And this understanding step has to happen before you form a routine in play
#[5e14] The Spellblade by AnthonycHero [Class]
naive coral
dim verge
I really get it, but I also really think when push comes to shove the text benefits from being clean from my thoughts. And again, I'm not saying I don't intend on helping people understand what it does, I'm saying I prefer to do it at the end of the text.
What I will do, though, is put a banner (maybe around quick build?) telling people the designer commentary is a thing.
naive coral
Yeah, that's probably similar to what I'll do as well
dim verge
In actual play, I'm obviously partial but I think it'd just be lots of fun at this stage. Again not 100% sure about the power level (more like 95% sure, down to 80% when we consider ALL subclasses) but that's normal
naive coral
Honestly, if I were to guess, it's probably too weak. Your approach to balancing does seem to be overly conservative
dim verge
It's a recurring theme with homebrew classes I've seen lately. Generally undertuned with the exception of some slips.
What I think balances that out is the spell progression. By which I mean you can hardly make a fullcaster in 5e too weak, and this is close to one.
(btw I need a 2nd-level spell for the elements subclass)
naive coral
Fair, the 2/3 casting may definitely bring it up
dim verge
Once again here with some small corrections based on your feedback. But mostly, thanks to Cubelith and Tamms, I've changed which subclasses are now included in the main document and switched the rest around.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YJm-9-rwPCRuq2ofGBDt_QMDErLSl4Q2/view?usp=sharing
@hollow heart could I ask you to pin this version? I don't have the powers myself
naive coral
It's better to pin a message once and then just edit it specifically for this reason
Any specific changes you want me to look at?
dim verge
It's better to pin a message once and then just edit it specifically for this re...
I would edit a pinned message if there were one to begin with
dim verge
Any specific changes you want me to look at?
The subclasses I think. The rest is basically unchanged or aligned to what we discussed
hollow heart
dim verge
Thanks Izzy!
naive coral
- Tangled Nature should probably just be a spell?
- I'm not sure how I feel about Caring Nature being on a subclass that doesn't get almost any beneficial spells on its list, but it's optional and you can always choose those spells, so I guess it's fine
- Mark of Burning Radiance is another bookkeepy thing. Isn't there a neater way?
- Distant Sight should probably specify normal range, as opposed to long range. However, I feel like this is either going to be a useless ribbon, or break a given game, depending on DM
- Chosen by the Moon is again pretty weak and situational for a subclass capstone
- Defensive Mastery feels a bit restrictive, I feel like it could just be a part of Protective Affinity or something
- Elemental Demise being triggered on death feels... weird. Are you trying to encourage this subclass to just kamikaze in every combat? It's also not particularly strong at that point, and again, it's not really exciting on a class that can cast spells already. If you want to keep it, it should also bring you back to life a'la Relentless Rage (flavor it like something Phoenix-like)
Otherwise, a solid idea for the basic subclass
Seems like a much more natural choice for the basic 3 subclasses for sure, though I'd probably put Elemental first
dim verge
- Why a spell? That's just an evocative ribbon.
- It's opt in as you say. There's several buff spells on the list you can use to trigger it.
- As far as limited use things go, every subclass has one that scales off the spellcasting stat to give an additional reason to build for it. If you're worried about the marking aspect, that works like all other marking abilities in the game so I just lifted it, and you should be able to keep track the enemy you're trying to reach without efforts. But yes, there could be other ways.
- Well most things don't even have a short and long range, only weapons do. In terms of breaking the game, I doubt it can unless you let it.
- I don't think I want subclass capstones to be particularly more powerful than these two, really. And aren't those useful spells generally?
dim verge
Seems like a much more natural choice for the basic 3 subclasses for sure, thoug...
I thought about it, but it doesn't matter much and just makes for a disordered list doesn't it?
naive coral
- Well, it's 1/LR and you can recast it using slots. Plus there's already very little Divination spells
- Do you really want the player constantly asking "well, can I reach the enemies over there" though? Feels like it'd encourage that
- Well, they are. But gaining just two more spells known and not a new resource or ability isn't really worth a capstone in most cases
dim verge
- Defensive Mastery feels a bit restrictive, I feel like it could just be a part...
- defensive mastery can give you immunities much more freely than otherwise possible in the game. I think it's pretty powerful.
- yeah it's a bit underwhelming. The damage should be calculated more accurately, and the relentless rage addition could be useful. Maybe delayed to keep it more flavourful?
dim verge
- Well, it's 1/LR and you can recast it using slots. Plus there's already very l...
- Yes but then again, it's just meant to be a ribbon.
- I don't know I normally play on a mat, and most people I think play on digital boards. Isn't it an automatic thing to keep track of? If it's a more theatre of the mind game, then the answer should just be yes really
- It's 14th-level not 20. I'm not saying I'm against changing it, just that it doesn't feel all that important to me. If I have a new more exciting idea I may change it.
naive coral
- defensive mastery can give you immunities much more freely than otherwise poss...
- Well, it's not weak, it's more that it kinda forces you to take specific spells to make use of it, which I'm not a fan of. I guess Protection from Energy is on the list though, so...
- I think a delay would make it even harder to get any use of, though yes, the flavor could be nice. Also, make it not hit your allies, as it's something that's very hard to aim anyway
dim verge
- Well, it's not weak, it's more that it kinda forces you to take specific spell...
Protection from energy AND absorb elements, those already work together and with your first feature
naive coral
- Yes but then again, it's just meant to be a ribbon.
- I don't know I normally ...
- Very few maps would have 300-feet distances. For a standard humanoid, that's 5 turns being pelted with arrows while just dashing towards the party. Is that really good gameplay?
- 14 or 20, it's still the last ability of the subclass. It should always feel meaningful
dim verge
- Very few maps would have 300-feet distances. For a standard humanoid, that's 5...
Is it normal for encounters to start at that range if the map doesn't allow interactions from a distance?
Don't get me wrong I don't want to just ignore feedback because, but eldritch spear has been in the game for a while and I've rarely heard any discussions about it
And this is not considering longbows can already hit farther than that
naive coral
Dunno, maybe DMs are smart enough to handle it. I just feel it could either encourage annoying stuff like that, or just be plainly useless
dim verge
I don't think it's my place to police these sort of things really. It's offering more of something that already exists in the game. You can engage with it or move on. Even just the choice of focusing on a longbow or similar weapon in a campaign where ranges don't matter would be weird to begin with.
In other instances, this is mostly useful to use a cantrip at 100 feet or so rather than to actually use the whole range. The big number is just so that you don't need to care about it, which is the opposite of what you say.
naive coral
Well, "you can engage or move on" isn't really a good philosophy for a subclass feature that isn't choosable
dim verge
Subclasses are choosable. Why are you playing a bow subclass in a game where long ranged weapons are obnoxious? I seriously don't get the criticism
And trying to cater all subclass features to all playstyles is doomed to failure, or to seriously limit the range of things you can do
naive coral
Well, it's the "DM, I have this feature, so I should totally be able to use it all the time" effect that I'm worried about. Having it as a specific feature makes you actually think about it
dim verge
That's a philosophy I am contrary to. Shoot the monk, sure, but to an extent. You get to play with your toys sometimes and sometimes you don't. And in this case specifically, you can still play with it by throwing a dagger at 90 feet or using ray of frost at 120 feet, so I don't think this is a particularly useless one when you don't get to use it to its full extent.
I will see to add some other thing on top of the 14th level feature
dim verge
It's more cliché but I mean if it works.
I've considered making the damage immediate and the rebirth delayed, but it makes more sense this way thematically. It also didn't make sense that you could exclude your allies from the effect but Cubelith raised a good concern in terms of gameplay, so the delay also helps in that sense because most of the times your allies will have time to move out. If your DM abuses this to always deny you the damage no matter what, it's still better Relentless Endurance 3-5/LR, so you should be fine really
stuck island
I think a delay is fine in of itself, it is a delay but the actual effect is good enough that I think it balances out.
dim verge
It's even too good possibly (?) Maybe it's too close to barbarian territory with all those uses
stuck island
Perhaps so, maybe cutting down a bit, like in half would be a good way to balance the amount of uses then.
dim verge
1/LR I think is fine, really.
Having the possibility to act right after the endurance thing triggers (and with the enemies either damaged or far away to retreat) already makes it pretty powerful. I'll make it so it also works if you die die in the meanwhile just to be sure.
stuck island
That's fair, personally think once per long rest is too little but that's just me.
dim verge
It is too little in terms of feeling, but I also don't want to make it so you're never in a concrete risk of dying anymore
stuck island
Yeah that I do understand, and ultimately I think that's fine really, I just having more resources lol.
stuck island
What's your favourite subclass so far?
Probably divine moonlight or elemental breath but divine moonlight kinda is pushing all the things I like. But if there was a runic or draconic flavoured subclass I'd probably lose my mind and go hard for them lol.
dim verge
Probably divine moonlight or elemental breath but divine moonlight kinda is push...
There is a draconic one but it's more knight of draconic cult than literal draconic magic.
The runic one is in my plans.
I'm curious, what do you like specifically about Divine Moonlight? I like it a lot as well but it's a vague thing I can't really pin down
stuck island
There is a draconic one but it's more knight of draconic cult than literal draco...
Honestly? The flavour and the style of it is really nice at least to my sensibilities, it doesn't feel game changing but for role-playing and getting that subclass feel across is just really great.
dim verge
I probably agree, yes. The design was informed by the themes much more than an actual mechanical identity to me so perhaps that's why it feels compelling but not for clear reasons
stuck island
That's understandable but it still feel quite good even after a rudimentary check.
naive coral
It's more cliché but I mean if it works.
I've considered making the damage imme...
*rise, but yeah, seems much better. I think 1/LR is fine - how often do you expect to die anyway? - but I'd up the damage a bit then. At 14th, even a regular halfcaster could be upcasting Fireball. And as for the delay, you could just make it triggered on any of your turns, not necessarily directly after going down? Could make it easier to coordinate with friends, or you could choose to use it after failing two death saves
dim verge
*rise, but yeah, seems much better. I think 1/LR is fine - how often do you expe...
Oops, raise is transitive you're right
dim verge
*rise, but yeah, seems much better. I think 1/LR is fine - how often do you expe...
You can upcast fireball as well, what about fireball?
This is not taking an action nor a 3rd-level slot. It doesn't look like fireball to me. It could possibly go way higher in terms of damage/LR, but it's all at once so I don't know (and it's on top of a different damage boost at 6th)
The chosen delay is an interesting thing to consider. I'm not sure it's the sort of complexity I like (and I'm also getting attached to the actual resurrection possibility)
naive coral
It's mostly about impact and excitingness, really. It does indeed have a low action cost, but it takes going down to trigger. I think it's fair to give it a bit more oomph, because it's not gonna break anything, and you want it to feel powerful
dim verge
You'd set it at what? 8?
naive coral
More like it, yeah. Matching Fireball seems like an added benefit (even though yes, Fireball is overtuned)
I'd still consider some kind of friend protection though. Could be easy to tie in flavorwise (your allies share in your rebirth)
dim verge
I'd still consider some kind of friend protection though. Could be easy to tie i...
I think you're too scared of uncomfortable mechanics in general
naive coral
Maybe. But this one is up there in terms of uncomfortableness
This would probably be too complex for this subclass, but it'd be interesting if it dealt damage to enemies, but gave hitpoints to your allies (in which case 6d6 would probably be quite fine), thus making it the ultimate table-turner ability
dim verge
Maybe. But this one is up there in terms of uncomfortableness
It's just an AoE man -.-"
dim verge
Can't aim it, but you're probably going to be close to a few enemies if you go down.
Can't aim it, but a portion of your allies will have a turn to move out of the way.
Can't aim it, but unless you go down to a power word or some other 100-0 thing, you're going to be low before you drop to 0.
Really everybody should know what's coming at that point
dim verge
This would probably be too complex for this subclass, but it'd be interesting if...
Yeah, it's usually a nice ability. It's just not in line with this specific subclass as you say
naive coral
Fair, I suppose
dim verge
And if it's an especially bad situation, you can not use really. Can't aim it, but you're not forced to activate it nor anything.
Your turn is next and half the party is within range? Somebody will heal you this time around.
You're surrounded by 2-3 enemies and the healer is too far? Boom
naive coral
Yeah, I suppose. I still think it could use a little something, but with the upped damage it should be fine
dim verge
8d6 is comparable to the damage added by the havoc steed's breath weapon. It's not an iron tight metric for obvious reasons, but it's at least half a reason compared to none at all, so
naive coral
Yeah. I guess it could have something like Advantage on all attacks for your turn, to make staying in combat at least a little tempting. Getting more complex again though
dim verge
Deciding on an amount of damage is an actual necessity. Adding stuff on top really isn't.
I know you like the flashier stuff, but it's ok really.
Plus, it's no paladin capstone, it doesn't have to carry the whole class endgame.
dim verge
Yeah. I guess it could have something like Advantage on all attacks for your tur...
The one thing I could see kind of working for this, is reducing the damage again but also healing you. However I prefer the straightforward effect here.
naive coral
Healing is definitely a solid option, yeah. But it'd need to be high enough to actually matter, which does indeed take some power budget
stuck island
No big updates, but I've made some art I wanted to share
Oh that's really cool!
dim verge
I'll do more if I can spare the time. Obviously commissioning a professional would yield better results, but I don't have the money for that, so
naive coral
That's fair. I'll probably go with vague runes or something else I can feasibly program myself
dim verge
I don't think it's too bad. I'm very fine with the outcome considering it's a fan project
naive coral
Yeah. I wouldn't be able to draw anything nearly as coherent though
dim verge
Fair
naive coral
I could ask my fiancée though 🤔
icy geyser
I'll do more if I can spare the time. Obviously commissioning a professional wou...
I mean, your "main issue" is just a little bit of perspective/anatomy (it could be one, or both things tbh), mainly with the upper legs / torso, and its only noticeable when you really look.
It looks like stylised watercolour fantasy art otherwise
dim verge
I mean, your "main issue" is just a little bit of perspective/anatomy (it could ...
It's mostly perspective, and it's mostly due to the torso not really reading as leaning as much as it does, but I did not want to go too heavy with lines and/or shadows on the torso to correct this because the rest of the colors are purposefully pretty flat
icy geyser
yeah, flat is fine
dim verge
I could have probably used the padding texture more to this scope, but hey if I were that much better I wouldn't be complaining about it on a discord server
dim verge
I was curious, so I made the font 10pt and cut one entire column of artwork to match the phb layout as close as possible in terms of spacing, and I sit at 7 pages for class + three subclasses.
This is still roughly 1 1/2 pages longer than, say, sorcerer, and longer in general than phb classes, but wouldn't surpass the longest ones that also sit at 7-8 pages (although most that do have more than three subclasses).
This "experiment" doesn't really say much except that the 2014 phb has ant-sized letters.
dense moth
lol
dim verge
I couldn't hold myself ahaha
To see what I mean, 10 vs 11. The yellowish one is from druid
dense moth
Quite a difference
dim verge
Indeed, and I think most homebrew will gravitate towards a size closer to the 11 example because it feels more comfortable on a screen (and digital pages don't cost more money like physical pages do)
stuck island
To see what I mean, 10 vs 11. The yellowish one is from druid
Prefer the white one honestly, kinda tired of the yellow faded paper look to be honest.
dim verge
Prefer the white one honestly, kinda tired of the yellow faded paper look to be ...
Oh I prefer the dirty white as well, but here I was only referring to font size
stuck island
On that front I think 10 is a bit better? Seems to fit better and be easier to read.
naive coral
Yeah, 10 is not a lot. In LaTeX, I always set it to 12, and only because it doesn't have higher sizes by default
naive coral
Prefer the white one honestly, kinda tired of the yellow faded paper look to be ...
Dunno, the yellow is pretty thematic. Also, it's darker - personally I'd just like dark backgrounds for digital, as they're easier on the eyes
But yes, changing from the default yellow is certainly a good way to make your brew stand out
stuck island
Dunno, the yellow *is* pretty thematic. Also, it's darker - personally I'd just ...
Eh i am just kinda over it from all the years of seeing it around, I prefer all the different look templates and design schemes available.
naive coral
Fair I guess, though I never really minded things like that being repetitive, I guess. I suppose it'd make sense if each system had its own, and then it'd be easy to recognize
dim verge
different books have different color schemes, really, even the official ones
naive coral
that could make sense too, if each book had an actual theme
dim verge
I don't especially care. I like the clean look that white gives off, and I only put a background to have not hurt as much as the pure white page does. The fonts and word colours I care about more, and those I'm trying to have coherent across the things I write
naive coral
Fair I guess? Though I'd say having some background texture is just as important for fiction stuff. It really helps build a theme, whether it's an old manuscript or a holographic screen
dim verge
For a professionally published book, sure
naive coral
Well, why settle for less? It's not like it usually takes much effort. I'll need to come up with something for mine too
dim verge
Because finding the background I'm using now took me long enough compared to the interest I had in the topic. Why not the default one at that point? Well that I just find ugly to be honest. I still like white more.