guardian

[trim hinge]

Alchemists also tested PFAS for 75 years before starting to find some weird shit in it

[quasi gull]

https://giphy.com/gifs/spongebob-meme-imma-head-out-ight-PkLPBuyozY7F31wCxF

reading these messages helps me understand what my father feels when he looks at me

[mystic zenith]

pls dont tell me what you screened there is holy

[trim hinge]

Time to go for some milk

[dense latch]

https://youtu.be/dmMir0U3J98

[zinc parrot]

oh noes nerf to guardians! are we still going to be tier S?!

ima go grab my bag of cheetos

[still locust]

Lmao the website asked me if I wanted to go to the danish shop site, and it went to the german one anyway

[still locust]

We'll be fine

[trim hinge]

If S stands for Stable flat line in neural activity yeah we do

[olive hare]

We do have some longterm data on their stuff, my wife has a whole Rack full of their stuff. Instagram addict you know. Always binge buys stuff when Lemon ice tea or or those chunky flavors are on sale

[quasi gull]

why dont you play chess on the side while you time keys

[zinc parrot]

stable flat line u mean heartbeat wise

[fossil burrow]

i predict a 10% loss of casual tanks, making weekly 10s avaraging a 5 minute longer "que" timer

[mystic zenith]

probably more then 10% considering the rerollers probably stop just cause

[trim hinge]

Because I love having a low maintenance mecanic tank who can selfheal, heal friends, do some roaring shit and have time to joke with my guilidies while pushing and thinking about how I'm gonna adapt their third bodypull in my route

Which in some way is kinda some chess shit but against destiny and fatality rather than another dude

[olive hare]

Imagine all those bear trainhoppers trying apex builds next week and getting a reality check. Those pug keys are gonna be hilarious from a heal alt pov

[still locust]

I doubt many people swapped to tank for this bear stuff, I imagine most people were other tank specs swapping over

They will just swap back to their old tank

[mystic zenith]

oh i can assure you they do

[fluid gust]

have you tried holy? ^^

[still locust]

Or stay and enjoy the bear

[still locust]

[mystic zenith]

i have had 5 bears pop up in my guild

[trim hinge]

Bear good anyway

[still locust]

No, I'm not much of a priest main

[mystic zenith]

all dps players

[fossil burrow]

BM hunters are easily scared when there is more than 3 buttons involved

[fluid gust]

no.. you know.. the pulver/syrp for drinks 😄

and why my code....

[still locust]

I don't, is it just called holy?

googling holy is probably not going to give me the results I want

[mystic zenith]

no

holy energy

[fluid gust]

holy ist first hit by me on google 😄

[mystic zenith]

or smth

ye because you saw adds from it on yt or smth

[still locust]

Hmmm

[fluid gust]

www.holy.com

[olive hare]

Tried the pina colada from holy, its decent.

[fluid gust]

no kidding 😄

[still locust]

Alright found it, looks like it's still caffeine stuff and I'm not interested in cardiac arrest from chugging 2 liters

[mystic zenith]

im pretty sure theres something shady going on there too. there is no way 90% of german youtubers get sponsored by this and it wont become a dumbsterfire at some point

its like raid shadow legends

everyone does it

and it happened before with a german energy drink producer

[still locust]

Was about to say

Funny that 2 companies mentioned are both German and looking very mass-flavour produced

[mystic zenith]

yea coincidence

wonder how holy could afford so many youtubers in such a small time frame

[fluid gust]

you pay with money from others ^^

[brave delta]

You have do be more specific between Pavkleader and Dark Ranger, the DR has 4 buttons to smash 😂

[fluid gust]

lik a loan

[mystic zenith]

surely not history repeating itself

[fossil burrow]

im sure there is no harm, when was the last time a large number of the german population was swayed by questionable retoric

[still locust]

Fairly common tactic to operate at a loss to build a userbase

[still locust]

Yeah but thank god nothing like that can ever happen again in any western-based country

[atomic glacier]

It's okay to stick to the "top players play bad builds and pushing high rio only requires time and not skill" instead of trying to roleplay has a high rio player

[mystic zenith]

yea but not this much no? i mean they hit the mainstream youtubers before they became popluar and they must be expensive

anyway if you like it dont get discouraged by me

im just a bit cautious

[still locust]

Which did you say was the sus one?

Holy?

Or both?

Because Holy looks a lot more complicated to figure out what I want, unless I get a 57 flavour variety pack

Zerup from MoreNutrition looks more straight-forward

[mystic zenith]

the other one is confirmed sus, holy is just a shot in the dark by me 😄

but they dont operate anymore i think

the confirmed sus one

[dawn summit]

Hey guys, does anyone know how I can get people to mount me on travel form?

[still locust]

No I meant MoreNutrition mentioned by Tazzer

[dawn summit]

for some reason ppl cannot jump on me

[still locust]

It's a specific stance from a glyph you buy in moonglade/dreamgrove

Teaches you mountform

[dawn summit]

aaah

[still locust]

And then using specific travel forms you can be mounted

[mystic zenith]

no idea

[fossil burrow]

other tank discords when they get nerfed: "Here is a flow chart of all the things that could potentially change.
bears: "so about this german supplement site"

[still locust]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[olive hare]

There was some Business controversy surrounding morenutrition iirc, but nothing product related , only regarding Business stretegy. Like sueing other competitors for copyright infridgements while doing the same thing.

[fluid gust]

Yeah we got 1 nerf, we know its will come

so what? :d

and Blizz say they will change apex, but we dont get infos

on that

[still locust]

It's a fairly straight forward nerf: EF nerf is largely irrelevant, thrash nerf is about 7-10% damage nerf and same-ish to UG shielding. Builds remain the same, everything is viable

[mystic zenith]

More Popular Dps discords when they get nerfed are not even readable because they go so fast

[fossil burrow]

it was a play on bears not giving a single shit about anything and just happy to play bear

[brave delta]

As a German I call Afri Cola, no need for energy drinks when your Cola has already 25mg caffeine per 100:ml

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afri_Cola

[still locust]

Only hints that it would "fix pain points", so probably moving power out of incarn

[mystic zenith]

or fritz cola

[worn geode]

This spec is F tier now rip

[still locust]

F for Fucking Fantastic

We're still the only spec in the game that gets to be a bear

That's a huge W

[olive hare]

Tbh i think both the shield and trickle healing Nerf will be compensated by the previous overhealing. There was a ton of excess left even in 20+ keys.

[sharp gale]

F for Fotm

[worn geode]

Theres 4 specs that can be a bear

[still locust]

The other 3 don't like it

[fluid gust]

yeah go monk panda

[still locust]

They always complain

[mystic zenith]

unless they can cheese a mechanic with it

[still locust]

Nah they'll still complain the whole way

[mystic zenith]

my guilds resto keeps bragging about how he can stand in Midnight Falls Mythic Glaives and not die while in bear

[fluid gust]

yeah bear is so a bad def cd.. you can do nothing relevant in this time you stand in bear 😄

[still locust]

[still locust]

I mean

It's actually an insanely strong defensive

[brave delta]

When I play another class and I have a Druid in group, I ask them to go in bear for prisma so I can play as bear for 5 minutes.

[still locust]

With a very large downside only really seen in other specs with their real immunes

[fossil burrow]

TBF we get 4 extra dance emotes (depending if you spec into the forms or not), there is always going to be hatred toward bears

[still locust]

Get them near a puddle of water for prism on aquatic form

Always good, no matter which aquatic form it is

[worn geode]

That was a fun few days, what tank are we rerolling to

[still locust]

I'm just rolling onto the other side and staying bear

[fluid gust]

go DH

[random solar]

yall guys think its better to coin Winderrunner or seat for a fresh 250 ilvl teddy bear wind has trinks+wep but seat has all most all gear options on mythic track

[still locust]

Fresh char, probably WRS

[brave delta]

Have to try this, sounds funny 😉

[mystic zenith]

windrunner has alot of tier too

and seat has alot of bad items no?

[still locust]

Personal fave is obviously axolotl, but amirdrassil goldfish also goated

[still locust]

Seat is flooded

It's also an alright place

But WRS (or AA if you want to use puzzlebox) is better

WRS has 3 tier slots, a weapon and 2 good trinkets

[mystic zenith]

ye

[still locust]

AA has 2 weapons, dunno how many tier slots, and a good trinket (if you like it)

[mystic zenith]

the neck in wrs isnt bad either

[still locust]

It's alright

[honest vine]

Sounds fun do you enjoy playing them

[still locust]

But vers isn't that good right now for bear

It's perfectly fine to have vers, but it's nothing special

[olive hare]

Plus wrs has a decent follow Up with Nexus, only 1 overlap iirc

[still locust]

Haste, crit and mastery generally edge ahead of vers IIRC atm

But it's a small edge

All 4 stats good

[mystic zenith]

ye but i was thinking of if you happen to bonus roll it then you wouldnt feel like you got a bad item, which probably happens in seat

or aa

[still locust]

If you're a fresh char, no bonus roll is a bad bonus roll

Unless you get duplicate in the same slot

Ilvl >>>>>>>>>> any other consideration

For 99.9% of gear

Except like the MT jelly trinket

[worn geode]

Normal boss bonus roll is bad

[still locust]

[still locust]

You can't, bonus roll is heroic and mythic only

But yes, heroic bonus roll bad

[fluid gust]

i dont know on that, strawberry is not my flavor, but hazelnut is nice 😄

[still locust]

Either +10s, or mythic raid

[still locust]

Ye but look at the image, then my pfp

I'm not a super strawberry fan either but...

[fluid gust]

i know i know 😄

[worn geode]

Never done normal didnt know that

[mystic zenith]

yea but i wouldnt feel particularly happy with the seat trinket

[red knoll]

Seat trinket gets so much hate when its genuinely good

[lone flare]

anyway, what's plan for the new thing this reset

insta use on weap?

do we get spares?

[still locust]

I don't even know what seat trinket is lmao

[lone flare]

multiples? wat do?

[still locust]

Myth weapon first no question

[mystic zenith]

this guy

[still locust]

We don't know how 2nd use works

[fluid gust]

what i read is wep and trinkets

[still locust]

I suspect farmable like cata charges after 4p

[fluid gust]

not more

[still locust]

Well it's weap and trinkets only

Start with weapon

[still locust]

Oh this trinket is really good for uncapped aoe pad

And decent defensively in the same situation

It's awful on lower target counts

[mystic zenith]

oh great, the one thing i hate the most

[still locust]

[fluid gust]

and Head/belt will be in the new raid on 298

what i found on screenshots atm

[mystic zenith]

i am the guy who plays a full st setup on a aoe pat boss like diurna in DF S1 if you remember

[still locust]

Yeah

[lone flare]

the main thing I'm thinking about is if I should keep trying to get into a myth chimerus

and using bonus rolls on it

and getting weapon

[still locust]

Did you do it when thorns of iron was added

[mystic zenith]

yes

[lone flare]

after i upgrade my maisara myth weapon

[still locust]

Do you have gaze mythic?

[lone flare]

i do not

[still locust]

Then keep doing chim myth

[lone flare]

hero plume, hero guidon rn

[still locust]

Gaze is VERY strong

Plume can be better

But subject to keeping to the 1 min "timer" (variable with out of combat time) burst-wise

[mystic zenith]

i played rogue in that season so no

[still locust]

Wait, diurna. I read dathea

[mystic zenith]

the egg fight

[worn geode]

@red knoll

[still locust]

After toi was added it was the best pure ST build for raid, so I tried it on dathea prog

[mystic zenith]

not the elemental

[still locust]

I was top dps for the duration of BL and incarn

Then plummeted

But it was funny

[mystic zenith]

[still locust]

And by funny I mean the rotation was fucking awful

Good riddance to toi

[lone flare]

keep trying you mean, LFG is misery if you didn't rush it early for CE X_X

[still locust]

Real

Your best bet is doing it on reset day, that's when most of the good gamers pug it

[mystic zenith]

pressing something that is meant to be defensive as an offensive ability is always awful for me

unless its touch of karma. that one can slide

[still locust]

I mean the idea behind toi is very cool

Like the BDK bone shield damage but without the caveat of needing to be hit to trigger damage

But the implemention meant it was always going to be spammed if good, or ignored if bad

[mystic zenith]

like brambles but iron fur

i guess

[still locust]

Yes

Exactly

[plush fern]

What parts of set are we using for catalist?

[fluid gust]

i like thorne dmg its fun to run in arpgs trhough enemys and all die.
but to spam this button is anoying

[still locust]

Any to get 4p ASAP so you can farm charges, then you can figure it out later

[still locust]

If only it was like thorns, like brambles is

[still locust]

We generally like haste a little bit more than the other 3 stats, but all 4 stats are good

Prio ilvl, and having 4p unlocked/equipped

[fluid gust]

yeah when IF is up enemys will take dmg when they hit you.
no extra stack modifier and it will be fine, when the numbers are fine

[still locust]

Problem is, that's just brambles Basically

[fluid gust]

yeah ^^

[still locust]

But brambles and toi could be combined

[fluid gust]

and i dont think that IF need a offensive talent. its a def skill and its does a great job

[still locust]

Well, brambles, toi and the new 5% mastery talent

So you get brambles (maybe buffed a bit) while IF is up

[still locust]

I do think it can be challenging for new bears to intuitively figure out when to IF and when to maul

So I would personally like a rework of our rage spenders to make it clearer

[mystic zenith]

i think its always a bit of a trap to do things like that because someone will always do something stupid and for example stack up everything into a dmg amp just to not have anything avaible afterwards and just die. Its not that of a big deal with IF but maybe with bigger cds

[fossil burrow]

i am very curious on what they intend to do with the apex in the future

[still locust]

Same. I'm hopeful, since I like the general direction of bear in midnight

[fluid gust]

for me its a good thing, you can go with IF all time and when you know in the 3. run you are safe you can try out new stuff like maul/raze uses ^^

[still locust]

Yeah but a lot of people will never try because they're scared of dying and fucking up a key

[fossil burrow]

I lowkey liked the convoking meta. i got to be a bear and an owlbear

[still locust]

Which is a valid fear, and no other tank has to balance their offensive and defensive spenders like bear does

[fluid gust]

Yeah but i think this ppl dont want to push to 22 and higher so they dont need it?

[still locust]

To my knowledge

[kind seal]

im new to bear this xpac and uh... i'm not great and i just IF on high rage + expected incoming dmg and... actually i dont think i ever go out of my way to maul. fml am i bad?

[still locust]

Need? No. But a cohesive design benefits everyone

[fossil burrow]

doesnt prot war / pala do this ?

[mystic zenith]

thats probably one of the reasons why this no apex talentbuild is so popular. you dont have a reason to press anything else then IF with rage and thats pretty comfy

[kind seal]

... how dare you call me out like that

[mystic zenith]

and FR ofc

[still locust]

Bad, no. But general rule of thumb is (in a build that mauls) "1 IF while tanking something, more IF as needed, excess rage into maul"

[still locust]

Not really, IP you only use to not overcap rage to my knowledge

[still locust]

@coarse blade status report

[coarse blade]

[kind seal]

thats why i liked the older builds with ravage.. 1 IF, spend rage on procs, seemed easier. "ooh shiny proc, press on X rage"

[fossil burrow]

i havent played war since bfa so your guess is as good a smine, but the holy power thing for paladin deffo fits the build of "should i slam or heal"

[still locust]

Thank you, kowalski jakey

[fluid gust]

yeah it will be easyier for everyone. imo i like when its more challenging and yeah im not the best bear here.. by far not! but i like to see that every key im little better

[still locust]

I have a pwar on speed dial

Don't need to guess

[short nest]

I think this mostly arises from it being a proactive mitigation without any clear limitation on uptime

[still locust]

Yep

[mystic zenith]

there was an effort to use the fiery brand cd of vdh as offensive cd in earlier expansions. no idea how it is now

[still locust]

And no clear indication of what "enough" is

[uneven flame]

anyone here need one of these?

[still locust]

No, am bear

Need bear brain

[fluid gust]

and when the "easy safe build" goes to 19 - 20
then the "hard build" goes to 22 -24

[fossil burrow]

having a person on speed dial to rub their faces on whos the better aoe padder is not the same 😠

[kind seal]

I feel like just 1IF i'm never truly 'safe'

[short nest]

Other tanks have a "keep this up as long as you can" stance to proactive mitigation

[still locust]

I think we're heading that direction too

[short nest]

The stacks feel pretty unintuitive when you're new

[still locust]

Current IF doesn't really line up with the design of the CDM, and how they changed other specs to accomodate the CDM

[short nest]

I don't know though, cause at what point do we just become warrior

[still locust]

That's how we started so

[mystic zenith]

always been

[kind seal]

I see people saying dont frez regen often and just spam moonfire/if/thrash but it just feels like im squish without a different cd

[sterile apex]

can't block with the claws

[fossil burrow]

would you guys want the apex to be more "more shape shifting general druid stuff" or "i am bear i only do bear stuff"

[still locust]

As long as bear is fun to play and thematically different, that's good enough

[lone flare]

I mean, warrior literally works the same way, rage is both the aoe frontal cone, as well as shield block and ignore pain

[still locust]

Bear related, actively shapeshifting is a DOTC theme

[fluid gust]

its a hard disign but i want go with more shapeshift

[lone flare]

rage is also excute for war

[still locust]

Yeah but SB you just keep up 1 stack, IP is only to not overcap on rage

Rest goes into revenge and execute

Lot simpler

[lone flare]

true

but still

not THAT far off

[still locust]

True, but that's my point

[lone flare]

ah, fair fair

[short nest]

I think current apex design is fine they just messed up the tuning

[still locust]

Just make IF simpler for new bears

[mystic zenith]

there were times when you just IP'D no matter how much rage but yeah

[still locust]

Less confusion good

[dense latch]

are the nerfs coming going to change anything about the m+ build?

[still locust]

Yep, the buff to 300% was weird and over the top

And caused the 20% aura nerf which caused threat issues

[fluid gust]

nothing changed

only less dps

[sterile apex]

IMO current apex is flawed since we are already omega strong in incarn window. Now that trash does damage all the time we are op. I hope new apex is not about burst damage and buffed incarn but for the rest of the time.

[still locust]

Any current build good, maybe apex builds pull slightly ahead

[short nest]

Who could've thought axing your qa department could negatively affect your game quality and balance

[dense latch]

that's fine. i was doing too much damage anyway

[still locust]

It probably won't be (as) burst based, based on the vague hints in blue post

[fluid gust]

you can never do too much dmg

[mystic zenith]

wouldnt say its been worse then before the qa wasnt there. they always did weird changes

[fossil burrow]

EC no apex feels good in trash packs, lowkey boring in single target bossfights, nerf will still feel good in trash, worse on boss fights, is what i have gathered?

[fluid gust]

my feeling is that blizz dont have dedicated class disigner

[lone flare]

i like the apex thematically, the feeling of going in an all out rage as a feral bear was appealing/interesting

[short nest]

Ok to be fair I have one issue with apex, is how it favors dotc due to ravage being a thing

[mystic zenith]

its a overall nerf to both dmg styles. the feeling will be the same, only the numbers change

[latent atlas]

With the bear nerf we see a mix of brew/bear/prot lets going forward unless they mess with things more.

[fossil burrow]

general rule of thumb in game design is there is usually never a single person tied to a single role. its very fluid and one day you are working on druids, the next you are working on valera bugs in delves

[latent atlas]

Still feel like tuning been wild this season

[short nest]

My main qualm with ec is how it feels too much like dotc but more bland without the proc

[still locust]

Ironically, there's not THAT big of a difference

[pearl lake]

that's not a feeling, that's a fact. We know for sure that the same people work on multiple classes

[still locust]

Ravage being strong is offset by a 200% stronger lunar beam

[fossil burrow]

what i ment is the solo boss fight wasnt super exciting in the first place, it will be a little less exciting with lower numbers

[amber ocean]

Yeah the only real difference in playstyle is that EC presses lunar beam more... DOTC gets to press ravage which is functionally still Raze anyway, so... Eh. They can certainly improve the apex

[fluid gust]

yeah but what i mean is that the feeling is.. 1 ppl does multiple classes and thats its by 5 classes 15 talenttrees.
And i dont think i can come up with so many different playstyles

[short nest]

The stronger you make the apex the more it pushes towards ravage though (at least in my mind, I haven't REALLY done the math)

And even if the math evens out, ravage echo is certainly more noticeable than raze echo

[mystic zenith]

personally doesnt excite me if i do 54k or 60k dps in st(numbers are made up)

[still locust]

Yeah, agree. But lunar beam is a sizeable steroid for EC

And a lot of people forget it

[fossil burrow]

20 seconds longer on an already low energy rotation in single target is worse imo 😛

[short nest]

It's a lot harder to see and mentally add up a million small numbers than "hehe 500k ravage crit"

[mystic zenith]

i mean you will do more if you upgrade your weapon on reset

with the new thingy

or better said the bosses will last less time

because ur dps classes do more dmg too

[short nest]

Give ec Starfall and starsurge as rage spenders and you have my attention

[mystic zenith]

starfall on a tank would certainly be funny

starsurge we already sort of have but not as a rage spender

[merry quest]

At that point you might as well just make them tank in moonkin form as well tbh

[short nest]

It fires off automatically, I don't even see it

[merry quest]

Taking a bit of influence from another spec is fine

[short nest]

If you're trying to change my mind it's not working

[merry quest]

But like 4-5 rotational abilities is pushing it as a Druid spec

[short nest]

I'm even more sold now

[merry quest]

I’m saying at that point you’re not even a bear

If that appeals to you then by all means

[mystic zenith]

for some unknown reason the sound of starsurge is way louder then everything else for me so i constantly hear it

[fossil burrow]

you mean, shadowlands convoking bear? you have my attention good sir

[short nest]

Give it some sort of boomyweave like we have (used to?) catweaving

[mystic zenith]

shifting out of bear is always a problem in m+ because there has to be openings for it

[fossil burrow]

sounds like a healer issue to me

[merry quest]

It’s only a problem without enablers. And right now we have those

[still locust]

I personally think instead of thrash being arcane they could have made starsurge castable in bear form and inherit maul modifiers and cost rage etc.

[merry quest]

Primarily persistence

[still locust]

And that could have been a cool flavour

[short nest]

See you get me

It doesn't feel very arcaney to maul stuff

[still locust]

Well EC isn't all arcane

Same way DOTC isn't all physical (flavour wise)

But WoW could stand to take some inspiration from things like the new D4 talents where you have more ability overhauls, even if just for thematics

[short nest]

I do feel dotc has a much more distinguishing flavor, not just because it appeals to me more

[mystic zenith]

i never really got why they didnt update the visuals of thrash when taking that talent

would look funny

[sullen cove]

Any one on NA did testing yet? What does it look like, guardian, brm or some other tank sneaking the top spot?

[short nest]

I think it would be sick

[short nest]

Is it even live yet?

[fossil burrow]

you mean like how feral gets their bite turned into ravage, maybe moonfire could get a proc that turn into starfire?

[red knoll]

Bro its not even live lmao

[sullen cove]

In NA it would be live no?

[red knoll]

No

[short nest]

Weekly reset is not for a few hours still

I don't remember if we have long maintenance

[sullen cove]

Ah ofc. I just tought 24 hours earlier

[red knoll]

No its not 24 hrs

Its a lot less

[sullen cove]

Makes sense

[short nest]

But you're waiting for ar least ~3h for live testing still

[red knoll]

And then there's the beta testing

[spare otter]

2h

[short nest]

Live paid beta 🙏

[mystic zenith]

its like 7-9 am in NA right now no? that would be very quick to have a new meta already

if there is any (doubt)

[red knoll]

Its maintenance in 3 hrs

[short nest]

It's 9am for me and I'm 1-2h ahead of eastern time depending on whether or not they have daylight savings up so no

[red knoll]

And it lasts at least 2 today

[mystic zenith]

they dont have maintainance in the morning?

[red knoll]

Its in the morning for pst

[short nest]

Blizz is in cali right

[red knoll]

Ya

[mystic zenith]

ah my bad

[red knoll]

Cali or Washington i never remember

[mystic zenith]

i know its 8 am in new york but i didnt know its 3h between cali and new york

[short nest]

Well they're pacific time which is what matters in this situation lmao

[short nest]

Wide country

[red knoll]

I dont think many people understand just how large the US is lol

[mystic zenith]

yea i know theres alot of time zones but i really dont care enough to remember since you can just google it in 2 secs

[red knoll]

It takes 3 days to cross country for most people

Unless ur flying

[dusk zinc]

At first I want excited to play this thrash/moon fire spam build as one that does mainly 10-12's

My group walked into a 16 AA like yolo and double chested it

So nerfs are warented

[short nest]

This hits the meme rotation harder than the "real" one but we'll see

[lament dock]

Yall could have done a 16 before the buffs. Guardian buffs didnt magically give you 4 key levels unless you were woefully misplaying the old build

[red knoll]

Eh

Debatable

[still locust]

The +200% on thrash definitely helped, since it also buffed UF a lot

But we're still at +125% (presumably) after next reset relative to last reset

[dusk zinc]

Didnt say I prob couldn't have. We just sent it for shits n giggles
Shit was laughable my healer was bored

[red knoll]

I think many people had a similar experience

[short nest]

I'm not a huge m+ enjoyer so this season being as easy as it is made me even more miserable

I tend to avoid higher keys since I find it boring when the increasing difficulty is just numerical

[fluid gust]

Blizz ist in cali ^^

[surreal ridge]

sooo what is the build we going to play after the nerf? we are dropping Elune’s Favored now?

[fluid gust]

USA can look at china - big country and 1 timezone 😄

[red tartan]

You might like dps more. I’m enjoying my uhdk way more than bear

[short nest]

I tried that, unfortunately not 🙁

[still locust]

Likely, but all builds we currently have will continue to function

But the EF nerf is fairly irrelevant

[surreal ridge]

im playing the wow head build atm

[still locust]

It was already overhealing a lot, and now it will just overheal less

(and heal less when it doesn't overheal, but not hugely so)

[burnt sandal]

Maybe drop sundering, maybe drop waking nightmare. Elunes favored is still pretty good.

[surreal ridge]

what do i take instead of nightmare and sundering?

[short nest]

Give it a few hours for people to test stuff out

[burnt sandal]

I’m personally gonna play nopex EC with raze and some other damage talents to start

[surreal ridge]

can u share the import?

[burnt sandal]

But yea someone smarter will figure out optimal stuff. That being said you can kinda vibe unless your spec is atrociously off

[pearl lake]

I find it unlikely that build will change if it sticks around

[short nest]

Crazy thought but what if we take some of the apex lmao

Like just one point

That'd be funny

[pearl lake]

if you change it at all, you're probably going back into raze stuff

[short nest]

(I don't even remember what the first point does)

[pearl lake]

1st point is giga bad

[short nest]

Ty sir

[still locust]

You could, it's not too disimilar in value to sundering roar currently

[trim plaza]

Pretty sure sundering is just dead after reset

[short nest]

That's so funny to me lmao

[still locust]

It's a little bit less value from lower value of thrash reset

But it's about as dead as it is now

Meaning if you want to run it, you can

[short nest]

It already wasn't all that great right

[still locust]

Yeah

[burnt sandal]

Something like that. Not sure if we end up dropping waking nightmare but if you do ursols warding or the FR talents

[still locust]

It's not amazing

[pearl lake]

we're not taking sundering because it's super strong, we're taking it because in that build all our other talents suck worse

[still locust]

If you're doing no-apex you're probably keeping WN, not many other decent talents

[burnt sandal]

With thrash tuning I wonder if 1-2 points apex will be a thing

[still locust]

Like that's really the problem with no apex

[trim plaza]

I would argue dropping GoE into 5% mastery in IF but after that its good one

[burnt sandal]

But yea someone will test it

[still locust]

There's just not a whole lot of value in the remaining talents

[still locust]

They're very similar overall value, in general

Can do either

[surreal ridge]

i saw a druid playing

[pearl lake]

I'm 99% sure apex is 4 or 0

[burnt sandal]

With Raze build it’s easier to dump more into rage with duration but it’s a preference thing

[still locust]

Yes, almost definitely

[pearl lake]

the last point is like all of the value

[still locust]

But you could drop a low value point like sundering for 1st point

And point 2+3 are good

[trim plaza]

True that too

[pearl lake]

you can - but then if you have 3 points - are there really not 2 talents worth less than 4th apex point and raze? I find that unlikely at best

[still locust]

Yeah that's the problem

The main "issue" with no-apex is just that we almost get the points we want anyway

Which is why picking up sundering is good for no-maul versions, it's still not a good button but there's nothing else to pick up

[trim plaza]

Last time i said we dont lose anything talenting 4 apex talents someone got angry "WE LOSE ALL TRASH TALENTS" like bro what

[old roost]

Hello there, sorry if this has been asked and replied to already, was trying to find it. How big do we think the nerf is? Will it change anything?

[pearl lake]

you def lose stuff switching 5 points into apex + raze

[odd cave]

is the magic damage reduction that bad?

[trim plaza]

U still get the double FC which is the most important one

[still locust]

Ursol's Warding?

It's a big old nothing burger

[odd cave]

yeah

[teal moat]

guys i got a noob question cz ive started tanking recently, but im struggling with memorizing the routes im getting, is there an addon wherei can track as i go through the dungeon

[still locust]

It's between 4 and 8.5% magic DR

Usually only around 6-7% ( )

It's never going to be a reason you're living something

[unborn dock]

I played this last week, for apex enjoyers I think it's pretty solid with EC.

[odd cave]

what about the 2nd point in reinvigoration?

[pearl lake]

What else are you dropping tho? Sundering and WN are decent to drop, but then you need to drop 2 more points in the last gate for apex.

[odd cave]

the thing I dont like about sundering roar in no apex it feels like it doesnt do much outside of incarn and if you're holding it for incarn you are missing a lot of uses

[trim plaza]

Good one, u can also throw both reinvi to after the wildfire and reinforced fur for better barskin

[still locust]

This is basic EC apex

[hazy mural]

best u can do atm is screenshot the route u have and put it on ur 2nd monitor

[trim plaza]

Brambles atleast is complete meme

[still locust]

Only a choice if you spent more than needed in 2nd gate

[hazy mural]

A trick I use if im not used to a route is I do the route on normal mode by myself to get used to where mobs are and how to pull em

[pearl lake]

you can't drop brambles for apex

[trim plaza]

U can?

[hazy mural]

heroic if normal is too easy and everything gets one shot

[pearl lake]

apex is in the final gate

[trim plaza]

No shit

Bruh

[odd cave]

you can turn on lindormi's guidance at the keystone NPC

[trim plaza]

Ik

[still locust]

I know the default no-mangle no-maul build picks up an extra point in the middle section, but not recommended

Even if some t3 talents are kind of bad, they're generally still stronger than t2 talents

[trim plaza]

Also just FoN, atleast 1 point, u can keep 1

[still locust]

So you shouldn't be able to swap brambles to apex

[dusk zinc]

This is what I used for my first ever 16 with zero problems so from 12's as my highest

[unborn dock]

After the wildfire is so bad, and tbh I feel really tanky with these talents, I don't really need the extra Dr ATM.

[random solar]

MDTguide allows you to resize the window + it auto updates to move to the next pull

[pearl lake]

Then yeah, 15% less damage on moonfire, thrash, and lunar beam is a pretty significant thing to lose.

[still locust]

It's not bad per se

[trim plaza]

Yes that is bad, but u need it for reinforced fur cause pathing xd

[still locust]

But you can swap it out if you don't want reinforced fur

[teal moat]

does it show my route or basic route

[hazy mural]

just a route blizz cooked

[trim plaza]

Thats what we played before so ye

[odd cave]

just the default route

[hazy mural]

not every good if u have a basic understanding of routes tho

[pearl lake]

sure - doesnt mean it's not a significant tradeoff and that you're not losing anything, dude.

[teal moat]

ill check out mdtguide

[brave delta]

Or you use this https://keystone.guru

[pearl lake]

it's a viable swap because apex is strong, but you're definitely losing a lot of value

[still locust]

Flip it around, you lose a lot of value going from apex to no apex too

[hazy mural]

just not a big fan of the graphics... it confuses me xD

[trim plaza]

Cant have everything as they say

[still locust]

So it's not really a useful point to bring up

You always trade stuf back and forth when changing builds

That's just how it works

[brave delta]

Yeah I wish we could rotate the graphics there.

[teal moat]

this is for making or find a route its not abt tracking ingame no?

[brave delta]

No tracking ingame sadly.

[trim plaza]

Its always kinda the trade off u either get passive arcane dmg or u go full into raze/apex

[teal moat]

am gona check out the MDT guide

maybe its nice

and im wondering does everybody in this game use platter ?

[pearl lake]

This is the context of the conversation. The entire point he's defending is the claim that we don't lose anything talenting apex. That's what the discussion I've been having is about. We do lose a significant amount talenting apex - which is why both are viable.

[teal moat]

im a pvper so ive never really used it but i struggle with threat tracking

[trim plaza]

Or u just go razeless DotC and ignore arcane dmg totally which might be a really good build next week

[pearl lake]

it's a big tradeoff, and a roughly balanced one.

[still locust]

Yeah I think we all agree, we're just talking past eachother at this point

[torn depot]

btw @still locust i've done some testing with EF and also ysera
they both double dip on mastery

[short nest]

I like going through the dungeon alone on a lower difficulty while looking at my route to get used to where the mobs are

[unborn dock]

Why do you need reinforced fur ? I guess I'm only on 18s ATM, maybe in a few key levels i'll reach my limit without

[still locust]

Got a screenshot or log? That's interesting if it's the case

[random solar]

mdtguide is the one everyone wants

[burnt sandal]

Reinforced fur is giga helpful for when you have to start a pack with no IF stacks up

[teal moat]

yeah im gona get this, looks nice

[trim plaza]

I know, but some random guy week ago barked that we lose everything which is a lie, that was my point all along xd not trying to get into argument

[burnt sandal]

And despite doing your best to chain. Sometimes it just happens

[random solar]

it also auto updates and moves on it own when you are done with packs

[hazy mural]

oooh that's interesting

[short nest]

I don't really think about the route I'm taking unless it's seat, pit or caverns though

[hazy mural]

is that a new addon?

[still locust]

It assumes you're pulling perfectly according to route though as far as I know

[short nest]

The others are all very straightforward

[torn depot]

16.77% mastery

[lean harbor]

Someone already mentioned turning on Lindormi’s glow at the keystone npc. Way easier than using a 2nd monitor or doing homework runs to memorize the routes. That was what you would do pre-midnight

[random solar]

iv had it since before midnight

[still locust]

Classic blizz

[random solar]

but dunno when i got it

[still locust]

Mastery

[teal moat]

@random solar i tried mdt helper which is similar but clunky af

[trim plaza]

Bonus armor and bigger barskin is really nice higher u go, im not saying that FR talents arent good, i just like barskin being a brick wall xd

[still locust]

The thing to consider about our t2 talents is that most of them are of roughly equal value, so you can pick whichever setup you prefer

Some like RF, some like reinvig

Some like 2x IF extension

But they're all close enough in value that you can choose which you like

[hazy mural]

Reinv stealing dg stacks is criminal tbh

[still locust]

Does it still buff the healing though?

[torn depot]

[hazy mural]

makes using FR for NR just a pain

[still locust]

Or does it just take a stack without increasing it by 100%

[torn depot]

it does, its basically doc in this regard

[still locust]

Because one is fine, one isn't

[hazy mural]

havnt tested that but id guess it does

[short nest]

I like the 11s ironfur a lot for dungeons, feels super comfortable

[still locust]

If it does then that's fine

No big loss

[torn depot]

but ill double check

just to be sure

[hazy mural]

its a big loss to healing friends tho

[still locust]

If dreamguide heals you for 200% of regrowth, or your friends

No real difference

[hazy mural]

when they take big dam, theres usually something making uFR a lot too

[still locust]

UF after damage taken, DG stacks will have been used then

[trim plaza]

If they die, they die as someone wise said

[short nest]

Wise words

[still locust]

People die when they are killed

[hazy mural]

true... but DG heals are awesome

[torn depot]

double checked it. it does not

it consumes the charge but heals for normal amount

[hazy mural]

we deffo dont need those DG regrowths with FR

[trim plaza]

Lol?

[hazy mural]

[still locust]

GG

[hazy mural]

I feel like if ur gonna go reinv, u simply have to play doc istead

[trim plaza]

Spaghetti strikes again

[still locust]

Yeah, this just reinforces it

[torn depot]

if you manually cast regrowth it will also consume the stack

[hazy mural]

without buffing?

[trim plaza]

Y

[torn depot]

also

[torn depot]

yes

[spare cedar]

Hello guys, do we know how much we loose with the nerf ?

[torn depot]

all regrowths will consume DG stacks, but only the DG regrowth will be doubled

also if you trigger SI and DG at same time with reinvig, it will consume 2 stacks and you get a DG regrowth followed by the reinvig regrowth

[hazy mural]

https://tenor.com/view/hurt-leonardo-dicaprio-gif-7678255

[still locust]

7-10% overall damage loss for EC in keys depending on build, haven't checked for DOTC but just assume 7% or less

[torn depot]

gonna test convoke now

convoke regrowths will also consume your stacks, as expected

[sullen cove]

That seems like good Numbers tho? 7-10% is alot but seems like a fair balance and still on top?

[still locust]

Yeah, it's fine

Apex and No Apex will both continue to be usable

Depending on preference

[torn depot]

so i guess if playing reinvig or convoke, doc would be the better option for the time being

[brave delta]

Plater for nameplates?
I use platynator, very good customization on nameplates and even highlighting of important casts.

[spare cedar]

ty

[red knoll]

For now

[still locust]

How ominous

[fluid gust]

i tried no apex, but i need to change keybinds, MF and IF is on mousebutton so i cant press it at the same time - its nothing for me 😄
i hope the new Apex will be fun 😄

[brave delta]

In before thrash echo 🙂

[grave vapor]

It won't be. It will be a boring (and most likely medium damage) skill

[trim plaza]

"Thorns of iron has returned as apex talent"

[odd cave]

could take 3 points in apex for 6% mastery if you dropped EF

[zealous stag]

They said they'll update to address painpoints. That doesnt mean it'll be a new apex

[still locust]

They said "give us more flexibility" and "alleviate some of the pain points for druids"

The most likely way of doing this, is removing the incarn-hook

Since it being locked as heavily to incarn as it is now is the primary reason it's not very flexible

Even if the 6% mastery and 40% maul dot is always active

[brave delta]

The blue post is:

We have further plans to update the Guardian Apex Talent in a future patch

[still locust]

We'll likely see some form of rework for it

But probably not a completely new one

It's possible, but unlikely

[fluid gust]

yeah and when apex is not linked to Incarn we need a change, when raze/maul always echo its to stronk

[zealous stag]

"We have further plans to update the Guardian Apex Talent in a future patch to give us more flexibility with it and alleviate some of the current pain points for Druids" to quote it fully

[still locust]

Not if the echoes are 10% value

[zealous stag]

again, doesnt mean an entirely new apex

[still locust]

Or whatever numerically makes sense

[fallen robin]

"Give us more flexibility" when half of the problem is people not wanting to press Maul.

[still locust]

Actually, I think the "give us more flexibility" refers to how they buffed apex from 150% to 300% to 200% and they can't seem to find the right balance for it

Doesn't necessarily refer to our flexibility, but flexibility in tuning

[zealous stag]

I, personally, like the apex talent. I dont like 3 button guardian that spends rage on one thing

[still locust]

Same, but I am hopeful about it

They've cooked decently well for guardian in midnight

[plush fern]

hear me out, buff ironfur to 200% increase but you cannot stack it. maul problem is fixed

[still locust]

I have some modicum of faith that they can keep it up

[zealous stag]

Managing resources and understanding your damage taken to know how much ironfur you need, and when its safe to raze feels good, imo

[grave vapor]

It's not terrible to not play a piano

[still locust]

Wdym a piano

[zealous stag]

The alternative is RSI generator, spamming the same 3 buttons

[fluid gust]

its two button more... when you press mangle in EC than 1

[still locust]

The most complex m+ build is still only 2 rage spenders, and 2 primary generators, and whatever CDs you have (usually only LB and incarn)

[reef nest]

It's okay if it feels good for you, but it doesn't feel that way for a lot of people, apparently. And that sould be allowed, I guess ?

[fallen robin]

They have sharply reduced our APM either way

[still locust]

I agree, but I also see how it can be very unclear for new bears when to spam IF, and when to drop IFs to use maul for better value

[grave vapor]

I don't want guardian to have feral complexity

[zealous stag]

But thats the skill cieling vs the skill floor

Skill expression IS nice

[still locust]

When you say that, do you realise how not-complex feral is?

[zealous stag]

AND good design

[still locust]

Yeah but the skill floor is unclear

Maul is our first talent point, but it's unclear when to press it vs. just spamming IF for safety

[red knoll]

Skill expression should be a thing. Its not with current bear

[still locust]

They could work to clear up the confusion and still keep skill expression intact

[zealous stag]

Having the option for both builds is great tbh, but the braindead build shouldnt do more damage, or even be on par with something more complex

[still locust]

Oh I'm not talking about braindead build

I'm talking just regular build weighing ironfur and maul

[fallen robin]

Might be easier if they buff Maul but give it a 45s CD or something arbitrary

[still locust]

Braindead build I don't mind if it works and is viable for lazy/super casual players

[formal plover]

Question for the bears, but I main resto and the bear we have feels hard to keep alive. Looking at logs he has a sub 10 casts of iron fur. That is just objectively wrong correct?

[still locust]

Rule of thumb is 1 IF always while tanking

More if needed to survive physical damage

[red knoll]

I dont think the braindead build should be within 30% of the lowest skill expression build

Tbh

[deft compass]

is it in a raid tho?

[fallen robin]

For raid or M+?

[formal plover]

Raid

[zealous stag]

Oh absolutely but it becoming meta was absolutely a mistake. Hoping these nerfs make the two closer

[still locust]

The rule of thumb? Yes

[red knoll]

Nevermind on par

[deft compass]

no i was asking about the log

[still locust]

Yeah kneejerk buff to +200% was wild

Oh, gotcha

[zealous stag]

I 100% agree with you Shred

[deft compass]

i don’t press iron fur in raid unless it’s needed

so idk

[bright wyvern]

If they're hard to keep alive

Probably a problem

[zealous stag]

I was tanking paldins last night and my monk was baffled i was able to survive a pala hit after a missed taunt swap that hits him for 3.2 million and it tickled me

[still locust]

I'd still give it as default advice

[bright wyvern]

But might also be a "cycling defensives wrong" issue for tank hits

[fallen robin]

Is this bear pressing defensive CDs at the right time or taking everything raw?

[bright wyvern]

In raid

[still locust]

Drop it if you feel safe, but generally speaking you should default to it

[deft compass]

yeah i mean if ur learning for sure

[still locust]

And if this guy is getting clapped, I'd definitely err on the side of IF

[deft compass]

i’m sure most of my parses have sub 5 ironfurs tho

[formal plover]

Honestly not sure, he will go from max health to 20% and die

[zealous stag]

Bear shouldnt be hard to heal imo

[formal plover]

And then its my fault

[zealous stag]

They have a great self heal, and ways to smooth damage easily

[bright wyvern]

If you have a log, we can look over it

[red knoll]

Bears have base like 30% extra healing taken

[fallen robin]

That sounds like not pressing Barkskin or SI

[formal plover]

Lemme link last nights

[zealous stag]

They WILL however be weaker to magic damage

[red knoll]

And you can easily get that up to 70% with cds

[formal plover]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HcLtwCpvq3QTYknr

[zealous stag]

but yes, 1 stack of ironfur perma when tanking, and you, can forget about it when off tanking

[amber ocean]

What did you press for that?

[zealous stag]

good prescident to set imo

[zealous stag]

Honestly, just SI and ironfur

(mythic too)

[amber ocean]

How many stacks?

Currently on mythic pallies as well and I've tried pressing everything on missed swaps and still get hit for 2mil lmao

[zealous stag]

Think i stacked 2 before i took the hit

[amber ocean]

Huh, interesting. i've done an SI + barkskin + 2 IF and still died to it

[zealous stag]

Ive survived it twice now. Once is a fluke but it being repeatable means theres something there

are you running the moonfire DR and the Thrash stack dr?

[amber ocean]

Flashing claws and... i don't remember the name of the moonfire one. But yeah, I am

[coarse shadow]

Do we think the nerfs are changing anything - build -?rotation?

[amber ocean]

Nothing is changing

[coarse shadow]

That’s what i was thinking

[blazing gyro]

nah we will have to not zerg and faceroll but talent wise itl be the same, it might be worth pressing Maul in ST though not sure

[bright wyvern]

@still locust am I seeing that right that in their deepest pull on Lura they have 4 IF casts (6min pull)

[coarse shadow]

Yeah was thinking might just need to actually hit frenzy regen from time to time now

[formal plover]

Thats gotta just be objectively wrong, for playing bear yeah?

[zealous stag]

ill get you the build im running. One sec

[amber ocean]

Depends on the fight but in most cases, yes.

[olive compass]

wait we're not pressing maul in st ?

[fluid gust]

is dmg from lura not mostly cosmic?

[olive compass]

what the fuck is bear rotation

[bright wyvern]

It's HC, you can definitely outgear most of HC at some point, but it's the end boss and he's 277ilvl so that seems a bit early to me to just completely forgo IF

[amber ocean]

Outside of incarn I like to use my rage on IF to keep 1 stack going and spend excess on maul

[zealous stag]

What ilvl are you btw? Im 284

[amber ocean]

Raid or M+? Raid you press maul

[amber ocean]

Also 284

[olive compass]

m+

[amber ocean]

You should press maul in ST

[bright wyvern]

You absolutely should yes

Even with with the braindead build

[olive compass]

does the braindead build change the rotation in any way at all ?

[steel vault]

Can also kitty HOTW for ST

[fluid gust]

okay nvm melee dmg from lura ist physical and all else are comsic

[zealous stag]

This is the build I ran for palas, with DOTC ofc

[bright wyvern]

If you filter damage taken and remove all defensive buff auras, he takes 57 melees completely unmitigated

[amber ocean]

Ah you're doing DOTC. I've been doing EC, the ravage DR might be enough then

Tbh I was wondering if I should be playing DoTC in pallys anyway.

[zealous stag]

I am indeed

[zealous stag]

I feel like you should be yeah

im doing 100k+ overall on them too

You wont get that damage with EC i feel

[bright wyvern]

Thrash + MF spam + IF, use HotW if you're talented in it (please use it, feral frenzy hits hard and is good ST and you need it in this build cuz it's all pad) and Maul on ST if you know you won't need more rage for IF

[amber ocean]

Damn. Ravage going that hard eh? Okay, well, new thing for me to try on next raid then

[steel vault]

The nopex rotation is mostly want lunar beam up, so press LB. Thrash all the time, so presh thrash on cooldown. In betwen thrash, moonfire. So, offense rotation is those 3 buttons mostly. Incan gives you faster thrash, so less moonfire in between. But mostly Thrash, MF, LB. All the time. With ST, can add kitty HOTW, and maul, but, keep thrash up and LB on cooldown. Prior to big pulll, FR for shield, OOMKIN HOTW to gather big pulls.

[amber ocean]

How helpful do you find UF for them? over the extra point in FC

[olive compass]

yea ok so its regular rotation ig

[amber ocean]

To be fair I've also been doing ~100k as EC

But I will try DoTC and see how it goes

[fluid gust]

sometime your monk have 15 less impaled stacks - its a lot of dmg on the other tank when he get second impale
but yeah he dont use if often

[formal plover]

Yeah, I feel like both tanks are doing some weird stuff

[bright wyvern]

Oh ye, every tankbuster hit on Lura puts 5 stacks of a debuff on you

If that ever goes over 5

He's taking 2 tankbusters in a row

So tauntswap issue

[mild goblet]

Hello! I’m new to the this class discord, other classes usually have an announcement channel that discusses changes to the class and updated sim results. Do we have an estimation on the relative impact of the latest guardian changes coming on reset today?

[formal plover]

Appreciate the input, will try talking to the tanks

[still locust]

EF nerf minor if not irrelevant, thrash nerf 7-10% damage loss overall in keys for EC depending on build

Dotc loss either 7% or lower, didn't do math on it

[mild goblet]

Thank you! I’m a bit new to the acronyms.
EF == Elune’s fury?
EC == Elune’s —

[still locust]

Elune's Favored, EC is Elune's Chosen, the hero tree

[mild goblet]

Ah thank you!

[hallow lion]

yo, wondering about 1 talent, Cicle of the wild or Circle of the heavens when playing elunes in m+?

[fallen robin]

Wild

[teal moat]

if u guys had to pick bettween platter and playtenator which one would u say is better

[fallen robin]

Pins has the full explanation

[still locust]

Always wild, the tooltip is not accurate

[steel vault]

in the pin

[still locust]

Light mode user spotted

[versed gorge]

Eww

[hazy mural]

didnt u ask this yesterday? xD

[rustic kestrel]

just looking at a dotc log, around 7.5% so Id say you're on the money

[hallow lion]

Yeah looked at the pin and see why they take wild over magic, ty ^^

[still locust]

😎

[steel vault]

old eyes 🙂

[still locust]

I bet, you've seen a fair amount of things between 1765 and now for sure

[steel vault]

I just keep buying bigger and bigger monitors, but I can't just scroll for bigger txt in disc like I can in browser, so harder in here to get big letters that are easier to see 🙂

[still locust]

You should be able to, actually

Try ctrl and +, or ctrl mousewheel

I'm like 90% sure you can

Maybe even 95%

[rustic kestrel]

maybe if you use it in browser

[olive compass]

yea but i forgor to look at the replies

[still locust]

Discord app is basically a browser anyway

Just packed pc and went on train so can't test myself

But I thought for sure I've done it before

[hazy mural]

[still locust]

This is on phone, granted, but should exist on pc too

[rustic kestrel]

these shortcuts do nothing for me

[still locust]

Yeah but skill issue

Try looking in appearance settings

@rustic kestrel test it damnit

[steel vault]

ctrl mouse scroll changes no txt in my discord window right now. Never has. Does on my browser. There is no plus + button by itself on my TKL keyboard. Pressing ctrl then shift then equal key (ctrl shift 🙂 puts a plus symbol + band does nothing for my txt size.

I've read those discord directions, they do nothing for me.

[reef remnant]

Am on PC and looking, but i can't see a Zoom slider ^^

[still locust]

Hmm weird

Wild if it's mobile only

Classic discord L

[steel vault]

So I just buy bigger monitors and use light mode ......

[reef remnant]

Get yourself a Beamer ^^

[still locust]

I even just found a 1 min guide from january this year

https://youtu.be/p8So6UiZL24?si=gNs9c-PMWO7rHI-P

Wild if they don't have this setting anymore

[shut jasper]

accessibility has a bunch of options

[reef remnant]

You are posting a video of Discord in a Browser. Not of the App

[still locust]

Brother I'm in a train trying to help out a grandpa

I'm doing my best okay

[slim sparrow]

Is still worth playing bear tank after the nerfs tomorrow in high keys?

[rustic kestrel]

naw dude, its COMPLETELY DEAD

[still locust]

Still good, play if you enjoy it

[steel vault]

I am on browser. yes, those do not work on any of my 3 computers, my gaming, my work or my wifes computer. No amount of internet searches that SAY ctrl+mouse zooming actually works on any of my computers. 🙂 Works fine in several different browsers, not in discord 🙁 I've searched, Ive seen the documentation doesn't work.

[still locust]

That's so shit

Let's shut down Discord in protest

[slim sparrow]

Alright! thanks for fast respond i really enjoy it so i was hoping the neerfs isnt a really big deal^^

[still locust]

Like the whole thing

[shut jasper]

wouldn't be surprised it's still considered preferred to brew because mw is kinda silly

[steel vault]

Meh, you'll just ahve to put up with some light mode link posts, all good. 🙂

[still locust]

The thrash and moonfire exclusive build lost a little bit more power than regular mangle/maul builds, but nothing that makes it bad if you prefer it

[slim sparrow]

Yeah!

[zealous stag]

Honestly, didnt process that i had it, but its nice to have with ravages for the extra shield. Could absolutely go for the extra ravage stack

Heres the final verdict i mitigated

one of them

[red knoll]

I wonder if fc is worth taking in dotc after this

Probably not

In raid

[eager stone]

why does this discord doesnt have pins?

like a good mvp guardian telling us what to do now

[red knoll]

It does

????

[eager stone]

last pin is from 2022

wtf u talking boy

[still locust]

It's updated constantly

[red knoll]

Reading is hard i understand

[amber ocean]

Huh, interesting. Yeah, I'll definitely try it and see how it goes

[sweet gorge]

bruh they just update the same pin

jesus

[amber ocean]

Might still be worth

[still locust]

Nothing really changes in this tuning on reset

[red knoll]

Guys

Its fine

Reading is hard

[zealous stag]

wait, this is the wrong one i think, but yeah, ive been surviving them

[amber ocean]

It is appreciated regardless. 😄

[red knoll]

Have you been surviving them on mythic

[amber ocean]

Yeah it's mythic we're discussing

[red knoll]

My guild still on dragons

Cuz we had to skip a few days someone had a kid other illnesses etc

[zealous stag]

I have indeed yeah. Twice survived the judgement final verdict doubleup. Much to my brews chargrin

[forest flume]

?

[still locust]

It's funny to pretend you just called having kids an illness

[red knoll]

I mean....

[amber ocean]

The best thing is - my co-tank is a prot war so if this works for me we can both survive a failed swap 😄

[zealous stag]

We've lost a quarter of our roster over the last 2 weeks 😭 I wasnt meant to be tanking, but i had to fill in mid raid last night and get up to speed in 15 mins

[red knoll]

We had someone crash out over raid being canceled last week so we are currently recruiting a few dps

I hope they trial them in heroic cuz i want to start locking out soon

[remote oxide]

Anyone got a build for m+ taking apex again? Also we talking DotC or EC still? It's hard for me to think DotC will come back since EC feels so much tankier.

[red knoll]

Is mythic skip still 3 kills

Or do you get it in 1

[steel vault]

well, now we can see who actually READS the pins or not. 🙂 Date created was 22, but pin and content were updated this week.

[rustic kestrel]

just quite literally the first set of words in the pin

[burnt sparrow]

yup still 3

[red knoll]

I hate that

Can you skip the side bosses entirely

[forest flume]

we are in the age of AI where people forgot how to use brain

[red knoll]

Or do you need to kill them for paladins

[forest flume]

at least with the new nerf maybe this channel will be healing

(hopefully)

[rustic kestrel]

except the nerf doesnt change anything

[forest flume]

the fotm crowd might see "nerf" and turn around

you've seen this channel in past week, you know most don't have brain

[remote oxide]

Don't you want people playing your spec?

[bright wyvern]

No

[burnt sparrow]

pretty sure you need to kill them

[red knoll]

As is evidenced by yesterday where they were claiming it was dead

[bright wyvern]

Leave us to fester in the shadows

Away from others

Comfy

[red knoll]

Bro the side boss loot table is so ass

[versed gorge]

Hmm new nerf?

[remote oxide]

Dumb people are everywhere, don't think that the gdruid lifers aren't in that crowd too lol

[forest flume]

Sure I want people to play Bear. But I dno't want the "way to play" to be press Thrash and Moonfire and ignore all procs and cool buttons

[remote oxide]

I agree with this, I just don't think you want to be in the state of ignored because no one plays it.

[fluid gust]

i mean you need to kill sidebosses so das dragons landing for the fight, when not killed dragons are over flying the battlefield

[zealous stag]

My thoughts exactly. The idea that you dont even press mangle is degen imo

[steel vault]

Bear has had changes almost every other week. They nerf, un nerf, NERF, then the most recent we gonna change OH SHT BIG BUFF so little nerf maybe we think .... so by now, channel won't believe ANY nerf or buff will last for more than 2 weeks, so there will be no healing. NONE.

[forest flume]

We were in that state from DF S2 until Midnight :p

Bear actually fun to play in Midnight so it was sad to go from that gameplay to........Thrash/MF spam

[rustic kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/arthur-fist-gif-23915056

[zealous stag]

Honestly, apex worked a lot in guardians favour. It added more to it, and gave us damage, even if we werent as tanky as others

That 2 min burst window feels nice

[sharp gale]

Who had that counter about days since last bear changes or smth
Or I guess it was only about spec tree?

[red knoll]

Launch apex was fine and perfectly balanced

[remote oxide]

I'm aware, I've played my gdruid for years. I also understand wanting a more complex rotation. Some individuals in here are complaining about more people simply because more people

[zealous stag]

just felt bad to do nothing outside of that

[forest flume]

oh it's me lol

what should I put in it hmm

[rustic kestrel]

bear.oxez.net

[sharp gale]

Hi u

[forest flume]

i haven't updated since alpha though

[red knoll]

They should've waited for actual data instead of knee-jerk nerfing/buffing first week of m0

[rustic kestrel]

new one should say "did they change guardian druid yet? Unfortunately..."

[forest flume]

I don't think people are complaining because "more people" are playing

[zealous stag]

More people playing is obviously great

The problem is that the spec had no depth and it became meta because of it, and the damage profile the zero depth build brought

[remote oxide]

tbf I was lurking the whole time people were DRAGGING the ones saying no apex was going to be good. That turned out to be gross

[bright wyvern]

Mind you that's not what my intention was when I said no: I meant it more as in "this discord channel has been a mess ever since Blizz has been playing around with the tuning knobs, I want stability and I want a clear identity for my spec that makes it so people don't charge in with a set-in-stone mindset of "THIS BUILD IS BEST AND I WILL NOT ELABORATE " "

[verbal zinc]

See, and I disagree. While I like big burst as much as the next guy, I would rather our apex talents shore us up outside of incarn. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

[bright wyvern]

The whole thing has just been a shitshow

[forest flume]

some people were angrier than others for sure lol

[remote oxide]

I think that's super fair

[forest flume]

is that a word, angrier

[rustic kestrel]

this is literally what it does

but people ignore that

[red knoll]

On launch apex and tuning was fine

No reason to change it

Blizz just dumb

[rustic kestrel]

The amount of times ive incarned a pack, and used apex on the next pack to hold me over has only increased

Its a defensive in its own right

[torpid linden]

how much % nerf guardian got?

[rustic kestrel]

But most people just double tap it, no brain send

and then complain its linked to incarn

[lament dock]

69%

[still locust]

Ye, am monkey

[remote oxide]

I just wish the bottom third of the guardian tree wasn't so clearly "Left DotC, Right EC" and had more mixing options. It makes giving up Apex feel good with the 4 extra points

[still locust]

[mortal wharf]

called the nerfs bar for bar hah

[zealous stag]

See, thats the freedom it brings

[mortal wharf]

last night

[zealous stag]

and i like it

[rustic kestrel]

its INCREDIBLY versatile when someone thinks about it for more than 2 seconds

[still locust]

I mean FC is more value for EC without a doubt

[still locust]

I can't think

[rustic kestrel]

and we're going to lose it because monkey tuning

[still locust]

We don't know yet

[zealous stag]

lets also not forget the mastery, and the fact that maul is always buffed, and the other procs we get from WG

[still locust]

Let's not doom without cause

[verbal zinc]

I just wish it wasn’t tied to our finisher/incarn at all 🤷🏻‍♂️

[rustic kestrel]

true we dont but it sure sounds like it

[torpid linden]

so how much is nerf guys % ?

[forest flume]

They're giving us in Lunar Devastation instead of Wild Guardian

[rustic kestrel]

8-10%

[zealous stag]

like 10% overall

[still locust]

7-10% based on build

[violet holly]

the amount of times I double tapped and dindnt have a ravage proc

[versed gorge]

Huh i always just send wigu for more dam, makes sense to save it for defensive purposes too, it does echo the ironfur and fr too

[remote oxide]

gdruid is clearly fine, number wise

[bright wyvern]

Yo speaking of ravage procs I will say tho

[rustic kestrel]

An echoed ravage is a short defensive too, the shielding and extension of ravage is powerful

[bright wyvern]

Sometimes that bastard loves to blueball

[versed gorge]

Yeah true

[bright wyvern]

Like jesus christ

[zealous stag]

how long does WG remain as a usable button after pressing incarn?

[violet holly]

yeah there are some moments where you are like yo chop chop

wheres the proc

[rustic kestrel]

It would be nice if ravage was more deterministic

I had a 25 s no ravage incarn the other day

[bright wyvern]

Yep

[rustic kestrel]

i was screaming

the statistical anomally

[forest flume]

still more fun than no-apex

[lime hemlock]

Until next incarn is ready

[zealous stag]

Man rolled three natural ones on his ravage check

[rustic kestrel]

Id love to just see "guarenteed ravage after x mangles" or something

[burnt sparrow]

pretty long, on beloren you hold WG to get 2x WG in the egg phase

[remote oxide]

It feels weird that they haven't copied the mountain thane strat of "after pressing incarn the next 2 mauls are ravage"

[violet holly]

whenever ravage doesn't proc

[rustic kestrel]

hes sleepy

[violet holly]

it was fine for everyone else

[edgy merlin]

Just save 4x apex into your potion window in m+. Big brain minmax

[violet holly]

but the dk pov I was rotating /sleep every other cast

lmao

[bright wyvern]

Just a thought: Would you guys be in favour of IF becoming more like a Shield Block thing where it's 1 application where you can extend its duration so you have specific windows to send rage into Maul/Raze/Ravage? Or nah

[violet holly]

I feel like we already have a good mix between having ironfur up and sending a raze/ravage

[rustic kestrel]

I personally enjoy the choice of more/less ironfurs

[shut jasper]

I feel like it ends up playing worse in practice than in theory

[bright wyvern]

I enjoy it more too, but I'm just thinking of all the people that just wanna spam IF til eternity and it just seems bad for the spec as a whole

[violet holly]

and its not like full on dps vs defense button since raze gives uf shield

[bright wyvern]

What if they give it a hard cap of, say, 3, and then your maul button is empowered as long as you maintain it

[violet holly]

I think a simpler build could be viable but at least make the more complex rotation a bit better

[still locust]

I'm fine with current IF, but I'm in favour of making the choice of IF vs maul less confusing for new bears

[rustic kestrel]

that sounds awful

[bright wyvern]

Yeah I'm just spitballing ideas here but this is the crux of the issue

[quaint pond]

i mean, it's not a fundamental issue

[still locust]

If they can make the choice more clear and introduce rotational choice/complexity elsewhere, that would be good

[zealous stag]

When you make something to similar to something else, like shield block, it stats to homogenize all classes, then specs/classes lose flavour and diversity

[quaint pond]

it's noob unfriendly sure but that's not necessarily an issue

[zealous stag]

im not interested in playing different colours of the same tank

[versed gorge]

Every tank has active mitigation tho. Differences come in other ways

[zealous stag]

FFXIV ended up going that route and tanks had to get a complete redesign to give diversity back to them

[bright wyvern]

I think Bear still has plenty of non-IF related flavour tho

Active mitigation is already extremely similar for all tanks