88 and then do profession first crafts from 89 to 90
#balance
lucid olive
dull dust
88 and then do profession first crafts from 89 to 90
like all the professions or just 2
lucid olive
however many it takes you to level
pseudo merlin
ngl i initially thought that said something else
dull dust
real
potent cargo
ngl i initially thought that said something else
pseudo merlin
wait is that emote the same dude?
potent cargo
drifting nova
the pally dude
dense steeple
massive, another currency THAT ISNT IN THE CURRENCY TAB
thats because its not a currency
drifting nova
wtf is arcane damage
pseudo merlin
I hate you kekkers
pseudo merlin
https://tenor.com/view/thanos-i-dont-even-know-who-you-are-marvel-gif-15769006
week 4 prog, thoughts
drifting nova
hmm yes
pseudo merlin
dull dust
spice patrol
Is it worth crafting the offhand now?
crude cobalt
do we need god? I'm doing tank damage in m0s wtf
lofty depot
u shouldnt be crafting anything ever, before mythic
lofty depot
do we need god? I'm doing tank damage in m0s wtf
well our tierset is worth 3x everyone elses... so ur missing 15% of ur damage
crude cobalt
i hope that makes it better, otherwise i'm just warming up the bench this tier
crude cobalt
my guild has a roster of 26 "cries in boomkin"
lofty depot
play better than 7 other people
crude cobalt
true
drifting nova
do we need god? I'm doing tank damage in m0s wtf
alot of classes are
crude cobalt
good to hear, more tuning to come anyway
drifting nova
"tuning"
upper anvil
I'M WIPING TO DEN
That doesn't surprise me
drifting nova
bout to flame on this tank
pulling like it's tww
where half the mobs have interrupts
only for damage
not curses and debuffs
drifting nova
big shock when you make interrupts more important
and dogs cant interrupt
its literally only normal
upper anvil
You're wiping in normal? 
upper anvil
Kekkers Ik I expect the worse. But it cant be this bad
drifting nova
I JUST HIT 90
upper anvil
Maybe its time you go back to arms
drifting nova
WHAT DO YOU WANT
upper anvil
Maybe its time to retire the boomkin
drifting nova
drifting nova
I thought monks were normally good at the game
this one..not so much
tainting the monk name
oh..he's from kazzak
classic
abstract parrot
norms…
delicate perch
Bro
naive siren
what is the best delve to go for lvling atm?
lofty depot
shadowguard point
u pull the 7 steelguards in the first area and then leave
na reset in like 8 hours
idk when it ends for eu
naive siren
so no quests or objectives, only mob-xp?
somber path
pretty much
naive siren
hm okay, i dont find any "steelguards" xD
jaunty blaze
If you're on eu the delves will have reset already
naive siren
ah ok. and thats only one story of the delve
need to destroy mana reserves
i am eu yes
lilac citrus
does anyone know how to get the second spark on ur alt charr ?
potent cargo
does anyone know how to get the second spark on ur alt charr ?
There’s three
Two quests**
the weekly from the main mf in the centre where u gotta do 1 of each content
And then the selectable one, which is kinda west of that main hub area
Like 3 dudes sitting in a tent
jaunty blaze
You might need to do the campaign skip on alt before
jaunty blaze
Just on the left side on the entrance
lilac citrus
Thanks fellas
royal zenith
i am a failure
bamkin is a faillure*
potent cargo
sometimes there is nothing to cook
chicken and rice can only ever be chicken and rice
tawny linden
Hi there, I am a returning resto main - boomkin off after being TWW hunter. I played from wotlk to draenor resto druid and resto shaman mainly with alt dps hunter (long break until tww). Resto is not a at all problem to me, but I would like to improve my offspec. Is there any channel (Azortharion like) or good guide to follow?
potent cargo
no matter how much sauce u put on it
cloud citrus
atleast its fun
potent cargo
it has its moments
round field
Hi there, I am a returning resto main - boomkin off after being TWW hunter. I pl...
no we dont offer resources locked behind paywalls sorry
jade flume
https://www.dreamgrove.gg/blog/balance/compendium this will be a good source when its updated
but its not updated currently, should be ready before season starts
modern hinge
Hey guys, returning player here playing Balance Druid. I’m running the Keeper of the Grove hero talents. Is it correct that I shouldn’t be using Wrath anymore even for single targets
tawny linden
So, as elune you basically remove wrath from action bars?
sudden flame
yes
tawny linden
Thanks
tawny linden
no we dont offer resources locked behind paywalls sorry
Never paid a single penny, the community there and the free access resources are enough to have solid information on each role.
potent cargo
if I recall correctly
fossil hemlock
Never paid a single penny, the community there and the free access resources are...
I just can't get behind a guy that put a "superior APL" behind a paywall, except he just ran a sim with a weapon 100 ilvl higher than what you could actually get
fossil hemlock
and only do the proper ones if u paid
The +100 weapon ilvl one is my favorite
potent cargo
i also dont care about it personally
but he was a massive rmter
i have done an ungodly amount of it myself so it's immaterial but surely the community cares about that shit more than I do 
modern hinge
That's good to know. Which community or site do you recommend for the best Balance Druid guides
?
potent cargo
dreamgrove.gg is probs gonna be the best overall typically, however it hasn't had published info updated because it's still being worked on cohesively
wowhead and icyveins both have guides up at the moment which will be fine for now, but u just have to remember that they are working towards guidelines set by the companies they work for, so the info is naturally subjective, may be based on data at the time, etc.
modern hinge
Thanks for the heads up. Until the site is updated, should I just check the Dreamgrove Discord for the latest info?
potent cargo
wowhead + asking questions in here if you're not sure on something will be sufficient
the guide writers are all in this ch + most of the best boomies in the world
modern hinge
Legends everywhere! Thanks for having me. My English isn't great so I'm using Gemini to translate—forgive me if I say anything unintended or weird lol
modern hinge
Haha, glad to hear that! Thanks for being so cool about it. Now time to go fix my Boomy rotation
twin lotus
what tuning do you peeps think we're gonna get, aura buff or something specific?
jaunty blaze
Probably minor aura and starsurge
potent cargo
what tuning do you peeps think we're gonna get, aura buff or something specific?
aura buff is what we need, but it'll probably just be some minor increases to our filler spells I'm sure
can't have anything cool just 20% increase to wrath and starfire 
jaunty blaze
potent cargo
too much sauce on spenders and we become a lil too cracked in pvp
jaunty blaze
Idk they can adjust for pvp no?
But we will see i don't expect major buffs
Demo get -3% we get +3% and the world is right again
potent cargo
they can but depending on where it hits in the season
round field
too much sauce on spenders and we become a lil too cracked in pvp
you say that like blizzard gives half a rats ass about pvp
potent cargo
they just let shit rock forever
like something will become op accidentally
and it'll be that way for the rest of teh seas
twin lotus
would be nice to get some starfall/DoTs buffs so we are good at cleave
swift elbow
Isn’t our aoe already good ?
jaunty blaze
It's ok
twin lotus
xalence, i am trying to sandbag here can u chill a bit
jolly delta
dreamgrove.gg is probs gonna be the best overall typically, however it hasn't ha...
it's still being worked on cohesively
yeahhh right... being worked on
jaunty blaze
Not the best
jolly delta
(jk the first update should hopefully be out today/tomorrow)
jolly delta
<:pogg:1041322680844038245>
nothing particularly exciting to be clear
just basic updates with sims using the current APL
just so that its not completely outdated
jaunty blaze
Ok I lower my excitement level
jolly delta
more stuff should hopefully come before s1
jaunty blaze
jolly delta
Will cooldown planer be updated
yup
jaunty blaze
Nice
potent cargo
our aoe can be good once ramped but
depends on fight dmg profiles and shit
we are gonna be useless in snap aoe
(most of what is in raid)
outpaced/outclasses by proper cleavers
not as good as destro/sp will be in council/2tar
you only get so many "boomy" style fights in raids every xpac/couple of xpacs, and in dungeons yes it can be strong just depends on how things are being pulled, what you play with, how much you're gonna have to aoe and what cds you are committing etc
trail vale
it feels like if there isnt a big pull or more than 6 targets my aoe is ass
compared to one click mage
or hunter
or any other class tbh 😄
potent cargo
atm it will feel rough because nothing has any hp and damage is soaked up instantly, when we're in proper keys there will be a bit more time for our damage to get online and high burst aoe classes will taper off; but inevitably even in uncapped aoe or when we're fully juiced there are a heap of other specs/classes that can do insane output, too
trail vale
anyone simmed a more effecitve aoe build than that one in icy?
potent cargo
I haven't looked at the build but you could check wowhead m+ build in the overview section
if you're looking for a build to crank m0s just go guardian 
, the builds up now are presumably intended for higher dungeon content
twin lotus
yes for m0s just go kotg right now and save ur sanity
sudden flame
Go guardian and save your sanity
twin lotus
facts
make an action bar and feel it with RAZE, the momment it turns to RAVAGE smash head on keyboard
jolly delta
make an action bar and fill it with the 1 button rotation etc etc
lone turret
anyone simmed a more effecitve aoe build than that one in icy?
played few M0 with meteor and mushrooms and did way more damage
lofty depot
Can't wait to be back to manual mushrooms and people complain
Also, imagine all these people taking wrath off their bars, and keeper be better in m+
lofty depot
Real
royal zenith
Starfires blergh
lofty depot
Yea but u don't only Starfire silly
royal zenith
Starfire on ST is dogshit
Especially when bosses will actually matter…
(First 3 days)
lofty depot
Keeper more defensive aswell
obtuse jungle
Keeper more defensive aswell
manual mushroom feels nice tho 🙂
lofty depot
Yea u got a lot of buttons to press
obtuse jungle
i mean if we don't count what we use every 30 sec or so we have like 4 or 5 if you also remove defensive idk, we spam the 5 same button and then oops incarn or eclipse here and there you feel me ?
but thats also true some other classes has 3 button tho
am i crazy to think that ?
obtuse jungle
explain
jaunty blaze
Was supposed to be a joke
lofty depot
When u start a new pack with CDs ur talking doting everything 2 buttons, possibly entering eclipse prior to incarning.... Dumping asp, then foe building asp to then trees incarn dumping again
jaunty blaze
If you don't count setup you pretty much only starfire and starfall
lofty depot
If u wanna add mushrooms to that rotation 🙂 but it does do good damage
Wow yes, rotational buttons
I build and spend, only 2 buttons wow wow
obtuse jungle
i mean you know what i meant XD we only use like 2 or 3 button at a time
😄
sometime 4 or 5
lofty depot
When we ran flare and mushroom, what do u think people complained about
obtuse jungle
really ?
lofty depot
Yes....
obtuse jungle
wow okay didn't know it was like that
jaunty blaze
Tbf flare is ass to use
obtuse jungle
flare you mean foe ?
jaunty blaze
No stellar flare
obtuse jungle
ah i remember that thing
jaunty blaze
Another dot but with cast time
obtuse jungle
ye its been a while that no ?
lofty depot
Wahh the cast time wahhh wahh
lofty depot
ye its been a while that no ?
That's not the point
obtuse jungle
yeah the point is if we need to press more than 4 different button at the same spand of 10 seconds people complain
lofty depot
The m+ andies want their 3 button EC build
Mind can't handle having wrath on their bars, u think they want to a cast something besides starfire
obtuse jungle
bro kotg feels more bursty and more versatile but idk how it perform compare to ec that had 3 button
jaunty blaze
It won't be much apart rn
lofty depot
It could be 👀
obtuse jungle
but kotg will be for sure better in boss tho
jaunty blaze
I mean i don't mind
obtuse jungle
in kotg don'T we have more insta cast as well ?
obtuse jungle
since we add mushroom + treants + fury of elune maybe idk ?
lofty depot
Also wrong opener is gonna hit so hard soon
obtuse jungle
wdym ?
jaunty blaze
Wrong opener and minigamers
obtuse jungle
if you mess up your opener you are fucked ?
jaunty blaze
Not fucked but less dam
lofty depot
if you mess up your opener you are fucked ?
That's not what that means
Is just a meme I did for a while where people were wasting procs in opener
And when u see something like this.....
People are bound to fuck it up
obtuse jungle
people always fuck up proc if they can't follow a sheets even sometime when you get too much proc we all are overwhelm i feel like
lofty depot
Opener could be 1 wraths.... Could be 6
lofty depot
Well there's also cosmos procs, weaver procs, not capping asp in that sequence
lofty depot
Well it was... But ur pressing solar so if u press Starfire at the end there it changes ur eclipse
So it's 3/4 wraths
But I meant the sequence after solar eclipse press
plucky valley
What’s most important is saying “shoogabang” when you press starsurge
It’s a substantial dps increase you have to say it
obtuse jungle
i have a question , why don't we do wrathx3 then dot then eclipe then wrath then trants then burst +
why do we do a sstarsuge too in there don't that drain our ap ?
unless we have the free cost talent or the talents that cost less ?
lofty depot
To use the ascendent eclipse buff
obtuse jungle
imma go try that right now
lofty depot
Is 20% inc on surge/starfall
lofty depot
Then we use fury of elune to build asp, while casting wrath, then re Sunfire before incarn, trees, incarn, slam
obtuse jungle
ye
just to make sure we eclipse first then incarn then eclipe and then incarn with treants again ?
jaunty blaze
Don't forget your insta wrath
obtuse jungle
ye i was talking only cd wise
lofty depot
Don't forget your insta wrath
Guess what, it's Starfire in incarn 🙂
lofty depot
Yessem
obtuse jungle
ye but we do wrath its only for the insta cast we do starfire right ?
plucky valley
Guess what, it's Starfire in incarn 🙂
Wait wut
lofty depot
The instant cast is wrath in solar and Starfire in incarn
plucky valley
We cast starfire during incarn on st when playing keeper?
obtuse jungle
only the insta cast
lofty depot
Just the instant cast at the start
plucky valley
Ohhhhh
plucky valley
Hurray!
obtuse jungle
where did you put FOE in your sequenece ?
lofty depot
After ur 3 spender dump in solar
obtuse jungle
so on the oppener (first 10 you don't use it ?
obtuse jungle
woah you just blow my mind here
lofty depot
obtuse jungle
is the dammage output too slow or we will overcap ?
lofty depot
It's like 8s
Sometimes u'll overcap for a gcd at the start of incarn
But u shouldn't make it a habit
lofty depot
Well that sample is 6 lol
obtuse jungle
i'll try something
obtuse jungle
lofty depot
M+ build silly
plucky valley
🧐
obtuse jungle
no its a raid build silly
lofty depot
Well there's no ST boss in raid
obtuse jungle
haven't look really into this one tho
runic kindle
so boomie in theory should be positioned to be pretty ok
plucky valley
In theory sure
runic kindle
like they didn't put a single patchwerk in any of the raids at all lol
obtuse jungle
ye your sequence is better
lofty depot
Love split cleave argument when we've only been good at 1 of them in the last expansion
runic kindle
I mean I did say "in theory" lol
obtuse jungle
so what kind of talent will you be running ?
lucid olive
so boomie in theory should be positioned to be pretty ok
yes
It's in a much better spot to do well this raid compared to the state before previous raids
obtuse jungle
with a little buff we would be in a good spot to be good XD
obtuse jungle
i mean if they nerf us they need to nerf 80% of class out there no ?
lofty depot
Well I didn't say they weren't gonna buff us after... I'm just saying, they need to nerf the tierset
copper gate
Has anyone come across a decent scrolling combat text for midnight
obtuse jungle
too much dmg in aoe ?
lofty depot
Well... Both the 2p and 4p give too much damage.... Id presume they need the shooting stars number from 50% to 25%
lucid olive
Well... Both the 2p and 4p give too much damage.... Id presume they need the sho...
yeah this is my thought as well
only the 2pc needs a nerf rly
runic kindle
the tierset does seem pretty strong just looking at it. I'd prefer them move a little bit of that power out of the set and into the base kit, just because the difference between week one tier boomies and like week 3 will be stark as is
obtuse jungle
i mean when i watched tettles video he iwas getting doomed by a bear and most of the tank when he was doing m+ in beta
lucid olive
problem is both the bonuses being like 8-9%
lofty depot
Id presume they take the Starfall and surge buff off the 4p aswell
cloud citrus
even with tier we are not strong
lofty depot
The problem is our tierset gives us too much of a bonus
And being that massive of a increase isn't good
obtuse jungle
ye so nerf tier set but buff base amg ?
lofty depot
Yes
cloud citrus
ye
lucid olive
I will be contrarian and say no
cloud citrus
lets see what blizzard cooks up
runic kindle
with the way that M+ is balanced with less required kicks and more rot I do think solar beam is a stronger utility than it used to be. Lots of packs with tons of nominal cast casters that you can just shut up for 6 seconds and have them focus on the tank. I might be off base there though.
lucid olive
Buff everybody elses tier set to match moonkin
obtuse jungle
explain your mind gamz
lucid olive
thoughts?
runic kindle
moonkin aura in pve again would be insane pls blizz
cloud citrus
Decay is always better than Inflation, Bringin the top down to the bottom always better then the opposite!
lucid olive
As long as the delta between lowest spec and highest spec is in an acceptable state
then nothing else matters
cloud citrus
if the delta is low then content is harder though
acoustic zealot
As long as feral is never good again nothing else matters
obtuse jungle
wtf
acoustic zealot
Shit spec
sudden flame
wtf
lucid olive
As long as feral is never good again nothing else matters
leave
lofty depot
Wanna see a st sim :p
runic kindle
True. Issues with balance effecting you are usually more perception than reality which is unfortunate. But it is what it is. Even if boomkin is strong, if the perception is that it is bad, people will be like "lol no why would I take that"
lofty depot
Feral big dam
obtuse jungle
i want to see feral topping the meter with balance
cloud citrus
i would rather you link me a random details pull
lucid olive
Feral deserves to be good and Moonkin deserves to be good
Spec competition is cringe
fossil hemlock
Real
runic kindle
all specs deserve to be good except aug
obtuse jungle
aug deserve love as well
acoustic zealot
Spec competition is cringe
Taking jokes seriously is cringe
lofty depot
Gamz being a contrarian
fossil hemlock
I guess right now they both get to compete for 2nd best druid dps spec
lucid olive
there are no jokes on the internet
obtuse jungle
kele is right tho
acoustic zealot
Also is feral actually good right now in st?
cloud citrus
Who can hold 20litres of petrol, JERRYCAN
tawny linden
In cleave fight do you keep using starsurge to spend AP or just use Starfall plus keep dots up (split cleave)? Plus is it better elune or keeper in stacked cleave?
lofty depot
Depends on ur definition of good
runic kindle
I'm mostly joking, I do think aug is a problem in that its the only class that does what it does so its impossible to balance, give us more dedicated support specs and it would be 100% fine
acoustic zealot
Link the st sim you mentioned
lofty depot
In cleave fight do you keep using starsurge to spend AP or just use Starfall plu...
Starfall 2+
U use surge procs tho
lucid olive
Link the st sim you mentioned
Sim is not an accurate representation of spec power
tawny linden
U use surge procs tho
Yes, considering free starsurge proc. Thanks
lofty depot
Link the st sim you mentioned
There's no St bosses so the sim doesn't matter
obtuse jungle
its about lining up our cd with the boss i guess ?
lucid olive
Comparing sim numbers between specs is valuable as a representation for APL quality and not for comparing specs damage
It's why the Simulationcraft website has the default profiles on there in a list too
lofty depot
Big content
obtuse jungle
is there mainly gonna be a single build for raid that will be optimal or more than one (since i guess you guys played the beta and tested them )
runic kindle
Yes, considering free starsurge proc. Thanks
the kind of "finnicky" hard part of balance is making sure to utilize your free procs correctly, becuse you get free star surges, and free starfalls, but you also can get a proc that gives you a free use of either. So tracking which ones you have is important, because uses of one can give you free uses of the other.
acoustic zealot
Sim is not an accurate representation of spec power
There’s no accurate representations since tuning hasn’t happened, but thanks for the advice
cloud citrus
most of hte mythic tests were done b4 a lot of tuning
lucid olive
is there mainly gonna be a single build for raid that will be optimal or more th...
No way to know, anyone who says one or the other is making shit up
lofty depot
Uhhh, I assume there will be a build and u change 1-2 talents depending on what u need
Most of are talents are dogshit
So it changes next to nothing tbf
lucid olive
There’s no accurate representations since tuning hasn’t happened, but thanks for...
Sims will not be an accurate representation of spec power after week 10 when tuning is over either
lucid olive
Good thing you can play Incarn now then
lofty depot
Pulsar doesn't need to come back to make convoke bad lol
obtuse jungle
i mean its just weird how every expansion dk and warlock end up with the strongest class in early xpack most of the time XD
lofty depot
It simmed high but was unrealistic and the only reason u brought 2 was for gate
obtuse jungle
i mean thd lock was top 5 in almost every boss in nerubar or close to it no ?
when early on the xpac
lucid olive
RWF players do not count
obtuse jungle
my bad then
lofty depot
Nerunar wasn't left tier
fossil hemlock
Nerunar wasn't left tier
Tbf they said "early expansion"
lofty depot
And they also only brought 1 lock there iirc
obtuse jungle
but gamz aren't you one of them too ?
lucid olive
but 2 warlocks were still mandatory for dimmy
obtuse jungle
in the RWF ?
lucid olive
no
fossil hemlock
but 2 warlocks were still mandatory for dimmy
It was doable with 1 but holy fuck it was cursed
lucid olive
i got like 150wr on dimensius or somethng
lofty depot
I think we killed boss with 1
obtuse jungle
you are with echo ?
lofty depot
Cuz our 2nd was being a c word
lucid olive
no
fossil hemlock
1 lock in p1 just meant 1 side gated as far as possible and the other side ran fast
acoustic zealot
No rwf players are active in class discords afaik
past falcon
ooo tosic
lofty depot
Cute he has those pictures ready
lucid olive
no I just did /ginfo and screenshot it
lofty depot
Mmhm mmhm
past falcon
Beef Beef
fossil hemlock
No rwf players are active in class discords afaik
Can't blame them tbh
runic kindle
I feel like convoke shouldn't be on a choice with incarn if they want convoke to exist. Incarn is just too good, they'd have to make convoke absolutely busted to compete.
lucid olive
wrong
lofty depot
That's just not true
lofty depot
What
lucid olive
if incarn is good too for the convoke choice node then why have i not specced into incarn since dragonflight
????
obtuse jungle
why is convoke not a thing anymore ?
runic kindle
You're specced into convoke right now?
lofty depot
We might not play it no
But u said having 2 eclipses
We always have 2 eclipses in every build
lucid olive
convoke is a thing, but the nerf to treants dmg amp and moving power over to Shooting Stars improved Incarn a lot
runic kindle
You have 4 with incarn
lofty depot
That's not what that does
runic kindle
the charges are seperate and on seperate buttons as far as I can tell/have been playing so how does it not do that
lucid olive
yeah convoke is unplayable guys
lofty depot
the charges are seperate and on seperate buttons as far as I can tell/have been ...
U think u have 4
runic kindle
I mean I'm open to learning why I'm wrong
but just saying I'm wrong doesn't get me there
acoustic zealot
Convoke sees play for belo 100%
lucid olive
having 2 more charges of eclipse is like
Incarn and CA both have 2 charges, the charges is the Whirling Stars talent
lofty depot
Incarn is 2 charges
lucid olive
The only difference between Incarn and CA is the increased Crit chance and the 5s extra duration
lofty depot
Eclipse is it's own button, but gives solar/lunar eclipse
Incarn isn't "so good" that u never use convoke
lucid olive
CA/Incarn also give both Eclipses at once; which is why the opener uses Eclipse first in order to get it on cooldown before using Treants/Incarn.
^This is inherently a problem with the spec and something I'll bring up in feedback to Blizzard since the learning curve from the Eclipse->CA interactions for new players is steep and the interactions are inherently anti-synergistic
lofty depot
Perception of "it gives me both eclipses so it's just better" isn't correvt
runic kindle
I think thats a misunderstanding of what I'm saying
its more uptime on eclipse
using a charge of incarn does not use a charge of eclipse
at least as far as I can tell
lucid olive
Using a charge of CA also does not use a charge of Eclipse
Incarn is quite literally better because they moved damage away from our burst with the Keeper nerf
So Convoke is less valuable because our dmg profile flattened out
Convoke/Incarn are also more or less sidegrading
Which one you pick will come down to the fight
But since most of the fights have add focus then Incarn will likely be better
runic kindle
I mean convoke being better for infrequent burst needs sounds right
lucid olive
If the fights had bunch of dmg amps and "do a lot of dam in 8 seconds" type mechanics then Convoke would be naturally better
dusk nacelle
i'm gonna be asking a lot of questions about raiding healing pretty soon after reading up on it some more, I just got a raid healer spot
lucid olive
The balancing between Convoke/Incarn is probably the best it has been since the new talent trees were introduced
acoustic zealot
Why would incarn matter when boomy has always had ramping add damage
lucid olive
I think if an add spawns that you want to kill in 5 seconds then Moonkin probably one of the best specs for that right now
lofty depot
I mean convoke being better for infrequent burst needs sounds right
Convoke is a cd u use with other CDs like trees and ca... U don't just use it randomly
twin lotus
yeap, new mastery and potential for the quick starfall dmg
lucid olive
yeah Convoke is not infrequent, it's very static timers
runic kindle
Convoke is a cd u use with other CDs like trees and ca... U don't just use it ra...
no I get that thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying if a fight lines up with a bunch of medium health adds coming out with your convoke/other burst cds
runic kindle
see yeah thats not intuitive at all lol
lofty depot
U don't press convoke with adds
kindred token
How does Incarnation: Chosen of Elune works with Keeper of the Grove, it should be for Elune talents instead, no?
lofty depot
It's worse on aoe
runic kindle
is convoke not smart enough to use more starfalls in aoe is it like truly random
lofty depot
How does Incarnation: Chosen of Elune works with Keeper of the Grove, it should ...
Why would it not work with keeper?
We played it on stix
lofty depot
is convoke not smart enough to use more starfalls in aoe is it like truly random
That's not how it works no
lucid olive
is convoke not smart enough to use more starfalls in aoe is it like truly random
its not truly random
acoustic zealot
Pop trees pop incarn
lofty depot
It presses it once
lucid olive
but on avg it uses 1 Starfall each cast
runic kindle
ah well that makes sense then
lofty depot
Wheres the tranquility cast 
lucid olive
chart is too old
acoustic zealot
Seems to like rake a lot
lofty depot
Don't stand in melee and it won't like it
lucid olive
it's because the character was standing in melee
the sheet was populated from a log where the character was melee hitting the dummy to stay in combat
if it was in range those rakes would be swapped with rejuv/regrowth casts
acoustic zealot
Will never understand why it queues up healing spells on a dps spec
lucid olive
since Convoke deck refreshes when combat drops you have to stay in combat for the entire duration to get accurate data from the sample size
lucid olive
Will never understand why it queues up healing spells on a dps spec
It uses druid spells
Whether it's Rake or Rejuv actually doesn't matter for your dmg
runic kindle
I'm assuming the elune M+ build is probably just always on incarn then from what you're telling me, but this has been pretty hard to follow tbh. You were not wrong about boomkin being on the more esoteric side this time around.
runic kindle
wowhead and icy veins typically just say do this do this but don't say why which can be a problem for improving.
lucid olive
especially with EC
fossil hemlock
that talent almost exclusively ST
Just proc full moons or?
lofty depot
Well EC isn't exactly hard to play
runic kindle
EC takes wrath off your bars so its naturally gonna be easier lol
fossil hemlock
Full Moon sqrt aoe scaling
Still aoe damage
lucid olive
I wouldn't say EC is easier
fossil hemlock
EC takes wrath off your bars so its naturally gonna be easier lol
I don't think that's a qualifier
runic kindle
It takes a choice out of the equation.
lucid olive
what choice
runic kindle
I'm joking about taking it off my bars
lofty depot
There's a lot of people that arent
lucid olive
Probably different for each person, but EC has more positional requirements and is more reliant on uptime and essentially harder to pull off optimally despite the rotation giving you brain worms after 20 minutes
runic kindle
what choice
look at it from the perspective of someone who doesn't understand the class, who doesn't know when to wrath and when not to wrath. Thats a choice they can make, I get that there is no "choice" optimally but you see what I mean when I frame it that way.
lofty depot
Well the guide tells u when to wrarh
runic kindle
I understand that but moment to moment a new player will not always make the correct choice
lucid olive
yeha I get it
runic kindle
so it removes the burden of that choice, even if it makes things harder elsewhere.
lofty depot
Well new player doesn't know they have eclipse as a button
So where do we draw the line of reading talents
lucid olive
Eclipse is a button?
acoustic zealot
That’s not true either
lofty depot
There's people that come in here asking why they can only go into lunar eclipse
lucid olive
How can Eclipse be a button when the talent icon is a circle
Active button talents are squares
lofty depot
These are average, read ur talents problems
lucid olive
lofty depot
I don't think u need a sim to figure out Starfire does more damage in ec
kindred token
I think it does
runic kindle
yeah I mean if you don't read your talents thats on you
lucid olive
yeah I mean if you don't read your talents thats on you
lots of players don't fully read their talents
and thats okay
you don't need a phd level understanding of the spec
runic kindle
My statements have been more general "I've never played balance before, but I have played the game extensively" and just questions or observations of how the class is a little less intuitive than it seems on paper.
lucid olive
yeha thats the moonkin revelation
jade drift
you don't need a phd level understanding of the spec
i just ctrl c talents and play the game
works 94,32% of the time
lucid olive
People are told that Moonkin is super easy and braindead and basically BM hunter in an uglier costume
runic kindle
devourer is the most snooze class I have ever played tbh
jade drift
I leveled 3 moonkins
what have u done
fossil hemlock
devourer is the most snooze class I have ever played tbh
It's not super complex but I still find it fun
lucid olive
Most fun iteration of Moonkin in over 2 years
runic kindle
I imagine devourer might be kind of fun with a lot of haste but like. then my hand will hurt from pressing consume faster
fossil hemlock
And there are some optimisations you can do in regards to carrying buffs/souls over between meta and not meta
runic kindle
gotta spam twice as fast to not have downtime lol
time to put on hold to cast I guess
boomer hands
lofty depot
Most fun iteration of Moonkin in over 2 years
Can't wait to look at r1 and he has 10 more weaver procs than me
lucid olive
Can't wait to look at r1 and he has 10 more weaver procs than me
its fine, it doesnt beat the Smolderon ranks anyway
looking at R1 and seeing Dakd not casting a spender for 25 seconds
lofty depot
Giga chad
runic kindle
resource capping? Whats that
tawny linden
I played hunter quite exensively in all the specs on different exps. Not totally brainless class, but way easier than many specs in the game. I still see boomie not for beginners and needs way more effort to raise good numbers
runic kindle
Starlord is also so weird coming from other classes btw.
lofty depot
We had a cool talent back then and he was holding asp to not proc it
runic kindle
I like it, but its weird
lucid olive
wheres the silvermoon quartermaster
lofty depot
Fairview
runic kindle
Next to the party for the weekly rune quest
acoustic zealot
We had a cool talent back then and he was holding asp to not proc it
Pulsar was good
lofty depot
Starlord is also so weird coming from other classes btw.
Why is it weird
Press spender, get haste
runic kindle
its weird because it stacks to 3 and resets when you press eclipse. I can't think of another class that operates that way
it kind of forces you to pool properly which is neat
lofty depot
Well we used to be able cancelaura it
tawny linden
I don't see the logic behind having to refresh starlord from 0 everytime whereas a shorter uptime timer with refresh would be nicer
lofty depot
We would've cancel aura'd it at the end of eclipse to then get full starlord to spam wrath out of eclipse
runic kindle
If starlord just reset duration every cast it might as well just be a passive haste increase.
lofty depot
Then rebuild asp
runic kindle
Fair enough
lofty depot
Well it's never reset duration like that
U could just cancel the buff
Before this expansion it didnt reset on eclipse
lofty depot
I don't see the logic behind having to refresh starlord from 0 everytime whereas...
U spend 3 surges at start of eclipse regardless
runic kindle
I don't see the logic behind having to refresh starlord from 0 everytime whereas...
its because of its finite, intensity stacking, but no duration stacking, that you want it refreshed to 0 every eclipse so you get full value of out your eclipse window
Its just pretty unique in its mechanics compared to other casters is more what I'm saying
I get them wanting to simplify it but not including a cancel aura macro thats sweatier than their design intent.
lucid olive
dogshit spell
lucid olive
I get them wanting to simplify it but not including a cancel aura macro thats sw...
no
lucid olive
I deliberately warned them about Starlord cancelaura during the alpha
glad they removed it
lucid olive
with this version of Eclipse and Starlord you could just cancelaura when Eclipse has 2-3 seconds left, spend for all 3 stacks and guarantee a fresh Starlord during Eclipse downtime
that would be too sequence-y
runic kindle
Well either way they agreed with you so lol
tawny linden
Would you consider that a min max or how a boomie should be played?
lofty depot
Minmax
lucid olive
but most minmax stuff also gets picked up the playerbase
cause people think it's something they are forced to do for their dmg
lofty depot
People parsing 60 think they need cancelauras to do damage
When they need to press more buttons
jaunty blaze
Just press buttons
lucid olive
WoW numbers are weird, someone will say "this talent is unplayable" and it's really just 0.4% behind and that difference could be made up just by proccing more and having better uptime
tawny linden
definetely, but understanding how a "fail" on managing cancel aura could affect our damage output, while focusing first on essentials
lucid olive
The overengineering of sims has skewed the perception on how close talents are
runic kindle
yeah people do get caught up on the nitty gritty when their uptime sucks that is for sure true
fix your uptime then worry about that
lucid olive
but that'll be fixed in a few years when everyone who has learned SimC has ended up quitting the game and the module upkeep falls into obscurity
tawny linden
I played Boomie back to Wotlk and was pretty funny and amazing. Now that I am going back boomie as off I feel totally lost
lofty depot
Gastank will never quit
lucid olive
@normal pilot whats the last raid boss you killed
runic kindle
but that'll be fixed in a few years when everyone who has learned SimC has ended...
did no one pick up the torch?
jolly delta
but that'll be fixed in a few years when everyone who has learned SimC has ended...
bro
in a year you'll have ai running the sims for you
runic kindle
and they'll still be wrong because the sim software is vibecoded and doesn't take into account all the information correctly. lol
AI is not the magic wonder pill, and it won't be. It works off of data sets and data sets are frequently not 100% accurate.
acoustic zealot
With incarn being better than convoke in raid wouldn't our secondary prio become mast > haste again instead of mast > crit
lofty depot
Not necessarily
lucid olive
and they'll still be wrong because the sim software is vibecoded and doesn't tak...
you're gonna have to explain this one sir
lofty depot
Smolder likes crit
lucid olive
how is SimC vibe coded
runic kindle
I'm not saying simc is vibe coded, I'm responding to the AI will solve this for you comment lol
lofty depot
The sim likes mastery > Crit=haste
jolly delta
AI is not the magic wonder pill, and it won't be. It works off of data sets and...
just so that we're clear, I'm a senior software engineer that specifically works on AI development
lucid olive
vinter the vibecoder
lofty depot
Senior meaning old or
wild dune
vinter actively helping push society towards destruction
lucid olive
My favorite vibecoded website Dreamgrove.gg
runic kindle
I mean tech bros are gonna sell their product. I'm not saying it doesn't have its uses lol
jolly delta
Senior meaning old or
señor
lofty depot
Vinter known tech bro
jolly delta
My favorite vibecoded website Dreamgrove.gg
dreamgrove was never vibecoded tbh
kindred token
My favorite vibecoded website Dreamgrove.gg
It's the best 🙂
lucid olive
señor
yo you need to tell me how to set up vscode so i can get DG previews again
xddd
jolly delta
I still like to write my own code so at least there's that
lucid olive
I fucked up my old repo so had to clone it again
jolly delta
vinter actively helping push society towards destruction
real
no tbh im pretty invested in ai safety etc but
a man still gotta eat
doing the best I can to stay relevant and not end up jobeless in 2 years
lofty depot
no tbh im pretty invested in ai safety etc but
So was del spooner
wild dune
real
they were gonna put up an AI data center in my area that was quoted at using more power than our largest city here
glad it got shot down
lucid olive
no tbh im pretty invested in ai safety etc but
so was Sarah Connor
runic kindle
Yeah I mean I might be a little salty about the whole deal because my state did end up building those data centers and my utility bill is going up so opinions may objectively have alterior reasons. In any case.
I would have 0 issue with it if there were provisions for the data center to pay proportionally to use but that'll never happen
lofty depot
Thanks obama
wild dune
obamna
runic kindle
lol I mean there are other reasons too but the electric bill is a direct result of the data center verifiably
i'm not dumb lol
round field
why would u be paying for the data center bill and not the data center
runic kindle
why would u be paying for the data center bill and not the data center
stress on the grid increases the price per killowat hour for everybody
its a supply and demand issue
runic kindle
they obviously still pay their own bill
wintry hill
heyo, resto druid here trying to explore a dps spec so it's easier to do stuff in solo, I have a hard time choosing between Elune and Keeper of the grove, any advices ?
wild dune
^
fossil hemlock
Yeah, that
runic kindle
bear is mega op for solo
fossil hemlock
If your goal is just to solo bear is goated for that
wintry hill
flip a coin
Tail... what do I do now ?
lofty depot
Well feral is ass, so now u play that
wintry hill
I.. really don't like bear, I'm more of a caster person
lucid olive
Tail... what do I do now ?
You need to choose which one is tails before flipping!!
eager raft
Play keeper literally never play Elunes chosen
jolly delta
stress on the grid increases the price per killowat hour for everybody
You dont hear people complaining about steel industries and oil refineries
lofty depot
Smh, gamz writes apl. But can't tell people the steps of flipping coin
jolly delta
Idk
It's a complicated topic and I while I agree that its an issue it should probably be discussed in a more nuanced way
And not in #balance
lucid olive
You dont hear people complaining about steel industries and oil refineries
The coal factory that's killing the atmosphere is okay because black smoke is part of being a red-blooded american
lofty depot
And not in <#121880895211831302>
Balance my electric bill
runic kindle
You dont hear people complaining about steel industries and oil refineries
oh I absolutely do. But those have been closed down in my area for a long time so they aren't and haven't been an issue actively causing us problems
lofty depot
The coal factory that's killing the atmosphere is okay because black smoke is pa...
Call China or India first
Silly guy, I use paper straws I'm helping
(I don't, fuck ur world)
jolly delta
Anyways when I finish with DG this evening I'll see if I can set up Claude to generate an APL
Sounds funny
jaunty blaze
What if Ai squeezes out 20% more deeps
runic kindle
for the record I wasn't calling anyone in here a vibe coder I was just saying that a new sim program made by AI isn't necessarily gonna be better or worse, everything else was just bants
lucid olive
Anyways when I finish with DG this evening I'll see if I can set up Claude to ge...
I think @drifting drift has messed around with teaching an AI model to code Feral APL and hit within like 99% accuracy of the live APL?
Could ask him
jolly delta
for the record I wasn't calling anyone in here a vibe coder I was just saying th...
np, you just triggered my pet peeve
like I wouldn't get offended by that anyways
jolly delta
I'm just annoyed when people conflate ai slop with what an ai can actually do
abstract parrot
You dont hear people complaining about steel industries and oil refineries
no people definitely complain about them
runic kindle
no I understand its value as a tool, lol. I'm an indie game dev and I use it for prototyping.
wild dune
runic kindle
not final products mind you
jolly delta
not final products mind you
you see? that's what I mean
why do you have to point that out
what if the actual product is good
jolly delta
🤷♂️
runic kindle
which is mostly an ignorant thing
jolly delta
sounds like an issue no?
round field
i dont hate ai
i use it for work to make my shit easier
but
i really
just
wanna buy a new pc
without spending 3 paychecks on it
jolly delta
real
round field
bitcoin mining plague 2.0
wild dune
unforch
round field
except now its ram and ssds instead of gpu
lofty depot
without spending 3 paychecks on it
Maybe get some bigger paychecks
abstract parrot
it’s very funny that AI was sold to us as a product that would allow us to create more and it was instantly used to replace creators
round field
Maybe get some bigger paychecks
sure let me just kill myself and hope i reincarnate in a different country
lofty depot
Wrong spawn do be tough
jolly delta
it’s very funny that AI was sold to us as a product that would allow us to creat...
Idk I'm creating more
lofty depot
Idk I'm creating more
Creating more stress
runic kindle
I feel like its not replacing good creators. It is making it harder on certain industries to get the foot in the door. Voice acting for one.
but if you're a good designer its not replacing you.
wild dune
yet
round field
ai voice acting is disgusting dogshit
jolly delta
Like idk clearly the issue is there
lofty depot
bam 10% of my paycheck gone
Ramen + tuna time
jolly delta
Or rather, depends if you want to call that an issue
When we introduced factories to replace artisans
round field
Ramen + tuna time
i ate like
jolly delta
So many people lost their jobs
round field
hotdogs and potatoes and chicken and noodles
jolly delta
And at the time there was plenty of complaints
round field
not very luxury food innit
wild dune
yeah maybe we use that as a warning to not make this step until we get something like UBI figured out.
jolly delta
Overall I think we're better off no
jolly delta
yeah maybe we use that as a warning to not make this step until we get something...
Yeah
wild dune
but the people profitting off AI dont care so goodluck ig
round field
Overall I think we're better off no
we arent
we are probs gonna get fucked
for future generations?
probably
jolly delta
Well I mean currently
We're better than 100 years ago
Will that last? Eh, debatable
round field
sure
depends who u ask
some people woke up and are getting bombed
so theres that
lusty sparrow
yeeesss delete 500 liters of water so my lazy bum ass doesnt have to think to make concept art for my game i hate soul and passion!!
lucid olive
AI in creative fields: bad
AI in non-creative fields: good
runic kindle
Even then, good creators will have a niche. I think there will always be some sort of deus ex machina purity crowd that wants human made products. And nothing stopping you from standing alongside AI as a creator as long as you're making again, good products.
jolly delta
yeeesss delete 500 liters of water so my lazy bum ass doesnt have to think to ma...
bro if I hear this argument one more time
lucid olive
bro if I hear this argument one more time
yeeesss delete 500 liters of water so my lazy bum ass doesnt have to think to make concept art for my game i hate soul and passion!!
jolly delta
I hope you're vegan and don't eat corn
runic kindle
I mean you don't "delete" water it comes back. But you can cause sink holes by messing with the balance of the watertable lol
round field
corn is very specific
lusty sparrow
moving goalposts good argument
runic kindle
like a sudden shift in water usage can cause some issues.
lusty sparrow
completely different topic
lofty depot
We feed corn to cows silly
jolly delta
completely different topic
What how is it different
lucid olive
We feed corn to cows silly
you look like you eat corn sideways by the cob
jolly delta
You're complaining about whatever water usage
lofty depot
Nom nom nom
jolly delta
While you're wasting more water than any kind of person using ai
lucid olive
While you're wasting more water than any kind of person using ai
It's a feral player, doesn't waste any water
lusty sparrow
i dont
lucid olive
they don't shower
lofty depot
runic kindle
To be fair though, outside of california most of the country has more sustainable irrigation. California irrigation is insane they use like the most inefficient methods in one of the dryest areas.
runic kindle
So the farm argument is a little hit or miss depending on where its being used
lucid olive
real
jolly delta
any kind?
Do you know that streaming netflix or watching YouTube consumes more water than using a LLM?
round field
or ask grok to remove the shirt from some random tweet
whos gonna stop you
ur not making a difference
lusty sparrow
Do you know that streaming netflix or watching YouTube consumes more water than ...
moving goalposts again zzz ok bored bye
runic kindle
have some polar bears show up to grandmas house with a rocket launcher lol.
the skys the limit
jolly delta
moving goalposts again zzz ok bored bye
lmao ok champ
lusty sparrow
don't ping 👍
wild dune
don't ping 👍
👯♀️
lucid olive
@lusty sparrow
runic kindle
balance discord is just the ragebait channel today hell yeah
lofty depot
Today?
runic kindle
maybe always
round field
are u new here
runic kindle
jolly delta
don't ping 👍
ok sorry
lofty depot
Don't backtrack
runic kindle
so anyways how bout them how many targets do we starfall at questions
lucid olive
1
runic kindle
time to take starsurge off the bars
lucid olive
to spend touch the cosmos
runic kindle
lucid olive
if you're dumping AP on Starfall it's 2+
round field
nice ragebait
lucid olive
Starweaver considerably better than Rattle so
runic kindle
cursed find.
eager raft
that’s ai
runic kindle
pretty sure thats a real promotion.
runic kindle
the remains of people who failed his challenges
You should see american prices on beef jerky if you think thats bad
obtuse jungle
so gamz you will play boomy for the race ?
runic kindle
Everytime I go to another country I'm reminded how much i'm getting fleeced
lucid olive
so gamz you will play boomy for the race ?
what race brother
i'm like world rank 100-150
obtuse jungle
bro its not only about top 1 btw
sudden flame
lucid olive
I fell for tiktok slop marketing the other night and ordered 2 feastables online (they don't sell them in my country)
I assume it's garbage
most foreign chocolate is
viral dawn
feastables doesnt taste like most chocolate(herseys) sold in the US
jolly delta
I assume it's garbage
bro you're European what the fuck are you doing
dire osprey
I fell for tiktok slop marketing the other night and ordered 2 feastables online...
they had them in store here randomly as some temporary thing
like 7 euros a bar
jolly delta
why would you order us chocolate
dire osprey
💀
lucid olive
bro you're European what the fuck are you doing
you ain't living if you don't try new stuff innit
need a bit of the bad to appreciate the good
jolly delta
you ain't living if you don't try new stuff innit
id rather try good stuff
dire osprey
ordered US chocolate once
abstract parrot
Do you know that streaming netflix or watching YouTube consumes more water than ...
viral dawn
you can understand what he says?
dire osprey
and it tasted like i was chewing on a huge sugar cube
abstract parrot
sure whatever man
lofty depot
I assume it's garbage
Isn't bad actually
jolly delta
https://www.eesi.org/articles/view/data-centers-and-water-consumption
Sure
I never claimed AI doesn't consume water?
Also, you're aware that data centers aren't just for AI right?
lucid olive
that breaks with my narrative
jolly delta
They're used for streaming, data processing
Like the article says "one bottle of water per query"
Do you know where you also use a bottle of water?
When you cook pasta or flush your toilet
(multiple bottles actually)
Like people should just stop
And think
I'm the first one to say that AI is dangerous and the new data centers have their own share of issues
But being so uncritical just ruins the point completely
lofty depot
Have u heard of.... if it's yellow let it mellow, if it's brown flush it down....
Save ur water
jolly delta
I'm literally on your side and you're making us look bad
lucid olive
shower together to save the data centers
lofty depot
Mmhm mmhm
lucid olive
You did not read both of those articles in 1 minute lmfao
He made an AI sum it up
jolly delta
You did not read both of those articles in 1 minute lmfao
I've read the EESI report multiple times
dire osprey
gonna use AI to create a boomkin vlogging his demise just to fuck with u guys
jolly delta
I'm walking and I didn't look at the paper
abstract parrot
He made an AI sum it up
tracks AI bros aren’t big on the whole reading thing
jolly delta
You're talking to me like it's the first time I'm hearing about this
dire osprey
chatgpt give me a tldr of this discord chat
jolly delta
tracks AI bros aren’t big on the whole reading thing
Also stop strawmanning and engage with the arguments maybe?
Thoughts?
dire osprey
start in 2005
lofty depot
start in 2005
Fore score and 21 years ago....
dire osprey
runic kindle
grok please read this thread for me