to know.

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Especially over a post thats over a week old

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Lil bro cant handle one bit of criticism from someone hes never interacted with. Insane work.

wild kite
unique leaf
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I need help one more time 😉
How can i handle the debuff from the adds after the first boss in skyreach?
1rst situation: the adds stack me to 20+ bleeding stack and wipe
2nd situation: i cite the adds and DPS runs brain AFK around and the orbs kill us and wipe too
I havent a idea what can i do in 15+ keys, but isnt funny for me, to play this key and give up after 5-7 min after the Key begins...

twilit hollow
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Probably better ways there, but I just typhoon them back to lose the stacks

rustic kestrel
red knoll
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Yeah i noticed that shit

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So toxic

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Id rather just have the option than waste talent points on a talent that barely works properly

hazy mural
rustic kestrel
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personal preference

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very strong in MT and NPX

red knoll
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Anywhere with heal absorbs

hazy mural
rustic kestrel
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yes

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I just run DoC 100% of the time anyways

hazy mural
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might try doc again and be selfish nodders

rustic kestrel
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I pug so much, I figure the only thing that stays the same every key is me, so I might as well do absolutely everything in my power to stop a deplete

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Plenty of times I've watched someone rot out when I had Dream Guide and was like "I could have saved this key"

hazy mural
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feels good when a nasty aoe goes out but u see 4 regrowths on everyone but u xD

rustic kestrel
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Yeah but it feels like the dream guides aren't really saving anyone, may take some pressure off a healer, but 4 dream guides can go out when your healer was hitting a cd anyways

hazy mural
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aint wasting a gcd on others! spit

rustic kestrel
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If I save even one death in a pug with DoC it was worth it

hazy mural
rustic kestrel
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Just saves me time from random depletes

jaunty dragon
hazy mural
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apparently, because I did this pull, they died

image.png
#

still mad about it

rustic kestrel
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try not to tank on incline

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so hard to see circles on that hill

hazy mural
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yh, I pull em back once the mammoth pulled, but even then should be experienced enough to know oh swirlies happening, lemmie watch my feet cause some of em can be nasty to see, and im already kiting backwards

red knoll
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I dont think people do those in high keys anymore

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Just the mammoth near the hut

shut jasper
lilac sundial
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hiho, i want to start my druid now and i'm confused about stats - in wowhead it's haste / versa - on archon it looks more like haste / mastery - i try to figure out where i spend my bonus rolls best

red knoll
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@carmine sandal can i make another one crash out

tight compass
shut jasper
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mast is also for most intents and purposes just better vers defensively

quaint pond
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wowhead is prolly just outdated

shut jasper
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they do almost the same but mast is marginally better per point

red knoll
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Wowhead is very outdated

quaint pond
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idk when pumps has last updated that but it''s not been for a while

shut jasper
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I'd say lazily written more than outdated but yes glorp

red knoll
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But also it does note that theyre all close

edgy merlin
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and EC self heals a ton

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but that's pretty tough to calculate

shut jasper
red knoll
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Whats the AP conversion for vers

shut jasper
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the damage scaling self healing

edgy merlin
shut jasper
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depends how much of your healing is fr vs other sources

edgy merlin
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so actually double dipping on self healing

shut jasper
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the healing from thrash also doubles dips mast

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because of ap

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fr and similar is what only scales with vers extra

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how impactful is that will be build dependant

quaint pond
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your mastery works on EF

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both stats 'double dip'

edgy merlin
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not really

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well I guess from the dmg

shut jasper
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yeah

quaint pond
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no it literally works on EF

edgy merlin
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does versa dmg increase double dip from the healing as well?

quaint pond
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you get EF then yo uget the mastery heal

edgy merlin
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yeah but that's just cosmetic

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100% mastery = 50% dr

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100% versa is 50% dr and 100% self healing

quaint pond
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wdym cosmetic

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it's a literal heal

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there's nothing cosmetic about it

edgy merlin
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yeah but same% of self healing increase and max hp is just equal to dr

shut jasper
edgy merlin
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in 99% of cases

quaint pond
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the mastery heal is what makes mastery better than vers up to the breakpoint

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you could make the argument against it if the heal didn't exist

shut jasper
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pretty sure you 2 agree but are misunderstanding eachother's wording garf

edgy merlin
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hmm i do't think you get my point of the comparison. Ofc the heal is important

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it's easier to compare the 2 if you just convert mastery to dr%

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which you can do easily

red knoll
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Nobody ever talks about the importance of Sparkle stat

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:/

quaint pond
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yes, and when you compare the two, mastery is better

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up to 2800-3000 depending on if you have teh shaman buff

edgy merlin
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from dr point of view at least yes, i do agree

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but very high amounts of self healing versa could be better

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but that's jsut academic

quaint pond
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no, cuz the mastery works on self healing

edgy merlin
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you are still missing my point

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but it's not that important

quaint pond
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i doin't htink i am, what exactly is your point

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you say self healing coulod make versa better, but self healing is affected by mastery as well with a better conversion rate

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so i don't see how you could say it's better, at least up to the breakpoint

edgy merlin
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because: Mastery =dr in a different colored suit. You can just forget the +heal portion even exists and think of it as dr. Because that what it is. Obviously dr scales up self healing.

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but

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Versa = dr + self healing

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meaning a double dip

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so it could be better if you heal a lot with fr

shut jasper
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I think the argument is that things like FR only scale with mastery effectively from it's pseudo damage reduction, while vers both applies the dr and buffs it separately, that said most of our self heals also scale with ap so have even better mast scaling

edgy merlin
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but mastery dmg double dips self heals as well through dmg so probably it's still better in most cases

quaint pond
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only case you could make for vers right now would be one-shots even after full LB & defensives

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with all that mastery from LB you only need ~1300 total vers + mast rating for vers to be better

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and that is at least achievable now, or if not next tier for sure

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if you had shaman it'd be down to 1143, which i'm sure a lot of ppl can already hit. but that's for one-shot protection and idk if any keys are even coming close to that yet

red knoll
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For tanks i dont think so

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Other than a few tank busters

edgy merlin
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you just cover those with lb with nr pretty comfortably still

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dont think there are any even at 23

quaint pond
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or ther'es some weird ass mechanic like the healing absorb from that one MT mob but those make vers worse since the absorb isn't tied to the hit damage

lilac sundial
#

thanks for your answers so far 🙂 i am looking for raiding i am not sure if thats doing any differences

red knoll
#

For dps theres quite a bit of one shots

mild goblet
#

I have a noob question that I’m not sure where to find the best answer for.

I’m 3.6 brewmaster tank and since gearing alts is ezpz rn I’ve made a guardian Druid tank. I get the gist of the class and have no problem tanking 14s and such. But I went into my buddies key at 16 and realized I am doing something wrong when gathering mobs because I’m getting shredded.

I figure this is because guardian Druid needs bleeds for healing and such. So I’m used to flying around and purifying stagger with brewmaster as I gather mobs.

What is the recommended defensive or set of actions to use when gathering? I’m not sure what defensive are best used during that phase versus when you’re fighting post grouping.

I feel like once I get this figured out it should be straight forward from there.

Any tips and help or point to YouTube channels you recommend would be appreciated smilemk

trim plaza
red knoll
#

I like crit for raiding

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Crit makes ravage go brrt

edgy merlin
jaunty dragon
# mild goblet I have a noob question that I’m not sure where to find the best answer for. I’m...

Few things I do that make me feel good

  • Barskin before a pull this is where bear tank is most vulnerable and weak once you are in a pull with lunar and thrash giving you absorb you are kind of immortal
  • Alot of bear tanks don't utilize using Survival instict it's huge if you are in big trouble
  • Incarn is your biggest CD you are techincally immortal with it spam thrash and moonfires to get lunar even faster
edgy merlin
#

you damage intake goes down a lot when mobs have stacked thrash and moonfires

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and you have multiple IF (first few stacks are roughly 20-25% dr each)

mild goblet
#

Yeah I’ve noticed I feel great once things are grouped, it’s right before that I know I need to do something better so I’m not giving my healer and myself a heart attack.

Is there any priority you recommend, I.e use BS then Survival Instinct, then etc..

Or is it basically just have something running at all time during gather and ramp up of thrash+beam?

trim plaza
mild goblet
edgy merlin
mild goblet
#

Ahh right thank you

#

One video I saw said to macro iron fur to thrash, is that still recommended?

edgy merlin
red knoll
#

Its fine for new tanks but its not good for actually learning bear

edgy merlin
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and then you can weave in SI if you are out, or a couple or frenzied regens

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but using frenzied at the start of the pull is not optimal because then you are not getting threat

mild goblet
#

Sorry, what is LB stand for?

edgy merlin
#

Sorry, lunar beam

long barn
quaint pond
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if you're new you might also not be aware that only the aoe & leech part of lunar beam is tied to the actual beam itself. the large mastery buff & the self heal are always active on you even if you're not in the beam.

edgy merlin
#

SI = survival instincts

mild goblet
#

Ah I’m assuming LB after they are grouped? Any instance you wouldn’t do that?

mild goblet
red knoll
edgy merlin
rustic kestrel
mild goblet
#

Okay cool, so basically have one of those on while gathering and then post gather I should be good. I think it’s just the transition of purifying damage in brewmaster to transferring to a preemptive defensive usage while gathering approach mindset

rustic kestrel
#

do not let yourself get to 8 stacks, and if you do you have to hit something

mild goblet
red knoll
#

Not me getting to 30 stacks

edgy merlin
#

Since Bark cd is 34 seconds it will be ready just when incarn is going out

long barn
red knoll
#

Ya

rustic kestrel
red knoll
#

I dont like that they changed it

edgy merlin
#

and if the pull still lives past the 45 second mark you can continue with FR or SI if needed before you get LB ready again

mild goblet
red knoll
#

I actually ran out of mana this weekend

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And couldn't dispel

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X.x

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Wish I could track that if theyre going to make it relevant! Thanks blizzard!

long barn
rustic kestrel
#

I move at like 4-5

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unless im in incarn or have a defensive already rolling

long barn
rustic kestrel
#

it depends on which pull and your damage intake

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at 16 stacks its going to tick like 70% of your health bar every tick

red knoll
#

In incarn you can infinitely frenzied regen

rustic kestrel
#

get that high on the adept pull after bird boss, and then you take the tankbuster, you're dead

red knoll
#

Theres 3 bird bosses x.x

rustic viper
#

the birdiest one

long barn
#

Yeah those birds own. I need to see my debuffs better, like how Naowh has his above the party frames. Does anyone have any good addon suggestions? I use AUI btw.

wild bloom
#

whos the third bird

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maisara cavern?

rustic viper
#

the wind bird, the bird bird and fire bird

wild bloom
#

wait

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first

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one of those bird

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is wind and fire

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so it doesnt work already

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one fo those bird is only fire

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so that works

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even though he clearly spreads fire through wind

trim plaza
#

Skyreach my friend

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Skyreach

wild bloom
#

ah yes

trim plaza
#

3/4 bosses are birda xd

wild bloom
#

there are 2 fire birds

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one fire and wind bird

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and one ice bird

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gotcha

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we clearly need an earth bird blizzard what are you doing

rustic viper
violet holly
#

Hey, so, Forgemaster boss in pit, does the tank get the glacial overload debuff as well? We had an instance yesterday where 3 ppl died after the overload, our ore chunk was very close to the forge and we think the LoS didn't work, but looking at the logs neither me nor the dk got the debuff(dk had AMS active so its probably it) and the other 3 got the debuff and died after the stomp.
Log right as the cast is to go off https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/K2yd9B1fNjYGP6MT?fight=last&view=replay&position=565970
I'm wondering if even though the ore was super close, the positioning could have been adjusted so the LoS worked

rustic viper
#

its identity is that its the birdiest of em all

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ig the last one is more of a sun bird

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rather than jsut fire

wild bloom
#

we need a dungeon with only birds

rustic viper
#

so many birds...

red knoll
wild bloom
#

nana

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not bird men

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and fire elementals

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JUST BIRDS

red knoll
#

Why would we be killing the birds

covert moth
half surge
#

for high end bear tank (lets say 17-19 keys) which talent should i go for?

image.png
red knoll
#

Dream Guide kinda sucks but doesnt use up any globals

#

Doc is better imo and actually synergizes properly with reinvig

olive hare
#

Imho its DG all the way. The synergy with reinvigoration is whats me driving me away from DoC tbh. Sucks to eat your DoC procs by pressing FR, especially if youre not running NR.

rustic kestrel
#

Reinvig eats both, but doesnt buff dream guides properly

olive hare
#

Are you 100% sure it eats dg charges? I think I heard otherwise in here

rustic kestrel
#

it does

#

It consumes it, but doesn't buff properly

hazy mural
olive hare
#

Okay that sucks, back to tracking those

burnt sandal
#

Or go brambles and other talents and just trololololol around

olive hare
#

doesnt compete with brambles, but OP infected wounds.

#

especially strong with no apex

red knoll
#

Is infected wounds still mortal strike?

#

Its useful in some dungeons

#

This tier

#

You dont have to kite the boss out of the circle in AA, the guys in MT are significantly less dangerous cuz they heal less

rustic kestrel
#

i dont think its been a mortal strike ever?

red knoll
#

Niche but still useful

#

Oh

#

It was a long time ago

#

Unless im just mixing it up with another ability with the same icon

#

There was a time when healers were just useless cuz everyone had a ms

#

In pvp

trim plaza
#

bear has never had mortal strike, always been slow

violet holly
#

weird that IW was always there

#

never picked

trim plaza
#

in tww it had some uses, but now nah

violet holly
#

I think even before the talent trees in DF there was an option in the simplified tree

red knoll
#

I might be confusing it with a feral ability

violet holly
#

but overall never picked

red knoll
#

Of different name

#

Same icon

violet holly
#

I think its on par with bristling fur on never seeing the light of day

#

bfur slightly ahead tho

red knoll
#

I feel like it was the same icon as the feral mortal wound effect

trim plaza
#

arms warrior mortal was so op in pvp so they baked for other dps specs mortal effects too

#

cant remember if it was DF

violet holly
#

mortal strike but the target don't insta die

#

shameful

red knoll
#

Well i remember back maybe mop or cata they made healers absolutely useless for a period

#

Cuz mortal strike was closing on like 70%

trim plaza
red knoll
#

As someone who exclusively heals in arena its not

forest flume
trim plaza
#

is it really about being bad if u are cc targeted whole match? xd

#

dont think so

forest flume
#

It is ?

#

If you're just afk'ing in the middle of the map ofc you'll get chain cc'd

trim plaza
#

didnt mean by that

red knoll
#

Having a rogue on your ass the entire fight is so much fun

trim plaza
#

like i said, must be fun to play hide and seek behind pillar so u dont get insta cc showing ur face for a 0.5sec

red knoll
#

2 charges of ss was a mistake

forest flume
#

if you think that's how it works, sure

red knoll
#

It might not be now that addons got purged

#

But it was before

#

It was 1 click cc

#

Once they were in range/los

trim plaza
#

and if u play against melee cleave spanking ur assss whole match, thats also fun prob

forest flume
#

if they do that, they better be really good because I'm dragging them out of their healer los and they'll get fucked over lol

trim plaza
#

dk/ww monk combo was absolute diabolical to play against as healer last time i played pvp more

red knoll
#

Well rogues are pretty self sufficient

#

Same with dks

#

I cant believe ww is still as op as it is with having no survivability

trim plaza
#

mw/destro/frost mage has still to be the worst comp i played against

#

cant remember expansion but it was so op comp

torn depot
rustic kestrel
dull stump
#

does anyone play keys with puzzle box on incarn?

quaint pond
#

they moved the bonus from the buff itself to the hp threshold script, but they kind of half assed it and forgot to remove the trigger from the buff so it stil gets triggered by any regrowth

torn depot
#

as is in typical blizzard

violet holly
#

too much complexity, you know

#

hard to get right the first time

#

or second

#

third etc

quaint pond
#

i guess you can kind of let doc slide since reinvigoration is technically "your next regrowth"

#

if you're being generous

violet holly
#

couldnt fix the issue so we rewrote the tooltip to make it work

#

lol

quaint pond
#

i think it was always like that

torn depot
#

doc makes sense since it consumes the charges and buffs the regrowths

#

and has always been like this

#

DG has always been weird and even non functional at some points

violet holly
#

they need to add something so it doesn't take you out of bear

quaint pond
#

it really should just let you cast regrwoth in bear form

#

if someone wants to sit there hard casting it with cast time just let them

violet holly
#

yeah idk how convoluted the code is that they cannot just let it be cast in bear form

quaint pond
#

it's not

violet holly
#

even though regularly it has a cast time etc

#

doesn't look like it

#

yeah

red knoll
torn depot
#

at some point DG let you hard cast regrowth in bear form

#

wasnt even an instant cast

quaint pond
#

they already have the code for it in ursine adept that let's you cast things like brez in bear form

violet holly
red knoll
#

They let you do it in cat form at one point too

#

RIP saberon form

torn depot
#

if they wanted they could make all spells cast in all forms

#

it just changing some flags

red knoll
#

They could also let us macro it so it doesnt break form

#

But no

#

They took that away for no reason

devout depot
#

hey guys

#

7:22

#

do you know what he usisng to track the debuff

#

i keep dying in skyreach cause i cant keep track of stack or time so i fold

red knoll
#

Kinda crazy they just changed the icon on the debuff mid season and didnt mention it

devout depot
#

do you know what hes using ? i literally cant keep track on top right

#

same thing is AA i keep dying cause of it

cinder elm
#

Hi, where i should use my bonus roll? i just leveled my alter to 90 now

brazen tinsel
#

Just move your debuffs and resize them in the edit mode

devout depot
#

i dont want a giant LUST in my face

red knoll
#

I want a giant lusting in my face

#

Death by snu snu

devout depot
#

anyone know?

red knoll
#

I know its an addon

#

I hope this helps

half surge
#

guys how exactly does nature guardian heals?

image.png
#

i dont understand it

quaint pond
#

every time you receive an effective heal, it's multiplied by your mastery and procs a nature's guardian heal for that amount

#

it's a roundabout way to give you increased healing received without using the actual increased healing recieved effect

olive compass
half surge
#

gotcha gas, ty

quaint pond
#

i guess it prolly works on overheal too, they just made it not show on logs if it fully overheals

half surge
#

that why i ask cuz numbers are.. quite high

quaint pond
#

i guess it's a way to not inflate your healer's hps meter

#

seems like a plausible reason

quick schooner
#

Thanks for yesterday tips folks now i feel like im after the tank baptise of fire xD

image.png
trim plaza
#

keep doing it!

fickle marsh
#

I was wondering how much worse the "3 Button" Build is for (high) keys? Do we have numbers? 😄

outer cave
#

Aa seems really hard to do without aug as bear

marble lion
olive hare
red knoll
#

Where are those numbers from

#

lol

#

pre nerf it wasnt even that far ahead

#

maybe in specifically MT

carmine sandal
#

Problem is the best players mostly dont play apex so it's hard to compare statistics between players of different quality

red knoll
#

I mean if we sim it dotc is ahead

olive hare
#

Those numbers are from comparing top parses across different key levels

#

lol

carmine sandal
olive hare
#

kinda makes sense doesnt it

red knoll
#

Not really

carmine sandal
#

How much ironfur does the sim cast?

edgy merlin
#

Well the thing is that perfectly played dotc is more dmg but it's easy to lose that damage from mistakes

carmine sandal
#

Do you use up the same % of your rage on raze as the sim does?

red knoll
#

No one playing dotc at those levels cuz its harder to play and dotc loses on mental

#

not worth the slight damage gain ig

#

when u can just thrash slop

rustic kestrel
#

Tazzers numbers arent wrong

#

Brybear is the only real comparison

#

but his % is about spot on based on that

red knoll
#

They arent wrong but like

#

you cant really compare damge like that

#

its not that the spec is behind

rustic kestrel
#

Comparing based on data you have is better than comparing based on data you dont

olive hare
#

Tbh what youre saying was the case in TWW S3 where you had some of the better bear players go for Dotc instead of EC and could do comparable, in some keys even better dps. But thats just not the case for Mid S1 imho.

rough quarry
#

how much % haste should i have in bear?

mortal perch
#

as much as possible

olive hare
#

As much as the sim tells you to get. Just sim your gear

rough quarry
#

on raidbots?

red knoll
#

Anyways i'm glad i could get andy to join the community

#

i just wish he would play the real bear spec

olive hare
#

He would. If it was better tettleslul

#

Sry, I had to

red knoll
#

Idk mangling is better but he dont do that

olive hare
#

waiting for the two 'If's

red knoll
#

hm

olive hare
#

IF you play the mangle enhancing talents

#

and IF its a 2target or less situation.

red knoll
#

what would you take over sotf

#

aint nothin in the tree worth taking over it

shut jasper
#

SR is more st than sotf btw

#

st

olive hare
#

The question is what you cut to go for sotf, the by far most common no apex build doesnt play it.

shut jasper
#

the one sitution where sotf is worth more

red knoll
#

? u play both

#

wth they taking?

#

ursols warding?

shut jasper
#

a key level worth of magic dr is not something I'd skip at the highest keys

rustic kestrel
#

In general Mangle is not worth pressing, but Its 100% worth pressing in some cases, and I think some players are griefing themselves by not even pressing it a couple times a key

red knoll
#

Thats kinda my point

#

even if ur not taking sotf

#

which idk why you wouldnt

#

its still worth pressing at least in st

shut jasper
#

it's not worth pressing st for damage

rustic kestrel
#

I watched a clip of a druid die to two mobs auto attacking them with only 1 ironfur instead of mangling to get up to 3

red knoll
#

okay?

shut jasper
#

we've been over this multiple times

olive hare
#

Yeah but buloks statement was complete and informational. Yours was just a generalized take with nothing explaining it, which makes it wrong.

shut jasper
#

it's easy to check with sims

outer cave
shut jasper
#

I didn't say 100% it wouldn't be getting nerfed

#

I said it wasn't getting a severe nerf

shut jasper
rustic kestrel
#

It just depends who and which log you look at it

high path
#

if you don't then no

red knoll
#

but rage isnt just for damage

#

o.O

rustic kestrel
#

I think some people are being stubborn about it on purpose to prove a point, despite it hurting them from time to time

shut jasper
high path
#

but even then it's more complicated because you have rage generated/vs rage spent

rustic kestrel
#

but overall rotationally, its just not worth

shut jasper
#

it was only specifically with gore and then mauling only with 4pc

#

which like

olive hare
shut jasper
#

who tf will do that for 1% gain

#

introduce kb and it changes completely ofc

high path
#

Shrug the build most people run will benefit from pressing maul on st

azure ibex
#

whats the haps paps

#

what we arguing about today

red knoll
#

andy came in to this discord to call me a clown

#

thats it

rustic kestrel
#

nothing worth reading

high path
#

if you do some werid shit where you give up every mangle talent to gain questionable % somewhere else maybe but

azure ibex
high path
#

if we're gonna argue 1% doesn't matter

#

then why do this to begin with

olive hare
#

usual stuff. people argueing for / against using maul/mangle. Ofc in hyperboles, as always.

red knoll
#

I mean the top bear crashed out over someone saying he doesn't know how to play bear.

#

idk

rustic kestrel
#

@high path how does the apl handle sundering roar? does it hit it on cd? directly after a thrash? wait for 5 stacks?

high path
red knoll
#

why does he care what i think

shut jasper
#

I think you have no room to say someone crashed out

high path
#

i cannot come up with a scenario where holding is better

fallen condor
high path
#

i tried to do the whole

shut jasper
#

when you've been saying dumb shit for weeks straight and getting pissed at literally everyone

red knoll
#

I think when you're in a public position you should have a better demeanor

#

i have no such position

high path
#

'holding at x amount', 'only use when this is happening'

#

it's like

#

extremely marginal gains

shut jasper
#

when I played around with sr sending on cd ended up being best too

high path
#

or losses

rustic kestrel
#

gotcha ty

red knoll
#

people also been @ing me and flaming me straight up

#

i didnt do that to him

high path
#

like ig if we're technical

red knoll
#

he necrod a week old message

shut jasper
#

I think it was like .7% over the original "hold until you get 5 stacks"

high path
#

you should send with LB

#

but it should line up naturally

shut jasper
#

I tried holding lb for sr or sr for lb and it ended up being neutral at best

red knoll
#

Also called the community as a whole clowns

#

so

#

wasnt just me

high path
#

oh wait

#

hum

#

i didn't notice

#

i must have forgotten to change the apl

#

it still has the whole hold till x

#

lemme change that

olive hare
#

This is a public position RIP. there are people passing by asking stuff, and your offensive and exaggerating takes are distracting them. Guess why that guy who asked how much worse "the 3 button spec" is even asked it. Because theres so much craptalk about the build going on in here. We're here to learn and give good advice for the average player passing by arent we? Seems like you forget that very often.

red knoll
#

You also forget that some people wanna learn how to play bear properly, and the current build isnt that

rustic kestrel
#

classic me, asking a question and making you work on the apl more

#

As of current time, the slop build is the proper build

#

Its annoying and it sucks, but acting like it isnt doesnt change that

#

and thats coming from me

trim plaza
#

theres that

rustic kestrel
#

im a d1 hater of it

red knoll
#

Once slop build goes away we are gunna have an epidemic of people who cant play the class

#

is my issue

rustic kestrel
#

And then we cross that bridge when it happens

trim plaza
#

i just learned its easier just not talk anything at all xd

rustic kestrel
#

But giving information on what we want it to be, doesnt fix what it currently is

#

it just spurs confusion

shut jasper
#

the current build is basically what bear has been for most of recent expansions, whether you like it or not, calling it not proper isn't changing it

oblique moat
olive hare
red knoll
#

I wouldnt recommend anyone level a guardian druid rn

#

its going to get cratered

rustic kestrel
#

right this has to be the most insanely easy reroll patch ever

high path
#

okay ye @rustic kestrel just checked it's MoE to not hold or to hold

#

so it doesn't matter

rustic kestrel
#

MoE?

high path
#

it's probably better t ohold on short fights

high path
rustic kestrel
#

ah

high path
#

ie

#

can't tell the difference

red knoll
#

might be a hot take but i dont like how easy it is to get shit rn

shut jasper
#

it's also absurd to assume the top tanks wouldn't play bear if dotc was really powerful

rustic kestrel
#

now... make it hold to get a nice 10% boost on ~4 apex echoes

#

BIG

red knoll
#

its not?

high path
red knoll
#

Because a lot of top tanks werent playing bear before

#

lmfao

high path
#

people play what they like

red knoll
#

when it was fine

shut jasper
#

okay and monk was better before?

red knoll
#

the slop build is only marginally better than where bear was before

#

like 5-10%

high path
#

if the difference isn't like massive they'll just play what they like more

#

it's completely normal

shut jasper
#

monk also got hit with a nerfs recently mind you

high path
#

optimal =/= better to play

red knoll
#

nerfs that were largely irrelevant

rustic kestrel
#

every small nerf and buff adds up

red knoll
#

sure

rustic kestrel
#

until the water spills over

#

and it finally did

red knoll
#

I think people found that monk healing is actually just better

#

than druid healing

#

which it kinda always was

shut jasper
#

the one to zen state was quite significant

olive hare
shut jasper
#

there's some math on it but it's a noticeable ehp loss when at medium hp values

high path
#

you'll always find people that stick to what they like better

#

even if it's not the best

#

and if people switch to something

rustic kestrel
#

Like me still playing dotc

high path
#

then that something gets nerfed

shut jasper
#

the top basically all swapped unless they were specifically brew players

high path
#

they probably won't swotch to the new version

#

because people stick to the easy version of things

#

because when you switch around a lot

#

it's better

#

sure the theorical ceilling might not be the best

#

but it doesn't really mean anything if you can't reach it

trim plaza
#

need more rounds of DotC to get the feel

rustic kestrel
#

I play slop in npx and aa

#

prefer dotc in the rest

high path
#

it's like me playing totemic rsham

olive hare
high path
#

i can probably do more with farseer

#

it requires brain power

#

and i cba

#

it's completely fine

trim plaza
#

also i have just done some "higher" keys with my blood recently, nice change frombear

shut jasper
#

how's blood feeling now?

trim plaza
#

i like it

red knoll
#

stonks up but still bad

#

imo

olive hare
#

Isnt totemic the current go-to for highkeys anyways? At least in m+. My wife keeps complaining about it because she's a farseer enjoyer. But seems like it allows to dps better.

trim plaza
#

playing as sanlayn in 18`s right now

shut jasper
#

low key think blood's design is hard to nail a balanced spot for m+

trim plaza
#

its kinda absurd how much cleave dmg i do with it

shut jasper
#

it's either the easiest tank to go flop or it's broken

trim plaza
olive hare
#

San dps profile is real. Its just very very punishing in terms of runes/rp management.

shut jasper
#

the fine line between is very very small

trim plaza
#

its simple as f

#

u just need to get used to it

olive hare
#

Blood is a prime example for what catha explained. San is the gamer choice but DB is way simpler and more convenient.

high path
shut jasper
#

db is also just straight up tankier tbf

#

not by a large margin but it is

trim plaza
olive hare
#

yeah db has some passive dr

trim plaza
olive hare
#

I know, half a keystone level at best

half surge
trim plaza
#

sanlayn gameplay is also way more fluid cause alot of haste

half surge
#

i had bark up and still got wrecked and i think i did something wrong later on...

shut jasper
#

don't you also effectively generate more rp with the same globals as db than sl?

#

or am I confused

trim plaza
#

nah

orchid herald
#

Do people still use Bristling fur for DotC? I see it in the pinned notes but I haven't seen any build online that takes it

shut jasper
#

you can run bristling for raid

#

it's in theory a tiny dps gain

olive hare
trim plaza
#

only difference is u manage bone shields easier as DB

shut jasper
#

in practice it feels like shit so

#

probably don't

olive hare
#

ops wrong quote

half surge
#

im not DK huh

olive hare
#

yeah mb sry, fat fingered

shut jasper
#

frost wants a fairly decent amount of haste so it's not too bad

red knoll
#

it only feels good on vorasius

#

bristling fur

rustic kestrel
half surge
rustic kestrel
#

4 riftstalkers 2 war adepts?

#

was that an accident

half surge
rustic kestrel
#

ok i was about to say

half surge
#

and its not the one ruined

#

i mean the others i died at

#

they are the ones i guess ruined the key

red knoll
#

yoooo chains and big guy

trim plaza
rustic kestrel
#

at 8:33?

red knoll
#

hot

half surge
#

also pull after had me sweating too..

shut jasper
half surge
#

maybe i shouldnt charge in to kick the caster

#

and just moonfire-thrash into IF

trim plaza
#

sanlayn is kinda allergic to vers tho, db values it more

rustic kestrel
#

you dropped out of bear and casted regrowth

#

thats why you died

shut jasper
#

not saying you need vers as blood either just that it's not something you actively avoid like the dps specs

trim plaza
#

y

shut jasper
#

ah hadn't checked well sl recently

half surge
#

to help my team...

#

wait

#

wait wait wait wait

trim plaza
half surge
#

looking at replay myself... the chain guy with adept shouldnt been here...

#

at 8m mark

shut jasper
#

I'm getting the itch to play a bit of dk now which isn't good, that char is so far behind atm

half surge
rustic kestrel
shut jasper
#

needs too many crests

half surge
#

route i was trying to play

half surge
rustic kestrel
#

sure does

half surge
#

shiet...

#

i swear i saw a proc

trim plaza
half surge
#

that why i pressed my heal on teammate

#

to help him survive

red knoll
#

YO

#

WAT IS THAT PULL 8

#

is that a lust pull?

shut jasper
half surge
trim plaza
half surge
#

DK used his army

#

and...

rustic kestrel
#

WHI procced at 8:30, you casted regrowth right before 8:31

half surge
#

we break

rustic kestrel
#

hilarious timing

red knoll
#

well

#

pull 8 has the chains guy

#

and big guy in it

#

in the route

#

.....

#

thats just asking for death

rustic kestrel
#

yeah your pull 8 is banned

half surge
#

the rift warden doesnt chain

red knoll
#

yes

half surge
#

should be doable...

image.png
trim plaza
rustic kestrel
#

absolutely banned

red knoll
#

this is the chain guy

trim plaza
#

theres not a subjugator

half surge
#

subjugator is a cahin guy

rustic kestrel
#

your pull 6 is banned too

trim plaza
#

its adept, tank mob knocking u

half surge
#

this guy

image.png
red knoll
#

o

#

my bad

half surge
#

dk just gripped caster

red knoll
#

still not ideal

half surge
#

we nuked elemental

#

and it went good

trim plaza
#

but that first pull, wtf is that

half surge
#

we had 0 issues tbh

red knoll
#

pull 1

#

is uh

rustic kestrel
#

pull 1 is normal

red knoll
#

something

#

maybe if u have a shaman

trim plaza
#

im never doing 3 subjugators, f that

red knoll
#

if u have anyone that takes damage from subjugators

rustic kestrel
#

most people are doing 3 at higher keys now

red knoll
#

you're fucked

half surge
#

well.. this route is inspired by kira... yes yes yes, i know u guys gonna blow up now

#

not kinda his route

trim plaza
#

naah, kira is omega good player

#

but like

half surge
#

i just looked into his vid

trim plaza
#

holy smokes

half surge
#

and took some pulls

#

and adjusted to myself

red knoll
#

how do you even do that with a mage

#

or cleanse urself

#

do you have a pally?

trim plaza
#

barrier

half surge
#

nope

trim plaza
#

clears chain

half surge
#

we had

red knoll
#

o

#

shaman

#

ya

half surge
#

thats my teammates

#

sham/aug/me bear

red knoll
#

havoc

#

yuck

half surge
#

we were fine... untill pull 6

trim plaza
half surge
#

somehow adept pulled

red knoll
#

i dont like havoks

#

they rip too often

#

and eyebeam

half surge
#

into wrong pull

red knoll
#

all the time

half surge
#

but... all i wanted to know how did i die on 8.20 ish

red knoll
#

havok almost worse than warrior

#

fury

half surge
#

also.. how to pull

outer cave
half surge
#

guys i rly need help

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how to pull this part

image.png
trim plaza
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what i have learned about Seat, is that adept+champion pulls are banned, absolute diabolical combo to get knock into champions charge

half surge
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when i charge in to kick

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mobs can insta kill me

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even barkskin(40DR) doesnt help well

rustic kestrel
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Have ironfur for the pull, I usually incarn that group

red knoll
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you should have incarn

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for that pull

half surge
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i planned to save it

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but somehow adept pulled into 7...

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so i wasted it

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after my deaths

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to pick aggro

red knoll
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ideally u have incarn for every void

half surge
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the 6th pull didnt have it but it went ok

rustic kestrel
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Champions and Umbralfins melee incredibly hard

half surge
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i had bark, used sundering

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so i was fine

half surge
trim plaza
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damn u also pull double destroyers, bold

red knoll
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generally you want incarn for magic damage heavy parts

half surge
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last week

red knoll
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yeah u have an aug why not skip

half surge
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and dont know the skip

trim plaza
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i demand check that skip

red knoll
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idk im still learning

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higher key routes

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tbh

trim plaza
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cause those destroyers will give ur healer a ptsd at some point

red knoll
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I can do 20-21

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i just dont know routes

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lul

trim plaza
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sure i play with my lock friend so we always skip from left with gate

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but i have seen people also just basic jump over wall

rustic kestrel
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the basic jump os very close to the big guys

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so easy to fuck up

trim plaza
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ye i know

rustic kestrel
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You can do the skip with Aug, Warrior, DH, or warlock

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any of them can get up there, and 3 seater mount on the corner

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then you can jump into their mount

half surge
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i have routes but i lack the skill huh

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sent the ones which is a little confusing

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others are kinda streamlined

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maybe pit?

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dont look at last pull tho.. have to fix them properly

red knoll
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i dont think pit route changes

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from lvl 2

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at all

half surge
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AA is kinda... same

image.png
half surge
red knoll
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wait

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why is that pull 1 so small

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???

half surge
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where?

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pit?

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ohhh

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yeah i remember.. yeah gotta fix it

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more like this

image.png
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yeah

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p11 goes int oboss