Telos Zois Compendium

[quartz tinsel]

so why call them spell slots?

give it a different resource and you can fine tune the balance more

[gray dove]

Yeah Izzy gave the idea to have them be essentially spell slots but just in name

Its also so its easier to scale arcane construct damage and dispelled construct spell effects

But it is still technically Arcana

[gray dove]

I have no idea how ill make that work mechanically

@rustic solar any inputs as you suggested the mechanic?

[rustic solar]

you want them to use weapons, or no?

like actually use weapons

[hollow needle]

I’m just gonna step over here and GIVE ME THAT MIC!
Just wanted to tell you that I don’t really like that Anti magic gifts are feats, and that you have to take a different feat for each gift
I would make it so you have to take 1 feat and that feat gives you access to a gift and as you level up it slowly increases the number, like say at lvl 5th it becomes 2 gifts, at 11th 3, at 17th 4
or smth like that

[rustic solar]

That doesn't sound like a feat

that sounds like an entire subclass @hollow needle

[hollow needle]

well as Phoenix has it, its a feat that each martial can pick and pick a gift. I just personally dont like it obstructing on feat territory that much

[rustic solar]

Granting an entire subclass to a category of classes in a feat slot seems worse though

[hollow needle]

I see what you mean, but I'm personally ok with that bit of overpowereness for the sake of not obstructing on feat territory, unless you have a better plan for it? they're like Eldritch Invocations kinda

[rustic solar]

Granting scaling EIs also seems like too much for a feat

They should be alternate in separate altogether if they can't fit Within the expectations for a feat in the first place

[hollow needle]

wdym?

[gray dove]

Yes

Weapons and the weapon constructs

Or do u think i should make them just do the weapon constructs?

[gray dove]

They arent

Each individual one isnt a feat

The feat gives you two of them

[hollow needle]

well that IS nicer, I still want at least 3 or 4

[gray dove]

I was worried thatd be too many

[hollow needle]

depending on which you take, it may be

[gray dove]

Exactly

Maybe ill just say 3 as a good mid ground

Then u can get a pair and one spicy one (ie the magic tracking pair and say mage hunters mark if youre a ranger, those three go good together)

[hollow needle]

magic tracking is useless /j

[gray dove]

This is the actual feat

That advantage is why I had it at two

[hollow needle]

asshole, you stole my first level feature with the advantage bit /j

[gray dove]

YOU GAVE THAT AT FIRST LEVEL???

Thats fucking brutal at 1st level

[hollow needle]

only the advantage, you also roll a dice to lower the DC of the saving throw

[gray dove]

THATS ALOT

[hollow needle]

wait

WHAT DO I KEEP THINKING OF THE OLD VERSION OF MY FEATURES

no no advantage, just roll the dice

that was in Spellbreaker 0.1

[gray dove]

Lmfao

Okay that makes more sense

But back on topic

[hollow needle]

its number of times = prof bonus
yes yes back there

[gray dove]

Yes the plan is for Battlemages to wield both weapons and weapon constructs

(In response to Izzy’s question)

[hollow needle]

@rustic solar sorry for getting off topic lol

[gray dove]

However they can make attacks with their weapons instead of with their wielded weapon for the attack action

[hollow needle]

wielded weapon meaning the construct or weapon meaning the construct?

[gray dove]

Weapons as in the construct

Sorry xD

I need to figure out a better name for these things

ok but i need to make smth called a SpellForge now

Maybe thats what ill call the weapons—

Or ill make a subclass called that

[hollow needle]

Spellforge should be a magic item imo

[gray dove]

True

[gray dove]

Its gonna be— “fun” to come up with the Battlemage “cantip” abilities

How many do yall think i should come up with?

Basically theyd just be easy construct summons or small magic enhancements

But i also want a couple of them to work for rp or exploration

[hollow needle]

roll 1d100, ensure you roll over 50, divide by 3 and if it is over 20 take half of it away

[gray dove]

Wot

That seems—

Needlessly complicated

[gray dove]

Ok so i did it and got abt 12 xD

[hollow needle]

Yea you can only get 9-15

[gray dove]

Lmfao

[gray dove]

So what kinda abilities should these “cantrips” be? And what should i call them cause they arent cantrips

[gray dove]

Ooo wait

Ok

So

Should there be a set number of “cantrips” that they get all of

Orrrr

Should i make a big list and they can choose from it?

[quartz tinsel]

typically it's a list of choices

for custom you're going to want to be able to select halfish total

[gray dove]

So should i have it be like 12 options or you can choose 12 of them?

[quartz tinsel]

wizards can learn 5 cantrips baseline

having 12 is insane

[gray dove]

Either way i gotta come up with 12 Battlemage cantrips xD

Alr so 12 options then

What kinda things should you be able to do w/ em?

I need a few ideas

[hollow needle]

depends on what they do/their power level

[gray dove]

they would be relatively stronger maneuver-like abilities

[gray dove]

Just adding an optional feature for Paladins and Rangers to get Cantrips

[gray dove]

@rustic solar sorry for pinging u so much but now that the battlemage doesnt have “spells” how could i still do the thing where while attacking that gets stronger then when they would have switched to spells smth cool happens?

[gray dove]

For every attack you hit your next attack gains a +1 to its attack and damage rolls, to a maximum of +3; these are reverted to +0 when you miss an attack by more than 5 or when you do not attack for 2 turns. When you next activate a Battlemagic Tactic or an attack with an Spellforged Weapon while your attacks have +3, you release a pulse of unstable magic forcing all creatures within 10 feet of you to make a Constitution saving throw or against your Battlemagic save DC. If they fail you roll on the Unstable Magic table to see how they are effected, if they succeed they are unaffected

That was my idea for it

[gray dove]

Hmmmm

Im now wondering if i should make the battlemage itself into a subclass

With each subclass having received their magic a different way and thus their magic would opperate in a different way

Ie one would be the curse one couldve been through study

Because as is this feels like its becoming more of a paladin where the spellcasting is just augmenting their martial abilities when i wanted it to be closer to a gish that can use both equally

[gray dove]

First set of Battlemagic Tactics

[gray dove]

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/UfeRUQfBIAXZ

Just reposting the Battlemage class

Now theres the currnet finished version and if u scroll down theres the new wip version

That leans more into arcane augmentation of martial combat

Rather than fully mixing combat with magic

[gray dove]

Ok so what if

They still kinda know magic

Like

They have one slot per level of spell

Not one slot

They know one spell per spell slot level

And they can cast it once normally

But if they try again thats when theyd have to do the Unstable Magic thing

Cause that still allows fr spellstrikes n stuff

While still thematically sound

[rustic solar]

So I think that we need to refocus a bit.

[gray dove]

Yeah xD

[rustic solar]

At 1st level, I'd look at something like

You can conjure magic constructions. As a bonus action on your turn, you can summon one of the following:
An Arcane Weapon: deals X damage, hovers in your space, has massive reach. I don't think these have to be attackable if we simply balance them properly.
An Arcane Wall: Has X HP, Y AC, and is roughly 5x5x1. Used for cover or obstruction. Can hold up a max of Z weight. Must be connected to surface.
An Arcane Item: Summon a mundane item worth less than X gp, and can fit within a Y shaped space.

You can have a max of N constructs at the same time. Any additional constructs conjured beyond the first causes the oldest construct to disappear.

This chassis gives us a lot of different ways to use your powers, it gives us the sensation that you can crystalize your powers in many different ways, and it offers tactical depth

[gray dove]

Thats a bit of where i went w/ a couple of these

Instead of making them all base class features

I made the Object and Architecture things tactics

[rustic solar]

The more things you make optional, the less focused your class feels

I'm not saying you can't make optional features, but I am saying that they should be a supplement to a well defined core

not the core onto themselves

[gray dove]

True

[gray dove]

What do u think abt this idea btw?

Id personally like to do it so it allows me to put a little more gish-y stuff into it which was the og idea

[rustic solar]

I think there is a conflict here

your goal is "gish with arcane floating weapons" then?

[gray dove]

Honestly idk

My initial idea was partial gish with focus in arcane floating weapons

Tho the arcane weapons would be the majority of their magic stuff, but i still wanted there to be a little

[rustic solar]

I would stick to low level spells if possible. Then do the sacrifice thing i mentioned before to cast them

Got hit? Break apart two constructus you have out to cast shield

[gray dove]

Oh!!!

Wait

So

You would basically use the constructs as spell slots

And youd still have a spell list

I misunderstood what u meant entirely

[rustic solar]

This would mean that you can only have up to 3rd level spells, most likely. It also means the selection for them have to eb VERY VERY limited

No fireballs, realistically

But since it isn't "spellcasting" we don't have to worry about slot progression and multiclassing

[gray dove]

Ok i really like that idea xD

Yeah i thought u meant when u break a construct itd be like a random table magic effect

Not that you could break them to like cast a certain spell

[rustic solar]

Nah, I mean break them to cast a spell

[gray dove]

Okok

I like that

Alot more

Than whatever the fuck I was trying to make

I may then because they can still “cast” spells have one subclass be able to cast higher stuff and that basically be their whole thing 😅

[rustic solar]

Higher level slots are pretty much all the budget

[gray dove]

Yeah xD thats why itd be the whole subclass xD

I also might change the name

Cause

There has to be smth cooler than Battlemage

[hollow needle]

the battlemage is officially a subclass? of what?

[gray dove]

Nonono

There would be a battlemage subclass that has extra spellcasting

[hollow needle]

aah

[gray dove]

Ye

Tho

Still planning on changing the Battlemages name

[gray dove]

@frank tangle btw we can move here if u wanna keep giving critiques on the subclass because it’s easier for me to keep track of due to the ongoing convo in brewtwo 😅

Reposting this here incase u do

[gray dove]

Did i miss a message in here or was smth deleted? 😅

I saw an unread notif but nothings here

[hollow needle]

I said i was gonna review it but then got bored and didnt so i deleted the message

[gray dove]

[gray dove]

Ok so the idea for the “spellcasting thing” is basically

You can summon 2 spellforge weapons for free each LR, any more you have to expend 1 spell slot for each. Higher level slot increases their damage by 1d6 (obv to max of 6)

You can, after summoning these weapons, break them as a free action to cast a spell with the resulting well of magic, whose level is equal to the sum of the expended weapons’ spell level (ie sac one that you expended a 1st level to summon you can cast a 1st level spell).

You can also cast a spell normally by expending the spell slots as if you had the spellcasting feature (however you can only do so with spells up to 3rd Level, and can only do so once for each level spell slot, so you can do it a max of 3 times one for 1st level one for 2nd and one for 3rd). After which if you attempt to do so you have to roll on the unstable magic table, the majority of which is just general magic chaos (similar to the wildmagic table but slightly different)

[hollow needle]

I really like the idea of breaking a weapon to cast a spell

i would lean on to that

[gray dove]

Yeah thats why its so limited on the casting that isnt that thing

I may just make it so u can only do it 3 times period and just remove the unstable mechanic

[gray dove]

Should i make it so they can break the weapons as a free action and then basically just cast the spell as normal?

Or should breaking the weapons cost like a BA?

I think it should be free action cause the spells themselves already take a ba or action

[hollow needle]

I would say breaking the weapon AND casting the spell would be the same action/ba whatever you choose for that
but no need to make it a free action, just say that it happens as part of the same action

[gray dove]

True true

I just wasnt sure how to phrase that

[hollow needle]

are you going to just make it "The weapon break and you cast x spell" Or smth different?

[gray dove]

I think?

Is there anyway else u think it should go?

[hollow needle]

I was thinking of smth somewhat different
one idea that just came to mind was that the first you decide what the spell would be and then you make the weapon, so the weapon works as a sort of spell storing
You could even take this to completely get rid of spell slots, idk how bad this would be but maybe instead of using spell slots to cast spells you are obligated to cast them in weapon forms and can only cast spells = the number of weapons you can have active but everytime a weapon breaks, and casts the spell, you recover that slot
or smth like that

this would mean you would theoretically have infinite spell slots, so thats why idk if this is a specially good feature

[gray dove]

The spell storing is interesting however that’d just add more things for players to track and can be very situational? Like what if u did one with shield but u never get attacked? Whereas with it just being spontaneous u can choose on the spot and adapt

[hollow needle]

Oh I was thinking you would still be able to destroy the weapons yourself to cast the spell, just not in the same turn

[gray dove]

Nono i know

[hollow needle]

oh you mean the spell shield lol

i thought you meant the weapon as a shield?

[gray dove]

Yeah xD

The spell

[hollow needle]

that's a really good point

[gray dove]

Like its entirely pro-active casting but like what if smth changes or doesnt go your way?

Then you just cant use that weapon as a spell

And wasted the slot

[hollow needle]

you didnt tho?
you can destroy the weapon and then cast a different spell with a new weapon
Whats the limit on weapons you can summon?

[gray dove]

Wait wait wait

No i was saying that in reference to your spell storing idea

Because youd have to cast the spell you stored in it

Assuming i understood you correctly

[hollow needle]

right, with my idea you have infinite slots to cast spells lol
but no, when you destroy the weapon you can choose not to cast the spell i guess

[gray dove]

Im very confused xD

Imma just go with the base like you expend them like they were spell slots themselves to cast spells

[hollow needle]

is a completely different system that wouldnt rely on spellcasting lol, so yea its a new thing you dont have to do it lol

[gray dove]

Its just a bit hard to track and stuff 😅

It could be interesting if implemented properly but its hard to implement properly

[hollow needle]

idea for my subclass, plz no steal

[gray dove]

Bish please u steal my stuff all the time xD

[hollow needle]

https://tenor.com/view/run-running-running-away-gif-26050957

[gray dove]

Lmfao

[serene robin]

Hard to review dis boi

[gray dove]

FUCK I KEEP FORGETTING

[gray dove]

Mine doesnt look like that 😭😭😭

Regardless @serene robin this is what it looks like

Im now realizing i just pinged u 3 times so sorry 😅

[gray dove]

@serene robin have u gotten to finish reading thru the class?

[serene robin]

Ima be real, I saw the broken text and completely forgot about it

[gray dove]

PFF

Idk whyits broken for yall its perfectly fine for me xD

[serene robin]

Depends on browsers, happens if you put a break very close to the end of the page

[gray dove]

Weird

[serene robin]

I try to give a little extra room with my docs to avoid that

[gray dove]

Done

Or at least done for that page

[serene robin]

Lovely

But I'm also asleep rn so, can't review atm

But hopefully tomorrow, given time

[hollow needle]

share link

[gray dove]

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/UfeRUQfBIAXZ

After the subclasses is my WIP for the second version of the Battlemage

[hollow needle]

everything looks fine for me

why do you give armor proficiency if you are going to be using Arcane Armor anyways?

[gray dove]

Thats a good point

[hollow needle]

no its not i just checked the barb still gets armor proficiencies so, why do you give armor proficiency if you are going to be using Unarmored Defense anyways wotc??

[gray dove]

The current itteration has the full 2/3 caster spell progression and normal spellcasting, the updated will implement the break-casting

[hollow needle]

im still reading it, i meant the formatting lol

[gray dove]

Ohhhh

😭

[hollow needle]

wouldnt it have been easier to make a statblock for the weapons?

also when do they move?
is it an action, a bonus action, is it free?

"you must roll on the Unstable Magic Table below."

Is that not made yet?

💀 also thats practically 4 features at 1st level alone, and subclass right at 2nd

Another idea for the breaking weapons to cast spell:

Breaking a weapon lets you cast the spell with the weapon as the source point of the spell

probably want to add a limit to the distance the weapons can be from you

[gray dove]

Thats what i said

I explicitly said the V2 was wip

[gray dove]

I used to have that in there but it was one of the casualties of the big Battlemage condensation

[gray dove]

It says they move on your turn n such

So assume free action when it says on your turn unless it states an action trigger

[hollow needle]

oh lol

[gray dove]

Lols

Yeah the V1 ends after the Racer subclass

After that is V2 which is heavy wip

[hollow needle]

"These weapons have a movement speed of 20 feet "

This is all I see abt movement am I missing smth??

[gray dove]

Are u talking V2 text or V1?

[hollow needle]

just for an organization tip, make 2 separate documents lol

[hollow needle]

v2

[gray dove]

Nah its easier for me when theyre on the same

Tbf

They have separate headers too

[hollow needle]

v2 doesnt have a class table tho? I assume you havent made it

[gray dove]

Yeah ik

Havent made it yet

[hollow needle]

btw

[gray dove]

Still working out how ill format it as id have to add Maneuvers n shit

FUCK IGNORE THAT

That was ripped straight from the construct artificer

Which was originally a battlemage subclass

[hollow needle]

did you scrapped that boy out?

[gray dove]

Wel the artificer subclass exists

But its no longer a battlemage sub

[hollow needle]

okok more ideas for the weapon breaking

The weapon summoned freely can only cast cantrips
the weapons summoned with spell slots can only cast spells of the slot they used

this should probably be a higher level feature, like 4th

also funny thing, my spellbreaker rework has "Spellbreaker techniques" which sound very similar to your battlemagic tactics, i swear i just ripped you off yesterday without knowing

[gray dove]

It doesnt get cantrips

The tactics replace them

[hollow needle]

ah

well then make the free weapons not be able to cast any spells???

[gray dove]

Im still working out the logistics but they can be expended to cast 1st leveled spells

[hollow needle]

only?

[gray dove]

Ok well

Basically

Each weapon summoned has an amount of spell levels imbued in it equal to the level expended to cast it

So on their own the free ones can cast a 1st level spell

[hollow needle]

[gray dove]

But u can break multiple at a time and cast levels equal to the total combined level

[hollow needle]

ohh that sounds nice

does casting a spell from the weapons consumes a spell slot or does it uses the same slot that was used for casting the weapon?

[gray dove]

Ye so u also have to think tactically abt how u cast spells and which u break to cast them

[hollow needle]

this would be A LOT of bookeeping

[gray dove]

Yeahhhh

Thats the problem

Thats why the V1 Battlemage has it just at 2/3 caster

[hollow needle]

idea: Make all weapons cast at the same spell slot level, and increase that as you level up

you can still combine levels

[gray dove]

That feels wrong

Cause

[hollow needle]

itll save bookeeping

[gray dove]

When you have 2nd level spells

Youd have to wxpend a 2nd level weapon to cast a 1st level spell

Which wastes your spell slots

[hollow needle]

i dont mean that the weapons always spawn as your higher level slot

the progression could be different

a bit delayed maybe

[gray dove]

Idk what u mean then

Cause rhats what u said xD

[hollow needle]

so when you have 2nd level spells you still need to destroy 2 weapons

[gray dove]

It feels like youre suggesting a Warlock style spell slot prog

[hollow needle]

no?

but
i now see the problem

[gray dove]

Yeah

Bookkeeping with this class is hell

More specifically with the breaking

[hollow needle]

cuz you can still cast 1st level spells when you have 2nd level spell slots

[hollow needle]

ok another idea to solvent that

make different weapons depending on the spell level

it'll be easier to identify that swords are 1st level spell slots, axes are 2nd level spell slots, hammers are 3rd level spell slots etc, this are examples

this ties back to my suggestion to have stat blocks

[gray dove]

Yeah but that inhibits on the ability to choose what they appear as

The idea is that its the weapon you trained most in

[hollow needle]

flavour is free

[gray dove]

Yeah but what u suggested was exact mechanical things that should be flavoring

[hollow needle]

what i mean is
a first level spell slot weapon should be weaker than a 3rd level spell slot

[gray dove]

Yea ik

Thats why im adding a thing where every spell slot above 1st expended to summon a weapon damage increases by 1d6

[hollow needle]

that's not in the current version is it?

[gray dove]

I added it in text like 20 mins ago 😅

[hollow needle]

f5 ah, i see

[gray dove]

Lols

[hollow needle]

this is really a lot of bookeeping tho, and for theatre of the mind games feel almost impossible not to forget what spell slot each weapon is

[gray dove]

Yeahhhh and im a theatre of the mind dm 😅

[hollow needle]

good luck playtesting this lol

[gray dove]

Its gonna be an adventure

[gray dove]

Did u see any real problems with the v1 tho?

Beyond the subclasses being too focused

[hollow needle]

i thought v1 was the OLD battlemage

[gray dove]

Nonono

V1 is revised Battlemage

With shortened class features and more versatile momentum dice

[serene robin]

Ok, finally looking this over, I'll start with a skim

first... why don't they have simple weapon prof? Only martial?

[gray dove]

Theyre a martial class in lore

[serene robin]

So, their 1st level is... kinda stacked?

At-Will they can summon two weapons to each deal 1d6+CHA force damage on top of their normal attack (due to at will, they can spam BA every turn to resummon them to ensure they are always at max HP and positioned correctly)

They get unarmored defense with no DEX requirement (nobody has this)

They get casting (4 cantrips? Or 3? Table and feature disagree)

[gray dove]

Theyre basically a martial who got cursed with magic

[serene robin]

literally every class that gets martial prof also gets simple weapon prof. They also can't use the light crossbow they get in their starting equip without it (light crossbow is simple, not martial)

[gray dove]

Yeah in the V2 im planning on changing it to Dex and Cha instead of Con and Cha,
Secondly the table is the correct thing, i gotta fix the text XD

[gray dove]

Really???

Oops

Lmfao

Ill fix that asap

[serene robin]

the Arcane Weaponry is a bit too stacked imo, considering they could totally just abandon any martial ability scores and go SAD on charisma to rely on the weapon damage and still be beyond paladin damage on average, and have spell slots ready to use on other things

maybe if the damage didn't add CHA it would be a bit less of a shoe in? I'm not sure

[gray dove]

Yeah im trying to revise the weaponry a bit more to remove the SAD ness of it

[gray dove]

“You can summon Arcane Weaponry for free as a bonus action once per short rest, after this you must expend a spell slot of 1st Level or higher to summon them again; each spell slot expended summons one Arcane Weapon.”

Hows that in regards to fixing its spammability

[serene robin]

hmm, lemme think. So the closest thing to this imo would be... sneak attack

assuming a +3 CHA and the standard 65% hit chance, each summoned weapon would be doing a little less than a d8's worth of damage

so the feature gives you 8.5 damage per turn

[gray dove]

It used to be way more xD

I used to have it at d10+cha

[serene robin]

dear god

[gray dove]

Yeah it was helped balanced by a heavy optimizing server

[serene robin]

SA adds 2d6 damage at level 1, which when adjusted for hit chance (WITH advantage on the attack assumed), that's a little over 6 damage per turn

given, SA also has requirements one must fulfill to get it

however, this feature has

• more consistent damage (adds mods)
• does force damage
• can split damage across targets if you want
• has reach
• no special requirements

oh man I didn't realize, you gave them the most powerful cantrip in the game, the truest of strikes. Balance is out the window now ||/j||

[gray dove]

[gray dove]

THE TRUEST OF STRIKES

[gray dove]

Also technically u still have to BA summon them which is a semi requirement? /lh /hj

[serene robin]

Ok so actual suggestion, I'd personally say if you made it one summon and BA only, it could still be at will

at that point you compare yourself to monk, who gets a free BA attack every turn too as long as they attack

AKA: It doesn't attack when you attack. It attacks as a BA, but you have to attack as your action to trigger it

since this guy is a caster, maybe it can be expanded to "if you attack or cast a spell" etc

[gray dove]

That feels wrong tho?
Ik i gotta make compromises but i just prefer the idea that they attack at once. Or at least that it has to be 2 minimum

[serene robin]

I could see that.. hmm

[gray dove]

Yeah

[serene robin]

so if this class doesn't use it's BA for much, you could prob get away with auto-attack still

as the action economy would be the same

but I'd still recommend one weapon

[gray dove]

Tbf

[serene robin]

as making the weapons have more requirements doesn't feel great

[gray dove]

They cant attack with them on turns they summon the weapons

Think like Summoning Sickness in MTG

[serene robin]

why not? It's a BA to summon them

nothing in the class says it can't be immediately used

[gray dove]

It was to compensate for the free attack/attacks with u

[gray dove]

I think that was another casualty of the great Battlemage cut

[serene robin]

I'd personally avoid that, not because it wouldn't be a good nerf, but just because it would feel kinda bad

like, imagine if rogue had to wait a turn to SA

you wanna be a battlemage, not wait to be one

[gray dove]

Yeahhhh that was also my worry

[serene robin]

summon weapons, then they just get hit with a fireball and bam, wasted turn

[gray dove]

I had to experience that firsthand when i was playtesting the og Sorcerer Battlemage

[serene robin]

though honestly, I'd remove the HP from these weapons, just make them like Spiritual Weapons from the cleric

[gray dove]

It was physically painful

[serene robin]

giving them HP makes a lotta questions that you really don't wanna answer

[gray dove]

They have HP for other class features n such

Interposing/damage reduction, arcane burst, etc

[serene robin]

I could see interposition working fine with weapons having no hp

[gray dove]

Yeah theyd just break after

But Arcane Burst is reliant on them having HP

[serene robin]

instead of the weapon "tanking" the hit, you could flavor it as the weapon "parrying" the attack

no HP required

looking for arcane burst....

ah

What if you could blow up your weapons at will?

which is a question I never thought I'd ever type

[gray dove]

Lmfao

[gray dove]

Too spammable was the problem

[serene robin]

make it 1/sr?

or remove the weapon from play?

aka can't be resummoned for a while

[gray dove]

Well yeah but

The problem

Is that

Firstly subclasss weaponry has various HP related mechanics (the Shield absorbs damage from those who its around)

And secondly, you only get two of them for free

The rest u expend spell slots on

[serene robin]

though what's to stop the shield from just absorbing damage and being a chad like that?

[gray dove]

Its not gonna be fun if u summon it only for an ally to immediately get attacked and it get destroyed

[gray dove]

Because thats too good xD

[serene robin]

is it?

[gray dove]

Thats just flat damage reduction

Which is ALOT better than youd think from experience and from what others here have said for other things

[craggy whale]

Rachayz | Making a New Dawn

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[serene robin]

😔

[gray dove]

Pff

[serene robin]

but uh, yah Aura of Warding comes to talk

[gray dove]

Warding is resistance to mag damage

[serene robin]

resistance to all spell damage for you and allies within 10 feet. Forever

[gray dove]

Iirc

Yeah thats diff from base damage redux

[serene robin]

depends on the radius

[gray dove]

Not really

Say u take 20 damage from fireball

Warding would halve that to 10

While the shield could absorb 3d6 of it

[serene robin]

hmm, what if the shield had charges?

[gray dove]

Maxing at reducing it to 2 and avg of about 9 or 10

Thats just making it even more complicated

[serene robin]

like, 5 charges, you can expend any number to absorb like, 1d6 per charge

[gray dove]

HP is the easiest way for it to not be broken

[serene robin]

I just fear that making them super easy to break

and if they are not easy to break, it could be broken

[gray dove]

They have hp equal to 2 times battlemage level lol

[serene robin]

also, having to track HP for two more "creatures" per battle can be... not fun

[gray dove]

Thats rather easy

[serene robin]

sword 1 took 5 damage, sword 2 took 8 damage, I took 12 damage....

[gray dove]

Yeah bookkeeping and the battlemage is hell

[serene robin]

hence my recommendation for removing HP

you'd prob have to rebalance a few things like shield or such, but it would reduce complexity overall imo

[gray dove]

Yeah but id have to rework way more stuff which makes it even more dirficult

[gray dove]

Debatable

[serene robin]

and let the player be a bit more free to do stuff

[gray dove]

Cause instead of tracking HP

U have to track charges

And which one hasnt used them

[serene robin]

only on the shield thus far, though idk what the other subs do

[gray dove]

Have u read em?

😅

Itd be easier to understand if u did

[serene robin]

nope, going through the class one level at a time rn lol

first 3 levels are big

[gray dove]

Lols

Yeahhhh

[serene robin]

Holy **** you gave the d10 damage to a subclass?

monk is in tears right now

[gray dove]

Yeah but iirc they have lower AC and speed

[serene robin]

If the target already has Temporary Hit Points this replaces it, and if they would gain Temporary Hit Points from another source it is replaced.
temp hp always replaces other temp hp, you don't need to include this

[gray dove]

Ah ok

Whats that from?

XD

[serene robin]

depends how you nerf the summoning

[serene robin]

arcane protection

[gray dove]

Lols

OH WAIT U MEAN UR GOING THRU EACH class and SUBCLASS LEVEL BY LEVEL

I misunderstood xD

[serene robin]

where's this feature btw? I'm looking through the guardian sub who gets the shield and I don't see this? Maybe I'm blind?

[gray dove]

That may have been smth that changed during the Great Reduction

Its so hard to track

[serene robin]

lol

[gray dove]

So much has changed

[serene robin]

hey, if it's gone then removing HP from the weapons just got so much easier 😉

[gray dove]

Stfu 😭

With the V2 you’ll already have loads more to track in addition to HP tbf

Dont even read V2 yet tho

Its heavy wip

[serene robin]

I C

[gray dove]

Lols

V2 is introducing a whole new hard to track casting mechanic xD

So im ignoring it as long as i can

[serene robin]

... why?

[gray dove]

Because their casting is fucked

And Izzy suggested it and i thought it was cool

Its a new mechanic created for thematic/lore reasons

Not for ease of use

Unfortunately

[serene robin]

I will note, my preferred method of brewing is "simple and flavorful"

[gray dove]

Im still hoping i can salvage the V1 tho so i dont have to make the whole new mechanic

[serene robin]

so I have... opinions that probably contradict that

[gray dove]

Basically the reason for it was

Due to battlemage’s magic being a result of a curse

They couldnt really control it good/it was extremely unstable

And could only control it in the form of construct like weaponry

However

[serene robin]

I am mostly concerned because the first word you chose to explain the new system is "hard to track"

[gray dove]

They could “break” these weapons and release their arcane energy to cast spells

[serene robin]

not like, "novel", "interesting", or "useful"

but difficult, annoying, cumbersome...?

[gray dove]

Yeah the problem is youd have to track which weapon was cast at which level so u know which u can break to cast certain spells from where

As me and Arco were worried abt earlier in a previous discussion in here

[serene robin]

do you think that is worth it?

homebrew classes already start a leg down because people will be unwilling to try/read it the longer/more complex they are

they are big

[gray dove]

Not really xD, but it is a really interesting mechanic i wanna try to use in some way

Tho

Tbf

U also have to do that with the current class progression

Because u gotta expend spell slots to cast weaponry even in V1

But you wouldnt need to worry abt that unless i did wanna implement a thing that lets them break to cast

Or maybe i could just go by number of weaponry

Omg wait i could just do instead of increased damage for each level cast, that it increases the number summoned

Tho that doesnt fix the V2 casting debacle

Which is in general, that youd have to BA to summon the weapons then main action to cast a spell if u wanted to do it on the same turn

So it takes your full turn to do what would normally cost just an action

Tho i was thinking maybe i could add in like a DM note for if u expend weapons you summoned on the same turn to cast a spell u can cast that spell as a part of the same action as summoning the weapons

[serene robin]

before I go and start doing irl work, I'll leave one last note of advice that I like to follow (though you don't have to);

Restrictions are not as fun as they sound 95% of the time. Let players ball as long as they don't break everything

[gray dove]

Yeah nah i feel the same

Just hard to balance shit and fit wirh both mechanics and theme

[serene robin]

yah... the class conundrum

absolute freedom is quite restrictive

[gray dove]

Yeah

Weirdly

[gray dove]

These r all the spells ive made so far

@rose cairn

Exactly 50 spells

[rose cairn]

but na, Ill check it out later xD

[gray dove]

Lmfao

[hollow needle]

wooooow phoenix doesnt need to make appointment?

[rose cairn]

I didn't specify when

also, to be fair, I didn't specify which 27th either

[gray dove]

@fallen vault im making the last Pact of the Vial invocation

Calling it Shattered Vial

And i want it to be like a

Break in case of emergency thing

But im not sure how to so it

[serene robin]

Anytime the word Shattering is said I appear

[hollow needle]

if break, cast wish, you cant use for another year

[gray dove]

TWELFTH LEVEL ARCO

[hollow needle]

aha

[gray dove]

[hollow needle]

Phoenix, how would you feel if i told you I am thinking of somewhat copying your strange passion feature to "recover spell levels of a slot" or however you word it

[gray dove]

Shattered Vial

Prerequisite: Pact of the Vial, 12th Level

As a reaction to taking damage, you can throw your pact vial towards the ground and break it, or simply crush it in your own hand. When you do so you regain a number of Hit Points equal to your Warlock level and as a part of the reaction can cast a spell without expending a spell slot targeting the creature that dealt you the triggering damage.

When you use this ability you must perform the same ceremony that you would perform had you lost the vial, until you do you cannot activate any of your Pact of the Vial abilities or invocations.

[gray dove]

Lmfao go for it

[serene robin]

Take it a level higher, make a spell that recovers spell slots

[hollow needle]

[gray dove]

Wait

Im stealing that

[serene robin]

😉

[hollow needle]

no its broken, go to my forum and read

[gray dove]

Arcane Reduction

4th-Level Transmutation

Casting Time: :: 1 Bonus Action
Components: :: V,S
Duration: :: Instantaneous
Range: :: Self
Classes: :: Artificer, Wizard
You bend the very rules of magic to your will, when you cast this spell you can choose to regain levels of spell slots that have a sum equal to one less than the level this spell was cast at. I.E. if you cast this spell at 4th Level you can regain three 1st Level spell slots, one 1st and one 2nd level spell slot, or 3rd Level spell slot.

At Higher Levels: For every spell slot above 4th Level expended to cast this spell, the proposed sum of the reduced spell slots increases by one.

I forgot what else i need for spells xDp

[hollow needle]

range

[gray dove]

@serene robin what do u think?

[serene robin]

Too perfectly efficient

One level lower imo

[gray dove]

Lmfao smart smart

[serene robin]

That's how I did mine at least

Though it could be equal, maybe there was something wrong with it when sorc or lock was involved? Can't remember

[gray dove]

Fixed it and added upcasting

I wasnt sure how to phrase the upcasting portion

[serene robin]

Ah right, I think with the one I had I actually made it an attack

Oh hit you get partial refund

[gray dove]

Cause its like— for every spell slot above 4th level expended to cast this spell, its spell level increases by one.

[gray dove]

Wdym

Ohhhh

Ok

[serene robin]

Prob best for yours to be different

Maybe u can make it perfectly efficient tbh

[gray dove]

Yeah

[gray dove]

U sure?

I worry thatd be yknow— too efficient

[serene robin]

A 3rd level slot is prob worth more than a 2nd and 1st 9/10 times

Though the higher level ones...

8th vs two 4ths... might take the 4ths tbh

7th/8th slots can sometimes be duds for some builds/classes

[gray dove]

The lack of perfect efficiency is probably just smarter

[serene robin]

Up to u

[hollow needle]

this basically makes spell slots spell points of sort

next make a spell that combines spell slots

[gray dove]

How would that even work

[hollow needle]

hmmm
cast spell at 3rd level
Choose your spells lots and combine, ex 2 4th level spell slots make 1 8th level spell slot

i would make this a 1st level spell tho

[quartz tinsel]

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnearthedArcana/comments/13ri4p6/kibbles_spellblade_v11_blend_arcane_and_martial/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1

[hollow needle]

saves this

[gray dove]

Ooo interesting

[wet hare]

I don't really like Kibbles TBH

[gray dove]

Tho if im reading it right the Aegis is the only construct-like thing there?

[gray dove]

Why?

[wet hare]

i recall his Warden is insanely broken

[gray dove]

Idk who kibbles is tbf

Sidenote— I may move an Aegis option to base class as well (that was originally one of their features for arcane armor but it got moved into subclass at some point)

[wet hare]

there are 3 really big homebrewers (that i know of):

1. KibblesTasty: does a lot of new classes, but also did a ton of spells and such. I don't really like him, but he is popular, and his stuff is cool.
2. LaserLlama: the biggest one. He redesigns base classes, but he also does a few other things. Feels very vanilla and down to earth, in a good way.
3. Dragonshard: my personal favorite. He is less known, but he only does custom classes, and they are all really good.

[gray dove]

Interesting

[quartz tinsel]

I linked it because it’s a well done (imo) gish type

maybe you could draw inspiration or balance choices from it

I think he does good work personally

[gray dove]

What are some interesting features yall think a construct maker should have?

I already have the weaponry, walls n shit, but idk what other cool stuff I could do with it

[hollow needle]

Fortnite style building

and this isnt joking

[gray dove]

^^^

[gray dove]

As i said they can already make structures

[hollow needle]

can they make a column under themselves and propelled themselves to jump higher?

Instead of Fortnite I should’ve said
Tears of Kingdom kinda stuff

[gray dove]

Never played TOTK

[gray dove]

How would that even work?

[hollow needle]

me either, but it looks dope as hell

[hollow needle]

oh idk i’m just giving ideas not disigning features

[gray dove]

Lols

[gray dove]

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Dn1Ir11ts8Ci

The majority of the spells for this compendium excluding the cryo spells atm

[gray dove]

Ok so

I certainly need to revamp the final two abilities for the Battlemage

They’re a bit unwieldy and don’t make too much sense for a primarily arcane construct wielding martial

However im not quite sure what kinda stuff i could make it do xD

[hollow needle]

share class document link so far plz?

[gray dove]

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/UfeRUQfBIAXZ

[hollow needle]

what typo of spellcasting progression is this?

[gray dove]

2/3

[hollow needle]

Hit Points equal to 2 times your Battlemage Level.
only 2 HP at level 1?

[gray dove]

Yeah

They are meant to be easily destroyed

Because

They take an attack off yourself or an ally

Thats really good

[hollow needle]

I remember someone mentioning once that AC shouldnt take Con into consideration, and instead it should rely on Dex as per standard. Idk if youve gone over that already

[gray dove]

FRICK i coulda sworn i fizex that

[gray dove]

Oh ye i have i forgot i hadnt changed it on the initial

[hollow needle]

I'm assuming the battlemage works like the Sorcerer with known spells instead of prepared spells right?

[gray dove]

Ye known

[hollow needle]

so
If lore wise the Battlemage gets magic from studying, why is it a Charisma caster?

[gray dove]

That lore is old af

XD

I used to mull over having it be an Int caster but i changed it and such

So i gotta fix that lore

[hollow needle]

you dont get anything else at 3rd level

[gray dove]

Basically:
Battlemages are martials who have been cursed with unstable magic, which they can better control and manipulate through making it take form of their most used weapon as an arcane force construct

[gray dove]

Tyty

[hollow needle]

that makes sense

why'd you make the momentum dice d8s those are the worst dice ever

[gray dove]

Why are they the worst? XD

[hollow needle]

idk i just dont like em

[gray dove]

Lmfao

[hollow needle]

wouldnt it have been easier to just roll 1 die and use the result for the table?

[gray dove]

I was worried ignoring resistances for 1 momentum dice was too good

[hollow needle]

idk if this is just poor wording, but this feels like two many requirements to use an ability

[hollow needle]

i think is fine

[gray dove]

Its two conditions

Theyve moved and theyre within 30 feet

[hollow needle]

hmmm
feels like it could be said simple
"When a creature within 30 feet of you moves you may attack it with a newly summoned Arcane Weapon that disappears after the attack"

[gray dove]

Newly summoned doesnt make sense

That sounds like itd require you to have summoned it already

Whereas you are summoning it as the ability

[hollow needle]

"When a creature within 30 feet of you moves you may attack it with an Arcane Weapon that disappears after the attack" ? idk how would you word a weapon that appears and then disappears
Newly summoned to me means that it is summoned as part of the ability

since it is New compared to other summoned weapons

still thats not the point

[gray dove]

Debatable

But ok

[hollow needle]

like this whole thing isnt necesary

you are already saying it will attack, for it to attack it has to be summoned in range to attack

[gray dove]

Yeah i removed that rq

[hollow needle]

wait, this works on Arcane Weapons right?

not on regular wielded weapons?

[gray dove]

Yes the arcane weapons

As it says the Arcane Armory feature

[hollow needle]

yea but this, makes it sound like is for any weapon

[gray dove]

Im now realizing that one: that last ability is meant to be a separate thing; and two: Thats way too cheap to do for one minute

[hollow needle]

so considering that the class gets to only 6th level, and it only gets like 2 spell slots, I say let it be

I just realized that ive been reading the V1 Battlemage'

[gray dove]

XD

Nono thats alr lols

I mostly want feedback on it

See what stuff i could carry over

Im also not even sure if ill go with the V2 style

[hollow needle]

well
This whole thing is too videogamey
if there is a shockwave of shrapnels I think everyone, allies or not, should have to roll the same way and take the same damage

otherwise this is infringing on careful metamagic

also, it cleans up the feature

[gray dove]

Quick explanation

They can already telepathically control and manipulate their weapons

That extends to the shrapnel

Basically telepathically moving it out of the way of allies

Also careful metamagic itself is infringing on an evocation wiz’s abilities

[hollow needle]

I feel like telepathically controlling so many shrapnels is too demanding
and then, why dont just push them entirely out of the ways of allies? dont make them roll at all

[hollow needle]

metamagics is based class, evocation wizard is a subclass

so, the other way around in any case

[gray dove]

Regardless, it also just gives them advantage

Oh wait xD

It also gives evasion for it

Nvm im removing the evasion part

[hollow needle]

your shield still gives you AC boosts right?

[gray dove]

Ye

[hollow needle]

if so
This feature breaks bounded accuracy, giving you an AC of 27, 25 already being the limit

[gray dove]

Yeah

That and the last feature r the main worries

[hollow needle]

this im assuming has to change to spell slots

[gray dove]

Ye

There was an og thing where u expended momentum dice instead to summon stronger

Now its spell slots to summon more

[hollow needle]

i remember yea

so it says dice in plural, that means you can expend more than 2d8?

also I can't really gauche the power of this feature bc the whole idea of recovering levels of spell slots is too abstract for me lol

V2 seems fine, I would like to see the Unstable Magics table

[gray dove]

Yeah

[hollow needle]

well, thats a lot, i would force 1d8 so its always lower than the free use of the feature

[gray dove]

Tru

[gray dove]

@dire warren

Yes i have a separate channel for reworks vs my own compendium

@shadow eagle https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/TioHztr3YlCZ

The first few pages are the races ive made

Rhen it transitions to subclasses

[gray dove]

Also Faye here is the battlemage link if u did wanna check it

The battlemage on the World doc is hella outdated

These r the two races ik are grecian if u dont wanna scroll thru, theres also the Phoenix on the doc

[shadow eagle]

Poggers

I'll read these later

[gray dove]

Sixk

[shadow eagle]

Have these been ran through detect balance? Just curious because I'm not the best at giving racial balance feedback.

I do like the subraces stuff though

[gray dove]

Not yet lols

[shadow eagle]

The Naga subraces have two unique abilities each which is nice, a more impactful difference between subraces compared to official races. Again, I dunno if these subraces are balanced against each other or if these are balanced against other official races, but these do seem like they can play differently than other races. Wording can probably be improved but Aquatic does have the fun constricting thing.

The Siren having Cha AC feels ripe for making SAD builds. Now even Hexblades can forgo medium armor! Then again, Siren Call doesn't seem too powerful so I dunno, really

[gray dove]

Just pure estimation i think at least with Celestial naga itd be around 23-29 on db

[gray dove]

Yeahhhh, basically the lore reason for Cha AC is the fact that sirens have like a naturally charismatic aura which makes others desire them aka not want to hurt them

Im horrified at how much ur typing

[shadow eagle]

I think the 1 Hour wings per short rest is already really good. I'd probably give it halfway between Gem Flight (1 min flight 1/lr) and unrestricted 30 ft flight. By itself that's around 16-20 points. Resistance is 3, Shape-Changing would prolly be around a 2, 13+Con armor is 4, and standard ASI is 12. This is actually a lot

Nah I was cross referencing a bunch of things

It was a lot but most of the time I wasn't actually typing, ahahah

[gray dove]

How is standard asi 12???

Isnt standard asi like 3

HOT DAMN IT IS 12

Oh god in that case naga is so overtuned

Id estimate it to be abt like— maybe 30?

[shadow eagle]

I'm sorry to break it to you /lh

[gray dove]

Well shietttt

[shadow eagle]

Honestly my solution is usually just putting things too strong into racial feats

[gray dove]

Yeah i do gotta make those too

Maybe ill move the flying to a racial feat?

[shadow eagle]

Diwata (another race I'm making) is sometimes depicted with wings, but I don't deem it important enough to the fantasy that I simply made a limited flight feat for them

Just for reference: Gem Flight (Gem Dragonborn feature rated a 12) is 1/lr 1 min duration flight.

Honestly if you could make Celestial Naga into that, it'd be just slightly strong

Then you could make a feat improve upon it

You can also make the armor into 12+Con, which is the standard for Loxodon (I think the only race with Con unarmored def?)

Those two changes make Celestial Naga about balanced

[gray dove]

Sick sick

[shadow eagle]

Imma check with Sky Siren too

[gray dove]

Oh shit wait

I forgot abt the immunity to poison/ed for naga

[shadow eagle]

Armor restricted flight - 16
2/1 ASI - 12
13+Cha AC - 4
Spellcasting - 5

[shadow eagle]

Well I forgot that too, so... Oof

[gray dove]

Apx 37

[shadow eagle]

You can reduce it to 35 if you make it 12+Cha and only one free Charm Person. Arguably the spells are so niche that I can rate it a 3 if only one free casting.

So 34, which is stronger than the usual goal of 31 but isn't too bad. Imo it feels like it's not as flexible as Owlin, Aarakockra, or Fairy that it's fine to score as much as those flight races.

Well, Fairy is 38 and everyone knows it's kinda too strong so we don't wanna reach that level

[gray dove]

WAIT THE GOAL IS 31???

I thought it was 24 😭😭😭

[shadow eagle]

Sea Siren:
2/1 ASI - 12
13+Cha AC - 4
Spellcasting - 5
Swim speed - 2
Amphibious - 2
Darkvision - 2
Weapon penalties - -2

Maybe we're using different detect balances, ahahah. I have a 2022 one.

Must be why you were surprised, I forgot there's like a bunch of competing standards. That one was my b (but the one I'm using should still be reliable enough).

[gray dove]

Idk when mine is from

[gray dove]

Oh? Thats only 25?

That feels— wrong

[shadow eagle]

Even without the penalty to weapons, swimming speed isn't that valuable

Compared to flight anyway

[gray dove]

True

I just thought DV, Swim, and Amph would equate it

[shadow eagle]

Armor restricted flight is worth 16

[gray dove]

Hawt dayumn

[shadow eagle]

DV, Swim, and Amph are 2-3 each I think

[gray dove]

I feel like flying has too much weight to it DB wise

[shadow eagle]

Well, yeah. Flight allows basically ignoring a lot of terrain, immunity to most melee attacks, and you have out of combat utility.

[gray dove]

Ah—

Yeah i—

I forgot abt that part

[shadow eagle]

I think 16 is actually appropriately rated

[gray dove]

Maybe its just cause none of my dm’s have ever really presented any situations that flying would be needed

Or maybe its just me being dumb xD

[shadow eagle]

There are so many more times where the ceiling is at least 15 feet high vs how many times water is large enough for swimming to matter

Flight is more of a munchkinning issue. If you don't exploit it, it's not that strong. If you can exploit it? It forces the DM to make most encounters in rooms less than 15 feet tall.

[gray dove]

Or throw flying/spellcasters at u

Ironically my dude with a fly speed is a martial sorcerer (Battlemage Sorc, yes the full class used to be a Sorc subclass) so it doesnt do him too much good

[shadow eagle]

Grounded races are equally vulnerable to flying enemies and spellcasters unless they specifically target flying PCs too... which means that the DM still has to design encounters around it

[gray dove]

I mean technically he doesnt have to be in melee but hes also a hexblade

[shadow eagle]

Flying melee is actually fine, imo

Flying archers and spellcasters is where munchkinning can occur

[gray dove]

Yeah

Cause like

They still have to go down and be in range

[shadow eagle]

Yep

[gray dove]

However Caim, my character, could in a pinch due so

[shadow eagle]

Although, I will say, aerial dogfights between flying archers and casters are fucking cool

[gray dove]

As hes a Sor/Lock and the Battlemage subclass stuff can be used at range

[shadow eagle]

But it requires combat to have flight on both sides

[gray dove]

FUCKING REAL I WANNA HAVE ONE SO BAD

I made the mistake of givint one of my players a Broom of Flying

And they were a wizard

Evocation specifically

[shadow eagle]

Simulation of WWI era bombing runs

[gray dove]

SO REAL

PAINFULLY REAL

[shadow eagle]

Anyway getting a bit too off topic, flight is strong. It heavily limits races with flight as that means they can't have too strong other features

[gray dove]

lmfao

Ok so

How should i buff sea sirens

more spellcasting? But water themed? /hj

[shadow eagle]

As much as I like Tengus, I dunno if I'd wanna play one in DnD because either they can't fly or they won't have any actual cool features aside from flight.

[hollow needle]

shouldnt it be song themed?

[gray dove]

Sea siren

Both sirens already have songs, its base race

[shadow eagle]

You could add cold resistance and possibly profs in Persuasion or Deception? That's a +3 and a +2 respectively. Removing the weapon penalty and you have a race worth around 32.

Note that I did suggest you nerf the natural armor and make it one free casting of Charm per lr, so it goes back down to ~29

[gray dove]

I feel like those profs would be base race

[gray dove]

Ye thats what i doin 😅

[shadow eagle]

The issue is the Sky Siren taking up too much budget in the subrace

Still, cold resistance should balance out the -3 the base race gets

[gray dove]

Yeahhhh

[gray dove]

I may removethe weapon thing

Bc i mean it makes sense visually but idk

Due to the webs connecting their fingers making it hard to manipulate them wekk

[shadow eagle]

I wouldn't sacrifice too much mechanics for flavor unless you can compensate in some other way

[gray dove]

Fair fair

Ok i remove 😅

[shadow eagle]

Flight with non-Medium or Heavy Armor = 16
+2/+1 ASI = 12
Resistance = 2-4 (fire and poison are more common so they're worth 4)
Skill Prof = 2 (3 if you have choices)
Cantrip = 2
L1 spell 1/lr @ 3rd level = 2
L2 spell 1/lr @ 5th level = 2
Swim or Climb speed = 2

Just some of the common racial features and how much the DB I'm using rates them. 24-27 was the standard before but I think with newer races 30-32 is probably fine.

[gray dove]

I thought restricted was No heavy?

[shadow eagle]

Restricted also restricts medium

[dire warren]

Reading it rn

I have a question about an odd design choice @gray dove

[gray dove]

What design choice?

[dire warren]

Why do subclasses come before the momentum die?

[gray dove]

They dont

?

[dire warren]

Oh, so these are more like

[gray dove]

Oh u mean like order wize

[dire warren]

options within the class?

[gray dove]

What?

Im so confused what youre reffering to

[gray dove]

Yeah

Those are the subclass options

And because u get it at 2nd level

Momentum dice u get 3rd

How is that a weird design choice?

[dire warren]

Imo, momentum die seems to be a core feature and I find it weird for it to come after subclasses order-wise

Not really a bad thing, I just found it odd

[gray dove]

It is

It is a core feature

[dire warren]

Usually the idea (i think) is for the core aspects of the class to come before subclasses

ie, artificer infusions before subclass

[gray dove]

?

It just lists the options tho

Ohhhh wait u mean level wise

[dire warren]

Ye

[gray dove]

Ohhhh

Well sorcs get metamagic after they get subclasses

Warlocks get pact boons after they get subclasses

[dire warren]

Ye, I also consider it weird in those classes

But, I'll keep reading

[gray dove]

👍

[dire warren]

Btw the image moving scared tf outta me

[gray dove]

That reminds me i need to rework the subclasses bonusspells to fit the new progression

(It used to be full caster now its 2/3)

[dire warren]

For arcane inertia, you're increasing the movement speed by 5 + 1d8 feet?

[gray dove]

Ye

For 1 minute

[dire warren]

That seems rather weak¿

max 13 feet

[hollow needle]

and odd

[dire warren]

which would just be 10 feet

[gray dove]

Ah

I

Didnt realize that

XD

[hollow needle]

you meant 5 x 1d8?

[gray dove]

No it says plus

But i think i meant times

[hollow needle]

yea thats what i meant

[gray dove]

Yeah

I think so

[hollow needle]

#weshouldstartusing*fortimesinsteadofx

[gray dove]

REAL

[dire warren]

but * is formatting in html

[gray dove]

That too

[hollow needle]

html should learn to do better

[dire warren]

We should take this to hb issues

[hollow needle]

also i think 5 * 1d8 wouldnt mess up anything on html?

[hollow needle]

idk I use gmbinder, its easier

[gray dove]

Lmfao

[dire warren]

It does

it starts a cursive

[hollow needle]

I also agree its a weird choice, bc if momentum dice came first you could have the subclass have some extra uses of momentum dice on its first level

[dire warren]

so, the next time you use * it becomes italicized

[hollow needle]

i believe that because there is a space after the * it wouldnt do it, but im not sure

[gray dove]

They get momentum dice integration for the 6th level

[hollow needle]

I think is neater that the core class mechanic, momentum dice, is also part of the core of the subclasses

so every subclass could have some interaction with momentum dice in their very first level ie 3rd

[gray dove]

Fair fair

[dire warren]

Momentum dice is a lot

I'd suggest you have to choose between the options

[gray dove]

Yeah thats also what i was thinking

[dire warren]

reduces the stress of remembering every feature and increases replayability

[gray dove]

Akin to Maneuvers and Metamagic

[dire warren]

ye

Hot take

some features should be spells like in one dnd

it makes everything way easier

And makes balancing quicker imo

Spellforge weapons for the v2 battlemage is an example of how trying to make spell-like features can get a bit too wordy

And you can cast it with spell slots

[hollow needle]

I have suggested making a statblock for the weapons

[dire warren]

Ye but, if you gonna do that

might as well just make it a spell

[hollow needle]

Fair fair

[dire warren]

@gray dove read the base class and the v2 class

the class looks fine to my non-expert eyes, if I had to guess it would probably fall towards being a bit strong

But I can say that I'm not a fan of dead levels

I know that the idea is that you get stronger spells and you can't really budget adding more abilities

but IMO, it doesn't feel too good in actual play¿

unless the spells they get are like, really good

[gray dove]

Wdym dead levels

Most classes spread out after level 7 or 8

[dire warren]

Levels where you get no features

And only a higher spell slot

I get in on a design standpoint

[gray dove]

I thought so

[rose cairn]

usually, technically unlocking the new spell level and the spells learned with it are the features

[dire warren]

It's all about psychology

give them a ribbon

It feels better imo

[gray dove]

Theres only 4 blank, and they get new spell levels at each of those

Or well besides 17th level

[gray dove]

And 9th

[dire warren]

Ye

my point

[rose cairn]

lemme get the sign

[gray dove]

Its 2/3 caster

Gets spellcasting level 1

[rose cairn]

(Iunno how flat helpful it is, but I like this set of tables, theyre fun xD)

[dire warren]

I'm just saying, dead levels can be a problem because they kill the hype of leveling up

unless they get good spells

[hollow needle]

we know you love ur tables

[dire warren]

and the spell list isn't finished yet

[rose cairn]

That's not 2/3

[gray dove]

Thats

Not what mine looks like

[hollow needle]

I told you it was weird casting progression

[gray dove]

Why does mine look diff—

[gray dove]

Oh

[rose cairn]

no - that's what 2/3 looks like

[gray dove]

Urs goes to 7th

[rose cairn]

xD

[gray dove]

^^^

Correct 2/3 is 6th

[rose cairn]

1/X casting is level / amount rounded up

[hollow needle]

Brother what poor Warlock

[gray dove]

@rose cairn mine would look like yours but i dont give them 7th, i feel like giving them 7th level spells is too much

It would also be a third time they get new level spells when they get asi’s

Which just being at twice is a problem

[rose cairn]

you've also given 2 6th, 3 5th and 3 4th.
I'm not sure what the progression you've made would be called, but it's certainly not 2/3...

It's more like...
partially offset fullcasting capped at 6th?

[gray dove]

Yeah thats basically it xD

Its an altered sorc table tbf

So i kinda just altered it a bit to suit that

Tho im now realizing i missed smth in that regard

[rose cairn]

I mean, sorc is still just fullcaster table ultimately.
I think... so you want it capped at 6th

[gray dove]

Well i altered it as i said

[rose cairn]

wheres my bullshit caster go calculator

[gray dove]

XD

[gray dove]

I capped it at 6th cause its mathematically 2/3 of 9

[gray dove]

Lmfao

How is that 1/1.7 xD

[rose cairn]

2/3 is like, 1/1.5
So 1.7 is kinda halfway between the two

but mostly I just put in numbers till it started adding 7th level slots

at 1.65 it does 7th level at 20

[hollow needle]

can you share this tool?

[rose cairn]

not atm, it's too integrated into my notes file.
Maybe at some point tho

cos it's just, in the middle of this with it all

I could do it seperate, but I cba right now

[hollow needle]

gosh i need an ibuprofen after trying to read this tables

[rose cairn]

but yeah, if you use this, it achieves your goal, and it doesn't overlap with ASI's either

its like a 60% caster

[dire warren]

Every time Ovion appears I have to make a sanity check

[gray dove]

But thats also alot more HB spells to make

XD