There are so many variables
#balance
woven igloo
Where are people going to move their belt emblishment to?
pseudo merlin
bracers
cursive ridge
Don't use it as metric to base performance off of, post a log instead
Okay -- thank you -- once I figure out how Warcraft Logs works I will
pseudo merlin
cloak
delicate perch
You’re very limited with embel slots why would you not use wrists
pseudo merlin
there's 3 choices right, belt wrist cloak?
so there's only 2 choices
or well, no choice
lone sand
Greetings All,
How are you doing? I just dinged my Balance Druid Today and I would like to know which is the updated website/guide should I look at along with macros for both Raids/M+, please? Thank you in advance.
exotic perch
the dreamgrove.gg guide is good id use that
jade flume
there's 3 choices right, belt wrist cloak?
Belt is higher statted than wrists or cloak
so it should be just wrists+cloak anyways
pseudo merlin
ah is it
lone sand
the dreamgrove.gg guide is good id use that
Thank you so much
median anchor
Does anyone do log reviews here? I have a friend who needs some help
teal minnow
Post your "friends" ;););):) logs and people will generally take a look
median anchor
Can it be due to him not spam clicking between GCD?
lofty depot
I am enembriated
pseudo merlin
I am enembriated
Hi Enembriated
median anchor
Are there any other glaring issues in terms of casts?
median anchor
I get that, but at least in terms of what he is supposed to press, does it look okay?
lucid olive
it's hard to say when the frequency of casts isn't right
no reason to wrath here
playing wrong talents on vexie
played the same talents on cauldron
which is also wrong
median anchor
I also asked him to do like 2 minutes of DPS on dummies at Dornogal and compare it to Raidbots, he was simming like 2.3m and doing 1.6m DPS
pseudo merlin
make sure you sim target dummy
median anchor
Told him to turn off all buffs etc too so shouldn't be like a BL issue or something
pseudo merlin
not to mention that dummies tend to be super fucky
median anchor
Just 2 mins of dummy beating to see if you are doing casts properly
Should be close to a raidbots sim number in terms of casts etc, not exact but a good guideline to follow
lucid olive
it's not meant to be a benchmark "oh i can get this DPS under these parameters and if i don't hit that dps on a dummy I am playing bad"
lucid olive
Should be close to a raidbots sim number in terms of casts etc, not exact but a ...
so are reading guides
median anchor
Not saying that, just saying the cast numbers should be relatively close so you can see if you are doing something very wrong
median anchor
He came back after a long break and im trying to help him out atm 😄
lucid olive
see if uptime bad or uptime good
uptime bad
presses Starfall on Vexie outside of Eclipse
lost a cast of convoke
no leg enchant
no ring gems
median anchor
Sheesh what has this fucker been doing 😄
teal minnow
He came back after a long break and im trying to help him out atm 😄
Just needs to press buttons, like always be casting esp on a zero downtime boss
lucid olive
banger
median anchor
Yeah, when I saw how low his damage numbers were I thought it was something fundamentally wrong with his rotation
10 seconds of no casts?
Is that real
lucid olive
still uses Wrath in opener on Cauldron
median anchor
Thanks for the detailed look
So basically his understanding of the rotation is not horrid but he has lots of afk time between casts for some reason, thats the feedback ill give him then
lucid olive
still uses Wrath in opener on Cauldron
this is I assume because he thinks Starlord is a priority in opener even though Convoke will stack Starlord for him and Starlord gives no value to Convoke
median anchor
Apart from dying etc
lucid olive
A lot of players get fed lines about how important it is to minmax Starlord and then they lose casts because of it
teal minnow
this is I assume because he thinks Starlord is a priority in opener even though ...
Or it's the "gotta press starsurge three times in opener...but I'm just short so ill wrath"
digital berry
is week 1 belt already going to be good or will it get good with further upgrades?
lucid olive
already good
median anchor
I'll also recommend him this Discord, he will appear here this week 😄
Thanks for the help guys
placid apex
is dotting up mage funnel mobs more or less boss dmg if you have an arcane mage
like does you having dots on them to gain astral power make the boss take longer to kill because the funnel dies slightly faster which is worse for mage
lucid olive
i wouldn't moonfire them
stone ledge
I have failed everyone so much damage loss
stone ledge
It’s hover
stone ledge
Jover
placid apex
moonfire spreads too sometimes whenever you reapply to the boss
lucid olive
yeah can't help it
placid apex
just weird since it looks god awful on details, i feel like it's better but idk for sure
lucid olive
depends on the situation i guess
1st boss darkflame you just ignore adds
big momma in floodgate you for sure dot the adds
placid apex
yeah i was thinking on like top specifically for example since there's a lot of fights with adds coming in
or when you bring adds into the fights for extra funnel
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8mjfQYD4dMPGTZ9X?fight=11&type=damage-done&pull=7 gorechop specifically always feels weird
some groups im in blow up the adds some leave them up forever and it gets messy so i just defaulted to starfall spam
pseudo merlin
If making the timer is not a concern, spam the fuck out of starfall on gorechop
placid apex
but idk if thats grief
pseudo merlin
They need to die right, so if they can die in a way where it helps boss damage like with arcane mages you leave it to them. But if you get to a situation where you're constantly dealing with 2 sets of adds it means there isn't enough damage on them so you can chip in.
placid apex
when i starfall it's very rarely ever 2 sets at once or it'll be 2 sets for just a moment before they die but the fight lasts longer because less st obviously
pseudo merlin
I feel like with the comp in the link you posted, there's really no reason for you to be aoeing
placid apex
ngl idk anything about this season's frost dk dmg profile or how the spec plays at all so i had no idea if the adds would get handled
delicate perch
You defs want to not get overrun with gorechop adds
So it’d depend on who can kill em the best
strange granite
Frost dk cleaves their oblit on targets inside dnd
So their damage profile os cleaved oblits, frost strike on a prio mob then their talents doing aoe( shattered frost, icy death torrent, glaciam advance and so on)
lucid olive
oonga boonga
strange granite
So adds moving a lot as they do on gorechop is cringe for frost
placid apex
i was trying to vortex on cd pretty much since i knew that helped for arcane but didn't know if that did anything for frost
vital hound
You defs want to not get overrun with gorechop adds
this may be troll
but i just press starfall that entire fight
strange granite
Adds are dangerous man
You can easily get unlucky and you or your healer gets 2 leaps and disappears
slender dragon
hey guys any reason to double wrath to enter eclipse just before pressing incarn ? i see dwilkz doing this a lot in keys
pseudo merlin
Yes, out of combat so you can get 2x dreamstate
scenic mist
hey guys any reason to double wrath to enter eclipse just before pressing incarn...
See Nature’s Grace section in the compendium guide pinned for more information 😉
The tech is to cycle through sundered firmament, but you have to cast your wraths while out of combat
slender dragon
i mean he use his 2 NG stacks for wraths before using incarn instead of pressing incarn and use this 2 stacks to starfire
he's already in combat, he's doing that after doting
its the good timestamp
he's doting then double wrath then incarn, he's doing that pretty often
lucid olive
dwilkz is big viber
slender dragon
for me he's just losing NG's stacks for useless wraths instead of just pressing incarn but i can be wrong
delicate perch
but i just press starfall that entire fight
Ya I mean the leaps can be kinda cooked 
timer is rarely an issue for top in the average key
pseudo merlin
Is there a macro for auto tossing innervate on healer
teal minnow
Is there a macro for auto tossing innervate on healer
This one?
pseudo merlin
NAh I know about party frame, used a lot in arena
unless I'm tripping, isn't the healer position in the party random/based on invite order
or is it just based on how the group was formed
vital hound
Ya I mean the leaps can be kinda cooked <:shrugeg:1115674346120294591> timer is ...
my first 16 was a plus 2 lol
That place is fucking free
pseudo merlin
pseudo merlin
https://discord.com/channels/114145367322394624/121880895211831302/1369653831750...
anyway cheers ^^
fiery harness
Should i craft 681 bracers + cloak or wait for tomorrow
vital hound
what ya waitin for
vital hound
delicate perch
well
fiery harness
he told me i should buy them
meager storm
well time to boost a new druid
delicate perch
delicate perch
meager storm
fiery harness
well time to boost a new druid
I can't finish mythic raid tho
vital hound
unc got the 1500 dollar cartier shades
fiery harness
theres no shot
delicate perch
I can't finish mythic raid tho
sure you can 
little kelp
Pardon my question! Is it possible to disable the 'swipe' animation in game? Would really like to be rid of it.
meager storm
what is the swipe animation? the yellow line thingy?
little kelp
yeah
fiery harness
sure you can <a:pepegaSwipe:761557601103904788>
im not paying $800 for a boost lol
pseudo merlin
ill do you for 500
delicate perch
im not paying $800 for a boost lol
RMT??? REPORTED
little kelp
let me check
Appreciated!
little kelp
I'm not opposed to installing an addon to be rid of it. I've tried ELVUI, OmniCC, and WAs and the WAs that supposedly remove it didn't wory, so.
vital hound
ban all boosters wen
how you gonna clear any content then kekkers
drifting nova
have you tried not speccing into double incarn
vital hound
setting yourself up to fail
drifting nova
how you gonna clear any content then kekkers
once I knock down the boosters down a few hundred pegs
little kelp
have you tried not speccing into double incarn
little kelp
(That was actually considered.)
drifting nova
https://tenor.com/view/drake-computer-notebook-explaning-gif-21152267
why think big when small think do work
vital hound
drifting nova
https://tenor.com/dkiZPZEcC2J.gif
listen I'm already a top 20% gamer
cant be that many rungs
meager storm
well it may have been WAs then but i remember removing it somehow before without them 
fiery harness
make ur friend pay it
they are going to release a new season in august anyway right
little kelp
well it may have been WAs then but i remember removing it somehow before without...
I'd take a WA as a solution to removing the charge swipe, but not as a replacement for tracking Incarn!
meager storm
true weakauras are some chinese spying code used to get info from us 
some guy said that on a pug once
what a night
little kelp
little did he know it was elvui with the backdoor 
meager storm
they are going to release a new season in august anyway right
no idea, but ye its really close
little kelp
stay noided or w/e
meager storm
elvirus
little kelp
Anyway, the reason I'm not using a WA for Incarn is cuz I'm using elvui hexagon bars
pseudo merlin
ewwwlvui
drifting nova
they are going to release a new season in august anyway right
august 2026 ye
lunar viper
Hello, is there something I can check to see if my AoE is up to par? Quick sim appears to only show single target.
pseudo merlin
You shouldn't be comparing yourself to sims anyway
But there's way more than just a quick sim, and plenty of settings to adjust fight type, target count etc
lunar viper
Well I'm trying to figure out if I'm good enough yet to push to +10s or if I need to fix something first. Gear, rotation, etc
quiet drift
Best bet is to go and try to push the +10
lunar viper
I can't get invited to them. 39 declines in a row 🙂
pseudo merlin
You can do 10s now
lunar viper
Been doing that. I have to go guardian to get applications lol
I don't mind guardian but I want to go balance
pseudo merlin
Ok one that's not true
quiet drift
I came back like 2months ago
quiet drift
had my 10s fill up fast
lunar viper
ok
pseudo merlin
Late season new player M+ pugging sucks balls, there's no way around that.
lunar viper
Yeah I'm fairly new, started playing in April
pseudo merlin
You can suffer through it by doing your own key, or instead spend that time looking for people to play with
I'd recommend the latter
delicate perch
Late season new player M+ pugging sucks balls, there's no way around that.
Late season new player M+ pugging sucks balls, there's no way around that.
pseudo merlin
real
M+ pugging is only decent if you start playing max 3 and a half minutes after season launch
and never log out
delicate perch
3 and a half minutes? You’re already doomed people are 35% of the way through their first +2
pseudo merlin
delicate perch
You’ll log in to “200 score + only” groups 
delicate perch
lunar viper
Maybe you can tell me if my numbers are okay? 2.03m single target combat dummy for 5 min, 4.5m AoE dummy for 5 min, ~8m 30 second AoE burst?
I don't see in key logs what people of my ilvl should be pulling usually
pseudo merlin
So hard to say anything about these numbers
Make sure you've read the compendium
Stick to the basics
potent cargo
dmg is based on ur ability as well as others ability to do dmg + cds + pulls etc
pseudo merlin
MF/SUF targets that live long enough, always be casting
maiden pasture
numbers and dummy shit like this isnt a good measure
a log of keys or raid will help see rotational issues
a sim wil help see gear issues
potent cargo
so i wouldnt get to precious
about aoe dmg
if you're following compendium/outline of what u r meant to do
then ur doin it right
only thing to addon is cd timing/usage
lunar viper
I'm just trying to push +10s without being dead weight
vital hound
You’ll log in to “200 score + only” groups <:KEKWHands:710909617353523211>
"ptr players only"
maiden pasture
10s are also not a great key level for moonkins if you're playing with geared people
pseudo merlin
"ptr players only"
LMAO
"I'll invite you to discord, show picture proof of PTR rating, voice mandatory"
nah 10s are fine now
I've d one like 30 this week
They're filled with people who have no gear or no hands and are doing less than half your dmg
Everyone else is in 12s+
lunar viper
Ok thanks guys I appreciate it
delicate perch
"ptr players only"
delicate perch
I've d one like 30 this week
Log off right now
dense steeple
I've d one like 30 this week
are you okay
digital berry
30 keys in a week I think i'd rather touch some grass
vagrant cove
I was running a lot of keys but I cant gain anything from them until after reset now
Need some sort of warforge/titanforge system back in the game for some further incentive. Something where its like a low chance (somewhere in the 1%-3% range i guess) for gear to upgrade by 1 track when it drops. Maybe it can be unlocked as you outgrow the use of certain crests or something idk
I just want something so I can be like "yeah running keys now would be beneficial"
digital berry
The m+ system as it stands is just a dick size contest past the first couple of weeks
delicate perch
Need some sort of warforge/titanforge system back in the game for some further i...
do NOT listen to this user @ blizzard
cloud plover
I want Benthic gear gambling to come back, but with chance of either 1 or 2 sockets, so that you have more incentive to spend more time grinding to get that juicy 2-socketed correct variation of the item you need
cloud plover
hitting the right variation of your item & 2 sockets & the tertiary u want would feel so good
delicate perch
dusk spear
Has anyone solo'ed 8 mask? Did you use sori?
dry compass
8 hour maintenence wtf
so much for "they put the stuff in early and just haven't flipped the switch yet"
digital berry
8 hours maint is criminal
feral dust
@vagrant cove to be fair a system that lets you upgrade your gear to the next track using a big amount of crests etc should be put in the game.
It will incentivise doing more content.
Also valorstones should be removed.
delicate perch
8 hour maintenence wtf
8 hours to put in a zap belt 
vagrant cove
do NOT listen to this user @ blizzard
Right, lets just make it so keys have no purpose after you do them for a week or two, thats clearly the better option
digital berry
Right, lets just make it so keys have no purpose after you do them for a week or...
Your system is the opposite problem
I don’t wanna HAVE TO do 30 keys a week
quiet drift
Has anyone solo'ed 8 mask? Did you use sori?
Full solo
vagrant cove
Then dont? At a rate that low you're still rarely getting any track upgrades and when you do its got a high chance being on a piece that isn't your bis
Having a tiny incentive is better than having none?
quiet drift
Just pull around incarn/trees
vagrant cove
<@154320425545891850> to be fair a system that lets you upgrade your gear to the...
Yeah even something like this would be good too
digital berry
Having a tiny incentive is better than having none?
The incentive is IO
delicate perch
Right, lets just make it so keys have no purpose after you do them for a week or...
what ilvl is your character for you to be so done with gearing while complaining
vagrant cove
what ilvl is your character for you to be so done with gearing while complaining
I am in no way done with gearing, i said that I cant get anything outside of crests from keystones
delicate perch
so... use the crests?
vagrant cove
I have done that lol
I cannot upgrade my hero gear any futher all my hero gear is maxed, I havent been able to craft this week because its been broken and prior to it being broken I have crafted almost every piece now
In the span of 2-3 weeks
delicate perch
so congrats I guess? you've maxed out a fresh character for the week
vagrant cove
Holy shit this is why I said I wanted an incentive to run keys????
Because now my only option is wait for reset
And im bored
delicate perch
buy a mythic boost
vagrant cove
Lol yeah sweet thanks mate
delicate perch
vagrant cove
"I dont want to run keys, so you should buy a boost" sick lmfao
delicate perch
idk what you expect to happen
blizz killed off titanforging I doubt and hope it never returns
vagrant cove
THANKYOU
delicate perch
Bring back titanforging so you can proc myth track in m+
ptsd of someone getting mythic ilvl moonglaive trinket in lfr 
vagrant cove
The problem with titanforging was that you had to get a titanforged piece for it to be your best in slot, and then it had like 4 different levels of titanforged so if you low balled it then you just had a worse piece
delicate perch
if blizz ever did that they'd gatekeep it behind 15s or some shit
vagrant cove
This system literally just gives you a piece from a track higher, if it procs thats it you've gotten it from a track higher
dry compass
if you dont have enough crests stockpiled to max out every slot, then you still have an incentive to run keys
delicate perch
well now I want megamyth track gear to drop from my vault/mythic raid
dry compass
mmm yes I love never being able to bring alts to raid cause I have to 0.2% roll on my titanforged piece every week
very fun
delicate perch
yep too bad
dry compass
its fuckin okay to hit the end of the gear escalator lads
go outside, play another game, go play through some old storylines you never did
quiet drift
its fuckin okay to hit the end of the gear escalator lads
Just preference innit
dry compass
you're not gonna turn into a pumpkin cause you didn't grind for a day
vagrant cove
So having a low chance to potentially get a higher track piece to drop is not okay, but having to wait a week to get 1 piece of myth track from your vault is completely fine
quiet drift
I do think that procced true bis items are dumb
dry compass
yes because the vault piece is guranteed track and are obtainable in other ways
quiet drift
But i want some infinite grind
vagrant cove
But i want some infinite grind
Nah man, just read the replies in here people do not want to play the game
delicate perch
ones a degen grind the other is just an improved version of a shit old system
vagrant cove
They want things to be guaranteed so they can log out 80% of the week
vagrant cove
its fuckin okay to hit the end of the gear escalator lads
He literally did
He said its okay to hit the end of gear escalator, and to go do something else
delicate perch
you can't read I fear
quiet drift
I think some just want a clear finish line w their chatacter
dry compass
hitting the end of the gear escalator =! cant play the game
quiet drift
Some dont
vagrant cove
Literally said "Go play another game, go outside"
quiet drift
Preference
delicate perch
finish gearing =/= things guaranteed
vital hound
But i want some infinite grind
bring back ap
quiet drift
bring back ap
Faaaax
dry compass
see you in..... never.
quiet drift
My soul yearns for a ap sweep...
delicate perch
bring back ap
vital hound
ap went hard
because the fucking losers (us) could grind forever for the minimal funny number gain
quiet drift
Nyalotha ap went hard
vital hound
but it didnt actually matter
vital hound
whoops missed a WQ sweep
didnt realise you were a redditor
delete alts
people get one character
pick a fucking toon you noobs
delicate perch
that'd be so based
vagrant cove
ping me when you have everything
tf are you even saying
how does collecting everything relate to wanting a rare chance to have gear upgrade
vital hound
@delicate perch i love how mental boom NA m+ers are
dry compass
you're saying you have no reason to play the game because you have no gear upgrade available to you
vital hound
one wipe keys done fuck you
vagrant cove
NO
dry compass
I'm telling you theres about 50,000 reasons to play the game
vagrant cove
I did not say that at all
dry compass
that you're ignoring
vagrant cove
I said i ahve no reason to do keys
delicate perch
I highly doubt your gear is stopping you from doing w/e content you want
delicate perch
I said i ahve no reason to do keys
what would you do after you rng lucked myth track full gear?
dry compass
if the only reason you do keys is for crests/gear drops then it's same same
delicate perch
one wipe **keys done fuck you**
quiet drift
but it didnt actually matter
I think i had like 2-3% higher sim dps over a guildie who was a raidlogger
vagrant cove
what would you do after you rng lucked myth track full gear?
lol goodluck with that one
delicate perch
that is not an answer
dry compass
one wipe **keys done fuck you**
man stone vault last season
delicate perch
are you american?
quiet drift
But visions of perfection rng was so vile that shit did not matter
dry compass
the number of keys that's first pull wipe and key's over was absurd
vital hound
I think i had like 2-3% higher sim dps over a guildie who was a raidlogger
2-3 is skill diff for most noobs as well
delicate perch
what was the original argument
they upgraded all hero track/crafted gear and want titanforging so they have a reason to do keys
vital hound
so dont matter
vital hound
they upgraded all hero track/crafted gear and want titanforging so they have a r...
lol
in todays episode of mythic+ player wants raid loot
we have titanforging
delicate perch
vital hound
can you imagine running 100 cinderbrews for the neck
vagrant cove
that is not an answer
It literally is, do you realise how many keys that would require... I said 1% as just a random idea chance of it happening
On average 1% is a 1 in 100 chance, you'd have to do somewhere in the 1600 keys range minimum assuming you rolled every piece of bis gear when it procced and didn't get duplicates or pieces you didnt need. When was the last time you did 1600 keys in a season lmfao
delicate perch
yeah
vital hound
just for it to go to the brazilian pug with a champ track neck
vagrant cove
And thats just for keystone gear, doesnt even include raid
dry compass
lets just bring back withered jim while we're at it
vital hound
lets just bring back withered jim while we're at it
withered jim
vagrant cove
Raid which is weekly locked, and loot shared between 20 odd people
delicate perch
lets just bring back withered jim while we're at it
I still have my socketed crystal in bank 
dry compass
but arcanocrystal drops on veteran track with 0.00001% to titanforge to myth track
vagrant cove
and when that finally happened
If that for some stupid reason even happened, my answer is im upgrading all of it to max and then io pushing
delicate perch
to... gain io?
vagrant cove
Like do you realise the difference between pushing at 671 vs pushing at 684
delicate perch
rarely?
vital hound
what key level
delicate perch
you out here bricking 10s?
dry compass
Like do you realise the difference between pushing at 671 vs pushing at 684
show me your io right now and I'll show you someone with 1 key level higher in every key on the same class at 671
vital hound
delicate perch
vagrant cove
sorry KSL
vital hound
pre sure
dry compass
you can do ksh in 650 if you really wanted to lmao
vital hound
like the number 4 ranked team or something last season
vagrant cove
Again we have walked right away from what I originally said
vital hound
were all in heroic gear
vagrant cove
you can do ksh in 650 if you really wanted to lmao
I never ever said that you cannot do that
I never said you cant push in hero gear
dry compass
you got a real circular argument going on here mate
vagrant cove
I really do not, you guys are just nit picking random things said and trying to make a point out of it
vital hound
which blizzard has tried telling people for a hot minute now
vagrant cove
All I wanted was a little bit of incentive to run some keys this week before reset
calm ibex
Vault is incentive
vital hound
then push io
calm ibex
Cool that’s your incentive
dry compass
if you WANT to do keys and you WANT to push for IO then why bother waiting until you're in bis gear
calm ibex
Go to bed you win the game
vital hound
if you WANT to do keys and you WANT to push for IO then why bother waiting until...
at this point
go play TR
dry compass
saying there's no point pushing IO because it'll be easier later is just a self-defeatist argument
quiet drift
dry compass
its entirely a self-constructed roadblock
vital hound
saying there's no point pushing IO because it'll be easier later is just a self-...
if you have a team there is a balance to this tho tbf
lots of people wait until .5/.7 so they dont burnout
but not for this fellas reasons
dry compass
yeah but those people at slamming 15s for funsies
and waiting to do their +20s until bis
dry compass
that's not quite the same thing as rolling around in 10s so your end-of-season 14s are as easy as possible
dry compass
tertiforging
vagrant cove
Alrighty boys new strat, push your io at 670 because even though you're probably doing much less damage and struggling to survive more than your 682 future self, you're being self defeatist if you don't push at 670
Just sit in bear form when the damage comes out and get your io up
dry compass
dry compass
how do you think you learn routes and what's dangerous at high key levels?
spoiler: you do lower keys at lower ilevel
vagrant cove
If youre 670 pushing io, you're probably able to get like 15s-16s sure
dry compass
lower keys aren't some meaningless box to check
they are literally practice runs for your high keys
and if you wait until you massivley over gear it and faceroll everything while learning nothing
now you just have to run the 17 20 more times to learn all the lessons you skipped
because you overgeared the content
vital hound
also isnt the idea of pushing idea
to have fun
doesnt matter if the key is 15/18/20
if its hard beacuse of your gear
its fun
no?
dry compass
different types of fun but truefax
slammin keys with the boys vs sweaty push session
different vibe both fun
vital hound
also seemingly bro enjoys mythic+ because his funny number is bigger than others
not because he enjoys the game mode
vagrant cove
You lot just make a million assumptions
vital hound
titanforgin dont solve that
cause your point lookin like swiss cheese bud
we gotta assume
vagrant cove
Do you know what my original point was sheep lol, i literally just suggested that there was a 1% (or something similar) chance that once gear drops at the end of a dungeon it has a chance to go up by 1 track
vagrant cove
That was the only point i made to start with, and then I got attacked from all angles after that point about not being good enough to push and not needing gear to push and needing to collect all the things in the game?
vital hound
yea
checks out
titanforging exists for a while
it was bad and hated
they removed it
vagrant cove
Titanforging, wasnt the same thing
quiet drift
Going up 1 track would not be same as tf
vagrant cove
Ikr lmfao
When things titanforged, it had like 4 different levels of titanforging so even if you got something to titanforge it could be a low balled titanforge and you'd need another one
dry compass
Going up 1 track would not be same as tf
it is quite literally later iterations of titanforging with the added restriction that myth track gear is ineligible
vagrant cove
However, when things track upgrade, its literally just like getting a vault piece from an end of dungeon
dry compass
and you already have a means to acquire myth track gear from endless M+ by crafting
so idk
quiet drift
Not tier, trinkets and -3 ilvl
vagrant cove
and you *already* have a means to acquire myth track gear from endless M+ by cra...
This is kind of true, its like 70% true
vital hound
Not tier, trinkets and -3 ilvl
good
mythic+ is significantly easier
myth track gear acquisition should be hard
quiet drift
And saying how proccing myth track would be bad
When its legit vault w/o weekly restriction
vagrant cove
myth track gear acquisition should be hard
Confused, because one of you just said you can already acquire myth track gear from crafting and thats apparently fine
dry compass
you wouldn't be able to proc tier or most good trinkets from tf M+ loot either cause that shit only drops from raid
vagrant cove
But now you're saying it should be hard
vital hound
i never said that its fine to craft
vagrant cove
I didnt say you did either
vital hound
crafted gear shouldnt exist imo/should be dogshit
vagrant cove
I said "one of you just said"
quiet drift
you wouldn't be able to proc tier or most good trinkets from tf M+ loot either c...
This was abt m+ since was on topic of it having character power incentive was hero
But i would not care if mythic raiders pugged heroic for a chance upgrade
feral dust
Just a suggestion but would it be that bad to be able to use 90 gilded to transform one piece of heroic gear into mythic track?
vagrant cove
Need some sort of warforge/titanforge system back in the game for some further i...
I didnt even limit to M+ everybody else did
vital hound
Just a suggestion but would it be that bad to be able to use 90 gilded to transf...
ya
feral dust
Why?
vital hound
because then you could get full myth gear by playing delves
gear should be an indicator of skill/progression
the slow shift to everyone getting access to being 684 end of season is poos
quiet drift
The game is seasonal
You cant deny that
So everyone hitting bis end of patch truly should be whatever
feral dust
Not wrong but at least in the begging of the season crests are capped. And still more skilled players will be able to get mythic gear faster. So it's a tradeoff: either more skill or more grind. I think it's very good
quiet drift
Raid is complete hello kitty mode compared to what it was months ago
dry compass
that's fine
vagrant cove
Even if they made it so gear can only upgrade if you outgrow the crests of that track
That'd be fine too
dry compass
nerf the content into the ground, make it way more accessible for everyone
but get people into the content
quiet drift
But ye saying gear as indicator of skill/progression some dude who killed Mugzee last week and dinared the trinket
Vs some guy who killed it week 3
dusk spear
I feel like many of us play this game to have fun. Is it fun beating your head against the wall for nights on end?
quiet drift
I feel like many of us play this game to have fun. Is it fun beating your head ...
For some it is
feral dust
Gear is not only an indicator of skill but also a means to an end( more gear let's you do harder content). Also as @dusk spear said a game is supposed to be fun and reward you for the time you spend/ invest in it. It wouldn't hurt anyone and especially more skilled players if someone is able to have full mythic bis gear by the end of the tier, by spending more time grinding. The top players would already have their bis gear earlier and the rest will be incentivised to spend more time in the game grinding easier content if they want to do so.
dusk spear
I realize some people's fun is that they are denying others their prestige.
vagrant cove
I just simply want more ways to gear through keys throughout the week
I dont even care what system they added to make that happen I just simply suggested one and got my head bitten off for it
dusk spear
I personally feel M+ is way too sweaty for what it is.
dusk spear
It is very intimidating for even lower level content of what the pug community expects
vagrant cove
I personally feel M+ is way too sweaty for what it is.
I understand people enjoy the challenge of trying to coordinate with 4 other people around their stops, interrupts etc. I personally would prefer it to just be overall much simpler but I am pretty contempt keeping keys the way they are as well
unborn sage
when tank pulls funnel into boss, like CM first boss, should i starfall or just dot every add and starsurge boss?
quiet drift
when tank pulls funnel into boss, like CM first boss, should i starfall or just ...
Starsurge
You get extra Ap via sotf
If the adds are living longer than a phase lasts you could Fall
feral dust
I understand people enjoy the challenge of trying to coordinate with 4 other peo...
In a similar vein I think that people are too afraid to admit what you just said in case they are branded noobs etc. I agree with you that the game is too hard for what it is ( provided that the goal of the game is for more people to engage with more content).
unborn sage
ty cotti
dusk spear
I think it would be interesting to see a scenario when you hit 100% mob count, everything goes immune
unborn sage
eye of kezan hero is worth vs hoc hero?
dusk spear
a lot of this stuff is so around invitational pathing
vagrant cove
In a similar vein I think that people are too afraid to admit what you just said...
Yeah like I very much enjoy the idea of joining a key with 4 of your mates and just walking into a key and blitzing it. If im failing a key I want it to be because we didn't do enough damage or had too many deaths, not because we missed an interrupt 3 bosses in or something haha
quiet drift
eye of kezan hero is worth vs hoc hero?
Eye requires pathing around it so wouldnt use it in pugs
vagrant cove
But I know that the vast majority of people who have an opinion on keys will say that without the extra stuff like interrupts, CC, all that fun shenanigans keys will become bland. And I think I agree as well I think just walking into a key and not having to worry much about stops probably would make them get boring faster
I just enjoy the idea of dps racing against 2 other people more than sacrificing my damage to stop us wiping
vagrant cove
eye of kezan hero is worth vs hoc hero?
i would sim it, but im pretty sure sim wise eye of kezan is much worse than house of cards
feral dust
But I know that the vast majority of people who have an opinion on keys will say...
Not necessarily. The most extreme example I can think of it that in m+ you can make everything until a +10 100% throughout dependent with no interiors and suddenly in + 11 introduce an affix where if you don't interrupt you wipe.
vagrant cove
Speaking of gear actually, have you guys felt like gear has been more meaningful this season than it has in the past?
I feel like the difference between 660 and 670 has been astronomical
feral dust
Feeling the gear difference currently in Delves with an alt. At 660 you face roll some things and at 645 you get installed with no cds by the same things.
vagrant cove
Feeling the gear difference currently in Delves with an alt. At 660 you face ro...
Yeah I actually really enjoy it, makes gearing feel so rewarding honestly
Im not sure if its somethings changed or if ive just not noticed it in the past before because ive always been an rsham or gdruid
formal marsh
Feeling the gear difference currently in Delves with an alt. At 660 you face ro...
Being installed is the best feeling in the world
vagrant cove
Being installed is the best feeling in the world
lmfao
feral dust
I agree. I meant insta killed but autocorrect trolled me
pallid bay
@civic junco
i think you've misunderstood "video guilds" or whoever you mean is using it, there's no video when these guys kill the bosses
the assumed definition in the video means that only the first guild to reach a boss is the only one that is not a video guild 
lucid olive
video guild is whoever killed the boss after dratnos 2 hour long guide video
delicate perch
even first guild wipes at least once to the last boss
pallid bay
banhammer for sure not
delicate perch
maybe they also watched back a clip
round field
what am i reading
pseudo merlin
are you okay
I am not
slender dragon
hey guys i'm doing this macro /Cast [@party1] Innervate , but i've some problems, the healer is always bottom on my group hud but party 1 don't work if the healer is not group leader
why does group leader impact the party number ?
delicate perch
did you press it 
pseudo merlin
hey guys i'm doing this macro /Cast [@party1] Innervate , but i've some problems...
Add party 1-5
pseudo merlin
did you press it <a:KEKWDISCO:833879363949953064>
I mean clearly
it's very obvious when you deplete your ASP with 2 casts right
you can't go from 100 to 0 by subtracting 36 twice
pseudo merlin
Needless to say I double checked my SF keybind
So yeah I did
In addition to like me using it to max range things as a range indicator
So what the fuck happened lmao
scenic mist
why do you have that many starsurge ?
delicate perch
wholesome boss damage doer 
scenic mist
are you in single target ?
pseudo merlin
slender dragon
Add party 1-5
wdym ? its not working this typo
scenic mist
i cant think of any overall where you'd expect to see SF AND starsurge being in front of starfire
delicate perch
ya I think it just bugged out
pseudo merlin
and ignoring the whole run
delicate perch
like how you hitting 31 times overall with starfire
pseudo merlin
wdym ? its not working this typo
replicate the line for 1 through 5 individually
slender dragon
do you guys know if there a weak aura or something (apparently not omnicd) for my priest that show when i bear form?
delicate perch
they can track it as a buff on you with some addon/weakaura surely
sudden flame
hey guys i'm doing this macro /Cast [@party1] Innervate , but i've some problems...
you can litterally do
/cast [@party1] innervate
/cast [@party2] innervate
/cast [@party3] innervate
/cast [@party4] innervate
/cast [@party5] innervate
and it will always cast on the healer in keys
doesn't work in raid
scenic mist
you can litterally do
/cast [@party1] innervate
/cast [@party2] innervate
/cast ...
/cast [@party1][@party2][@party3][@party4][@party5] innervate
would work too, right ? seems smoother
scenic mist
yes i fear the party1 failing and not having more conditions would prevent the macro from going further
pallid bay
where as multiple /cast are treated individually
pseudo merlin
last boss rook. French ret paladin ignores the pillar right next to him, literally right next to him, and spawns mob, it kills everyone but the last dps who manages to kill the boss right before he dies and we wipe, french ret paladin says "yw for carrying your ass" and leaves
you can't make this up
scenic mist
last boss rook. French ret paladin ignores the pillar right next to him, literal...
what server ?
must be Archimonde
pseudo merlin
what server ?
france
scenic mist
i swear
pseudo merlin
who cares, is there a difference
pseudo merlin
wait
scenic mist
who cares, is there a difference
ofc there is
pseudo merlin
scenic mist
we are allowed to have stereotypes even inside french community
upbeat aspen
Hey guys! Whats the best way to sim for m+? 1t 5 mins? or 5 t 5 mins?
scenic mist
tbf Hyjal is the 10th biggest EU server, so you'd find a lot of animals there
statistically
pseudo merlin
youre not a french appologist are you
scenic mist
youre not a french appologist are you
i believe in salted butter yes
blame me for that
scenic mist
Hey guys! Whats the best way to sim for m+? 1t 5 mins? or 5 t 5 mins?
between these 2, 1t5m is better
royal zenith
Ravec-TarrenMill needs to cool down the ego
pseudo merlin
atleast until I have higher rio
sudden flame
boosted boomies 
pseudo merlin
dont
jade flume
Boomie is a ranged spec which hautomatically makes it high iq spec
pseudo merlin
^
sudden flame
scenic mist
Boomie is a ranged spec which hautomatically makes it high iq spec
BM is a ranged spec which hautomatically makes it high iq spec
yeah, this doesnt work
jade flume
Bm is melee with long range
pseudo merlin
^
quiet drift
Can feel my brain becoming more wrinkly with each eclipse entered
jade flume
Hinokami kagura 🔥
royal zenith
Can feel my brain becoming more wrinkly with each eclipse entered
I have the same reading this chat
:3
pseudo merlin
you know wrinkly is good right?
just making sure you didnt accidentally compliment us
pseudo merlin
I'm feeling mid august
quiet drift
I actually heard some
scenic mist
I really want 11.2 news
the fact that we still had no ptr testing is insane
quiet drift
Its gonna have new raid
royal zenith
pseudo merlin
thats crazy
quiet drift
And different dungeon pool
pseudo merlin
no way
royal zenith
boomie rework into greatness?
scenic mist
boomie rework into greatness?
tettles said so
pseudo merlin
What are the top things you want changed for boomie ?
scenic mist
-eclipse
-survivability
-friction
quiet drift
Nerf fillers and remove eclipses
pseudo merlin
-eclipse
-survivability
-friction
I can give you some friction
could you elaborate on eclipse
elaborate on friction too
scenic mist
could you elaborate on eclipse
wdym
scenic mist
elaborate on friction too
wdym
craggy sonnet
no wdym
pseudo merlin
are you french? wdym
I love salted butter too btw, anyone who doesn't is sus as fuck
pseudo merlin
I swear a freshly made baguette with salted butter IS a meal
quiet drift
1800s diet
scenic mist
-eclipse
-survivability
-friction
-remove
-add more
-remove
scenic mist
ofc
but i can tell you what i dont like, it's not my job to find remplacements
i could
but i didnt
quiet drift
The amount of buttons is fine
pseudo merlin
what kind of friction are we talking? last cast of eclipse being the eclipe trigger spell and how starlord functions or ?
scenic mist
what kind of friction are we talking? last cast of eclipse being the eclipe trig...
regen fren
dash
pseudo merlin
convoke targetting?
quiet drift
Just have more decision making
scenic mist
you don't want dash to shift you into cat?
i mean
i'd like it not too, but if it still does i'd like to keep the ms when shifting back
pseudo merlin
right yeah that makes sense
craggy sonnet
at least roar stays
scenic mist
they changed innervate, god bless
craggy sonnet
but yea .. i mean fluid form fixes a lot of that
pseudo merlin
I'm a true druid player so I'm fine with being in a different form, it's cool flavor, as long as the tradeof is worth it
But I agree to some extent
craggy sonnet
but its just a bit of a silly workaround i guess
pseudo merlin
fluid form is definitely cool
scenic mist
fluid form is definitely cool
but
pseudo merlin
but yeah they need to fix the spell queue thing
scenic mist
put the talent in the 1st section not the last
craggy sonnet
nothing is anything
pseudo merlin
yeah for sure
craggy sonnet
fair
still
wont get a lot of meaningful stuff in the class capstones
and it doesnt matter
scenic mist
guys our capstones are the weakest in EXISTENCE
craggy sonnet
cuz it wont define your spec power
scenic mist
on both druid and boomkin tree
scenic mist
How long have you played boomie?
since ToT
pseudo merlin
ah ok
scenic mist
pendulum eclipse
craggy sonnet
eclipses could be better idk .. feel like the bar was better even maybe? but honestly cant even remember
scenic mist
just remove this shit i beg
pseudo merlin
Here's my hot take
I really liked SL PTR eclipse
SS extended it I think
You could have a minute of eclipse
craggy sonnet
also starlord should be independent stacks, no?
quiet drift
Holy
craggy sonnet
ironfur treatment
scenic mist
give back SL starfall
pseudo merlin
If you were turbo pumping you'd sit in a minute+ of eclipse
what, SD?
SL starfall was fucking dog
non stackable starfall aint it
quiet drift
+1
quiet drift
Not spending AP in aoe
pseudo merlin
aint no way you want non stackable SF
signal temple
pushing eclipse
I pressed eclipse and 4 weirdos showed up and there's a strange tattoo on the back of my neck now
pseudo merlin
pseudo merlin
Not spending AP in aoe
on large pulls you just sat there spamming SS till SF came back
super insane gameplay
😂
signal temple
https://tenor.com/view/mundo-league-league-of-legends-business-gif-21789454
My friend has this weird red rock
pseudo merlin
I hated nothing more than BFA
IT was literally whack-a-molekin
sometimes with certain RNG you couldnt even get rid of your wrath/stf procs
they'd just never stop coming
literally whackamole
wind smelt
Does Haste increase the number of spells cast during Convoke the Spirits?
quiet drift
No
maiden pasture
Bring back rotating eclipses
scenic mist
Bring back rotating eclipses
cant wait to be stuck in solar during the big 20 target pull
quiet drift
Huge mushroom damage
ornate quest
Hi, just started learning balance and was reading the opener on dreamgrove website and was wondering how does the aoe opener look like?
scenic mist
Hi, just started learning balance and was reading the opener on dreamgrove websi...
dot everything, FoE, incarn, starfire x2, WoE, starfire x1000
press starfall everytime you will cap ASP
ornate quest
dot everything, FoE, incarn, starfire x2, WoE, starfire x1000
right, and from there i'd just want to maintain dot, press cd when up and make sure to starfire when possible?
scenic mist
right, and from there i'd just want to maintain dot, press cd when up and make s...
dot will maintain themselves through aetheral kindling talent
other than that, yes
just wait to drop eclipse to resend incarn when in combat, to get 2 nature's grace charges in the incarn
ornate quest
oh ok, and this is playing with elune hero talent yea?
scenic mist
yes
i mean, on aoe the KotG rotation would look similar, i just dont know if it plays FoE (and it surely doesnt play WoE so you'd send trees before incarn)
ornate quest
i mean, on aoe the KotG rotation would look similar, i just dont know if it play...
Ok, also this may sound dumb but with eclipse, I always want to go lunar whenever im in aoe situation right? and to get it i'd have to wrath two times. Do i get into another lunar eclipse by using wrath 2x again once the first lunar window is finish?
scenic mist
Ok, also this may sound dumb but with eclipse, I always want to go lunar wheneve...
if you wanna keep being in lunar, yes ofc
btw, EC hero talent when specced into "lunar calling" doesnt even leave you a choice as you cant enter solar eclipse anymore
ornate quest
if you wanna keep being in lunar, yes ofc
btw, EC hero talent when specced into ...
Gotcha, so you always wanna keep lunar eclipse running unless you want to resend incarn ?
scenic mist
Gotcha, so you always wanna keep lunar eclipse running unless you want to resend...
yeah
the key to moonkin is always being in eclipse
because you only get value from your mastery that way, and mastery is kinda like 80% of your stats
pallid bay
like cant be just press 2 buttons
it already is..
pallid bay
Just have more decision making
real
olive cloak
I know it'll be contingent on lots of things, but how good is our 4 set? wondering if I should burn a charge on Champ stuff
olive cloak
Thank you very much, Ash
I'll have 4 charges left after this then. Accidentally did shoulders twice. Should see me well into next week. 🙂
craggy sonnet
it already is..
not disagreeing.. but taking even more "complexity" away without something else to play around
royal zenith
Just have more decision making
first sane thing someone said
instead of "more engaging gameplay"
jade flume
Gameplays good
crisp scaffold
Anyone got the belt ? 😄
jade flume
Have you been naughty?
pseudo merlin
instead of "more engaging gameplay"
I want more engaging gameplay
fervent merlin
Are we gonna be able to sim the one button macro or did blizz hide that info
eager raft
Anyone got the belt ? 😄
Yeah
royal zenith
I want more engaging gameplay
You’re not sane tho
pseudo merlin
whats 658+18 @drifting nova
pseudo merlin
thats what you want?
yes
pseudo merlin
thx
scenic mist
Are we gonna be able to sim the one button macro or did blizz hide that info
what's the point tho
pseudo merlin
Imagine you start using one button as a bit
But suddenly all your nuimbers go higher
💀
scenic mist
this is when i end my sub
pseudo merlin
A lot of people gonne get a reality check
"lmao 1 button what a meme feature"
parses go up
scenic mist
"i want more decision making"
proceeds to use the one button rotation
pseudo merlin
I cant wait to play weekly keys with a controller on the couch
drifting nova
20% less now
but 20% more tomorrow
when all your free damage addons get splattered
scenic mist
when all your free damage addons get splattered
tbf, if they remove WA without making the cd tracker way way way way WAY better, it's also the end of my sub
drifting nova
prepare to unsub
scenic mist
prepare to unsub
truth be told, i switched my yearly sub to a monthly one this last month
no trust anymore
pseudo merlin
tbf, if they remove WA without making the cd tracker way way way way WAY better,...
same
game is unplayable without spec WA pack
pseudo merlin
Thanks 🙂
cedar seal
I have my Embellishment on my Waist atm - only other crafted item is neck and weapon (main embellishment slot) - neck i cant get the second embell. Craft a Wrist for that when waist becomes available?
pseudo merlin
cloak and wrist
cedar seal
Which would require a 684 weapon which i dont have 😉
civic junco
i think you've misunderstood "video guilds" or whoever you mean is using it, the...
I was, admittedly, swayed by Max’s definition of Video Guild - which he recently defined as basically every guild that’s not Liquid or Echo. I think the numbers show that isn’t completely true, and I did not focus on it because it gets… weedy. I wanted to stay more focussed on who improved, how they did it, and what we might be able to take away for our own play.
muted sleet
pseudo merlin
I think it's a loss compared to optimised normal belt
pallid bay
I was, admittedly, swayed by Max’s definition of Video Guild - which he recently...
understandable, counterpoint though, dont listen to max
pseudo merlin
Which would require a 684 weapon which i dont have 😉
I'm not following
How would that require a 684 weap
vagrant cove
How would that require a 684 weap
Ngl i am also wondering
pseudo merlin
The answer to your question is that you have two options: cloak and wrist
cedar seal
But where is the point to craft two items when i already have the weapon?!
pseudo merlin
What?
cedar seal
and i have a cloak on 684
pseudo merlin
IS this like a language barrier thing
vagrant cove
I am so lost?
pallid bay
regardless of that i think "video guild" is clearly used in a demeaning way, there's no reason to make up a name for all guilds but liquid, max is also too clueless about anything outside his WF perspective
pseudo merlin
Two options means you can pick 1 thing out of two things
I really don't know how to make it any more clear
Your embel slots are weapon, cloak, wrist, belt
You're using weapon
Belt is going away
The two options you are left with are wrist and cloak
So you decide out of those two, which one works better for you
That's an option you have
You can do one out of two things
lucid olive
Ravec is saying those are the embel slots because they are the lowest stat budget slots and since crafted items are baseline 3 ilvl less you should always be crafting in those slots
vagrant cove
and i have a cloak on 684
Look going by this comment, your best option is your wrist
vagrant cove
Agreed
royal zenith
I can make it happen...
pseudo merlin
You hold no power here whitey
royal zenith
I have the power of social constructs
pseudo merlin
Construct DN
royal zenith
:)
rich jewel
regardless of that i think "video guild" is clearly used in a demeaning way, the...
Bet they check their own ptr videos 
pseudo merlin
But these results don't align with bloodmallet
royal zenith
so you would bait yourself if you'd actually grab it
rich jewel
Do not use
pseudo merlin
I'm guessing it's not the kind of trinket that can get passively cleaved by STF or SF
cedar seal
IS this like a language barrier thing
yeah it was. sounded to me like you meant the only option was to combine cloak and wirst. understood as i know that wrist and cloak are the two budget item slots. dont ban him mods 😄