one gwen away from pure greatness.
#balance
cloud plover
lofty depot
I'd suggest stop thinking, cuz they don't either
dense steeple
welcome to what you dont think
distant oasis
Well yeah, you're right haha....
distant oasis
Even the liquid gm tell That boomy is shitty in raid and they rather play full mage instead
I guess is not drunk but just not working
lofty depot
Who
lucid olive
minimum
lofty depot
Isn't gm
lucid olive
<@&114146878353833984> here's some free bitcoin for one of you
haughty sluice
thanks
crisp topaz
royal zenith
they're getting more creative
haughty sluice
I mean who falls for that shit?
royal zenith
posting screenies pog
harsh jungle
what talents are we running on the ptr for ec?
lucid olive
you know those emote scammers that show up in your DMs every now and hten
dense steeple
mods stole all the free crypto
lucid olive
one of them was fucking spam calling me on discord the other night
lofty depot
what talents are we running on the ptr for ec?
Can copy the ones in compendium
lucid olive
like wtf just message me and let me ignore you like all the other ones
lofty depot
U answer?
lucid olive
no
dense steeple
one of them was fucking spam calling me on discord the other night
lmao
solemn idol
Feels petty and probably is but I was absolutely hoping the druid dev had a shit night of sleep last night and was plagued by nightmares about their ineptitude and overall mediocrity.
lofty depot
Blud slept like a baby knowing he killed your dreams instead
solemn idol
I slept pretty good knowing im not him
round field
the dooming is unhinged damn
youd doom aswell if
something you like gets shot in the head
dense steeple
Do we even have a dev
we do, and i have it on good authority that he doesnt know anything about moonkin
dire osprey
💀
rain pebble
IDK I tend to not reach the "I wish harm upon people who work on a video game because my spec of choice is gonna do X% less damage than other specs" stage of video game obsession
dense steeple
condiment dev making all the worst decisions possible even when other devs say "not the best idea chief"
dense steeple
IDK I tend to not reach the "I wish harm upon people who work on a video game be...
i would never wish ill on a dev. just wish he would take feedback and learn what hes getting paid to do
near raven
I just wish he would be better at his job
solemn idol
It's more of I dislike people who are shitty at their job. And if that job also happens to impact stuff I like or a hobby etc. then the dislike is turned up a bit more.
dense steeple
^^
solemn idol
And even more so becuse the dev works with other devs who are better. So rather than get better themselves they persist in being bad at their job despite the ability to improve.
merry crow
they just can't do basic math. The change was clearly intended to make the 2pc/4pc damage split more balanced. But then they messed up a basic division
obsidian jetty
tis alittle more complex than basic division, but it's all fairly easy to simulate.
Just need a trusted apl to sim off of
lofty depot
Recruitie be simulating
molten sandal
As usual, they will let us complain, only to buff us a week into the Season, which everyone else misses so they can point at us and say "Look at Moonkins dooming while being S-tier in M+ again!"
merry crow
to get a truly accurate answer yeah, but you can napkin math a decent amount
lofty depot
I mean, the changes they did are just overrides. So u sim it and go look, numby went down a lot u shouldn't do that
Dev goes /me does it
dense steeple
but he would rather double down on his shitty design ideas
im not even asking for some crazy rework like others are
im asking to not have the entire spec be fuckin useless
near raven
but thats crazy
lucid olive
tis alittle more complex than basic division, but it's all fairly easy to simula...
not like I didn't give them a sim with override lines for the change 24 hours before they hotfixed it in..
dense steeple
you know what i do when my coworkers say something alone the lines of "hey thats not the best idea"
normal pilot
you don't need to sim to know that 6x cap is awful
lucid olive
then decided to hotfix in an even worse version..
dense steeple
i take a fuckin step back and look at whats actually going on before doing it
normal pilot
that's 600% spell power
near raven
at this point if its so low just make it so your next starsurge after pulling cd does 6x damage
if it doesnt do anything why such a convoluted tierset
you can see that they didnt put any coherent thought into it AT ALL
which is kinda embarrassing
safe kite
not like I didn't give them a sim with override lines for the change 24 hours be...
Wait. Are you saying all of this is your fault?
near raven
its like the dev was surprised that a new tier is coming out and he had to design a tierset on a napkin in 5 minutes while on the loo or something
lofty depot
Wait. Are you saying all of this is your fault?
No, he tried to prevent it
merry crow
I mean the tier set design is good and changes up the rotation
lofty depot
And the dev said haha nice try bud
lucid olive
I mean the tier set design is good and changes up the rotation
not anymore lol
round field
dont talk
lucid olive
the APL we spent days writing to play keeper 4pc is now suboptimal compared to the old one
merry crow
Yeah I know, was mostly talking about before it was nerfed to unplayable
lucid olive
ye
not that the time invested by theorycrafter should matter when it comes to design or balancing decisions really, cause if we didn't want to do it we just wouldn't have
safe kite
But it would be nice to have devs that are decent enough human beings to respect when people do a lot of the work they are supposed to be doing for free out of passion
near raven
yeah but you know, when designing a tierset that is to be a payoff, you already at least somewhat need to know in what ballpark the payoff is: is it worth it changing the rotation for 3 damage? no...will it make sense if it does 69 gigaomega gazillion trillion damage when you change the rotation? probably not - you can figure that out by doing some napkin math in your head
lofty depot
But it would be nice to have devs that are decent enough human beings to respect...
Multiple people definitely didn't stay up giving them info
tawdry oak
Some of you are delulu about what your posting here, the dev has work and deadlines, why TF would he just drop everything cos some of you send them stuff
They have to go then verify everything you send run it all and see what happens
Then get approvals and shit
Do any of you even work as SWE?
safe kite
That shit would make sense if there was any work being done, and in blizzard balancing no work is ever being done.
tawdry oak
Any idea on what it takes to get shit live into prod
normal pilot
doesn't mean they don't clock in those hours
near raven
yes I am aware what goes into it
normal pilot
this is just the game that you're paying $15 for, and the quality of product you get for the money
safe kite
Any idea on what it takes to get shit live into prod
I know how to make numbers line up.
near raven
but even as an engineer, you have one rule to live by: results matter.
normal pilot
it's nothing new, games been like this for a long time
orchid ember
I don't think anyone is being "delulu" here
normal pilot
the result is going into production then shifting over to the next patch
safe kite
I don't think anyone is being "delulu" here
I mean the guy who thinks the balancing team of blizzard apparently have the hardest job in the world is one 100% deluded.
merry crow
It would be delulu as a dev to spend time implementing the tier set only to make it useless lol
orchid ember
I mean the guy who thinks the balancing team of blizzard apparently have the har...
Did someone say that? I must've missed it
safe kite
Did someone say that? I must've missed it
That was the entire part of his delulu rant, software engineering hard, therefor you can't make number line up
tawdry oak
??
orchid ember
That's not quite how that rant reads to me
orchid ember
I'm not defending the rant either though
royal zenith
it's a bit weird you call others delulu if this tierset has gotten about 4/5 iterations
and they landed on this
regardless of how things go in software world
orchid ember
Receiving and implementing feedback to something you're working on is normal. That's seemingly not happening here so. Saying everyone else is delulu is just weird
tawdry oak
Yeah and implementing feedback is not something they can go ' oh yeah you came up with this, great just gonna copy and paste that in and ship it cos you said it's true'
gentle scroll
oh god am I going to have to play EC in raid 
tawdry oak
Which seems like what so many people seem to think they should do
near raven
either shit the bed or copy a discord message from a rando - no in between lmao
dire osprey
oh god am I going to have to play EC in raid <:despairge:987227994311491664>
you could always play warlock
merry crow
No one expects them to instantly implement feedback. What many expect is them is not make changes like this that deletes an entire hero talent tree
normal pilot
tbf if you're still playing balance after all this time you'll suffer thru EC
near raven
the entire goal of this process is to result into an at least situationally playable hero talent tree - yes the job might be hard, have deadlines and other obligations, but the end result is clear: this is a big fat 100% fail.
its like youre a baker and instead of baking a cake you piss on a plate - nobody is gonna go "its okay that I got piss instead, you tried your best"
unless the dev is a 4 year old of course, if he is a professional? well
lofty depot
Yeah and implementing feedback is not something they can go ' oh yeah you came u...
The feedback I'm talking about isnt numbers say gamz gave him, but rather what they gave gamz
merry crow
its like youre a baker and instead of baking a cake you piss on a plate - nobody...
that's just fine dining
obsidian jetty
The feedback I'm talking about isnt numbers say gamz gave him, but rather what t...
🍆
haughty sluice
on the other hand, if the tier set nerf was 17% of our overall, then it was clearly overtuned. usually 4s alone is what, 5-10%? at least now we are in a position where they can just aura buff by 5% and we are still dogwater
merry crow
True but this tier has powerful tier sets a majority of specs
That was the design intention
dense steeple
discovered?
fossil hemlock
Wdym "we discovered", this has been known
lofty depot
on the other hand, if the tier set nerf was 17% of our overall, then it was clea...
If they just aura buff boomkin ur still playing ec
dense steeple
our baseline has been ass since BFA
jaunty blaze
Ye I am being sarcastic
dense steeple
cant prepare EC, gamz didnt give me the talent tree yet
near raven
if the logs on ptr are any indication
we only need a 50% aura buff to be as good as mm xD
haughty sluice
plot twist, they buff wrath by 100%
merry crow
the only solution atm is an aura buff either way
can they just not meet in the middle of this 4pc?
lofty depot
Recruitie had some fun ideas about buffing potent/groves inspiration
royal zenith
they can, but timeline wise
you'll get specific buffs to abilities probably after the first week or so
cause it requires a bit looking into
solemn idol
If they mess with the set any more they'll make it even worse. However improbable that may be they'll somehow manage
royal zenith
unless they already cooking
which would be surprising considering the change being pushed this late
jaunty blaze
Can they even make it worse at this point
dense steeple
unless they already cooking
should just cook his resignation tbh
dire osprey
black smoke coming from the kitchen
near raven
If they mess with the set any more they'll make it even worse. However improbabl...
"when you press CA you spawn a dryad that casts 10000% starsurge at you" 😆
lofty depot
Can they even make it worse at this point
Well it's 6x sp right now it could be 2
pallid bay
Yeah and implementing feedback is not something they can go ' oh yeah you came u...
dev: here's what we plan to do
gamz: ok here's the awful result of doing so, it dosnt make much sense
dev:
changes implemented
jaunty blaze
Instructions unclear nerf applied
Whatever maybe I'll get some raidtime if our resto isn't there otherwise can chill
pallid bay
idk why you are making excuses for nonsensical design choices
pale swan
Because blizzard fired almost everybody,if anyone remembers legion compared to this fiesta it's night and day
gentle scroll
Was the reasoning explained at all?
pale swan
Stellar drift my old friend
normal pilot
they don't explain reasons and really there's no need. evaluate the product you get that you're paying for
sudden flame
Was the reasoning explained at all?
pretty obvious they are trying to make the 2p and 4p more balanced numbers wise
resulting in turbo nuking the tier set overall tho
lofty depot
Was the reasoning explained at all?
They didn't blue post the changes, let alone give reasons.
safe kite
pretty obvious they are trying to make the 2p and 4p more balanced numbers wise
In what universe is that obvious?
dense steeple
nerfing something into the ground is not the answer
pallid bay
pretty obvious they are trying to make the 2p and 4p more balanced numbers wise
they did a good job
merry crow
In what universe is that obvious?
Because the 2pc was worth nothing and the 4pc was huge
dense steeple
if youre trying to balance something, and the spec is already not great
maybe bring the lower of the two numbers up
sudden flame
In what universe is that obvious?
buffing 2p that did 1% of damage nerfing 4p that did 28% damage hmm i wonder
safe kite
buffing 2p that did 1% of damage nerfing 4p that did 28% damage hmm i wonder
Yea so clearly not trying
lucid olive
dev: here's what we plan to do
gamz: ok here's the awful result of doing so, it ...
changes implemented, but worse!
craggy sonnet
pretty obvious they failed miserably tho
merry crow
CatSavage isn't saying they didn't fail in doing so...
lucid olive
they never told me about changing the 4pc pool from 3% to 2%!
lofty depot
Because the 2pc was worth nothing and the 4pc was huge
They couldve just added the damage to the 2p and we wouldn't be close to warlock still
jaunty blaze
We are just sandbagging is all
nova ocean
Maybe it's fake changes since no blue post 🙂
fossil hemlock
Yeah the aim was clearly to increase 2p and reduce 4p, they just failed horribly
normal pilot
ironically lowering the pool mult was actually the correct way to go about doing thing
lucid olive
Maybe it's fake changes since no blue post 🙂
in wowhead datamine post
lofty depot
Yeah the aim was clearly to increase 2p and reduce 4p, they just failed horribly
They didn't fail, they did that
normal pilot
could've just lowered the mult until cap wasn't an issue then adjusted things elsewhere
nova ocean
they did a good job
Wtf ilvl is that
fossil hemlock
They didn't fail, they did that
No I mean they failed the tuning portion
safe kite
CatSavage isn't saying they didn't fail in doing so...
You could say "They are obviously just trying to stop people from playing balance druid" and that would have more weight to it than claiming it's obvious they are trying to balance anything.
pallid bay
Wtf ilvl is that
684, its just a comparison of tierset
nova ocean
in wowhead datamine post
Ya but wowhead has shit datamining
lucid olive
ironically lowering the pool mult was actually the correct way to go about doing...
yes, either lowering the % it pools or lowering the Dryad duration and adjusting the Dryad's Starsurge cast time
merry crow
You could say "They are obviously just trying to stop people from playing balanc...
You're too dense. The 2pc was worth 1% and the 4pc was worth like 30%. They clearly don't want their set balanced like that. Thus the obvious goal would be to go to 10%/20%. They are just incompetent with this change
near raven
tbh its actually super easy. You design the tier set, you have the base damage of the class, you know how much % tier should be, you tune the numbers accordingly - its ridiculously easy math
if you cant do that I can only think youre also a shit dev
merry crow
Well that's not always true. They need to figure out the proper rotation and the TC
lofty depot
Well that's not always true. They need to figure out the proper rotation and the...
Blizzard doesn't figure that out
jaunty blaze
ppl even provide them the tools dont they
pallid bay
You're too dense. The 2pc was worth 1% and the 4pc was worth like 30%. They clea...
you say that but they didnt want to buff the 2pc, "the dryad should exist to buff the druid"
safe kite
You're too dense. The 2pc was worth 1% and the 4pc was worth like 30%. They clea...
You are giving them way to much credit.
lucid olive
you say that but they didnt want to buff the 2pc, "the dryad should exist to buf...
we are burdened by knowledge sune..
near raven
Well that's not always true. They need to figure out the proper rotation and the...
yeah but if a rotation change accounts for a couple 100% delta, you for sure fucked up somewhere
merry crow
you say that but they didnt want to buff the 2pc, "the dryad should exist to buf...
I guess that could be their angle, never heard that though
fossil hemlock
you say that but they didnt want to buff the 2pc, "the dryad should exist to buf...
So that's why they made the dryad a cheerleader?
lucid olive
I guess that could be their angle, never heard that though
thats what the dev said when he was approached with why the Dryad does piss damage
4 weeks ago
merry crow
Ahh interesting, was this just a chat with the TCs or an interview?
lucid olive
they don't chat with us
pallid bay
anyway just reroll something useful instead
lucid olive
it's more of a
"this guy knows this guy who works as a janitor at blizz hq who can talk to the developer"
merry crow
lmao
pallid bay
janitor 
dense steeple
hte devs are def smart enough to know not to talk to us
pallid bay
imagine the janitor stops by to complain about your implementation
dense steeple
because he would get bullied endlessly
normal pilot
hmmm
dense steeple
"this guy knows this guy who works as a janitor at blizz hq who can talk to the ...
you talk to pirate software?
normal pilot
time to see what the loss from nerf is if you use one button
merry crow
imagine the janitor stops by to complain about your implementation
maybe he's correct
safe kite
hte devs are def smart enough to know not to talk to us
I'm starting to assume that everyone at Blizzard is just like that piratesoftware guy that always talks about that he worked for Blizzard.
gentle scroll
Good Will Hunting leaving class notes on a devs whiteboard while emptying the trash
lofty depot
Good Will Hunting leaving class notes on a devs whiteboard while emptying the tr...
They can't read so that doesn't belp
lucid olive
I'm starting to assume that everyone at Blizzard is just like that piratesoftwar...
he actually never really talks about it or mentions it
didn't you know
jaunty blaze
never ever
safe kite
ah fuck my bad, that one time i heard about it in those secret recordings that he didn't want leaked. My bad
fossil hemlock
I love the compilation where he says "working at blizzard was such a good time, what a blessing" straight into "I fucking hated my time at blizzard"
lofty depot
Would have to be good will hacking and get into the computer and change some numbys
lucid olive
yo whos making the war within private server
lofty depot
U mean DF S1 private server?
fervent merlin
It’s all arctics fault
normal pilot
hmmmm
if you play the game using blizzard button assist
the tier set change is only ~5%
fervent merlin
They balancing against one button ??
normal pilot
well the button hilgiht, not one button
fervent merlin
Oo
normal pilot
lesseee what one button does
balmy light
⚠️🚨 NEW BALANCE TUNING in 9 HOURS 🚨⚠️
🔔☢️‼️
normal pilot
yo
jade drift
why do we have to suffer so much
normal pilot
if you use one button it's only a 1% loss
lofty depot
Fricc that guy
loud kettle
⚠️🚨 NEW BALANCE TUNING in 9 HOURS 🚨⚠️
🔔☢️‼️
normal pilot
it's clearly balanced
fervent merlin
Huge W
sudden flame
⚠️🚨 NEW BALANCE TUNING in 9 HOURS 🚨⚠️
🔔☢️‼️
crystal mortar
This good?
lofty depot
Ferals spamming balance thni g
lucid olive
This good?
no very very bad
lofty depot
This good?
Read the pin
crystal mortar
Oh ok sorry
jaunty blaze
lofty depot
All good is not true
near raven
its like in those nature documentaries: "this kills the male"
twin lotus
idk why is everyone getting all worked up when there are buffs inc tomorrow
lucid olive
what buffs
fossil hemlock
idk why is everyone getting all worked up when there are buffs inc tomorrow
Can you share your copium?
twin lotus
surely
fossil hemlock
My supply is running low
lucid olive
you can buff the spec 15% aura and it will still be dogshit in raid
lofty depot
Super Stupid Serum+
twin lotus
aahahaha
lucid olive
m+ers rejoice though i guess
twin lotus
good one
lucid olive
m+ers dont really notice this
but we're not that good in m+ on ptr either tbh
like a solid middle of B
twin lotus
ill never forget first day of PTR, going into a dungeon and just BLAsting down a mob with 2 starsurges
fun af
twin lotus
don't be sad it's over, be happy that we got to experience it
lucid olive
no i'm sad it's over
twin lotus
lucid olive
nobody gets to dictate what i can and can not be sad about
digital berry
We were never going to be that strong, blizzard would not allow it
fervent merlin
It’s all arctics fault
digital berry
Actually being so strong is the reason why we got absolutely interred
lofty depot
I never once played ptr keys
lucid olive
and thats why its your fault
lofty depot
Type shit
fervent merlin
Doesn’t even play frost spec type shit
digital berry
Frost bolt will do more then surges
lofty depot
Nah, it's piss. Gs be blasting for like 12m tho
twin lotus
we cooked too close to the pot
digital berry
Blizzard bias is really shining through this season
jade drift
shouldnt we just agree that boomkin needs a total rework at this point
clearly blizzard does know what to do with us
fervent merlin
Rework into next support class yea
jade drift
Rework into next support class yea
tbh idc anymore just stop making me believe every tier
dry compass
So we're full time EC is it?
brittle anvil
clearly blizzard does know what to do with us
This must be said in every specs discord lel
dense steeple
So we're full time EC is it?
yes
dry compass
I don't hate it but at the same time I hate it
lofty depot
shouldnt we just agree that boomkin needs a total rework at this point
Well we do, but they don't listen to feedback
haughty sluice
you mean like the last rework where the only relevant change was the 2 stacks of CA and the rest were just passive changes?
dense steeple
honestly yeah just do it. give me 4 tiers of being meta in a row
make me support op
safe kite
At some point our reworks need a rework
lofty depot
Gotta go retweet ur favorite expert. Surely they listen on twitter
digital berry
what if i dont have a favorite
lofty depot
Tragic
fervent merlin
Who can I pay off for buffs is the question
digital berry
the janitor of the third floor who is in charge of balance tuning
dense steeple
any of the other class devs who apparently are smarter at boomkin than ours
fervent merlin
Can’t be a law against that in video games surely
dry compass
I'm still in shock lunar calling exists
It was so obvious how that was going to end up
wet stirrup
Where are these 800% sp effectiveness Starfalls the Dryad is supposed to cast in the PTR? In aoe she's just spamming Starsurge anyways
lofty depot
They didn't like us doing it in DF S1, but made it a talent
lofty depot
Where are these 800% sp effectiveness Starfalls the Dryad is supposed to cast in...
She has the old starfall that has a cd
(this is a joke)
normal pilot
you can see the starfall graphics around the dryad at the start
but it's not actually on the dryad it's hidden on you
so it moves with you and you do the damage, not the dryad
stiff spear
So boomy deader than ele shaman?
dense steeple
yea
lyric thicket
So boomy deader than ele shaman?
We have tank dps
stiff spear
😂
lyric thicket
Dont laught you must cry
stiff spear
😭😭
crisp topaz
Also, isnt ele looking really good on ptr currently?
stiff spear
Single target got big buffs but not sure about how their tier set feels
Was debating between the two specs (I also heal, not sure if resto Druid better than rshaman). But after seeing how they killed boomy I guess I go ele
dry compass
I don't get how a change like this goes through this late in ptr cycle
stiff spear
Yea for both specs
dry compass
Does literally no one at blizz boot up internal test environment to play around with these numbers before they push them?
stiff spear
Last minute buffs and nerfs
normal pilot
they do test
dry compass
Or are they so bad at boomie that this actually plays like a buff in their hands
normal pilot
if you use one button mode then there is no nerf
dry compass
😮💨
ruby flicker
i can't believe blizzard would target nerf lorgokz like this.
stiff spear
Maybe we’re all missing something and boomy is actually overpowered and they’re still gonna slap, idk
Blizzard brains
dry compass
I mean, I think the EC set is going to be pretty strong
fervent merlin
if you use one button mode then there is no nerf
Got ai tuning us with a gcd penalty
dry compass
But the amount of feed-forward on Starfire casts on top of lunation is gonna make any forced downtime feel absolutely miserable
fervent merlin
Sadge
dry compass
Variance in dps is going to be wild with uptime and the importance of ABC go up big time
lucid olive
Tettles is playing Keeper of the Grove in a PTR m+ key
dense steeple
I mean, I think the EC set is going to be pretty strong
it wont be
jaunty blaze
tune in
dry compass
Don't need to tune in there will be a details screenshot of him doing tank dam in here in 20 minutes
tardy fiber
if you use one button mode then there is no nerf
they tuned spec around one-button mode and EC (best spec for one button). There is no coincidence bro
normal pilot
hm i should check EC too
worthy olive
Hey Guys,
the Datamind class change i dont get it. from 30->360% starsurge and starfall from 30%-800% in 2p KoP set. is that a huge buff? are we back?
dry compass
Hey Guys,
the Datamind class change i dont get it. from 30->360% starsurge and s...
Those are buffs to the dryad which does no damage, the actual important part of the tier set took a 33% nerf
lofty depot
Hey Guys,
the Datamind class change i dont get it. from 30->360% starsurge and s...
If the numby seems big, it aint
dry compass
Actually more than that isn't it, cause they brought the cap so low
lofty depot
They buffed the 2p and gutted the 4p
jaunty blaze
if something seems too good to be true its because it is
lofty depot
Read the rest of it
worthy olive
so its Joever
dry compass
Is 2p/2p viable lol
lucid olive
2p 2p with keeper better than keeper 4pc
dry compass
Ye that's what I thought
normal pilot
you'd just play ec 2pc
dry compass
Wait how do you play EC 2pc keeper 2pc
safe kite
So the answer is that it isn't viable
lofty depot
Not currently
safe kite
You don't play KotG
normal pilot
hm, for one button mode
dry compass
Oh you mean just play EC 2pc instead of keeper 2/2
normal pilot
4% diff actually isn't bad
worthy olive
Do we play EC Set in M+?
normal pilot
so if you only play the game with 1button then you can play either set
lofty depot
Do we play EC Set in M+?
U play EC in everything
worthy olive
in St too? 😮
distant oasis
hm, for one button mode
Arent some specs siming at 5-6M dps ?
lofty depot
No?
normal pilot
not in one button
dry compass
I think top specs were touching 5m before the most recent set of nerfs but that wasn't obr
lofty depot
I mean they weren't simming 6m normally either. Both were a little below avg.
normal pilot
also what other specs sim at is irrelevant since you have no idea the state of their sims
some may be complete, other may be oversimming/under
spark anchor
is boomie actually simming at 3.8 in 1t5m buffs
normal pilot
like ppl constantly point out demo but demo sims have a bunch of outstanding issues so unless you're well aware what those issues are then you can't compare
jaunty blaze
but numby big
spark anchor
feral is at like 5.2 rn
normal pilot
feral isn't 5.2 in 1button
digital berry
Wait but like who actually cares what 1 button sims?
spark anchor
wowhead
lofty depot
Its simming well under 5m
normal pilot
if you sim 1 button there is no nerf to set
dry compass
Wait but like who actually cares what 1 button sims?
We were theorizing that blizzard internally tested their hotfix using obr
And didn't see how big a nerf it is as a result
digital berry
there is NO way they would be that incompetenbt right
fossil hemlock
fervent merlin
Hehe
dense steeple
is boomie actually simming at 3.8 in 1t5m buffs
no? where are you finding this
dry compass
I mean it's either that or they knew it was this big a nerf to a lower-mid spec and pushed it anyway kekw
spark anchor
no? where are you finding this
gas tank posted sims but they’re for 1button apparently
normal pilot
if you spend $$ developing a feature, why wouldn't you force your worker to use that feature in the pipeline
dry compass
Maybe the max boomie hate brain rot has taken hold in the balance team
dense steeple
you need to see al lthe variables before assuming a number is accurate
spark anchor
i severely doubt they’re tuning around one button
digital berry
Maybe the max boomie hate brain rot has taken hold in the balance team
i blame max
spark anchor
you need to see al lthe variables before assuming a number is accurate
i’m aware, and precisely why i asked my question first
before making any assumptions
i was certain i was wrong in some way, and so asked
dense steeple
realistically, we're simming for like 5mil in 723, which isnt much better
dry compass
We were op for one tier and they've never forgiven us while mage is op every tier and they love them
spark anchor
it’s ok totemic enh barely hit 4.6 and sb asc is at 4.9
totemic is 12% higher than pwar
we’re all depressed
digital berry
how is an entire spec being dogshit the same as one hero tree being dogshit
spark anchor
demo so solidly at 6.4ish at the moment and destro hit 6.3
distant oasis
The gap between top ans bottom is too high
dense steeple
so the sim number is a joke
agreed
digital berry
ec sim numbers in raid are... not easy to accomplish whatsoever
spark anchor
is that the silly dryad minmax
dense steeple
no dryad in EC
spark anchor
i’ve never understood why some sims are written in a non human way tbh
dry compass
Wym you don't have pixel perfect movement and theoretical minimum downtime?
spark anchor
havoc sims are similar
digital berry
trust me they aint
ec sims assume 100% uptime which is impossible in a raid environment
and uptime is HUGE for ec
dense steeple
the problem is 2sec starfires in a world where you have to move every 1.3 seconds
spark anchor
havoc dh sims pixel perfect pick up souls
they've been sort of normalized as of recent tho
loud kettle
Acquire infinity haste
digital berry
Acquire infinity haste
and do 0 dmg
loud kettle
ye
spark anchor
but i was writing recall in for totemic and there was a minor increase, but in a way thats just truly not feasible for a human to play
so you don't include it
dense steeple
arctic swearing haste not good. but haste breakpoint needed to get any fuckin casts off now 
digital berry
my evoker is lvl 71 im omw
spark anchor
arctic swearing haste not good. but haste breakpoint needed to get any fuckin ca...
so what are realistic current sims?
for boomie
digital berry
0 cauyse nobody is playing that shit
nerfing the middle of the pack class to oblivion is surely a choice by blizz
lofty depot
so what are realistic current sims?
EC Sims at like 5.1m so take some off of that
dense steeple
id recommend taking off like 300k from that sim for top players, and another 2-300k for average players
fossil hemlock
What's causing it to oversim?
dense steeple
its not oversimming
fossil hemlock
Just insane reaction times?
dense steeple
its not accounting for the fact that we are perma moving due to encounter design
lofty depot
U think u have 100% uptime on casting Starfire?
gentle scroll
Moving is a healer mechanic
lofty depot
True, I have ice floes
fossil hemlock
U think u have 100% uptime on casting Starfire?
I did not say anything even remotely like that, I was just asking for the reason
gentle scroll
digital berry
dense steeple
i just pulled a tick off my face
slate thicket
Just insane reaction times?
getting starfire off consistently is harder than wrath and ec has cdr built into starfire so moving punishes you 2x
digital berry
wtf
dense steeple
it wasnt attached thank god but it was like 5 centimeters from my mouth
holy fuck
that was uncomfortable
digital berry
where tf are you
dense steeple
in my house
digital berry
that aint good
lucid olive
getting starfire off consistently is harder than wrath and ec has cdr built into...
also want to cast Starfire to stack the 4pc
dense steeple
i had to go outside and cut down a tree a little bit ago
so it def came from that
but like holy moly
errant flint
Trying to get lyme disease?
dense steeple
only way to avoid boomkin this tier ig
errant flint
LOL
digital berry
i got one on my calf the other day
distant oasis
only way to avoid boomkin this tier ig
Not only boomkin
lofty depot
only way to avoid boomkin this tier ig
crisp scaffold
Boomie buffed? Or I'm seeing things
lucid olive
seeing things
crisp scaffold
Ok 💀
dense steeple
lmao
boy saw the 8% from tuesday like " we're live boys"
didnt see the undocumented 14% nerf from last night yet
lofty depot
Read first line of 12 and says ooh buff
dense steeple
d
solemn idol
Or the 1100% increase and saw god
gentle scroll
Name a redder flag than a 1000% buff to something
crisp scaffold
It's 800%
digital berry
how did they eve n come up with thos dumbass numbers ffs
crisp scaffold
So from 3% to 2% is a bigger nerf?
azure echo
Who here has done the math to prove the doomer claims?
lofty depot
So from 3% to 2% is a bigger nerf?
Read under that
crisp scaffold
I see ,Im actually glad they don't know a thing ,wow was a gigachad game not flowers and planting trees
royal zenith
drifting nova
Name a redder flag than a 1000% buff to something
a 400% nerf
crisp scaffold
<:biden_huh:1256772046822576221>
See who are the people that are working on the game
azure echo
how far ahead was Keeper of Grove ahead of Elunes Chosen? Does this nerf just make it more equal to EC if it was a decent bit ahead of it in terms of damage?
digital berry
read pins
crisp scaffold
People went back to ec the second keeper got nerfed
normal pilot
pin doesn't answer his question
azure echo
The pins don't state how far ahead Keeper was above EC, or How far ahead EC was above Keeper pre-nerf
grand niche
Maaaaan kotg got schlobber knockered jeeez
azure echo
lol
dense steeple
it doesnt matter how far ahead keeper was
lucid olive
how far ahead was Keeper of Grove ahead of Elunes Chosen? Does this nerf just ma...
like 400k
dense steeple
what matters is that everyone knows you dont play EC in raid
digital berry
my bad
lucid olive
now its like 300k behind
dense steeple
and now you do
lucid olive
I was on the phone when I wrote the pin, I usually would've put like a sim or something in there
but now I'll just keep it as is I think
crisp scaffold
I don't want revert ,just make it good and fun ,wtf is that hard blizzard
Kids can make wow better than grown up adults
azure echo
what matters is that everyone knows you dont play EC in raid
i'm not seeing where in the rules of the game it says that
jaunty blaze
nowhere
digital berry
i'm not seeing where in the rules of the game it says that
what
lofty depot
I don't want revert ,just make it good and fun ,wtf is that hard blizzard
It was good and fun
crisp scaffold
Not 80mil bro
lofty depot
i'm not seeing where in the rules of the game it says that
Casting 2s casts is generally bad*
lucid olive
i'm not seeing where in the rules of the game it says that
really?
digital berry
damn that took you a second
jaunty blaze
oh shit i didnt read that
gentle scroll
jaunty blaze
am i geting banned
jaunty blaze
😔
lofty depot
Gamz on his joker arc
lucid olive
"I have read and agree to the terms and conditions" is the most commonly told lie in modern society
scenic mist
but now I'll just keep it as is I think
just edit with the link no ?
lucid olive
yeah but gotta make the sim first
dense steeple
gamz is crashin out confirmed
lucid olive
and looking at raidbots after nerfs makes me depressed
digital berry
this nerf was lowk cruel
azure echo
Guess the only thing left to do then is to go Feral 😛
lofty depot
U can go retweet ur favorite boomkin expert
jaunty blaze
not like feral is that much better
dry compass
U can go retweet ur favorite boomkin expert
You and adept caused this yesterday with your nonsense
@clever vigil fix it
vestal sail
really?
My rl seems oddly happy about this option.
If boomkin does no damage and requires no brainpower, nothing stopping from assigning everything to them.
digital berry
that.. is some really flawed logic
stone ledge
Time to find a new rl if you have a boomkin doing all the mechs
Like yeah we are mobile and can do some but that’s terrible logic
dry compass
My rl seems oddly happy about this option.
If boomkin does no damage and requir...
Or continue assigning everything to a hunter who gets to do it all without making you carry a defunct dps
dense steeple
My rl seems oddly happy about this option.
If boomkin does no damage and requir...
odd way to announce youre hoping to get aotc by the end of the tier
dry compass
And bench the boomkin
clever vigil
vestal sail
Or continue assigning everything to a hunter who gets to do it all without makin...
Hunters are making weird sv noises looking at their sims
lofty depot
You and adept caused this yesterday with your nonsense
Surely
lucid olive
yes.. take the blame
dry compass
Gamz is an angel that has never done anything wrong ever
royal zenith
ban gamz
lucid olive
real
for the sake of curiousity
this is if we got 15% aura buff
that number is still just middle of the pack
royal zenith
almost able to compete with warlock
dense steeple
shouldnt have posted that hypothetical
someones gonna come swipe it and say "this is what boomkins doom over"
lucid olive
and giving that EC is absolutely dreadful to play and the dmg profile sucks for raid
the number needs to be higher to be worth it
scenic mist
this is if we got 15% aura buff
can you show current (with lattest nerfs) ?
dry compass
Take number multiply by 0.85
lucid olive
can you show current (with lattest nerfs) ?
hm?
youd just play EC
this is current EC
royal zenith
(just take 15% off the number, cause you know, it's a 15% aura buff?)
lucid olive
depends which aura
gentle scroll
is this repairable? lmao
royal zenith
depends which aura
shush
lucid olive
https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rjtzWxueY1T5kpEKux95CK
also if you scroll all the way down the iterations in this
gentle scroll
so no then
scenic mist
youd just play EC
meaning current kotg is behind ? this is hard
lucid olive
just don't touch the cap
jaunty blaze
stop the cap
fossil hemlock
also if you scroll all the way down the iterations in this
Is this just a random build or was there some thought put into it?
clever vigil
I don’t mind playing ec on single target ngl
but I’m also looking at destro warlock so maybe I’m just cooked
safe kite
you should
gentle scroll
Is this just a random build or was there some thought put into it?
Yeah he just clicked the colors he likes
lucid olive
Is this just a random build or was there some thought put into it?
i took haste items and then unchecked talents to see what it would take
fossil hemlock
I did some funny random sims earlier and touch the cosmos and hail of stars were higher than shrooms+astro impact, but it was very basic just replacing current tier with new tier at 684 IIRC
Aight
lucid olive
there is no way cosmos is good with ec
you need to generate AP with starfire
cosmos doesnt spend AP
stone ledge
Inb4 they buff the moons so we don’t even play fury
distant oasis
I can shit on my keboard if i do good dmg (talking about moons)
obsidian tapir
we are so back
iron ore
Thats as ec isn’t it
craggy sonnet
yes but its also trash .. so why are you asking
obsidian tapir
Thats as ec isn’t it
yea
iron ore
Just wanted to double check
stone ledge
1st pull in gambit with 3-4 packs in doing like 18-19 mil dps that same pack on floodgate live im doing more 😭
But thats with 1 dead weight fire mage doing 0 dps and a arcane mage funnelling so the trash lived through both ca charges
balmy light
we are bench anyways. go next tier
solemn idol
You mean go next xpac
lofty depot
Yea just be dev and be op for multiple months
grizzled cedar
we are so back
Druid new aug Class ?😂
scarlet tapir
Yea just be dev and be op for multiple months
calm ibex
obsidian tapir
Druid new aug Class ?😂
yes :))
dapper nest
This season actually 
I just noticed I only had one craft after i got best in slots mythic
lofty depot
Oh, wrist, cape, boots, belt
dapper nest
Ty 
lofty depot
U'll not wear cape next week
dapper nest
Cape was a no no
lofty depot
Yeet
maiden pasture
Damn new pfp
lofty depot
Was new yesterday
real flax
we are so back
sick fossil
hey guys is boomie good next patch?
sick fossil
hmm wow
lucid olive
this fucking gravy guy
zealous river
yeah you should think about playing boomkin
stone ledge
Refund ideally
crisp topaz
obsidian girder
@sick fossil stay boomy. your the only druid on the roster
lucid olive
the chicken is a rooster?
lucid olive
irvine california
sick fossil
just out of curiousity
near raven
in a pineapple under the sea
obsidian girder
pretty sure they change dev every season
jaunty blaze
@terse egret
sick fossil
bro it says dev for feral druid
calm bane
there is 100% undercover dev, but nobody knows xD
night gulch
its a meme
night gulch
theres a dev here but considering the amount of vitriol that would be sent their way, its probably better that no one knows, even if they are dumb as shit
obsidian girder
night gulch
we've been hoping the dev wakes up for like 6 tiers now
sick fossil
yeah but
night gulch
keep hoping
twin lotus
Hey now, not cool threatening the dev
Behave
Also we are getting buffs tomorrow anyway
grizzled cedar
log off permanently actually
😂😂
night gulch
are we
even if its an aura buff, still stuck with ec unless they revert the tier set change for keeper
near raven
just make trees auto for 10m
night gulch
based, not like those fuckers ever cast moonfire
near raven
and rename it to "Convoke ALL the spirits"
lucid olive
make the dryad also cast convoke
night gulch
"Dryad now convokes at 30% effectiveness" Full circle type shit
you can already convoke in bear form
sick fossil
read what i said again
night gulch
it sends out boomie spells if it can i'm pretty sure
sick fossil
your telling me
bear form sends out starsurges
and wraths
what kinda woke nonsense is this
lucid olive
wrath yeah a couple
sick fossil
nah surely not
lucid olive
if youre not in melee
vernal mulch
Everything is gonna be fine 🙂 The fact that these changes are just datamine and not acknowledged in a blizzard poost leads me to believe they are cooking something 
Leaving us in suspense over the weekend.
There's always scenario of the past few tiers where you are waiting for buffs to even out with bottom performers in the raid eventually. 
lucid olive
good copypasta
sick fossil
Everything is gonna be fine 🙂 The fact that these changes are just datamine and not acknowledged in a blizzard poost leads me to believe they are cooking something Leaving us in suspense over the weekend.
There's always scenario of the past few tiers where you are waiting for buffs to even out with bottom performers in the raid eventually.
round field
Everything is gonna be fine 🙂 The fact that these changes are just datamine and...
you will not ragebait me
night gulch
Everything is gonna be fine 🙂 The fact that these changes are just datamine and...
its so raw Gordon Ramsay is about to burst through the wall kool aid style
pallid bay
and has a good day
stop this shit
sick fossil
stop this shit
?
night gulch
the nerfs were not
ripe slate
no i meant like tier at all
i didnt think they put tier in patch notes
didnt check tho
lucid olive
tier set isn't in patch notes no
royal zenith
it's in the datamined changes post
ionic oak
Hasnt been reverted yet?
ripe slate
right im js there's no reason to put tier nerfs in the patch notes since they were never in it to begin with xdd
i suppose im takin the copy pasta a bit too literally
night gulch
sure but they didn't put them in the ptr tuning notes either
which is wild
considering how much it changed
you'd expect ptr notes to have the changes
lofty depot
We get undocumented changes,.wcyd
ripe slate
last time they were a week late on that too lol
they posted like 1 line and it was typo'd for the wrong part of the tier set when they nuked it last lmao
lofty depot
Good thing gastank is here to tell me when something happens
night gulch
well yeah, it not being in the ptr notes is not surprising at all, they've been pretty bad about it in general
i know if there have been changes if i come in here and there is either dooming, or a new pin from gamz
lofty depot
"they", looks at all the blue lines in DK and mage
night gulch
fire mages got that undocumented 3% nerf last week, no one is immune but some classes are better off than others for sure
lucid olive
sure but they didn't put them in the ptr tuning notes either
they never do
lofty depot
fire mages got that undocumented 3% nerf last week, no one is immune but some cl...
They posted it this week tho
lucid olive
the only thing they put in a blue post about our tier this PTR was the change from the cap being 50% max hp to being 25x spell power
night gulch
fair, i imagine the mage dev actually likes mages
lucid olive
doubt
he just thinks having good classes is a positive for the game
where our dev settles for functional
dense steeple
Functional is pushing it
night gulch
is it functional to play elunes chose in raid 😭 asking for a friend
lofty depot
If u need motw and the boomkin can't play rdr or feral sure
supple pine
thanks for blizzard with waiting to make EC the single target build until I quit the game
ionic oak
Wait question. Just to clear things up for my smooth brain. We got hot fixed right? That killed our tier for keeper?
Or was it just datamined and not implemented?
lucid olive
hotfixed
lofty depot
It's implemented
ionic oak
For sure thank you. Mvp
cloud citrus
does our dryad do damage now
merry ibex
Lmao
cloud citrus
rip
gentle patio
We are just a pet
merry ibex
Probably already doing it
lofty depot
I told him to do it a week ago
gentle patio
Lock him up
merry ibex
gentle scroll
I wonder if we will be put in A tier again 🥴
lofty depot
By Yoda
nova ocean
At this point I think izen is more in touch then blizzard... Which is very bad
royal zenith
have to say, the video is not even bad
dreamy locust
cloud citrus
i dont think they are using the 1 button rotation rofl
safe kite
That would require playing the game and that is way to much effort for anyone at Blizzard
cloud citrus
pretty sure they are just straight trolling now
and we will get this huge buff on the 5th by like 30%
jaunty blaze
surely
lofty depot
Just waiting on gastank to say "so, they reverted it but"
cloud citrus
yes but a 30% just straight aura buff will be fine
lofty depot
No it wont
jaunty blaze
what will be the "but" 
lofty depot
Idk, cuz they've been doing some moronic things
cloud citrus
like you saw them buff demo in 2 patches by like 26% and they are the top st
we just get a huge buff to wrath / starsurge we are fine
dryad scales with its own spell power and the 4 set is like a 800k buff so it doesnt scale with the aura buff
safe kite
we just get a huge buff to wrath / starsurge we are fine
Hugh buff to Wrath while we're force to play EC. Sounds about right
dreamy locust
Has any skill in the game gotten more buffs than wrath you think
lucid olive
25x cap sims at 5.1m
solemn idol
Really it could be anything. Theyre just playing madlibs at this point with numbers and with what abilities/tier components they change based on what they pull out of their bingo cage of sadness
lofty depot
Recruitie showed a sim with like 15x, at 5.3
gentle scroll
Has any skill in the game gotten more buffs than wrath you think
Chaos bolt
lofty depot
Maybe 5.1 is without the dryad changes?
lucid olive
idk i did it a few hours ago
lofty depot
Check last like 5 minutes of recruitie stream
lucid olive
no
bleak dew
People seem pretty doomer on the tier set change, but i don't really care about playing EC, so is EC confirmed higher ST now/where our current highest build in comparsion. Anyone have good links yet for where we'd land if we're stuck on EC pure ST?
dreamy locust
People seem pretty doomer on the tier set change, but i don't really care about ...
EC is 5m
so like bottom of the barrel
lucid olive
People seem pretty doomer on the tier set change, but i don't really care about ...
EC in raid is dreadful
dreamy locust
but its best we currently got
lucid olive
like the gameplay for it just sucks ass
unless you don't care about doing dmg and you're just there for the vibes
which
all the power to ya
safe kite
If you don't mind playing EC in raids you really need to ask yourself why you like suffering so much
dreamy locust
It's not like boomy gameplay as been engaging in any manner since pulsar went byebye
solemn idol
No but just because you've been ball tapped for a while(which feels bad) doesnt mean you cant also feel extra bad when it goes from a tap to a full on front kick to said balls.
bleak dew
Yeah so tettles' twitter linked to the EC sim at 5.2M 5m ST, I haven't been following other specs too much, does anyone know what the top ST specs are alooking like for the same?
lofty depot
Frost mage 6.2, demo 6.4
solemn idol
That tettles sim also had PI baked in and added like 150k+ more dmg
solemn idol
reverse sandbagging
hotairing? flashbanging? airbagging?
crisp badger
he got called a sandbagger for sharing a sim with PI on it
how do you sandbag a sim 
loud kettle
Very easily, but how often it gets done (by any spec) is vastly overstated
lofty depot
Using wrong items, missing buffs..
crisp badger
you can see all those or
lofty depot
you can see all those or
Yes
loud kettle
Can see vs will see are also very different
loud kettle
Can go farther, bad class module
solemn idol
Theres also the perception side of things during raid testing timelines - some specs and classes go full degen to show broken pieces of a tier set or tuning etc. while being streamed but suddenly the context is lost and it impacts narrative. Often times puts a focus on the wrong shit.
loud kettle
Meanwhile the bug was losing boomy dps
nobody really knows anything, its just parroting
A complex game of telephone
lucid olive
"but they're also sandbagging"
its crazy man
loud kettle
nuhuh
lucid olive
and if i try to talk about it in any other discord than in here
i just get sent that fucking picture of the staircase
lucid olive
deux has kicked me down those stairs so many times
royal zenith
it's not the kicking that matters, it's how you get back up
merry crow
If mage got done like us it’d be fixed in a day
royal zenith
lofty depot
i just get sent that fucking picture of the staircase
Yea is sad
lofty depot
If mage got done like us it’d be fixed in a day
Mage wouldn't get done like this
merry crow
Fair
royal zenith
what the helly
cloud citrus
hell yea 8% buff
solemn idol
hell yeah brother
sick fossil
i just get sent that fucking picture of the staircase
wait what staircase
cloud citrus
o oh we about to get sent down a staircase 400 times
lofty depot
wait what staircase
Kick the boomkin down the staircase, staircase
fiery veldt
^
dense steeple
dense steeple
yes
leaden birch
aww man
leaden birch
is it just acceptance
lofty depot
That's why no one's been thymedout, cuz it's not doom. Trueeee
rich jewel
eager raft
the spec isnt really in a worse spot than it has been the last 5 tiers
lofty depot
It actually is
digital berry
its in THE worst spot its been
bronze quail
Is there a collection of PTR sims out there or? Im still living happily in ignorance
eager raft
drama queens
lucid olive
you can sim yourself on mimiron.raidbots.com
theres a profile linked at the bottom of Compendium to use
lofty depot
drama queens
Shut up rat
digital berry
do you not consider being forced into EC in raid to be objectively worse then anything we've had to do in raid in the last 3 years?
bronze quail
I was more interested in other specs. I know DHs sim like 5.3 so we arent that far off
eager raft
what difference does it make
youve played the highest simming talents in every other tier
digital berry
are you trolling
lucid olive
id rather play feral
lofty depot
I was more interested in other specs. I know DHs sim like 5.3 so we arent that f...
Some funny classes sim over 6m
lucid olive
I was more interested in other specs. I know DHs sim like 5.3 so we arent that f...
havoc also needs a buff
dense steeple
I was more interested in other specs. I know DHs sim like 5.3 so we arent that f...
DH sims are also assuming you full degen collecting orbs and shit too
which many people dont do
bronze quail
Hence my question tbh. If some specs are simming like 6m, I would like to know xd
eager raft
its ok if u dont like the playstyle of ec
bronze quail
DH sims are also assuming you full degen collecting orbs and shit too
Both yes and no, AR is not, FS is
lofty depot
Lock and mage are
leaden birch
is this the most up to date ptr sims? https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eeHVoCNTJeyW9gch51KhgK/simc
or did mm get nerfed after this
bronze quail
Lock and mage are
Ok so thats 2, anything else?
Im just trying to get to the bottom of all this dooming
Because sims are sims
digital berry
the dooming is our best st spec is horrible to play in raid and sim dps is unachievable