balance

[normal pilot]

ya balance tuning has sucked for a decently long time now

not surprising it's dropped in relative popularity

[dreamy locust]

And BFA I think druid was pretty good throughout

[lofty depot]

The numbers have been roughly the same through end of DF, tww, to now

[dreamy locust]

https://i.imgur.com/cjdkiBL.png
https://i.imgur.com/dTdEL5e.png

[lofty depot]

But people get crazy about Sims and tuning start of patch when most of them can play whatever they want and just be better than their guild

[dreamy locust]

heres like EP heroic

[lofty depot]

We're comparing heroic numbers......

My bad, I cba

[dreamy locust]

I mean, heroic numbers is what I mean, general players

Mythic is way more skewed by whats good

heroics just dads

playin what they always play

[lofty depot]

That's... A different arguement

[dreamy locust]

It was my own argument, so idk how its different

[lofty depot]

They don't care about content or tuning

[dreamy locust]

Idk if you think I was arguin somethin else

I said boomys way less popular for general players, aka heroic people

Than it used to be

cause its been kinda historically bad for a while

[loud kettle]

castle nathria boomkin tho

[lofty depot]

Havoc is 50% worse by ur metric

[royal zenith]

poor havoc

[dreamy locust]

Even a lot of heroic dads will try something else out if it sucks forever

Yeah havoc was giga OP fun, then it became kinda momentum ass

[lofty depot]

Fire 50% worse

Havoc is giga good

[royal zenith]

feral 50% worse...

(deserved)

[lofty depot]

Arcane is like 100% worse

[dreamy locust]

Im not saying havocs bad right now, but its not as casually fun compared to BFA havoc where you hit like eye beam and blade dance

and chilled

[loud kettle]

there are too many feral druids, need to nerf their aoe

need that spec to get reworked

[lofty depot]

I think more people play feral that refuse to change spec than play balance that refuse to change

[dreamy locust]

Mage swapping specs is very different than druids swapping specs IMO

[fossil hemlock]

There's a line, no cutting in

[lofty depot]

Balance pipeline is pretty big

[dreamy locust]

Lot of people who played boomy would rather reroll than play feral

And same for ferals

[loud kettle]

ok shadow priest can skip a rework

[fossil hemlock]

You think blizz remembers the spec exists?

[loud kettle]

obviously

[lofty depot]

Psychic link change says they remember

[loud kettle]

psychic link gets adjusted every patch

they know it exists

[dreamy locust]

Spriest got psychic link knob, boomy just got starfall/wrath knob

Slap 5% wrath buff on that thang

Let it rot

[lucid olive]

lunar calling seen more tuning passes since tww launch than psychic link

[normal pilot]

feral just got a massive rework they've already moved on

[dreamy locust]

Midnight pruning = rework for everyone, ur at the back of the line

Shurely someday feral can do more than ST a boss down in raid

[normal pilot]

sure but its diff degrees for diff specs

feral got a much larger change than many other specs

[dreamy locust]

Yeah and then it has the same problems in raid its had for like

Last few years

Raid is just a boss sitter bot spec that brings MOTW

[normal pilot]

what can you do, dev doesn't like to buff

[dreamy locust]

Needs some talents that let it do both AoE and ST and not be hyper focused into one

And have meaningful AoE button to hit for add fights

[normal pilot]

there's plenty of those talents already

it's just tuned lower than talents that make you choose

you don't need new talents you need a dev taht'll buff you to overpoweredness

[lofty depot]

Feral dev likes being the little gup

[normal pilot]

same applies to balance just enjoy your guaranteed mark-bot slot

at least you can rest assured eventually they'll ignore bear like always and it'll disappear next tier

[royal zenith]

2 pages of comments already gamz

[dreamy locust]

Even if both druid dps specs are ass, Id just prefer boomy because it doesnt feel useless for killing important mobs/swaps

[royal zenith]

still ramping..

[lofty depot]

Well that's now, but that hasn't been true in many tiers

Also, they were scared before rwf started that balance would be good and nerfed it

God forbid

[lucid olive]

starfall nerf on season launch into starfall buff week 3

classic

[dreamy locust]

What tier exactly was feral known for its add or important short add swap

[lofty depot]

I didn't say it was

I said balance hadn't been either

[dreamy locust]

Boomy isnt great, but its better than feral

[lucid olive]

currently yes

[lofty depot]

Thags been cope for years

It was good on stix

[dreamy locust]

Its not cope, feral is just completely useless

[ruby badger]

I think feral's burst profile was more relevant than boomy's spread cleave profile for a fair few of the past raid tiers

but that's just feelycraft

[lucid olive]

guess thats why moonkin players went feral for manaforge

[dreamy locust]

Feral was good and important for its jobs

[lofty depot]

If feral is completely useless why has it been played more than boomkin

[royal zenith]

think you guys are confusing good with just being the best druid spec

[dreamy locust]

But its jobs are like, short burst boss shields, or boss dmg

not for killing important adds or swapping important targets

[ruby badger]

Nah feral burst was pretty top tier prior to pruning usually

[lucid olive]

yeah both specs are dogshit, but which is played depends on overall boss design and tuning

we figured it out

[royal zenith]

it's like tindral

[lofty depot]

Ye about he's saying feral isn't taken cuz it doesn't do add damage

[dreamy locust]

I never said that

you just making shit up lmfao

You just got arguments in your head you force on peoples statements

[lofty depot]

U quite literally said it

[ruby badger]

He said I'd prefer boomy

[dreamy locust]

What id prefer to play = feral is dogshit and not brought?

[ruby badger]

Think he's just talking about what feels good not the meta

[dreamy locust]

Didnt know thats what it meant

[lofty depot]

So we're playing semantics

Ok

[dreamy locust]

Semantics? I just talked about what I like playing

I never talked about what was good or brought or meta

[lofty depot]

I mean u brought up heroic player count so what can I expect I suppose

[dreamy locust]

in my statement

Yeah another time you can't read or understand someones argument #2

Not even argument, just talkin

[royal zenith]

are we talking current tier for the swapping?

[lofty depot]

Spewing*

[ruby badger]

Oh wait yeah I completely forgot

Boomy's old mastery ROFL

[royal zenith]

cause previously (after SL) our mastery was pretty shit for target swapping

[ruby badger]

one of the worst target swappers possible

[lucid olive]

i got benched on loomithar when they saw my add dmg

[lofty depot]

It's been shit for swapping for a while, but people think boomkin is the spread target king

[lucid olive]

and i was swapping too

[royal zenith]

yeah that's a good example

like versus ele shaman we were dogshit

[ruby badger]

I think Loomithar was probably the fight that made them change boomy mastery

[lofty depot]

Smh, why didn't u dump buffed surges into adds

[ruby badger]

cause that fight not being a boomy wet dream is heresy

[fathom nebula]

I tanked Loomithar as Boomie cause both tanks died and i realied it does like no auto attack damage

[dreamy locust]

Link your loomithar dmg first kill, and Ill link my feral dmg

[royal zenith]

I do agree with Dusty that in general/in theory boomy is better than feral

but feral has their own problems

competing with melee in this tier?

like impossible

you didnt want to slot melee at all

or dont *

[dull dust]

this tier just blows

in general

[dreamy locust]

Ill be honest, I tried hitting tangles start of loomithar, but I literally didnt do shit anyways

[royal zenith]

kinda feel like you just play feral for flavour

[dreamy locust]

but also wild charge feral also killed you

[royal zenith]

even though it's not bad at all

[dreamy locust]

by trying to put you behind it

[royal zenith]

kek that's true

[ruby badger]

I mean feral is a really good M+ spec rn at least

[dreamy locust]

https://i.imgur.com/IbmrV1N.png

[ruby badger]

Well actually maybe not really but...

Still it's up there

[royal zenith]

yeah it's done some decently high keys at least

[dreamy locust]

Yeah ferals been pretty good in M+ in the right hands few tiers now

[royal zenith]

but like druid is kind of maximum lottery, no matter what spec you play

like any other hybrid class

[lofty depot]

Why ur parse a 0

[ruby badger]

I think resto's been a pretty solid healer pick for a while now

[dreamy locust]

I died my first loom, color blind purple floor purple swirlies were hard

I rank 1'd my 2nd tho, the duality of a monkey

[lofty depot]

Mmhm mmhm

Duality of ferals not killing it prob

16 kills vs 22

[dreamy locust]

Lmfao, might have killed at end of week, then killing again on tuesday

With new gear

[dreamy locust]

Benefits of raiding monday/tuesday

[lofty depot]

Meanwhile I'm out here fighting gods

[royal zenith]

I thought you couldn't get more cringe

but it actually happened

impressive

[lofty depot]

I raise the bar

[royal zenith]

why you hiding your guild's name buddy

[lofty depot]

Hiding?

Grow up moron

[royal zenith]

that was too easy

[sudden pawn]

read some of above, i usually always prefer if my spec is good in raid and whatever in m+

but i also dont do m+ beyond gearing for raiding

i just know if moonkin is good in m+ its going to be terrible in raid mostly

[royal zenith]

Ill be honest...

[fossil hemlock]

Hello Honest

[royal zenith]

it feels dogshit when you're not a 'good' M+ spec

start of the tier

[sudden pawn]

ya but that window of gearing is so whatever

[royal zenith]

pressing 40 gcd's to compete with an eyebeam

the worst

[calm island]

When is blizzard gonna make roar castable as owl or would that be too op

[ruby badger]

That's the best time of the tier to feel like a bad M+ spec

Cause there's hope that when people actually start pushing your spec gets good

[royal zenith]

nah you can reroll later on in the tier

[sudden pawn]

ya id rather suck in the 10s i do for gearing for raid then in the 15-20s i do later, not that i would do that

[royal zenith]

dead weight for guild keys

the worst

[ruby badger]

It'd be too OP you'd just play 14 moonkins

[lofty depot]

Press n play bear

[dreamy locust]

I mean, boomy isnt like great in M+ this season, but it didnt feel bad

[pallid bay]

[ruby badger]

It doesn't feel bad but honestly I can't think of many specs it's better than

but I've still been thugging it out

[calm island]

Its not bad but I get more invites to 10-12s as 276 aug than 290 boomie xd

[pallid bay]

great in m+ just means meta lets be real

[sudden pawn]

im in the boat of, moonkin is ok to decent in raid rn; can be competitive with the op fellas can be good if ur guild has no hands

[ruby badger]

I have to wait a few minutes to get accepted into my weeklies at 3.7k io

[sudden pawn]

and im content being ok to decent

[royal zenith]

oh yeah? I get invited within minutes with my 2.3k rio and 289 ilvl

[ruby badger]

But everyone knows your name, I don't have that notoriety...

[spice roost]

who

[royal zenith]

THIS

[dreamy locust]

Like I pugged like 15-17's for 3400 achievement, I didnt lose overall to any of the dogshit fotm reroll key players, Only like other HOF or actually good players

There have been times, youd get stomped by avg people on the meta specs

in any pug key

[lofty depot]

But feral is meta

[dreamy locust]

right now you can easily topdmg a key if ur better

which doesnt make it feel as bad

How long ago was it when it was that survival hunter bomb meta

[craggy sonnet]

Everyone was compared to ele in MF

[dreamy locust]

You could invite patchy the pirate, using 1 button rotation with a claw hand and he'd do more overall than you

Back in those dark days

[royal zenith]

it was kinda cranking a lot

funny how they went to best AOE/cleave burst spec to best burst ST spec this tier

[dreamy locust]

Shamans been eatin real good

If you like both specs

[ruby badger]

Don't think you had to clarify burst ST

For ranged DPS at least

[royal zenith]

well Im not sure if it's like the best ST :' )

definitely best on egg

[craggy sonnet]

Ele guy likes to stay on top

Alpha male compared to whatever druid got

[dreamy locust]

Crazy to me they didnt put a single ST boss the entire tier

[lucid olive]

banger tier

[dreamy locust]

Meh

[lucid olive]

alleria prog most fun prog i've had

that boss banged

[dreamy locust]

Good ST fights are some of the best fights

I was sat

and calling arrows

Sludgefist, Painsmith minus windwalker

The GOAT's

[wild wind]

Ok, so I mained balance a few expansions ago, just tried it out on my resto druid. But I cant figure out the solar eclipse to save my life 😄 Like eventhough I'm using wrath lunar eclipse doesnt change to solar. What am I missing?

[dreamy locust]

Once you start an eclipse its locked as that eclipse

[lucid olive]

no

[ruby badger]

If you mean outside of Eclipse, you are playing Elune's Chosen

[lucid olive]

you can enter lunar, cast wrath and enter solar

but it cancels your lunar

so in gameplay youre locked in but not actually

[dreamy locust]

Okay actual semantics

[lucid olive]

also you are playing Lunar Calling, theres a search box down left on the talent page in game

can see it highlighted and read it

[fathom nebula]

The Lura guides really should warn that the fight costs 10k gold per raid night

[ruby badger]

Bro I've started doing the weekly quests on my alts for gold

Blizzard went long on anvils then made L'ura

[wild wind]

Jesus, I literally read every ability in the Balance tree to try to figure it out but skipped theelunes chosen tree 😄 lol

Thanks

[lofty depot]

call ur gm and tell him to up the repair budget

[dreamy locust]

Become a master blacksmith ingame

You get free repairs or something

[lucid olive]

chilling with leatherworking and inscription

im set for the entire expansion

[dreamy locust]

I made like prolly 100-200k just from disenchanting and selling crystals early on

Enchanting/alch for long flask and never actually use alchemy

But enchanting is like useless/ass for money after expansion launch

[lofty depot]

they keep taking my icons

[dreamy locust]

I tried manual mushroom on dragons first time this week, button felt good

I need to see how big the actual mushroom hit is

Im curious

Like radius wise, not dmg wise

I wasnt exactly sure if people were spamming it on mass grip sets, or just using 1 for every spread set either

[lucid olive]

just kinda vibe

[copper gate]

Just send them every orb wave

Dk mass grips send out 2-3 then Starfall spam

[lofty depot]

incorrect

starfall spam pre spawn then send 2 mushroom

alsooooooooooooooooooo we dk gripping them still?

thats kinda toxic

[lucid olive]

<@&114146878353833984>

[dreamy locust]

Yeah gonna tell me raid no more blood dk

less pie for me

[muted viper]

is there any optimimal dungeon(s) to be spending voidcores to gear a char? I am guessing NPX and wrs?

[delicate perch]

Npx has good weapon + ring set

What’s useful in spire though

[void jacinth]

hmm razorfen caverns

secret egg legendary 298 druid loot

[muted viper]

i dont raid so trinkets

with no raid i was going to go for feather + heart

[dreamy locust]

Just use em on good pieces, its 5 dungeons for an upgrade

or are bonus rolls called voidcores

[muted viper]

bonus rolls

[dreamy locust]

Sim then

[lofty depot]

u can heroic raid

[dreamy locust]

Raidbots and check expected upgrade*

[lofty depot]

and yes heroic vaelgors is better than myth feather

[dreamy locust]

for max mythic

[proven swallow]

how come some ppl are running ec on beloren mythic?

[sudden pawn]

cause its cleaving 3 targets some what consistantly

and it does ok egg dam

but keeper is similar so

but prob more egg damage

[true viper]

We got it covered

[lofty depot]

ec sim higher on st

[fair pasture]

Gamz

Just read your article

I solved the spec

When you cast treants

It then makes full moon always full moon

But it also makes it

FULL MUSHROOM

Giant mushroom comes down from the sky

And what the trees have to do with this idk

They cheer you on

"damn that's cool as hell"
"Real, real"
^ trees

[fair pasture]

Are u targetting a dragon with mushroom or like the middle most orb

I try to select middle most orb

[lofty depot]

a random one

but im likely not playing mushroom on that boss

[fair pasture]

Dragons?

[lofty depot]

yes?

[fair pasture]

Just clarifying

What r u playing on it

Idk what's even diff on mythic I should watch a vid

[lofty depot]

well just not hte manual one

[fair pasture]

I finally killed m Chim I parsed 87 but was dead for a bit

Not great

[nimble tangle]

Is new raid trinket boomie’s BiS?

[fair pasture]

I did like 10k less than garyeet but that parse is probably pre weekly dmg buff

[nimble tangle]

But buffed stats is random

[vernal pollen]

On Lura, does solar beaming the boss also interrupt the matrix guys? Was doing it on heroic but had no idea if it was actually working

[sudden pawn]

u have to target the matrix specifically

typically on mythic you have a focus macro to target a specific one and kick in an order with ur team mates

[vernal pollen]

ya thats what i was wondering, starting mythic tomorrow

ty

[lofty depot]

🔮

[lofty depot]

depends which one

[nimble tangle]

what does this mean

[normal pilot]

purple circle with dots and orange thing on bottom

[vernal pollen]

Uhh thats a brown thing obvs

[dense steeple]

crystal_ball

[muted citrus]

guys can i (a sweet angel resto main) ask a simple question i have while delving if thats ok if you promise not to get mad at me

can you seriously not like <1 second overlap eclipses with the eclipse (not CA) button you gotta wait til its 100% fully done

[drifting nova]

no

or yes

idk the question

[muted citrus]

thanks ill die

[drifting nova]

well we are chickens

you cant apply the same buff (eclipse) more than once, yes

is it silly? yes but it is also blizzard

[muted citrus]

i just wanna like swap less than 1 second early so it doesnt fully fall off i guess

[drifting nova]

wdym swap

[lofty depot]

sorry doing keys

yea u cant

[muted citrus]

[granite lodge]

I'm dogshit at using wild mushrooms on M DRAGONS someone please help i've never used the spell before and the other boomy is kicking my dong in prog

[spice roost]

just dont use them

[granite lodge]

But he's doing more damage than me and the top parses play that talent

[spice roost]

lol top parses arent progging for one

[granite lodge]

TRUUUU

but we are measuring PPs

[fossil shard]

Make a @ cursor macro,

Press mushroom when adds spawn

Profit

Really aint much to it

[lofty depot]

so what

[fossil shard]

Probably some bigger issues though based on your approach here. Look at logs and find out what he’s doing that you’re not if you wanna compete

[lofty depot]

if u play worse

u press 2 a set and slam

idk how its hard tbf

but ur likely pressing ur other buttons funny

[fossil shard]

^ this

[copper gate]

you can make an @ cursor macro for the manual shrooms?

holy moly

[lofty depot]

think it has to be @mouseover

cuz its a targetted ability

but shrug

[dense steeple]

look at me first try a god seed holder https://www.twitch.tv/somaloria/clip/ShortKitschyHummingbirdDansGame-jdLM4UjJ2WZgSFZh

[delicate perch]

Good seed holder but not visible on details

[lofty depot]

PRESS REGROWTH

wheres ur hotw

fuggn noob

[dense steeple]

im also a fuckin kick man

this shit is aids

cant tunnel rotation when i ahve 3 extra fucking buttons on my bar im not used to

[delicate perch]

I’m kick one

Takes like 2 pulls to not be a moron tbh

[dense steeple]

im backup

not just kick

i have to watch every fucking kick

[delicate perch]

Wrong

You let it go off and blame the missing people

But also you are not a kicker

[dense steeple]

realistically you are correct

i should just let it go off

but i want to get prog

so i want them to be kicked

[delicate perch]

Well you wouldn’t use a macro

So you are lying with +3 buttons

[dense steeple]

why nt?

focus macro

target kick macro

extra action macro

[stone ledge]

i am also the kick man + seed holder combo

[dense steeple]

https://www.twitch.tv/somaloria/clip/InexpensiveDiligentNoodleJonCarnage-6nVSRbx2tzX9-tqL here you go now i'm on the meters

[dense steeple]

how are you big braining it

[stone ledge]

im delaying my cd's at start of p2 cause fuck that shit im not fitting eclipse trees convoke with a movement speed, and dropping/shuffling

[dense steeple]

i'm still in p1

[lofty depot]

u dont need to sunfire first set

stop pressing starfall

[granite lodge]

tried looking at logs, I dont really get it,

[dense steeple]

just prayge the convoke does dam?

[lofty depot]

i didnt say that

that isnt during the adds

ur pressing starfall on cosmos procs i assume

u dont do that playing rattle

[delicate perch]

Regular btw

[dense steeple]

are you about to tell me i need to play rattle

[lofty depot]

h u pressed that natty

stop that

[dense steeple]

and tat recruitie is wrong

[lofty depot]

ur playing rattle

[delicate perch]

LOL

????????????

[dense steeple]

i misbrained

im so tired

[lofty depot]

??

[dense steeple]

im cooked chat

[lofty depot]

but those were also natty starfalls

so

[dense steeple]

[delicate perch]

“Damn man I’m getting no weaver procs” - soma

[lofty depot]

oh one of them wasnt

[dense steeple]

no i knew i wasnt playing that i switched the names in my head

so never starfall cosmos proc?

[lofty depot]

if there isnt adds

[fair pasture]

anyone here a leatherworker with a bunch of the stuff that lets them make my bracers high qual

[lofty depot]

ur not pressing starfall to get free procs

[lofty depot]

just post that shit on public order and giv like 5k gold

[fair pasture]

someone told me sometimes they dont make it highquest qual

and scammaz you

[lofty depot]

well tahts true

but ive done it so much

so like idk

[fair pasture]

ok ill believe

also it was ur may 2 kill

of m chaimamenasudnad

i dont remember what the point was

[lofty depot]

oh yea i didnt know if u meant my alt or not lol

[fair pasture]

was Garyeet not garyuhyuh

[lofty depot]

mmhm mmhm

garyuhyuh doesnt have gear

[fair pasture]

im annoyed i didnt use the expensive lights potential now

and also that i died and forgot a trinket activation

well less forgot more dleayed too long

maybe

whatevs

i need to do mythic my guild got aotc and everyone disappeared

ayy someone public crafted my bracers hell yeah

[drifting nova]

broke, smh

[fair pasture]

I had a bunch in my bank

Not in my inv

I had them segregated because I was having difficulties making my prepot and trinket macro use the right ones

I figured it out tho

But also

Hi kekkers hope you had a nice day

[drifting nova]

segre huh

its 7am

and my eye hurts

[fair pasture]

It's 2 am here

[drifting nova]

[fair pasture]

And my eye also hurts

Left eye for me

[drifting nova]

same (for now)

[fair pasture]

I keep rubbing it and SOMEHOW it doesn't get better

Do you have to go to work and some weird stuff soon

[drifting nova]

I am at work now

[fair pasture]

Ic

What is ur work

[drifting nova]

cooking books

[fair pasture]

Hell yeah

No wonder u don't pay taxes

[drifting nova]

I stupidly said I'd do nights for 6months

its easier sure

but ehhhh

[fair pasture]

Why does there need to be a night accountant

[drifting nova]

to speak to asia

for why they aint paid shit

[fair pasture]

Oh true makes sense

[drifting nova]

could it be done early morning? probably

but they upped pay for it during covid as a trial

its semi temporary

[fair pasture]

Do u specifically get more money

[drifting nova]

10k and less days in the week

[fair pasture]

Nice

[drifting nova]

3 not 5

[fair pasture]

Seems p good tbh

[drifting nova]

the big university benefit, they have way too much money to count

[fair pasture]

Have you seen Dragonball z

[drifting nova]

yeah naruto is a cool char

[fair pasture]

That was in Dragonball z 2

The one with Jack black

[drifting nova]

house of rock?

[fair pasture]

Dragonball z 2: the wrath of khan

[drifting nova]

my favourite khan, kublai

[fair pasture]

Ok but do you think

A shaman

Is more of a Goku, or a Vegeta

[drifting nova]

vegeta the green one?

I have watched about 4minutes of it ever in my life

so

[fair pasture]

That's piccolo

This is vegeta

[drifting nova]

and I was like 8 for those 4mins

[drifting nova]

wheres his pyramid necklace?

[fair pasture]

That's Chandler Bing from hit show Yugioh

[drifting nova]

actually saying that how long is yugioh

5seasons, on the list

[fair pasture]

Catchphrase: BUH, ZINGA!

[delicate perch]

maybe base series

theres the cringe followups to it which are defs a lot more

[drifting nova]

eh, itl be the 00s one

[delicate perch]

ya it gets terrible after that

[fair pasture]

Ok but

Is a shaman more of a Goku or a Vegeta

Goku does come back to life all the time

[drifting nova]

what does that even mean

vegetable is the big bad no

[fair pasture]

Early on but he becomes one of the main characters

One of my friends char names has Vegeta in it and some other stuff cause it's funny

And he was debating naming his paladin a Goku variant of it

And I thought yeah a paladin is definitely a subtype of Goku rather than Vegeta

So now I'm trying to categorize all the classes as such

Look I have hobbies okay

[drifting nova]

yeah but which is the better avatar

[fair pasture]

I'm not talking about star wars

[hollow mist]

[fair pasture]

Laker z you share a last name with dragonball

Is a shaman more of a Goku or a Vegeta

[hollow mist]

I never watched it so sadly cannot comment i fear

[fair pasture]

Nooooooooooooooo

It's okay I will put my thinking cap on

[indigo ether]

Its ass that we need to spend 10 globals setting up in M+ pulls while other classes just press 2 buttons and slam

[delicate perch]

just don't do m+

[indigo ether]

M+ is "fun"

I wanna fotm reroll but im lazy to gear

worst thing though is not getting invited to keys

[wise hare]

its like the easiest time ever to gear alts lol

[indigo ether]

Whats an efficient method if you don't have friends carrying u in keys

[wise hare]

buy keys

idk get into a guild and do keys with them

[indigo ether]

im in a guild

[wise hare]

problem solved

[indigo ether]

I dont like asking for things

[wise hare]

ok but genuinly people do keys weekly

and worst case you just open up a group and invite ppl

whats the worst that can happen

its +10s

its not sience

[indigo ether]

True, I suppose. Im like a ratty low 240s on my unholy

[proven swallow]

Since when does ec sim higher than keeper on st? Or is it just in the burst window

[delicate perch]

burst window

on a sim

[craggy sonnet]

at least half of tww

[fresh salmon]

why is everyone playing keeper in raid then?

because starfire cast is too long?

[craggy sonnet]

Because raid is not a patchwerk encounter

There is movement, there are add spawns, damage amps

[fresh salmon]

sure

[foggy kelp]

if you play a tank/healer class its exceptionally easy to get to like 250 and you can just list your 10s and it takes no time to fill

[slender island]

also prob because people just look at archon / top logs and just copy the talents whatever they are, further skewing representation; EC is very competitive right now and if you play touch of the cosmos + starweaver it is very movement friendly, so don't let the top logs stop you from playing EC if you enjoy it 🙂

[rough flax]

Trust me if you fotm you not gonna have a good time either, cuz once you reach a certain treshhold. Everyone is playing what you are playing and the guy that has 1 score more in il or io is just getting the invite

Either you premade or you add ppl you had good runs with and do them consistently and trade keys with eachother

Like fotm and 3.4k rating is only getting you fast invites for +12

Cuz all ppl want is getting boosted in lfg

[fresh salmon]

do we have a special talent tree for baby keys? doing 10s atm for vault and mobs die way too quickly it's crazy

by the time I finish setting up my dots they are already 60%

[slender island]

meteor storm all the way

[fresh salmon]

ye idk I'll just play what's best tbh, I'm too noob on spec yet to decide whatever

[slender island]

i get that, but it should go without saying that what's best for you is what you can play best; just taking a build from top logs obviously will not automatically make you perform at the same level

[fresh salmon]

true

[lucid olive]

set up dots faster

i think if the mobs are dying that fast then the key is going well anyway, so you can either stick to the same talents and try to be quicker/more assertive in your decision making when you approach a pack and try to improve that way

or you can vibe and play around with different talents to find out what's fun and also improve that way

both options definitely have merit

there isn't like a fully realized "these talents are good for low keys" tbh

there isn't even one for high keys either

[fresh salmon]

ye I mean the amount of choices we have is a bit much

as a new spec player it's a bit overwhelming

in resto some nodes are plain trash so u never ever take them, simpler

[indigo ether]

id at least be able to get invites past 19s

also im not fearing for my life outside of barkskin and HOTW+Bear Form

idk how a big fat chicken isn't tanky

At least give us back the ability to cast on the move when SF is up

or in eclipse

idk make solar and lunar eclipse do unique things.

Maybe Lunar give cast on the move and Solar puts an absorb shield or does some healing

[lucid olive]

ew

[rough flax]

And make EC meta for m+ and never cast solar

[lucid olive]

i said it the other day, Solar Eclipse should turn Full Moon into Full Sun

or star or whatever

and CA should make it Full Equilibrium

since its both eclipses

[indigo ether]

what would a full sun do

same for Equilibrium

[lucid olive]

idk im not a dev

prob some nature dmg

[indigo ether]

more damage is boring though

[lucid olive]

nature dmg burn effect

[lucid olive]

having cool effects is not boring!!

you're a dps class

damage is what gets you picked for content

[indigo ether]

Cast on the move and being able to passive heal/absorb shield

[lucid olive]

worthless

whats passive healing gonna do if you're doing piss damage

[indigo ether]

true i guess. look at demo locks that bring fuck all in keys

[lucid olive]

good job healing yourself on the bench

[indigo ether]

with the worst kick in the game

[indigo ether]

im thinking more m+ than raid

Im riding pine for Lura

but I dont mind tbh

[lucid olive]

both depend heavily on how your spec is tuned

people overvalue utility in m+ when they talk about the meta

happens every tier

[indigo ether]

its about damage and survivability

[lucid olive]

"oh this spec is meta because this particular utility spell happens to be good for this specific dungeon rotation"

but it's almost always a cop-out cause you wouldnt take that spec if it didn't do the most damage

like when people pogged out over the Sigil of Chains -> Solar Beam shit in season 2

[indigo ether]

Boomkins do enough damage in most keys. We're just squishy, so why bring a boomkin when Guardian has motw

[lucid olive]

sure it's a strong combo and could carry some packs, but if Moonkin didn't do absurd dam on stacked AoE for that season you wouldn't play it

[indigo ether]

how about both

[craggy sonnet]

thats 🧢
look at wcl and actually compare how much dmg is done in top keys

[indigo ether]

nice utility + increased damage

[lucid olive]

moonkin is not squishy in m+

idk where people get that idea

[indigo ether]

We are lol

[lucid olive]

no

press bear form

it's a very OP button

you lose damage from being in bear form, but that's not a survivability problem

[indigo ether]

what other good class in m+ loses dps to gain some survivability

[lucid olive]

that's a damage problem

[lucid olive]

uhm

mage

shaman

[indigo ether]

Like I rarely die in M+ unless i get a terrible overlap of stuff

[lucid olive]

hunter

[indigo ether]

And I press bear a lot to incoming and telegraphed stuff

[indigo ether]

mages are more squishy than us

a light breeze tips them over

I just wanna get invited. And not have to wait until late night when people are desperate

and have no choice but to invite me to do keys

[lucid olive]

yeah but that wasnt your question

you asked who else loses dmg from defensive value

barrier is on the GCD

[craggy sonnet]

mirror image too, i think?

[lucid olive]

yeah

any class with defensives or self-healing spells on the GCD lose damage from using defensives

warlock with mortal coil as well

evoker with verdant and the other one

unless they removed those idk havent looked at evoker in forever

[indigo ether]

It's 1 GCD, though, and then they're back to blasting. I mean theres not that many things

where Im sitting in bear for more than 2-3 seconds

still hella clunky

[outer oasis]

the thing is frenzy regeneration not maintain when u swap form

[craggy sonnet]

no one said its the best thing ever to have to sit in bear

[ruby badger]

I like it

It's fun flavour

[indigo ether]

Ursine's Vigor has been decent for me

lasts just enough

[indigo ether]

Depends on when I have to shift.

If its in a cluster fuck then its not so fun

[indigo ether]

For the key levels im doing

im on 19s rn

[craggy sonnet]

ok .. i look at the first dungeon in the list (AA) .. top specs doing 220-230k, boomie doing 170-180k

25% more dmg .. hmmm

[indigo ether]

how much of that is padding on first boss

[round field]

its not padding if it needs to die

[indigo ether]

We troll if we're not ST that boss

[craggy sonnet]

it doesnt matter

[indigo ether]

but other classes have the ability to do both at the same itme

[craggy sonnet]

you can look at it yourself

[outer oasis]

Ridiculous Boomie bot strong on aoe this patch

Not strong*

[craggy sonnet]

2nd dungeon .. MT .. top specs doing 240k+, boomie does 190

[indigo ether]

https://tenor.com/view/scream-loud-scream-girl-kid-hispanic-girl-gif-3761151244536557927

I just wanna play a fucking bird

[round field]

no one is stopping u

[ruby badger]

I mean beyond 19s is pretty close to title

[jade flume]

Not that close

It will be at least 22s

[indigo ether]

Not interested in title

1% is good enough for me. I just like to be able to log on and not wait hours trying to get into a key

[round field]

yea then u have to play top 3 meta spec

or have friends

[outer oasis]

Hope blizzard dev read gamz’article

🙏

[craggy sonnet]

i think thats a no

[indigo ether]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-confused-gif-15712129875520007531

I add people after keys but I don't ask them to play again.

[round field]

[round field]

and then what

[charred mango]

so you just watch them from the friend list pane while they do higher keys

you’re in the chair

[ruby badger]

Yes but title keys rn are like 20s+21s

[indigo ether]

I don't think title will be 22s for NA

for EU and CN yeah

[round field]

yea na is dogshit

they will have lower cutoff

[indigo ether]

the big key pushers of NA past don't push anymore

[ruby badger]

but yeah unfortunately rossella you're too good

so you've hit the LFG wall

[indigo ether]

im not good. but I also dont want commitment

[ruby badger]

I mean anyone who plays M+ is dogshit

but you are good

If you've got resi 19s as a balance druid from pugging you're pretty cracked

[indigo ether]

nah im 18 resil but need a few more 19s

[round field]

goat

[ruby badger]

Then this is why you get no invites past 19s

As a DPS trying to get into a key that's not 1 key level above your resi is so fucked

[round field]

its like job market

[ruby badger]

Meta or no meta

[round field]

you need 19 timed to get invited into 19

[ruby badger]

People who time these keys as well rerun them to make their logs look better when people check them

[craggy sonnet]

what?

[ruby badger]

What

People re-run their highest level key if they didnt parse well

When you start doing 20-21s the DPS you get are all the same IO and people check their logs

It's not a great method but it is for sure used

[craggy sonnet]

is that what you do .. or?

[ruby badger]

I mean I don't push unless people in my guild want to

[indigo ether]

ive heard of it

[ruby badger]

But it's defo done

[indigo ether]

of people checking key logs

[ruby badger]

It's advertised in group titles, "must have 75+ avg" or whatever

• when I've listed my own key and asked why people who have this done already are rerunning it, they give me that answer

[craggy sonnet]

never in my life seen that in EU

[round field]

youi dont understand how ill in the head m+ pushers are

[ruby badger]

from like a couple days ago on EU

take a guess what his avg was as well

[lofty depot]

Parsing in m+

Locken

[ruby badger]

[indigo ether]

60s

[craggy sonnet]

half the keys arent even publicly logged

[indigo ether]

are they checking avg or key%

key% is more accurate

[ruby badger]

Idk I don't do it like I said

[craggy sonnet]

tbf, i havent really played this season

[ruby badger]

But I've heard it mentioned in passing from the title-ish people in my guild and stuff

[craggy sonnet]

but i did push before and never seen that shit

[ruby badger]

I think it's a result of the resi meta

[indigo ether]

saw it on reddit comp wow

[ruby badger]

where it's so common for multiple people to be at the same key levels done

[indigo ether]

about people in 19's and above checking log

[jade flume]

Resil is dogshit

[craggy sonnet]

whatever floats their boat

[ruby badger]

It should stop at 12

Or something like that idk

But like people need to spiral back down a little if they're not good

I've seen some horrendous pugs when we run as 4

[indigo ether]

it benefits organized groups

but removing resil can fuck individual players

I cant tell you how many key terrorist tanks ive encountered

That will fuck a key, leave then get insta invited

[ruby badger]

Yeah idk it's a difficult problem

But god it has created a strange environment

[indigo ether]

Like anytime a key depletes or I mess up, I usually stick around if the owner is willing to rerun it resil or not

[jade flume]

Resil would be ok if it required everyone to be resil

So you couldnt just get boosted perma

[craggy sonnet]

idk .. should just give you resil +1 but require the entire group to have that resil to not deplete the key

who cares

lemme play

[indigo ether]

then people will only invite resil

[craggy sonnet]

yeah, so? work your way up

its +1

[indigo ether]

resil makes keys more inclusive imo

[lofty depot]

Looks like they aren't parse farming smh scrubs

[indigo ether]

Some peeps are more chill because of it and will invite off meta stuff

[ruby badger]

They need to learn from Garyeet

[lofty depot]

Yea don't play m+

[ruby badger]

[grim mirage]

i wished the contrary where if you time all 18 you get resil 19 so you can push it and go forward
At some given point you'll have to get better to time cause you can't get carried so maybe skill floor will be up for a lvl or two but it wont really matter for end lvl pusher ^^

[craggy sonnet]

legit just said that

make it +1

then you'll just invite whoever and try it instead of waiting half an hour

[indigo ether]

true

i personally hate running my own keys

im rather impatient in forming.

[craggy sonnet]

but require everyone to have that resil level

so its at least mildly annoying to boost someone

[indigo ether]

sounds like that would make buying boosts more expensive

[drifting reef]

What is our recommend talent choices for simming raid? Seen people sim with convoke, is that correct?

[craggy sonnet]

it doesnt really matter

for gearing decisions

usually you just sim whatever you intend to run

[drifting reef]

Ah it’s that simple 🙂
trying to squeeze out the extra sim spa I can achieve.

Appreciate the answer

[lofty depot]

U can sim the st tree, but if ur a non-convoke enjoyer and don't play it ever, idk why u would

Tidbid ... If ur just a talent copier, u'll start playing convoke on fights

[jade flume]

Is 1min voke better

Was wondering if maybe 2 min voking could be better on saladman for the intermish pipe

[round field]

delete convoke already

replace it with frenzy

[wise hare]

yes

yes

[round field]

and make the talent below hysteria

gg

[wise hare]

yes

[round field]

spec saved

[wise hare]

the things i would do to play Venthyr once more

[round field]

u still can

just go revendreth

🥀

[drifting reef]

Unfortunately I am a copy enjoyer due to lack of knowledge

[lofty depot]

Ye

[lofty depot]

Start gaining knowledge

[drifting reef]

Teach me the ways master

[round field]

Ur barking up the wrong tree lilbro

[lofty depot]

What the

[round field]

[forest crest]

thinking about switching from frost mage to balance for m+ push, i also have BM hunter and demo lock both geared. Is it worth it to give balance a shot for m+ or should i stick with hunter or lock?

[merry crow]

best bet would be lock

[forest crest]

The think is frost mage now just lacks on AOE compared to other classes and the trash in m+ is what tanks hurts most, so thats why i want to switch

[merry crow]

balance isn't really played

unless you want to play bear

[forest crest]

Yeah, kinda true both balance and lock are ramp specs and from two of them lock is better, but balance has slightly better mobility and defensives (in my opinion, how i felt it when i was playing them).

[merry crow]

lock is way tankier its not particularly close. but if you arent pushing very high it doesnt matter at all

[lofty depot]

Balance isn't that much of a ramp spec anymore

[forest crest]

For me, i feel way more tankier as frost mage than lock, but i guess i am propably not using whole lock tool kit (mainyl coil, dark pact and resolve, healthstones).

[forest crest]

How so? i dont know that much about balance except basic rotation

[lofty depot]

Most people that think/thought that dot slow

They wait while tank is gathering and then say "everything is 50% HP by the time I press my CDs"

More of your damage is actually at the start of your CDs

[forest crest]

Yeah i get it, i was watching some videos and they said to place dots while tank is gathering so you are ready when they are grouped up

and how is ST on balance? i get its somewhere mediocre, not that good but also not terrible

[lofty depot]

I mean were never usually amazing

But most people aren't playing st builds so

Find out in a few weeks

[errant flint]

Can your crit stat be too low to trigger Astral Smolder in m+?

[lofty depot]

Ur bolts always trigger it

But, u always have some form of Crit %

[errant flint]

Its not showing up in my logs at all for entire dungeons.

[forest crest]

okay, thanks for responses, i guess i will try few runs and make decision

[lofty depot]

Can u show a log

[errant flint]

Lost the log its pulled up on my computer that is off rn.

I checked other logs its there but some others it wasnt

[lofty depot]

How does one lose a log

[errant flint]

Confused af

[errant flint]

Lots of logs frem

[lofty depot]

I mean idk what help want

[errant flint]

Me find

[crude cobalt]

anybody got a boomkin POV vod/video for mythic belorn?

[jaunty blaze]

crazy

[crude cobalt]

kids this is what happens when you dont use your brain

[jaunty blaze]

so the brain use approach is to ask for a pov before looking for one or

[crude cobalt]

that was self roast in case it wasn't clear lol

[lucid olive]

nah i got it

[jaunty blaze]

all good

[lucid olive]

i think watching kill POVs is overrated anyway

ideally you'd want to watch wipes but who has the time to watch through hours of a guild wiping

[craggy sonnet]

2min voke basically just as good as 1min voke. If you lose a 1min voke, maybe even slightly better (in a vacuum)

All about timing stuff

[lucid olive]

take Beloren as an example; watching POV of someone killing the boss won't teach how important it is to be aware of the quills you have to soak, or what to do if you get a bad wall of orbs, or how to deal with bad immune soak overlaps

or how important it can be to call kicks vocally

you'd have to sit through a lot of kill videos first to know what points people struggle on that can wipe you

which is the information you want to discern from a kill pov

timers and shit can be taken from lorrgs or whatever

[normal pilot]

if you reply to your own post do you ping yourself

[craggy sonnet]

Nop

Doesn't show the '@' as well

[lucid olive]

no, i did it because i didn't want clankz thinking it was a response to him

that seems to happen from time to time

[crude cobalt]

makes sense, thanks for the input!

[normal pilot]

damn clankz

[craggy sonnet]

Yea, that guy

[lucid olive]

i also think when raid leaders or officers say "make sure you have watched POVs of your class on the boss" they just want to make sure you do your research

but i think watching kill POVs is low value research

it's just a lot more available and easier

[crude cobalt]

yeah I mean things I want to learn are movements, preferences, any thing in particular to track that may seem helpful

[lucid olive]

with the exception being specific mechanics like "how do Moonkin players deal with the Rift Simulacrum at the start of P2 Alleria"

[royal zenith]

to be fair, watching 'a' pov is good... so if you combine it with watching a balance pov it's more efficient

[lucid olive]

yeah

like i think when people ask you to watch POV of the boss it's more to make sure you don't come in completely unprepared without a single clue whats going on

[royal zenith]

gone are the days we would go left or right to kill one (1) singular add with frenzy ramp tho

[lucid olive]

i think a lot of movement stuff is "learn by doing" personally, but there can be value watching someone do difficult parts

[silk shard]

what are the conditions when i want to pre-pool before an existing eclipse ends vs when i should zero out my AP by the end of an eclipse?

[lilac lantern]

Does raidbots work for balance druids? When simulating for dungeon slice it says its unreliable. When I got to icy veins it says use raid bots. Im confused what to rely on to figure out what items and talents I should be pursuing to maximize what I can do

[lofty depot]

Well raidbots works, dslice isn't recommended for like 90% of classes

[lilac lantern]

Is the only thing worth simming patchwerk?

[lofty depot]

#1473018731687841853 read the faq

[lofty depot]

Depends what youre doing after that eclipse is over

Typically ur dumping asp yes

[lilac lantern]

That link mentions raidbots but not how to use raidbots in a meaningful way. What are the types that are worthwhile for Balance Druids?

[lofty depot]

Yes it does

Scroll up and read the faq

[lilac lantern]

My bad, I see it now and more info. Thanks.

[normal pilot]

anyone have a 298 ribbon that can do a quick test. exactly how much int do you get on the 4rd proc? Or a 289 ribbon on the 2nd proc

[craggy sonnet]

you gotta look at how many eclipses you still wanna fit before your next burst window and how far out that is.
say .. you are playing incarn with 1min trees, then you can fit 2 eclipses after most incarns, that is 20+15+15=50s of in-eclipse time and you wanna press trees again after 60s. so effectively 10s outside eclipse.
you do want to squeeze everything out of incarn (dump ap), so you try to pool as much as you can coming out of it before your eclipse charges probably cap. and then you need to manage the time you still got outside of eclipse. that potentially means not spending as aggressively in the last 5s of your eclipse since its better to enter a fresh eclipse with more AP than it is to throw them out at the backend of one.

[lucid olive]

i have a 276 hero track one

i guess since you specified myth track ones it wont do anything

[normal pilot]

lemmee check if that'll work

[lucid olive]

actually i suppose the PTR has vendors

was gonna test the solar bolt thing with other on-use as well

[normal pilot]

276 will work too, the int value on 2nd proc

[lucid olive]

think its 238->250

[normal pilot]

hm ok. guess they do the truncation at the very end

[lucid olive]

238->250->262

[normal pilot]

oh hm. maybe not

what about 4th proc?

[lucid olive]

i'm on ptr and fetched a 289 one off the vendor if thats easier

but 289 one had different value in buff tooltip from item tooltip on the 1st proc

item says 268 but my buff said 269

[normal pilot]

289 works too just tracking down the rounding

the buff tooltip should be the correct one

what do you get for the 2nd/3rd/4th buffs

[lucid olive]

give me a second so i can just record it

keeping track of the buff sucks ass

[normal pilot]

rip wa

[lucid olive]

real

[normal pilot]

can you open the character sheet too, check that buff value matches the sheet int value

[lucid olive]

269->282->296->309

can look at character panel too to see if the stats change correctly

did go from 620 to 929 on the last proc so should be

went from 620 to 888 on the first proc tho

even tho buff says 269

but item says 268 which is correct?

unless my intellect when i'm naked has decimals

[normal pilot]

ok it seems to work as before then, they truncate when it applies

so the buff tooltip is wrong and rounds

[lucid olive]

is that bad or good

also what on-use trinket can i even test the solar bolt thing with..

isnt vaelgor the only on-use that gives a stat it scales with

emberwing gives haste so thats useless and the pit one gives crit

[craggy sonnet]

i thought there is a new random stat one?

[normal pilot]

can you get pvp trinkets?

[craggy sonnet]

from raid

[lucid olive]

yeah true can go grab one

[normal pilot]

altho i guess pvp trinket might not be scripted

[lucid olive]

this thing is so bad

[craggy sonnet]

oh, its a proc

[normal pilot]

huh there's not many stat on-use

[craggy sonnet]

only other thing is puzzle box

and thats cast time

[lucid olive]

yeah this season there are 3

and only vaelgor would work with solar bolt

theres a delver one

just gonna use that

[normal pilot]

which one is it

[lucid olive]

sealed chaos urn

gives all secondaries apparently

but also horrifies you after

but that doesnt matter

[normal pilot]

ya that should work

[lucid olive]

nah

same as with vaelgor

[normal pilot]

unlucky

[craggy sonnet]

pvp one works?

[lucid olive]

idk never bothered testing it

doesnt make a difference anyway

[craggy sonnet]

just curious cuz gas said that would likely not be scripted

[normal pilot]

guess it'd only be relevant if they bring back and old-enough dungeon for m+

[lucid olive]

we have a wotlk dungeon this season

how much older can it get

[normal pilot]

you have to have an on-use stat trinket

but also possible it's due to batching and not scripting so even the old style trinkets will be affected

[lucid olive]

think they update all those things usually for old dungeons no

like the dogshit 3m crit trinket from pit

[normal pilot]

nah even some modern trinkets use old style

soemtimes the dev just copy pastes

[craggy sonnet]

cant remember .. pot also aint working, right?

[lucid olive]

it is

[craggy sonnet]

ah ok

[normal pilot]

oh if pots also don't update then ya those aren't scripted

[lucid olive]

pots work

[normal pilot]

oh maybe it is the scripting then

unfortunate

[lucid olive]

gonna test again just to make sure

[craggy sonnet]

so we would just need them to queue the solar bolts if pretty much any trinket is gonna be affected

or just deal with it

[normal pilot]

prolly just a ca/inc issue

trinket+surge on macro still buffs surge right?

[lucid olive]

at this point

who tf knows

but i'll check