guardian

[quick schooner]

Cause moonfire have that "smart" targeting with twin moonfire aye? 2nd mf will always hit targets with no dot on them?

[carmine sandal]

I wonder why squish doesnt get targetbanned, teams prefer banning banshers' brewmaster

But like what does he play in map 3 if teams ban feral and guardian

[hazy mural]

it will do 2 if theres more than 1 in combat, if u havnt opeend combat yet, it only does ur t arget

[rustic kestrel]

Do they get to choose the bans? I though it was just based on what you play

[quick schooner]

Ye ye, i mean in packs when i gathered already

About hitting 2nd target with no dot yet

[onyx sonnet]

Literally case in point was just posted slightly above on Andy’s 23 run. You mangle enjoyers are coping so hard

[tired crow]

so im hearing people bind IF to both Thrash and Moonfire and just spam 2 buttons? 👀

[carmine sandal]

How so, like randomly?

[lone flare]

I was just amazed at your confident statement and now you're @ing me as if I ever even had a discussion with you lol

[carmine sandal]

Cuz only 3 specs get banned per map and naturally each team plays 5

[onyx sonnet]

Now you’re backtracking after you came to talk shit?

[rustic kestrel]

its based on your top played specs, you dont ban other teams specs

[forest flume]

"mangle enjoyers", you mean people who enjoyed playing a non braindead version of our spec?

[lone flare]

brother I only responded ONCE to you, ONE line lmao

[quaint pond]

yeah it's not a 'ban' in the traditional competitive sense

[lone flare]

talk what shit

get a grip my dude lol

[rustic kestrel]

otherwise squishs group would be dead in the water

[forest flume]

Man I hope they renerf thrash hard just because this guy said "mangle enjoyer"

[quaint pond]

it's just a limitation that you're forced to apply to yourself and you have some choice in what to ban

you don't ban for the opponent

[onyx sonnet]

Don’t play optimally if you don’t want to, but when people are asking about optimal dps that’s the answer

[carmine sandal]

Oh the team picks on their own what to ban

Wtf lmao that's pathetic

They self ban specs

Insane

[quick schooner]

Didnt expected that asking for log review will cause this kind of discussion

[trim plaza]

There is alot more in timing keys than that brother

But keep doing what u do idc

[onyx sonnet]

I’m timing 20’s currently, so I’ll be fine

[trim plaza]

But saying i give bad advice for pressing mangle is, interesting

[forest flume]

Nah don't bother, doing useless pad damage instead of making keys go faster is way better

pointless to argue lol

like i said hopefully they renerf us so we can stop this madness

[trim plaza]

If u want mindlessly spam mf for lunar beam cdr, do it but dont others learning bear tell to not use mangle which is 1 of our main rage generators

Thats why i told him to fill with mangle and moonfire as he likes when trash is in cd

U just came "dont give bad information"

Lol

[onyx sonnet]

Thrash is generating more than enough, there’s no need to mangle and lose dps

[forest flume]

and this right there is why the spec is utterly broken

to the ground I say, nerf it

[tepid crest]

To be clear, I don't think I saw anyone state that they don't want to press mangle. I have WAY more fun on my raid build than the no apex build using all my buttons. However, the initial ask was for improvement with keys in CURRENT state. Current state SUCKS, but optimal is dropping mangle and doing thrash and moonfire spam. Do I like it, no, but it's the most optimal rotation.

[quick schooner]

Yeah tbh my bigguest issue is spamming swipe, i'd either use mangle or mf but my brain is like - oh its aoe ability it must be the best option

[onyx sonnet]

I straight up said press mangle if you need the rage gen in a specific situation but there’s no reason to use it on cd dps wise

[trim plaza]

Its only used for gore procs, if u dont have mangle or trash or gg moonfire to use, but msotly u press it only as DotC, but u play noapex so not neccessary

[forest flume]

playing noapex build it doesnt really matter waht button you press

[trim plaza]

Ye, but this wasnt what u said earlier, now u are changing ur statement

XD

[forest flume]

as long as you press a button you can time keys

[onyx sonnet]

^^^

“Only use it if you need the rage gen”

[trim plaza]

I have done many sims, many lgos and not a single time i have done more boss dmg spamming mf trash than filling with mangles

Not a single time

[tepid crest]

Sims do not include the broken no apex rotation

it's been stated in this discord many times

[trim plaza]

Like i said

Logs too

Can u read?

[tepid crest]

I LITTERALLY GAVE YOU THE TOP BEAR LOGS

8 cast of mangle an entire key

EIGHT

[trim plaza]

Im talking about myseld, why would i care about r1 player? He is playing on another level with crazy skilled players than any of us

[tepid crest]

unless you're the new top bear and idk about the secret tech...

I'm at a loss

[shut jasper]

for the "standard" noapex build this is false

[onyx sonnet]

I’m never going to be as good as him, but I’m into 20’s and I’m doing my best to be close to those guys.

[shut jasper]

mangle is a loss for dps at all target counts

[trim plaza]

Not for me

[tepid crest]

It is for everyone

dude

read

no apex rotation not built in SIMS

[trim plaza]

And i just play way better with using mangle than not using it

[quick schooner]

Why ya'll are so aggresive idc if i play "brainless" bear rotation as long as i play my lovely bear spec, dotc was fine loved juicy ravages dps but im bad at this game cause im getting overwhelmed very quickly so i picked no apex one so i can stress less cause im not confident about my tanking...

[tepid crest]

so yeah, your sims will show use mangle

[quick schooner]

Still tho, blizz sucks at designs cause they implemented apexes just so we dont use'em xD that's only fair point about no apex haters XD

[high path]

it's not

but keep talking

[cinder oracle]

i know parces dont matter to much in keys but am only parcing 20 key level in 17s and i am not sure why

[trim plaza]

Like these noapex new comers are so clueless

Nothing more to say

[forest flume]

pray for 12.0.7 nerfs

[trim plaza]

If u do well, keep doing it

[forest flume]

[trim plaza]

Comparing ur own gameplay to toptier players is giving u nothing, cause their whole teams are full of giga players not just the tank itself, ur keys are not getting timed did u press only mf or mangle too

Sad true, live with it

[quick schooner]

Just why do you play bear as you seem to hate bear players xd damn i feel like in doomer balance druid discord era when everyone was hating and calling to quit playin boomkin xD

[shut jasper]

I meant for that specific build, if you swap talents around yes you will get different results

the build that wants to mangle will 100% do more st damage but that's a different conversation

[trim plaza]

I mean, im biggest sundering hater xd, feels absolute useless talent, i use SotF or some FR talents instead

[shut jasper]

not the same build

[trim plaza]

Ik

[tepid crest]

Brother, they asked how to improve parse. We gave the CORRECT advice and you are litterally going against it. We don't want to be using 2 buttons, but that's current optimal state for doing the most dps. Ofc theres min maxing of adding feral frenzy etc but using mangle for damage is incorrect.

[trim plaza]

But this all started from me saying use mangle and mf in fills, not swipe for this new player and i got attacked to giving bad advice

So ye

Heres that

Not gonna say anything else anymore

[carmine sandal]

You kinda got mogged

[steel vault]

I have been playing nopex in M+, up to 12s. Very healy/tanky, super sturdy. Why is DOTC or EC Apex preferredin raids? Is it lot more ST and less MT damage, or a trade off between tanky and more dps, or etc. ?

[forest flume]

hello friend, are you enjoying the noapex build?

[shut jasper]

but also you'd be surprised how bad soft is for dps gain, it simmed under SR last I checked

by itself

[carmine sandal]

I've been pokemon main since 12.0.5

[onyx sonnet]

Hate the no apex build all you want but when people are posting no apex logs asking for advice ignore them so you’re not giving bad advice. Idc how you play the game, but they came to ask how to improve dps on the no apex build one of the answers is to not press mangle so much

[shut jasper]

it's nice to boost up rage game for kb so yeah

[forest flume]

I see, that's a good answer

[trim plaza]

Tbh u can throw that talent anywhere and u dont see any change almost

[carmine sandal]

And now I'm looking into being a NFSU2 main for a little bit

[high path]

i mea nyou should be pressing mangle in st for st damage

cause yo uwanna press maul

i know people don't

wnat to do that

but it's still a thing

[onyx sonnet]

Still wrong

[forest flume]

Uh oh

[onyx sonnet]

Top keys are pressing it 8 times

[high path]

similarly saying that you should only spam moonfire isn'"t accurate because it's morecomplicated cause you'd delay incarn

okay

they're incorrect

[carmine sandal]

That was 1 key, another 23 pressed it 28 times!

So what is the gospel number of mangle presses per key?

[onyx sonnet]

28!!! He must’ve been pressing it on cd in ST

[steel vault]

@forest flume Im not face, but, I have. I used to have some loss of aggro on big pulls to certain classes, and some squishyness in big pulls. With noapex, I open with moonkin+hotw for aoe threat, and FR at full healt for shield. Then barkskin, into incan, and I feel super tanky with big pulls with incan, and then have barkskin up again when ican is off.

[carmine sandal]

Mind you, that's not what catha said to do either

[tepid crest]

Use it when needed for rage for frenzied regen or brez?

[high path]

like if you wanna tell me he asked for damage

then the advice is that you should press mangle on st for rage to get more st damage

and not spam like an idiot

[forest flume]

I'm happy you're having fun, but sadly my question was a bit sarcastic to him, because I know he hates it as much as everyone who was here until 2 weeks ago :p

[high path]

and thinking if you need lb or incarn

saying 'BUT THE TOP KEY DIDN'T' isn't anactual argument

[carmine sandal]

Moonfire naturally lowers lunar beam and people may want lunar beam cdr
Mangle and generating more rage lowers incarn cd more, which may be irrelevant in some sceenarios cuz you're lining up for 2 min cds, but relevant in others when you have downtime or single target (lower rage gen) situations

[high path]

if you only press moonfire

you're cutting your rage gen by a lot

which delays incanr

whic hca ncause you to not have it up for the pulls you need

[carmine sandal]

And catha's point was largely for damage, which is not the only consideration for people in a 23, or most likely they arent even considering mangle cuz they're too deep into the moonfire spam headspace

[high path]

it's more complicated than pretending you braindead press it

stop being so hostile about people disagreeing with ytou

it's ridiculous

[steel vault]

oh OK my bad 🙂 need more sarcasm emojis on disc 🙂

[high path]

(and also to be clear the apl is set up properly, idk why people keep saying it's not, but it is)

[shut jasper]

most talents on the tree are just low impact by themselves honestly

[trim plaza]

With apex builds u do way more single target/prio dmg which is better for raid content

[shut jasper]

singular talent is a couple % usually

[tepid crest]

Anyway we could get your post on this pinned:

[high path]

why

that's literally what the apl does

[steel vault]

more st makes sense to be better in raid, is apex similar tanky to noapex too, or is it just a damage swap mostly?

[high path]

you don't need to know this

you can literally jus tcheck

by running it yourself

[tepid crest]

1. It gives helpful info on the APL changes.
2. It gives sound rotational advice written out clearly.
3. I found the post extremely helpful when I found it, I thought others may as well.

It was well written, and great for me to find.

I appologize for asking a silly question to have it pinned.

[mild island]

well what the hell lol, default doesnt have it

[frosty herald]

Im simming Aln'hara Pikestaff 295 voidforged, and its simming higher then Roostwarden's Bough 298 voidforged. is that because of the secondary stats from the sigil on the pikestaff from crafting, that the bough doesnt have? figured the 3 more Ilvl would be better.

[steel vault]

yes, people could check, but .. they don't, and keep saying the sim doesn't do nopex, having pin so us plebs could say "read the pin" when folks say "sim does't do nopex" would be helpful, rather than us telling them "go check it yourself", and, your explaination is informtive and well written.

[trim plaza]

U are really tanky with apex too, especially if u play DotC, ravage gives flat 15% dr to all targets u hit them with it

[high path]

i can pin it, but people don't read the basic pin to begin with so

[trim plaza]

I got also attacked from saying sims are working for no apex too

I cant

[steel vault]

ya, but, it makes us FEEL better to respond with "read the pin" even if they don't 🙂

[trim plaza]

True that too, i just hate how clunky sundering is, so i just throwed it instead to SotF or reinvigo depending on dungeon

[shut jasper]

that's fair

[trim plaza]

Or KB for more st dmg, depends

[shut jasper]

I think a lot of people overestimate the talents they prefer though

"oh x talent is shit just run y" and then y is equally low impact

[steel vault]

and that's because the pin was written in 2022, and they want current info. ..... joking but, .. 3 times this week alone I think folks have come here with "why isnt there a current pin" and we've had to be all like, READ THE PIN ITS CURRENT lol ....

[carmine sandal]

Sometimes it's ok to let people that cant bother reading 2 lines remain as they are and move on with their life

[trim plaza]

True, i just hate people who comes here, tells people to not use mangle almost ever, when here is people learning bear first time

Its really bad u know

[steel vault]

well, intellectualy I agree but, with ASD, if someone says "its not current its from 2022", the ASD forces a correction, OK or not ..... 🙁

[trim plaza]

And then comparing it to R1 PLAYERS

[carmine sandal]

Brother move on for your own sake atp

[shut jasper]

I understand but I think it's important to stick to the facts when doing those discussions

[trim plaza]

I did, press mangle if u like, thats it thats all i said, im done now

[onyx sonnet]

And I hate when some old head who doesn’t play the no apex build tells people to fill with it when it’s blatantly wrong cause he doesn’t like the spec and wants to give bad advice and then won’t shut up about it.

[forest flume]

you sound fun

[rustic kestrel]

you mean the one posted FOUR YEARS AGO

smh catcha update it once in a decade

[high path]

wehn i retire i'll delete every single thing i ever made

and laugh at all of you

[rustic kestrel]

I want the same pinned post to be used 10 years from now

[hazy mural]

so we should get everything u did via ai asap so even when u delete it, it is alive forever?

[mild island]

does anyone know why i cant track barkskin as a buff?

[tribal wyvern]

Hey handsomes, does our mastery Nature’s Guardian affect shields? If so, do we double dip off of it when using Nature’s Resilience?

[high path]

yes but no

[rustic kestrel]

its in the cooldowns sectiosn not buffs

[high path]

fr already benefit from mastery via hp

conversion like this never double dips

[mild island]

im looking for the buff not the cooldown

[high path]

same way uf doesn't double dip vers

[rustic kestrel]

it does not exist

[hazy mural]

apparently bugged for matted fur tho

[rustic kestrel]

it shows the timer while its active on the buff

[mild island]

someone posted earlier that has it though

[trim plaza]

I cant sometimes forreal

[hazy mural]

matted is my new fav pad subject

[tribal wyvern]

What is UF? I’m somewhat new to Guardian

[hazy mural]

ursol's fury

[high path]

ursoc's fury

thrash/maul damage to absorb

[hazy mural]

the shield from thrash and maul stuff

[tribal wyvern]

Weird, I have it set up as a tracked bar

Thanks @high path

[olive compass]

how much ST are we looking to pull in m+ on bosses

[hazy mural]

im able to track BS in buffs

[rustic kestrel]

its an addon then

[olive compass]

like if im talking RAW st rn in m+ im not breaking past 50k this feels fucking horrendous, playing no apex build

[hazy mural]

not sure it is

[versed gorge]

Its bc you are no apex build lol

[trim plaza]

Around 50k

[hazy mural]

addons cant do extra buff stuff

[trim plaza]

With no apex, or less

[mild island]

i have all cooldown manager based addons off and it still doenst appear

[olive compass]

yea ok

so im not

[hazy mural]

can only do cooldown stuff that cdm wont track

[trim plaza]

Lets say 40-47k

[olive compass]

running it down

[versed gorge]

Dont play braindead build is the solution

[quaint pond]

mastery does double dip shields like NR

[rustic kestrel]

addons can absolutely edit the cdm

[quaint pond]

but not entirely due to engine limitations

[high path]

wait does it

[hazy mural]

checked some nosex vs dotc and nosex was doing more ST

[quaint pond]

it's just a shield, there's nothing speical about it

[versed gorge]

Blizz gonna kill nopex build anyway soon

[quaint pond]

only problem is they didn't account for it in the shield value update script

[hazy mural]

was very slightly so, so gonna be skill difference etc

[versed gorge]

If u think they really want bears not pressing mangle or maul then idk lmao

[olive compass]

i'll play apex when its better again

[quaint pond]

so when the shield is first applied, like the initial tick, you double dip

[trim plaza]

Just watch new apex is all about trash

[olive compass]

no reason to swap now

[quaint pond]

but if you have an existing shield and it updates the value vai script, they didn't add it

[hazy mural]

but I feel like the low st thing is a placebo or w.e the opposite of placebo is

[versed gorge]

Yhe reason to play apex now is to not build terrible habits

[quaint pond]

same thing with matted fur, you doulbe dip mastery since you get +AP for bigger shield and +absorb recieved again

[high path]

TiL i guess

i thought i checked

[hazy mural]

counterpoint, ppl like feeling op and having fun

[high path]

but i must have fucked it up

[olive compass]

idk if you're not dogshit at the game its not hard to go from one build to another

[hazy mural]

if thats with apex, great, if nopex, great

[mild island]

are you using any cooldown manager addons?

[quaint pond]

if you constantly deplete the shield in between ticks, you'd keep getting double dip value as it starts new every time

[hazy mural]

ArcUI

[tribal wyvern]

So that’s why Matted Fur is so big when the tooltip says 60k or so

[hazy mural]

but it specifically cant do its own buffs

[high path]

oh so it only double dip if it gets applied

but not if it gets refreshed ?

[versed gorge]

Ye you do you if you wanna nopex

[quaint pond]

ya cuz the engine doesn't handle updating buff values

[hazy mural]

only non cdm things u can put in it via arc auras is cooldowns

[trim plaza]

Tbh every tank should be like this in high keys, sadly only bear and brew can really do it rn

[quaint pond]

so any refresh that updates the shield value has to be scripted

[versed gorge]

I tried nopex once and felt nauseous so thats it for me tbh

Just from a game design perspective

[hazy mural]

its very similar to MW monks atm

[tribal wyvern]

Completely agree

[hazy mural]

least in aoe

ppl prefer being strong to having an interesting rotation

[quaint pond]

i guess you could always report it and see if they 'fix' it so the update calculate also accounts for mastery

50/50 if the dev realizes that's a double dip or not

[hazy mural]

no narc

[high path]

wait so is it the same for UF

[tribal wyvern]

There’s already enough to do without a complex rotation. Feeling strong matters

[hazy mural]

yh... 1st thing 1st is to be strong... if ur strong and have a fun rotation? BINGO

[tribal wyvern]

Also tanks having to choose between getting aggro or staying alive is dumb

[hazy mural]

but being strong with not fun rotation u can live with... being suck and fun rotation aint so fun

[quaint pond]

i forget if UF shield has some ignore modifier flags or not

you'd have to test

also possible the dev the implented UF did it correctly and normalized out the mastery benefit on application

[tall arch]

Yo my bear is crying that he has grey logs, do current logs count nerfs or comparing it to broken damage from previous week?

[hazy mural]

they are likely doing things wrong... got logs to hand?

[lone flare]

patches only compare against patches, so they're probably doing something wrong

[quaint pond]

it's only a 10% nerf if he's doing grey he most likely would've been doing grey before

[formal stream]

Hi, I survived the first pull of Dungeon Academia for the first time and finished at +13. I feel like the russian premade carried my bear ass.

I'm still learning and I know I'm making a lot of mistakes. Can you quickly review my log ? It looks like I'm not casting or using enough def cd, judging by what I see on WoW Analyzer.

https://wowanalyzer.com/report/fnGWX18bYxVQyzRZ/1-Mythic++Algeth'ar+Academy+-+Kill+(23:50)/1-Anila/standard/overview

[lone flare]

in all my time playing wow I've never once seen this tool

lmao

[hazy mural]

u got the original log?

[hazy mural]

its useful for some specs

its very good for brew atm

[lone flare]

fair enough

[formal stream]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fnGWX18bYxVQyzRZ?fight=last&type=damage-done

[quaint pond]

like all tools it's just up to the community to contribute and druids are on the worse side of theorycrafting amongst specs

[hazy mural]

dosent look too bad tbh... not wasting much rage

[tall arch]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gmkN6Lt37MK9xATX?fight=last&type=damage-done

I have 0 fucking clue how bear works now. Does wowanalyzer work for bears?

[formal stream]

if you can tell me why i died before the 3rd boss, i have no idea

[hazy mural]

only lil thing from button pressing I can see is maybe u missed an LB cast or 2

[tribal wyvern]

Bear is so powerful rn that I did all 16s without properly using Survival Instincts. I’m now having to learn to use it better for 17s

[hazy mural]

dosent show any deaths atm

[formal stream]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fnGWX18bYxVQyzRZ?fight=last&type=deaths

i see one here

i got destroyed

[hazy mural]

thats the spell bound battle axes... when they melee u they also do arcane damage same time... u took a lot of their hits with 0 defensives up

[high path]

idk how to do wowa i'm too stupid

[formal stream]

i see, that's what i thought

[high path]

we used to have sref do it

idk if he stil ldoes

[quaint pond]

it's just typescript

[hazy mural]

what u wanna do is kite them when u cant stay in with strong enough defensives to not get ur ass kicked

[quaint pond]

just ask claude ez

[high path]

simc is the summum of my capabilities

[hazy mural]

np!

[formal stream]

thanks for the review

[quaint pond]

wowa's prolly much much easier for llms to handle than simc

[hazy mural]

a trick with checking death logs is on the midde u can see the "defensives" u had on... most times theres like food buff, IF etc... but u wanna look to see if u had a proper defensive up or not.. most times ppl dont when they die

like this bit in the middle

[formal stream]

oh i see, thanks

[hazy mural]

❤️

[formal stream]

I wish I had more pugs like the russian premade, rather than the dh who was instantly clapped while I gathered the first pull

[hazy mural]

checked the log and honestly nothing stands out as bad from rotation pov... they also almost had 0 rage waste... what were the pulls like? were they giga small?

[hazy mural]

https://tenor.com/view/ivan-drago-rocky-mad-boxing-gif-12740361343431073274

they know what they doing... if they use a big ass ability right from the get go, they deserve death

[tall arch]

No, general 20 route with nothing fancy

[quaint pond]

huh. they forgot to add damage variance to raze main target

[formal stream]

I know, but I only get pug like this. And then they blame me. I'm a new player/tank, but I find that quite tiring.

I understand why there is a tank shortage in pug

[hazy mural]

ppl dont like taking responsibility and do the most wonderous mental gymnastics to avoid it

had an MC 19 earlier today where we wiped on 1st pull cause 2 ppl got hit by the swirlies

was the typical right side route pull with the mammoth... but yh it was the choice pull that caused the wipe xD

[mild island]

i figured out my issue, if you are missing any buttons on cdm, make a new profile, when blizzard added stuff they didnt retroactively change it

so old profiles are still missing abilities

[lone flare]

typical blizzard

[hazy mural]

[mystic ferry]

do we take hit damage from back in bear druid?

more damage

[hazy mural]

just been looking more and its really weird... ur Bear's thrashes are lower on hit than other bears, even my noob ass and another big thing is they missing heart of the wild... thats a decent damage boost for 1 point in class tree they could take

[quaint pond]

you just can't dodge from the back but you don't take more damage per hit

[mystic ferry]

okk

[formal stream]

Oh yeah, I have another problem. I always forget to use sundering roar. I don't know why, but I just don't find it intuitive to use. It stills deals a bit of dmg

[distant finch]

fresh guardian here ive watched some videos the newest one literally said to spam moonfire until thrash is up lol is that really it?

[hazy mural]

make sure ur tracking it, and then use it even when u think it will be inefficient

u will eventually use it more optimally, but not using it at all is worse than using it badly

[hazy mural]

keep lunarbeam on cd, keep thrash on cd, fill ur time with moonfire

thats the simplest version

[vague hare]

Hello brothers bears druids, anyone here use BlizzieInterrupt addon ?

[distant finch]

ok cool thanks, was just making sure seems weird to just spam moonfire, do I need to tab target moonfire

[hazy mural]

theres more u can do to make ur bear life interesting but it dosent mean u will get a huge amount of dps upgrade, it mainly makes u feel less like shit if u dont like that playstyle

[olive compass]

i feel giga squishy on gather as bear, is it just press bark or SI and then chill once the pack is there

[hazy mural]

not really

[hazy mural]

[olive compass]

i literally got one tapped in seat 20 by one of the big voidwalker mobs as i was going to another pack

wasnt a backshot either

[hazy mural]

no stagger to save u

[olive compass]

yea its miserable

having to press a fucking cd just to group mobs

[hazy mural]

well u have LB and some IFs

also do u run NR?

[olive compass]

how tf would i have IF

if im gathering

no rage yet

[rustic kestrel]

Rage from a previous pull

[olive compass]

not always available

[quaint pond]

need to exploit fluid form

[rustic kestrel]

Fluid form also has a bug that banks rage for your next bear form cast

[olive compass]

did not know that

[rustic kestrel]

But it requires pressing mangle once in a blue moon

[formal stream]

It's right here. As you said, I can't seem to find the right time to use it, and then I forget about it.

[olive compass]

is this a controller setup

wtf

[formal stream]

yes

[formal stream]

I always think that if I use it during Incarnation, I will lose one cast of thrash.

[hazy mural]

think of the extra damage u do within it too

honestly, just use it on cd when u see it up as long as the pack will like for the duration

[onyx sonnet]

Chain more, or manage barksin so it’s up for the next gather. You can also gasp cast a mangle or hold some rage at the end of a pull to carry over a charge or two of IF.

[hazy mural]

yh, this is where macroing ironfur can have problems for u

[olive compass]

come on man

[hazy mural]

if u wanna be frugal with ur ifs

[olive compass]

you dont think i have if macrod

[hazy mural]

never know!

[formal stream]

you're using funny words because i've never heard of something called mangle

[hazy mural]

guilty till proven innocent

[olive compass]

this guy presses IF natty

[trim plaza]

The best is to first get 5 stacks then send SR to instantly press trash again and hope for gamba FC procs to get to 10 stacks, but it also does nice snap dmg/threat if u like to use it in start of pull before sending incarn

[hazy mural]

u sure shes a druid?

[formal stream]

oh i can use it as snap threat

[olive compass]

says so on my character screen so i'll go with yes

[hazy mural]

looks like a rogue to me!

1 wep rogue

[olive compass]

not my fault dreamwalker looks like shit

i have it too but i'll be damned if i have to use it

[olive compass]

wait let me fix that

[trim plaza]

Crazy as it sounds, the best part of SR is the trash reset so u press trash->sundering->instantly trash again

[olive compass]

fixed

[trim plaza]

U also get some nice rage in this meantime

[hazy mural]

now shes a weird boomie bear

someone's chosen... maybe...

[formal stream]

https://klipy.com/gifs/mourinho-jose-mourinho-12--k01KRVY49GCNMF07486A33FYBGT

it will help me with crazy dps pug

[olive compass]

I'll ask elune maybe she knows

[hazy mural]

what about Anshe?

[trim plaza]

Ye its nice, even better if ur FC procs both times before and after sundering

[hazy mural]

the night effect clearly invokes the sun goddess

[covert stone]

Do we have another nerf coming?

[trim plaza]

Only information is they have future plans for our apex talents, thats all we know

[olive compass]

wrong race

[hollow onyx]

Why not just make Apex effects on our tier sets? What was the point of adding another tree?

Is content balance or something?

[quaint pond]

wdym another tree?

[hollow onyx]

the apex talents

[solemn pike]

on 3rd boss skyreach, can you just tank the aoe she does where the group is supposed to hide? seen a few tanks just face tank it

[quaint pond]

you need 1 point per level

[wild kite]

depends on key lvl

[quaint pond]

so they added 3 mandatory points to the hero tree, 4 points to the spec tree that's supposed to be mandatory, and 3 extra points to the class tree

they kind of failed for bears on the 'mandatory' part

[wild kite]

we use apex in raid

[hollow onyx]

It looks like would have just fit just the same on the tier sets

[quaint pond]

you're missing the most important which is 1 point per level

they had to have something for hte spec tree that didn't add any more combinations so that's what apex is supposed to be

they'll try to fix it for 12.1 or w/e they address it maybe they'll be successful

[wild kite]

hopefully they change the apex talent to interact around thrash as all builds utilise it to great effect

[quaint pond]

i think they'll just rework 1 & 4 and leave it maul-centered

[mortal perch]

having the apex so heavily around maul/raze is complete garbage

[quaint pond]

the mastery & maul dot kind of work fine

[hollow onyx]

That would be great

[quaint pond]

the echo is obv overtuned and the activation part of 1st point is pretty lame

[hollow onyx]

Make the first point add a bleed for swipe so it can be more useful lol

[quaint pond]

they'll just nuked lunation that'll force you to swipe

[hollow onyx]

So the other apex trees are better for the other classes? Ours not so?

[hazy mural]

they can do w.e they want as long as Bear is OP

[hollow onyx]

Agreed!

[quaint pond]

yeah almost all specs use full apex

they only failed partally on 2/40 specs

so 95%, which is orange log. success for blizz standards

[wild kite]

funny though, meta tank meta healer both us 0

[quaint pond]

haha yeah

[copper hornet]

M+ doesnt matter anyway

They hardly do any tuning for it really

[vapid forum]

Is the Lunar, Thrash, MF spam build still op?

[wild kite]

literally the last tuning we received was due to m+ ;p;

[quaint pond]

i wouldn't be surprised if they overcorrect and just completely kill off thrash build in 12.1 and make apex fully maul centric

[hazy mural]

tbh it depends if ppl are excited over their apex, even if it is strong enough to be used

[wild kite]

prot war also has some strong builds without using 4/4

[hazy mural]

at best it feels like a lil extention... wish it was stronger and more oppressive

apart from Bear's one ofc

[flint galleon]

Hello, should I use a BiS weapon 285 or a 298 crit haste weapon?

[wild kite]

298

[hazy mural]

u mean 295 vs 298?

does the 295 have an embellishment u wanna keep?

[flint galleon]

285, it is heroic

[wild kite]

a 295 isn't bis

use the 298 100% of the time

[hazy mural]

oooh, yh then dump it

thought u meant crafted wep xD

[wild kite]

weapon damage is the most important thing for dps, and the mainstat alone is worth dumping the 285, also most stats are rather close on guardian, with haste having a slight advantage

[hazy mural]

theres an argument to be said for embellished crafted 295 vs 298 tbh

[flint galleon]

Ok, thank you for the explanation

[hazy mural]

but for end game u wanna use cloak and wrist for emb anyways

[wild kite]

niche, but in most set upts 298 does out weigh it, in ST iirc it's actuallyy best to use crafted neck and bracers with the lens and bandolier

and aoe then you generally gain more from cloak bracer with the main stat embelishment

[hazy mural]

yh, I just assume most bears gear for M+ tbh

not the minigame

[wild kite]

bear is meta for raid still though 😄

the ST is still absolutely bonkers

[hazy mural]

yh but the meta is to ignore raid and play only M+!

[wild kite]

not if you want bis 😄

[hazy mural]

ehh, dont need

good enough trinkets from M+

[wild kite]

alnseers is unrivaled imo, i love my mythic gloomscale for some keys, does crazy damage and the shield is bellaaaaa

[edgy merlin]

Nice, depleted AA22 on last pack because of WN bug

[mortal perch]

RIP

[hazy mural]

[copper hornet]

God i hate weez nuts

[mortal perch]

Season is long you'll get it

[edgy merlin]

was gonna rehibernate patrol but WN was out so they got put into combat and 0,5s before my hibernate hits, that target gets a auto moonfire proc from thrashes on the main pack

and breaks the hibernate instantly

jesus

[mortal perch]

that's a rough one though

[hazy mural]

can someone else do a long cc on em?

[edgy merlin]

well yeah para or sleepwalk

but monk was busy healing and I didnt think I would get a double whammy

but have to do it next time for sure

[hazy mural]

healers dont have enough to do! make em work more!

[rustic kestrel]

Youve been humbled for using nopex

[edgy merlin]

The WN bug is probably one of the more frustrating bugs

can't even mark a target or they get pulled xD

but

can probably pull through walls also

if you want

but there are not really any good pulls like that in this season

[hazy mural]

just use the WN weakaura to know when u have 1 spawn

[edgy merlin]

well, DotC is just super hard to live in AA vexamus packs

EC can kite MF until LB + bark is up

DotC loses ravage mitigation when kiting

[rustic kestrel]

I know. I missed a 21 aa by 6s earlier, was nopex

[edgy merlin]

and cant get safely back to melee

Running away has always been a strength of EC

[trim plaza]

EC apex felt kinda nice in AA, sure it was 19 and not a 22 but it surprised me

[hazy mural]

so ur saying cowards play EC?

[edgy merlin]

yes

[hazy mural]

hybrid caster tank ftw

[rustic kestrel]

Nopex physically smaller so you know whos beta

[hazy mural]

its not about the size, its about how u use it 😉

[trim plaza]

Have u done any "bigger" keys with DotC recently bulok or gnome

[rustic kestrel]

I did two 21s today as dotc

I only play Nopex in AA and NPX

[trim plaza]

Do u have logs? Im interest

[rustic kestrel]

They are probably uploaded if you search my name on wcl

[trim plaza]

Will do

[rustic kestrel]

I dont actually know if i did or not

[trim plaza]

I check later

[edgy merlin]

I did a couple of 21s at some point, not sure if I have logs

like Pit and Maisara

[brazen tinsel]

i did pit 21 as dotc

was free

havent tried other keys with it tho

had a nice io injection this week, feels good

[trim plaza]

I just know nxp without ec healing is absolute miserable

[brazen tinsel]

i would not go into nxp as dotc ngl

[spice nebula]

They should make a 3rd hero tree where you get 100% dodge, and do 200k sustained DPS

[trim plaza]

Gz!

[brazen tinsel]

especially since i play with resto shammy

that spec does not do tank healing

[trim plaza]

I tested it 1x19, absolute unplayable

Might as well suck with it but EC was way better for that dungeon

Why i ask about DotC is because my brains are already so cooked pushing 1 week with nopex

[hazy mural]

resto shams

[rustic kestrel]

Its so dogshit to play

[brazen tinsel]

it rly is

[rustic kestrel]

So unbelievably boring

[hazy mural]

have u tried Nopex Raze?

[trim plaza]

Ye its that boring i started doing some 19's with my blood dk to get into action

[brazen tinsel]

i tried nopex raze but it feels pointless

raze just doesnt do anything

idk

[trim plaza]

Ye agree, u kinda want all the apex things if u like to raze

[narrow parrot]

Ya I am in a similar boat. I stopped playing bear for now, chilling with my brew . Noapex EC is v effective , but terribly boring

[rocky hare]

is it safe to macro Ironfur into Thrash, Moonfire, and Mangle if we're doing the no Apex build?

[olive compass]

only like 220+ io before i finally catch up to monk ...

[brazen tinsel]

you can and it will be fine for most situations but it's definitely not optimal

[covert stone]

287 ilvl in 4 days lol. It’s easier to get gear on rerolls now

10 crest for upgrade is sick.

[grand plinth]

I have resil 21 and one 22

all DOTC

They should all be logged if people want to go through them

[trim plaza]

Checked ur 21, u just prefer moonless over HR always?

[trim plaza]

Having seat 20 and pit 17 is once in a lifetime thing

[olive compass]

just what happens when you have main score showing kek

before that my seat was 12 btw

[rustic kestrel]

Been moving that point around

[covert stone]

Is it worth to tab target moonfire on big pulls? Or you just spam on your main target

[raven herald]

This EC Raid build has us going into chicken to convoke?

[noble ledge]

I've started to question, as a Minimalist, how important is the minimap in long run?
Like I figure I quite never look there for anything, so I've been thinking of playing without it to reduce visual noise

Do tell me if I am forgetting or missing something, bit silly thought but it makes sense from my perspective

[rustic kestrel]

A wild thing to get rid of

"Wheres my healer" as hes back drinking

[noble ledge]

I suppose that could be one

Because we have like markers down in Raid for glooms and stuff but I am not sure if they even show up in the minimap

[copper hornet]

i have mine hidden in raid

dungeons i have it on though

[noble ledge]

Tell me about it 📝 🐛

[copper hornet]

im autistic and dont know what you want expounded upon

[noble ledge]

Very understandable feeling!
I wanted to know the important upsides of having it on in M+ as you made the move to disable it in Raids,

[olive compass]

just bricked mc 20 on druid because we didnt have enough damage ?

i didnt know that was possible

[copper hornet]

lets you see where your party members are, and also it can be useful for navigating dungeons esp if youre unfamiliar with them

raid is just the one room

[olive compass]

minimap is very important

i could probably play without but i see no real upside to not have it considering there are so many addons that let you resize/reshape it already

[copper hornet]

the main reason was literally dawnbreaker last expansion

doing that dungeon with minimap disabled was a nightmare

especially since the main map was bugged and not showing your position nor the objectives

[noble ledge]

This makes plenty sense, Thank you so much for the insight
I feel like I keep track of my party members quite well but you could be in situation where the tiny nuance of maybe seeing where someone is going can be helpful

I would not disable it for Dawnbreaker in that case, that sounds very painful

[noble ledge]

It is visual noise thing mainly, I did it in different game and it helps greatly if you have issues with attention
But it just has to be at low to no cost thing

[versed gorge]

Just do what i do and be completely incapable of looking at anything in the corners of your screen 🙂

Then it doesnt matter if you have it showing lol

[noble ledge]

That's a solution in a way isn't it? pffff
Same result, different strategy if I may call it that

[versed gorge]

Haha

[copper hornet]

real, just get a larger monitor

[steel vault]

are embellishments on crafted (boots, bracer, belt, etc.) worth the ilvel loss? I can either craft them, OR I can get max level, so 285 vs 289. Any rule of thumb on about how many ilevels the embellishements are worth ?

[copper hornet]

27 is too small? 34.

you want embellishments

they are worth quite a lot of ilvl on the lower budget slots

[steel vault]

TY

[stoic marsh]

is that still acceptable

he said things like that

[noble ledge]

It probably depends on the context but I think nothing happens if nobody reports

[stoic marsh]

so toxic

[noble ledge]

That sounds like they did not get right item or something, from the image

[stoic marsh]

he said bad things about my mother

in a game

can i open ticket on him

[noble ledge]

Yes then you can report them, write in ticket about them doing that and that you find this disrespectful and usually it goes down

[brazen tinsel]

Right click, report player, inappropriate communication

[warm tundra]

or just ignore it and walk away

[stone trench]

hi guys ! sorry for bothering .. i just started playing guardian trying it out but i have noticed i been having trouble getting dmg out. so i checked on warcraftlog and compared it to a run similar to mine and noticed my trash dmg was like 30% off can anyone tell me why is that ? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/vxjtLb2qFPpCWR13/D1pfT2kGwa9FVbAn?fight=6%2C1&type=damage-done&source=2063%2CГосальтуха

[mild island]

no apex drood doesnt care about 4 set does it

[fallen robin]

Not if you don't press Maul (it's still a DPS gain in ST). The difference in secondary stats is miniscule for your damage/survivability, likely sub ~.2%, so I wouldn't drop it unless you're fully capped on max level myth gear.

[astral token]

who do u put ur symbiot on in raid or m+ lol

[craggy ridge]

Aug in keys and other tank in raids

Or any dps made of paper in m+

[astral token]

tyty

[olive compass]

safe bet is to just put it on healer

[digital hollow]

On Crown of the Cosmos i take the third miniboss in the beginning. So I think it might be best to run DOTC mythic talents so i can also be a little tanky for the single target parts after all the little adds?

[uncut lynx]

im interested too! was looking at this logs and couldnt find a determining factor on why his thrash is so low

[fallow prism]

Is the Thrash EC Nopex build still good or did the thrash nerfs make it not worth it anymore?

For m+

[craggy ridge]

He had more uses of incarn, potions and better lunar beam uptime

[quaint pond]

he also has a 298 gaze and you've got basically a dead slot with dreadscale

[uncut lynx]

icic

[quaint pond]

• the shaman buff. you started out baseline behind him with the worse gear/buff and it was made even worse with the lack of potion/cd usage

[uncut lynx]

but just looking at this first pull, he peaks way more than the other druid. is it still gaze thats effecting this much?

didnt know gaze was so important

[quaint pond]

he also didn't prepull incarn

[ember parrot]

is there a list of buttons that we actually need on our bars?

[quaint pond]

it's not just gaze but also dreadscale being a dead slot. an actually dps trinket would've had less gap

[naive oar]

[edgy merlin]

hmm it's just a lot of rotational mistakes as well. Casting late lb and late sundering roar after being at 5 stacks for 10 seconds already

Casting multiple moonfires in a row in incarn, etc

[onyx sonnet]

Lmaooooooo

[naive oar]

I almost have 23 resil and rank 1 dps logs on every boss in the raid but I don’t know how to play bear guys

This discord is full of clowns

[edgy merlin]

you would be 24 resil if you knew

or even 25

[naive oar]

@red knoll insane comedian

[uncut lynx]

icic! thx im learning stuff for my own druid too~

[naive oar]

True shred should come tank I’ll tell vibezz to get him in

Great content lads 👍

[onyx sonnet]

You don’t cast mangle enough either I’ve been told repeatedly in keys

[naive oar]

Gg

[carmine sandal]

Did you just join to search your own name looking for someone to complain at for having opinions about a public figure?

[naive oar]

I was told there were some big memes in here so I came to find out what people were saying that’s all

[carmine sandal]

It's a public discord mate, it has 100k users, you can find someone that's said something positive and negative about every topic around here, then you found the class clown just to say something vaguely negative towards the community at large, kinda weird.

It'd be a discord full of clowns if people got policed for saying anything negative about anyone

[naive oar]

You’re reading too much into it

[carmine sandal]

Ofc

[naive oar]

Put the samurai sword down and sell the fedora

[carmine sandal]

It's fine to say negative things about anything, just not about you

[naive oar]

I just got told there was some interesting comments and came to see that’s all lol 😂

[carmine sandal]

You joined the server to shit talk it and now I'm a fedora hat, yep

Fucking clown

[naive oar]

?

You’re so emotional 😭

I just thought it was funny the guy talked shit 💩 and thought he could get away with it that’s all

[carmine sandal]

Fuming

Get away with it

You gonna rough him up mate?

This discord is full of clowns

[naive oar]

[onyx sonnet]

I mean, I’ve found it kinda funny how many people in here have been talking shit about the number one ranked Guardian Druid like he doesn’t know what he’s doing in here. So many bleeding hearts who hate the no apex build, don’t play it, bash it, and then give terrible advice about it

[naive oar]

You don’t know what you’re talking about

If I played dotc with apex I would’ve timed 25s already

I’m just limiting myself guys

I’m a big rock Lee enjoyer

https://tenor.com/view/rock-lee-weights-naruto-chunin-exams-flex-gif-26433140

[onyx sonnet]

Thanks for making the rest of us look good then appreciate you not making the gap toooo big

[carmine sandal]

Who are these many people

Like idk singling out something shred said that 95% of chatters here think is a dumbass

Just starts the conversation in bad faith

[onyx sonnet]

Basse and oxez to start with

[trim plaza]

wtf i now did wrong? i woke up and see this

[carmine sandal]

Oxez was talking shit about andy?

[rustic kestrel]

No, hes talking about mangle argument

[carmine sandal]

In the conversation with basse practically everybody that chimed in was not in agreement with him either

[carmine sandal]

Well he said "many people in here have been talking shit about the number one ranked Guardian Druid"

I cant just divine that what he really meant is people are misinformed about how to play

[trim plaza]

expect use mangle if u like was the whole conversation, but it was clearly bad one lol

cause my man has still not gotten over it clearly

[carmine sandal]

Just some randomly weird victimizing energy trying to find someone to get mad at

17 different messages positive about andy including in direct response to shred

But the discord is full of clowns

[naive oar]

Bro you shouldn’t take everything so serious in life

Learn to relax a little

[carmine sandal]

You think so?

I've only repeated what you said

I'm chilling mate

[naive oar]

Don’t quit the day job is all I’m saying

[carmine sandal]

So personal about it

[noble ledge]

Why did the chat turn full UK

[rustic kestrel]

[carmine sandal]

Better than fr*nch

[trim plaza]

xd

[rustic kestrel]

its already full to the brim of fuckin frenchies

[carmine sandal]

Are you briish @rustic kestrel

[olive compass]

i agree

(am french)

[rustic kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/kartal-gif-3596370159344905149

[carmine sandal]

Oh

Oh...

[true oyster]

How yall deal w pull going left after 3rd boss in skyreach. in 20 i feel like im just perma kiting w how fast stacks build up

[trim plaza]

Kiting myself too, rough pull

[rustic kestrel]

Typhoon, Incap Roar, and Ursols can get you like 2 resets

[devout depot]

hello

[rustic kestrel]

the rest pray your group does more than zug

[devout depot]

im looking into logs and everyone is using heart of the wild

and fluid form on high keys

i dont undertand how i'd be able to use cat abilities without dying cause im in cat instead of bear

[devout depot]

and for heartt of the wild, off healing??? or like am i suppose to be a cat and then use it

[rustic kestrel]

Cat form for prio damage/single target
Moonkin for Gathering spread pulls

[devout depot]

is there a macro for heart of the wild?

[rustic kestrel]

You can probably make a cast sequence, but ive heard they randomly break, best to just press the buttons

[devout depot]

so cat form then press heart then bear

im looking at this 23 here

[rustic kestrel]

yup

[devout depot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psq98mOdXEg

i dont see him going out of bear form

i dont understand since he has 2 m skill tracker

[rustic kestrel]

He does first time at 7:56

on boss

[devout depot]

idek how that is worth

[trim plaza]

Its good dmg for 1 pointer

[edgy merlin]

Well other options are 0 dmg

Or pretty low value anyways

[devout depot]

is forest walk useleess?

[edgy merlin]

Usually you have 2 points anyway in that

[devout depot]

they dont take it

lol

[rustic kestrel]

Its a few % of your damage in a key

if you dont value that you can always take something else

its very powerful on the handful of amp bosses this season

[devout depot]

yeah i see

[rustic kestrel]

will be your 2nd top damage on boss 2 in NPX

[devout depot]

fluid form is also stupid

[rustic kestrel]

Fluid form has a lot of hidden value from a bug

[devout depot]

what bug?

[rustic kestrel]

It lets you pop into bear form with a lot of rage

[devout depot]

how do i use that?

[wild bloom]

so

[rustic kestrel]

When you Mangle, you "charge" your next cast of Bear form with the rage it generated. So If I mangle, next time I manually cast bear form, I get 42 rage instead of 25

[wild bloom]

since this weeks nerf i hadnt touched gardian rly but i did a few keys today and my dps sucks especially in ST

is that normal

[rustic kestrel]

So you can start with an ironfur before even touching the pack

[wild bloom]

why do top logs with guardian end up with 100 score dps in keys with not touching either maul or mangle

[rustic kestrel]

because current spec design is bad

[wild bloom]

no but

i do the same and my dps is shit

on ST i will have like 30/35k dps

and they still end up with like 130k dps overall

i dont get it

i tried using mangle not mangle, maul not maul, just spam moonfire trash i just cant get a decent ST dps and it tanks the overall

[rustic kestrel]

you'd have to parse through a lot of things in logs. Gear, is your caster per minute the same? are their pulls bigger?

[wild bloom]

ofc their pull is bigger probably, more adds with boss probably too but it wouldnt explain such a gap it seems

i still pull decently big,

[olive hare]

Dont forget that the performance of your groupmates also affects your parse A LOT. If they have three blasters and you have three average players youre hopeless go get a gg parse.

[fallen robin]

Everyone is better in their keys, so pulls are more efficient. More efficient pulls means more efficient time in CDs.

This includes people being more efficient at prio and/or pad damage. So they spend less time single-targeting stuff down and bringing down their overalls.

[wild bloom]

i mean yeah but like im not doing 22s

how much are those top dogs killing 22 bosses fasters than we killing 18s bosses

i guess its pretty similar

since they barely time their 22s and we barely time our 18s

[burnt sandal]

30k dps ST feels like you are doing something odd

Not optimizing your thrash and leaving it off cooldown or maybe poor lunar beam uptime

[icy drum]

returning Guardian druid here, been dabbling a bit in raids and wanted to jump back into M+, I hear the new hotness is the No Apex Build, do you recommend this in the M+8-12 key range (this is where I sit currently).

[wild bloom]

how can i have poor lunar beam uptime rotation is basically spamming both trash and moonfire

but i hear you maybe im doing something wrong

[burnt sandal]

Once again without a log we can’t tell you. Unless your gear is really behind im just saying 30k seems very low

By having bad uptime I would mean you are reducing the cooldown with thrash and moonfire but not casting it when it comes up

Like sitting on it for awhile until you notice or something. I’m just guessing here obviously

Other people hit sundering roar (if you have it) when thrash is already up and stuff like that adds up

[burnt sandal]

You can play no apex at any key level. It’s significantly “easier” to play than alternatives and is likely a great place to start for a returning player

You might have to relearn how our apex works if they fix it. But they also might fix it in a way we all have to relearn it anyway 🤣

[wild bloom]

wdym when its already up

it cant go above 5 without it enabled

[burnt sandal]

I mean you hit SR when your thrash is on cooldown

So you thrash then SR and you get a free thrash

[icy drum]

@burnt sandal ty my druid

[burnt sandal]

If you hit it when thrash is coming off cooldown or already up you are wasting it in a sense

[wild bloom]

ah ok

i see

[burnt sandal]

Like all of these things are small optimizations but they add up

Casting LB right before moving a boss or if he’s gonna move

[mossy sundial]

I have hit 20 resil

[burnt sandal]

Shit like that

[mossy sundial]

Time to hit 21 resil

[fallen robin]

Sure. Can play both builds wherever so it's a personal preference thing.

[burnt sandal]

I know you were talking about HOTW awhile back. It’s usable as EC in all bosses basically. Safer when paired with bark skin

But I really can’t think of a boss I can’t use it on. Sometimes if I chain a bunch of shit into a boss or like 1st boss seat I’ll wait until the other things die because shifting cat even with bark skin up is a little sketchy on high pull counts

But otherwise just make sure you don’t eat a tankbuster in cat and you will be Gucci

And then if you wanna have some good uptime during trash you can use it on a prior target or once again near the end of pulls when you don’t have a million things up to hit you

[icy drum]

is the no apex build only good for M+/delves?

[burnt sandal]

I wouldn’t run it in raid personally. Gear has scaled enough that it won’t matter in heroic and shit but it’s way less damage then playing dotc apex in raid.

[wild bloom]

okay

this quick talk helped me

i was underestimating every point you made

thanks

[glacial hinge]

swaping to bear from blood for Beloren, i see people playing moon bear now, what does that look like during the 40seconds to blast?

[burnt sandal]

Collectively all of the stuff matters. And it’s something I’m constantly trying to improve on myself

[wild bloom]

it makes bear a bit less boring to play to have to think about all of this

[burnt sandal]

Like LB uptime even tho I’m pretty good I know sometimes I just get caught in the motion on a key or im focused on other shit

[wild bloom]

i was really yawning

yeah not just uptime but optimizing movement so it stays inside

makes it a bit more fun to play

i was really sketchy with that

is it why people dont press mangle or maul anymore ? so u can get more LB uptime?

[burnt sandal]

Ya I mean the mastery part of LB sticks to you. But the damage part is based off the mob

[stiff phoenix]

DoTC truthers, do you have one build or change per key (people doing like 15-16 range)

[burnt sandal]

Yes if you aren’t gonna spec into SOTF or don’t need quick rage the moonfire is going to reduce your LB cooldown

In pure single target even playing nopex with no maul talents if I have ample rage I’ll send a maul especially if my set bonus is procced*

[wild bloom]

i checked thoroughly and didnt see a single nopex key where dude cast maul

but maybe theyre wrong

[burnt sandal]

It’s probly better damage to just spam moonfire. Or they don’t wanna think about it

I wouldn’t say they are wrong

[wild bloom]

i go to bed but thanks for the advice

[daring mortar]

I actually have this same problem. I’m just spinning 12s for vault but on a pure st boss I’m doing similar dps and idk what do to because I’m maxing thrash and I have all this downtime like do I spam beam if im not supposed to press maul or mangle?

[burnt sandal]

When you say spam beam if you mean moonfire yes

[uneven flame]

finally got my omission of light

one day before i leave for my vacation xdd

[past olive]

Question, in raid I am takin what feels like a lot of damage... Like a lot

Can anyone help analyze what I can do better? Not really sure where to look

Like my damage taken seems about the same as other bears on similar kill times, even with ironfur up more often from warcraftlogs buff uptime.

I have noticed when looking at a few logs though that there seems to be more mastery healing being done by the other bears?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jJBW3KDrpmkA4gF8?fight=12&type=damage-taken

[forest flume]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jJBW3KDrpmkA4gF8?fight=12&type=damage-taken&ability=1&source=1&sourcebuffs=-192081

seems like you take a lot of melee hits without Ironfur up, that should be your top priority when actively tanking

a lot of those you had barkskin up but still, that's a lot of mitigation you're not using, you took 7 million more than your co-tank from melees

[past olive]

okay so then a fight like valegor and ezzorak I should have practically 100% uptime on ironfur?

[forest flume]

I wouldn't look at uptime %, the better metric is how many melee hits taken without ironfur up

i guess on a council fight like this uptime should be close to 100% :p

[lethal knoll]

guys is there a macro to heart of the wild only in cat form?

like a modifier such as [stance:2] or smth

i want to macro rake + heart

but if im on the gcd i heart in human form by mistake

[tight compass]

/castsequence rake, heart of the wild, mangle

[twilit hollow]

Hello friends, where do you prefer to obtain high key routes (19+)?

[stiff phoenix]

@grand plinth sorry for ping tell me to bugger off if you like but only DotC truther I know.

Are you using one main build or is there big difference between dungeons?

[tall basin]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-mn-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict

and then adapt some pulls. maybe split or something else

[tight compass]

Tactyks recently posted routes for the 1% title with a video explaining pulls etc, look him up on youtube

[olive compass]

pov: your healer lets you die on first boss of MC 20 somehow

[twilit hollow]

thanks to both

[stiff phoenix]

Isn’t he pretty good streamer

[grand plinth]

Im using one main build

[tall basin]

you can die as tank in mc first boss?

[olive compass]

until the bears die ye

[stiff phoenix]

Thank you king, gonna test it soon

[olive compass]

disease + bleed + crunch armor means you take big damage

[tall basin]

ye but you alwayse have deff up for this

[olive compass]

i ran out

i literally

[tall basin]

also you had an aug

[olive compass]

was not getting healed

at all

[stiff phoenix]

Twitch chat is asking if you’re 260ilvl

[olive compass]

i cycled through incarn

bark

2x SI

health pot

[tall basin]

say to aug he should dispel bleed at 2-4-6-8

[olive compass]

healthstone

and i still died

i hate bear, i feel like im made of paper unless im in huge pulls idk, my gear is garbage but still

[rustic viper]

karma for not playing brew

[olive compass]

im pressing FR on cd to try and live because this guy just isnt keeping me alive otherwise

[rustic viper]

[tall basin]

most aug's didn't dispel bleeds until you tell them. for example. AA first pull aug dispell at 5 stacks.
second boss, aug should dispell 2-4-6-8. this makse your life soooo much easier

[stiff phoenix]

Good Aug should learn when to

Or at least comm

Especiallly 20

[tall basin]

i play atm 20's and most aug's here boosted

[stiff phoenix]

That’s every io unfortunately

[olive compass]

all augs are boosted

21s/22s are the same dw

[stiff phoenix]

I feel bad for good augs

Get a bad wrap

Fotm is normally like this to an extent but Aug feels worse

[tall basin]

the biggstest problem with aug is. you only can see how much dmg they do in logs.
so you see in details for example:
uhdk 200k dps, dh 200k dps, bear 100k dps. and aug 60k dps.
"ah ye it's aug dmg" if you check logs. aug should have ~5-10% more dmg then the best dps in your group. BUT most aug's do still tank dmg in logs.
and this is bullshit... we should stop boosting bad aug's!
or details/wow dmg should show the real aug dmg....

[carmine sandal]

But what do you think this actually looks like?
If in-game meter showed aug numbers properly, would you just deliberately quit/brick a key if you saw a bad aug?

Cuz like... if you're timing the key with that aug, that's that
If you're playing multiple keys with someone, presumably in a set group or at least are friends with them, and you aren't logging to help figure stuff out, you don't care about it all that much now

[tall basin]

for example.
if you have a let's say 19 resi key.
tank makse 1 fault = kick
healer makse 1 fault = kick
one of the dd's did 0 dmg = kick
and aug? can still stay

[carmine sandal]

But why arent you logging then

Like... if it's a multiple-attempts situation, log it?!

If it isn't, you either time it with that group or you don't

If you did, great, who cares about the aug, there'll always be 1 worst player in the group, and 1 best

[tall basin]

logging every try is really exhausting. you don't need to do this for other dd's

[carmine sandal]

EXHAUSTING

[river glen]

what.

[tall basin]

i call this boosting but np

[carmine sandal]

You type /combatlog and click your mouse button 4 times total

To start logging

[carmine sandal]

You also call logging exhausting

Idk how much stock to put in what you call things

[rustic viper]

cant u have it auto log with rio addon

[tall basin]

hey np if you play aug main and i hurt your feelings. all good^^

[rustic viper]

[carmine sandal]

Maybe you should give aug a try

It is relaxing and not exhausting at all

[stiff phoenix]

what's reasoning behind no raze, is it just that you normally want to hold rage for ravage?

[tall basin]

aye and i think you have the same inv rate like tank^^

[rustic viper]

I tried aug this one time

didnt understand a thing 🗣️

I spent too much time smoothening out my brain nicely

[carmine sandal]

Back to this, if the aug was a dev evoker instead, and you're going through your key and the dev is 50k dps behind the other 2, do you stop everything and /quit because of the damage meter regardless of whether the key is on pace or not?

Just philosophically anti "boosting" as you call it, and if you're seeing someone get UNFAIR M+ SCORE you just have to act against it

[void magnet]

put all diddy augs on ignore and gg

never bad aug again

[tall basin]

nana not mid key.
let's say you fail mid key and the key is resi. did you give him a chance again or looking for better dps?

[trim plaza]

Tbh pala just dispeling disease away should be more than enough, those bears should not ever be a problem for guardian in the first place

[carmine sandal]

I would look at a log

Cuz aug brings a lot more than damage performance

Over a different dps spec

[spare sail]

You can just live log

And see their dmg

[carmine sandal]

I'd like to see how zephyr was used, rescues, defensives, lots of things

[spare sail]

[carmine sandal]

Damage meter showing aug damage is irrelevant

[spare sail]

If they cant keep up with their dmg they prob not pressing the other stuff

[carmine sandal]

Kicking people after 1 attempt on a resilient key cuz someone made a mistake feels very counterproductive

[spare sail]

^

[carmine sandal]

You're a lot more likely to get someone that won't make mistakes if you keep someone who made one and learned from it

[hazy mural]

that makes too much sense

denied

[rustic viper]

this reminds me of this one nexus run I did

[ashen sandal]

fail = kick

link curved

[rustic viper]

where my tank pulled left side and walked into the line and died while stunned

then did the same on the second try

[daring nymph]

i wish people logged more

[rustic viper]

[daring nymph]

its such a great tool

[hazy mural]

if im doing my own key, ur not getting in without ur log checked now xD

[tall basin]

ye i got your point.
let's finish this:
just check logs + help people = gucci 🙂

[hazy mural]

the amount of ppl with grey logs in M+ is a ctually amazing

[carmine sandal]

Sometimes you pug some people in these keys that the only explanation for the shit they pull in whatever key level you're doing is that they must have left their younger brother play for a little bit just now

[daring nymph]

its funny tbh

[void magnet]

grey logs where

[rustic viper]

lmao

[hazy mural]

makes me think most actually buy boost or something

[daring nymph]

i hope next season

is like

hard af

[rustic viper]

it was only a 12 but still

[daring nymph]

give me packs after packs of casters

[lucid arrow]

many do

[daring nymph]

that start to insta cast aftr interupt

[hazy mural]

[rustic viper]

feels like a lot of ppl just jump into 10+ without ever doing any lower this season

[daring nymph]

what the people YEARN FOR

[tall basin]

but if have another question:
maybe it's me or what is wrong atm with ret?
in some pulls they go full send prio dmg and get aggro from 1 mob. even if we fight this pack for 30-45sec. it feels like they taunt or something like that XD

[hazy mural]

thats fine and all... but ppl jump into 18s and 19s without knowing basic shit now

[rustic viper]

😭

[hazy mural]

idk... I refuse to believe like 4/5 ppl are cash boosted tho... would kill me

[rustic viper]

I should start jumping into 18's then damn

[lucid arrow]

tbh the system needs to start incentivizing practice keys

[hazy mural]

I bet u, u will be fine in 18s compared to em if u have struggled enough

[lucid arrow]

instead of gogo more number higher number

[hazy mural]

all the number is there for is u need more dps and smarter healing/ defensives

[rustic viper]

imagine struggling, ill just go as dps

[hazy mural]

moment the key start u kinda forget what number ur doing it on, just wanna do the dungeon right

[rustic viper]

zero pressure

[hazy mural]

then ppl get hit by the frog swirlies and try to b lame the basic bitch pull xD

[rustic viper]

my brain is so weird, going into a 15 as tank? im stressed tf out, going into 20 as dps, i've never felt more relaxed

[hazy mural]

I hate dpsing

I get so toxic and MUST be number 1 dps xD

[rustic viper]

real

[lucid arrow]

tbh on guardian im extremely chill no matter the key

[hazy mural]

if ur not 1st, ur last

[lucid arrow]

need to start playing with my toes to die

[rustic viper]

I manage to suck even on guardian

[lucid arrow]

reroll prot pally for anxiety exposure therapy

then come back and you'll be zen

[hazy mural]

when u realise ur not invincible is the real suck moment

forgot to kick the tank buster from ther lich in pit and it one shot me

went "oh"

[lucid arrow]

what key

[hazy mural]

19

was like 1.1m hit

[rustic viper]

idk how much it tells but went into a 13 skyreach solo (wanted to drop it anyway) just to see if I can live the first pack, kept dying before I even gather it, feels like that should be more than possible without healer

[lucid arrow]

that shit oneshot me on 16s on my ppaly but i barely notice it when it does go off on guardian

tho i haven't done 19 pos

[hazy mural]

after that that buster is my kick no matter what

I didnt have a lot of sweaters on when it went off

think I only had incan hp up

[olive compass]

went again, healer actually started using his buttons on me and didnt completely ignore me and it was free

[lucid arrow]

ye you should be able to without dying

do need to pop some stuff tho

[hazy mural]

tried to invite a few palas, palas not very good atm unless u get one who uses their cds before shit happens xD

[rustic viper]

I've tried all sorts of things

[hazy mural]

most of em are reactively using their cds

[rustic viper]

hell once went with both si and bark up

[grand plinth]

Yeah at the high enough key level you're spending most of your rage on ironfur especially without GOE and Harnessed rage

[rustic viper]

still explode

[lucid arrow]

are you precasting incarn?

[rustic viper]

in one of the tries I think

[lucid arrow]

if you precast incarn and just bark, then FR while gathering it should be beyond fine

[hazy mural]

1st pull ha s nasty melee mobs made worse by mr blade

[lethal knoll]

hey are mythic plus parses from before and after nerf mixed together or no?

[rustic viper]

gon have to give it a go

[hazy mural]

u EU?

[rustic viper]

me? ya

[hazy mural]

can heal u a couple of keys whenever xD

[olive compass]

did keys on bear for like 6h and im like 4 keys away from resil 20, only like 100 io away from main now...

[hazy mural]

I autolog so can look at it later too