#Spike's Runesmith, a half-caster with an unique type of spell list

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chilly ore
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19, along with every level that is a multiple of 4, is that one level where you don't add anything

dreamy anchor
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You don't need an arithmetic sequence necessarily

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In fact, the 11-15-19 sequence would mean it never increases at the same level as the base feature, which is neat. Or 11-15-18 to avoid the ASI/Boon at 19

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For that matter, you should probably clarify what happens at the end of a long rest, just in case. Or even put it in the same table?

chilly ore
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One thing i find funny is that i tried to make the core class split between caster and martial

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Part of it is because i had Storm Giants in mind, which are kinda more casters than the other 5

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But ironically, one of the attacks that literally every Storm Giant has is called "Lightning Sword"

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And that is not a hyperbole, i mean it

Every. Single. One.

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-# 2025 Monster Manual changed the name of the attack to "Storm Blade", but it's still the same attack

chilly ore
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@dreamy anchor

I think it was you who wanted a 3rd option for Ancient Order, right?

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I'm considered renaming "Scribe" to "Seeker", and instead of proficiency in History and Arcana, you gain Expertise instead

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And the lv 5 feature adds your Int Modifier to cantrips or weapon attacks (maybe a little too strong)

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That way, Knight stays as the "full martial" option and Seeker becomes the caster/utility (and roguish) option

shrewd rock
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Oh speaking of, you mentioned you wanted to detach the two orders so you can mix and match with the later level, but really thats just gonna make heavy armor so much better than skills I think. Idk if you went ahead with it

chilly ore
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I didn't, they're still tied together

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Also, if anyone could check the Attunement Effects of the runes and see if they're more or less balanced, i'd be glad expression

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The ones i'm concerned about:

  • Hill, Storm, Blood, Dragon, Life, War, Wind (Ovepowered)
  • Journey, Light (Underpowered)
dreamy anchor
chilly ore
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You can gain a Fighting Style at level 2, no matter your choice at level 1

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But yeah, that makes sense

dreamy anchor
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oh right, nevermind that one. But still

chilly ore
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I just didn't want to make it too similar to Sneak Attack

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But idk, i could always make it so that you also add your Int to the attack roll (for weapons only)

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Not completely replacing Dex or Str

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So it's still a little strong since either way you're increasing your damage, but to compensate for that you only have 1 attack

dreamy anchor
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Nah, bonuses to attack are problematic. Lemme think

chilly ore
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Then i could replace it completely moradin

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I mean, it's level 5, other subclasses do it at 3 (Battle Smith, Armorer, UA Bladesinger), so i don't think that's broken

Bladelock is an exception and we do not talk about it

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Or i could do it like Cleric and Druid where instead of Extra Attack, they get extra damage on their single weapon attack

dreamy anchor
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My original idea was:
Runic Staff: When you take the Attack action and attack using a Simple weapon, you can cast a cantrip as part of the same action

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But it'd be neat if the third option wasn't just Caster v2 or Weapons v2

chilly ore
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I don't think i'll add a 3rd option tbh lol

dreamy anchor
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So maybe something like Int attacks plus some utility at 1, and then at 5 it's +Int to damage of both attacks and cantrips plus some more utility. That way you could choose, and attacks would stay viable

chilly ore
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I realized later that my class' Runes are similar to the Mystic's Disciplines

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They have a passive effect that is always on and you have to take a BA to change (Attunement Effect/Psychic Focus) and they have lists of spells you learn

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Or in Mystic's case, spell-like effects

dreamy anchor
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Hm, true. But is that bad? Mystic is pretty cool

chilly ore
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It's overly complex

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But i think that's because it tried to include too many mechanics at a time

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It's like, 40 disciplines, each one with around 3-4 pseudo-spells, i think some also have 5

chilly ore
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I'll finish this class (sometime in the future) but once i do, i'll probably make a 2nd version more similar to what i initially had in mind, which was inspired by the Rune Scribe UA

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I fear that it will be similar to the Mystic, but i believe i can do it moradin

shrewd rock
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You should just scrap this and do it now

chilly ore
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I already have the document XD

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But since i've already put so much work in this version, i'll finish it first

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I actually like how it's going

shrewd rock
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partially like, if this class isnt exactly what you had in mind, why keep pushin it

chilly ore
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Because it's still cool

shrewd rock
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ah well theres that, if you do like it then sure by all means

chilly ore
# chilly ore I realized later that my class' Runes are similar to the Mystic's Disciplines

Also:

The Mystic was able to change the Discipline it was focusing in with a Bonus Action, but no cost

Would it be too broken if i made it like:

  • At level 1, you can swap your attuned Rune as a Bonus Action
  • At level 3, you're always attuned to your subclass' Rune, and you can't swap out of it
  • At level 15, you get extra damage on the spells from the list of the Rune(s) you're attuned to, but you're still locked to 1 (+ subclass) attunement at a time

?

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I kinda dislike the idea of being able to swap Adv on a specific skill check to + 1 AC or Adv on saves against a specific condition at will, just using a Bonus Action

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But tbf, Rune Knight gets like 5 at a time, and the runes that give Adv on skill checks give 2 at a time painsmile

slender totem
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so i think keeping going is good, since the direction of this class is super cool imo

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Like my class also swapped directons pretty signifigantly but, i think, to a more interesting place

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gave rise to some features id have never thought of otherwise

shrewd rock
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I dont mind direction changes, but ive always usually had a solid foundation of exactly what I want and usually just refined to a better version. At least with the two classes ive made

slender totem
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That's true, but also I think from what i've seen of Witch you tend to come at things from a more thematic poitn and then find cool abilities that go with it

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which is why witch is absolutely dripping with awesome witch-feel

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whereas at least I (and I think spike also) kinda have cool mechanical ideas that need a good lore/feel raison d'etre

shrewd rock
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Dancer has always been about additional actions, witch is always been about familiars

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So I usually just end up refining how its executed, rather than changing the concept

slender totem
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It's not criticism to be clear, just moreso a musing on the different thought processes ive seen so far on the forum

shrewd rock
shrewd rock
chilly ore
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Ok, so i was thinking:

Instead of adding extra damage like Divine Smite, what if Imbued Strike make it so that you can expend inscribed spells to add a modifier to a single attack roll equal to 2 × the combined levels of the spells?

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I know it sounds a little broken, but Cleric can add +10 to a hit at like, level 3, which matches the 5th "combined spell level" you get at level 17

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The only problem would be the 3rd level slot you get on a Short Rest at the same level

But tbh, you should be using them to cast spells in the first place

dreamy anchor
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Eh, dunno. It doesn't feel like a good "secondary" usage, I feel? It should be something that you can use almost whenever, when you decide the spell won't be useful

chilly ore
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Yeah, that's kinda why i dislike this option too

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It's more reactive than proactive

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I could just leave the THP, but leaving only a defensive option feels weird to me

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I think i'll just leave the way it is painsmile

chilly ore
# shrewd rock ~~You should just scrap this and do it now~~

I don't think it is the right time to make a new forum post for this 2nd version yet, especially considering i have nothing ready

But have you ever ready the Rune Scribe UA? Or at least checked the magic items from Storm King's Thunder?

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If so, how would you make a class based on them?

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I'm afraid that the class ends up feeling like Arcane Archer or Battle Master, where instead of new features, you just get more options

dreamy anchor
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Well, for those subclasses those options are the features. And honestly, doesn't every fullcaster do basically that?

chilly ore
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They get new level of spells though

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Instead of "you get to choose your 22nd level 1 spell"

dreamy anchor
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just make Maneuvers of different levels Flourish

chilly ore
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Tbh, that's technically what Warlock does too

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But just like you said, some "maneuvers" (Invocations) are locked by level

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I'm considering something like

  • You know the Simple Properties of all your 6 Runes
  • You know the Complex Properties of 3 of your Runes
  • You know the Mastery Property (just created this) of only 1 Rune you know
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And they unlock at different levels

dreamy anchor
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sounds cool at first glance

shrewd rock
chilly ore
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That's basically it tbh

shrewd rock
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tho again feels kinda like rune knight but class, but thats how the RK felt because thats how the runes were

chilly ore
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I'll probably just add the "attunement" effect from the Runes, like the ones that affect your equipment, to the subclasses rather than the runes themselves

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This way, you still feel like a "smith" rather than just a rune magic user

chilly ore
shrewd rock
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thats also true

chilly ore
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I actually dislike the part where it becomes a giant and i'd rather have it be exclusive to Giant Barbarian

shrewd rock
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I mean it came first haha

chilly ore
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And i'm pretty sure there must be a Giant-less Rune Knight homebrew out there lol

chilly ore
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Giant Soul Sorcerer would be cool if it became official

shrewd rock
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RK was in Tasha's, Giant Barb was in BGG

chilly ore
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One thing i can't really affirm but that may be the case is that rune magic in 5e is very different than other editions

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Giantcraft, for example, had stuff like Rune of Binding, All-Seeing Eye of Annam, Rune of Love, stuff like that

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The first appearance of the 5e runes (War, Fire, Life, Mountain, etc) that i noticed is 5e

chilly ore
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Math is funny

No matter the formula i try to choose, the known spells progression is always irregular

shrewd rock
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The one you showed me before was pretty good it seems

chilly ore
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I managed to find a way where you learn new spells every odd level besides 19

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And it's actually very satisfying

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Although this is the progression

The number in the parenthesis is how many spells you learned since the last time

shrewd rock
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I think thats what you showed before? Idk hahaha

chilly ore
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Almost the same

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Although i just noticed a pattern:

From level 1 to 5 you learn 4 spells
From 5 to 9 you learn 6
From 9 to to 13 you learn 8
From 13 to 17 you learn 10

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Math is beautiful omg

chilly ore
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I'm very satisfied with the current state of the class, and i don't think i'll change any of the existing features

The only one i'm still a bit concerned about is the capstone because i don't really know what to do with it, so i wanted opinions on the current one

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So the only things missing right now are the level 6 and 10 features

And i have no idea of what to put in there

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I'll start developing the subclasses, maybe that will help me think about new features for the main class

And at the very end, i'll finish the spell list of each rune

echo scroll
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perhaps some kind of Super Attunement effect for the rune that you're currently attuned to as part of the capstone?

cinder trellis
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For Runic Ward at 11th level, how long do the temporary hit points last?

chilly ore
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Don't most spells or features that give you THP just ignore the duration so it is until the next Long Rest (i think) by default?

echo scroll
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features like Adrenaline Rush ignore duration and reset on a Long Rest, yes

chilly ore
echo scroll
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and considering this is expending the runes you carve into your equipment (which is already quite the limited number) i feel like it's fine if no duration is given

chilly ore
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One of my concerns is the Runic Ward + Armor of Agathys interaction

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But if you're expending all your 5 total spell levels on THP, might as well inscribe a level 5 False Life or AoA itself lol

cinder trellis
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My suggestions for the Stone Rune:
C: Resistance
1st: Shield
2nd: Arcane Vigor
3rd: Meld Into Stone
4th: Stoneskin
5th: Wall of Stone

Stone Giants are associated with just being durable as hell, with the Stone Giant option for Goliaths giving them their classic Stone's Endurance feature.

chilly ore
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The problem is the Shield Rune itself painsmile

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Although i could make it similar to what i did to Blood Rune and Life Rune

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Blood - Self-Healing
Life - Healing others

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So:
Stone - Self-Protection
Shield - Protecting others

cinder trellis
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Goddammit, my bad.

chilly ore
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Dw, i actually like this suggestion

cinder trellis
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So switch out shield and Arcane Vigor and we're good?

chilly ore
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Shield is fine, i think

I'll probably add Shield of Faith to the Shield Rune since it can be used on other creatures

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Arcane Vigor is part of the Blood Rune, so i'll add another spell

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And Resistance is Dragon Rune since you know, defending yourself against Dragons

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It's funny how the Dragon Rune is actually about how Giants and Dragons are enemies but the spell from Rune Shaper is Chromatic Orb, the generic "dragon" spell (Draconic Sorcerer also learns it)

cinder trellis
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My suggestions for the Storm Rune:
C: Shocking Grasp
1st: Witchbolt
2nd: Shatter
3rd: Lightning Bolt
4th: Control Water
5th: Scrying

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Any chance for Cyclops, Formorian, or Troll runes?

chilly ore
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I think it would be hard making runes for them since runes are more about concepts than creatures

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But maybe i could make them for fun once everything is finished

cinder trellis
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Ah, fair enough.

chilly ore
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Cyclops - Modify Memory

"Nobody blinded me!"

cinder trellis
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Cyclops' are actually associated pretty heavily with divination in 2024, even getting access to Legend Lore. I almost didn't want to add Scrying to the Storm Rune List but the Storm Giant Storm Caller had it in Bigby's and I couldn't find a better fitting 5th level spell.

chilly ore
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Storm Giants are really about divination too

cinder trellis
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I like this class, finally a full intelligence half caster. I know we have Artificer but they're kind of their own thing.

chilly ore
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I like the Artificer but i think it's too niche

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When i think of an "Arcane" half-caster, i think of something like a Spellblade, similar to an Eldritch Knight

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Not magical Tony Stark

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I mean, my class also has a very niche theme due to the runes, but at least it's not official XD

chilly ore
cinder trellis
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How rigid of a format were you thinking of for your subclasses, like on a scale from Paladin to Fighter?

chilly ore
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Wdym, like the Paladin having a very clear format for subclass features (CD option, Aura upgrade, BA stance) vs Fighter where subclass features don't really have a pattern?

cinder trellis
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Yes.

chilly ore
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I'd say probably a middle ground

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I don't know how i'll make the subclass yet besides:

  • You get your subclass rune for free
  • You're always attuned to your subclass rune
  • This "extra passives" thing, like a Attunement Effect Plus
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Also, the names might be a little silly for now

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The general themes i have for the first two:

  • Cloud - Nimble and stealthy, imagine an Arcane Trickster, might have some mind control, might not
  • Fire - Budget Artificer, improves your equipment (like Ornn from LoL)
cinder trellis
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Going into this I thought each rune was based strictly on the types of giants and when I saw the subclasses I just thought "oh, you trained with/under/studied these guys" and if you you pick a rune that doesn't align with your subclass it was just you having some knowledge of their magic.

cinder trellis
chilly ore
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One thing i was thinking:

Since right now, you can change your attuned rune with a single BA without any costs, the capstone* feels kind dumb, since you're probably not casting more than 1 spell per turn

So i was thinking about either:

  • Limiting (again) how many times you can change your attuned rune
  • Making it a ritual of 1 minute so you can't do it mid-battle, so you have to prepare

-# *It makes you attuned to all your runes for 10 minutes

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Or i could always make it like Rune Knight where you just know the passives of all your known runes tbh

cinder trellis
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I'd go with the latter, I imagine it's a rather tedious process so making it one minute makes more sense.

chilly ore
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One of my original ideas was that you could also change your attuned rune by expending a level 3+ slot (no action) or cast a level 3+ spell of the rune you want to change to

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I think the first option might be better, since at least you have more freedom

cinder trellis
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Hmm, fair.

chilly ore
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1 minute is already very quick tbh, but who cares hmm

chilly ore
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I decided to be less generous and kept Carved Aspect only be changeable on a SR or expending a lv 3+ slot

Rn, i'm considering making it give Advantage on spell attack rolls and increase the DC of your spells by 1, just like Innate Sorcery

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That way, it's useful for both combat encounters and non-combat too, like if you need to create an illusion or charm someone

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But the problem is:

  • It steps on Sorcerer's toes a little due to Innate Sorcery being a thing
  • You're always attuned to your subclass rune, so having permanent Advantage and +1 to DC for 5 spells + 1 cantrip seems a lot, not including the other, changeable attuned rune, so it's actually double that
  • The capstone would be straight up just Innate Sorcery
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The easiest solution i can think of is to obviously make it limited, like you can only empower a spell in this way Int Mod or 2 times that per LR

But it only solves 1/3 of the problems

chilly ore
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@shrewd rock

Let's say i give each rune a fitting damage type (like Necrotic for Death Rune) and allow the player to, at level 6 or 10, as part of a Short Rest, imbue a weapon or a shield/piece of armor, being able to deal extra damage/get Resistance to that type

Would it be too broken?

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My main inspiration for this are the Storm King's Thunder runes

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Although i'm considering making this part of the subclasses instead

shrewd rock
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thats fine

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just balance the numbers and youd be pretty good

chilly ore
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Probably some damage types would be repeated, like Necrotic for Blood and Death

Or i could add other effects, like idk, lifesteal on a weapon imbued with the Blood Rune

shrewd rock
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sounds like cleric 8th ahaha I think theyve repeated damage types

chilly ore
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But then i'm worried that this might make things:

  • complicated
  • unbalanced
shrewd rock
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I always have at least 2 with the "simpler" effect and then 1 or 2 with a more complicated (but similarly balanced) effect

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for witch for example, Cat and Raven got a simple conditional transform at 11th. Faerie instead got polymorph + extra forms for it, while Ooze simply learned to split (which is its way of multiplying its damage)

chilly ore
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Got it

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I'll take a look at your Witch class later, sounds fun

shrewd rock
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theres no harm with a purely simple effect for all though, but cleric's divine strikes was a little too simple, it basically was a glorified class feature lol

chilly ore
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@shrewd rock sorry for pinging again:

I made an Offensive and a Defensive option for most runes, it's in the document, right below "Other Runes"

I'm kinda "ehhh" towards those, but i still wanted to know your opinion if possible

chilly ore
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Pinging @dreamy anchor and @slender totem too

dreamy anchor
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Well, affecting equipment is more flavorful, but Artificer already kinda does that...

chilly ore
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2014 did

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2024 now creates them instead

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So it's not really the same

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What used to be Infusions in 2014 are now magic items, so it's not that exclusive anymore

You could probably find them in a dungeon if the DM wants to

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2024 Artificer is more about crafting than upgrading equipment

dreamy anchor
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huh. I really need to read the new classes...

shrewd rock
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Thats not final yet right? I really hate that Arti just makes items now

chilly ore
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But i don't think it's gonna be that different on release

shrewd rock
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Im kinda hoping they go back to infusions really

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And its still possible theyll do another UA or go back

chilly ore
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I mean, it was supposed to be relased on August iirc, but it was delayed due to printing problems

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So i don't think it's gonna change

shrewd rock
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That sucks

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Another reason not to move to 24 I guess

chilly ore
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It appeared in both the Artificer and the Eberron UA and it was almost the same thing

chilly ore
chilly ore
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Anyways, i still wanted to know your opinions 🥲

shrewd rock
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I still way prefer Arti infusions so I still see them as Arti's niche, though im not necessarily against pseudo infusions in other subs, for a full class it steps on that

chilly ore
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Got it

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It was kinda inspired by the Storm King's Thunder runes, where you have 2 choices of items to enchant

slender totem
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artificer is about more than just enchanted items (though that is a major part of their fantasy)

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i think the same could be true for you

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plus it brings in a bit more gishiness, which i think may be desirable at this juncture

shrewd rock
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Artificer is only slightly more than enchanted items I think, even its subclasses are specially made enchanted items

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Arti is like 70% enchanted items, 10% potions (and mostly just for alch), 10% tools and 10% guns

echo scroll
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if they had expanded on improving infusions to work on already magical items to some degree, that would have probably made artificer a solid support class (albeit perhaps on the stronger side)

shrewd rock
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Since most numerical bonuses are on attunement items, I wouldve gone with "can add to magical items that don't require attunement. That item now requires attunement"

chilly ore
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And the Infusions

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But tbf, i'm not really a fan of adding this feature anyways

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It would be ok if it was just damage types, but some of the runes don't have damage types that fit, so i had to improvise effects for a lot of them

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Some of them are small things (adding a mastery on top of another), but some are game changing

Examples:

  • Cloud Rune makes attacked creatures not able to take Opportunity Attacks against you
  • Shield Rune makes attacked creatures have Disadvantage when attacking creatures other than you
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So yeah, not really as small as i wanted it to be

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Maybe it could work on a martial, but this is a half-caster, so you'd have those on top of spells XD

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I'll just add those as subclasses features instead

dreamy anchor
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You can also just decide to tread on Artificer because it sucks lol

chilly ore
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Wdym

dreamy anchor
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Artificer is already an "optional" class, whatever the exact status. I think you can just make features that are similar to it and it'll be alright

chilly ore
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Spellcarving is already very similar to Spell-Storing Item for example

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If i do add a feature like this, it will be for the other version of the class (if i do continue it)

chilly ore
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Decided to remove Carved Aspect 🫡

chilly ore
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Ok, we have a problem:

Both Paladin's and Ranger's spells are either utility or something that takes a BA to activate

Due to how the Runesmith works, with 20 different spell lists, it's hard to choose thematic spells that will blend the martial side and the caster side perfectly, compared to something like Divine Smite or Hunter's Mark

dreamy anchor
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that's why gishes generally include some kind of ability to do that

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Well, I think you're not making a gish, so maybe it's not so important for you?

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Also I don't think Hunter's Mark is such a perfect blend either

chilly ore
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Even then, the other spells for damage are (usually) also Bonus Actions, like Hail of Thorns

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The ones that aren't, like Entangle or Pass Without Trace, are more for control or utility than damage

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There are damage spells that are actions, like Conjure Barrage, but it's not all of them

dreamy anchor
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Well, dunno really. I don't think you have to care about this, but if you do... Well, I guess you need to squeeze in a feature for Bonus Action casting? Weren't you trying to do that with the Vancian aspect?

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I care about this really much, but that's because I'm explicitly making a very gishy gish

chilly ore
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My main idea was to allow the inscribed spells be cast as a Bonus Action

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But then, everyone would probably fill them with combat spells, so at level 17, you'd either have 5 weak ones or 1 really powerful one

dreamy anchor
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Well, yes?

chilly ore
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And then you'd have your whole half-caster spells which are kinda there

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The main problem isn't the fact the spells are an Action or a Bonus Action

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It's the fact most Paladin's and Ranger's spells are either:

1 - Utility
2 - A enhacement to the martial side*
3 - A concentration spell that you take an Action to cast and it lasts for 1 minute at least (Grasping Vine, for example)

-# *Magic Weapon, Elemental Weapon, Swift Quiver

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So they're more like martials that can cast spells

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The Runesmith rn looks more like a caster* that can make weapon attacks

-# *Especifically a blaster one

dreamy anchor
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Well, I guess that's because the flavor is centered about a specific method of casting, while Paladin and Ranger are martial-first flavorwise

chilly ore
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Exactly

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One solution would be to create new spells like Tamms said a while ago, but even if i do so for half of the them, that would be 50 new spells

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Or do something that allows BA casting moradin

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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U29-XL3tif-M8ZRPLQXCgvUmVHHzF5jVAF9LcDXdGsk/edit?usp=sharing

Anyways, i've been working on this version too if you wanna take a look

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It's in an even more unfinished state

dreamy anchor
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As if I wasn't already mixing up all the versions

chilly ore
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LOL

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There's only 2

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The actual half-caster one and this one that is like "caster but not really"

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I'm still thinking if i should make it use spell slots or another resource

dreamy anchor
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Also #1411827721033613332

chilly ore
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Nah, it would be less like "spell points" and more like Monk's Focus Points or Sorcerer's Sorcery Points

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1 point per level, recharges on a SR/LR (not decided yet)

chilly ore
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A rune scribe masters the secrets of the runes of power – ancient sigils that embody the fundamental magic of creation. Rune magic is exceedingly rare: some of its secrets have been lost, and what lore remains is jealously guarded. Few rune scribes share their lore with others. Indeed, most rune scribes take on new students only if doing so allows them to gain access to a forgotten or missing rune.

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@echo scroll

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That's the flavor text for the UA Rune Scribe