Just to let you know, many people dont download files from strangers online, so a link may be more apt. A gdrive link or a homebrewery link would be good, or a screenshot is fine too
#Oath of the Manticore
mint hare
mint hare
Oh... hmmm
So first you probably need to format this more like how 5e does
Second are you just putting the subclass up for review or... everything here?
Because youll want to clarify what is and is not part of the subclass
And whats just available to all Pallys
And lastly, the tenets are fine but they overlap very strongly with other oaths, so maybe try to make a list that doesnt overlap. Its not a dealbreaker, but other than Embrace Poison the tenets dont really give me a sense of why the Pally is using venoms
(Especially considering the main enemies/forces of darkness are fiends which are resistant or immune to poison)
mint hare
Mmm idk what kind of idea youre going for specifically, so just take it with a grain of salt
Poison is usually a subtle killer, something assassins use to leave no tracks. You could angle for a "leave no trace, your deeds are not remembered" thing, but notably this doesnt align with your abilities which are very direct.
The other idea is to use poison as a "fight fire with fire" kind of thing. Those that corrupt with venom die by venom. And all evil is venom, a poison that corrupts within, so poison shall fight poison. This makes more sense, but you should be a bit more careful to maneuver around Conquest's "Crush all dissent" theme
I should note that Poison is quite a bad damage type, so you having options of Poison or Radiant means anyone using this, if playing optimally, will use radiant 99% of the time
stray fog
Explain what you mean about that
Poison.
Is quite a bad damage type.Tell me what you mean by that
mint hare
Poison is the most resisted and immune against damage type in the game
Thats it
Fire is second, then cold and lightning, so on and so forth
stray fog
I'm just going with what I found man
stray fog
Subclass was sitting in the back of a binder with just spells and feats listed with the name of the subclass a dm was working on before he deployed
I never could find that dm's name
mint hare
Ah so it isnt yours, its an old DM of yours?
stray fog
I went through all of his books at the back of that military library
mint hare
Aahh some old DM that played on the military base?
No problem
My advice wasnt saying that it was bad per se
stray fog
No, it was actually a military vet who end up deploying, who never labeled his name anywhere on any of the books. Otherwise I would've given him credit. But I use that with a bunch of information that I was given and.
I was just going based off of. His hopes and dreams for the class and making it playable
I went through back the three big commander toke boxes too
Before I left a p g
mint hare
Yes so our purpose is to make it functional yes?
stray fog
Absolutely.I'd like to keep most of it.But if tenants are not up to part then I would like to change them and make this workable I would love to hear which tenants you think I should take out or change
I developed.
This with a bunch of other d.M's after I impiled all the data that I had on this character subclass
mint hare
The comment about Poison being a bad damage typw was just a caution: any player that uses this and plays optimally will use radiant the most.
Thats not to say you cant use Poison. Many people use Poison in their characters. But having an option of the worst damage type in the game and the second or maybe best damage type, you can see which will be used
I personally have a subclass thats all about poison so im not against poison really
stray fog
I mean most of the radiant attacks that are available to this paladin are in fact buffs
I mean there's very few that aren't buffa
mint hare
Yeah I mean, my point is that if you were using the Channel Divinity for example, 9 times out of 10 you will choose radiant. Thats all im saying, and its just a caution
So the question is more: do you actually want poison to be relevant? Or are you OK with it being just there for flavor and maybe the 1 time out of 10 you do use it?
stray fog
No I want poison to be useful
I mean based off of my spells.It's pretty.I would love to hear your opinions on it.Because I because I have just recently started playing test.And yes and I haven't ran into any problems yet
mint hare
I didnt say there were problems yet
But when you fight demons for example
You will use radiant
And elementals? Radiant
And plants? Radiant
And devils? Radiant
And undead? Radiant
stray fog
Yes, Are you saying most elementals are?
Immune to poison
mint hare
Yeap
stray fog
OK, is there a way to make the poison useful?Besides the fact it's a manticore's poison
mint hare
Maybe, but what I wanted to know was your intention first
stray fog
I wanted to be useful and destructive
mint hare
Anyway, im gonna try to format the subclass properly first
As for the tenets, imo I cant give much advice
mint hare
Mmm idk what kind of idea youre going for specifically, so just take it with a g...
other than this
stray fog
you my hero snowwolf
mint hare
so you should decide what path to go for and what the tenets would be like
stray fog
Those tenants were what the original creator had
I do not want to Deviate too much.from what the original creator had in mind
mint hare
Oath of the Manticore
Tenets
[Insert tenets here]
Oath Spells
You gain oath spells at the paladin levels listed.
3rd - Guiding Bolt, Ray of Sickness
5th - Cloud of Daggers, Protection from Poison
9th - Blinding Smite, Stinking Cloud
13th - Blight, Sickening Radiance
17th - Cloudkill, Flame Strike
(Paladins get Oath Spells, which are basically what he did to say he granted them access to those spells. Poison Spray was excluded because its a cantrip, and Paladins dont get cantrips. I added more spells to fill out the rest of the Oath Spell list)
Channel Divinity.
At 3rd level, the paladin gains the following 2 channel divinity options
Channel Divinity: Manticore's Wrath
As an action, you can expend a use of your channel divinity and exhale a potent poisonous breath in a 15 foot cone. Creatures within the cone must make a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failed save, a creature takes 2d6 poison damage and is blinded for 1 minute, or half as much damage and not be blinded on a success. A creature can repeat this saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on a success.
(Paladins do not get anything other than Channel Divinities and Oath Spells at 3rd, so I made this into a CD. However, this becomes very unusual for a CD because it deals direct damage, only one other does and that is Light Cleric's, and its blind is too strong. My proposed change for this is: You can use your channel divinity and exhale blinding fumes in a 15 foot cone. Creatures within the cone must make a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC or be blinded until the end of your next turn.)
To be continued...
mint hare
Channel Divinity: Radiant Venom
As a bonus action, you can expend a use of your channel divinity and imbue your weapon with poison or radiance. Your next weapon attack deals extra poison or radiant damage (your choice) equal to your Charisma modifier.
(This one is a damage buff, so its not as bad. This one has the issue of radiant being SOOO much better than poison, so we need an incentive to use poison. Maybe add: If you choose poison, the target hit by the attack has disadvantage on it next attack roll on its next turn. If you choose radiant, the target hit by the attack has disadvantage on it next saving throw on its next turn.
Traits: Manticore Resilience
We're getting rid of this, and moving it. MOVED
Radiant Aura
Uhhh no. Multiple problems with this feature. First, the bonus is not stated, how much is the bonus??? Second, ANOTHER boost to saves ON TOP of Aura of Prot? we're breaking the game now. Third, a boost to AC?? Very delicate and potentially bad for balance. And lastly, a permanent damage aura, which is again has no value and also might be too strong. We'll replace it with this:
Aura of the Manticore
Beginning at 7th level, you and friendly creatures within 10 feet of you cannot become poisoned. This aura does not expel poisons already affecting a creature.
At 18th level, the range of this aura extends to 30 feet.
(You can use Lay on Hands to heal it anyway)
Vile Toxin
We already have a damage boost with the CD, this is probably much. Plus, paladins do not gain a 10th level subclass feature. REMOVED
Radiant Smite
Another damage boost and actually just normal paladin Divine Smite, so this was very unnecessary. Plus, paladins do not gain a 13th level feature. REMOVED
To be continued...
Glorious Toxins
Starting at 15th level, when you hit a creature with your Radiant Venom Channel Divinity and choose poison, it is instead Poisoned for 1 minute, or if you choose radiant, it instead has disadvantage on its saving throws for 1 minute. A creature can make a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC at the end of each of its turns to end either effect.
(We're giving an upgrade to Radiant Venom CD instead, so the Pally has multiple statuses it can apply, making it feel like a versatile poisoner. This also allows us to discard the upgraded damage of "Improved Radiant and Venom" CD, which is not necessary.)
20TH LEVEL TRANSFORMATION
This subclass is missing one of the most iconic and powerful feature of the Paladin: A Transformation. Idk what to put here, but all paladins unleash extreme divine power and become a beacon of whatever it is they are channeling. Think of a good one and drop it here. Usually they have 3 benefits or so, and only have 1 use per long rest.
Overall: This subclass was very DAMAGE DAMAGE DAMAGE which tbh the paladin doesnt really need. There's probably other ways to go about this, but I tried my best salvaging what works and what doesn't here
As for the rest: To me it seems all of this was not for people to use but actually is just his character sheet!
The spells are a mix of Made Up spells, actual spells, and so on. He got the uses wrong, seems like he doesn't know how slots work, like cure wounds being 4 times and bless being 4 times when both are 1st level spells, sharing the same spell slots. Cloud of Daggers is a 2nd level spell, it shouldnt be in the 1st level list. This version of Cloud of Daggers is also NOT THE OFFICIAL VERSION, and its stun effect + damage is not a 1st level spell power level.
It seems his DM is very generous and gave them feats at 1st, 5th, 10th, 11th, and 14th. These are not ASI levels and are clearly also not feat levels. The balance of these feats are up in the air.
I can't comment on the new spells, new feats, or items, until they're written down better, and tbh I've spent far too much time with this now and I have other things to attend to. Hopefully you just need the subclass: Don't use the rest unless you get more feedback
mint hare
Transformation Suggestion:
Icon of the Heavenly Snake.
At 20th level, you can use a bonus action to shroud yourself in a visage of a divine serpent. For 1 minute, you gain the following benefits:
- Your weapon attacks have additional reach of 10 feet.
- Creatures that hit you with an attack become poisoned until the end of their current turn.
- Creatures you poison while in this form have their speeds reduced by half.
Once you assume this form, you can't do so again until you finish a long rest.
stray fog
I'm curious why people keep adding snakes to this
mint hare
Divine Serpent is a trope: coatls and their namesake Quetzalcoatl comes to mind
Snake is just kinda easier to roll with too, manticores are usually monstrosities and its a bit more wordy (more syllables) and doesnt flow naturally like "heavenly snake" or "divine serpent" does
stray fog
Yeah i'm gonna stick with a manticore
Yeah, I didn't feel comfortable taking away.Most of those spells hoping to keep most of the spells.I had because this character has an actual resistance to poison.And radiance as it is
But.
I would love to have them put in the right ones.I gave you
That would be really awesome whenever you get sometimes snow wolf
mint hare
I can try to touch on the spells but im not much a spell guy. The feats I can take a look at too. The items, not so much, but items are always DM dependant so just roll with what items your DM gives you
As my name says my specialty is subclasses, Blood Hunter and my personal project the Dancer class
I will say the "Cloud of Daggers" he has is not a cloud of any sort nor is it a dagger. Its like, a rocket punch
And also again, you arent really taking away from it if you dont choose the spells. I honestly believe this was more his character sheet if it was written this way when you found it
If you added those things like 4 uses and such then thats a different story
Also I hope youre OK with the stuff I took away. Most of the ones I took away are either bad for balance, literally redundant with existing features, or excessive damage stacking
Ok so lets go a bit further...
Skill Proficiencies
These are probably just the two skills he chose from the Paladin list, plus two from his background. We don't know what his background is, so just choose skills where appropriate. These are NOT extra skills granted by this subclass.
Saving Throws
These are just the save profs of the Paladin class. Read the Paladin class.
Spellcasting Ability
This is just him writing down what his save DC is. Read the Paladin class spellcasting.
Spells
This is just his list of what spells he chose.
PALADINS DO NOT GET CANTRIPS. But he may have chosen the Blessed Warrior fighting style for his fighting style at 2nd level. Which allows him to choose two cantrips from the Cleric class. Sacred Flame is a cleric cantrip, but Poison Spray is NOT. Ask your DM to let you choose it if you really want it, but its a fairly meh cantrip. I would go with Sacred Flame and Guidance or Thaumaturgy.
Honestly the rest of this is a huge mess
Like Poison Spray is nothing like the 5e version
Sacred Flame isnt the 5e version either
He omits their saving throw requirement
Bless somehow has a damage bonus and not a save bonus, it also targets one instead of 3
Cure wounds add charisma (correct) but also adds caster level (incorrect). Actually it seems he may be remembering an older edition where caster level is added to some spells in some places
Dont do this though, goes against 5e design
Also dont do his version of poison spray
Also dont do his version of sacred flame
mint hare
Yeah dont use his feats either
Its all just description
very little actual mechanis
Weapon Master already exists as a feat. The Paladin also has no use for it. What the heck is "maximize damage output" and "refine combat prowess"?
"Enhance your resilience to poison" What does that mean? "A common challenge for your character concept" It isnt a common challenge because this paladin is resistant to poison apparently and Paladins can easily cleanse it with Lay on Hands
"Provide consistent healing" How? Nothing here states that. And consistent healing already exists with the Paladin, just use Lay on Hands
mint hare
Yeah, I didn't feel comfortable taking away.Most of those spells hoping to keep ...
If you want to use spells, just look up the real spells he names, rather than the spells here describes here. The ones here are probably him inventing things because they didnt have the source books.
Use the real Bless
Use the real Cure Wounds
Use the real Cloud of Daggers (which is a 2nd level spell)
Use the real Branding Smite
Use the real Healing Word (which is a 1st level spell)
Use the real Contagion (which is a 5th level spell)
Use the real Dawn (which is a 5th level spell)
Use the real Cloudkill (which is a 5th level spell)
Use the real Mass Healing Word (which is a 3rd level spell)
Use the real Revivify (which is a 3rd level spell)
Weapon of the Manticore is broken, this is like a 6th level spell probably, something a Paladin cannot get
Noxious Blight is weak af, ask your DM to give you Fireball but poison damage if you really want it. No guarantees though (fireball kinda broken after all)
Withering Touch is also fairly weak, this is more like a 2nd level Inflict Wounds, and doesn't tell you what the poison damage over time is
Toxic Radiance is just... poison Fireball. Less damage than fireball at a higher level but with a poison rider but with no duraton at all