#feral
gray fox
gusty lynx
which keyhight would you suggest going wildstalker instead of dotc
mellow notch
One where u dont have a blue man
sly grove
hunger for battle in seat?
mellow notch
I hunger for rior
mortal hawk
which keyhight would you suggest going wildstalker instead of dotc
whichever ones you want
gusty lynx
yea i know. so more like 20s yea
mortal hawk
otherwise - ws is marginally more st, dotc is marginally more aoe and defenses, neither makes a big difference
same as all the other 20 choices u can make
gusty lynx
okay so if i lack st i just go ws and if we need more aoe i just go dotc no matter the key
just dotc in psiskeys
piss
mortal hawk
if shaman was mandatory to play dotc then all of the buffs would be mandatory always
gray fox
totem
mellow notch
Melee players always complain about not having shaman
cyan marsh
Blame warriors and paladins
cyan marsh
IM pretty sure ret still has BoJ resets on autos
gray fox
it's pretty good for them
cyan marsh
And thats their apex
mellow notch
BoJ sounds like a dirty word
gray fox
bojin my shi rn
cyan marsh
BoJing alleria rn
cyan marsh
Ive outpaced my cata charges on my alt paladin and need to farm 2 more, this is sad
woeful gazelle
gray fox
who did you send that to
woeful gazelle
no one i just found it
gray fox
uh huh
strong monolith
yo guys are we still swiping for ravage while in berserk?... it just sucks if you're in a big pull and swipe 6 times and then the one AND ONLY proc activates....
proc chance is ass
woeful gazelle
no
bite
swipe
bite
don’t just swipe for ravage over and over
i’m assuming
you meant
you’re biting in between
hopefully
strong monolith
thanks i've been ignoring the ravage fishing anyways but I wanted to ask^^
strong monolith
you’re biting in between
I do but on dreamgrove stands we're swiping until ravage procs iirc
strong monolith
I just took a look and it was down in last prio so it doesn't matter 😛
but I just wasn't sure anymore
mellow notch
Is beloren puggable yet
ruby peak
Holy the 21 aa is timed
mellow notch
Are you just running double druid
ruby peak
no
gray fox
Holy the 21 aa is timed
show your raider io timed keys
ruby peak
gray fox
ruby peak
wind jetty
amazing
gray fox
bro progged 21 aa like a raid boss
wind jetty
pit is awfull
mellow notch
Pit is free wym
wind jetty
still an awfull dg
wind jetty
i dont even play with sound on
so i have no idea about the voice lines
i mean, i did ear the krick voice lines
they funny
gray fox
rost
mellow notch
Playing without sound is a red flag for me
dense current
Pit is far from the worst this season
I will do whatever I can to not run maisara caverns. Dogshit place
Glad I simply never need to go there. Nexus point is kinda ass too
Pit is…fine
cyan marsh
I had to farm that place for my hunter's bow, got it on 6th reroll
azure current
Glad I simply never need to go there. Nexus point is kinda ass too
trinket for st bosses hello
dense current
I had to roll caverns 7 times for my trinket
Now I never go back cuz o have it on 16 too
azure current
my condolences
dense current
Ngl my hatred for caverns is tainted by the absolutely diabolical shit I saw pugging for my rolls
I had two separate groups where we had two stacks of the damage buff for last boss after the intermission
I got both of the stacks and the other 4 just ran straight back to boss
TWO groups did this.
molten bear
Holy the 21 aa is timed
left bolt
Idk how the fights work in caverns
But ill take ur word for it that those groups were diabolical for that
sly hatch
Shazer lied to me
i might have said that I need a shaman, and a warrior, and a monk, and a hunter. how else am i suppose to parse #1 ?
mortal hawk
I do but on dreamgrove stands we're swiping until ravage procs iirc
no it doesnt
it just says you swipe (over rake)
mortal hawk
I just did some insane tech
dotc on beloren
die before intermission to get rezed to get killing strikes
@ruby peak write this down
hollow mortar
sounds like u got killed in a strike too
dense current
<:HUH:1115674347865129042>
Like I said man, diabolical
sly hatch
Do paladins even need a shaman
Isn't ret the class with the highest benefit from skyfury?
ruby peak
<@239815114579116032> write this down
mortal hawk
yea
left bolt
I didn't think youd even get killing strikes
vagrant slate
How good is the wowa for this spec
mortal hawk
quite
vagrant slate
I need to optimize my rotation
litty
How much of a dps loss is it to not play around sudden ambush
I don’t really track it
gray fox
2
lyric plaza
I'd need to dig to get an actual number. It's a bit, but it's not gonna be more than 1% I would imagine
burnt hound
How much of a dps loss is it to not play around sudden ambush
Track it as a bar and put an annoying sound on it and then Pavlov dog yourself into not pressing rake when it plays
gray fox
if you waste it on rake it’s basically a dead talent
mellow notch
Isn't ret the class with the highest benefit from skyfury?
Idk cuz i dont associate with paladins
vagrant slate
I mean it’s not like they all go on rake
left bolt
nah you guys seem to think that thinking is a dps increase
burnt hound
Thats what i did
vagrant slate
Litty
left bolt
im pretty sure its a dps loss to prio sudden ambush shred
gray fox
this spec sucks
vagrant slate
Im progging lura atm so i basically only have my single target patchwerk optimization mini game
I’m very close I think
left bolt
sudden ambush becomes more than just a passive x% dps increase in aoe
but only just really
hollow mortar
thinking is a dps loss for feral
lyric plaza
True
vagrant slate
I think the only other thing I struggle with is sometimes overcapping energy at the start of tigers fury
When I get clearcasting
But I think that’s unavoidable
Unless I’m stupid
gray fox
cancelaura clearcasting
vagrant slate
left bolt
lyric plaza
I just trust Crazy meow since they live in the apl
azure current
crazy is the apl
hollow mortar
apl is crazy
left bolt
ya pretty much, its always using shred over rake if u have sudden ambush unless you are in stealth
vagrant slate
It it worse to overcap combo points or delay frenzy
azure current
he does the math very quick every time you sim
vagrant slate
Sometimes I feel like i let it go too long
Then frenzy is 5s off tf
And then it cascades
But pretty rarely
hollow mortar
too bad for crazy i have already calculated the math he will do in my head before he gets to sim
vagrant slate
One in like 50 pulls I might miss a cast due to desync
left bolt
dont concern yourself with something like thinking
it doesnt really matter what you do
proven scarab
can some 1 please explain me how to remove the white alerts ?
mortal hawk
that's me
left bolt
ye u gave me ur profile so its sim profile now...
proven scarab
Why would u want to
I want to atleast move them cuz its so bad when its on top of my char
mellow notch
Check ur addons
lyric plaza
phys comp where
I'm in the same boat, you basically have to build your own with your own key
mortal hawk
mortal hawk
you look good
mellow notch
<:glaught:1343633429333278813>
I saw ur running with bear do you find its worth losing the buff
mortal hawk
dreamgrove or method
brazen bear
dreamgrove that ty
mortal hawk
method good too
bold cradle
I saw ur running with bear do you find its worth losing the buff
nono lol
Dont play wit bear
mellow notch
Was that just for one key
brazen bear
btw, rake vs swipe build thing?
static summit
Isn't ret the class with the highest benefit from skyfury?
7% hi i’m a ret main cosplaying as a cat
bold cradle
Was that just for one key
Monks deserted for bear
mellow notch
Dont play wit bear
Or was i looking at a different cat on YouTube
mellow notch
I see
bold cradle
70% of my keys are pug weeklies
mellow notch
RIP monk meta
Bad times for resto and feral
Its balanced out by the chikens getting extra fucked tho
hollow mortar
i dont care if feral is not meta i just want boomies to be even worse
brazen bear
rake or swipe any better or just depends?
mortal hawk
neither is better
fringe yew
You're better
left bolt
Thanks
dense cargo
holy
dude i think it's a sign
the vc isn't meant to count high again
rufus can retire..
hollow mortar
if we'd have been an hour higher we'd have gotten feral buffs surely
gray fox
it’s time to send rufus to the other side
hollow mortar
never give up and start the grind again
mortal hawk
eating rufus for breakfast
left bolt
??
subtle blaze
he does look very scrumptious
fringe yew
eating rufus for breakfast
He pairs well with a salsa
mortal hawk
yum
fringe yew
Anyone else make eggs in the microwave sometimes?
subtle blaze
i didnt know you could do that
brazen bear
does rake build focus on making sure u got rake on every mob always or just in opener and still perma swipe?
left bolt
hmm
left bolt
does rake build focus on making sure u got rake on every mob always or just in o...
theres nothing special about the opener-- you rake targets that need rake if youre in rake build
mellow notch
i didnt know you could do that
You can microwave brownies too
brazen bear
so prio to not drop rake on any target? does swipe build do the same of just rake prio target and swipe
left bolt
no
youre giving rake too much weight
its not "maintain uptime on rake on every target"
brazen bear
not even in rake build?
left bolt
its "use rake on targets that dont have it to generate combo points"
left bolt
its inevitable as target count goes up that you simply will always have targets that dont have rake, and its correct play
brazen bear
i mean yeah ik, but does one build focus more on rake uptime in many mobs than the other or just same
left bolt
rake build primarily uses rake to generate combo points, swipe build primarily uses swipe to generate combo points. Exact details depends on exact talents and target count
brazen bear
but you keep up rake anyways on swipe build when mobs drop it right?
left bolt
the whole point is that you dont
brazen bear
do you ever rake in aoe? in swipe
hybrid plover
bro
left bolt
only on very low target counts
hybrid plover
lmao
left bolt
also just read a guide
mortal hawk
depends how many targets and what talents exactly
the pin literally explains everything
brazen bear
on it
left bolt
also dru, this is funny, i removed combo point condition on rip for fun and it was a slight dps gain
fringe yew
i didnt know you could do that
yeah i do 3 eggs and 3 slices of cheese. tear the cheese into strips put in microwave for 1min take out stir well. put in for 30 sec stir rinse repeat until done.
left bolt
logically this will still rip at 4/5 combo points most of the time because of how pandemic works
but its still funny
subtle blaze
yeah i do 3 eggs and 3 slices of cheese. tear the cheese into strips put in micr...
y'know what im gonna try that
easy morning eggs sounds bis
left bolt
(:
fringe yew
they ccome out wit hthe best consistency ive ever had and it never fails. just keep going until they are not liquidy and then let them sit for a minute to finish coooking.. they make great burrito eggs
mortal hawk
also dru, this is funny, i removed combo point condition on rip for fun and it w...
I've been doing this already actually
left bolt
that is not going in a guide though, people do not understand how pandemic works with rip
mortal hawk
😎
left bolt
and explaining it is a pain
fringe yew
whats a pandemic and why do my bleeds glow at the end?
left bolt
the glow lies to you
left bolt
it glows when 5cp rip is in pandemic range
4cp rip has a shorter pandemic range
3cp shorter still
and then of course pw is halved
left bolt
no and arguably itd be worse if they did
fringe yew
thats some weakaura shit
modest oar
back
fringe yew
#notmywow
modest oar
what did i miss?
left bolt
everything.
modest oar
shit
left bolt
chomp meta? snapshotting back?
and more
left bolt
nah, im human
fringe yew
no hes crazy
left bolt
yea..
modest oar
damn :l
fringe yew
and tight from what ive heard around the block
left bolt
its true
modest oar
someone tell me were having fun rotationally at least and that the pre midnight dooming was wrong?
cyan marsh
Fun depends on you really
fringe yew
sure bud
modest oar
:l
fringe yew
whatever makes you feel better
left bolt
pre midnight dooming was very on point gonna be real
modest oar
https://tenor.com/view/glorp-waa-7tv-twitch-aaaaa-gif-17137341012820105478
Mechanicus 2?
hollow mortar
pre midnight dooming was very on point gonna be real
tlt for sure will save us right
mortal hawk
Mechanicus 2?
gwaa
gray fox
mortal hawk
gwaarrior
mellow notch
Are we snapshitting chomp
coarse vessel
Are we snapshitting chomp
Are we doing what to Chomp!?
mellow notch
U hard me
coarse vessel
I do WHAT to you!?
left bolt
hard them
coarse vessel
I need an adult
left bolt
tlt for sure will save us right
surely
lyric plaza
The fact that pre midnight tuning was worse than we are now and was still allowed to ship is criminal
left bolt
arguably was better on launch than now because everyone else got larger buffs
unless you just mean in general
not feral specific
lyric plaza
I just mean in general
icy ermine
pre midnight dooming was very on point gonna be real
im always right
lyric plaza
Like it's obvious they didn't do any tuning work at alllll
hollow mortar
i think that for s2 midnight the meta comp should be 5 ferals
coarse vessel
I can see what you've been playing
mortal hawk
https://tenor.com/view/baguette-cat-minecraft-meme-funny-gif-18560351
do this to me
coarse vessel
ruby peak
do this to me
coarse vessel
vagrant slate
wintry apex
why play veinripper and scary face ? since vein is more st prio, and face is more aoe ?
mortal hawk
paw is generally better
and veinripper is just better than rnt
in every single way
wintry apex
i thought vein was good when low prio and low st in comp
mortal hawk
well
wintry apex
and tear better aoe
mortal hawk
it used to be just that yeah
but with unseen now
more bites = more unseen = more overall damage
too
vagrant slate
Doesn’t scary face sim higher in dslice
grand wind
hello, this is what skollcat plays in nexus, can you explan this two choices ?
Frantic in his keys specifically because at 21s/22s you have to make massive pulls to meet the timer; Tear Down the Mighty is more AoE and stronger in big pulls than Strike, Strike is better on small packs and in ST.
Run Strike for the Heart in pug keys.
wintry apex
ok ok
mortal hawk
Doesn’t scary face sim higher in dslice
they're very close, w those exact talents probably no
need AG for scary face
to be at full value
wintry apex
i am struggling a bit with damage right now i am often a bit behind
trying everything
wintry apex
for sure yes
river prawn
I found a dmg profile uptick with me was fixing my pandemic window applications
mortal hawk
paw 1.2% ahead of scary face
with those talents
but again skoll just likes scary face more
he knows its not better
coarse vessel
Nerfing Frantic was a mistake.
grand wind
Mayb unpopular opinion but I didn't like a cd being 25% of our damage.
left bolt
same, wish it was 50%
coarse vessel
Wish it was 65%
grand wind
💀
left bolt
65 gives me ptsd
grand wind
"Tank pull on my cd or else we will have no damage the whole key"
coarse vessel
Hello everyone! 😸
left bolt
i just want m+ers to reroll off feral
grand wind
Why lmao
dense cargo
don't like them
wintry apex
aight thanks, I am gonna brick my npx 20 now
coarse vessel
Being a meta spec in M+ is hazardous to raid health.
left bolt
need the spec to get reworked
lyric plaza
Mayb unpopular opinion but I didn't like a cd being 25% of our damage.
The apex talent technically also ends up being 25% of our damage
left bolt
its been awful in raid too long (raiders have already quit)
lyric plaza
It is XD
mortal hawk
aight thanks, I am gonna brick my npx 20 now
hope ur logging all these keys
mortal hawk
so we can maybe look at them if u want
wintry apex
nonono too soon
lyric plaza
Lmfao i have no say over the other cats XD
coarse vessel
Not with that attitude.
grand wind
m+ers make feral population look ok
Mayb unpopular opinion but I want Feral to be a one-trick spec.
coarse vessel
Cattitude
grand wind
You either main Feral or you suck at Feral that's how it should be.
So complex you can't just reroll to it.
wintry apex
you suck until you main it
coarse vessel
I just want us to be good in raid again
lyric plaza
m+ers make feral population look ok
I'd be ok with this if we didn't also require the comp to conform to us to be competitive
lyric plaza
laughs in dk
lyric plaza
If they do that the ret paladins might turn off their disc again
left bolt
combine and nerf monk/dh debuff if they have to exist
fringe yew
anyone using ellesmeres ui?
left bolt
delete hunters mark
fringe yew
i want the nameplates from it. is it using plater or default?
left bolt
hate that spell
grand wind
delete hunters mark
what does hunter's mark do
coarse vessel
Makes you do damage
grand wind
crazy concept never would've guessed 
fringe yew
crazy has a lot of concepts
grand wind
conceptualize deez nuts
fringe yew
i do...daily
grand wind
fringe yew
left bolt
what does hunter's mark do
believe it or not? more damage
dense current
65 gives me ptsd
😺
grand wind
All of your pancreas are belong to me.
coarse vessel
So you're the one who stole my ability to produce insulin?
fringe yew
i have 4
dense current
what does hunter's mark do
3% crit on target
coarse vessel
You're done for Catffeine
grand wind
mmm yummy pancreas
dense current
need the spec to get reworked
Moment it gets announced I’m swapping back cuz you know it’ll be busted too
Makeferalgreatagain
lyric plaza
It'll be so busted they put us in the dirt
Cause we're not allowed to beat the favored children
left bolt
i remember when feral aoe got spam nerfed in dragonflight because people might start thinking about bringing it into rwf keys
sleek python
combine and nerf monk/dh debuff if they have to exist
Just give every spec it's own buff
And have that overlap
With other specs
Like say feral brings stats + crit
And maybe monk brings Phys damage + crit
And say hunter bring stats + haste
And dk brings haste + crit
Etc
gray fox
does that even fix the issue
left bolt
i assume each portion wouldnt stack
oblique pike
i remember when feral aoe got spam nerfed in dragonflight because people might s...
what were the nerfsss .. cant remembe all .. they soft capped some stuff ?
sleek python
does that even fix the issue
Makes it better
coarse vessel
Just let Hunters bring a missing raid buff like they did in WoD
left bolt
like in ur example, if you brought feral and monk it would just be 1stats+1crit+1phys dam
tiny forge
Rampant should do one gorillian damage
left bolt
and not 1 stats+2crit+1phys dam
gray fox
we need mastery buff class or it's gg
left bolt
id rather raid buffs be utility based than dmg
like evoker raid buff
and rogue poison
sleek python
left bolt
if they have to exist at all
desert orbit
The utility model is so far away from where the current model is though
left bolt
absolutely yea
mortal hawk
4
left bolt
scran
coarse vessel
ngl that sounds so annoying to manage
You just looked at the raid buffs sheet Blizzard had in game.
gray fox
jfc that plate is loaded
sleek python
Y hefty
desert orbit
trying to see which buffs you have/need
but yeah it is until you get the core down in your head and then its straight forward
vagrant slate
Blizzard just needs to hire an intern to look at WCL statistics and creep class discords, then +/-% some abilities on every class every week until things look good
Instead of doing 3 balance passes a patch
vagrant slate
The rogue dev was pretty active in ravenholdt for a long time
left bolt
every spec getting buffs every patch somehow by using discord sentiment
vagrant slate
Mostly talked about poe2 but still
left bolt
wcl also loves removing aoe from their charts
wind jetty
Mostly talked about poe2 but still
when does it oficianly come out ?
left bolt
they are obsessed with it actually
wind jetty
we got a date already
desert orbit
There are many solutions to the problem but each have different trade offs
wind jetty
oh shit an admin
vagrant slate
I think they just need to be more active about their balance passes
desert orbit
I do think just very active balancing in DF s1 for example worked pretty well by wow standards
green crown
Allow us to cast starfall and starfire in catform
left bolt
gotta stop caring about world first/rwf keys and just nerf the good classes anyway
gray fox
also wrath, starsurge, and sunfire
vagrant slate
But it feels like they don’t balance early cause rwf and hof
Then they don’t balance late because of m+ title
green crown
And regrowth
lyric plaza
God forbid we want a cat in rwf
vagrant slate
So they have a brief middle period
desert orbit
gotta stop caring about world first/rwf keys and just nerf the good classes anyw...
yes, one step further is that they should probably balance based on sentiment more than numbers
atleast weight it higher
vagrant slate
If they balanced more often it would feel less shitty for title, because you know eventually most classes will be viable
left bolt
personally i think raid buffs should just not exist, class stacking just isnt something i care about
vagrant slate
Instead of potentially just locking in one comp for the whole season
left bolt
the 'we cant raid because no x buff' is so much more annoying than having 4 of a class
vagrant slate
personally i think raid buffs should just not exist, class stacking just isnt so...
The fix to class stacking is just balancing better, let people play what they want
desert orbit
Class stacking is extremely problematic in raids over time
vagrant slate
Ye
vagrant slate
Our guild had a big problem where we couldn’t field monk or dh, those guys are in actual jail
lyric plaza
The main issue is without raid buffs you end up with X spec has biggest pp. Bring that
plucky sandal
mythic chim kill https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/a36dTpBgcHXvwxWC?fight=1&type=damage-done&source=21 could someone tell me what im doing wrong feel like i am sucking
left bolt
if class stacking is genuinely a problem, id rather a solution like that spec does less damage the more of them there are in the group
desert orbit
its just n+1
coarse vessel
That's what raid buffs do.
lyric plaza
-5% damage for each shared spec
coarse vessel
But less toxic
desert orbit
assuming its easy enough to reroll which it currently is
wind jetty
just make the class stacking buffs on all sup/healer classes
desert orbit
Yes, the problem there is that there is only one source of a critical raid buff
wind jetty
and remove em from dps's
desert orbit
frankly
left bolt
raid buffs force specs and limits comps
coarse vessel
Because if you stack classes you start to miss out on raid buffs
So does class stacking
vagrant slate
Also if they just balance better than classes should be way closer together than a raid buff vs not having a raid buff
left bolt
like i do significantly less damage in world content or certain keys because no raid buffs
dense current
wcl also loves removing aoe from their charts
Cringe ass website ran by cringe ass people wcyd
coarse vessel
World content
left bolt
the stacking raid buff thing is also annoying for the same reason
coarse vessel
I dunno man
lyric plaza
To be fair this just because arguement of game design theory where both options can be correct and people just feel differently about the implementation
left bolt
i enter raid and suddenly do 15% more dmg?
coarse vessel
I'm of the mind that people should do less damage in world content.
Because this is a multiplayer game.
desert orbit
yes the passive power is why raid buffs were originally removed
its not great
it is however in general a better trade off
dense cargo
what does multiplayer have to do with world content
desert orbit
than completely killing any form of diversity
desert orbit
agree, m+ have different needs
left bolt
the audacity to not play monk/shaman/war in your groups
vagrant slate
Raid buffs are fake diversity, you are hard locking people into playing things harder than class stacking would
It is more mandatory to have the classes than to stack classes
left bolt
yea we've had to cancel several raid nights because we cannot get a raid buff
coarse vessel
Does it really matter if we're doing 15% less damage in world content given it's designed to be way easier than group content?
left bolt
its literally horrible
had to require someone to reroll druid this expansion because otherwise we wouldnt have motw
gray fox
yea we've had to cancel several raid nights because we cannot get a raid buff
nah i think you just go without it
that's kinda troll imo
left bolt
its not prog nights, its 'we kill any pull' nights
vagrant slate
Say theoretically no one in your guild wanted to play druid, you either have to field a worse player who will play it or force someone to play a class they don’t want to play
Yeah hunter this tier was a tragedy
left bolt
where not having the raid buff is just wasting peoples time
coarse vessel
Requiring multiple of one type of buff IS toxic for sure.
vagrant slate
It is just forcing you into a comp by another design
left bolt
we had no shaman the past 4 raid nights and had to make someone log on an alt in order to have skyfury buff
left bolt
we were wiping on crystals because we couldnt heal them fast enough (this was early in prog where kicks would be slow etc)
vagrant slate
Okay and with raid buffs you have 14/15 of those spots locked
It would be equivalent to stacking all shamans for dps
gray fox
It is just forcing you into a comp by another design
yeah that's what blizzard wants though. they don't want the imbalance to be so obvious
left bolt
getting punished because our 1 of a class has the audacity to go on vacation
garbage design
coarse vessel
I think you'd have that Uu'nat image even if classes were extremely tightly tuned given the WoW community is in love with forcing a strict meta for tiny gains.
dense current
Okay and with raid buffs you have 14/15 of those spots locked
And that gives people the ability to find guilds where they can play what they want instead of “sorry we need 7 rogues, can’t invite the feral druid”
vagrant slate
A guild only has like 3 or 4 non raid buff spots
coarse vessel
Why did they ever get rid of those?
vagrant slate
Every other position is locked in
desert orbit
I think you'd have that Uu'nat image even if classes were extremely tightly tune...
Yes, its n+1 always
if dps isn't the differentiator you go down to the enxt best thing
which becomes a massive deal
vagrant slate
And that gives people the ability to find guilds where they can play what they w...
Right now if our dh dropped we aren’t suddenly going to field another feral druid, we have to force someone else to play dh
dense current
“Sorry we can’t field you, you aren’t a skyfury”
There are plenty of other guilds for them to apply to vs guilds just not taking you because the meta is playing 5 mages and you aren’t a mage
You’re looking at your specific guild, I’m not talking on an individual guild level
vagrant slate
This is how a lot of guilds work
coarse vessel
They are strong though, I think there's only ever been one boss in the post-raid buffs era that didn't bring Int buff.
vagrant slate
Because raid buffs are mandatory
left bolt
you simply cannot field 2 of every class reasonably
coarse vessel
The dreadlords fight in Shadowlands.
left bolt
and even with 2 they can both be absent at the same time
dense current
I think you are simply not understanding what I’m saying and that’s ok
vagrant slate
I think you are simply not understanding what I’m saying and that’s ok
You are saying that if there were no raid buffs people would restrict comp naturally because of class stacking vs blizzard artificially restricting it with raid buffs
If they just balanced classes better class stacking wouldn’t be a thing
Class stacking also primarily affects higher end guilds
Raid buffs are significant at every skill level
coarse vessel
They would because this literally happened in Legion and BfA.
vagrant slate
Except maybe like aotc
coarse vessel
The community is going to stack the best DPS to the degree that they can get away with.
sand kraken
You are saying that if there were no raid buffs people would restrict comp natur...
i just got here but back before raid buffs people would just stack 10 of the best dps class
left bolt
we definitely have an issue with these raid buffs though!
coarse vessel
And healers too in terms of BfA where Disc and HPal were the only correct choices for the final two tiers.
sand kraken
you'd get laughed out for not playing the meta class
coarse vessel
Yeah there's too many different buffs now
vagrant slate
Classes are easier to get within balance vs having/not having a raid buff
Blizzard just sucks ass at balancing
desert orbit
Great, that's not a changable though
dense current
You are saying that if there were no raid buffs people would restrict comp natur...
yeah youre still missing the point and i dont know how i can explain it any more clearly than i am so gg i go next
coarse vessel
One of the raid buffs need to be bringing one of the other existing ones you don't already have.
vagrant slate
Yes class stacking can make many spots locked if the game isn’t balanced well, however raid buffs lock 14 of your raid spots
coarse vessel
WoD Lone Wolf
sand kraken
it's fun seeing diversity of different classes and roles on my raid team whether it's forced or not
coarse vessel
That was a great thing
scenic void
youre in feral channel, noone will bring u without motw
not litterbox trained
keep knocking over the healers drinks on the mage table
coarse vessel
it's fun seeing diversity of different classes and roles on my raid team whether...
Plus you'd still be forced in to having a Warlock every fight anyway because gateway and healthstones.
sand kraken
Yes class stacking can make many spots locked if the game isn’t balanced well, h...
whether it's balanced or not why would someone take not the best class
12 times
vagrant slate
Because people don’t play classes equally
coarse vessel
"But they're only 1% stronger than my class!"
vagrant slate
Maybe high world rank does
coarse vessel
"But we could take them 12 times"
woeful gazelle
meowuh
hollow mortar
they struck gold with memix/lemix scrolls and then didn't implement it in retail what's going on man
sand kraken
i don't think that was gold
coarse vessel
Scrolls were a Classic addition
hollow mortar
the scrolls in memix/lemix were like a weaker version of ur raid buffs ala drums
vagrant slate
I am of the opinion that most people will just play the best on the spec they have the most fun on or enjoy the most, which is why you see a lot of one tricks out there
sand kraken
play 12 unholy DKs and just bring 6 scrolls
coarse vessel
Yes, just like in Classic
hollow mortar
you'd still prolly want one of each for like, the top end because they bring better buffs
gray fox
why is it memix/lemix instead of remix
left bolt
people dont even class stack however much you can now outside of near rwf guilds
dense current
if i play x spec instead of y spec and y spec is the best spec in the game, raid buffs means i cna go find a guild that needs x spec or the person playing that spec just isnt that good vs me just not being able to find a guild at the rank i want because i am not y spec
this is inherently better for the community as a whole
sand kraken
people dont even class stack however much you can now outside of near rwf guilds
i don't agree
vagrant slate
if i play x spec instead of y spec and y spec is the best spec in the game, raid...
Or you can find a guild where you do more damage or are better than the 3rd or 4th warlock
sand kraken
wr 200-400 will class stack
coarse vessel
"Weekly no leaver, need lust"
vagrant slate
Because not everyone plays every class perfectly
hollow mortar
play 12 unholy DKs and just bring 6 scrolls
i mean ideally they'll be able to tune a bit more around not accounting for raid buffs as much but blizz loves keeping some outliers exist for some reason
coarse vessel
"+2, need brez"
sand kraken
raid buffs are so much better than the other options lol
perfect balance isn't happening ever
coarse vessel
They've nerfed raid buffs for being too strong before, Fort, Int and Shout were originally 10% in BfA.
Now Int is 3%
sand kraken
it's so sick having a shaman and a priest and a druid all doing their things
dense current
perfect balance isn't happening ever
left bolt
wow nice meta comp from the wr200 guild here
desert orbit
there is just so much natural differences there can be
coarse vessel
i mean ideally they'll be able to tune a bit more around not accounting for raid...
Surely covenants will be balanced to where we can play the one we like.
Hey it's Blinkladen!
I know that guy
left bolt
also til kitch is wr200 this season
gray fox
wow nice meta comp from the wr200 guild here
kitch 
sand kraken
i didn't say they all did and you know that lol
dense current
wow nice meta comp from the wr200 guild here
nah man we msut have 7 mages in a comp or else
coarse vessel
wow nice meta comp from the wr200 guild here
Dang, Akaari's Soul needs to pull their weight.
vagrant slate
Idk rn it feels pretty bad that I’m not competing against the 14 other dps, even if I beat everyone in my guild im competing against like the 4 spots that are open
left bolt
well im not going through all of wr200-400 to find how many guilds are comp stringent
hollow mortar
cant believe wr200 guilds have greyparsing ppl
vagrant slate
We could have a green parsing windwalker and I’m not competing against him, I’m competing against our 100 parsing ele shaman
left bolt
i bet the number is lower than 15
vagrant slate
Because we have a second shaman but not a second ww
hollow mortar
maybe we just need every spec to get an individual raid buff
dense current
no youre competing against the other druids
sand kraken
Idk rn it feels pretty bad that I’m not competing against the 14 other dps, even...
i disagree then it feels awesome to finally be considered in a raid comp after 10 years of being laughed out as a feral
hollow mortar
:)
desert orbit
I do think wow's combat is fundamentally poorly designed for as many specs as there are right now, but that's also because it developed over time.
sand kraken
well im not going through all of wr200-400 to find how many guilds are comp stri...
i'm not telling you to
mortal hawk
kitch
sand kraken
i lived it
desert orbit
I absolutely think that in an ideal world specs would have a clear role that was desirable without the needs for blunt tools like raid buffs but we have literally ran this experiment
there is a good reason the buffs came back
vestal nest
I've given out so many over the years
dense current
you wouldnt have a roster spot either if we were just stacking classes instead of raid buffs, just gonna be honest
gray fox
cba in retail i fly by at 1300% movement speed
desert orbit
doing night elf roll jumps while spamming motw is peak
coarse vessel
i did it when i played classic though
Because everything killed ppl back then
gray fox
the raid buffs sounds 
vagrant slate
why would you bring one if you dont need motw
Because your feral player is very good
And beats your other players
Since outside of high wr people don’t play perfectly
coarse vessel
They have to
dense current
doesnt matter when the spec is dogshit and your blue parsing xyz spec is better dps still
coarse vessel
Otherwise no one takes them
dense current
at least now you have a shot at finding a guild that needs motw or their motw players all suck
desert orbit
That's great, but I wouldn't recruit a feral player when I can recruit a good mage who is much more likely to have access to atleast one spec that is better than the feral, and has an immunity etc
vestal nest
only give motw to feral spec,
coarse vessel
I much prefer only having to compete with the other Druid specs for a spot than 19 other specs for a spot.
vagrant slate
That's great, but I wouldn't recruit a feral player when I can recruit a good ma...
A lot of world ranks don’t have that option
dense current
yes they do
desert orbit
It was easier for me to find raids as a 90% mage than a top 10 feral
coarse vessel
Same
desert orbit
by a lot
coarse vessel
But that was partially because of Rune of Power for 11 years
vagrant slate
The flip side is you are forced to play bad players because raid buff
A green parsing dh is worth bringing over literally anything else
dense current
recruit better players
coarse vessel
Very popular class even before the third spec
vagrant slate
It's also not hard to find a DH
It was incredibly hard for us from aberrus to undermine
At like WR 600 ish
dense current
you clearly did not try very hard
coarse vessel
Okay well it wasn't hard for any guild I was in from that period
vagrant slate
We actively tried poaching players
hollow turret
cant believe wr200 guilds have greyparsing ppl <:garf:1182703292313255946>
happens
coarse vessel
Havoc has nearly always attracted a lot of tourists.
vagrant slate
So we put one of our players in jail
They are our Dh and are not allowed to play specs they actually want to play
dense current
gonna be a little hyperbolic, but one tricks are simply the bane of this games raiding community
vagrant slate
Want to flex rogue on smolderon? Nah get fucked
dense current
They are our Dh and are not allowed to play specs they actually want to play
i would simply find a different guild and play what i want to
thats the joy of radi buffs, you can actually do that!
coarse vessel
I don't think Ferals realise how much Mark of the Wild has played in them being brought to content.
vagrant slate
Someone has to take the L, either you field a worse player, someone is in jail, or your entire raid does 3% less damage
dense current
i am again talking about the community as a whole, i do not care about a single guild having trouble finding someone
sure it may suck for specific guilds because theyre having trouble finding someone to play xyz spec
coarse vessel
And removing raid buffs would probably send the spec back to total irrelevancy for 10 years again
dense current
that doesnt mean the alternatives are better
coarse vessel
Unless Blizzard finally decides to favour them
Like they did for Arcane the previous 2 xpacs
vagrant slate
i am again talking about the community as a whole, i do not care about a single ...
Yes this happens to more than my guild
When I was helping RWL guilds they wanted specific classes
So even though I could have shown up and helped they were just SoL
Since I wasn’t a monk
dense current
its ok if we werent doing raid buffs they wouldnt want you because you werent an ele shaman
sand kraken
that thinking is why they're low wr LMFAO
sand kraken
just proof they're bad
coarse vessel
Must be this tall to raid
dense current
literally nothing changes in your example
sand kraken
Must be this tall to raid
i'm screwed
coarse vessel
i'm screwed
Short curse?
(curse not meaning literally here)
Then again you could be so badly tuned and designed right now that bringing lust and a raid buff is still not enough to get played.
viscid stirrup
Is Dungeon Slice a viable sim for cat?
coarse vessel
yep
vagrant slate
Ye
coarse vessel
maet
dense current
insane to do
hollow turret
now i have to do it for every class
dense current
even more insane to do it
dense current
what benefits did you gain
coarse vessel
<a:Erm:1145970915985858650>
ruby peak
im ramping
viscid stirrup
Can someone tell my why Wild Slashes+Tireless Energy sims better than Double-Clawed Rake+Infected Wounds for me? Is it gear specific? Is Dungeon Slice not the right sim for that? Assuming Double-Clawed Rake+Infected Wounds is the better choice since its the recommended tree in the compendium.
mortal hawk
theres no better choice
and dcr/iw is not the recommended in the compendium
swipe leaning is the recommended
since it takes significantly less cognitive load to play while producing the same results
as for the sim itself, dslice is good for feral and it is a bit dependant on gear, but talents like that are hard to compare with just a sim cause m+ is very dynamic
w that said it probably sims higher cause ur gaining a lot of st from TE
viscid stirrup
kk, ive assumed wrong then. I saw the "if youre unsure pick me". But looking at logs suggests dcr/iw is the superior combo or atleast the more played one.
hollow turret
insane to do
its just bcdm is probably soon on hold and just barely touched and now i should probably get proper layouts for my cdm so
viscid stirrup
Ive done a singletarget sim aswell, that sims worse. But for dungeon slice its 2.2% more dmg.
mortal hawk
kk, ive assumed wrong then. I saw the "if youre unsure pick me". But looking at ...
yeah the "if unsure pick me" is wild slashes
viscid stirrup
(the wild slashes/tireless energy simmed worse for st)
viscid stirrup
(the wild slashes/tireless energy simmed worse for st)
Which contradicts your assumption that i gain st dmg in the dungeon slice sim from TE?
coarse vessel
mortal hawk
Which contradicts your assumption that i gain st dmg in the dungeon slice sim fr...
well it depends on what u simmed for st
viscid stirrup
Yeah, can see that. Its the same for my main aswell, too few points for many good talents.
viscid stirrup
well it depends on what u simmed for st
I simmed patchwork for singletarget and dungeonslice for well dungeonslice. Just comparing the two trees.
mortal hawk
can u link
viscid stirrup
yeah sure
left bolt
not unusual, iw is stronger than te
left bolt
Iw is just the weakest st talent in the middle gate (of the talents we play in pure st)
viscid stirrup
Im open to play something else, ofc.
dense current
its just bcdm is probably soon on hold and just barely touched and now i should ...
fair didnt know that about bcdm
mortal hawk
also ig its gear dependant on te vs iw, like two days ago someone asked the same thing with the opposite results for te vs iw
on st
left bolt
Bizarre
vagrant slate
burnt hound
thats ai
mortal hawk
Im open to play something else, ofc.
veinripper is just better than rnt in every single case, its not a preference thing
fading yew
left bolt
i like how all the other classes are multiline
fringe yew
feral fixed
viscid stirrup
also ig its gear dependant on te vs iw, like two days ago someone asked the same...
yeah, im rocking bear gear mostly and some scraps. in some sims it even disliked mastery/crit gear over vers/haste gear.
left bolt
and feral is just, "here's a bandaid for ur troubles"
viscid stirrup
veinripper is just better than rnt in every single case, its not a preference th...
glancing at murlok suggested that rip and tear is the prefered choice, but ive got no favorites and dont possess the knowledge to know better
mortal hawk
yes m+ers are dogs
burnt hound
I like how Feral only has 1 line opposed to all others having 1+
dense current
nice there was tuning after all
burnt hound
i like how all the other classes are multiline
lol was thinking the same
left bolt
holy priest mana reduction
left bolt
only 8% on some spells but thats something
dense current
i like how all the other classes are multiline
gotta save all the lines for 12.1 rework
lyric plaza
Damn with 4% we might be able to keep up with fire mages
viscid stirrup
if u dont believe me
nono dont worry im not naive enough to go to the class discord and then argue with the ppl there over their class
im interested to know why veinripper is better tho, since im curious. is it just the uptime/less cp/gcds on rip/rake and more on other stuff?
vagrant slate
🐌
mortal hawk
im interested to know why veinripper is better tho, since im curious. is it just...
used to be that vr is more prio (cause it lets you bite more), rnt is more overall damage, but with apex talents more bites = more unseen procs = more overall damage, so vr is just better for that too
lyric plaza
^
viscid stirrup
used to be that vr is more prio (cause it lets you bite more), rnt is more overa...
kk, makes sense. thank you for taking the time to explain.
lyric plaza
The apex talent between procs and buffs ends up being like 25% of our damage, sometimes more
gray fox
Feral actually received a buff
mortal hawk
they die within 1 rip anyway
so you just get to do 15% more damgae to them with rnt
but that kind of situation isnt really a thing in keys
viscid stirrup
maybe the wyrms in mt?
mortal hawk
if you want more burst for something like that you'd just go CI instead
viscid stirrup
but yeah doesnt matter there either
mellow notch
Wow a whole 4% guy's
dense current
is this still a dub guys
gray fox
net neutral
fringe yew
rior made this happen
mellow notch
Blizzard
lyric frost
unlucky
gray tartan
this is *definitely* bigger than 4%
But they play spellslinger now no? And it doesn't uses arcane missiles, only the orb iirc ?
lyric frost
still bottom just not as bottom
cyan marsh
Im happy about herald of sun being buffed, I like that tree more
left bolt
But they play spellslinger now no? And it doesn't uses arcane missiles, only the...
well you see, All ability damage increased by 5%.
gray tartan
well you see, All ability damage increased by 5%.
Oh shit I didn't read XD
dense current
net neutral
hmm ill take it
mellow notch
Every mage spec
lyric plaza
How do they get a bigger buff than us XD
mellow notch
Jesus christ
gray fox
well you see, All ability damage increased by 5%.
yeah but we got ALL damage 😏
mellow notch
Because theyre mage
dense current
didnt believe in the tuning, but believe in feral tuning when it happened
mellow notch
We cant have any mage spec in the bottom half
woven lake
what's our aura at now?
left bolt
ele shammy has been playing stormbringer on all but 1 boss
so they prob didnt get buffed
except for the 1 boss
fresh anchor
Mages are getting the specs not being played buffed
woven lake
?????
left bolt
but maybe im underestimating the note
woven lake
brother what
fresh anchor
It’s a nothing burger
cyan marsh
Aldrachi was hot garbage
left bolt
no evoker buff
left bolt
because they were worse
what is this
errant drift
no evoker buff
i’m actually baffled by this, dev is insufferably ass
mellow notch
Arcane was like giga on 2 fights wasnt it
ruby peak
Not showing the 25% parse range 🥀
left bolt
i see
woven lake
fix ouf ficking spec
viscid stirrup
Is it ok to castsequence puzzlebox with berserk? im really running low on hotkeys on my druid.
woven lake
@left bolt what's our aura going to be at now
dense current
Arcane was like giga on 2 fights wasnt it
it had one good meme parse where it solo'd an alleria add in p1 and did fuck all the rest of the fight
left bolt
uh
ruby peak
Bro it’s like 48
mellow notch
Rebuff ravage for dotc?
hollow turret
fair didnt know that about bcdm
for now i need to think
ruby peak
That’s a guess
mellow notch
Jfc
hollow turret
has some lil problems but probably fixable
novel viper
Are they saying feral is shit regardless of hero talent?
gray fox
yes
mortal hawk
yes
dense current
yes
errant drift
yes