guardian

[steel vault]

For me, myth feather, heroic plume where highest. But, myth heart, feather, puzzle and heroic gaze, plum combos were all with .7 dps. SO, IMO, roll with what you got.

[hazy mural]

probably presses mangle and maul in ST at least

[lucid arrow]

yeah if you just box once suboptimally it'll drop its simmed dps

[fierce saddle]

Ive all thé trinket MM...xD that why m'y question, sim say me BOX/gaze. But really no fan Box. And il questionning for 2 passive how/gaze

[hazy mural]

personally, id go how and gaze

[lucid arrow]

if you dont like pressing box the next one is fine, not like that dps will make a difference unless you're trying to time a 22

[steel vault]

ya then swap feather for box to skip the cast time if you want.

[fierce saddle]

Ok, i will try that, on 18.

Another question, when u do big pull all time start with bark? Or try to press at last moment for more ultime? And then use big cd when fade?

[hazy mural]

use bark as much as u can, yes

[lucid arrow]

i usually incarn pre start and bark when i start gathering with pugs

[hazy mural]

makes start of pulls much safer

[daring berry]

Open with Bark is fine especially if you have Incarn available (which presumably you will for big pull.) Because Bark will be back up by the time Incarn ends

[lucid arrow]

if the healer panic heals me and gets aggro it's horrible

[steel vault]

everyone got favorite big pull opener, and could dpend on if you got a good heals to shield you middle of pull. I like OOMKIN HOTW for aggro, and NR for 30% shield going into pull, lunar bear on first pack, spaming thrash and moonfire till gather and lunar beam again. I like barkskin on pull into incan, cause barkskin will be up again by end of incan

[lucid arrow]

also ye boomkin hotw is great just started playing it

[wicked otter]

Hey tank guys, what build are you using now for your Mythic keys?

[steel vault]

read the pin? 🙂

[fierce saddle]

Thanks for all information guys i will try that tonight 😉

[sleek lintel]

first WRS gave me the Heart of Wind

[steel vault]

woot

[hazy mural]

most ppl use the no apex build, fewer go DOTC with apex and even fewer use apex EC

[lucid arrow]

boomkin hotw is the only way to avoid my devourer who just had 2 monster energies before the dung pressing his burst before i hit anything and dying

[sleek lintel]

I don't know how good the trinket is for bear, but I'm gonna clear out WRS's loot table.

[hazy mural]

very good

for an M+ trinket

[wicked otter]

tanks Yes, it's not up to date :/

[sleek lintel]

plus it works for multiple specs haha

[daring berry]

Both guardian spec WRS trinkets are great

[wicked otter]

👍

[steel vault]

Right? Usually with team, can say WAIT TILL I PULL, but, thos pug dev with energy drinks, oomkin HOTW helps 🙂

[daring berry]

The feral ones are ass

[hazy mural]

feather cd timer is annoying for sure tho

I lose like 2-3 casts of it in a dungeon most times

[sleek lintel]

I somehow missed a mob using the Lindormi Route and hit 99%, not sure what mob I missed.

[hazy mural]

trick is to not be dps lootspec for WS

[steel vault]

aye

[wicked otter]

Yes, it's not up to date :/

[vapid heart]

I have both and god it sucks to use, but i need something like heart or gaze to change one.

[hazy mural]

time to farm WS 😛

[daring berry]

Just an important thing to remind people of since in other dungeons you DO want to be in feral spec to avoid bad tank trinkets

[hazy mural]

SR is the opposite, wanna be feral for that one

[fathom pollen]

We back to dotc for raid?

[clear talon]

can someone explain to a noob why Puzzle Box is so strong and when you guys would use it? (before pull or during pull)

[hazy mural]

not too bad of a trinket is there but theres a tank trinket which isnt that useful

[strange blaze]

My guild is a very comfortable aotc guild but this season we actually messed around and got 20 people so we are stepping into mystic raid. This Tuesday we wiped on Chimaerus the whole raid time. That's cool progression people are learning but are the first floor 2 or 3 bosses inSpire be a better ramp of difficulty?

[lucid arrow]

with how dungeons work big dmg during big pulls is king and puzzle does that

[hazy mural]

I like how seat just has a bad trinket for all specs too xD

[lucid arrow]

so you use it as close as possible to when you're about to start blasting a big pull

[outer cave]

Here is my cook for redesigned apex talents whay do you think?

1 point = after you cast thrash you have a 30% chance to reset thrash. 5% haste
2 points = increase thrash reset chance by 20%
3 points = increase thrash reset chance by 20%
4 points = increase thrash reset chance by 20% and casting thrash within 5 seconds of it being reset casts moonfire on all enemies in 10 yard radius

[lucid arrow]

i love it

[steel vault]

12 posts up, same question 🙂 Sims high dps. Many ahve it cause they kitty too. I prepull most trinkets. Use it on cooldown, but, PB cast time can be PITA if you casting other stuff in big pack pull.

[lucid arrow]

i think point 4 should also bake frenzied regen and ironfur into one passive

[fathom pollen]

We did first 2 bosses in Voidspire, then Dreamrift, then back to Voidspire - that's at least what the killcount suggested at that point

[clear talon]

oops, sorry!

[hazy mural]

idk... I feel like this dosent focus enough on what matters... maybe double the thrash stuff?

[clear talon]

it is still a cast as it was in Dragonflight, right? can you dodge during the cast?

[steel vault]

all good, so many good trinks, its a common question now

[outer cave]

[daring berry]

You cannot dodge or move during the cast which is why it’s a pain to use in combat and annoys many people

[lucid arrow]

also am i wrong in my assumption bear is the tank that cares least about getting backshot

since only thing you can't do is dodge

[steel vault]

my guilds not in myth yet, close, same "hard to get same 20 every night". Stats say first 2 VS easier than Chim, BUT, Chim has the sexy trinket to motivate folks, isn't MUCH harder, and is just one lock in case your folks sometimes pug VS myth.

[fathom pollen]

Still good practice to strafe but yeah, I think usually pretty safe to get hit in the back

[lucid arrow]

yeah that's what i figured

backshot on prot pala = instant death

[hazy mural]

biggest problem with it is u wanna use it before gathering because if u use it whilst gathering, ur fucked... if u use it after gathering, then might be sitting on cds too long too

[vernal fog]

A+ for effort but id rather see something outside of thrash especially resets. I dont think we need more imo

[daring berry]

Bear got that fat ass that just jiggles when enemies smack it

[clear talon]

thought so.. planned on avoiding PB, but I i am still rocking champ trinkets and got it on Myth track in vault lol

[lucid arrow]

new passive

[vernal fog]

My butt dont jiggle

[lucid arrow]

[Fat Ass]
You can dodge attacks from behind

[vernal fog]

Lol

[daring berry]

The clap from my ass cheeks when enemies hit me from behind should generate threat tbh

[steel vault]

its still really good for kitty if you do kitty

[outer cave]

Problem is that thrash is one of the only things dotc and ec have in common?

[lucid arrow]

and dmg

like tail swipe mechanic

[daring berry]

Blizzard please make it happen

[vernal fog]

Make swipe into something 😏

[clear talon]

good to know, ty!

[lucid arrow]

bake it into thrash

after casting thrash you also cast swipe

[daring berry]

That’s just a worse version of Flashing Claws

[fathom pollen]

Answering my own question, logs from today have top parsers playing EC just like yesterday

[lucid arrow]

you're right just remove it entirely and put its dmg into thrash

do the same with maul

and mangle

[daring berry]

Now we’re talking

[lucid arrow]

also thrash is kinda not thematic with EC

so they should remove it

and bake its dmg and aoe into moonfire

[daring berry]

Since it does arcane damage for EC they should give it a purple visual and make it play laser shooting sounds instead

[fathom pollen]

Make it "lunar thrash" and call it a day

50/50 arcane + phys dmg :D

[lucid arrow]

and all it does is cast moonfire

in aoe

bear auto attacks should also just be moonfires

[daring berry]

Get this guy a job at Blizzard

[lucid arrow]

ironfur isn't needed either moonfire should just reduce dmg equivalent to ironfur

[outer cave]

Hows this redesigned apex talent what do you think?

1 point = after you cast swipe apply a bleed (damage is the same as thrash bleed) to all enemies in 10 yards that causes them to do 8% less damage to you. 5% haste
2 points = increase max bleed stacks from 1 to 3
3 points = increase max bleed stacks from 3 to 5
4 points = double swipe bleed damage and reduce its duration by 30%.

[quaint pond]

early TWW they had an idea for void versions of the arcane spells

like lunar beam being darkness and doing shadow damage

[azure ibex]

shadow bear of doom and destruction

[rustic kestrel]

ew

drudic magic turned void goes nightmarey

not darky

I assume thats how they came up with waking nightmare and red moon

[quaint pond]

fake best bear was twilight dev and that was void

it was prolly some kind of EC hero talent idea that they scrapped early

had darkness version for moonfire too

[rustic kestrel]

scrap elunes good boy hero spec, nightmare time

[vernal fog]

Im digging it. Funny I mentioned the other day about causing it to bleed and have DR. I think swipe would need a cooldown of maybe 30s. To keep it from being op

[rustic kestrel]

if only we had an ability already that caused a bleed with a dr

good idea

[vernal fog]

I think they can do a lot with swipe

[rustic kestrel]

I think so too

[sleek lintel]

Only DB Blood got a special spell effect

[rustic kestrel]

but theres already two abilities that cause a bleed and give a dr

[sleek lintel]

Arcane Thrash should be visible though

[rustic kestrel]

i dont think a 3rd one is the answer

[kind seal]

heck it, add a 4th too

just let er rip..... get it

[rustic kestrel]

but as always when swipe comes up.. I think it should be more... brutal

really slash through enemies

[forest flume]

yes we need Lunar Devastation

[kind seal]

honestly, i wouldn't be upset if the apex made it worth using

[hazy mural]

[fervent sequoia]

I am a monkey who is doing dungeons on my gatherer alt because bear seems fun. I was wondering though what the optimal rotation is with EC and the latest bear changes? Im out here just spamming thrash. moonfire, and ironfur in m+ and it feels pretty clean.

[kind seal]

thats it, welcome aboard

[forest flume]

I wonder how that would work though. Putting it on an ability you can spam would be quite OP. Maybe like on a spender? Have it proc, and when you use it, it does damage and puts a bleed/dr debuff on enemies it hit. Sounds nice imo

[rustic kestrel]

oh I suppose you could put it on a charge system

say like, 3 charges

that way its not spammable and feels better to use

[forest flume]

too soon

[kind seal]

you're right though, they leave it on a spamable ability and we will cook a 1 button rotation

[forest flume]

||i was describing ravage||

which already exists, and is part of the most fun build bear had in almost a decade

[rustic kestrel]

oh I see you responded to an earlier message

we were on swipe now

[forest flume]

i see

[copper hornet]

Keep up.

[kind seal]

swipe spam time

some poor person is going to join the discord, see us talking about swipe spamming and.... just leave

[forest flume]

btw i tried the swipe build instead of rake, do you want to see my damage breakdown

[copper hornet]

not really

[forest flume]

got it

[copper hornet]

Feral makes me sad

[forest flume]

good news, it's now more fun than bear's new and shiny 2 button rotation

[lucid arrow]

so

question

sundering roar on cd or do i have to wait until i can actually stack more than 5

[rustic kestrel]

to get best use out of it, you want to use it after you have 5 stacks, and probably within a lunar beam window

[lucid arrow]

thanks assmangler

[rustic kestrel]

unless you need it for aggro/gather

then you can thrash-roar-thrash for some insane aggro on gather

I'm here to teach and mangle asses. and Im all out of asses

[strange blaze]

Thanks!

[strange blaze]

Yeah its a case of more responsibility than some people are used too. Like our other tank was running around in the intermission trying to gather adds and it ended up causing some really crappy line placements where the down group had to run all the way over to the far side of the platform. The answer to that is you just have to trust DPS to do their job kick the far out casters and everyone group on the tank once everything is under control.

[forest flume]

that's weird, the fotm'ers will come here and be like "what's mangle?"

[violet holly]

but the video said no mangle

[forest flume]

we live in sad times

imagine if the ppal meta build was "No avenger shield"

[violet holly]

thats just because you are against the new meta build for sure

[pallid marlin]

ignoring half your abilites is kinda dumb tho

[rustic kestrel]

New Prot warrior build, no shield slam, you hit thunderclap, and then throw weapon 4 times. repeat

[timid solstice]

[unique leaf]

how good is this trinket?
why not registered in archon.gg?

[pallid marlin]

its kinda a little worse feather

[forest flume]

people coming here asking how to disable gore procs in the hud

[olive hare]

Decent on-use trinket for no apex bears, basically a better feather (always aligns with carn, can just macro the on-use to it)

[pallid marlin]

would you put it over feather? really?

[forest flume]

the real answer would be to sim it, but are sims working for non-apex?

like would it do the 2-button rotation

[gusty heath]

Yeah imagine coming to a class discord for help. Wild.

[violet holly]

oof

I think I saw that

[forest flume]

I don't think you understood what I was trying to say

[olive hare]

I dont think on-use is the go-to for noapex bears, but if I would go for one, it would be guidon yeah. Delaying carn to align with feather is meh.

[forest flume]

The fact that the braindead build doesn't press mangle, or at least that's what the "youtube videos" tell people to do, they don't want to see Gore proc because they don't want to press the button. Cmpletely ignoring one of your main builder (and its proc), is sad af

The "situation" is sad, not people wanting to do it

[olive hare]

Something was done, the apl still does hit maul in 1t patchwerk, but doesnt use it in multitarget anymore. But I couldnt find anything in the apl explaining why

[forest flume]

ah interesting, maybe catha did some wizard work on it then

[olive hare]

And thats not the only thing

With the cookiecutter no apex build. The apl doesnt mangle. Both in ST and AoE.

Seems like the 'youtuber' advice was legit

[forest flume]

Oh I know it was legit, I'm not disputing that lol

It's that it's viable that I'm sad about :p

ignoring core toolkit buttons, something somewhere broke

[ripe bear]

it's almost like putting all of your damage into just a few buttons instead of spreading it out to the whole rotation was a mistake somewhere right?

[rustic kestrel]

does that hold up over a long aoe sim?

as eventually with mangles you start gaining multiple extra incarn casts per key

[olive hare]

Idk I'm perfectly fine with it being viable. Should it be stronger than apex setup, nah. Blizz couldve figured that apex build would need some compensation. I liked TWW S3 in that regard, both the simple and the more complex playstyle were viable, diversity is a good thing.

[karmic night]

so what do we press now, swipe and moonfire ?

XD

[forest flume]

let's be real, would the fotm/youtube-cultists be spending rage optimally for it to matter

[forest flume]

Yeah I agree. Find it interesting that you did a complete 180 on the no-apex build from weeks ago lol

[ripe bear]

no one, as far as i know, has actually and properly worked that out.

however my feelycraft saying using mangle on ST and during incarn, with sotf and moonless night, is the right call.

[rustic kestrel]

to be fair, it was trash weeks ago

[forest flume]

damage-wise yes, but it still worked

never felt more happier when I stopped trying it for testing purposes

[ripe bear]

the realistica awnser is as long as you hit thrash on CD, you can kinda just hit whatever else you want to within reason. spam moon fire is fine, hit mangle on CD is fine, just avoid swipe, as it's pretty ass

[olive hare]

Just did a 10 minute one, still no mangles I think napkin math just didnt give enough credit to that extra lb uptime and how hard it affects your thrash throughput.

[karmic night]

alright

[ripe bear]

the non-apex build? it wasn't trash, it was capable of 20s since launch

[burnt sandal]

APL has no way to account for needing rage for ironfur tho right. Like situations where a buster is approaching and if you don’t mangle you don’t have rage

Its just assuming hey you won’t die this is optimal DPS

[rustic kestrel]

well the sim isnt doing it, im saying is mangling going to be worse if it were a 10minute+

[olive hare]

We are talking no apex, youll never be short on furs, even at bosses, were you usually dont need more than a single stack anyways

[rustic kestrel]

to account for extra incarns

[burnt sandal]

Even if you are playing nopex if you are braindead and bind ironfur and just spam it whenever you have rage the situation “could” occur

[rustic kestrel]

just because you could doesnt mean it wasnt shit. it was a survivability and damage loss

now it isnt

[ripe bear]

right ... so able to tank 20s .... is shit ... gotcha. i guess everything but the best build is shit to you

[rustic kestrel]

I can go tank 20s and take thrash off my bars

that doesnt mean it isnt shit

[edgy merlin]

In almost all keys the situation with mangle and mf is actually ''Do I need to get incarn back fast or do I have to hold it anyway'' which is a bit hard to know unless you are comfortable with the key level

[rustic kestrel]

bUt i could 100% do it

[edgy merlin]

If you need to hold incarn a bit anyway mf wins, if you need it for next pull mangling a bit is better

[ripe bear]

put your money where you dirty mouth is, give me a log with 0 thrash casts and a timed 20

[rustic kestrel]

you're so mad for no reason

it was shit objectively

[ripe bear]

i'm not mad at all

[forest flume]

I found it boring to play weeks ago, still find it boring. But now every time I do a key with the build I like, I'm reminded that instead of using my brain to watch procs and spend rage wisely, I could be watching the OG Reboot series on my 2nd monitor while doing the same content

[rustic kestrel]

less damage, more healing needed, more damage taken

[ripe bear]

no, it wasn't

[rustic kestrel]

Quite literal definition of objective

[ripe bear]

lol

https://tenor.com/view/huh-gif-1807502725802114204

[forest flume]

It was doing almost no damage there is no need to even question this

Now it does damage

[rustic kestrel]

Ive obviously touched a nerve. I didnt say you couldnt do it. But it was objectively worse

[copper hornet]

You're just lying

[rustic kestrel]

I hurt someones feelings and now I have a dirty mouth

unfort

[olive hare]

I mean that question is way beyond what simcraft can be used for. I know what youre up to, the question of wether getting extra incarns might justify doing less damage per pull. But thats impossible to answer, we'd need a ton of sample logs for that. But my feelcraft tells me it aint worth it. Tend to do better dps the less I mangle.

[ripe bear]

no ones feelings are hurt here, unles yours are. you are just like ... really showing your stupid atm

[rustic kestrel]

Okay

[rustic kestrel]

I know, youd have to make a couple custom apls and even then it doesnt match great to a key

its just a thought

[burnt sandal]

Assmangler seems like someone who really cares about other people’s opinions

I’m sure he won’t sleep at night

[rustic kestrel]

People having adverse reactions to data really gets me sad

ill cry all night

[ripe bear]

what data?

[burnt sandal]

Who will be left to mangle the asses when you are gone

Wisconsen you are putting us in a dire situation if you could just stop

[rustic kestrel]

you can just go look at logs before the patch

[forest flume]

Do you want us to manually sim the no-apex build from 2 weeks ago versus actual builds then?

[ripe bear]

still waiting on that thrashless log of a +20 you claimed you could do

[rustic kestrel]

You obviously are emotionally responding and I dont give enough of a fuck to discuss a previous patch build thats no longer relevant

[burnt sandal]

Go do a 20 and it will change the data

[ripe bear]

i never said it was the best, i said it wasn't shit. if it was shit it wouldn't be able to time a 20 thats all

[burnt sandal]

It doesn’t matter what facts are if I see you do a 20

[forest flume]

It was doing shit damage, it was able to time a 20 because tank damage didn't matter ni those keys lol

[rustic kestrel]

The thing is, you can do the absolute shittiest things and still time a 20, i dont think you realize that

[olive hare]

And a good thought, thats for sure. If we didnt outheal stuff for a bazillion hps even after those nerfs you could argue mangling is worth it from a mitigation pov. But since Blizz - just like 99% of those youtube-lads - didnt notice that EF is a healing monster and was just kept in check by ursoc shields, we're still fine with those 3-4 fur stacks and dont bother upping the count any further.

[rustic kestrel]

Would you rather me just describe it has considerably worse?

does that fix the argument?

is it just the word we take offense to

[ripe bear]

in damage, ya it was worse i never said otherwise, just that it wasn't shit. Then you got all emotionally damaged about that.

[rustic kestrel]

Here Ill rephrase

Before the patch, the apexless build had significantly worse damage, required more outside healing, and more selfhealing. Its damage profile was all pad with no priority damage, making it significantly worse than every other build.

[forest flume]

Nice, you put a nice smelling rose on the pile of shit that the build was before buffs!

(jk, but not fully false)

[azure ibex]

None of this would be a problem if we just embraced the chickenweave EC ironfurless birdbear of doom build

[ripe bear]

in respects to damage, ya it was worse. never said it wasn't. Just don't really understand why you got so bent about it lol

[rustic kestrel]

If you go read

You can see my responses were normal, and yours were.. emotionally charged

like we're projecting here a ton, but we can end this, its really nbd

no need to go on

[ripe bear]

your responses were normal and not emotional? like a claim of being able to time a 20 without thrash at all?

lol you are a silly billy boy

[noble ledge]

Now kiss

[azure ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/josie-the-cat-eaveel-good-morning-gang-gif-15463031231885306104

[rustic kestrel]

Ill smooch anything with legs

[ripe bear]

https://tenor.com/view/kith-cat-gif-9195188864691963403

[burnt sandal]

The cropped meme being poorly cropped really sets the vibe

[olive hare]

He just doesnt like misinformation being spread in this discord. Awoo didnt time those keys because of the thrash spam build, but despite of it. It just wasnt a good service to the group. But since he is a decent player and plays with similarly skilled other players, the key went alright. Doesnt make it a recommendable choice at all though. A 10% dmg and tankiness loss for player preference is borderline acceptable, but 40%? cmon, thats obviously not the way to go.

[rustic kestrel]

Not to open it back up, he also timed most of his 19s with apex, and didnt time any 20s with nopex until the patch

[azure ibex]

We should bring pwarr 1/4 apex discussions here

then i can use my cool picmix

[rustic kestrel]

that sounds exciting

[azure ibex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148897941883584512/1496228825682415767/picmix.com_13676758.gif

[olive hare]

I noticed yeah

[rustic kestrel]

I should go look up those discussions, i like warrior discord drama

[azure ibex]

Its mostly died off but usually its just Nim yelling at people for saying they use 1/4 apex

[old basin]

isn't the play 4/4 apex warrior after their buffs?

[azure ibex]

The play has always been 4/4 apex

[torn depot]

Always has been

[azure ibex]

Ever since they moved the DR to the 4th node instead of the 1st, the play was 4/4 apex

But people held on to the beta theorycraft build for some reason

Even though it works out to be ~15k less dps and a flat 8% less DR if you run 1/4

[quaint pond]

ppl tend to just look at something once and never re-check

[azure ibex]

mmhm

[quaint pond]

• lots of ppl look at vids which are always outdated

[azure ibex]

Or watch outdated videos from streamers and base their whole gameplay around that

JINX

[toxic field]

is hc umbral plume better than myth heart of wind for noapex brainded build?

[rustic kestrel]

at least the 3/4 apex questions finally died down

[olive hare]

Just sim it, the apl seems to work correctly with no apex builds (thank you to whoever made it happen)

[shut jasper]

catha fixed it over the weekend

it looks very cursed now though

[quaint pond]

it's worse for tanks since tanking is so lenient you can play really awfully and be just fine but you kind of want that as long as blizz is forcing every group to have at least one tank you don't want to contribute even more to tank shortage

[toxic field]

okay if the apl is fixed ima sim that ty

[azure ibex]

Tanking relies a lot more on gamesense and dungeon knowledge than dps does, so you can get away with a lot more

Good people can play bad builds but their skill and team allows them to still succeed

[outer cave]

"Tanking is lenient" is probably true for lower to mid difficulty content but anything beyond that I would say tanking isnt lentient

[quaint pond]

nah playing the tank class/spec is lenient all the way up to the very top

you find top logs doing all sorts of stupid dumb shit all the way back to legion

they still time their keys and push just fine

[harsh zenith]

a quick question is gaze bis for m+ atm ?

[lament dock]

Go ask "Hey, Yoda says this is a good talent tree, why are you guys saying different?" And then link the most dogshit random talent build you can find

They'll lose it

[quaint pond]

you don't need to know the details of your spec, if you're good at the non-spec parts of tanking you'll be better than vice versa

[outer cave]

Imo tanking has the most responsibility, needs to know the routes, interrupt, needs to maintain aggro, needs to manage their hp and defensives (much more than dps since theyre always taking damage), is often the first to get blamed, and has unique jobs (specifically in raid)

Can tank stand in bad swirl than one shots a dps? Sure.. so it guess it just depends on what the definition of "lenient" is

[odd cave]

just gathering mobs efficiently and making smart pulls is worth more than most talent choices

DPS can't really do that, all they can do is press their buttons properly

the most obvious way to tell a good tank from bad is how long it takes to group mobs

[mellow cedar]

i have simed character and if i do 5min 1 target called Crit / Versa, if i do 4min 1 target haste/crit if i do 3min 1 target Haste/versa and if i do 10 target 40sec Haste /Crit what should i craft with which stats?

[quaint pond]

well don't do 10t 40s, those sims are utterly useless

[olive hare]

Premade vs Pug also matters. With my guild buddies I know exactly how much I can make em chew without choking on it, esp in terms of how much my heal can handle, we've been in it since legion basically. But with pugs its always a huge gamble, but I have to agree to Gas on that one, thats tanking experience, not spec experience.

[quaint pond]

as for the other you can just guesstimate what your typical boss fights take at your level

[mellow cedar]

which sims should i trust for stats?

[quaint pond]

it really doesn't matter that much whether you have h/c or v/c on a single item

[mellow cedar]

want craft bracer & belt but idk which stats

[outer cave]

For example in skyreach 17 on the pack after boss 1 I had to get aggro, interrupt the casting fireball guys, stand out of swirl, make sure i dont get too many bleed stacks by ccing/kiting.. and the dps just need to "do damage" and maybe an interrupt (ranged can ignore swirls completely)

[spare sail]

@coarse blade

[azure ibex]

summon the yellow name

[quaint pond]

bracer & belt are low budget it's not gonna matter, just pick one. or if you play an offspec pick the one that's best for the offspec

[odd cave]

which dungeons are going to bonus roll

this affects the decision what to craft

[mellow cedar]

i have got shoulder/head seat, now i got all items on nxp and empty bonusroll got weapon already

full mythic tracked now, and simmed character but want know which is the best sim to do

[odd cave]

so you're looking for trinkets basically

[mellow cedar]

3min 1 target or 4m or 5m or dungeon slice

[odd cave]

but yeah sims don't really matter a lot secondary stats don't matter a lot especially on low budget items like bracer and cloak, they have like 45 of each stat

[quaint pond]

dslice is a better approximation if you're gonna do dungeon content so you can use that

[mellow cedar]

i want just know how i should sim my character to do my decision^^

[ripe bear]

you are gonna just have to make a judgement call at somepoint. realistically there are zero purely single target fights this tier, and dslice isn't exactly a great representation of things.

But if you want general advise Haste + anything is gonna be pretty good for the current state of bears no matter the spec. verse is safe if you only tank, mastery is great if you play cat, not sure what stat boomie or resto wants.

[mellow cedar]

i want only tank and i want do highkeys 20-21~ this direction

[quaint pond]

just slap on dslice and it's mostly fine

and you can waste less time worrying about minor stats and more time actually running keys which is where you get better

[mellow cedar]

Dungeon slice was Versa>Crit>Haste>Mastery

11.74>10.81>10.50>9.65

[ripe bear]

without siming for the specific dungeon route, or specific boss fight you are just going to have to use your best judgement, when in doubt just do haste/verse, but all the secondaries are valuable for their own reasons, there isn't going to be a clear cut this is best just a this is generally good

[quaint pond]

oh don't do that

stat weights aren't good

you sim the actual item you're gonna craft, don't use stat weights

there's no reason to go vers for tanking, mastery's generally better defensively for this tier of stats

[ripe bear]

is it? i thought verse was generally accepted as "better" even if it's only marginally. i do haste/mastery but i play cat in raids and can't be assed to get 2 sets of gear

[quaint pond]

nah, like earlier convo it's a lot of ppl just using old outdated info

vers used to be uncontested better defensively around df time

like it wasn't even a question. but then they buffed mastery by 40% and mastery took over

[ripe bear]

makes sense, i always wanted to like mastery more anyways, but i think verse is a borning stat that should just be removed so ... lol

[quaint pond]

last tier, there was a lot of damage that didn't scale with mastery, so even tho vers was slightly behind defensively, it was far ahead offensively so you took h/v

but now there isn't really much non-sclaing damage so mastery's just ahead

[forest flume]

in that key mastery was the top contributor to my healing, somehow

[ripe bear]

i didn't play in tww, outside of the first tier so no idea on that

[north ridge]

They fix the drop rate of shards yet in NA?

[uneven flame]

anyone want a heart of wind?

[swift quest]

hi!! talent raid?

[quaint pond]

right now you need ~3000 combined mastery + vers rating for vers to be better than mastery

which is impossible to achive at current tier

[halcyon jackal]

DoC is 230% of regrowth, with reving x2, is it 460% or 330% ?

[quaint pond]

but maybe later in the xpac that'll cross over

at worst case scenario, so EC + LB it does drop to ~1300 combine rating so it might be possible next tier, but that's only while LB is up

[carmine axle]

How good is vessel of tortured souls? I just tested it on the training dummies and had usually 4 to 5 stacks. So it seems pretty great

[quaint pond]

that's the stupid green orb one right

in practice it's shit since you miss so many orb, hence why it sims so poorly

[mellow cedar]

that mean mastery is now after haste Defensiv best stat or what?

[ripe bear]

iirc it's great as long as you can grab the orbs, but who really wants to do that?

[quaint pond]

if you can beat the sim's 40% grab rate i guess it might be not terrible, but i wouldn't expect it

[carmine axle]

Yes its the trinket where you have to grab the orbs. And with the half brain dead no apex talents it seems to be easy to grab them. But I didn't tried it in m+ so far

[hazy wolf]

We back to apex build since Tuesday? Went to check pins but forgot there aren’t really any here.

I’m basically just doing weekly 10’s to help friends get their vault so I guess for me not a big deal lol

[forest flume]

you can still play noapex

[gusty heath]

Yeah the no apex is still great.

[hazy wolf]

Sweet I was kinda having fun with it. I kinda liked the apex too tbh for having something to press in my next pull after incarn

And with no apex we still press mangle for rage right?

[gusty heath]

Not really no

[vague sage]

Here we go again

[gusty heath]

It’s essentialy thrash -moonfire x3 thrash and weave in iron fur. Moonfire gives cdr for lunar beam

[violet holly]

there's one pin with a lot of stuff though, including builds, btw

[daring nymph]

@silver patio

[ripe bear]

the real answer is, since you are doing 10 keys.

hit thrash on CD, nothing else really matters that much, wanna hit mangle? hit mangle, don't wanna hit mangle? just hit moonfire. It won't make a difference at that key level

[spare sail]

Nome is retired

[violet holly]

and you should press mangle for more rage -> incarn cdr if you want

[daring nymph]

not in my dreams

[outer cave]

Nomeratur is "NoMore-ator" 👍

[hazy wolf]

Dang. You’re right, that’s what I get for not reading the bolded words

[hazy wolf]

Yeah I figured as much

[rustic kestrel]

Many people have been putting out their ideas for a new apex, so I tried my hand at my own

Wild GuardianS

**Rank 1 - Embrace of the Wilds **

-Casting Mangle, Maul and thrash gives you a stack of Wild's Embrace.
-Upon reaching 70 stacks, they are consumed to grant the buff "Raging wildfire"
-Casting Berserk consumes Raging Wildfire to cast After the Wildfire at 200% effectiveness, as well as
healing all targets for 25% of the initial heal over 10s.

The goal here is to lean more into the aoe healing of After the wildfire, instead of Dream of Cenarius/Dream guide, giving less direct overlap with Prot Paladins direct off-healing via WoG. This also incentivizes hitting all signature Guardian abilities, preventing any future nonsense.

**Rank 2/3 - Will of the Wild Gods **

Your Maul takes on the properties of the 3 Bear Wild Gods and now Echoes twice at 10%/20% effectiveness each, one dealing Bleed and the other dealing Arcane damage.
Your Mastery is increased by 5%/10%

*This keeps the spirit of Vicious Brambles and the Echoes. Its also intended to fix the "arcane maul problem" by giving it some arcane scaling. The intent is also for the arcane echo to count for lunation cd. *

**Rank 4 - Incarnation of the Wilds **

Raging Wildfire now additionally allows Berserk to be castable without incurring its cooldown, and last 5 seconds.

Barkskincarn was an awesome tier set from Shadowlands, but I think linking it to barkskin isn't the way to go. This solves the "problem" of apex being linked to incarns cast, and makes it very flexible. The number of stacks is based on average cpm from logs to give the 5s incarn around .5 Procs per minute, essentially giving you 1 mini incarn between full incarn windows further, putting power outside of your full incarn.

[azure ibex]

3 bear wild gods

fake fan

[rustic kestrel]

on azeroth

ok

[ripe bear]

urosc, ursol ,and ... did i stoke out and forge there was a 3rd one?

[rustic kestrel]

Nalorakk

[marsh bluff]

iwantthisback

[rustic kestrel]

our new daddy

[gaunt grotto]

fotm reroller here 🙂 how many stacks of ironfur should i look at having usually

[azure ibex]

Hmmmm I guess Nalorakk would be a wild god wouldnt he

[ripe bear]

i mean nalorakk is very awesome, but he's an armani loa not a bear god for druids

[azure ibex]

Because technically Loa and Wild Gods fall under the same bucket

[ripe bear]

do they? i guess i always thought they were seperate

[rustic kestrel]

nope they are all wild gods

[azure ibex]

Yeah Loa are technically wild gods

[rustic kestrel]

just cultural interpretations

[azure ibex]

If trolls had met ursoc first he woulda been called a loa

I retract my call out, apologies Nalorakk

[rustic kestrel]

I thought you were talking about the lady we met in the shadowlands

[violet holly]

f ursoc

[rustic kestrel]

because she would techinically be a fourth

[azure ibex]

Droman Alithene or whatever

I dont count anything from shadowlands

[ripe bear]

i mean, if my understanding is correct. to the trolls anything sufficently powerful and "spirity" is a loa, which would mean a loa could be a wild god but not all loa are wild gods

[rustic kestrel]

the general idea is though, ATW is cooler than DG/DoC, barkskincarn back, echoes and more EC support into apex

I believe all loa are wild gods

but im not 100% on that answer

[azure ibex]

Not quite

Some trolls worshipped old god creatures as loa

[rustic kestrel]

i need to go read up on bwonsamdi/my boy voljin

[azure ibex]

Like g'huun, the "loa of blood"

[rustic kestrel]

very true

[azure ibex]

or kithix which was a c'thraxxi

[outer cave]

What the heck is berserk?

Personally I like my cook for redesigned apex talents more whay do you think?

1 point = after you cast thrash you have a 30% chance to reset thrash. 5% haste
2 points = increase thrash reset chance by 20%
3 points = increase thrash reset chance by 20%
4 points = increase thrash reset chance by 20% and casting thrash within 5 seconds of it being reset casts moonfire on all enemies in 10 yard radius

[ripe bear]

ya so not all loa are wild gods, but a wild god could be worshiped as a loa

[rustic kestrel]

yeah

thats a better answer

[azure ibex]

But most of the animal loas tend to also be wild gods

[rustic kestrel]

yes

[azure ibex]

Yeah, wilds gods = loa, but loa =/= wild god

[rustic kestrel]

@merry quest I would like your support

[azure ibex]

The wild gods we know could all be counted as loa if the trolls worshipped them

[rustic kestrel]

barkskincarn for life

[ripe bear]

i'm not sure nalorakk qualifies as a wild god though, is there an info on him outside of the midnight quests? like we know he is a loa, but do we know anything beyond that

[rustic kestrel]

hmmm

thats a good point

Im not sure his lore is necessarily fleshed out

[high path]

Loas are wild gods

[ripe bear]

don't get me wrong, i think he was a very cool loa. just not sure he's up there with ursoc and ursol for druids as a whole. lorewise

[high path]

It works

[rustic kestrel]

anyways putting nalorakk was more of a personal thing

because hes my dad

[high path]

It's just a different word for the same thing

[rustic kestrel]

you could easily take his name out of there and it works

[ripe bear]

though thats really a minor flavor point, the mechanics looked interesting

[azure ibex]

But not all loa are wild gods

[distant adder]

Guys, if I do not raid mythic and have 285 crafted impetus, I have also gaze and heart trinkets but hero. I know I will never farm myth wep and gaze, should I just voidforge my crafted wep first? Or farm myth wep from m+ to boost that with voidforge and yolo trinkets?

[azure ibex]

Unless you count g'huun or kith'ix as wild gods

[high path]

G'huun is artificial

So

Don't count

[azure ibex]

Still worshipped as a Loa

[ripe bear]

you can get a myth weapon from M10s and bonus rolls, thats what i would suggest. Though really it would be fine either way

[rain thunder]

Would someone be so nice as to help me with gearing? I might be too dumb to sim it correctly

[high path]

Doesn't really matter, in lore loa that occur naturally are wild gods

It's just a different appelation

[ripe bear]

is there a source on that? cause thats interesting

[rustic kestrel]

we are not the first to discuss this, there is a web of fucking confusion on reddit and the wiki

holy sheet this is a deep dive

[ripe bear]

ya

[azure ibex]

The ones that occur naturally sure, but there are still beings considered loa that arent necessarily wild gods

Yeah its a lot of speculation

If the trolls worshipped an elemental lord, does that make the elemental lord a loa?

Ragnaros, Loa of Fire?

[high path]

Any animal spirit is a wild gods

Technically

August celestial are wild gods

/ loa

[oblique moat]

yes

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Loa

apparently

[high path]

But ye

Loa just mean god for troll

[azure ibex]

"Wild God, Ancient Guardian, Loa, and August Celestial are interchangeable when referring to great spirits aligned with nature destined to Ardenweald."

[ripe bear]

they aren't loa because, afaik, no troll tribes worship them

[azure ibex]

Gross, shadowlands continuity

Also didn't Vol'jin become a "loa" in shadowlands?

[ripe bear]

i think so, but i try to block out most of shadowland

[tame otter]

What's Shadowlands?

[high path]

Loa of kings ye

[outer cave]

If n-zoth a god does that mean hes a lua or does thay require trolls to worship him first

[azure ibex]

So is vol'jin a wild god now

[rustic kestrel]

hes our wild GOAT

Nalorakk does talk about dreaming a lot

[high path]

Idt so

[rustic kestrel]

and sleeping

veyr emerald dreamy of him

[azure ibex]

This shit is dumb lol

[high path]

Wild gods are like spirits of nature

Tho

[rustic kestrel]

20 year old game with lore that they say "we'll flesh out lateR"

it gets a little murky

[high path]

Ig he replace the dino we murdered

[azure ibex]

But you said loa are wild gods

[high path]

So

Maybe ?

[violet holly]

he got to be a wild god because he merged with rezan, no?

[azure ibex]

Vol'jin better awaken as a big fuckin dino

[high path]

Natural loa

So like

Animal/tree w/e

Spirit

[azure ibex]

I mean, a troll is a natural creature

[violet holly]

ye

[azure ibex]

And he was given the power from rezan who was a natural loa

[outer cave]

Ill worship nzoth as my god if he gives OG twighlight dev, the random star falling on enemy, and the rng super haste buff

[high path]

Ye that's why I added the other sure bit

[azure ibex]

I'm counting vol'jin as a wild god now because its funnier than the alternative

Case closed, next discussion

[high path]

But blizzard kinda forgot about vol jin

[azure ibex]

Actually scratch that when can we get druid abilities inspired by a REAL loa

[high path]

And that storyline

[azure ibex]

dundun

[rustic kestrel]

bwonsamdi waS in ardenweald...

where wild gods go..

[high path]

And anduin being tortured by sylvanas

And sylvanas being omnicidal

[azure ibex]

Bwonsamdi like, showed up and dicked around in ardenweald a bunch

[ripe bear]

bwonsamdi was in the shadowlands, where the dead are, as the loa of the dead

[high path]

Well he is a loa

[azure ibex]

Also Bwonsamdi and Mueh'zala are weird exceptions

[high path]

Just like not nature spirit

More "I stole your shit so I'm in charge" spirit

I think that's his backstory

[rustic kestrel]

this has been a fun conversation

I wish blizzard writing was a little more concrete

[azure ibex]

Apparently Bwonsamdi was a normal dude at some point according to the wiki

[high path]

Stole the power from the og evil loa of the dead

[rustic kestrel]

yeah a priest

[high path]

Ye

Ge was the priest to the og evil loa of death

[azure ibex]

And mueh'zala elevated him to loa status, then people didnt like mueh'zala so they turned against him

[high path]

Og death dude was a bitch

So he stole his shit

[ripe bear]

i wish danuser never got ahold of the wow plot, i have a feeling he just started writing fanfic and messed it all up

[azure ibex]

GIMME DEM SOULS BWONSAMDII

[rustic kestrel]

Voljin is in a wildseed in ardenweald, wild god confirmed

[azure ibex]

Perfect

[high path]

Voljin got rezzed already

[rustic kestrel]

I like Pash's idea, bring him back as a big tusked devilsaur

[high path]

It's a horde quest

[rustic kestrel]

oh right

[high path]

Where you have him be loa of king

[azure ibex]

I'm pretty sure hes still in a wild seed

[high path]

Which btw

[rustic kestrel]

wait no

[azure ibex]

The loa of kings thing in the maw happens first

[high path]

Insanely shit domain for a god

[azure ibex]

Then he goes "i need a nap" and gets put in a pod

[high path]

Jfc

[rustic kestrel]

he was still in shadowlands, got the kings buff, and is being reformed in a seed to come back to azeroth

yeah

[high path]

Oh

Right ye

[rustic kestrel]

his boys lookin over him

[high path]

Understandable he prolly thought loa of kings when your people entire shit is

[rustic kestrel]

danuser is ass

[high path]

They don't want a king

Is stupid

So he went to bed

[ripe bear]

agreed

[rustic kestrel]

You can put more into the "of kings" part, like Noble sacrifice, leadership etc

[high path]

No I'm doing a funny

And also

[rustic kestrel]

well I didnt laugh

[high path]

King are assholes

[azure ibex]

The loa of war councils

[tulip lodge]

are you guys not using mangle at all in no apex?

[high path]

At this point it'd be called loa of the genociders

[rustic kestrel]

also, Catha, make me 2 sims that are 30 minutes long, one that uses mangle, and one that uses moonfire. I need to see the difference the rage makes for incarn/damage

[high path]

Okay no

Because a 30 minute sim is like

Lunacy

And not possible

[rustic kestrel]

I know

But its fun to ask you to sim stuff that I know you wont

[high path]

And i already said

You delay incarn by like

30s

[outer cave]

The YT guide vids i saw say dont press mangle in the meme build

[high path]

By not pressing mangle at all

Ye they're idiots

The real people

With brw8n

[violet holly]

if u offer a 29 min one he might do

[high path]

Just use it

And go

[rustic kestrel]

I did a key with no mangle, then didnt have incarn up where I normally would on a hard pull, and mangled the rest of the key

because it was ass

[noble ledge]

EC or DOTC for Lightblinded vanguard

[high path]

"I will rub my 2 brain cells together and alternate depending on what I need"

[finite fox]

u guys know need macro ironfur on trash and moonfire? or only in moonfire EC build for m+

[high path]

Unfortunately to make clickbait content on YouTube you have to give them your last remaining brain cells

It's in the contract

[high path]

Ec probably?

[violet holly]

but but the top players

[outer cave]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RAL7pcDv92PCya6r?fight=11&type=damage-done&source=6

This bear log (a random one from top dps for all season) doesnt show very many mangles but maybe it didnt log it correctly idk

[noble ledge]

[outer cave]

It is a +22 so higher than what im doing

[high path]

The real answer is that tanking is braindead enough that it doesn't matter

But

You should still try to optimize stuff

Because what else are you gonna do

[pearl lake]

you're the tank - you get to pick when you do the pulls that require incarn

[high path]

Uh no

[oblique moat]

[high path]

You pull according to your dps cds, if you do a massive pull and they have nothing

You die

[outer cave]

Ahh. Isn't there some logic to always spamming moonfire instead of mangle? Somethjng about lunar beam cdr if I recall

[high path]

And if you keep delaying their cd they do less damage so if the timer is tight you might get fucked

[high path]

You sacrifice incarn uptime for beam uptime

[vague sage]

What is optimal? Mangle on cd? Every time its brought up, people just get into a gigantic argument.

[high path]

If you were to only spam one for the other

[pearl lake]

sure, I'm being trite - the point is that you don't have to follow the exact same route and can adjust based on cooldown timings

[ripe bear]

thats what they tell themselves, but the reality is that throwing mangle in there on CD only costs like ... 9-12s of lunar beam CD.

the reality is that as long as you hit thrash on CD, and use your CDs properly not much else really matters rotationally

[pearl lake]

the key above is with a ret, outlaw, and arms - so they're not playing around the same cooldown timings as the standard comps

that probably means the dps gained from dropping mangle is worth more than cdr on incarn that they won't use anyway

[plush spear]

Are we still playing the same thrash build after nerfs? My damage last run felt a bit too low

[lavish plover]

at what ilvl do i get cheaper upgrades with myth dawncrests on my alt?

[ripe bear]

285

[high path]

It depends, basically in aoe spamming moonfire is going to be slightly more damage and you get more beam uptime so you're tankier, but you're cutting your rage income by about a third so less incarn
There's some complicated breakpoint you can probably go for where at certain target count you go for mangle other for moonfire

The simpler version is

• don't take HR, press on cd

The complicated one is something like:

• press on on cd on st, 2-3 targets
• press on cd during incarn cause it aoes
• press moonfire otherwise
  And you'll prolly be fine

But like

[outer cave]

Interesting where that breakpoint is since eventually with a short enough cd on lunar beam i would think it would be worth it? In the extreme example just to demonstrate the point: having 10 sec lunar beam cd is more valuable than an extra 30s on incarn.

I do agree with you on this (plus imo the diff between the 2 may be pretty small)

[high path]

It's overcomplicating something massively

That isn't worth caring about for most people

[brazen tinsel]

dotc build in 21 pit without any upgraded items

not too shabby

im going insane from the mf spam

[high path]

Press stuff on cd don't think about it

[high path]

Well it depends right, it's the same thing as always, cdr looks good in a vacuum but what matters is it being useful
So ye, if you delay incarn by 30sec but you get it when you need it, it doesn't matter, but if you don't it's bad
Similarly getting more uptime on beam is good, but that's only in models, cause in reality you're not always gonna get full value constantly. You're not gonna press beam if you need to have travel time after what you're pulling so your moonfire are wasted, same if the pack is gonna die and you can't chain, etc etc

It's significantly more nuanced and complicated than people making spectacle of themselves spamming two buttons make it seem in theory

But again in practice

tanking is braindead enough that it doesn't matter

[sour fox]

any good? got keepsake and myth emberwing feather, maybe replace keepsake?

[brazen tinsel]

dogshit

[sour fox]

sadge, wanted plume but didnt drop

[violet holly]

I was thinking about MN vs WN in a DotC build, seems like they do about the same damage, but I wanted to sim, is patchwerk 5 tar/5 min good or should I dslice for that?

[vague sage]

Appreciate it. Will try to stick to the complicated one. Might as well

[fathom pollen]

Doin half my cotank's dmg this week, love it

[uneven flame]

when myth chim weapon is a downgrade

[gusty heath]

andy just timed a 23 pit and now they are doing a 24 Magisters

[near nymph]

do i use sundering roar on cd or any holding for inca?

[topaz sparrow]

A badass apex would be the return of mini-carn, around the use of barkskin

And zero cooldown thrash again. 😡

[lime apex]

how many items can we upgrade via voidforge?

[ripe bear]

once per item

[uneven flame]

SAME BUILD IG?

[lime apex]

so we can upgrade every slot?

[oblique moat]

only weapons and trinkets

[lime apex]

Ah okay but at least for every spec right, like I am main ret but can upgrade shield for prot aswell?

[ripe bear]

everyslot that it can be used on

[lime apex]

Alright , Ty guys

[oblique moat]

not sure if offhand or shield can use it but i would assume so

[thorn oasis]

guys on which dungeon should i use my rolls on a fresh guardian twink?

[hazy mural]

windrunner is best as u get a wep, 2 good trinkets, 3 tier pieces and a good neck too

[gusty heath]

yeah the no apex one hes running

[thorn oasis]

not a bad call

[neat sapphire]

Just a question, with this new build if there a point to use maul / raze?

[unique patrol]

Yes, if thrash and mangle are on cooldown and you don't need ironfur. You will do a bit more dps

[neat sapphire]

Nvmm

[unique patrol]

Hehe

[rustic kestrel]

Maul will only be a dps increase if you take killing blow, and use it with tier set procs

[jovial turtle]

what new build?

[rustic kestrel]

nopex I would assume

[neat sapphire]

Indeed

[jovial turtle]

ah the new old build

[neat sapphire]

XD

[unique patrol]

What do you do instead of casting maul?

[violet holly]

press moonfire for lunar beam cdr

[torpid yoke]

As a Guardian druid on Spirit breaker in MC, hiw can I safely interrupt the ghosts?

[violet holly]

typhoon, skull bash, incap roar

[ripe bear]

skullbash, typhoon, and incap roar

[torpid yoke]

Wait, I can get in melee range of them?

[ripe bear]

the big circle is just a slow

iirc

[unique patrol]

You can just run up to them. Skull bash also interrupts immediately on cast, not on contact with the target

[torpid yoke]

Jesussss. I thought it was a silence this entire time

Wow. I've been hard trolling

[sweet pawn]

Is runebear Bis for fashion?

[ripe bear]

Bis for fashion is whatever form you enjoy staring at the butt of the most

[torpid yoke]

Nah, Steroid bear

[floral edge]

do we still play the no apex build?

[ripe bear]

you can still play the no apex build, you can also still play the apex build.

[wary hearth]

The apex 40% dot damge to maul/raze works all the time or just for the wild guardians 2 powerful razes?

[quaint pond]

all the time

[ashen sandal]

they should nuke this dumb build

[wary hearth]

The problem with the build is that I lose interest and stop paying attention to the game

[quaint pond]

thats' what 2nd monitor is for

[ripe bear]

then don't play it .......

[wary hearth]

I dont ha

[ripe bear]

so ... how then is it a problem for you?

[wary hearth]

When eveyone and their grandmother change to one specifc build, then it is not healthy to the game, but people play whatever they feel like imho...

[novel fern]

guys I think 5 bears can still do a 20 with this turbo boost thingy

ilvl is flying up so high exchanging myth crest discount between alts

[ripe bear]

by that logic the game is rarely healthy as there is nearly always one meta build per spec that everyone flocks too

[novel fern]

bear has 2 builds what a take it is especially on this class lol

[wary hearth]

Before the "broken" changes, DotC and EC were performing almost the same, and people had enough variation on what talent to take in either, now it is a bit set in stone what to play and it is not a engaging gameplay (at least imho).

And it was cool to see how eveyone was working out their strategies and specs to perform better, last week everyone was on the meme build, boring....

[novel fern]

dotc is doing considerably less damage?

[wary hearth]

And it got so bad that bear was almost default in MDI

[novel fern]

I was sure it was still pumping and especially great on ST and amp phase bosses

MDI has money at stake what else would you expect, there is always 1 class that's numerically the best

a big reason for the bear meta is also mistweaver damage and their healing scaling with AoE

[covert salmon]

okay so i fucked up crests this week. i have 285 crafted weapon and i got a myth track weapon (which I upgraded 5/6)
I don't have enough crests to make this weapon 6/6. should I wait next week to upgrade the weapon with new ascendant thingie or should I just upgrade my gaze myth 6/6?

when do we get another of those ascendant upgrades?

[novel fern]

I'm sure the ascendant thingy is uncapped

[ripe bear]

you can get as many as you want, just farm 5 of the shards and make another

[novel fern]

did you do the delve boss yet?

[covert salmon]

i did

there's no uncapped myth crests i'm afraid

[novel fern]

if you have 10 crests left over and the 285 ilvl achievement you can get a 289 weapon on an alt

[covert salmon]

can i get as many as i want?

[novel fern]

and then the 289 upgrade would cost only 10 crests for you

[covert salmon]

how can i get 289 weapon on alt?

[novel fern]

from bonus rolls

[covert salmon]

actually that's a good idea

[novel fern]

but you need to have 285 ilvl on at least one character to have those discounts

[covert salmon]

plan is like this, right?
I get bonus roll on alt
I farm nexus and hope for myth weapon on alt
I upgrade weapon to 289 on alt
last 6/6 upgrade on my main costs 10 crests ( which I have)
then I use ascendant on my main weapon?

[novel fern]

yeah that should work

[covert salmon]

how is this relevant?

[novel fern]

yes that's the one

so the discount thingy should work now

between characters

[covert salmon]

don't you need to upgrade to max to get 10 crest cost on any given slot?

is there no limit to ascendant upgrades? can you just farm mythic 10s and upgrade as many slots as you want? both trinkets and weapon?

[novel fern]

if you have 289 on 1 slot then other characters get 10 crest discount up to 289

[novel fern]

it seems to be that way

[covert salmon]

so 3 of those items this week possible?

[novel fern]

this also works with crafted items so you can craft an item on an alt to get the discount up to 285 on your main

[mossy minnow]

yes

[covert salmon]

that's nice

I thought you get only 1 this week

unfortunately I don't have myth 2nd trinket

I have gaze only

[novel fern]

just be careful with brainrot and burnout farming 10s like crazy

[covert salmon]

5x10 = 1 voidcore

I will need to get myth weapon on my mage to get 10 crest 5>6 myth

[novel fern]

yeah you can send it on a hero trinket and then later get more for an eventual myth trinket

[ripe bear]

you can use them on both hero and myth track gear

[novel fern]

make sure it's a twohander to save crests on the mage

[covert salmon]

what ilvl does voidcore upgrade if you use on a hero item?

[novel fern]

+9 most likely

[ripe bear]

it adds the same amount of ilvls as it does to a myth item

[covert salmon]

can I get week (I guess 3rd week since bonus rolls came) times 2 bonus roll tokens on my mage?

[ripe bear]

bonus rolls are retroactive, so you can always catch up. If you hit 90 today, you could buy up to the max bonus rolls as a character who was 90 when they came out

[covert salmon]

that's good news

[latent knoll]

I have 8 bonus rolls, 180 ilvl gear completely new druid. I do not plan on raiding, what dungeon should I spend my rerolls do you think? (i.e. which dungeon has the most useful gear in the one loot pool)

[covert salmon]

okay last question, will I get voidcore shards on my alt for each m10 dungeon?

[ripe bear]

the unlock is account wide afaik so you should start being able to get them as soon as you hit 90 on a character

[covert salmon]

shit, no crests on my mage either, but I should just need 20 for 5->6 myth weapon upgrade

7 bonus rolls, I just need to farm nexus point 7 times at worst case

already got 1 ring

now the problem is, to get in nexus 10 runs, they are quite popular lol

I guess many class/specs want the ring set

thanks for the helps btw

I should have just saved 10 more crests, would have saved a lot of headache

but oh well

[earnest wadi]

2 bonus rolls max now and I will have all the npx loot thankfully. tired of it

[covert salmon]

rip, nobody invites my 272 mage to nexus 10s

god damn it, why I used all my crests

nice, got one invite

[patent bone]

if im just doing m+ on my bear, what dungeon is best to send rolls in ?

[neat sapphire]

WS if not mistaken

[patent bone]

thanks

is elune favor still taken after the nerfs ?

[halcyon jackal]

is it the first ever season that mage is out of the meta ?

[fallen robin]

Personal preference but it depends on your build. It is less strong.

[wary hearth]

For EC, would it be worth removing 1 point from killing blow to put 1 extra point in fury of nature? (I do use apex)

[rustic kestrel]

If you use apex or maul/raze in any way, then KB is mandatory

[wary hearth]

Thanks

[thin radish]

Hello! Does anyone have the link to the m+ build post nerfs please?

Thank you ❤️

[covert salmon]

I have no idea, is it?

[latent atlas]

Jesus I feel just squishy again

[hexed trench]

@zealous stag help this man out like you helped me

[latent atlas]

Do we pull thrash and then mb into lunar beam I feel like I just folded in a 12 at 270

[hexed trench]

you def want barkskin rollin on pull

[latent atlas]

See I had Carlson and idk I just went down fast

[hexed trench]

wtf is carlson

what pull specifically?

[latent atlas]

Barkskin

First lust pull of skyreaxh

We got the corner collected and I just couldn’t stay up. Also the pull after first boss do we collect birds on stairs and go to the right and pull all that mess too?

[main solstice]

why does it feel like i die from everything after this nerf

noapex build

i take like double dmg taken

something wrong ? overnerf?

went from immortal dont have to press fr in +18 to dead with fr

???

fuck blizz

never tanking again

[kind seal]

blame healer

[main solstice]

maybe

[urban hawk]

have you tried pressing iron fur

[main solstice]

its macro with all my spells so yes

its on 4+ stacks all the time

[urban hawk]

i got nothin then thats all i do

[main solstice]

still take double dmg taken this nerf

why

[urban hawk]

maybe go brew man

[main solstice]

did they nerf our survival

or just dmg?

[wary hearth]

weaker ursoc shield and weaker healing, so yeah, they nerfed survival.

[main solstice]

sad

i guess it was op not even have to press defensives but now i die with defesives feel like huge nerf

back to dps

[lament dock]

Lmao, if you're dying repeatedly right now, it isn't the nerf my man

What keys are you in

Just saw the 18 post. There's no shot you're just falling over in an 18 unless you're seriously misplaying

[grave lodge]

Does anyone know what ilvl they run in MDI? Is it 6/6 Myth?

[native heath]

Yes, you pick the items already maxed out from a vendor, all of the armor also has avoidance as a tertiary.

[grave lodge]

Alright thanks. Feels like 15-17 keys are kinda low considering they have max gear and are the best teams.

I guess it's to have shorter matches but it's fun to see them struggle on really high keys.

[brazen tinsel]

Well this was the speedrun competition

I assume (hope) we get the high key push version again next season

[neat fox]

guidon or emberwing feather from mythic vault slot? incarn doesnt line up with feather right?!

[grave lodge]

I simmed gaze, puzzle box & the two ws trinkets. Both the 1/6 & 6/6 versions for gaze hero, vs. m+ myth trinkets. With the default 1 x Patchwerk 5 min settings. Ws trinkets are winning for me.

[lucid arrow]

are you raiding or m+ing

[grave lodge]

m+. Which option do I use for that? When I was checking for boomy back then ppl told me to just use patchwerk cause other options might not be working correctly for the sim.

[lucid arrow]

ye but not 1 patchwerk, most classes do 1, 5, 8 to check st and aoe dmg but for m+ 5 and 8 is more important

also i think guardian works with dungeon slice?

-Dungeonslice tries to simulate a dungeon, it’s not perfect, but if you wanna get the best bang for your buck in an m+ it’s the best we have available.

is what the pins say

[grave lodge]

I'll try it. At least it doesn't say that it might not work. I think that was the case for boomy.

[outer cave]

in my humble opinion pizzle box is bait. it might look good on sims but you have 1s channel where you are taking damage

[neat fox]

isnt it 2 secs?

[outer cave]

even worse

[quaint pond]

you just lose dodge, it's mild loss for bears

much worse for block tanks

it can be annoying since you can't move while casting but it's not a huge defensive issue for bears

[ivory depot]

if I use the voidcore on a crafted weapon, will it be lower ilvl than a regular myth item when upgraded?

[outer cave]

yes but apparently you can get voidcores unlimited amount so just use it

[ivory depot]

really

sick

ty

[outer cave]

ye something like every 5 dungeons you do 10 or more you get a free voidcore

[lilac prairie]

T11 Bountiful Chest and Nightmare Prey are 100% drop rate

[outer cave]

m+ and raid bosses not 100%? I only did myth chim today so IDK

[short nest]

slightly lower, it bumps to 295 instead of 298 iirc

[short nest]

m+ 10 and up, raid bosses heroic or higher

I think they can drop from lower keys and normal raid, just not 100%

[outer cave]

what is different for myth 1st boss amerator for tanks?

[spare falcon]

is it more efficient to farm ritual 1 or 5 for shards?

[vague sage]

They just nerfed tier 1, which was already kinda slow. At this point, just go do one of the 100% methods instead

[forest flume]

preys are really fast

[grave lodge]

Gaze / heart pulls ahead here but it's only around 400 dps. I think I'll just go for the ws trinkets for now and try to get gaze with rolls once I can do mythic chim. Until then I'll just hope for a lucky vault to get the hero version.

[oblique moat]

5 will drop at 100% so

[grave lodge]

Do you guys think Blizz will nerf bear even further in the coming weeks? Or are we safe until they rework our apex talents? Obviously no one knows, just wanna hear ppls thoughts on it.

Since bear still seems to be the top performing tank together with monk.

[daring berry]

Someone always has to be on top. The fact bear and brew are so close comparably, and brew has only gotten very minor nerfs all season, along with the fact every other tank got buffed yesterday, implies to me at least that bear and brew are where blizzard believes tanks “should” be, so I personally think we’re likely to see another round of other tank buffs rather than more bear/brew nerfs.

[rustic kestrel]

its been 2 days since sweeping tank changes

people need to chill and watch what happens

[jaunty cedar]

recs for embelleshments?

Darkmoon Hunt and Arcanoweave Lining?

[lucid arrow]

arcanoweave and loa at this point

[tired ravine]

has the bear build changed?

[jaunty cedar]

loa?

[vague sage]

Yeah why loa. Isnt it just 2 arcano for almost everyone

[lucid arrow]

oh you can double arcano

ye 2 arcano

[covert stone]

Are the 2 set rings from nexus bis now for m+? I see a lot of Druid first playing with it.

[rustic kestrel]

they are like

.1% more dmg

[lucid arrow]

so they're .1% bis

[rustic kestrel]

so like, technically

[vague sage]

Its pathetic. But bear isnt sensitive to secondaries, so its ""free""

[covert stone]

So is I could time a 20 failed with 0.1 sec late.

With it

[rustic kestrel]

true

based

[covert stone]

Lol

I have 6 extra voidcore I just don’t know where to is it

I was planing to use full on nexus since all items got haste

[lucid arrow]

actually i dont think its that little

[rustic kestrel]

oh shit

ITS FUCKIN GAMING

[rustic kestrel]

lets gooo

[lucid arrow]

u laugh but literal whole talent nodes give similar value

[olive hare]

Still more dmg than no-apex mauls

[rustic kestrel]

na its more sizable than I thought

but also neither of those two talents should be doing that little damage

[olive hare]

Well WN is two damage sources in logs, thats the bottom one 😅

[sweet pasture]

I have a question cuz i can't figure it out by myself cheking websites 🙁 what are the embelishment we are currently crafting? On a lot of sites it says that is x2 arcanoweave lining but idk if it is a mistake that the site is doubling it because theres different slot were people wear it or is it true that we use it x2?

[spare falcon]

Are u sure? It didnt drop on my first one, and blizzard said they buffed the droprate slightly at tier 5 so i assume its not 100

[oblique moat]

the hotfix only went through a couple hours ago

[vague sage]

Its not 100%

[olive hare]

We're mostly using arcano on bracers + back yeah, because of those slots being low budget (so you dont miss a lot of mainstat from those 3 item levels below a mythic gear piece) and ring embellishments being worse than arcano for the bis setup.

[oblique moat]

oh you're right

[spare falcon]

The notes is not saying tier 5 is 100%

[oblique moat]

well yeah they don't like telling us the drop rates that aren't 100 so i guess we'll never know

sad

[twilit drum]

M+, AA, which buff to get?

[zinc hill]

probably haste imo?

[ivory harness]

Guys, whats the most efficient way to farm those voidshards?

[vague sage]

Everything on the list is fine. Just pick what you like

[foggy cave]

maybe a stupid question, but with the new no apex talent build for M+. is there any point in running 4 set?

[olive hare]

Yeah, boss damage. Using maul in single target is still a dps gain if you have 4piece. But dropping ilvl to get 4pc is pointless with a no apex build.

[rustic kestrel]

I kinda wonder why this is ever a question because we have infinite tier pieces now

i suppose brand new toons

[vague sage]

Usually people are thinking about optimising the secondaries by swapping out tier pieces, but its a reaaaaally tiny MAYBE benefit

[sacred saddle]

I have the new void forge thing, I have alnseer and my weapon maxxed heroic. I also have 80 myth crests and my only remaining piece of champ gear is my belt. Should I use crests on crafting a 285 weapon and then upgrading it? or should I use my crest for a huge belt ilvl increase and then use my upgrade thing on my weapon anyway?

kinda lost

or save it? idk how to sim stuff but im trying and cant figure it out

[grave vapor]

don't upgrade hroic weapon

[late basin]

using it on hero 6/6 gives equivalent myth 5/6

so can save crests

[drifting fable]

does monk or demonhunter buff make thrash do more dmg?

[late basin]

raises the high watermark accordingly

[sacred saddle]

what would yall do? use the crests on the belt?

and the upgrade on the weapon or pray for an eventual myth weapon? I hit 3k so im lowkey done with m+ this season anyway

[late basin]

oh crests not the voidcore

mb

[sacred saddle]

oh okay, so ignore belt and craft the weapon?

[vague sage]

It depends on what you already have. Belt is a tiny slot. Low prior to get that up

Go spend your bonus rolls and hope to get a weapon first

[late basin]

if you have the voidcore use it for the weapon it's easy to farm more shards.

[grave vapor]

I would make weapon, you can get heroic belt easily from delves

[late basin]

I would just bonus roll the weapon don't craft it at this point

[sacred saddle]

aright imma craft 285 weapon and then use the thing on it

cuz im not gonna do dungeons anyway im retired

[grave vapor]

Is there a limit on how many voidcore shards?

[late basin]

nope

I'm already 20 in

[grave vapor]

woah

good to know

[late basin]

both my trinkets were hero so it was nice to know that the trash myth trinket I had bonus rolled got a "free" upgrade to 285 too.

[sacred saddle]

what embelishment on the weapon? haste vers?

[late basin]

Ampoule of pure void bleh

acuity of the rend

[sacred saddle]

missive I mean

for crafting

[late basin]

I wouldnt craft it.

but it not doing dungeons

I guess that makes sense

any other embellished pieces?

[sacred saddle]

feet and wrist. Isnt there a limit to the amount of embelisshed stuff I can have?

I remember from dragonflight

[late basin]

2

[sacred saddle]

well thats no good

[late basin]

glad I asked

[sacred saddle]

same lol

imma wait then i think

[late basin]

try getting in at least 1 M10 per week

[sacred saddle]

yessir

[oblique moat]

2h weapon embellish counts as one

you can have another on top of that

[torpid yoke]

I tend to grab vers just to be a bit more durable

[olive hare]

Depends. If youre playing Elunes Chosen and have lunar calling talented, Thrash benefits from chaos brand, if not, it benefits from mystic touch.

[unique oyster]

@grand plinth What percentage of statistics should I be tracking?

[lone canopy]

keen to see that, that would be very impressive

[grand plinth]

What do you mean

[stone coral]

for bear if i dont have gaze and shield trinket - i would want the one from sky reach and heart from Spires right ?

[lone canopy]

guidon is nice too, from averzian

[stone coral]

for myth track and upgrading with the void item?

I wont raid on this guy

[lone canopy]

first boss is very puggable but yeah i wouldnt worry

[stone coral]

so just need what i can get and didnt want to send on something i dont want to use - rn i have Heroic gaze and myth Solar prism

[visual current]

guys quick question I just noticed while playing guardian druid that my baseline haste in let's say fly form or human form is 35% but every time i shift into bear it dips to 25% haste is that normal? and if someone knows whats the recomended haste % to have for smooth play

[stone coral]

When i get my myth weapon i send on that but its a big deal since you can farm more

[white sentinel]

What is the story with the Mage tower? Still good to use some type of chese or just high ilvl intimacy work?

[visual current]

hmm yeah that does check out lol 🙂 is 26% haste too low for bear looks tough to get it much higher even with haste flask and haste on neck/rings

[lone canopy]

nah thats decent

im sitting at 31% with flask

wouldnt want much higher

[lone nacelle]

Question
If I got the Voidshards quest done on one character
Do I need to do anything on my alts? Couldn’t find the quest for shards there

[lone canopy]

no

[visual current]

no, I was wondering the same, the 1 free voidshard apparently u only get it on the toon you completed the quest with but afterthat if u log on alts and do content that drops them you'll get them there too

[lone canopy]

pretty sure as long as you've done your campaign skip, they're all at the same stage of the void area quest, they'll just start dropping warband wide

[rose trout]

New tank, sorry if already asked recently, but are we still on Elune’s chosen for raid / M+?

[young blade]

Yep

[rose trout]

Thank you

[drifting fable]

which one do i level up?

to 298 first

[abstract raven]

Can be Simed

[abstract raven]

DotC in raid, M+ EC or DotC (bulid dependent)

[novel fern]

yo is an absorb trinket important for M+? I guess for gathering packs at least?

or just to cover all CDs having downtime at the same time for example on battleaxes

[abstract raven]

In to 19/20s still not used one, looking at top keys some people have been using them in 21/22s

[quasi vigil]

Hello guys - as a fresh fotm Guardian druid, where do I use all my Bonusrolls?

[merry quest]

Exhaust the loot pool of spire

[young blade]

Academy , Windrunner Spire 10 and depending on what you got you can craft rest of gear that you need

[craggy ridge]

Should i use guidon with incarn or should i just send it on cd in keys, doing 18-19's atm

[merry quest]

With incarn

[limber plover]

when talented into sundering roar, is there better times to use it, or is it simply slam on CD? Should i be holding it for incarn?

[merry quest]

The only real reason to use sundering roar is to reset thrash cd. So don’t use it while thrash is available

[limber plover]

Thank you 🙂

[frozen yarrow]

Isnt it "important" to sundering roar at 5 thrash stacks also ?