balance

[quick sky]

well no, i was invited just not by anyone running the discord lol

just a couple wayward boomies worried about tc work

[lofty depot]

They're trolling so I joined the troll

[royal zenith]

[lofty depot]

Wayward boomies.....

[tacit oriole]

Tree fiddy

[jaunty blaze]

Carry on my wayward son

[lofty depot]

👀 chancel typing

[potent cargo]

👀

[lofty depot]

Smh I scared him, he's gone

[minor anchor]

Oh ye

the numbers obviously arent quite yet synce but

[lofty depot]

I can give u the old oi pastel colors if u want lol

[minor anchor]

fixable

Thanks, but not necessary

[lofty depot]

o7

[royal zenith]

getting there

[hasty dove]

So how good is balance druid in m+ for midnight?

We cooked or nah?

@wicked shuttle what u think my dude

[wicked shuttle]

ya we cooked

[hasty dove]

kk thanks

[gaunt lantern]

in before we get buffed at the end of heroic week and our damage is +50%

(cope)

[wicked shuttle]

i dont think we need that much

[hasty dove]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-meme-pepe-frog-gif-26117735

[wicked shuttle]

but if we got like 15% it could be good...

[gaunt lantern]

I don't either, I'm just shit posting because I know no one in here is ever actually going to pay attention to anything other than vibes

[wicked shuttle]

[gaunt lantern]

I watched, liked, AND SUBSCRIBED

[wicked shuttle]

ya the vibes are that the spec is fun but not good

[gaunt lantern]

also nuance is dead, so if we aren't the most over powered thing, we're unplayable dog shit

[wicked shuttle]

yeahhhh

i wll say our AOE is definitely better than our ST

so if they buff us to where our ST is acceptable

we might have a TWW Moment where we're back in M+

[meager storm]

locks making fun of us

[wicked shuttle]

I cannot fathom that number btw

[royal zenith]

it's always the ST damage

[wicked shuttle]

i dont think warlock actually does 1.6x our DPS

[potent cargo]

what's a real spec sim

[royal zenith]

you'd think they learn over tiers

[meager storm]

demolock

just a humble 148k

[royal zenith]

they have a 100k variance supposedddlllyyy

(hearsay)

[potent cargo]

we could get 30% aura buff

still be cooked

[gaunt lantern]

Yeah, I was going to say, whats being reported about demo is its hugely variant because of the RNG of demon spawns

[meager storm]

148k is the average

[royal zenith]

okay but

"When it comes to tuning adjustments, our next planned pass is expected to arrive with the Midnight Season 1 launch on March 17. Our next pass will follow immediately afterwards utilizing data gathered during the week Heroic difficulties are available; these changes will go live with the launch of Mythic raid difficulty and Mythic+ on March 24."

this is new

[wicked shuttle]

im making shit up rn

but look at this variance

ive done enough beta M+ to know that this is not real

[royal zenith]

them actually communicating when tuning passes happen?

what timeline is this

[wicked shuttle]

these cannot be the actual numbers

[royal zenith]

[meager storm]

they mastered the art of sandbagging

we should learn

[normal pilot]

looks good. get unlucky outdps others. get lucky 2x outdps others

[wicked shuttle]

again, completely made up but it's just unbelievable

i wouldnt be shocked if there is some sim bug

[normal pilot]

idk is it

[wicked shuttle]

i mean theyre not that far ahead

that spec is jesus

but not like that

[nova ocean]

Lol that wowhead post

[normal pilot]

oh the raw number, not the variance

[nova ocean]

No tuning till raid launch lol

[royal zenith]

it's pretty reasonable to wait with tuning tbh

[meager storm]

well where do u want them to get data from

[royal zenith]

ye

[meager storm]

lvling?

W

[royal zenith]

like you're not gonna use m+ on beta to tune specs for raid

[nova ocean]

Well supposedly they have there own data too

[normal pilot]

wow players don't care about tuning why would they try harder

[royal zenith]

also truths

[nova ocean]

It's also not that hard to look and see demo needs a nerf

[gaunt lantern]

also any content before that point is basically irrelevant anyway. theres no keys or raids yet either, what is the purpose of even tuning. so you can quest/level or whatever

[nova ocean]

I hope they just gut demo and make destro the play

[normal pilot]

tuning's just not that important

[nova ocean]

Fuck Kalamazi

[wicked shuttle]

tuning doesnt matter until the content comes out

[normal pilot]

even then it's jsut w/e

[wicked shuttle]

they also have been tuning blindly, which hasnt been effective either

[normal pilot]

get stuff to +/-10% by the middle of the xpac

that's all you need to do

[gaunt lantern]

Heres the tuning that matters: let me float higher while flapping

[normal pilot]

and they've rpetty much always done that

[royal zenith]

classes probably not even that far apart from each other

but I dont have the ulria sheets...

[wicked shuttle]

nah class balance rn is pretty bad

[meager storm]

its horrible

[normal pilot]

yeah i cna belive 20+ gaps right now

[meager storm]

more than that

[royal zenith]

uh oh

[nova ocean]

There's literally like a 30 percent gap atleast

And tanks beat a lot of dps

[normal pilot]

but it'll be 10 by the time 12.1.5 or .7 comes around

[wicked shuttle]

bear druid is outdpsing feral and balance

[normal pilot]

and that's all you need

[wicked shuttle]

like unironically

[royal zenith]

tanks will just get a flat 30% dps nerf across the board

yeet

is that for all tanks or just bear?

[nova ocean]

With no threat compensation

[meager storm]

idk how outdated it is but spriest was doing 70k

[nova ocean]

And m+ will suck

[normal pilot]

i think brew is high?

[meager storm]

then we have devourer doing 130k

[royal zenith]

dont look at devourer

that spec will be main character

either way

[craggy sonnet]

Not having at least one more pass seems very weird ngl

[royal zenith]

how many devourers you guys got dak

[normal pilot]

no time to tune, gotta work on 12.0.7

[royal zenith]

I don't even know if our dh's are devourers

[meager storm]

2 giga ready and i think like 2 more on reserve

im one of the giga ready ones

[royal zenith]

kek

[meager storm]

[royal zenith]

think my split char will be one

[delicate perch]

[royal zenith]

if planning allows

[meager storm]

its pretty braindead to play so

[royal zenith]

yeah I was trying it out a bit last week

baseline easy to understand

[lucid olive]

whats more likely, moonkin undersimming or demo oversimming?

[wicked shuttle]

demo oversimming i reckon

[normal pilot]

idk

[meager storm]

its weirdge on prepatch rn, i personally dont like the melee things

but i like the bombas

[normal pilot]

no reason to think their sim is more buggy than ours

[wicked shuttle]

i think our number is substantially closer than theirs

[merry ibex]

So I guess we're offically locked into whatever state we are

[wicked shuttle]

to actual dps

[merry ibex]

at least until the 17th

[craggy sonnet]

Just keeping quiet with stuff so out of whack is a choice for sure

[potent cargo]

where do we sit in the pack

have there been any composites put together

(big grain of salt since sandbagging and bad apls permitting)

[lofty depot]

depends how much u want to add to our number that u think were off

but always at the bottom

[potent cargo]

I trust our apl

i never trust anyone else

we have the best tc

[meager storm]

well

[craggy sonnet]

All good, everyone is just casually 30+ % behind demo

[nova ocean]

Has blizzard ever made a post weeks out saying when the next tuning pass is

[delicate perch]

doubt it

[nova ocean]

I feel that means they know shit is bad

[merry ibex]

Well I dont play balance druid because I want to be a spec that is ever good at the start of a patch/tier/xpac

[delicate perch]

they release that info 20 minutes before the reset

[merry ibex]

so I guess we're on track

[craggy sonnet]

Kinda true actually

[meager storm]

no idea how fake or not these numbers are but this is what i saw on kalamazis video

@potent cargo

[craggy sonnet]

But it doesn't really help the players that are stuck in flux

[eager raft]

Hey that’s my new spec

[merry ibex]

this honestly kinda feels like blizzard going "yes balance sucks but you arent getting any tuning until X date so quit bugging us about it"

[potent cargo]

love a bit of variance bottom to top

[royal zenith]

nice color coding

[lofty depot]

ive seen higher ddh sims which is curious

[meager storm]

ye thats why i said no idea if these are fake

or if they were oversimming

[merry ibex]

we arent even on there lol, is because we're so much damage they cant see us at the top?

[meager storm]

yeah something like that

[royal zenith]

these first screenies is always someone just randomly finding some sims

and slapping them in a graph

[normal pilot]

i'd trust the apl but idk if i'd trust the sim itself unfort

[glossy jungle]

filth

[potent cargo]

looks like a lowercaseg and uppercaseg tier

the classic

@glossy jungle you taking friday off or

[royal zenith]

please dont..

[delicate perch]

I'm going to now, just to add to the server issues that are already going to happen

[royal zenith]

you're taking time off

to level characters..

[delicate perch]

yeah just to spite you

[royal zenith]

that's fine

do it

!

[delicate perch]

jks its like 10am "start" here

[royal zenith]

I really hope it doesnt take more than 6 hours

[delicate perch]

which will be pushed back to 12, then servers will be unplayable till 4

[royal zenith]

that's true

[lucid olive]

Main issue with APL now is optimizing Rattle+Convoke builds to pool more for Eclipse

[normal pilot]

have you tried asking gemini

[lucid olive]

I also had an APL saved that was sending Solar on pull and then waited the entire 15 seconds before using Treants and Incarn since it checked for Eclipse being down

And it performed like 600 dps better than the one that was just sending Solar -> Treants -> Incarn

So need to find a middle ground there and there is probably a substantial gain

You don't play Nature's Balance so you start at actual 0 AP so there is probably some value in using the first Eclipse to pool AP for CDs

[normal pilot]

well if you gotta delay you gotta delay it's not like you're gonna miss out on lust uptime

[lucid olive]

Also probably need that AP threshold for your CDs to include Cosmos and Weaver procs

[potent cargo]

idk i am taking most of saturday off to do an ocean swim lol

so maybe i just take friday off

[normal pilot]

there's no fundamental reason you have to do max dps immeidately

[potent cargo]

for the culture

lil long weekend reset

[lofty depot]

it also helps because we dont have 50 asp at the start of fight. so sending that eclipse then incarn give asp for said incarn

oh he said that after tragic

anyway

[normal pilot]

unless the fight is exactly 5:20 or w/e potion timer is can delay inc for 20 or w/e is needed to still cover lust

[lucid olive]

I re-simmed it at 2m and 7m and it had the same result

[normal pilot]

guess delying inc then

[fiery kindle]

🧐 🧐 🧐 🧐

[normal pilot]

i think we had some iteration before where you waited an entire eclipse duration before incarn

[minor anchor]

ok

I like it

thx for help

[lucid olive]

the yellow overlay on dots is so ugly

[minor anchor]

I agree

I would prefer grey red outline when they are off

[lucid olive]

not hating on your cook though it looks nice

i've seen some people desaturate debuff icons and remove the yellow overlay

[minor anchor]

and full coulour ticking down when they are on + yellow glow border in pandemic

[lucid olive]

but they prob got claude to do it for em

[minor anchor]

Ye ill try to fix it tommorow

or wait for updates

or just tank it

[true viper]

👍

[fiery kindle]

I think if the balance stays like this, I won't play this expansion

sorry blizzard, you lost one gametimer

[delicate perch]

damn

[fiery kindle]

Restoration druid has been in the meta for two expansions now, why u buff them? pffs

[lofty depot]

whats the over under on you playing at a level that meta matters

[lucid olive]

he's in dwilkz discord

surely title gamer

[minor anchor]

Post abs, post the bloodwork

[fiery kindle]

You seem happy with this situation

[wooden oak]

Who is dwilkz

[craggy sonnet]

they nerfed natures balance, right? guess we gotta be careful not to fall into a local maximum somehow with talent choice.

do you happen to know what would be the next best thing to drop? meteorites?

[plucky valley]

who gives a fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

[wooden oak]

martell does

[fiery kindle]

I want to get a 0.1 without any trouble with boomie

but its impossible for now

[wooden oak]

0.1?

parses are relative to other players of your spec though no?

[minor anchor]

ye ofcourse

[wooden oak]

yea so whats the issue

[craggy sonnet]

m+ title

is what they mean with .1

[wooden oak]

oh

[fiery kindle]

yea

[wooden oak]

any spec can get title

just go play keys

[fiery kindle]

xD

[craggy sonnet]

nice

[wooden oak]

if you dont believe that any spec can get title ggs washed mental go next mmo

[minor anchor]

Like if you want to pug the title

U cant complain

[wooden oak]

I still think you can pug to title as any spec

Its just harder

[fiery kindle]

Last season, only 3 boomies won this title.

[wooden oak]

Only 3 boomies tried

[fiery kindle]

meta diff

xD

[wooden oak]

last season, only 1 person got gladiator as Prot Warrior

Only 1 person tried

[minor anchor]

Do you want it to be easy or I dont get it isnt the point of ttitle to actually be hard and show of mastery

[wooden oak]

It be that way some days

[fiery kindle]

You're absolutely right, but if the balance stays like this, it'll be impossible.

[lucid olive]

its not strange that not a lot of moonkins got title

leveling alts is the easiest and most fun it's ever been

[wooden oak]

Not a lot of people who do keys play moonkin

[wooden oak]

Are you hype for BFA remix

[lucid olive]

and whenever moonkin is good they all play it

[wooden oak]

bfa boomkin holy

[minor anchor]

I hate seasons where Moonkin is raid meta aka SoD

[wooden oak]

Reminded me

[lucid olive]

I started playing in CN

[wooden oak]

oh

[minor anchor]

everyone's mum is fcking up my spec and I get the bad rep for being a noob by proxy

[fiery kindle]

I don't want it to be very good, just balanced

[lucid olive]

balance is an illusion

[fiery kindle]

The guardian is doing more dps than balance right now xD

[lucid olive]

okay it's prepatch

[minor anchor]

But we must accept this game in not balanced

espicially rn

[kindred token]

Exactly

[fiery kindle]

Do you think you'll be buffed when midnight starts

[lucid olive]

I think the game has had good balance the latest couple expansions

[minor anchor]

No, there is blue post that next Tuning is 17. march

[fiery kindle]

For me, it starts when Midnight M+ and Raid come around

[lucid olive]

woah this guy minigames

[minor anchor]

Before M+ starts im already title buddy

Im going top 4k delve GOD!

I wouldnt be suprised if the meta changed favouribly for Balance on the week of 17-24. lets just put it that waya

[fiery kindle]

I'm tired of seeing DK and Mage

i hope

[lucid olive]

I was tired in Season 2 of seeing moonkin rerollers inting high keys

[delicate perch]

ping them so they know

[minor anchor]

I wanted to say I expirience the weirdest thing just now, when I started hitting dummy with my new UI my brain registred it as Season 3 UI and I started pressing Starfire at the very end of my eclipse as if i was doing the old rotation

[manic plume]

what if I rerolled to int low keys...

[minor anchor]

even though with the scuffed blizzard base Ui i unlearned that like weeks ago

[lofty depot]

have u considered doing mroe damage

[craggy sonnet]

?

great .. why does the valentines event end randomly on a monday

[normal pilot]

still don't have your rocket?

[delicate perch]

imagine not having it... (I got it like 3 days ago)

[lucid olive]

no rocket and no valentine

[craggy sonnet]

🥀

[craggy sonnet]

but no. more importantly, i wanted to buy some of the transmog things and thought it ended on reset

[potent cargo]

there's umm

extra trading post vendors btw

with old shit

in dornogal

in case ppl didnt know

they got most of the older mounts, heap of ensembles

some of the seasonal shit

[pearl linden]

Has there been any decent boomies streaming keys

[meager storm]

on prepatch? no idea, on beta? no idea

hope that helps

[normal pilot]

dps druids play guardian

[pearl linden]

On beta ye

Not even dwilkz has done any it seems

[potent cargo]

nothing to see anyway

what u gonna watch

moonfire 4 times, sunfire once, starfire 6 times starfall twice

throw some foe in there maybe some eclipses

still get out dps'd by everyone regardless

[delicate perch]

including the bear tank on bosses

[lyric kettle]

Time to pi the tank

[delicate perch]

[kindred token]

xD

[lucid olive]

@carmine vigil what do you have to say for yourself

not locked in?

[carmine vigil]

Not locked in

[jade drift]

no more changes till midnight

its jover

[sudden pawn]

its literally over pack it up

my guild will never get world first now that im playing moonkin

[pseudo merlin]

How over is it?

[sudden pawn]

yes

[pseudo merlin]

shit

[delicate perch]

don't need changes I'm blasting (I have details disabled)

[true viper]

why is the best damanging orange spec a tank

How did that genuinely make it to live servers

Is there a bug

[craggy sonnet]

all the devs doing their own thing

[normal pilot]

tanks are ppl too they deserve to dps

[true viper]

theres nothing wrong though right its just tuning

[craggy sonnet]

presumably

[gentle scroll]

No, this is the final tuning for all of midnight

[true viper]

[craggy sonnet]

but yeah, them not at least correcting the big outliers for launch is an interesting choice

[craggy ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/youknow-you-gif-19056787

[gray topaz]

Is prepatch balance just really low? I don't know what to expect numbers wise and I'm sure I'm not playing completely properly but at like 129 ilvl I'm lucky to do 12k dps to a boss in a key (utilizing the M+ build on wowhead)

[craggy ridge]

It’s gotten better but it needs more work. We are at least easily beating tanks now.

[craggy sonnet]

you are in for a surprise

[loud kettle]

(:

[gray topaz]

isn't guardian doing more than both balance and feral? lol

[lofty depot]

yes

ur also 40 ilvls low

[glad helm]

guys petko released another video

oh no

[glossy jungle]

ye

[lofty depot]

why are u engagement baiting

[potent cargo]

petko burner spotted

https://tenor.com/view/kevin-durant-salty-mad-gif-9208837

[glad helm]

I'm bored

😭

[lofty depot]

find a new hobby

[glad helm]

at 3:16 am? like what

also I thought trashtalking on discord as a hobby was just fine

[placid sun]

is there a way to cancel eclipse? cancel aura is not working... any ideas?

[potent cargo]

why would you?

[lofty depot]

u cant cancel eclipse idk why u would want to

[potent cargo]

can't wait to read this

I'm excited

[placid sun]

Trying out something in pvp,entering eclipse summons a dryad right so I wanted to get both eclipses down,double incarn and use the talent that makes starfall do dmg 100% faster, all for pvp purposes . Just wanting to know how much the x4 dryad starfall at 200% do in a burst window

[lofty depot]

rolls d20

@potent cargo he got an 18.. think were fucked

tragic

[loud kettle]

did u roll with an advantage or wut

whats going on here

[lofty depot]

uhhh i didnt have pvper tag

but no there were no debuffs

that was natty roll

[placid sun]

am I crazy for thinking this?

[lucid olive]

the dryad doesnt scale with any talents

[placid sun]

I mean sure but 4 dryads doing starfall at 200% + my starfall in a 8 sec window burst sounds a little too nasty, can only get 3 though since I can't cancel the 1st eclipse

[lofty depot]

what is 200%

[obsidian jetty]

might be able to ecl, incarn, cancel incarn, ecl, incarn

but idek if dryads spawn when you have one up, never looked

[lucid olive]

they do

[craggy sonnet]

Yes

[obsidian jetty]

I'm also psure "200%" isn't actually 200% of a starfall

since like gamz said, it doesn't really scale with anything

[lucid olive]

Yeah the 200% Starfall is fake

the Starfall that the Dryad casts is a different spellID

with a different value

and different flags

[placid sun]

tragicc

[obsidian jetty]

yea, tooltips don't always do what they say

[lucid olive]

it does quite literally piss damage

[placid sun]

this is worth a try

how could one know how much does a dryad starfall tick for

[obsidian jetty]

combat log in the chat

you can look at every event of dmg, might need to right click the channel and add/remove things tho

in the settings of the combatlog channel

[lucid olive]

I'm pretty sure the visual circle of the Dryad's Starfall is fake too

The Starfall is actually centered around you and not the Dryad

even though the visual is centered on the Dryad

[lofty depot]

is that starfall the fake one

same with its surge

like its base or w.e.

[lucid olive]

yeah the Starsurge is the same

[lofty depot]

ye

[lucid olive]

not buffed by anything

so it does negligible dmg

Denizens do more

[craggy sonnet]

Stupid cats

[placid sun]

so 1dryad(8 secs) starfall is doing around 66% of 1 click of my starfall at the dummies

[wooden oak]

@lofty depot holy shit

your bio song is the spongebob rap

i didn't know you knew ball like that

[lofty depot]

[wooden oak]

https://tenor.com/view/bornskywalker-dap-me-up-woody-woody-handshake-woody-toy-story-gif-26021440

[lofty depot]

my name is gary

for context on the "gary hittem with the..."

[wooden oak]

that makes it so much better

holy

[lofty depot]

[glad helm]

Guys is ArcUI the addon to go or is it better cooldown manager?

[lucid olive]

try em both and see what you prefer

[lofty depot]

bcdm >

[sudden pawn]

i like bcdm because it looks like my old ui the most

[glad helm]

Well I already have the latter, but I found out about arcui and i like it more since you can move stuff around, but the only thing I don't like is that I have to keep by buffs always active

Like currently my buffs only appear when I have them/cast dot on target but apparently with arcui you can't

[lofty depot]

i have everything show except yea my buffs with bcdm

[glad helm]

So although having more freedom in moving stuff around I gotta keep all icons on screen which is meh

Gotta work on improving my unhalted frames also

[lofty depot]

what u trying to move around

[glad helm]

Not much, just trying different positioning of icons like idk put some buffs vertically and some buffs horizontally

With Arcui you can move every single icon freely on the screen just like as it was a WA icon

[lucid olive]

You also contract brain worms from interacting with the addons UI

[glad helm]

True

I miss wa, lost so many hours trying to make my own class panel for each spec I played

#UInerd

[junior thicket]

just went with a eddited blizzard ui with grid2 n stuff for all my chars its the same layout except the resources and cds tracked

e.g i use same layout for rogue and druid but for druid i use gamz stuff and for rogue i use casualaddict

so just need to find people who know their spec and know what to track and copy their stuff

ty gamz <3

[lofty depot]

starfire on 1.....

[junior thicket]

USED TO IT

all the time

my keybinds are bis

grey logger keybinds

[lucid olive]

wrath 2 starfire 3

[lofty depot]

bis grey logger keybinds

[junior thicket]

my brain used to itttt

[glossy jungle]

love a good keybind shame

[sour rampart]

knew a player with bloodlust on 1

[junior thicket]

would change if i started the spec over again

[sour rampart]

I wish I was fucking kidding

[junior thicket]

rather play with button clicker than someone who has bl in his 1-9

[lofty depot]

important button

[junior thicket]

dude why is zorthas bis on every spec

[loud kettle]

Translatable skills

[lucid olive]

hes playing beta and buys it from the vendors

[lofty depot]

BIS?

bis??????

[junior thicket]

bro

[lofty depot]

WERE SENDING INCARN AT THE END OF BOSS

[junior thicket]

literally against the best dps specs

[lofty depot]

BIS?!?!?!1

[junior thicket]

hater

HAHA

[lofty depot]

L

[junior thicket]

did u see him jump off the cliff

right as i said hater

i let out a loud laughter lmao

[lofty depot]

yes

[delicate perch]

thats my goat

[glossy jungle]

just wait until you see zorj tank. you will be eating humble pie then. guy is a lord on that spec

[potent cargo]

[delicate perch]

that's a premium service people SHOULD pay for

[potent cargo]

i love zorth but he needs to be studied

and put on ritalin or something

[lofty depot]

gamer

[junior thicket]

real gamer

guy did a master thesis on class defenses

[glossy jungle]

https://www.twitch.tv/zorthas/clip/DependableFuriousMageGivePLZ-1tN4JPg4ACW5SDiT

[delicate perch]

HAHAH "we can come back we can come back" dead

[potent cargo]

warler died

so zorth could run

and inbetween that we had bames, eli, and a few other specimens

[junior thicket]

hahahaha

[delicate perch]

warler had some banger clips

wonder if they're still up

[glossy jungle]

there's a longer clip from Halls of Atonement of zorj tank but I cant remember if 'accidental' gamer words were in it so I cant post it

[junior thicket]

goat

unintentionally funny

my kind of humor

[delicate perch]

https://www.twitch.tv/warler5/clip/MotionlessStormyDelicataJonCarnage?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time

[glossy jungle]

the broccoli himself

[delicate perch]

I was trying to find the ghuun clip but that one always makes me laugh

[eager raft]

astro gapping whatever youd be doing

[lofty depot]

nah

[potent cargo]

delete the streamables bro

too many gamer words

[glossy jungle]

there's safe versions 🙂

[spice roost]

are sims good enough to trust that incarn is better than convoke on beta st

[eager raft]

no

idk

🙂

[spice roost]

lol

[lofty depot]

sooooooooooooo

[junior thicket]

xalatath feet mentioned

[lofty depot]

incarn is likely better when theres any aoe

[delicate perch]

what about if theres not?

[spice roost]

doesnt every fight have that

in midnight

[lofty depot]

iirc yes

[meager storm]

yes there is no pure st fight

[sudden pawn]

the only pure st fight is the fight inside our own minds

[delicate perch]

what if theres multiple people in there

[lofty depot]

is birb boss st?

in the march raid

[sudden pawn]

https://tenor.com/view/datadog-data-dog-dataism-dataist-datarecovery-gif-1021590645496425248

[spice roost]

adds from what i saw in videos i think

[lofty depot]

cant remember

[eager raft]

inb4 we play single target on every non-councl boss

like we have for the last 2 expansions

[lofty depot]

our st talents have kindling 🙂

[eager raft]

look at my silly ass saying we

i might not even level my druid to 90

[lofty depot]

smh

[spice roost]

they will definately tun more for balance i just hope its enough

[lucid olive]

no

starweaver boss

random singular add spawns

dreamrift boss is hella starweaver boss too

[exotic perch]

if we ever have to go back to rattle and not taking cosmos this spec is just doomed

[lucid olive]

idk

I think there is room for 2 builds there

Convoke+Rattle and Starweaver+Incarn

I feel like thats fun

As long as theyre within the power range they are now

[exotic perch]

i think incarn rattle would be fun if rattle was like old dreamcatcher

[lucid olive]

Well, to each other at least, but buffed 30%

[exotic perch]

makes incarn into a fun burn cd

[lucid olive]

Convoke+Rattle puts more emphasis on pooling for Eclipse and in Starweaver you can just bank procs and enter and AP gen isn't as valuable

I think 1m Convoke might be playable too

[spice roost]

ooh 1m convoke

[lofty depot]

well everything is a starweaver boss silly

[cursive mirage]

Hey gamz

[cursive mirage]

please delete the first one of these

thanks

[spice roost]

starweaver incarn is peak gameplay

are we still starfalling on st

or is that gone

[lucid olive]

for starweaver

[spice roost]

only for using the proc or in general with starweaver?

[lucid olive]

to spend starweaver and cosmos

[spice roost]

i see ok

[lucid olive]

nothing like throwing a wrath and proccing cosmos

and then chain proccing starweaver procs after

[spice roost]

ya love starweaver

[glad helm]

Can we hope in sims being actually working before the 17th or they might not be even ready by then?

[cursive mirage]

I'll just fly across the pond to beat Gamz up when he tries to sleep

make sure he gets it done faster

[lucid olive]

sims are working

theyre just not fully optimized

[lofty depot]

its within reason

[glad helm]

In other words or we get some buffs or we cooked

[lofty depot]

id assume a surge buff

[glad helm]

🙏

[lofty depot]

wont be big prob

unless they see us way lower than people

[glad helm]

It's ok guys Echo or Liquid are gonna show up on some boss with 3 boomies

Which are basically demo locks that summon treants as pet

Trust

[lofty depot]

4th boss

dreamrift boss yeayea

[cursive mirage]

I have good news for you

[glad helm]

The two dragons?

Why so

[lofty depot]

no the dreamrift boss

with the upstairs and downstairs

[glad helm]

Ah okok

[lofty depot]

2 dragons also spawns all those orbs

then theres that portal boss

with all those orbs

but that implies the adds dont die in 2 seconds

[glad helm]

I mean I didn't count him as 4th because it's a different raid but I get what you mean xd

[cursive mirage]

arctic is still coping. That will end as soon as the strat ends up being built to stack all that shit up insta

[lofty depot]

its level of difficulty is around there

[glad helm]

Yeye I understood after what you meant

[lofty depot]

nah they'll make it so u cant stack surely

[lucid olive]

The Dreamrift boss has to be spread or they get buffed or something

iirc

[cursive mirage]

huge

[glad helm]

Bro call me crazy but I have a feeling boomie can actually blast on mythic nexus king

[spice roost]

thasts actually really good then

[lucid olive]

I actually think Moonkin can be really good this tier, the tuning right now is just not great

but even if we don't get buffed enough in the march 17th tuning then we get buffed after RWF ends

so the spec will be good for prog for like 90% of guilds

[glad helm]

We don't know all boss fights yet but so far they seem in our favor

[lucid olive]

there is 1 fight that hasnt been pulled and its alleria

[glad helm]

Yeah luckely we are not a brown class

Btw I love it how they made a complete "secret phase" boss by not writing anything at all on the journal lol

[lofty depot]

fury looks fine

[lucid olive]

they did the same for gallywix

but on Gallywix it seemed intentional

for Alleria I am pretty sure that boss was just not finished during the first rounds of testing lol

[glad helm]

Or they didn't write anything to avoid some weird spoilers for story

[lucid olive]

[glad helm]

I mean I'm pretty sure whatever boss we kill it's kind of like something bad will happen so we continue fighting xalatath

So yeah maybe they are hiding something

Again, just speculating

[lofty depot]

or something bad did happen.....\

and we have to save alleria

[lucid olive]

I still believe that the Khadgar that was spat out of that dark heart thing is corrupted

and Khadgar is the last boss of the expansion after a betrayal

[lofty depot]

he still in a wheelchair

how long it take to heal

[lyric kettle]

He makes you collect apexis crystals

[lucid olive]

And he throws arcane wheelchairs at you like Dimensius p2 platforms

Fyrakk start of p2 type intermission where he gets a big arcane shield and he fires arcane missiles at everybody

man thatd be lit

spawns arcane familiars

[potent cargo]

insta kill on final boss of the game is if u use enough knockbacks on him he falls off the platform and dies

[lucid olive]

real

[maiden pasture]

Gm chat

[lucid olive]

Its okay with huge bosses like Dimensius but if I'm fighting a gnome why can't I typhoon them off the platform??

[normal pilot]

they have pvp resistance

you need more spell hit

[lyric kettle]

MC him and walk him off the edge

[lucid olive]

I actually liked the Cyclone tech on Saladhaar

is that a hot take

[spice roost]

i mean it saved people

i dont think its nessisarily a good design thing

cause people should just learn the mechanic

[maiden pasture]

I would have liked it on prog

Hate it on farm

[lucid olive]

yeah

[maiden pasture]

If some moron can't dodge a beam on farm I shouldn't be punished

[lucid olive]

I just enjoy when niche talents like that are played on a fight

I liked the Cyclone thing on Anduin as well

but p2 Anduin was kinda crazy

[maiden pasture]

Anduin was nice

[lucid olive]

1000 kick assignments

[maiden pasture]

Cause u always had responsibility for knocks and shit

Using door of shadows on anduin was

[lucid olive]

really good and challenging fight for sure though

peak door of shadows was rygelon

stand in the middle casting when he sucks you in then door of shadows to your assigned circle

can move while casting door of shadows cause stellar drift existed

peak

[lofty depot]

yes, because then my moronic raiders get a get out of jail free card, while i play perfectly

[delicate perch]

I surge people on farm

[spice roost]

lmao as u should

[cloud citrus]

I let my mage die on farm cause 1 of them (dont know which) slow falled me like 5-6 times during dimmi and i had no idea what was happening

[spice roost]

hahahhaha

[round field]

i open up discord

first thing i see

is mayaler typing

"anduin was nice"

https://tenor.com/view/cant-unsee-how-to-unsee-blind-homer-simpson-simpsons-gif-17613101

[jade flume]

Get help

I made sure to not have it in my default build just so i could "forget" it

[neon mesa]

@iron chasm

[delicate perch]

@iron chasm

[bleak rivet]

So copium here but maybe this Thursday is the last tuning as it was already worked on and locked in then nothing til 17th

[jaunty blaze]

Shirley

[glad helm]

https://tenor.com/view/fine-tune-fine-tuning-fine-tuned-copium-walter-white-gif-4796770362564082802

[royal zenith]

no point in copium... just accept reality

or in more positive wording

live in the moment

[cloud citrus]

I mean feral arms and boomy cant be left that low for the next few weeks right

theres a few others that do 0 dam aswell

[jaunty blaze]

Apparently they can

[royal zenith]

bear beats about every other dps spec except warlock

thoughts on that?

[bleak rivet]

But the moment is stinky and I hate it here

[royal zenith]

good thing the moment changes by the minute!

[glad helm]

Ok I don't think boomie is down bad like ret and arms

Like actually

[royal zenith]

unless...

what do ret and arms sim

[glad helm]

Idk but shouldn't be the same of boomie

[jaunty blaze]

Why not

I an ideal world all dps sim the same

[glad helm]

Ofc

[potent cargo]

we will take ur word for it

boomy is saved

shout it from the rafters

[glad helm]

I'm just going off based on what I read around from different people/streams/tierlist/whatever, general vibe is arms and ret are bad like.... BAAAAAAD BAD

[jaunty blaze]

Every class will tell you they are bad

[glad helm]

While we just miss some ST damage to be actually decent apparently

[potent cargo]

so basically you have consumed

clickbait engagement slop

and synthesised it into your own slop

ret i could sympathise with, they dont have another similar dps spec

[glad helm]

I mean there is not much real data to go after rn, but I guess the opinion of people who played beta is more informed then mine

Also you can say clickbait engagement sure

But if different people all say the same thing you know, it might be true

[royal zenith]

would you trust belullar's opinion?

[glad helm]

Does he even talk about class balance? LoL

Doesn't he talk lore and shit

Or blizz as a company

[royal zenith]

he does

about 90% of wow's content creators are like him though

[round field]

bellular talks everything

[royal zenith]

talk out of their ass about speculations

pov: Maximum limit's tier list

[glad helm]

I like zorthas, that kid is so smart

[round field]

🍅

[glad helm]

And actually looks at analytics

[royal zenith]

[round field]

https://imgur.com/a/HXqFGAO

[royal zenith]

Izen also looks at analytics

[round field]

do you think javier looks at analytics?

[royal zenith]

100%

[glad helm]

That is kinda content kinda not, in the sense that it's an ass tierlist because he gets all bunch of people ranking them so everyone can do whatever the fuck they want, but some people do give actual good takes on some classes

They can't all be shit

[potent cargo]

zorthas is a sentient tomato what does he know about balance druid

[royal zenith]

Sure, but that's glyph's point

[glad helm]

Also max specifices it's a tierlist made BY THE COMMUNITY so you don't take it seriously regardless

[round field]

you dont take any tier list seriously

[royal zenith]

hence my question what do arms/ret sim

every class will want 20% damage buff

even healers..

[potent cargo]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/297390355488178178/1021360265637404673/zorjcummies.gif

[glad helm]

I mean tier lists are valid if you take them as someone's opinion

Can be right can be wrong only time will tell

[potent cargo]

biggest issue with tier list is its so arbitrary

too many variables to consider chiefly player skill

and im a boomy doomer

think its in the pits of mordor

[glad helm]

Also another thing to take into consideration

[potent cargo]

but good boomy >> dogshit fotm sss tier player

[glad helm]

Making one unique tierlist is kinda meh, I like more max divding it into m+ and raid 'cause for the same class it can be very different

[glad helm]

Good player on any class > average player on s tier class

[royal zenith]

it's just content

[glad helm]

Always been true in wow history

[royal zenith]

that's all it is

[glad helm]

Always will be

[royal zenith]

and in general petko makes better tierlists than max

(unironically)

especially cause the community has lost the plot

a long time ago

[glad helm]

But like max one isn't a REAL tierlist

Like in the sense of

[royal zenith]

[glad helm]

If it was HIM alone making it

With his opinion takes

Sure

But him calling 20+ people is too random

[royal zenith]

you're kinda reaching here

but warrior's are definitely dooming

I checked their discord

[glad helm]

But in general or just arms warrior?

[delicate perch]

https://tenor.com/view/zorthar-pancake-pancake-fail-wow-zorthas-gif-11271338529801362547

[lucid olive]

Max tier lists has value but it's not accuracy

[delicate perch]

is the value giving views to a racist

[lucid olive]

But I think it's good for theorycrafters to get on a platform and talk about their spec

[potent cargo]

yeah put me in coach

[delicate perch]

[potent cargo]

lemme talk about how shit boomy is

[delicate perch]

make zorthas do a tier list where he gets oce players to talk

[potent cargo]

[sudden flame]

feral segment

(there wasn't one)

[potent cargo]

cheesey can go on

[sudden flame]

Cheesey

Bros gambling in south east asia last i heardf

[delicate perch]

who can be the warlock ||||

[glossy jungle]

mans got an amazing haircut though

[fossil hemlock]

Anyone here that knows how to make an APL cancelaura a buff?

[potent cargo]

what are you trying to cancel aura

just out of interest

[fossil hemlock]

ravage for bear

[sudden flame]

[potent cargo]

 actions+=/cancel_buff,name=raging_blow,if=buff.raging_blow.stack=2

this is the documentation

[fossil hemlock]

Our apex is dumb okay. It echoes ravage at 25/12.5/12.5% value but raze at 50/25/25% so it might be worth it to cancelaura ravage on aoe to get the razes echod

[fossil hemlock]

Sweet, thanks. I'll mess around with this

[potent cargo]

idk the context of how anything ravage works tho

so cant advise

for ref:

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/ActionLists

[fossil hemlock]

Cheers

[dire osprey]

man i 100% expected a gally secret phase where u go into the hole

was so dissapointed when he just died lmao

[muted citrus]

point and laugh at this user who wanted man hole

[sudden flame]

[round field]

gally was great

in the secret phase boss just goes afk

and if you reach it you get free ce

[delicate perch]

one of our melee played ranged on rekill and was like wtf is this last phase afk simulator maybe a single dodge

[pseudo merlin]

ranged always have it so easy smh

[delicate perch]

🧢

that was a hard phase

had to move sometimes maybe

[potent cargo]

makes up for every other boss that range hard carries on

[pseudo merlin]

Sprockendicker was joke too

[delicate perch]

I had to soak on that

[pseudo merlin]

[jaunty blaze]

Depends which you got

Most weren't so bad to do

[spice roost]

i really want to play balance but the spec is so bad even on beta i tried it in some keys its st was ass

do u guys honestly think they will buff balance by much on the 17th

what do u think would it take to get it up to par

[jaunty blaze]

3% aura plus 5% starsurge buff

Take it or leave it

[twin lotus]

What is missing from the APL?

as in, I am reading it right now and it seems mostly fine but obviously my knowledge is limited

[jaunty blaze]

From what I understand it's just not optimized but otherwise functional

Ask gamz if you want to know more

[twin lotus]

👍

[pallid bay]

its not necessarily exclusive to the APL

just run some sims, look at the sample

question why its doing x

why is buff y being consumed here, bug?

shouldnt it be better to do 123 instead of 456

[misty vapor]

Who feels like we need at least one more talent point in this area ?

[spice roost]

u get three in midnight

[maiden pasture]

When are you working on the apl @pallid bay

[misty vapor]

oh

[spice roost]

three more for spec tree

[misty vapor]

in midnight you get three points to spend here ?

great

3 is great

[pallid bay]

yeah u get more

[pallid bay]

some time between now and never prob

[sudden flame]

Matted fur

[pallid bay]

that gate is insane

u have to take whole middle

[sudden flame]

yep

[pallid bay]

just clicking random points here

[misty vapor]

the fact that we are not forced to take innervate now is great

but we lost nature's vigil 😢

[jaunty blaze]

You never were

[spice roost]

u should take innervate for raid though

[vale pebble]

Ur forced to take inmervate

Healers are in ramadan

[jaunty blaze]

Let them starve mashallah

[vale pebble]

Brother my healer

In beta keys is like

[misty vapor]

Mana consumption doesn't look taht bad rn

[vale pebble]

Nah bro dont take innrrvate

Then 5min in the key

Hrs like

[misty vapor]

oh lol

[vale pebble]

Ermmmm im oom

[jaunty blaze]

😭

[vale pebble]

Please dont pull

😭

Legit me when i afk

10sec

For his ssissy ass to drink his little water

[jaunty blaze]

We classic again

[misty vapor]

boomie feels nice right now but i really enjoyed the previous raid tier set

[spice roost]

is there a way to figure out how much % is gained from apex in midnight vs having no apex

i cant sim it cause id have to put points somewhere

else

[delicate perch]

1000000 % gained

I ran the math

[delicate perch]

Is this ragebait

[spice roost]

aside from shitposting im actually curious

i know the first 3 points are fairly strong

[delicate perch]

You could probs sim it and see

[spice roost]

i cant sim without apex at 90 id have to put other points in

into spec tree and that would screwup the results

[craggy sonnet]

looks like smolder ~10+%
bolts ~4-5%
no clue about the first point

couple of %

[sudden flame]

why can't you sim withojut the apex points?

[spice roost]

cause it doesnt let u set the talents without filling in all the points

[spice roost]

ty

actually i was wrong its working to sim it

i guess i dont need to set the talents

nvm just gives an error when i sim without apex

[misty forge]

btw is there any thoughts on what we'd be crafting as our 1st and 2nd craft or is that still too up in the air?

[lofty depot]

It does if u don't allow it

Or if u generate combinations at the bottom

But u'll always take smolder

[spice roost]

ya it lets me but it gives an error and doesnt finish the sim

[lofty depot]

Bolts are a little iffy, but I assume AOE sim looked worse for a bit

[lofty depot]

Can u show the talent page

[round field]

too early to tell

but probably some sort of weapon as usual

unless you get lucky early

[misty forge]

bet, thanks -> wasn't sure if we'd go for 2 embelishments by default or weapon first for power spike

[lofty depot]

So if ur showing me that I'll assume u don't know how to do what I said

Go to the talents section in the sim, and click the edit button on the talents

[round field]

just depends on the content you do

and what speed you do it at

[lofty depot]

Then click at the bottom of the talents "generate combinations"

[misty forge]

ye for sure, cheers bud

[spice roost]

ok

[lofty depot]

U can also deselect talents u don't want, think it's right clock

To lower the cominations

[craggy sonnet]

you can just input a string from wowhead talent calc

[lofty depot]

Well I thought he was importing that string and not telling it to generate

And because it's not, it says error

[craggy sonnet]

i think the issue is that he cant save the talents ingame if you dont invest all points

[spice roost]

ok its working now

ty

[lofty depot]

True,. I suppose I do it on wowhead kek

[spice roost]

arctic ty be being useful

[spice roost]

@lofty depoti did what u said checked the generate combos box and ran 2 talent pages i got an error still

ran one with apex one without

[pallid bay]

an error is not very helpful

[spice roost]

lemme show u

[lofty depot]

R u trying it on raidbots.com and not mimiron.raidbots.com

Bet funny error

[spice roost]

no its mimiron

[lofty depot]

Blud has a ultra wide....

Can't read that shit

Take a picture of before

[sudden flame]

theres no error there scroll down soem more

in the log

[pallid bay]

link it

[spice roost]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vm6FKrATTe8xenNGUFNiAf

sry here ya go

[pallid bay]

idk what u did but something went wrong when generating talents

did u tick this box

[spice roost]

the whole is cause i just wanted to find out how much apex alone is worth

yes

i did

[round field]

wdym apex alone?

[pallid bay]

this is what i end up with from your profileset2

unfinished tree, infinite combinations

[spice roost]

so how do i sim to find out how much apex is worth

[lofty depot]

13/10 talents pog

[round field]

just sim normal talents

and look how much apex did?

[spice roost]

that wont tell it all

[lofty depot]

I'll give u a secret right mow

Apex 1 talent is being funny right now and u'll have to wait anyway 🙂

[round field]

why doesnt even matter tho

not like you will ever play without apex talents

[spice roost]

was just wanting to learn is all

[lofty depot]

Well right, ur always going to take smolder, so ur taking apex 1 regardless

[spice roost]

yes ofc

[wraith jetty]

how does balance feel to y'all? better or worse than it has in the past?

[lofty depot]

Bolts might be piss in AOE, but good in st :/

[lofty depot]

Feels good

[spice roost]

i tried asking in mage discord since they have tcs

[wraith jetty]

I just checked th epinned messages like ??? what are they talking about, thats your NAME

[spice roost]

they said ask the tcs here not sure who those are

[wraith jetty]

first class I logged into since TWW phase 1, havent played balance in years but remembered really having problems with it in cata

[lofty depot]

My name is such, so if new people come in.... Maybe they read information that is available before asking questions that have already been answered

[lofty depot]

It's fundamentally a different game since cata

What problems

[wraith jetty]

yeah, it left a bad taste in my mouth when I couldnt beat to do 84-85 with balance and leveled a mage instead lmao. I felt like I didn;t do any damage at all

[lofty depot]

We were pretty good in tww s1

[wraith jetty]

but I Want to do some mroe reading and get some geat higehr than ilvl 80 to see

[lofty depot]

A little bad at the start, but fine overall

But it's not like u can't beat mages by being better

[wraith jetty]

to clarify, last tiem I played balance was leveling in cata

[spice roost]

different game now

[lofty depot]

Well if ur playing a class. Leveling and or not geared, anything can screw damage

Ur playing around the unbalanced area of game

[round field]

well cata and live are completely different games

leveling isnt really a thing

you just kinda brain afk to max lvl in a few hours

[spice roost]

yep the whole game is based around endgame now

on retail

[lofty depot]

But yea, the apex 1 talents... Ull need to wait til it gets fixed.... Then we can maybe do some funny. Tests....

[spice roost]

alright

[craggy sonnet]

what are you referring to?

whats bugged?

[spice roost]

is it broken in game or just in sims

[lofty depot]

Sim

[spice roost]

ok

[lofty depot]

All of it is wip

Would just wait on passing judgement or wanting to know specific weights of talents

[spice roost]

ya ill wait

[lofty depot]

Maybe we'll have a 1 in front of the sim soon

[sudden flame]

that would mean doing as much damage as guardian and thats not allowed

[lofty depot]

I think it would be fine if bear did damage.... In cat form

[jaunty blaze]

Gwaardian too stronk

[lofty depot]

But the transgressions it is doing right now.....

[jaunty blaze]

When we get our 5% wrath buff after heroic week we will be back

[dire osprey]

need to offset that with a 3% starsurge nerf