balance

[lofty depot]

Twitch prime is free

[lucid olive]

No prime is not free

[pseudo pine]

So how does it look on specc wise for raid/m+?

still kotg for raid or is it ec for both?

[strong bronze]

Ah rip , i dont have access to prime

[round field]

Ur not playing ec in raid

[lucid olive]

Maybe you're not..

[strong bronze]

26% that might seem like the biggest 4 pc gain no?

[lofty depot]

Well u can

On soul hunters

[round field]

Ec in raid = delete character angle

[lofty depot]

No

[round field]

Disgusting shit

Is rather ride bench entire tier than play ec

[lofty depot]

BM gets a 52% inc

[strong bronze]

What the....

[lofty depot]

But those numbers are from 0p and 2p

Not from s2 4p

[strong bronze]

Ok that makes more sense

[dire osprey]

is this 1% if u go from this season 4p -> 2p2p or is it from 0p at all to 2p

[lucid olive]

The tier sets this tier are powerful in general

From 0p

The 2pc dryad does piss damage

[royal zenith]

except for bamkin

[dire osprey]

so its prob a dps loss going from 4p current to 2p2p new

[lofty depot]

It is

Unless the 2p is 717

[royal zenith]

from 0p is framing

[lucid olive]

You won't swap tier until 4pc

[royal zenith]

smh

[lucid olive]

But with 4pc you replace insta

[digital berry]

Excuse you it’s 500 ish

[lofty depot]

So u don't swap until 4p at 684

There's been plenty of times where classes don't use their new tier til even heroic 4p

But 684 is normal so is w.e.

[royal zenith]

crazy how some paywalled shitty excel has more sims than the actual community

holding back information???

[dire osprey]

mfer locked the sheet too

i guess he figured out that having a public sheet wasnt the best way of going about it as everyone was just sharing the link

[lucid olive]

Thank god

People take those way too seriously

[dire osprey]

the people that do are also the ones that are gonna pay him to access it again

[lucid olive]

Truly unfortunate

People like arctic

[lofty depot]

He makes it public on launch

It's gatekept til then

[lofty depot]

I mean, I use the chart to see baseline % inc

Then reference wowaudit

I don't see the issue

[frank ridge]

so we 20% behind the best spec

[normal pilot]

not really because those numbers are wrong

[wide dawn]

If we are better than rogue then we are fine

[dire osprey]

yeah but the gatekept sheet was just a link that was getting shared

[sudden flame]

super outdated numbers

[normal pilot]

given lots of stuff is still not implemented/wrong

that sheet is just spreading misinformation purpsefully, for $$ i guess

[sudden flame]

true and real

[lofty depot]

And then deleted and reuploaded

[frank ridge]

wdym its logs by average, its just missing the recent nerfs

[sudden flame]

logs?

[normal pilot]

that's not logs

[sudden flame]

from what

there are no logs

[frank ridge]

sims

whatever

[lofty depot]

Not the same thing

[normal pilot]

why do you think those sims are accruate

[near raven]

not even close to being the same thing at this stage

[lofty depot]

At any stage

[frank ridge]

so how do we know whats the thing at this stage?

[normal pilot]

you don't

[lucid olive]

You stop thinking about it and move on with your day

[near raven]

logs would do it, if you had a sufficient number and a good sample - which we dont

[normal pilot]

that's the problem with charts & sheets like that

[frank ridge]

oh ok so you think that the sims are wrong because you think thats the results are different

but you have no source to think so

get it

[near raven]

sims sould also do it if everything was 100% implemented correctly and up to date, but we dont have that either

[frank ridge]

its an average

[normal pilot]

no

[lucid olive]

Gastank writes simulationcraft

[sudden flame]

brother you are so wrong its insane

[normal pilot]

they're intentionally fooling ppl into beliveing accuracy where it doens't exist

[lucid olive]

If anyone has an authority to know about it

[normal pilot]

it's not your fault

[lucid olive]

It's gastank

[normal pilot]

ppl know they're spreading misinformation and doing it deliberately

[lofty depot]

When is the gas tank sheet coming out

[pallid bay]

you're the issue..

might as well preach bloodmallet

[lofty depot]

I don't do that

[real flax]

yesterdays ptr patch notes was the last before release?

[lofty depot]

Maybe funny guy will come back this season

[lofty depot]

Who knows

[real flax]

we need more sandbagging blizzard isn't hearing

[near raven]

they might do something on friday, or simply push last minute to prod without having tested on ptr

[lofty depot]

Who's sandbagging

[real flax]

no one.. balance is tier f

[normal pilot]

they'll prolly keep pushing hotfixes thru the weekend

whether they announce what those are or not, who knows

[fossil crypt]

🐸 Were is that from ?

[pallid bay]

bro missed the entire conversation

[frank ridge]

I know that theres no way to distinguish whats good and whats no till weeks of logs

but someone release logs (or sims most of the case) and people say "thats wrong its totally different" but u can't see any source of why thats wrong/different and it pisses me off

maximum said liquid used windwalkers based on pre-raid logs and guess what they were not totally wrong about it

but fine

ill take that as a wrong list

all good

[pallid bay]

????????????

you do not have a source for its accuracy

thats what you start with

[frank ridge]

kalamazis

[sudden flame]

[lucid olive]

Oh yeah

Kalamazi the purveyor and arbiter of all WoW information

Tier list aficionado

[frank ridge]

they said themselves that it isnt accurate, and that it was an average

didnt saw anybody from there saying that this list was 100% it

[lofty depot]

Kalamazi a known truther

[royal zenith]

I have the real numbers guys

dw

[real flax]

seems legit

[pallid bay]

thats fake

[royal zenith]

I got this from maximus limitus

true story

[solemn idol]

[pallid bay]

i dont know what it is but i know its wrong

[royal zenith]

(it's logs from raidtesting 3 weeks ago)

[lofty depot]

Deux and sune are known truthers, idk who to believe

[pallid bay]

now i need to prove to you that its wrong though

[royal zenith]

[real flax]

3 weeks ago the bird wasn't fried chicken

[pallid bay]

you dont have to prove what it is or why i should believe any of it though

[lucid olive]

average of what

that graph you sent says 5.1m which was before an APL got pushed for keeper, and before a bunch of gear and effects got implemented to simc

you can go on mimiron.raidbots.com and sim yourself

https://www.dreamgrove.gg/static/sims/ptritemstrings.txt

here's a profile

go nuts

[delicate perch]

spreading this to every discord thanks

@vital hound toxic hour ping but new numbers dropped login

[royal zenith]

[cloud plover]

Real

[minor condor]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uP8MhbEDQpqhG62uqQEhX9 if this real its not that bad

[lucid olive]

That's not real

Has trinket that doesn't exist and is overstatted + was made before nerfs to boots

[minor condor]

but its close no?

[normal pilot]

no

i should just make all ptr sims change the name to "FAKE-<name>"

[minor condor]

meeeh i was happy for a sec

[normal pilot]

have you tried balance on ptr?

[minor condor]

i have not

[lucid olive]

Just make the yellow warning bar at the top be bright red and obnoxious

[balmy echo]

sure？

[normal pilot]

idk if red bar'll do much

ppl just gloss over things they don't like to see

raidbots will have that functionality with next patch tho, so i guess it'll be something

[exotic perch]

All you need to know is to cry for buffs pls

[minor condor]

why do u ask?

[normal pilot]

playing on ptr'll give you better idea of how things look than sims so you wouldn't get your hopes up

[rich jewel]

Show me the dungeon boss boomy gonna double CA as keeper

[normal pilot]

this is past week even with dslice hard disabled. 11% of ppl just pressing sim and not even reading if it goes thru or not

[royal zenith]

not even that bad of a %

considering most melee players that reroll still pick dungeonslice

[normal pilot]

well it was at 13% before hard disable

so ppl see it not siming and still just keep pressing it

[royal zenith]

okay yeah

that is bad

[lofty depot]

this is the good data I'm looking for

[lucid olive]

That's hilarious

[lofty depot]

Wait, it only went down 2%

Jesus christ

I'm gonna go spam it real quick and bring the number up to 20%

[normal pilot]

hm i guess it could also be just ppl using the discord bot

[lucid olive]

Does MDT sims return patchwerk on that or

Since first line in MDT is like fight_style=dungeonroute or whatever

[normal pilot]

hm not sure i think it's just w/e is selected in the raidbots ui

[lucid olive]

Yeah so it'd give patchwerk then I guess

[normal pilot]

4.26 mil balance sims ytd

[lucid olive]

Like half of those are me

[normal pilot]

4.57k sims past day, 9.5% are dslice

[rich jewel]

Delve sim

[safe depot]

hi all! i would like to ask your opinion if its ok to play guardian/balance on 1 druid or should i play 2 druids with seperate specs (for the loot/vault)

[stuck meadow]

play 10 druids

[lofty depot]

Uhh the only trouble u run into is early season sparks

[stuck meadow]

3 balance 3 ferals 3 heals 1 tank

[long juniper]

No boomie changes in today's patchnotes.

[lofty depot]

U mean yesterday?

[zealous zenith]

are we c rank? are we quite unviable next season?

[long juniper]

I guess so

[lofty depot]

Depends if u mean m+, which that meta doesn't get fully fleshed out til like half way thru the season

I'm which case boomkin isn't currently good

[scenic mist]

Unviable is really a word only for top world player

[sour gale]

We all going EC right boys and girls?

[fossil hemlock]

You can if you want to

Nobody stopping you

[cursive rose]

Why blizzard hate boomies

D:

[fossil hemlock]

What makes you think blizz hates boomies?

[obsidian tapir]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1170884158583746602/1384372021928136714/7320831648431688416.gif

[dry compass]

Damn that gif is fucked up

Like what you brought your cat home from the vet still half-doped and decided to punch it in the face for the memes?

[twin lotus]

idk might require some feral lessons from @sudden flame if the buffs do not in fact arrive tomorrow

[dry compass]

Psychopath behavior

[fossil hemlock]

(it's also fake)

[stuck meadow]

[jaunty blaze]

just uninstall dmg meter and never look at logs

ignorance is bliss

[lofty depot]

idk looks like boomkin is back

[jaunty blaze]

holy i take everything back

mr. tettleton saved boomie

[lofty depot]

just play with people that dont press buttons

[frigid yoke]

xD

[past tide]

UNVIABLE

[sudden flame]

[calm bane]

the dmg does look sus... have they buffed balance and didnt post anything or what?

[royal zenith]

the changes have not even been pushed live

[lofty depot]

UNDOCUMENTED BUFFS

[errant flint]

they have in my heart

[calm bane]

oh

xD

[lofty depot]

WERE SO BACK

[jaunty blaze]

totally

buffs tomorrow

[errant flint]

BACK SEAT

[drifting nova]

back of the bus

[royal zenith]

man it would be so much content if we'd get a undocumented buff

dryad finally doing damage

[jaunty blaze]

placebo buff

[drifting nova]

do you have silly tree spirits as ec

[strong bronze]

Windwalker got another 8% buff last night

[jaunty blaze]

if you feel like doing more damage you will do more

[rich jewel]

welcome to balance sandbag

[royal zenith]

nah

[drifting nova]

so its what

hero talent?

[royal zenith]

can you translate your question into human language

[gentle patio]

Fuck em

Fucking fisters

[drifting nova]

IS IT HERO RESTRICTED AND ONLY FOR KOTG

[strong bronze]

So thats what 13% aura buff in the last two patch cycles

[royal zenith]

no it's not hero restricted

but KOTG benefits from it by having it's hero talent connected to trees

you can still pick them on EC :3

[drifting nova]

I have no idea what you just said

[royal zenith]

I know

[drifting nova]

SPRECHEN SIE ENGLISCH?

[royal zenith]

kein english

only french

[drifting nova]

ja

[autumn raven]

what is this!!!!!!

[jaunty blaze]

WHAT IS THIIIIIIIIIS

[scenic mist]

show next 2 pulls dps

[strong bronze]

EC druid in high keys

[autumn raven]

he is beating pre-nerf DK

[craggy sonnet]

They indeed got nerfed

[drifting nova]

thats what you get for playing a real hero talent spec

[strong bronze]

Also to be fair in large trash pulls yes boomie is good , so i dont see much changing

[lofty depot]

clue he doesn't have eyes

[signal tangle]

im trying to figure out why my boomy is doing like 8mil 6 target dps on ptr

using keeper of the grove and doing nothing

wwhats new with talents and rotation

??

[lofty depot]

Did u read the tierset or

Also, keeper wasn't ever the best at big aoe

[normal pilot]

keeper set is bugged and does double aoe dps. i guess evenetually they'll fix it

[signal tangle]

so elune is better for aoe then

[lofty depot]

Well it's like that in live aswell idk if u don't play boomkin currently or

[lyric thicket]

Maybe isnt a main dk :3

[lofty depot]

No he's playing with only the best players

[royal zenith]

they also never die

[lofty depot]

Dk just did hm

[signal tangle]

i play boomkin on live

feeling like im doing more damage on live than in ptr

idk whats going on rn

holding like 9.5mil on live with 6 targets

and like 10mil on ptr

6 target

idek

[lyric thicket]

Thx

[royal zenith]

[round field]

Thats more damage tho

[signal tangle]

right but then i hop on arcane mage and deal 10mil dps without cds

so is balance just done for??

[round field]

Well

Youre most likely not a very good benchmark for spec performace

So your numbers dont rly mean a lot

[signal tangle]

this is true but i was just expecting to see some sort of damage in crease being 30ilvls up and having a new tier set

[strong bronze]

The problem you are also experiencing is , starfall is nerfed on ptr

[lofty depot]

That's not really how sequencing with us works

[strong bronze]

And you dont have the s2 tier set that amps starfall dmg

[lofty depot]

If ur playing the rotation wrong with the tierset u'll likely do very little

[strong bronze]

Due to mushrooms

[signal tangle]

okay so in chosen, its clear that starfire is the main source of damage

am i just not using starfall anymore

[lofty depot]

U are

[strong bronze]

You are

You need to keep up starlord stacks

[lofty depot]

Starfall is still the spender used at 2+ target

[signal tangle]

okay

[strong bronze]

And your starfire's need to generate AP to trigger the tier set

[lyric thicket]

Patchwerk 1 target Benchkin - 5 M damage

[signal tangle]

i hold around 10mil on 5 target

is that normal or horrible

709 ilvl no enchants

[lofty depot]

I don't have a bench mark for no buffs, no enchants, dummy damage

[signal tangle]

can i see ur benchamrks?

[lofty depot]

Yea one sec

[errant flint]

I think i enjoy suffering bc Im really gonna play this next season

[lyric thicket]

Boomie is love Guy

[rich jewel]

ready for #2

[errant flint]

nah my team will let me play no matter what

[lyric thicket]

CAN you provide to the team bottle of water ?

[lofty depot]

I only provide colorful commentary

[royal zenith]

of the color brown

[orchid ember]

That's Resto shamans job

[errant flint]

pov 🙂

[lofty depot]

https://x.com/adeptxo/status/1950937139786457489?t=eX4o6mNXcKAOsmYVgJTqhg&s=19

adept (@adeptxo)

X · Jul 31, 2025, 3:10 PM

[shy void]

unbelievable

[lofty depot]

God adept twitter content between tiers is goated

[glacial spindle]

Hunter looking a safer bet s3?

[royal zenith]

lolno

[cloud citrus]

boomy will be fine

they have been balancing pretty well the last few weeks im sure theyll change the lower end after world race is over

just like they did last 2 seasons

[lofty depot]

Go ask the hunters

[lofty depot]

We're not the lower end tho 🙂

[round field]

Why bottom 2 tiers in a row then

[wild dune]

Archon !

[lofty depot]

Just do the max and be better

[runic pendant]

Anyone got talents for ptr?

[cloud plover]

click anything

win

[lofty depot]

Can use the builds on dreamgrove

[runic pendant]

kk

[round field]

Unlucky racial debuff

[twilit star]

I'm out here believing

[loud kettle]

wait dont do that

[lofty depot]

Oh sorry one sec

[lofty depot]

Fixed it

[loud kettle]

ty

[safe kite]

Never understood if it was a bit or if Arctic has genuine PTSD when talking about logs.

[lofty depot]

What part?

[safe kite]

The talking about maxlogs meme

as if they matter

[lofty depot]

Well the max logs part is a bit yes

But the people worried about the bottom of the list stuff are often perennial blue parsers that would be better off playing better than being worried about where they possibly stand on that list

[drifting nova]

you calling me a flower?

[royal zenith]

you're a flesh eating flytrapper

[lofty depot]

Ur not even in consideration

[drifting nova]

[lofty depot]

Also, I like deux's bit where he plays devil's advocate always and tries to move people off their extremes and back to center. Is kinda fun.

[royal zenith]

that's... actually really true

[lofty depot]

I mean, duh

[errant flint]

Yanno I really cant tell how bad boomy is compared to the other dps specs

in St and m+

I cant tell if yall sandbagging hard or if its truly dumpster ass

[lofty depot]

Who's sandbagging

[safe kite]

I think it matters, not just because of actual numbers but because of everything around it. consistently sticking one class / spec in the bottom be it in raids or m+ is not cool from a sociological point much more so than from a mechanical but I get what you mean that a lot of the time you would gain more damage from just playing well than a 10% buff to starsurge, It still does matter and I get to have this opinion because I have 99 log on Mug'zee.

[drifting nova]

hero talents bad, more at 11

[lofty depot]

"they're trying their best"

They being my dev

[drifting nova]

do sims go off obr now or?

[errant flint]

ive hated hero talents about mid way through this season

[lofty depot]

I think for the most part u'll be fine in m+ but we won't be meta unless they buff Starfall at some point

But being meta in m+ is cringe so idc

[drifting nova]

I thought they were a subspec hybridisation of the parent specs..but they just arent

[errant flint]

Cuz for real I just work towards 3k and chill and push in mythic raid

I dont need to be meta

[royal zenith]

the latest nerfs brought the op specs back to the rest

you dont have to worry about tuning at this point in the tier

[lofty depot]

Looks at demo

"yea totally"

[royal zenith]

patch not out yet!

[lofty depot]

"brought the op specs back"

[errant flint]

I was truly hoping they would be fun pure fantasy

but nope

[lofty depot]

THE

[drifting nova]

was a game back in the 00s I played that had jobs, and further jobs in the tree hyper specialised into what they did, thought itd be like that

[errant flint]

Sims?

as in The Sims game

[fluid sluice]

Yea I like to make a balance Druid Sim and force it to play WoW all day

[errant flint]

It would drown itself

[fluid sluice]

Yea it keeps doing that I have a whole graveyard of them

[cyan vine]

Was returning to WoW for 11.2 a bad decision as a Boomie main?

[lunar whale]

yes

[snow elm]

i think boomie is fine and balanced as it is, you don't always have to be at the top every patch

boomie plays well to its strengths and is a valuable spec with lots of utility (even mark!)

[calm bane]

execpt when we cannot play to our strenghts cause there are no scenarios for it xD

[normal pilot]

if you're not first you're last

[midnight bough]

More tuning not see balance get any help

[errant flint]

its hard to cater fights both in m+ and raid to make every spec shine

[lofty depot]

We're at the bottom always, and never at the top

Thoughts

[errant flint]

Some spec is gonna be dogass for the content always

[lofty depot]

If there were actual talents that changed the way u play it would

Different sides of the tree could be put into AOE vs st

[calm bane]

mop talents back when?

[errant flint]

Sure it sucks but now boomy is NOT meta

and ppl sad

[lofty depot]

Not meta in m+

[errant flint]

Im very much used to not being meta in any content

[lofty depot]

And those people that are sad are fotm rerollers

[calm bane]

i feel like ever since sanctum, it has never been good in raids

[potent nimbus]

why would a fotm reroller care whats meta

[errant flint]

yes

[lofty depot]

Vault it was ok

[errant flint]

thats whe whole point of fotm is to be meta

[calm bane]

yes, but you dont care that a specifically spec is meta... u just reroll to the new one

[errant flint]

If youre speaking about me thats untrue

[calm bane]

no, about the fotm

xD

[errant flint]

If youre speaking in general yes fotm just reroll to wtvr is meta for that season or that time period

[teal lotus]

all this means to me is that it is a resto szn

[lofty depot]

Also the other people that care about the funny lists and talk it largely doesn't matter

[calm bane]

me too... unless there is stixx again, then i play balance for one fight and then go back to resto

[tranquil plank]

Isn't starsurge just the issue in general if we are always bottom boss dam?

Give it the priest treatment and consume 5seconds of moonfire when you starsurge a target or some shit.

Full st target spec and we are still bad at st....

[lofty depot]

Depends if u want surge to be 60% of ur total damage

They buff wrath with it sometimes

[olive hill]

hi guys i can buy the bests in slot mace now on HC mode now. but is that more worth that crafting a wepean and buying a trinket instead?

weapon ofc on highest ilvl

[tranquil plank]

How do you touch our kit while leaving aoe untouched though? Surge is basically the only answer ya?

[lucid olive]

Hell no L L L L L

[proven otter]

no, 681 weapon is way better

[lucid olive]

Wrath too

[calm bane]

stellar flare LOL

[round field]

surge wrath goldrin

[lucid olive]

That's the issue they have in general

[cloud citrus]

buff stellar flare by 300%

[digital berry]

What does this even mean. Just play what you want to play it’s not like your participating in rwf

[cloud citrus]

dot spec dot spec dot spec!

[lucid olive]

Buff Starsurge and we end up using Starsurge on 3 targets

[proven otter]

based

[round field]

dot specs are garbage

[lucid olive]

Then the herb picker casuals complain

It's not a coincidence that the spec has been bottom tier dogshit in raid ever since Starfall was made stackable in Dragonflight

[lofty depot]

We've been at 8 targets before who cares

[calm bane]

at this point, just make friend chicken out of us and delete the spec

[tranquil plank]

Prio damage you say?

[lofty depot]

Why can't there be multiple prio specs hmm

[cloud citrus]

i want prio dam

[lucid olive]

Prio damage would be like Starweaver

[lofty depot]

Cosmo grr

[lucid olive]

Difference between prio damage and just single target

[digital berry]

Wouldn’t a choice node with big starfall buffs and big starsurge buffs solve that problem

[cloud citrus]

theres many ways you can fix it

[pallid bay]

prio damage is fake

[lucid olive]

That's incredibly lazy

But yeah there's many ways they can do it

[teal lotus]

it means id rather play resto > boomkin unless boomkin gets uncastrated

[lucid olive]

You just have to let them cook and making what they think is the best

[digital berry]

As if any part of current balance talent tree wasn’t lazy

[lucid olive]

And then mega complain when they fuck it up

[tranquil plank]

Prio damage, damage to the priority target.

Single target, damage when fighting a single target.

[digital berry]

We are middle of the pack, idk what more you want

[calm bane]

yay, we get choose one, while mage has combustion and ignite and does giga Aoe while ST spec xD

[digital berry]

Don’t compare yourself to mages

It doesn’t end well for your mental health

[pallid bay]

we're doing fine

[digital berry]

In terms of numbers yeah

In terms of gameplay balance is doodoo

[lucid olive]

Numbers bad playstyle bad transmog bad

Reroll

[lofty depot]

Did u not see tettles blasting

Numbys good

[cloud citrus]

was this in mythic+ :>?

[tranquil plank]

Link the gingi clip quick!!!

[lucid olive]

@wicked shuttle get better at sandbagging

[lofty depot]

Yes

[digital berry]

Last three times I watched him he was playing resto, elly and lock or smth

[lofty depot]

Gotta go find another trinket that doesn't exist and give to ulria

[solar egret]

Sorry for interrupting, but do you guys know about a plater script/mod/profile that changes the colours on the mobs depending on if they have moonfire yet or not?

or how to code it for that matter

[lofty depot]

He played boomkin today

Both keeper and elune

[digital berry]

M+?

[wicked shuttle]

I should only play moonkin with people who are good

[proven otter]

https://wago.io/Ljbstbb_W/9

[solar egret]

Thank you, I will take a look!

[lucid olive]

No can't do that

[lofty depot]

They were very good, title holders surely

[lucid olive]

When your team has no hands everyone talks about you blasting

[lofty depot]

Best players of their spec

[wicked shuttle]

They held some title for sure

[lucid olive]

Even though you're doing season 1 numbers

[lofty depot]

Tettles wouldn't play with shitters

[wicked shuttle]

I was blasting

Somehow I was doing season 2 damage

But I was blasting

[calm bane]

undocumented druid buffs for sure

[lofty depot]

Type shit

[digital berry]

Don’t call ice

[distant oasis]

ST is poopy, s2 tier

[lofty depot]

Tettles for buffed

[lucid olive]

I did a 14 eco dome last week and my group kept saying "wow moonkin super good now" and both of them did 4m overall and I did 6m..

[strange edge]

So, we're back for sure.

[wicked shuttle]

LOL

[lucid olive]

I do more than that on live..

[wicked shuttle]

Do not tell them

[lofty depot]

Good players do good damage, hmmm

[wicked shuttle]

People constantly fail to recognize that

[digital berry]

Nah let ppl know in ptr they suck so they don’t get weird opinions about us sandbagging

[proven otter]

Thats some made up bs

[wicked shuttle]

I just don’t like to be mean

[digital berry]

Well there’s nice ways to say that

“You’re not using your class to its maximum potential, you’d beat me if you did “

[gentle patio]

Good players shouldn't play ptr so we look bad and get buffs?

[royal zenith]

it's very important to be top-dog on the PTR server

[calm bane]

"are you playing with 2k global ping?" also a good way

[royal zenith]

you dont understand

[digital berry]

We do not condone sandbagging

[proven otter]

Always underperform on ptr so we get buff

[lucid olive]

Very true

[calm bane]

it's very important to LET OTHERS be top-dog on the PTR server

[ebon plover]

it’s so over. 5% flat nerf

[royal zenith]

there's at least 20 people actively and seriously doing keys on there

(streamers)

[wicked shuttle]

Went to the vet today and they told me my cat was fat

[royal zenith]

you need to be part of the gang

[royal zenith]

LOL

oh sorry

[digital berry]

Time to get a catio

[royal zenith]

does he need to go on a diet now

[lofty depot]

Conspiracy says feral just got buffed and is doing big damage.

"The signs"

[lucid olive]

Tettles and his fat pussy

[wicked shuttle]

He needs to eat less dry food allegedly

[proven otter]

Give the Cat some soup

[digital berry]

Cats need wet food daily unforch

Or at least it’s very good to give it to them daily

[midnight bough]

Did blizz announce when they will murder weak auras and force the in house copy/paste to be used?

[lofty depot]

They're not murdering weakauras yet no

[lucid olive]

Yeah tomorrow

[royal zenith]

hows that unforch

take care of your little buddy man

why else have a cat

[wicked shuttle]

Yeah I’ve been giving him both

[tranquil plank]

Timed feeder and never think of it again

[midnight bough]

Ain't no way weak auras will be disabled 11.2 but it sounds like not anytime soon

[exotic perch]

its a sign its a feral tier

god bless

[lofty depot]

That rat said boomkin would be op

Can't listen to him

[royal zenith]

I hope they disable it sooner than later

[ionic oak]

Mid rwf would be awesome

[royal zenith]

actually, true

that would be insane content

[tranquil plank]

WA disabled for WF = they just find some degenerate way to still get their timers

[gentle patio]

Simple, personal, cooldown auras will probably just keep working if they will go trough with their plans. Customizing your own ui is what they want, weakauras faccilitates that.

What they don't want you to do is tracking things on other players, sending data between players and anything that makes raid mechanics nobrainers

[lofty depot]

Well timers can be put into dbm so is fine

[tranquil plank]

Reminders or whatever :P timers was a bad word there

[midnight bough]

Well how in the heck do I know if there are any interrupts then

[lucid olive]

So disabling MRT raid cd tracking

What's Max gonna be looking at

[gentle patio]

Yes

[lucid olive]

Is he gonna run spaceship 20 screen setup for everybody's cooldowns

[ionic oak]

Actual command center

Nice

[tranquil plank]

External app that parses the network packets, easy.

https://github.com/TrinityCore/WowPacketParser

[midnight bough]

What if they encrypt the packets?

[gentle patio]

A screenreader that reads every players screen and compiles it into a tool that displays everyones cooldowns

[midnight bough]

No http no more

[tranquil plank]

Then you are spending compute/latency on server/client side which is money.

[dry compass]

gonna invest in some quantum computers to crack the packet encryption obviously

[midnight bough]

Ur right blizz never gonna spend more money on compute then necessary

[royal zenith]

I like how the first thought you guys have, is to add even more 3rd party shit

[fluid sluice]

What’s ur cats name I bet its Cattles

[royal zenith]

wonder what the issue is with wow these days

[tranquil plank]

"if we don't do it echo will", as they fire up their 10th alt for the race

[dry compass]

the rwf arms race

[royal zenith]

you can also properly regulate the race

[wicked shuttle]

Doug

[royal zenith]

[tranquil plank]

It's not an official event, what do you mean regulate it?

[royal zenith]

well exactly

make it an official event

[fluid sluice]

Hell yea Doug

[dry compass]

what happens when some chinese guild who's not a part of the official event gets world first

and liquid and echo don't want to participate anymore

[midnight bough]

Not gonna lie solution is simple. Just have blizz spin up some tournament realms where everything is locked down and encrypted. Make it available globally at the same time on earth. Problem solve

[royal zenith]

well that literally can't happen cause they're not part of the event right

[tranquil plank]

Or just some guild that has people on their roster banned from official events lol

[royal zenith]

or you can just have them join

[tranquil plank]

Like they joined the MDI

[royal zenith]

why did you even instantly exclude the chinese guilds tyth

isn't that a you-issue

[tranquil plank]

They don't show up to official events (see MDI again...)

[royal zenith]

yuh

[dry compass]

just plan a global competitive event with 200+ people involved in different languages and timezones

its easy 4head

[midnight bough]

Oh and in the tournament realm limit number of alts per human allowed to a specific number.

No more gold farming or selling carried or 1 million alts

[royal zenith]

noone said it's easy though

[dry compass]

never mind the fact that the competitors don't want a blizzard-run event

[lucid olive]

Very very bad solution

[royal zenith]

there you go

[midnight bough]

Why is it bad?

[lucid olive]

That would require Blizzard to also enforce laws and rules for the race

Which they are terrible at

[tranquil plank]

If there was prize money, of course they would

[lucid olive]

The race is fun and good because it's a community event

[midnight bough]

They already enforce rules and stuff

[lucid olive]

If Blizzard gets involved and treats it like an eSport tournament it is a giant L for the race as a whole

[royal zenith]

yeah but the original idea was that it's a way to block-out the use of 3rd party tools

[fluid sluice]

They should add a 5th Druid spec where you turn into a naked mole rat centered mechanically around burrowing and being hideous

[tranquil plank]

Blizzard doesn't want to make it an official event. Imagine using a BFA belt in 10.2 :P

[royal zenith]

and you can also regulate a community event

[hard wyvern]

I wanna log into wow into a fantasy world not a form I already take

[royal zenith]

like what's the rule for the optional DH fight atm

[tranquil plank]

So Yumi, but a mole rat?

[fluid sluice]

shrimply put on a pants

[midnight bough]

Don't treat it like an export. Just give them a tournament realm so they can go do their shit on their own. No casters, no gold selling, no 1 million alts

[fluid sluice]

Yea

[lucid olive]

Not happening

[hard wyvern]

[dry compass]

considering how strong the boots are there's zero chance a team that skips it wins the race

[royal zenith]

that's an assumption

[tranquil plank]

They will have heroic ones...

[royal zenith]

and also not the answer to my question

[lucid olive]

Also considering how easy that boss was in testing

[royal zenith]

does RWF include the DH fight yes or no

[lucid olive]

Those are noticeably worse

[royal zenith]

or only killing the last boss

[warm owl]

It just creates a scenario where we have 2 races going on

[dry compass]

the buff scales with ilevel so heroic ones are significantly worse

[midnight bough]

What you mean by 2 races?

[lucid olive]

Yeah idk people often air the idea of tournament realm for the race and every time it is a stupid idea

[tranquil plank]

Sure but not 'guaranteed lose the race' worse.

[lucid olive]

"lol you're not real world first you didn't do it on live server"

[dry compass]

and you're going to have the intrigue storyline because there's going to be a guild that skips DHs to try and catch up to liquid/echo and they're gonna run face-first into a tuning wall on one of the last 3

[warm owl]

world first tournment realm and world first live realms

[dry compass]

it's entirely predictable but it makes the storylines fun

[royal zenith]

I think it's stupid there's a community event that allows weakaura's and 3rd party add-ons dictate the outcome

thoughts?

[lucid olive]

Make a better game

[royal zenith]

ah

[dry compass]

the whole game is built around weak auras and 3rd parties so

[royal zenith]

yeah

now it's blizzard's fault

[lucid olive]

Which they're in the process of

[royal zenith]

KEK

[midnight bough]

Ohh who cares about world first retail. You could have cheated and paid ppl to trade you loot or use your influence to have them give you loot and boes.

[dry compass]

thats a WoW problem not a rwf problem

[fluid sluice]

Still thinking about what if you could turn into a naked mole rat

[lucid olive]

You don't have a clue man but that's fine

[royal zenith]

wish I could turn into a naked mole rat

[fluid sluice]

Me too

[dry compass]

you can be anything you want to be deux

[royal zenith]

trueee

[dry compass]

razors, pink paint, and nudity are cheap

[fluid sluice]

They should add an additional Druid spec for every animal

[royal zenith]

anyway enough devil's advocate

delete weakaura's

[midnight bough]

And why is "who is the best at clearing the raid" often determined by how many carries they did in the 6 prior months/how many alts they no-lifed

[tranquil plank]

Tour de France style. Each day 2 bosses released, you are only allowed heroic gear. You get a headstart on each guild based on when you killed the previous leg.

[dry compass]

I'm all for the delete weak auras train if and only if we get customizeable cooldown managers that are comparable in thier ability

[fluid sluice]

Why can’t I turn into the loathsome earwig and climb into the bosss ear and kill it from the inside ant man style

[royal zenith]

their latest update post was very promising

I have faith

[drifting nova]

ha hahahah

[pallid bay]

bad onion

[drifting nova]

you kow full well addons that have been created over the years by ..well fans will get canned

[lucid olive]

That is a very recent evolution in the history of rwf

[drifting nova]

and ther replacement will be slop

[royal zenith]

think people just want to keep their "shiny" full-black elvui's

[dry compass]

I mean blizz ultimately has the ability to stop designing bosses that are solved by weak auras

[royal zenith]

they hardly think about the rest

[midnight bough]

Good sir it may be recent but that is the nature of it today

[royal zenith]

other then it being aesthetically pleasing

[drifting nova]

9/10 paid/dev jobsworths output is given the option for someone who actually wants an alternative is worse

[fluid sluice]

They should make a cooler version of WAs called Strong Auras with pictures of beefy guys and trucks and shit

[lucid olive]

The problem there has more to do with the distribution of loot

Also if they do fucking 30 splits who cares

[pallid bay]

they basically dont no

[royal zenith]

beefy mole rats?

[lucid olive]

Does it affect you

[fluid sluice]

Yea absolutely

[drifting nova]

only reason for the hardon for addons has gotta be console

[fluid sluice]

Do u guys think they will add truck nuts for wow mounts

[pallid bay]

it does yeah

[dry compass]

it affects me cause I make gold helping

[midnight bough]

If something is bad but it doesn't affect you directly does it mean that it is okay?

[lucid olive]

cries in eightsune

[drifting nova]

something something theres an adage for that

[lucid olive]

Does it mean it is bad as well

[lofty depot]

Eightsune isn't crying, dsune is

[lucid olive]

This is also a reason why the community event aspect is good

[lofty depot]

Eightsune blasting

[royal zenith]

well we can ask WF raiders if they like doing 30 splits

bet they love it

[dry compass]

they clearly love the competition more than they hate the splits

[drifting nova]

yeah but fuck the wf raiders

[dry compass]

or they'd stop doing it

[royal zenith]

maybe I will tag lorgok...

[drifting nova]

[royal zenith]

ask him...

well they're means to an end

[midnight bough]

I bet there would be more participation if there wasn't such a time sink requirement.. not only during the few weeks but all the other bs they do year rouns

[royal zenith]

like doing the dishes

[lucid olive]

Pointing towards splits as the big evil thing when it's a symptom of how gear acquisition has become

[royal zenith]

and how has gear acquisition become

cause splits always been a thing

[lofty depot]

That's like saying I bet more people would go pro in football if they didn't have to put so much time in

[warm owl]

I was gonna type a lot of shit but got tired half-way through it lmao. What I guess could work is something along this:
Blizz offers money, top guilds decide rules, blizz enforce decided rules to make guild eligible for the prize. As little of blizzard's terrible decision making involved as possible. Gather feedback for boss design over time and eventually things could get better and problems would be solved over time as they pop up

[royal zenith]

only solution is deterministic gear

[drifting nova]

but why would they do that

[royal zenith]

if there's rng involved, you will forever do anything to counter the rng

aka increase the odds

[warm owl]

Oh, no reason at all, just thinking of something that could work to make the rwf more appealing and less grindy

ofc a director or CEO would never approve that

[royal zenith]

or regulate the amount of splits...

[drifting nova]

submit 20man rosters

only those chars

[royal zenith]

real

[midnight bough]

No matter how much time I put i will never dunk so it don't matter. Plus there is no need to have such a big time sink when it's digital in real world can't normalize all humans

[lucid olive]

So you're saying that given enough time and 20 characters you could raid in liquid

[royal zenith]

who's saying that

[midnight bough]

No my brian too slow

[fluid sluice]

Damn why u gotta throw my man Brian under the bus like that

[royal zenith]

wcyd, brian is just slow

[fluid sluice]

[royal zenith]

the bus went faster then we thought

[midnight bough]

But there are those out there that could. They even had some dh during sl stop doing raiding.. not because of the few weeks during but because of all the other bs

[fluid sluice]

Don’t tell him that!!!!

[royal zenith]

he will catch up next week...

[royal zenith]

Avade

[midnight bough]

Yea and he's not the only one. Even guides that tried to be first disbanded due to the time investment vs revenue incoming equation not mathing

[lofty depot]

The effort is what they're willing to put in

They put in that much because they deam it necessary to do the content they want to do, in the time frame they want the result in

[lucid olive]

How do you get more revenue

[cloud citrus]

7 DAYZ

[midnight bough]

Get more revenue if you win

[lucid olive]

Having tournament realm race that last 4 days would be a net loss for guilds revenue

[midnight bough]

I think

[drifting nova]

you do what shouldve been done all along

have blizzard pony up

[lofty depot]

I do wonder how much the liquid guild makes during those 2 weeks

[royal zenith]

aren't you a maximus fanboy

ask him..

[drifting nova]

prob less than the sales

[lofty depot]

Gamz can when he does the tier list

[royal zenith]

(jk I dont even know)

[lucid olive]

All they make is sponsors and other shit from the content they make around the race as an event

If the race is shorter they make significantly less

[lofty depot]

Well I guess the guild and liquid it self is different

[lucid olive]

Even eSports with real prize money is not sustainable without content and sponsorships

The eSports bubble has burst years ago now

[midnight bough]

What if it didn't need to be a job/esport?

[royal zenith]

I mean, if you don't want to regulate it or don't want to entertain the idea of doing it in a controlled environment

you can also just never be mad they use exploits

to win

[lucid olive]

Then why would you make tournament realm

[full sleet]

Didn't league and overwatch cause the burst

[drifting nova]

god owl was a disaster

[full sleet]

League especially had huge franchising deals that blew up, especially the TSM deal with Sam bankman-fraud

[lucid olive]

Are you making the race on tournament realm so the competitors can play less characters and the race is over faster?

[midnight bough]

To have an even playing field for all those that want to try to get together and do the thing faster without gold or other bs

Like in the olden days video games played for fun not money

[lucid olive]

I play WoW for fun

Why would I play if it wasn't for fun

[lofty depot]

They play in rwf for fun until they don't have fun

[past tide]

Tier list

[steel sedge]

Back in the older days we used to RMT sooo

[past tide]

Boomy 5th?

Gaslighters?

[drifting nova]

"older days"

[lucid olive]

And how is it not an even playing field now

[lofty depot]

Get mad about that

[lucid olive]

What's stopping your guild from raiding 20 hours a day

[lofty depot]

Who's tier list?

[past tide]

Idk this sheet

[royal zenith]

resto druid S-tier, get out of here mattiu

[past tide]

Hi deux

[midnight bough]

Sir I have a job

[past tide]

Its bugged

[royal zenith]

literally cannot say ANYTHING

also hi

and?

[lucid olive]

So does most of Echo?

[past tide]

If they fix bug it goes to f tier

[royal zenith]

now that's sandbagging

[past tide]

[lofty depot]

Mattiu gonna blast for 2 weeks while it's bugged, it's fine

[past tide]

We still got 1 more week where it could be fixed

Im prayge

(Praying it doesnt)

[royal zenith]

you're gonna get fixed like

on release day

without buffs to compensate

[past tide]

That would be

Insane

[dense steeple]

are we really already having the discussion about headstarts and inequalities because eu vs na

[royal zenith]

what

[lucid olive]

No

[royal zenith]

[midnight bough]

Ok do you agree with this statement?

Whether you sold a lot of carries in the 6 months before the race and can get ppl to give you loot/BOEs is currently a factor in determining who wins the thing. In other words, what you do outside the actual raid and for months before the raid impact your success in the race?

It's like saying "ok we are going to have a mascar race and if the race team gets enough money they can put wings and a jet engine on their vehicle"

[lofty depot]

No, because u could just buy them without doing carries

[dry compass]

they can and did do splits without paid helpers for multiple tiers

paid helpers is a relatively new phenomenon in the rwf

[drifting nova]

+8hours btw

[ripe slate]

i will not be baited

[midnight bough]

Even things like being able to buy BOEs is part of it.

If it was allowed for Nascar teams to put wings and a jet engine on their car as long as the team could pay for it + were drove their cars for 500 laps daily during the 6 months before the race day that it would be fine

[meager storm]

is this copied from chat gpt

[midnight bough]

No it's from my head

[meager storm]

gotta let that thought go man its inflating ur head

[lofty depot]

NASCAR is the comparison ur looking for

[lucid olive]

Yeah it do be full of air that's for sure

[lofty depot]

Cuz they do do that

[midnight bough]

They don't, but if they proposed that change would ppl say it is maybe it more or less of an even playing field?

[meager storm]

wtf are we talking about man

[cloud citrus]

do people watch nascar

i still have one of those sets from when i was young

[midnight bough]

I can give you a different example if you would like. Off topic I would probably trt watching it if one team spent a billion dollars and entered their jet fighter in the race

[vital hound]

So you think they win because they can buy boes

[meager storm]

echo totally lost last tier cuz of boes

and the one before it

https://tenor.com/view/ウマ娘-プリティーダービー-uma-musume-umamusume-try-not-to-laugh-ishowspeed-gif-6659513674155506691

[fervent merlin]

Hero boes don’t matter at all lol

[royal zenith]

they matter to me

!

[celest narwhal]

Does someone have the sim sheet

For all the specs and their hero talents

[lofty depot]

yea but im gatekeeping it

[celest narwhal]

The usual from you

[obsidian tapir]

my mom is kinda homeless

[true viper]

speed im watching the stream right now why u trying not to laugh bruh

[serene elk]

Another day
Another none buff 🙃

[meager storm]

we are fine

[night gulch]

have you considered that we could be better though

[meager storm]

well if other specs keep getting nerfed we will end up there

we just need to avoid getting nerfed ourselves

[vital hound]

we're gucci

boomkin on top

couple of good fights for us with the amps

[lofty depot]

fuck it, im a frost mage

[meager storm]

couple? last 2 have amps

thats the dream

i was coping but we may see boomy on rwf again

[vital hound]

2 = couple

[meager storm]

🙏

[vital hound]

idk what else to say

factually correct statement

still hated on

[meager storm]

my bad gangy

[vital hound]

we're 100% gonna be in on dimensius

bear stinks

you dont want too many feral

[meager storm]

resto is good

[vital hound]

resto is good cause of the bug

itll get fixed

[meager storm]

idk how long the amp will be

but if its anything under 15s

boomy is the most bursty spec atm im pretty sure

on that window

[tranquil plank]

The one from ulria is available to if you sub on Patreon, but it's about as useful as a wet tissue until apls etc are 'solved'.

[vital hound]

boy is that good news

[fathom nebula]

Is this right?

[sudden pawn]

whats wrong about it

[pallid bay]

yes?

[sudden pawn]

looks normal to me

[craggy sonnet]

this is not lycaras teachings

[fathom nebula]

Just making sure they didnt write the wrong form names on the buffs so its not a broken talent

[meager storm]

ggs 2 boomies

[vital hound]

shade never been more prepared

[meager storm]

our tier

holy

finally sub 100

[vital hound]

you guys have been working towards

[meager storm]

[craggy sonnet]

its supposed to give each form a small bonus from another one

[vital hound]

this very moment

for like 4 years

just to get nerfed week 0

[royal zenith]

that's toxic positivity sheep

smh

[real flax]

time to learn resto

[vital hound]

log the fuck in

its boomkin season

[real flax]

lie to me, tell me moonkin is meta

[vital hound]

two boomkins on dimensius

you heard it here first

[meager storm]

which means

[lofty depot]

time to learn mage

[vital hound]

also liquid have been gearing lots of shamans/priests/evokers recently

[meager storm]

boomy the whole raid

[vital hound]

if there's anything to note there

[real flax]

aswell

[dreamy locust]

Liquid gears lots of everything

[vital hound]

priests are to heal

fwiw

[meager storm]

hear me out

2 boomies, 2 augs

people will call me crazy

[vital hound]

people do call you crazy

holy shit we got patch notes

https://tenor.com/oIzffjSsNkK.gif

[obsidian tapir]

only from the patch post alone you can see blizzard hating some classes

[vital hound]

good

delete mage

[lofty depot]

big changes

[obsidian tapir]

vs

[true viper]

Dude how does shadow get a rework every tier

[vital hound]

[errant flint]

fake news

[obsidian tapir]

no way this is normal :))))

where can we find the team responsable for balance ?

[lofty depot]

normal for who, us? yes

[royal zenith]

kind of a big difference between an announced rework

[obsidian tapir]

team aka the person

[royal zenith]

versus just buffs/nerfs

people being melodramatic again...

[lofty depot]

[meager storm]

isnt this old stuff

[round field]

i want developer to work on my class

[meager storm]

like a summary

[royal zenith]

ye

[lofty depot]

yes

[royal zenith]

just a recap

[round field]

not just turn number knobs

[royal zenith]

midnight

we'll get a rework

for sure

Voidkin is coming

[dense steeple]

this is all the stuff from the last like week and a half of wowhead articles

none of this matters

[royal zenith]

after Entropy got released

[true viper]

is this the worst ptr cycle in history

[errant flint]

Oh no wait youre real

for real this time

[dense steeple]

no

[errant flint]

theres been worse

[fathom nebula]

Patch 6.1

[true viper]

Old ahh

[lofty depot]

tettles playing with jdot and not streaming

[errant flint]

you know why right

no one clip anythign thx

[vital hound]

ya

its official notes

everything together

[lofty depot]

WERE SO BACK

[errant flint]

stahp

[vital hound]

DELETE THIS

[meager storm]

delete it

[errant flint]

delete

[vital hound]

https://tenor.com/dxgdvOBEWfC.gif

[meager storm]

ggs

our sandbag plan almost worked

[lofty depot]

only first pull of priory 😛

[lucid olive]

It's fine @wicked shuttle just plays with people who are bad at the game and that's why we look strong

At least that's what he said..

[lofty depot]

that is what he said

[errant flint]

[ripe slate]

i see orange number high me happy

[mighty mica]

wouldn't even make banned users do that

[vital hound]

idek what the thick of it is

[mighty mica]

KSI's song, it's really bad

[dense steeple]

whos ksi

[mighty mica]

google dot com

[dense steeple]

never heard of him

[mighty mica]

okay

cool bro

[vital hound]

oh god

damn shame

[lofty depot]

hes the guy that made the really good sports drink Prime

[vital hound]

cause the thick of it

is great tv

[lucid olive]

It's short for knowledge strength integrity

[dense steeple]

ah yes, the core values of the carebears

[vital hound]

https://tenor.com/bsWsu.gif

[lofty depot]

that look like goop

[vital hound]

someone needs to do

an ai face replace

and make goop tai lopez

[pallid bay]

what was the deal with tai lopez

[dense steeple]

||whos tai lopez||

[light pollen]

Guy in the gif

[dense steeple]

oh

[light pollen]

Very early like YouTube grifter

[vital hound]

rented a lambo

[dense steeple]

i'll ask goop to do it

[vital hound]

put it in a garage

[dense steeple]

standby

[vital hound]

started talking about books