The Puppeteer - Class - By TatsuDragunov

[tall sentinel]

Hi brewers i made this class based in a old class i saw many years ago as well many variations of it i found with the years, this class is focused in create puppets either by making it with wood or iron or with corpses of creatures you have created, and control them, i would like some feedback regarding it's balance and wording:
https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-NqsLt-ZbYyx66yidQxz

[compact mortar]

immediately love this, this feels like morbid pokemon where im trying to find random bodies of weird creatures so i can jot down notes of how to replicate their abilities

i also like that they're a half caster, feels very in tune with stuff like artificer while still being its own thing

my only point of contention is that it feels a bit limiting lore wise of how you create puppets, seeing that its a percentile roll if you're using metal or wood, but its a flat success if you're using a corpse

immediately makes me feel like i need to make whoevers playing this class a mad scientist or insane corpse defiler

but besides that, i like the spell list, even if it leans a bit heavy into damage and not so much into utility

i feel like adding a couple situational spells would be nice, but if you want this class to feel more like their role is combative in nature then i think that that works perfectly

overall, big fan, this feels really cool

[tall sentinel]

the percentile is if you are using a corpse, but a flat success if you are using wood or iron

[tall sentinel]

yep, the class is more combat aligned

[compact mortar]

oops lol

in that case i absolutely love that

[tall sentinel]

the corpse puppet make this, when you create it you can retain 1 ability of the creature you used to created

[compact mortar]

yeah i feel this would be a good way to make a "summoner" in dnd, considering most builds where people try to do that are just... playing wizard or druid

[tall sentinel]

yep, one of my friends said to me in the begging "why don't make a artificer sub instead?" and i said "because i thing there are something more then a artificer here"

[tall sentinel]

thanks

[compact mortar]

artificers are great! but they need to be grounded with the reality of magic, having them being these cold hard physics professors attempting to use their intelect to fling a metal ball fast enough to launch someones ribcage out of their body

this feels like its sort of... outside the normal bounds of magic

like its breaking a couple rules

and that feels really good for the class

[tall sentinel]

yep

[tall sentinel]

yes, puppeteers have their own type of magic, they need to study, they need to craft, use alchemy and such, and of course there are many things "wrong" with their magic, like dissecate bodies and reanimated them but not like necromancy, but as objects, this "dark/edgy" theme in them is something cool in my opinion

[nova saffron]

Alright, just finished reading all of that ^^
I love the concept but the layout and formating makes it really hard to read ^^" Especially for the puppet maker feature.
In your quickbuild you mention intelligence but the spellcasting ability is charisma ?

I would also accentuate the difference between the corpse, iron and wood puppet. They feel a bit too similar for me and for the object puppet, maybe give it some abilites if you use a finesse weapon or a tool ?
Also, what happens to monsters with spellcasting abilities ? I don't think I saw it addressed ?
For the damage, I would advise against using proficiency bonus for damage. Maybe charisma or intelligence modifier but proficiency bonus doesn't scale the same way.

And finally, set appart the corpse, wood, object and iron puppet from the ones gained by the subclasses. It's a pain to look them up when they are your base puppets.

@tall sentinel

[tall sentinel]

1st thanks

the layout? what do you mean by this? because i tried to follow D&D layout as close as possible.

yeah puppet maker is such a big wall text, i tried to reduce but i couldn't

2nd yeah it should be, i think i will read it all again, maybe i have missed more things

corpse is a creature reanimated under your control it retain 1 of the attacks of the creature you used, wood and iron are the basica generic puppets, so if you lost all your corpse puppets you basically can use them until you find something better, also iron is slightly beetter than wood

the idea wasn't for the object to be that useful, but i can certainly try make it better so it's also a viable choice

because the monster loses it, so if you reanimate a monster with spellcasting you just can't use it because isn't a attack

cha and int can hit the max out put since the very early levels but prof scales up to the end and reflects better you expertise as the class, also it reaches a higher value then int or cha

why do you think so?

[nova saffron]

It's not about reducing necessarilly it's about rearranging. Spacing.
Maybe put information like a little list ?

Also, what are the journal requirement you mention ?

[tall sentinel]

i think this is part of the old text from the necromancer's journal to puppetcrafting

[nova saffron]

Where is the spellcasting thing adressed ?

For the profiency bonus thing I still believe it should be Int or Cha exactly because of the reasons you mentionned and because it put it more in line with the way weapons attack works in dnd.

I think it's a pain that you put the puppets stat block by aphabetical order rather than putting them by "accessibility" order, first the base puppets, then the one gained with the subclass in the order you gain them. I think that would make it a lot easier.

[tall sentinel]

spellcasting is not an attack by rules, so it don't need to be addressed

well, the spells in the game and any other feature that is listed like warlock invocations also are in alphabetical order, so i'm just following it, even if i agree with you that they should be put by "accessibility" order

[nova saffron]

It kinda does, because you don't say that only attacks and action are maintained, you say that it lose it's original creature type, damage immunity or resistance and that it can only attack a number of time equal to yours.

Your class is great really, but we really do get confused on the wording a lot. (you yourself it seems)
Try to categorise it all :

• First the condition for the puppet making (time, materials etc etc)
• Then object puppets specificities
• Wood puppet specificities and mention that iron is not available yet but will be at a level detailled at the end of the feature
• Finally the corpse puppet with the specifities of it's making
• Then how the corpse puppet differ from the original creature
• How the feature evolve over time

For now everything is a bit mixed up