swift mango
Hi! I'm glad to share my Paladin overhaul. It decouples Smites from spell slots using a new class resource and includes all classic 5e Oaths reimagined.
Homebrewery: https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/yXOOtB5JZVLx
PDF: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-R9vUAguegI5smY1sCcI18Q_VHrodEj-/view?usp=drive_link
Art is AI-generated (Grok & Stable Diffusion).
blissful siren
thisisinteresting
pastel sluice
My biggest complaint is that the first three levels of the class take up like, three pages. The sub-mechanic of alignments is cool but for resolve specifically, you can double the amount of healing or temporary hit points you gain simply by spending 1 point at a time. So instead of having +5 hp per level you're giving +10, which is likely going to be double your hp count at 3rd level (So you're looking at +30 hp at 3rd level.)
I'm sure there's also a really seamless way of shortening the feature together between Lay on Hands, Word of Valor and Soul Bastion. You've also got like 11 fighting styles on this list and that's probably too many.
Divine Smite using resolve is a massive buff to the class. This now makes each point of resolve represent 10 healing or 9 damage (2d8 average, or 16 damage against archenemies. Then you've slapped on channel divinities also, which is thematically flawed, as Paladins in DnD are not extensions of Gods (Though they may worship or believe in them, especially those that represent their ideals). Paladins get their power simply through the belief and strength of their oath. And as a Paladin gains more levels in being a Paladin, they've proven to the world that their oath builds in strength. It's also why your alignment idea is so important, but to see channel divinities also used makes me a little dissapointed.
Willful Recovery and Extra Attack being at the same level is too much power. Extra attack doubles the martial capability of the class, and therefore should really be its own stand-alone level in following with DnD design. Giving resource recovery at that level is a lot of power to give a class that already has a ton of tools.
The soul bastion upgrade is very powerful. It increases the power level of Soul Bastion by 50%, and also needs some rewording. "DR" is not standard for rules lingo.
Indomitable Resistance being able to cancel a 9th level spell for 2 charges is ridiculous.
Indomitable resistance also steps on the fighters toes
I didn't look at any of the subclasses because I normally heavily focus on the main class first
But the biggest issue that I can see is feature bloat, a lot of stuff needs to be cut in order for this to fit "traditional" DnD balancing standards
swift mango
My biggest complaint is that the first three levels of the class take up like, t...
Thank you very much for your attention. I accept some of the complaints without objection, but in some places I will play as apologist for my own homebrew. (Yet if these parts require clarification, it means there's room for improvement anyway.)
Keeping "Channel Divinity" almost intact is a nod to ensuring that multiclassing with a Cleric still works as it did before. Furthermore, within the ability's wording, you can see that (albeit crudely) it's tied to harnessing the powers of the divine nature through one's own convictions, so its not that much a narrative flaw as it might seem.
Indominable Resistance - for two resolve charges, but only once between rests. The homage to the fighter ability's name is deliberate due to the similarity in mechanics. This ability replaces the familiar Cleansing Touch (though changing a reactive ability to a proactive one may indeed overpower the class).
Regarding the ten healing points at a time and the doubled effectiveness due to the healing being spread out over time, you're right. Yes, that was the intention. This is partly the price for the inability to use "yo-yo healing" gameplay.
The wording regarding DR does indeed deviate from generally accepted norms—but this is a case where I find the norms odd, not the mechanics. DND uses damage reduction mechanics in practice (such as the heavy armor master feat or "Order of Application" rule - pg.28 of dnd 2024 ruleset), but for some reason the wording itself is shadowbanned.
glacial socket
I really like the concept
"Lay on Hands" doesn't quite work with "Resolve" just from a naming perspective - Resolve sounds more like it wants a self-healing thing, similar to a more RPG-style paladin. Or, even a pool of d6s (1/lv) that you can spend as damage reduction (up to Cha Mod) for yourself as a reaction
Also, since LoH, WoV & SB are all options for Resolve, you wouldn't use four #, you'd either use six or forgo the # and just italicize (which will require you to trim down the descriptions) to make it fit the page better
I was also planning a Paladin rewrite after finishing Bard, and this is actually giving me a big inspo
swift mango
I really like the concept
"Lay on Hands" doesn't quite work with "Resolve" just ...
Thank you!
For the first-level resolve features, I used the same approach as for the combat styles - like in the vanilla dnd 5e playbook
But you're right, especially given the volume of information, I should look at the 2024 rules with their "bold and italic" approach.
As for names? It's probably a matter of preference. In my mind, a knight whose resolve "converts" into divine magic and heals an ally is quite a viable concept.
Glad I was able to inspire you! If ya send me a link, I'd also like to read your bard homebrew
glacial socket
So, you're keeping them as a divine character (besides just the spellcasting lists)?
swift mango
It's a matter of the very understanding of "divinity," I believe. I believe the divine nature of abilities and spells can exist without being tied to service to deities. Divine sorcerer subclass is an example. But I agree that this is a philosophical and debatable question.
A paladin objectively performs magic in some way. But it's not arcane. You could say I see them as "a sorcerer of divine magic," as opposed to a "wizard"-cleric.
If a bard can transform music and emotion into arcane magic, and a barbarian can channel their rage into all sorts of... things (hello, wild magic or storm herald barbarian), then why can't a paladin, through sheer force of determination, "force their way" to the pool of divine magic? These are my thoughts.
glacial socket
It's because Divinity is derived from faith in d&d
I do like the groundwork though
swift mango
Yep, I do agree with you. And I still see a paladin as the man of faith. Though his faith is faith in his own convictions.
pastel sluice
There is a very clear distinction between a man of faith in himself or a man of faith that draws power from divine beings. A cleric is sort of like a conduit from a much higher power, and Warlocks are granted powers by their pacts though that's not necessarily the same thing.
Paladins really do lie on the strength of their own convictions. And I don't think a divine being would grant a Paladin power simply because their beliefs align
I do think things need to be cut for many reasons, and divine channeling is the most obvious suggestion from my point of view
swift mango
I do think things need to be cut for many reasons, and divine channeling is the ...
So, this is your opinion regardless of the rework - but about paladins as such, including the official rules?
swift mango
There is a very clear distinction between a man of faith in himself or a man of ...
As already mentioned, this is a philosophical question. My opinion on this matter can be summarized as follows. If we look at magic as a cylinder, then arcane magic is a circle, and divine magic is a rectangle. And a paladin simply knows how to see this rectangle on their own, without the help of a "sugar daddy." Just as sorcerers and wizards learn to "see a circle" in different ways (some are gifted naturally, others have trained for years).
pastel sluice
Yes that is my opinion of the Paladin, though I'm fairly certain '24 pushed for more of the divine angle
The biggest thing is that you take some shears as Tarumbar calls it
And snip some things up
I'm also working on a half-caster at the moment and it has 6 features from 1st to 3rd levels (Including the subclass) and I'm working on tightening it up even more, likely it will sit at 5 (Since you can't really remove like, fighting styles, spellcasting or the subclass features)
You might be able to get away with combining Divine Smite and Resolve into one feature, but then you'd definitely have to cut down on the whole LoH dispersion
swift mango
Yes that is my opinion of the Paladin, though I'm fairly certain '24 pushed for ...
Actually, the 2024 PHB says: "Whether sworn before a god’s altar, in a sacred glade before nature spirits, or in a moment of desperation and grief with the dead as the only witnesses, a Paladin’s oath is a powerful bond. It is a source of power that turns a devout warrior into a blessed champion."
So Wizards themselves are driftin towards "divinity, but not deity"
pastel sluice
I think it's meant to represent an oath you swear in the place where the unseen can witness it
Doesn't necessarily mean it's a divine oath
An oracle of a prophecy would count as a witness, within those examples
Even outside the context of the contextual identity of a Paladin- your class has too much stuff early on lmao
swift mango
I think it's meant to represent an oath you swear in the place where the unseen ...
Well, I see its more like geas (not a spell, but a stuff from Celtic legends) or "pact with reality" - kind of a bond to Creation itself
swift mango
Even outside the context of the contextual identity of a Paladin- your class has...
Maybe. Yet on practice it has the same 1) heal (or thp, right), 2) smite, 3) spells stuff - just like the official. Though I agree that I provide too many low-level choices, which makes the class risk being too difficult, especially for a beginner.
pastel sluice
The '24 Paladin has
Mind you, this is still a lot of features. It might actually be the limit, but I don't know that for fact, just a speculative statement.
Your Paladin
That is 50% more features, from a mathematical perspective. And for all intents and purposes the Resolve features (Both resolve itself and Divine Smite) are tri-optional features.
There's just a lot going on
glacial socket
I think it's meant to represent an oath you swear in the place where the unseen ...
It's because D&D doesn't emphasize the oath itself, but rather the source of their oath
Like, a Paladin as an individual is approaching apotheosis, with the Oath as the center of their personal Domain. It's why (narratively) they don't get a lv20 feature simply from being a Paladin
But in 5e especially, it just kinda comes off as "you're a Warlock that didn't sell their soul," which is a shame XD
swift mango
The '24 Paladin has
- Lay on hands
- Spellcasting (Many choice feature)
- WM
- ...
If it's just a matter of information overload, then I don't deny it at all. In the introduction, I stated that the class was inspired by the original paladin. The implication was that it was primarily for those, like me, who want to try the class from a different perspective, tired of the original version. So, it's not for a D&D newbie. However, could I have included a disclaimer? 🤔 Yeah, I probably could. It certainly wouldn't hurt.
However, if you're implying that information overload means excessive power growth, then, with all due respect, you, colleague, are being disingenuous ;D
And I wouldn't base the rework on D&D 2024. I appreciate the effort people put in, but some decisions feel like "the hatred of ten thousand years of game design," as my friends and I say among ourselves. I'm old-fashioned, and I primarily reworked the vanilla D&D 5e paladin. (Although I could be criticized for inconsistency here: after all, with my willful recovery at level 5, I replaced the "knight's move" introduced by the 2024 designers.)
Comparing the features for the first three levels, we get:
Three abilities, two of which share a resource? Same.
5e: healing point pool; slots for spells or smites
homebrew: healing or smiting point pool; spell slots
Yes, I offer a choice of three healing options - but the player still only gets access to one (and must remember only that one), unless they later decide to change their character's alignment or personality and voluntarily reflect this through an ability change.
Smites = smites
Spells = spells
Fighting Style = Fighting Style (yep, I've just listed all official with some minor reworks. But they're still all from 5e (PHB, Xanatar, Tasha))
Battle maneuvers in homebrew? They’re listed as an option for tables playing under the 2024 rules.
Divine Health from 5e? My version doesn't even have it.
Channel Divinity (setting aside your complaint, which applies to any paladin):
In terms of usage, I've really upped it to the 2024 level.
In terms of options, it's unchanged from 5e: there, one option was provided by the class, and two came from the archetype. In my case, it's the other way around. But the sum doesn't change when the terms are reversed.
The narrative about the oath and its violation? It remains narrative. The archenemy image does connect the narrative with the mechanics, but by itself, as a "point," it doesn't have any mechanical weight in the power of the class's abilities.
Divine Sense in 5e = Oathbound Pursuit in homebrew. And yes, "archenemy" is indeed important here, but precisely as a connecting link. As a "keyword" or creature type instead of abstract undead and fiends.
P. S.: I agree with some of your complaints (levels 5, 10 and 14). These things require playtesting and will likely be the first to be reworked if they prove to be overpowered.