guardian

[trim plaza]

their favourite build got small nerf, gotta be angry now

[worthy trench]

I mean still tanky and the damage you’ll be lowers than some dps lol

I mean 5 bears downing a 20+ was bound to get the class nurfed

[trim plaza]

yes but it was overpowered before that already xd

[celest wave]

That’s it shut the discord down we got nerfed

https://tenor.com/view/panda-rage-angry-office-gif-14446672

[worthy trench]

Lmao

[noble ledge]

Is the changes out in NA already?

[grave vapor]

yes

[rustic kestrel]

You mean how the build was dogshit and now its not? Thats how it works. We dont recomend bad builds on purpose.

[storm wave]

so, all cry apart.
is there any better build already or still thrash the best?

[worthy trench]

I mean every class was to use their apex talents but I mean if it isn’t viable then gotta fix / rework it

[trim plaza]

apex builds are prob on bar with trash settings

[grand plinth]

Yeah I think Apex DOTC was very good

and has only gotten better by comparison

[idle spindle]

So back to apex? 🤣

[lone flare]

Most of us never left cus it's better

[grand plinth]

I mean thats not true

Most people were playing nopex

However I think DOTC was very under rated

and you should try both out

and look at your timers not your overall

[noble ledge]

What's the impact of the changes so far? a

Are we getting nerf next reset

[trim plaza]

7-10% overall nerf for EC

[noble ledge]

ovo

[trim plaza]

DotC 7%

[noble ledge]

Okeee

[trim plaza]

or something like that

bulok can confirm

so, still strong bear xd

[daring nymph]

that wasnt the reason why the spec got nerfed

degen build still viable

[grand plinth]

Yeah peoiple have been doing shit like that for forever

[daring nymph]

but people eventually gotta learn the difference between pad damage and important damage

nothing has changed

[trim plaza]

they wont

sad true

[idle spindle]

Meter cheesing it’s the new meta

[violet holly]

new?

[idle spindle]

🤣

[kind seal]

🤣

[grand plinth]

IDK even as like the number one prio ST DOTC advocate

[unique lava]

Should we drop elunes favored for ursols warding?

[grand plinth]

I think its more nuanced than that

[grand plinth]

Probably not

[trim plaza]

nah

[grand plinth]

Healing and magic dr are more or less the same thing

and ef gives more healing that warding does dr

[lyric wraith]

ef did a lot of overhealing, i dont think its as huge as ppl make it

[trim plaza]

dont, dont walk to trap

save urself

we had a long argument about overheal for clueless people already, not again

[idle spindle]

Has the EC/APEX build change? Who has the latest

[fallen robin]

If you're on the ball about marking you used to be able to sort for "damage to Skull marked targets".

[trim plaza]

brybear updated a video about builds if u want to check

[fallen robin]

Nothing has changed.

[idle spindle]

Ty

[fallen robin]

But how much did you conclude we should value UW vs EF at?

[violet holly]

uh oh

[trim plaza]

UW value is omega small before like super high keys i feel like

and even there its not game saver

[grand plinth]

Yeah its super nice in certain keys

[fallen robin]

But my 5% DR stacked on my 10% DR and 15% DR.

[grand plinth]

But its better for DOTC

[fallen robin]

And another 15% DR as DotC

[grand plinth]

Dotc has less competition and more stacking dr

the EC build sorta just heals everything off

VERY rarely are you actually getting on shot by magic dam

if you wanted to tech it in AA or MT or like Seat it might be good

[fallen robin]

@grand plinth you competing with the streamers/YTs now?

[grand plinth]

The mobs that melee for magic damage are sick and twisted

I think I was before

[fallen robin]

Truth those Axes pump

[trim plaza]

seat? why seat

[grand plinth]

oh do you mean like for dam

or io

[fallen robin]

For trying to get the fotm/tier list content fans

[grand plinth]

OH lmao

[trim plaza]

mby last boss u get some value from UW now that i think of it

[violet holly]

tier list when

[fallen robin]

Lots of places you can get UW value. But mitigations isn't implemented well enough that you could get an accurate measurement off of it.

[grand plinth]

I mean my situation is just that like. I kinda found myself at the top this season out of no where. So I might as well try to use it. Plus I genuinely enjoy helping people. IDC if my guide gets a ton of views as long as some people get to use it to find a build they enjoy playing more

[zealous nacelle]

soooo like

DOTC back alive or

what we doing boys

[grand plinth]

yeah mt last boss has a lot of places where you cant heal but want the DR

[violet holly]

it never died

[zealous nacelle]

erm

[grand plinth]

I think both were viable before. DOTC has a better profile but EC had better overall

The overalls are much closer now though

[zealous nacelle]

hmmm

So do I fr swap back to the dotc build damn

[grand plinth]

Which does buff DOTC relative

[zealous nacelle]

this thrash build boring as hell tho

[grand plinth]

The play with DOTC now is Razeless

[trim plaza]

if u dont want to fall asleep, give DotC a go

[violet holly]

what do I get instead of raze

[shut jasper]

extra fc is always nice

[onyx solstice]

any tips for a new bear tank. im 250 ilvl atm from doing solo content. i think i have pretty good knowledge on all of the dungeons from a dps perspective but find myself hesitating queuing as a tank , i guess just dont wanna be that guy bricking peeps keys

[violet holly]

get harnessed rage back?

[grand plinth]

No I'll ss my build one sec

[fallen robin]

Go brick some keys and learn the tank stuff, feels great

[trim pewter]

Can anyone recommend a good routes to follow in these dungeons? I’m using the raider IO routes the 2 to 11 ones and I hate to say they suck but I feel like I have to pull the entire dungeon and people are looking at me like I’m crazy

[onyx solstice]

what Nox said!! i look at dungeon routes and think to myself im just gonna go splat if i pull all that lol

[exotic verge]

are we still playing same EC build as last week?

[violet holly]

I guess they are good enough if you dont know about the dungeon

[languid yacht]

you can always brick your own key :3

[violet holly]

but you will be pulling like 2-3 packs every time

[shut jasper]

if you're a newer player and are doing lower keys honestly just start with lindormi's guidance on

and follow it at your own pace

[late thistle]

Honestly I recommend playing your own key that way the level will just sit where you are at that time

[violet holly]

yeah I think the guidance buff thing is ok as well

[distant cipher]

yeh

[fallen robin]

Do Lindormi's. Then double pull Lindormi's pulls. Then triple pull Lindormi's pulls.

[grand plinth]

This is what I found the best

[shut jasper]

much easier than trying to remember a guide when you're not used to it

[trim plaza]

pretty sure upprade always adds 10ilvl to current one

[violet holly]

ah I don't have MN

[fallen robin]

Then play around with some of the open spaces if you find your groups really don't like certain things.

[trim plaza]

no harnessed with DotC? u sure about that

[teal moat]

so nerfs came out alrdy huh but took em 2 months for monk ;p

[grand plinth]

You could play Waking nightmare instead but everytime I tested it, it did less overall than moonless

[shut jasper]

no double mangle for dotc feels so wrong

[trim plaza]

exactly

[shut jasper]

I know it's a good choice to drop it for aoe damage

[grand plinth]

You could play that instead of moonless

[shut jasper]

but it just feels off

[grand plinth]

if you wanted to

it feels better but its defo less dps

[rustic kestrel]

I have gone back and forth on it

[trim plaza]

it gives a lot of taste for DotC

[grand plinth]

I tested it and my Mangle dps went up by about 1k but then you loose like the 5k moonless dps

[shut jasper]

I tried it after you suggested it, did not like

[rustic kestrel]

I use it again currently

[shut jasper]

the 2 mangles makes doing the powershifting nonesense st much smoother too

[grand plinth]

My take is, that talents gives you actual 0 value in incarn right now

[rustic kestrel]

Thats the biggest argument against

[grand plinth]

Like you press incarn and a talent point dissapears from your screen

[shut jasper]

it does very little aoe in general honestly

[grand plinth]

and I found that when I was swiping it was proccing gore enough anyways

Like fully it feels nicer and its defo tankier

[shut jasper]

it's mostly a nice to have st

[grand plinth]

Like i'd rather be running HR

But even in ST its less dam than moonless

[trim plaza]

its mby less st but holy f it feels better to play

[shut jasper]

moonless in general is a lot of damage

[grand plinth]

oh ya 100p it feels better

no arguement there

[shut jasper]

it's a feel good talent that's not actually that amazing numbers wise

[grand plinth]

Yah like I said you get 0 value in incarn and even the value outside is pretty dubious

in aoe you can swipe for a basically guranteed gore proc

[rustic kestrel]

The healing and on demand rage boosy is pretty good though

[grand plinth]

^^

[rustic kestrel]

Im not editing boosy

[grand plinth]

Yeah like its tankier and gives you more leway

Like you dont have to be as meticulous with your rage spent

on ST at least

But like again it gives you 0 value in incarn, close to 0 in non incarn aoe and pretty decent value in ST

and Moonless just performs good in all 3 of those

[tiny robin]

this feels so cursed

[fallen robin]

Would love if they added a rage gen hook to DotC and also gave a higher cap on rage to EC

[grand plinth]

its good tho trust

[rustic kestrel]

Twin claw gives about 6 rage a dungeon, not enough for you?

[trim plaza]

XD

[tiny robin]

I believe but man

[fallen robin]

[tiny robin]

dotc with no double mangle and no raze

[rustic kestrel]

If it actually worked on ravage like it should itd be far better

[tiny robin]

are you just ironfur dumping on packs unless you get a proc?

[rustic kestrel]

Yup

[late thistle]

Is it a good build for average players though? I can see myself messing up rotation and such a lot more than EC

[rustic kestrel]

Youll keep higher ironfur than the ec builds

[tiny robin]

ec is very comfy and newer player friendly

[trim plaza]

wait are u saying its not procing from ravage

[rustic kestrel]

Razeless dotc is easy as fuck. You mangle thrash and fill with swipe

[fallen robin]

Unless you absolutely don't need the IF. There are very few mobs this season that purely cast/non physical melees.

[rustic kestrel]

Hit ravage when it procs

Thats all

[violet holly]

oh no pressing swipe

its on 6 I will have to move it

[grand plinth]

The hardest part tbh

is trying to make sure you thrash every other global in incarn, while also not overcapping on rage while also not munching your ravage proc while also trying to be above 60 rage for kb

[trim plaza]

its almost same, u just send ravage at 60 rage when it procs, otherways dump rage to ironfur and keep mangling/trashing

[grand plinth]

Like not being able to press ravage after mangle in incarn is quite annoying

[tiny robin]

how do you think no beam but grabbing raze would do

[rustic kestrel]

You need beam to get to GG/TM

[late thistle]

I've always struggled with Rage/energy classes where you need to sit towards the cap the amount of resource I waste

[grand plinth]

My build takes warding anyways

so that gets you there

[late thistle]

Guess it's just muscle memory

[tiny robin]

yeh

[grand plinth]

I think you could take raze instead of beam

but then I think you need to take goe

[trim plaza]

u dont need to sit towards cap, just when u see ravage proc, get 60 and slam it then back to basic rotation

[grand plinth]

I think I feel about it about the same as I do Harnessed rage

[trim plaza]

few hours and u got it

[grand plinth]

In incarn most of the rage you can spend not on ironfur goes to ravage anyways

So you'd want to spend on raze like only once or twice anyways

[native heath]

Could you not just drop warding and take raze in that, though? Or too big of a def loss?

[trim plaza]

beam kinda low value for DotC

[grand plinth]

You could

I mostly take it to path me to moonless

[trim plaza]

ohh forgot

[grand plinth]

because I dont take raze

I think maybe my point is that in ST raze is no better than maul

and in AOE if you dont take goe

you wouldn't have many oppertunities to press raze that aren't ravages anyways

So the question is, would you rather have like 4 extra razed per min or 5% mastery

Pre-nerf that trade off was worth it

But post changes I dont think it is

[pearl warren]

Where i can see guardian rotation AFTER the buffs/nerfs recently? I'm playing elune and it's literally moonfire spam + trash + beam?

[grand plinth]

Rotations are the same

[trim plaza]

if u plau no apex its same

[grand plinth]

The only thing that has changed is for DOTC thrash is no longer better than mangle in specifically single target

Now they're like identical

[tiny robin]

are apexless and apex closer in performance now at least

cause I miss my funny burst

[grand plinth]

Yes you can play apex

dotc

You could before too tbh

Like my DOTC 20 AA is one of the faster AAs done

Partly because I absolutely break the bosses neck

Like lemme get some logs

[tiny robin]

poor crawth

[daring nymph]

Deserved

Idk agin there’s a level where people have to decide to pad or do useful dps

Since tank damage does make a difference at that high level of key

I’m a fan of ec apex myself tbh

[grand plinth]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kZy4HGqrxFN9dLnX?fight=7&type=damage-done&source=399&by=target

So this is the top log dps wise in a 20 AA

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pGKv9fqZLDtd18Qg?fight=last&type=damage-done&by=target&source=3

Here is mine which is the top dps done by DOTC in AA

He did 13k more than DPS than me overall

But he did 44k to the hungry lashers and I only did 24k

So if you take out that dps which literally does not even matter

I beat him by like 7k dps

[ocean stump]

Who do I have to bribe at Blizz to just let this be my Apex talents? Swipe could be Thrash in this, too, but would be nice to have a reason to use Swipe more often than never

Rank 1
[Wild Charge/Tiger Dash] now grants Barkskin for 4 seconds and grants Empowered Swipe for 6 seconds.

Empowered Swipe deals 300% additional damage, strikes an additional time, and makes your next Maul cost no Rage.

Rank 2
Mastery increased by 3%. Mangle has a 15% chance to grant Empowered Swipe.

Rank 3
Mastery increased by 6%. Mangle's chance to grant Empowered Swipe increased to 30%.

Rank 4
Maul is no longer affected by the global cooldown. Each Maul now applies Ironfur for 5 seconds.

[paper canopy]

Am I still supposed to do the braindead rotation on ST

[quaint pond]

no, it's bad but you can prolly get away with it

[paper canopy]

Where is optimal

[daring nymph]

Never cook again

[quaint pond]

use mangle & maul with excess rage

[trim plaza]

the f is this

[ocean stump]

Basic andy calling in

[paper canopy]

ty

[sullen cove]

People think we use the EC no apex build after nerfs? If we do how much do you press maul outside of incarn and how do you spend ur rage in ST? Maul seems so dead in details on both ST and overall ?

[ocean stump]

M+ def no apex/ec still

[edgy merlin]

many giga dmg logs by EC are like magister's with useless pad on smallies and such

[serene bridge]

blizz even wrote they didnt wnna break the broken 1 button class build -.-

[edgy merlin]

I'll probably see how DotC feels next week again

at least I can powershift again

[grand plinth]

I think its better

We were slamming AA's back to back

and when I swapped to DOTC our splits dropped by like 10 seconds per boss

[steel vault]

whats best place to farm voidshards now that they're out ?

[edgy merlin]

It already simmed better this week but I didnt quite get the numbers, even at dummies, dunno if sims are accurate or I'm just not optimizing it

[grand plinth]

I only doubted myself cause everyone whos been better at the game for longer than me was doing the squish build

But everytime I tried it, it was just terrorism on my timer

[sullen cove]

we never press maul even in ST on EC m+ ? looking at the log

[lament dock]

Prio damage = GOAT for M+

[ocean stump]

Nope; prob with maul on that build is it takes a global so you’re trading that for -3 seconds off lunar beam cooldown you’d get just from hitting moonfire

[grand plinth]

and like I think to if you shit on the smallies you kill your dks empi targets

[lament dock]

Yeah. Killing your DPS's funnel targets is troll as hell

I say, fully knowing I'm running the EC build bc big numby = good to me

[grand plinth]

It defo has benefits dont get me wrong

[ocean stump]

The funnel argument def valid though if that’s the comp

[grand plinth]

overall is overall still

and some comps its different for

Like squishs team does really good on small target counts but doesnt pad well

so for him it makes a lot of sense

Also like the EC build does a lot of strong passive healing

One thing that I noticed with DOTC is that if my healer wasnt very good you kinda can bleed out

Cause Frenzied is powerful but tied to a cd

wheres just thrashing for big hps is super strong

and then on the flipside there is that DOTC is much better at surviving big individual hits, and EC can kinda flop on low target counts where it struggles to heal stuff off

[mental notch]

Lunacity is awesome so I stay EC

[grand plinth]

My point in all this too is like, this game is very complex and what is the best thing to do is often more involved than just what sims the best, esp for tanks. So you should try stuff out to see how it feels and experiment with stuff

[agile spruce]

we frickin did it

https://i.imgur.com/bXu7L0v.png

[lament dock]

CONGRATS!!!!!

[grand plinth]

GRATS thats huge

[tiny robin]

if I've got a myth weapon should I go for double arcanoweave or get somethin else like loa worshiper's band?

[tiny robin]

yoooo

[near nymph]

when i go on bosses in catform, do i only press hotw or also something like rake or ferocious bite?

[trim plaza]

only HotW

[near nymph]

ok thank you

[errant helm]

Guys, in the new EC build for keys, do we just not press maul now? *if not talented into raze ofc

[noble ledge]

I hate doing Dreamrift HC and NM with pugs

Mainly because when I get placed as 2nd person to do the soak I either hold my damage at the beginning or rip agro by accident and then everyone is angry at me

https://tenor.com/view/i-want-cokie-gif-3387290697968250521

[trim plaza]

this is happening also pugging in mythic

to me atleast

fun times to open 130k+ and other tank cant even break 30k with lust

[desert pecan]

I let it rip and tell the other tank to taunt twice

[noble ledge]

That's the thing I do, and that's the mistake I make because they get angry when you tell them to do that

[desert pecan]

It’s funny bursting for 150k dps and grabbing agro, “wtf happened, oh shit the bear tank did 15x the monk dmg”

[noble ledge]

x.x

[red knoll]

my monk cotank just expects it

at this point

lmao

i dont even have to taunt to get aggro on saladbar

he's just there to hold aggro till im done my opener

[rustic mauve]

Is the nerf live? In eu

[uneven flame]

Other tank should taunt regardless

[shut jasper]

the worst part is there's such an easy way around it, all the co tank has to do is taunt shortly before the circle goes out

[covert prairie]

i just run around in a small circle.let them grab aggro kekw

[sturdy scarab]

yo guys, does Forestwalk trigger from Dream guide procc?

[sweet salmon]

guys where do u spend ur nebulous voidcores?

[trim plaza]

Weapon prob first

[sweet salmon]

I just leveled up a guardian druid and wondering how to spend my voidcores, got 3/6 hero on every slot except shoulder-chest-waist

[sweet salmon]

chim mythic?

[trim plaza]

Or u mean the bonusrolls?

[sweet salmon]

yea the bonus rolls

• i havent crafted anything yet

[trim plaza]

Go windrunner spire

Its prob best dungeon for fresh char

Weapon, 2 good trinkets, tier slots

Just remember to be guardian loot spec so u dont get those bad dps trinkets

[sweet salmon]

tnx for the tips mate

[strange hazel]

Is it worth taking heroic gaze over a myth track item?

[trim plaza]

No problems xd

[uneven flame]

iidk if posted but brybear made a video about DOTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vee5fJ7SmyM

[trim plaza]

Depends alot about myth item but i would say sim

If u have a chance for myth gaze then mby not

[strange hazel]

Thing is I'd be replacing puzzle box which already sims insane

[trim plaza]

What is ur other trinket

Gaze+puzzle is prob one the best combos u can have

[strange hazel]

heart of wind

[trim plaza]

Ye he mentioned it about 1hr ago

[trim plaza]

Gaze wins heart

Anyday of the week

[strange hazel]

6/6 myth heart of wind

[trim plaza]

But sim to be sure, also to note do u play with apex

[strange hazel]

In raid, yeah

[trim plaza]

Well then puzzle box is good

But ye gaze is really hecking strong trinket

[olive compass]

fellas

whats the off-piece

chest or legs ?

[trim plaza]

Huh

What u mean off piece

[olive compass]

off-tier piece

[trim plaza]

Cant rmemeber at all the stats

If i remember correct i have shoulders as off piece

[strange hazel]

it just depends on your other gear really, all 5 can fit

[trim plaza]

Ye

[errant helm]

i have helmet as off-piece

[olive compass]

fair

[zinc hill]

Isn’t there a piece of gear with nastery+crit? Probably that one

[smoky cedar]

soooo are we back to Ironfur in Thrash macro in m+?

[strange hazel]

shoulders, but imo prio is haste > crit = mast > verse

[pallid charm]

for raid, m+, or both?

[strange hazel]

I'm not really minmaxy enough to have different gearsets for raid and m+, so for me both

[lament dock]

You can but you shouldn't. That's the correct opinion

[smoky cedar]

no other spender though

[lament dock]

For EC Nopex build that is correct

[near nymph]

do i ever press swipe? like for gathering for example? or just moonfire and trash even then?^^

[trim plaza]

Moonfire from far->hit trash when they are stacked and start blasting

U can also send lunar beam from range while walking into pack before first trash

[normal flower]

I press swipe if I've tagged a pack and it's coming but I need threat on things around.

Basically swipe if you want to wait a GCD before trash and too much shit for moonfire / lb on cd

[strange hazel]

Swipe is less useless if you are DotC because of gore procs and it extends dreadful wounds

and obv turning maul into ravage

[red knoll]

Swipe is still useless

i only press it in raid when i literally have nothing else to press

[near nymph]

thanks for the answers 🙂

[odd mica]

is thrash build stil lbest?

[azure scarab]

believe its still a top[ contender

[torpid yoke]

Druid still feels strong af

[azure scarab]

Because it is.

[hoary dagger]

do we still not use mangle with apexless build?

[red knoll]

well it was already numerically behind dotc

and it really just got worse than dotc

but its still EV wise the best

[autumn needle]

Is keeping Ironfur up for the 5% mastery buff worth it from a dps perspective?

[strange hazel]

You should be keeping at the very least 1 stack up constantly regardless

[autumn needle]

So the 1 stack is worth it no matter what from a purely dps pov. Sounds good to me if so.

[merry quest]

from a super purely dps perspective (the sort of perspective that only really matters in raid, likely farm bosses) youll gain slightly more damage by forgoing fur entirely meaning that point is p much wasted

but in keys you'll have a fur up anyway so no harm no foul

[glossy geode]

Mythic+, we thinking elune's chosen or DOTC

[lament dock]

Thinking? Am a bear

[unique oyster]

@grand plinth Should the Elune build you mention in your video hit like this or even harder?

[grand plinth]

I think I typically have about 10% of my dps as Raze

But I think relative to your groups dps this is probably really good

Like this looks like a low dps key overall

[brittle bronze]

hi im a fotm reroller from vengeance demon hunter, is the nerf noticable in keys for people that tried it in na?

[grand plinth]

not rlly

[brittle bronze]

good enough for me, gonna 2 button my way to 285 ilvl once i get my demon hunter capped this week, thanks

[warm tundra]

scrolled up 10 lines, didnt see it. any change to m+ build for today

[unique oyster]

It's a 15, I was testing it

[hollow beacon]

seems like raze is the play now to make up for dps loss?

[lament dock]

Where's your math for that

Or is this feely crafting

[hollow beacon]

Oh i dont do the math, thats what you discord nerds are for!

[lament dock]

Then where did you hear that Raze is the play

Or are you making shit up

[lucid otter]

so.. how bad druid will be, we will need to go back to apex?

[lament dock]

No

[grand plinth]

me

[lament dock]

Well, who are you?! 😉

[verbal stirrup]

I saw at least 2 guys on utbue that main it saying that we might switch back to raze and apex..emphasis on might..both of them are at 3.9

[grand plinth]

I was running Raze before the changes

My thought was that it was better prio than running the full meme shit

While still giving you some aoe

Going raze is not about the nerfs though

That build looses slightly less relative dps though

[verbal stirrup]

I hope it comes down to personal preference. I dislike raze xD

[grand plinth]

Basically you were exchange 1 extra thrash per min(sundering) and some mastery with raze

and they were about equal in DPS but I liked the prio of raze and it gave me more ST

since I was using maul/raze in ST

You can play whatever you;d like they're very close

[verbal stirrup]

I hope so

[grand plinth]

I was like the rank 5 druid before every swapped but im still like rank 3 or 4 NA or something

[lament dock]

Oh, I was teasing Bry ❤️

[grand plinth]

ooooh

hehe xd

IDK I dont wanna presume

[lament dock]

Fair enough, nah mad respect to you

[main pelican]

i’m definitely swapping to bry’s build, one week of meme build got old super quickly

[reef nest]

Is there any reason to take Persistence instead of Front of the Pack if you are DotC with Wildshape Mastery ?

[grand plinth]

Yeah its just benefit stacks

[reef nest]

I like to run 5% faster tho

[main pelican]

the speed from that talent doesnt stack with all sources of move speed ):

[proper slate]

I tried out going back to EC with apex and raze in a lowly +10 and it wasn't bad. It hurt giving up certain talents for it tho... especially the one that turns overheal from FR into a shield

Overall damage seemed lower for sure

[reef nest]

If you want to use the apex, looks like the best way to do it is to go razeless DotC

[vapid heart]

Any clearence on HOW the Nillhammer works? Need to finish on main first to drop on alts? Drops anyway after the quest?

[vague sage]

Unlock quest is account wide

You get one free shard per account as well, so be slightly careful with that

[vapid heart]

4 Mplus and 2 delves later, no drop on alt still

[proper slate]

Apparently LFR is a decent chance for a shard to drop

[candid knoll]

How are the nerfs feeling in high keys??

[vapid heart]

seems so

[vernal fog]

its over....hibernation season begins

[candid knoll]

https://tenor.com/view/uk-police-officer-screaming-no-noo-gif-3163377484734570206

[vernal fog]

https://tenor.com/view/hybernating-sleeping-sleep-well-napping-gif-5888253

[unique oyster]

It feels more comfortable playing with the claw on the Apex, although I don't know if my echo should do more damage

[grand plinth]

This was just a 10 I did but that all looks right

[lucid otter]

in a 10 you cant be have a right ideia, because u dont need to cast ironfur on a 10

[lament dock]

Bro what is this sentence

[grand plinth]

as long as you dont have any echoes of maul than youre doing it mostly right

[lucid otter]

sry my english isnt good...

On a dungeon +10 you cant a the right idea of overall dmg. +10 druids dont need to cast ironfur

[lament dock]

I mean, Bry could probably link you a 22 doing similar or more DPS

[grand plinth]

I was just helping him with his breakdown really

Overall is gonna vary from key to key and run to run for lots of reasons

But yeah 113k overall is really low for put

But overall scales with key level

Thats why I wouldn't try to look at overall in general

you wanna look at key%

[strange blaze]

How bad does taking moonfire and not red moon hurt raid dps

because I am worried about the gather on Chimaerus mythic

[grand plinth]

you only need to gather the one dude

everything else should be brought to you

and if they dont they're trolling

You're just not gonna be able to run around and get enough aggro on each individual mob

The little guys also dont melee that hard

I usually never end up even tanking them.

[torpid yoke]

should i always have 2 Embelish items?

I've been using 1 currently, and i'm getting closer to capping my crests so now i need to spend wisely. i always just picked up a mythic arcaneclaw Spear to replace the one embelish i do have (mythic crafted weapon with embelish). should i downgrade bis stat bracers to a crafted pair, and what would be the 2nd offlsot?

[hidden nest]

Should i use Voidcore on my weapon or gaze

[proud urchin]

weapon, then farm more and do the trinket :>

[hidden nest]

kk

[pallid charm]

is the raid build still the same as the pinned ones? after the nerf we had today

[verbal mantle]

I did it chat, first time tanking in any M+ season and it was all in pugs 🥰

[torpid yoke]

gratssss

[verbal mantle]

ty!

[glossy mauve]

Is EC still just Thrash>Lunar Beam>Moonfire even after nerf?

[humble quartz]

And does it still work as no apex? Or I need to get my apex talents back after nerf?

[hasty stratus]

lunar > thrash

[verbal mantle]

no apex is fine, both are competitive with each other now

at least I feel fine in the keys I did tonight

[hasty stratus]

did you notice any less survivability?

[humble quartz]

Ty, going to try it then.

[verbal mantle]

nope, there were some shitty groups that kept wiping and i was the only one not dying

[hasty stratus]

Nice

I just got 3600 right before eu reset

hopefully wont flop pushing resil 18

[verbal mantle]

I read earlier in this chat that most of the healing we lost would have been overhealing, idk if i understood correctly

[hasty stratus]

makes sense

almost half my heals are just overhealing

[torpid yoke]

i mean, i'm still steamrolling mid keys

literally never feel in danger

[rain dawn]

does anyone know if the voidshard are only 3 total? or will they drop forever

[crimson ivy]

Im getting mixed advice on secondary stats, I have some telling me I should stop gemming Haste at 20% Haste, and some saying I should wait til 30%, anyone have any feedback here?

[fallen robin]

Sim yourself.

[red knoll]

i wanted to parse on vora tonight so i asked to take the boss first and did my opener, box, beam, co tank didnt taunt and i died in catform x.x

[vagrant kestrel]

LETS GOOO @torpid river THE GOAT BROKE 200HRS

[red knoll]

anyone elses Ravages hitting for like

a lot less

echos i mean

my ravage echoes are doing less than my fucking razes rn

[hoary dagger]

I'm seeing conflicting info in recent comments - using EC build, do we use Mangle/Maul in ST?

[torpid river]

https://tenor.com/view/byuntear-react-cat-gato-staring-gif-8802024263211486290

[quaint pond]

only 4800 hours more to go

[topaz sparrow]

nope

[random mason]

is there any real changes to the talents after the nerfs??

Im still playing ec

[red knoll]

this is actually false stop telling people

that

it is a gain in st

with 4 piece

[hoary dagger]

ok so only mangle in ST?

[rustic kestrel]

I tried only mf and then realized my incarn timings were like 20-30s longer

no ty

[rustic kestrel]

From what I've tested, maul is only a gain in single target if You are running Killing blows and only mauling on tier set procs

If you need short burst it will be better, but over a fight worse

unless you have what i listed above

[halcyon jackal]

is there a bug with bear ? I am pulling side trash just by clicking on them

[rustic kestrel]

If you are targetting a mob that you arent with combat in, and you get a waking nightmare proc it will pull

[halcyon jackal]

would it proc with just mouseover ?

[rustic kestrel]

I believe its just because whatever you're targetting is what WN will go for

so mousing over shouldnt

[fallen robin]

Post a log and we can find out.

[grand plinth]

I've heard people say that it can pull without them targetting

But I think its people just not realizing they did

[fallen robin]

I would love to blame WN for a 4 pack pull in Seat instead of myself or other people.

[topaz sparrow]

Undo the nerf

[red knoll]

and reduce your damage?

lmfao

or your mitigation

[fallen robin]

Sure go for it (it doesn't work so simply, but lots of people really wanted to make US happen)

[quaint pond]

it is more damage just not worth the big defense loss

[fallen robin]

Think I only use that talent for Mage Tower to hit the guy in the puddle without shenanigans.

[red knoll]

yeah i meant mitigation

was thinking of a different talent

[quaint pond]

funny enough it'll buff wn too

[topaz sparrow]

im trolling but at my key levels probably worth it

[hexed trench]

think its time we summon the unholy disc to make blizz undo our changes

[halcyon jackal]

bear feels significantly weaker after the nerf T.T

[true oyster]

Maybe at a higher level it’s noticeable , but at 19s didn’t feel much diff

[marble garnet]

so who are these 5 assholes that got us nerfed again lmao

[hexed trench]

Im trackin em down now

flood em with small dick pics

[red knoll]

god i feel so weak in raid now

[marble garnet]

im still bursting in openers and CD's in myth raid but that was totally uneccisary

i cant spell so w/e

[red knoll]

yeah sure

but our overall

its pretty ass

unless you're having full uptime

[hexed trench]

I'm sitting here trying to do the first pull in a 17 AA and Im just flopping

[red knoll]

monks just mog us with uptime

[hexed trench]

coulda been the priest healer

never been a fan

[forest flume]

Seems like we need another thrash nerf

[zealous stag]

What ilvl are you?

[hexed trench]

285

[marble garnet]

blizzard is on some beastiality shit with how much they been fucking bears this season

[red knoll]

im 288 doing less damage than when i was 284

[zealous stag]

While you have incarn in the first pull, you should be entirely safe. Frenzied regen every 5 secs to keep the buff up if youre EC and have reinvig, keep ironfur running perma on at least 1 stack (2 if dotc)

[marble garnet]

the nullk trinket is a good swap in for plume for AA pulls

[zealous stag]

You shouldnt need other defensives with incarn

once incarn is down, barkskin and SI will tide you over. Pull shouldnt last more than 1 min 30

but you have tons of kit to deal with it

You can also save wild guardian for amped ironfur and healing, effectively another defensive cd if youre running apex

[marble garnet]

you could sac some haste for more crit btw

more dodge is always a plus

[zealous stag]

What talent tree you running?

[grand plinth]

I assume your stacks are getting too high

[red knoll]

i think my favorite thing is gaining 4 ilvls and feeling weaker

even as dotc

[void wind]

you can always meld the dot to reset the stacks

[red knoll]

uh

[olive hare]

Who wouldve thought 4% worth of ilvl doesnt make up for a 7% nerf, thats major rocket science

[zealous stag]

You're using your 2 stacks of SI within the first 20 secs of the pull, during incarn. That means you have nothing left for after other than barkskin. You're gonna pop if you dont stagger defensives properly in that pull. SI is best saved for when youre in danger and taking damage from bleed stacks

[red knoll]

i just dont get why hit dotc at all

[zealous stag]

(I found some logs)

[oblique moat]

[drifting fable]

hey there, does the 298 weapon increase our dmg?

like the DPS?

or just the stats?

[zealous stag]

Both

There's a reason why a weapon is the single largest DPS increase in an item for any class/spec

[drifting fable]

okay so is it a significant increase form the DPS? for the thrash build? any numebrs on how much of a dps increase it is?

289 to 298 = how much % increase from that weapon

[sage dagger]

sim it

[drifting fable]

ok

i will

[zealous stag]

It's flat damage affects your melee attacks (if melee). The weapon has a base damage outside of stats too

And stats are just a flat dps increase too

But yes, simming is your best friend

[jade forge]

Boys, thoughts on macroing iron fur into thrash? Good, bad, or doesn't matter?

[zealous stag]

Bad imo

Because ironfur isn't the only spender you want to spend rage on. Even if you're playing EC

You're gonna starve yourself of rage and be unable to cast frenzied regen

Which is your strongest self heal and panic button

[drifting fable]

its a great idea, you will get frenzied regens off before you get 40 rage

imo

im doing 20's atm and not having any issues with it being macroed

[hexed trench]

ooof when was that log from

today?

[onyx tinsel]

where u get 298 weapon??

[zealous stag]

A single global can mean life and death, and the macro runs the risk of starving you

Just bind it to scroll wheel if you want something like that

[zealous stag]

Not sure. Let me check

[hexed trench]

I haven't been dotc since the changes a week ago lmao

but yeah

[zealous stag]

Fri 24th April. So a few weeks back

[jade forge]

I'll try it out to see how it goes as I'm working the bear alt up key levels. If I feel I can't confidently get regen off I'll ditch it then. Thanks for the info

[hexed trench]

some times I panic and sometimes I lag with this shit net I'm currently on

but I get whatcha saying and thanks for the advice

[zealous stag]

Totally get that for sure. Things feel spicy and your instinct is to pop a big defensive

It's getting the muscle memory and knowing what you can handle

For EC, you want to bark skin prior to pull as youre at your weakest when you're starting a gather

Try and get IF you and rolling as soon as you can during that window, and then you incarn

[hexed trench]

yaeh so like on the AA first pull Ill starfall and start gathering with moonfire and wait for the mobs to get a bit grouped before popping barkskin

[sage dagger]

incarn should be the first button you press once they are gathered

[zealous stag]

I typically pop barkskin before I even collect the first lasher

And use that time to build up a bit of rage to get ironfur rolling

Then once gathered, incarn and start thrash rotation

[hexed trench]

is it worth even prepopping incarn as EC in AA?

[sage dagger]

no

[zealous stag]

Nope

[rustic kestrel]

only if you are running apex

[hexed trench]

right for the echo charges

[zealous stag]

If you're purely moonfiring to gather, you're not going to have rage to get ironfur rolling once everything is together

And you're gonna panic defensive to get ironfur up because you're getting hit so hard

Build it as you gather

Without ironfur, you will pop

[hexed trench]

so I should be trashing in between moonfires while pulling

[zealous stag]

Yep

[hexed trench]

barkskin after starfall is active

and pressing incarn asap

[zealous stag]

Nono,once gathered

[sage dagger]

is moonkin HotW even good? ive never had threat issues on gathers and never played it

[zealous stag]

Eh

[warm tundra]

any build change in m+? asking for a friend

[zealous stag]

It has niche uses

[sage dagger]

i feel like its 2 talent points i could use elsewhere idk

[tropic jolt]

hotw is good for other stuff too used in cat

like the bird burn

[rustic kestrel]

If you dont feel the need for it, cat hotw is better damage profile

[sage dagger]

yeah i know the question wasnt about if HotW is good

its whether its worth taking moonkin form to use it there

[zealous stag]

I don't feel it's worth

Only has a niche use on very large pulls with lots of aoe

But at that, you sacrifice a good chunk of boss damage

And bosses are where keys go to die

[sage dagger]

im working on resil 19s and have not had a use for moonkin yet

dont really see that changing tbh

[tropic jolt]

honestly lets say you do the academy first pull, if you just get used to the pull pattern and use incarn to reset thrash u can do like 4 globals in a row where 3 of them secure threat on mobs coming in, u shouldnt need it

[hexed trench]

pre thrash changes I was having aggro issues honestly

[sage dagger]

yeah idk the only time i lose aggro on AA pull is if a dps starts blasting during gather

and at that point its not on the tank

[zealous stag]

Paladin blast Is enough to rip aggro

But other than that you should be fine with aggro generally

[sage dagger]

i havent had it happen yet

[rustic kestrel]

that one you should 100% moonkin hotw

so your dps can hit faster

[zealous stag]

I've had it happen to a few brews when I was pugging feral 19s

Execution sentence, lasher aggro, pop

[sage dagger]

i mean theyre just hitting lashers

whats the point

[hexed trench]

something like this then?

obv take the starfire talent off

[sage dagger]

not lashers sorry whatever the little guys are

[drifting fable]

am i seeing this right? .9% upgrade from my 289 to a 298 weapon?

[vocal hare]

whats a good haste, vers, and mast % to have for 18+ keys?

[drifting fable]

what is upgrade order for 298s?

[zealous stag]

Weapon, trinket, most likely

[tropic jolt]

weapon, best trinket, worst trinket

[zealous stag]

Again, sim it

But yes, in AA everyone's focus should be the prio target. Starfall is negligible; thrash is more than enough

[covert stone]

Is Solarflare good for guardian?

[grim verge]

any talent changes since the nerf? or the same still?

[olive hare]

Its one of the better stat sticks yeah. Still sim it though and think about what you will spend your future Bonus Rolls on

[covert stone]

Is the puzzle box good for M+?

None of the first is using it

[quaint pond]

don't use bloodmallet

[blazing gyro]

i dislike it for M+ but it could be useful for some, perfect for raid though

ooof this or a extra bonus roll or gemsocket

[olive hare]

For Apex builds its still very strong, for no apex less so because the build being less burst centric.

And yeah as Gas Said, bloodmallet is a No-Go. Just Like Archon, Murloc etc.

[white sentinel]

I've been using the Globule for a while. Not much love in Trinkets for M+ I feel.

[covert stone]

Its just i feel they take what they loot on murlock:

Like is the solar better than the heart?

Or worse

[olive hare]

Normally I'd say trust the robot always, but its a little iffy since the robot needs a custom Input to sim no apex properly.

[covert stone]

I feeel robot is wrong for tanking. I prefer a discussion. I want something balance between dps and defense. I will probably not be able to get the gloom since i hate raiding.

[olive hare]

Rly depends on your statt distribution.

[blazing gyro]

ive been alnseer hero and heart myth (2/6) for a while, i use the curiass at champ (havent seen the hero one yet) if i feel something will slap me harder

[covert stone]

Can we push a heroic item to 298? or is it only the mythic track?

[quaint pond]

only mythic

[covert stone]

That changes everything

thanks

[blazing gyro]

hero would be pushed to 286 i think?

[quaint pond]

ya all it does is add 9 or 10 to your current item

depending on rounding

[grim verge]

How much mastery do you guys run?

[olive hare]

Gearing for defense aint a thing, defensively bear likes all stats equally, second to ilvl

[blazing gyro]

trinkets can be defensive(curiass, globule, egg and gloom spat) or offensive with things like gaze, puzzle and heart which is where defensive gearing comes a thing

uhg why is there not a AGI version of mark of nalorakk stam and almost the same amount of main stat as the worldsoul one

[hexed trench]

@zealous stag @sage dagger thanks for the tips just did a 17 skyreach and felt 100x better than previous dungeons

[tidal tulip]

Hello guys

Am I supposed to have a quest to farm shard for weapon/trinket upgrade ?

[blazing gyro]

yeap

[tidal tulip]

I finished this but I see nothing afterwise

[blazing gyro]

oh fun they didnt fix that bug

[tidal tulip]

wdym

Like if I do a +10 there i don't get a shard ?

[drifting fable]

does monk buff benefit my thrash eventhough its arcane?

[quaint pond]

no, the debuffs are one of the very few rare cases still remaining where it actually goes by damage type

[formal stream]

Hi, I have the Crit/Versatility 2h weapon from Academia in my vault. Looking at the sim, the bis weapon from Maisara isn't that much better. Is it ok to pick it and upgrade it to 289 (since I have a 250 weapon) ?

[oblique moat]

any myth weapon will be good

[blazing gyro]

do you ahve the ascendant voidshard if so farm away

[white sentinel]

Void charger drop rate doesn't change till tomorrowr ight?

How do I know if I have it

[formal stream]

I hadn't thought about that. Since this character was a gatherer, it can buy 8 nebulous voidcores.
If I use everything in Windrunner, I should also get the weapon (which is better in the sim).

[blazing gyro]

however are there better items to burn the cores trying to get

[formal stream]

As a casual player, I don't think substats should matter too much, as long as I have a mythic weapon.

[ivory stone]

I think my bear set is around 280 still rocking a champion track weapon good times

[blazing gyro]

ive got the algethar staff wouldny have minded the otehr one but as you say any myth is better than champion or even crafted#

[formal stream]

I think Windrunner should be the best option if I don't have any mythic gear.

[fallen condor]

how are the bears

[blazing gyro]

true a pretty nice trinket (heart) and the weapon there

[oblique moat]

they don't matter very much even for more serious players, maybe the guys at the very top are minmaxing it but stats can easily be made up elsewhere with gems etc if your sims tell you to

[blazing gyro]

the difference between stats is around 1% at best on the weapons, im focusing mine into NPX atm for the rings due to there cantrip and then its either wait for a mythic chim kill or keep farming for puzzle for the apex build

wooo ultradon on the vendor

[late thistle]

How are people finding survivability after the reset? Worried I'm going to have to learn to play now 🙁

[south rock]

where fine. We just need a healer now in higher keys

[viscid rover]

are we still playing EC noapex build? or did it change? 🙂

[noble locust]

BAER good

[pallid pecan]

[humble quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/wave-bear-bearwave-gif-5435322

[fallen robin]

Some people are some people aren't. Personal preference

[narrow parrot]

EC noapex and DOTC razeless are bascially the 2 games in town right now

[granite iris]

Is Jelly Replicator any useful? Iam running both windrunner trinkets atm

[fallen robin]

We have build diversity and generally it's not going to hold you back.

[fallen robin]

It does 0 damage and isn't very strong defensively.

But if you want a random proc shield trinket that will also give you a tiny cheat shield, it's the only option.

[granite iris]

🫡

[orchid herald]

How is DotC right now?

[narrow parrot]

Razeless DOTC is very good

[gleaming pagoda]

thats sad

[upbeat otter]

hows the treat doing now? anyone tested it?

[gleaming pagoda]

threat is fine

[upbeat otter]

thats good to hear thanks

[orchid herald]

How does it compare to EC no Apex? Would I be looking to DotC in raid and EC in Mythics? Or is it preference?

[gleaming pagoda]

I think no apex is still the go for m+ atleast

[narrow parrot]

CgGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgZmxswMjZWMLzwMLLDYZGGNRzMziZmZmlxMMAAAAAmhZsZAAAAomZZWmZmBAwCzMAWMDGwittBAzsBD

gnome is using this build

I am using something similar

[orchid herald]

Oh shit he takes Boomy too. That's pretty dope. The more shapeshifting the better

Does gnome do any content? I only see his build on murlok and that site says he's running EC No Apex

[daring nymph]

i mean ya

its overal pad

and people tend to gravitate to big overal numbers and ignore useful damage

[daring nymph]

hes one of the best bears rn in the game

[orchid herald]

Yeah that's why I was hoping he has a youtube or something

[orchid herald]

What's the benefit of entanglement over vortex?

[edgy merlin]

It's for Seat first boss slimes. You don't need vortex in that dungeon and mass root is better on first boss (lower cd, better effect)

[abstract raven]

Looks like he’s the only 1 gaming atm coz they are all still playing EC bulid

[coral oak]

Did you find a good build mister gnome ?

[young blade]

https://tenor.com/view/signedearth-bear-beastmode-angry-bearcharge-gif-8868622409980691086

[orchid herald]

thanks

[odd ibex]

Ís anyone still running Puzzlebox? I have Heart of Wind Mythic and Gaze.. idk if i want it from my vault or just take myth chest to finally upgrade that to full ilvl.. Sim obviously says puzzle box but i mean .. it seems nobody is really using it in m+ anymore?

[abstract raven]

Pbox in raid yes Pbox in keys hell no

Gaze + plum/Hart

[tacit venture]

Heart of wind until I get Plume

[odd ibex]

Thats what i thought .. hmm alright thanks

Probably wont be raiding on the druid but good to know

[abstract raven]

Hart at myth probs better plum Heroic but your sims will say yes or no

[tacit venture]

Now that thrash was nerfed, I reckon the Plum will have a "better" use though because we have somewhat lower shields from UF

[sterile apex]

Is the thrash nerf numbers confirmed? On eu my thrash tooltip is still ~12k which it was also yesterday

[fallen robin]

Yup

[sterile apex]

It's 150% now?

[abstract raven]

Bry is playing around with Feather for incarn window for more Trash

[fallen robin]

Not quite sure where this number is coming from. Overall you're losing 7-10% damage depending on your build in M+. See the pins.

Oh nvm they never added it.

They took whatever number your Thrash direct damage did and multiplied it *.75.

Tooltips lie

[tall drift]

what is the best way to pull the 3 packs before Vexamus in AA, without taking 400 backshots within a second cus you are trying to get the pack at the back?

My boyfriend is new to playing Bear and he wanted to try, long story short, he got straightup oneshot within 0. 7 seconds. I really want to give him advice, but i have no idea how you're supposed to play it. He had 3x ironfur up he said, and obv didnt swap forms mid pull.

[grand plinth]

This is also largely because I have it I would run Heart if I had it instead

[abstract raven]

Yeh they where just saying run plum coz hast not as good as It use to be but not factual

[grand plinth]

Yeah this was true

Before the trash changes

When echo was 90% of our dps haste doesn't buff apex

But now that thrash makes up a good portion of our dps haste has gone up in dps value

[raven briar]

I use Survival Instinct when I try gather pack there and when I plant: Incarn.

But he should also bank rage from previous pull to smooth it

[rose harbor]

@tall driftPlay with heart of the wild , boomie form at the center , tag left vile lasher and the one in front of u with moonfire , then hotw then bear form barkskin and run on the right one

[tall drift]

so you kind of, want to chain? from the spitting dragon thing to the vexamus add pull

[rose harbor]

Ah mb tought u spoke about first , for vexa just go barkskin

[tall drift]

Before Vexamus, not overgrown ancient :)

[rose harbor]

and pull slowly

[tall drift]

that annihilated him

im afraid i did not log

[rose harbor]

he can stack ironfur on the 2 ravager

before pulling the battleaxes

usually i have 2 stack of iron fur and barkskin , still getting ripped coz this is not an easy pull

have to kite a lot here

[abstract raven]

Yep!

[still locust]

Plume is also a 1 min rotating trinket, and we're on a 30/60/120 second timer so it's extra good if you don't desync from it

[tall drift]

well we just got into 10's for the first time, atleast for him its the first time, and he was only 240 ilvl, dont think that helped either

however im really happy that as soon as i told him to go at his own pace instead of trying to satisfy the dps, the tanking has been a lot better

[rose harbor]

tell him to play this way , in 10's u dont need to take whole platform on vexa

but y thats ilvl gap here

[rose harbor]

Isnt guidon better for syncing incarn ?

[tall drift]

he just wanted to try that pull, didnt work out, it happens, making mistakes is the best way to learn, and in a 10 limittesting is quite forgiveable, especially in a weekly

[tall drift]

im just afraid hes gonna get too used to my healing, where healing a 10 with 276 ilvl is literal cake, especially on disc, just perma shield people and they wont ever take damage in a 10

[still locust]

Plume isn't an active, so doesn't really compete

[rose harbor]

Just get him some ilvl on 10's he will tank it without prob

[tall drift]

is this part of a whole route or did you make this rq?

[still locust]

It also depends on if you send incarn ON COOLDOWN (very few people do this)

[rose harbor]

ahh u speaking about the beloren one

[still locust]

Most people play it on a roughly 2 minute timer

[tall drift]

yea i told him to go do the voidcore quests so he can start rollin myth :)

[rose harbor]

tought u we're speaking about the ws

[tall drift]

hes working on it

[still locust]

If you send incarn THE MOMENT it's ready (sub 2 minutes) guidon is slightly better than emberwing feather

But if you're playing on a 2 min timer, emberwing is better

[rose harbor]

i have guidon and emberwing, dunno which one i should take tbh

both seems fine

i kinda use incarn on cd when i know i dont rly need it after

[quiet kite]

currently running myth feather+gaze, my vault has a a prism in it, is that better or nah?

[halcyon jackal]

interesting, when I checked logs before the nerf, bear has higher erhps number than brew. yet, people say bear didn't need healing

[still locust]

I would check a log and see if your "on cooldown" is every 2 minutes, or 1:45 or whatever we can get incarn down to in m+ these days

[trim plaza]

is it more worth go 2x FC or 2x FoN on single target for DotC

[rose harbor]

Idk how to check that i'm bad at reading logs

nvm i checked , i use it every 2 min

[zinc hill]

Oh do people usually hold Incarn until feather comes off cd?

[still locust]

Well depends

[trim plaza]

yes and no

[zinc hill]

Idk I had the same mindset of “Incarn is less than 2 minute cd so why wouldn’t guidon be better”

[still locust]

Yeah but do you get effective use out of it sub-2 minutes?

Last time I had this discussion, I went to check some very high keys

And they use incarn mostly on a 2 minute cadence

If not longer between for big pulls

[still locust]

Simmable, but if it's for raid with red moon FoN most likely wins

[fresh schooner]

So with all if the changes and nor taking apex talents, does the rotation change significantly? I can’t seem to reach the same kind of dps as before the thrash buffs and nerfs

[trim plaza]

ye i simmed, thats why i asked xdd

thought this was baiting me

[still locust]

If red moon, FoN wins. If twin moons I believe FC wins

[pearl warren]

Same

[fierce saddle]

Hello everyone, how noticeable is the nerf? And are there any notable talent changes because of it?
Thanks everyone.

[still locust]

We still have 6-ish viable builds, same as last reset

The thrash+MF spam build lost a little bit more value than other builds but is likely still fine to use

For overall damage in keys, it's about 7-10% dps nerf, and EF nerf is minor if not just irrelevant

[fierce saddle]

Ok thanks 😊

[terse raptor]

but anyone that does high keys can they say if they felt the nerf?

[midnight flint]

Yo, can EU get 100% shard drop rates from m+ 10 and up already

[still locust]

Not from what I've heard

[umbral axle]

Hey First screenshot are my actual trinkets second are my vault not realy sure what best to use in m+ ?

[still locust]

If they're all hero, I would stick with what you have

[umbral axle]

yes they are

[limber smelt]

did anything change with last patch for our rotation or so ? or we still doing everything the same

[still locust]

Nothing changed. If you were spamming thrash and MF, you can keep doing it (but it's not recommended in here)

If you were mangling, that's also good

If you were mauling, that's also good

[limber smelt]

okey

[abstract raven]

What I am rocking

[still locust]

Double passive is alright too, but I would probably recommend an on-use

[abstract raven]

Doing fine damage wise lol 😂 did a 99 in a 18-19 did today so 🤷‍♀️

[olive hare]

I mean. We cant pretend that nopex is pad overall and eats the group's funnel and recommend using an on-use trinket at the same time 😅

[lime apex]

someone can tell me why i dont see the voidforge even if ive done the quest building the voidforge?

[topaz sparrow]

word is new apex talents are centered around convoke

[copper hornet]

Erm, do u have a world quest at that spot

Helping decimus build a weapon or whatever

[elder obsidian]

No chance. Swapping one burst to another sounds like ai slop

[lime apex]

nope

[elder obsidian]

Relog, restart, swap characters and other standard things?

[tall basin]

why no one uses?

[frail bison]

i was looking at icy veins and bloodmallet and according to that I got rerolls on AA for the puzzle box. Just to find out nobody on murlok from the top guardian druids ever use puzzlebox. Why is that?

[past olive]

https://tenor.com/view/the-office-steve-carell-no-please-no-god-no-gif-5938426

[elder obsidian]

Wdym? 17/50 top bears use it

[elder obsidian]

When you want to use it? While pulling or when everything is pulled?

[past olive]

You should sim it not looking at cookie cutter stuffs

Puzzle box is good for burst damage but has a reasonably long cast time of doing nothing to be able to get the mastery it gives you

[tall basin]

this is the haste versa belt what hey use. bit this belt what i send is crit versa + some fancy proccs on it

[elder obsidian]

Oh, ok. Silksomething is better than this proc

[topaz sparrow]

get ready for some bearvoke

[edgy merlin]

New apex will turn convoke into a 30 second channel with a 45s cd

[rain trellis]

hows bear feeling after nerf? still runing 0apex build?

[deep cobalt]

when?

[quartz valve]

https://giphy.com/gifs/avengers-hawkeye-dont-give-me-hope-Qy2VKY3xlI1QyR6Ix5

tbf tho, it would make sense for it two work with both Incarn and convoke

[grave lodge]

Is not raiding a big disadvantage gear wise? I could pug hc raids to get a shot at gaze etc. but I don't see a chance at going for myth raiding. So the only source for myth items will be m+.

[daring nymph]

isnt bear convoke

like

bad?

cause it can cast like 109201921 ironfurs

and not do anything else

[quartz valve]

I run with it on low keys for weekly just for fun of pressing that button xD i would say, that i dont see high IF stacks gain, 3 was top, typically 1-2

[shut jasper]

convoke is decent st nowadays

[quartz valve]

also burst is very nice, but again - low keys only, where You run with undergeared grp that ask You nicely to not overpull xD

[shut jasper]

but it's kinda carried by red moon afaik

without it it's back to meh

[quartz valve]

Its defo, worse than Incarn, tho with nopex, all these extra thrashes and moonfires do reduce LB cd, so it helps with uptime while i'm sending globals into mangle/raze

[halcyon jackal]

are 2 two points into reinvigoration really bad ? the extension of FR and stronger regrowth + rejuv doesn't look bad to me

[trim plaza]

its a strong heal and synergies very well with NR

[lime apex]

didnt help

[trim plaza]

50% chance to get gaze with bonus roll and ditn get it, UNLUCKY

[quartz valve]

maybe You started sidequest/world quest for craftign wep in forge area and some phasing is messing that place for You?

[lime apex]

dunno only accepted the voidcores from decimus and his quest a born killer

[quartz valve]

Abandon Born killer and leave zone and come back

[hazy mural]

if u go Reinv, u have to also choose DOC instead of DG since it eats the DG procs and for some reason dosent buff those regrowths

[shut jasper]

wait it doesn't?

that's stupid

[hazy mural]

yh... Nightshade tested it out the other day

[trim plaza]

surprised it doesnt work? im not

[shut jasper]

that's so dumb

[hazy mural]

cause I saw it eating my procs but we didnt know if it gave the buff or not

[shut jasper]

they should just make it not eat the procs imo

in theory eating and buffing would be strongest but

[hazy mural]

Blizz quality

[covert prairie]

any macro for macro for inervate the healer?

[copper knot]

what items would you guys craft here?

[shut jasper]

healer shouldn't need innervate in dungeons, in raid you can focus macro

[covert prairie]

i do 19-20 i think he does xD

[lone nacelle]

Did anyone go into detail about the nerf and how it would impact us?

[shut jasper]

vast majority of bears at the highest keys aren't running it

idk if shammy might need it sometimes but like

mw sure as hell doesn't

[trim plaza]

hot take

if ur healer runs oom in high keys, something is wrong

[shut jasper]

even most ferals don't have innervate talented in dungeons so the top shammies on phys comps aren't getting it either

[uneven flame]

if my rerolls on windrunner spire hit today i will literally have 0 heroic items equipped

[night field]

inshallah

[leaden ore]

sooo what talents are viable now? same as before?

[wet ivy]

So i gues insted of only nerfing elune trash we also get clow build nerfed aswell, what bliz can do just compleatly change the apex in to somthing else that is not so fuked to balance around each weak

[hazy mural]

likely what is happening is they arent using their efficient heals well enough and having to resort to expensive spam heals just to keep up

[hazy mural]

basically same as last week but slightly less damage and less shielding from UF and less overhealing from EF

[leaden ore]

aight

[covert prairie]

he just rerolled to monk so yeah

[hazy mural]

they also can drink tea

and they mostly need to use mana when they cant too much

[ruby fossil]

hey guys, just started guardian druid and saw on guides to go haste vers, but alot of players are using mastery items even though they its supposed to be our worse stat, is it cause of the changes made when it got buffed?

[hazy mural]

all stats are very well balanced tbh... u just wanna go for ilvl and haste more preferred if ur doing the thrash builds but all stats pretty good

if u wanna min max the most, u have to sim every gear u get

[ruby fossil]

ah ok makes sense then

[frosty karma]

I really dont want to raid, I have a myth emberwing and heart of the wind, do you think those are a pretty decent top alternative?

[hazy mural]

its good enough, yh

only non raid trinket better u can easily get is the one from Skyreach

[frosty karma]

appreesh

[half surge]

guys.. in theory.. whats better - crafted 285 with embelish or 289 mythic>

[hazy mural]

long term it will be x2 emb on cloak and wrist as they have lowest stat budget and max ilvl wep

[half surge]

i have crafted cloak/boots as they were lowest ilvl i had at the moment.. worth recrafting to bracers later?

[hazy mural]

honestly shouldnt matter too much till we get infinite crests or else u might lose out trying to change stuff

[plucky laurel]

prolly asked a lot here but what would be the best dungeon do spam your bonus rolls for a freshly 90 fotm reroller bear?

[hazy mural]

windrunner spire

[half surge]

windrunner

[half surge]

gotcha, thanks

[hazy mural]

1 wep, 2 good trinkets and 3 tier slots

[plucky laurel]

great, ty!

[trim plaza]

just remember to be guardian loot spe

dont roll on feral spec

so u skip those shit dps trinkets

[hazy mural]

yh, dont be dps there, 2 shit af trinkets for dps there

[plucky laurel]

will do!

[near scarab]

Hello fam, any updates? Do we still spam thrash and moonfire?)

Dont see any pinned sims or smth ((

[frozen pelican]

is the no apex thrash spam build still viable or is raze also in the meta now

[coral rampart]

you mean everytime you cast frenz regen with reinv talent it removes DG charge from you?

[trim plaza]

both no apex and apex builds are viable, play what u find most fun

[earnest wadi]

another vault, another week of choosing to get the extra bonus roll

[hazy mural]

yep

the regrowth from it counts as a DG stack used for some reason, and dosent even buff that regrowth

[coral rampart]

ok thanks, will adjust talents then! Hope they fix it soon©

[hazy mural]

should be fixed in 10-12 business years with Blizz timelines

[elder obsidian]

They'll fix it only if it overpowers brewmaster

[brisk sedge]

Unless they got jealous about other player to fix like yesterday

Oh damn we need to fix it's too fun

But take 3 weeks to patch monk so

[zealous stag]

Glad we could be of help 🙂

[uneven flame]

i got mythic head-piece so now i have full mythic st piece 😎

ig my arms are heroic

but thats 5-set anyways

[earnest wadi]

sweet gz

[near nymph]

guys help me please. i will not kill the bird in mythic this season. i have a heroic plume with leech in the vault. is that with an mythic alnseer my best trinket setup or should i go for things like heart from windrunner or guidon from imperator in mythic for second trinket?

[late sleet]

hey guys

looking to start playing guardian. Figured I'd come here to ask about the state of the spec and if it's fun to play?

[viscid rover]

fun is always relative 🙂

[pine thistle]

Hi. In M+, when using the new HOTW you gain 5 combo points in cat form. What do u do with them ? Bite does no damage and we dont have rip...

[late sleet]

alright then what about the viability?

[polar terrace]

nothing, pretend they don't exist

[viscid rover]

viable

[knotty pine]

Guardian lets you be a bear and maul things. No other class does this, therefore guardian is best, it's just simple science.

[late sleet]

ok

[late sleet]

fair enough haha

[pine thistle]

Ok thanks. Should i keep rake up all the time during a boss fight in m+ ?

[still locust]

No

Rake is only used with fluid form to get into cat form for heart of the wild

Rake itself does very little

[viscid rover]

?

[pine thistle]

so hotw is now just a little burst to use every 2 min on a boss. Like just press it and thats it ? Its sad

[still locust]

Yes

Go cat (or moonkin on big aoe if you want to) then press hotw and swap back to bear ASAP