SnowWolf's Random Brews | A World of Frost and Fangs

[heady sequoia]

flavor wise I mean

its not like this rogue is neessarily the "I get the jump on enemies" kind. can be played that way, but not necessarily

[slow marten]

could do something like effective invisibility for the first turn, as you're so bright that they can't look at you

but now I kinda want to build an operative who just tosses flashbangs into every room

[heady sequoia]

lol I could move the flashbang down to 13th. I just think the at will flashbang at 3rd would be much

[severe tree]

it would be

but not if it was only on you or one enemy at a time

OR

[heady sequoia]

the end of your turn duration

[slow marten]

it's not even really at will if it's only at the start of combat

[heady sequoia]

could work for that

[severe tree]

something like that

save and they’re immune

[slow marten]

yeah, only you+save seems balanced

[heady sequoia]

the other option is marking them with the Light cantrip (basically an item they hold or something)

but its kinda just... inquisitive 2.0?

[severe tree]

blinding at the start of your turn and until the end of your turn is pretty meh right? let me look up the condition

[slow marten]

also Fairy Lights. But could work as a BA

[heady sequoia]

nah I think thats fine

my problem is more that I wanted this rogue to be basically fighting openly in light

[severe tree]

DA on attacks made, which would only be OAs, advantage on attacks against it

[heady sequoia]

the flashbang is fine, but the fact that hed have to kinda shut off and on the flashbang Light is a little

silly lol

[severe tree]

which would negate the level 3 bonus as it currently stands

[heady sequoia]

and not what im goin for kinda

[severe tree]

and then auto fail sight checks

so you want a rogue that’s always in bright light combat?

[heady sequoia]

the light is what makes their Sneak Attack radiant, so kinda yeah. But im still open to other ways of doing it (like the flashbang, its neat definitely)

just that the flashbang is kinda clunky

and a little silly

though tbf im coming around to its flavor weirdly, like its a pre-smite XD

like glowing your sword before you hit

clunky cause youd have to shut off Light everytime

[severe tree]

to me the core of rogue is not standing toe to toe in the light, it’s slinking back and forth

do you see a thematic way to adjust that?

[heady sequoia]

see I understand that, but I think thats the base rogue

[slow marten]

If you are not surprised at the start of combat, you emit brigth light to a range of 30 feet during the first turn. You are considered invisible to any creature within this light

[heady sequoia]

which is why I wanted to lean into the Light more

because the base rogue is already about Hiding and stealthing

[severe tree]

I guess I’m less worried about the light / dark so much as a d8 in light armor staying in melee

[slow marten]

yeah, but a subclass should expand that, not just contradict it outright

[severe tree]

so I think you can have it fight in the light

but it still needs to dance in and out of combat or it’s going to get munched

[slow marten]

Like, I get making "not your standard Rogue", but it should still use the same base mechanics

[severe tree]

holy or not 🙏🏻

[heady sequoia]

you can hide in bright light

[slow marten]

like, say you want a Pacifist Fighter, so you have them issue orders to allies instead. Then you make the orders replace attacks, so that the subclass still scales with Extra Attack

[heady sequoia]

So the 13th was a regen at first while in Light

but that does come late

[severe tree]

while in bright light, you can attempt to Hide while using the Disengage action from your Cunning Action feature

‘blind’ enemies to your presence

you’re still in the light, but you’re not getting creamed by the ogre

[slow marten]

well, or simply "you can use Hide when in bright light". That's already pretty strong

[heady sequoia]

Hide in plain sight XD

[severe tree]

yeah, that works too

[heady sequoia]

usurp the ranger

[severe tree]

either way you need to lean on the light stuff for defensive purposes

[slow marten]

tbh I think I prefer the flashbang

fits the flavor of a surprise raid, but also makes sense with Rogue in general, and Assassin is weird anyway

[heady sequoia]

I am coming around to the flashbang as mentioned

due to kinda flashing the Light onto your weapon kinda flavor

but the clunkiness is still a little problem

needing to shut it off

[severe tree]

close your eyes for 5 minutes and then turn a flashlight on them when you open, you’re blind as hell for a second

I think you can do it as the first time a target comes into contact they’re blinded for a short time, and then immune for 1 minute or something

so it’s not necessary shutting off as much as acclimating to it

[heady sequoia]

oh I meant shutting it off to continue sneak attacking against them

cause like, if it works just once kinda sad and I'd probably go back to the original flashbang to let everyone get the jump lol

[slow marten]

well that's still advantage on attacks during your first turn, and being partially untargettable. Sounds enough if you ask me

Could have bright light change your sneak attack dice into d8s (or more realistically rerolling 1s)

[severe tree]

looking forward to seeing the next draft! I think leaning on a blind type effect at 3 is the move

[heady sequoia]

@severe tree @slow marten other than the flavor thing, is it balanced?

Just wondering

[severe tree]

probably on the weak side since the 9 feature is more of a niche

reaction to heal takes away possible OA double sneak shenanigans

[heady sequoia]

Hmmm

replaces the heal

[slow marten]

pretty flavorful

[heady sequoia]

the boss fighting this rogue: "put him in DIM LIGHT minions!"

[severe tree]

lots of flavor, might be too strong?

not sure

[heady sequoia]

I was thinking that it was too strong yeah

might do half prof for both?

as a rogue youre typically on light armor so thats 12+dex max, not using a shield usually so with Wis its 22?

[severe tree]

how likely are you to have 20 dex and 16 wis by 13?

I’m just realizing we did similar stuff with light vs dark

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/pbaw74_woZLl

you have a bright light rogue and I have a dim light / darkness paladin

[heady sequoia]

20 dex by 8 and 18 wis by 12 is what I'd assume

or at least what the game assumes

[severe tree]

I thought about it for a while and it’s probably not too strong as is, considering you’re not likely to be leaving melee much and could use the boost

depending on how you adjust the 3rd level feature, that is

[heady sequoia]

For now assuming the 3rd level is the same

Bright light both target and you triggers sneak

[heady sequoia]

The Power Tools Artificer. You want a chainsaw? HE'S GOT A CHAINSAW

[severe tree]

weapons are too much damage, aren’t they?

I like the theme otherwise. is the point of the 9 feature just to add versatility to your options?

[heady sequoia]

Arti upgrade technically. I mean, Artillerist does 1d10 + 2d6 per turn minimum. This does maybe like .5 more with the Int mod but is melee

[severe tree]

that takes up their BA as well though right?

[heady sequoia]

Yeah it does, but youll also be able to spell + that 2d6 BA on your turn

This one cant

[severe tree]

this one can searing smite BA into a big truck of damage after though

if it were me, I think I’d add a neat little effect usable as a BA that does damage and a condition or something , and then normalize the damage of the weapons to 1d10 or something

[heady sequoia]

Fair on that, but its still boost that the arti gets I think. If I gave them normal weapons I dont think itd fit. Armorer gets heavy armor + weapons with alt damage + they can be ranged + have properties that are pretty strong

Idk I kinda like the massive damage weapon as its unique

Might turn down the drill to 2d4 tho

[severe tree]

fair enough! I just see powergamers dipping this at 3 and becoming awesome

hard to balance around those types

[heady sequoia]

Yeah definitely, but why havent they dipped 3 for sneak attack yet?

[heady sequoia]

Btw I was thinking of swapping the smite to Mage Armor, but maybe its too SAD?

Itd be mage armor + shield of faith and still having a 2h chainsaw lol, and might equalize it with armorer too much

[severe tree]

that’s a lot, I agree. also kinda blurs the line between this and armorer

more I read this, the more it’s kinda just neat weapons and not much else. I think you can lean into the tool aspect a little more and even do some more field control stuff

[heady sequoia]

Kinda the point! I moreso want to add some out of combat stuff to the weapons really

[severe tree]

makes sense, I guess I was reading it as power tools over power weapons

[haughty heart]

I saw you say you wanted them to have out-of-combat utility, so what if the Chainblade allowed you to deal double damage to constructs and structures made out of wood and the Drill Spear gave you the ability to move through stone, as if burrowing, but taking a little longer to make it balanced?

[heady sequoia]

Yeah that makes sense for Chainblade, but im not too keen on overlapping with Pole Driver. For Drill Spear, I really dont wanna worsen the burrowing problem

Current status for each weapon

Experimental, but added 2 ranged weaps from Reboomus's suggestion. Locked to 9th to keep the melee focus

[haughty heart]

Out of curiosity, why did you not give the Chainsaw the Siege trait instead of giving the Pole Driver two out-of-combat traits?

[heady sequoia]

It felt more appropriate, mostly cause a Chainsaw doesnt usually cut through harder material than wood, while a pile driver is gonna bash through many things. I can definitely throw Siege on wood to Chainsaw, just thought I go for something different

[heady sequoia]

Gonna throw in the 15th upgrade for all the weapons here as well

Feel free to comment on the weapons! If youre wondering about 9th only having 2 options (enhanced and radiant) I have 1 more option (blacksteel) ready and another 2 that Im gonna post for review here

[severe tree]

pressure washer lmao

[heady sequoia]

Get hosed down boy

[random urchin]

I don't like the name

power tooler is so much better

Power Tooler
Power Tool
Tooler Spells

the rest are fine

[heady sequoia]

I wanted to emphasize that its a weapon first, even if its tool based. But thats a fine name as long as theres no misunderstanding on that

[heady sequoia]

Some Arti infusions I made, partially to let the Power Weaponeer have a few more choices, though I included more that fit with the "custom weapon" theme

I still have one more I think is already balanced, the Blacksteel Weapon patterned after Radiant Weapon

[heady sequoia]

Im thinking whether to bump Defender Weapon up to 18th and make the bonus +3, or have it be 14th as is and it upgrades

Or its strong enough as is

[topaz seal]

I want to look as this because I love new Arti options, but I am having a busy AM at work.

[heady sequoia]

Take thy time

[topaz seal]

These are pretty solid. 👍

Defender Weapon is a pretty cool idea. Resizing weapon gives me images of Cloud's Sword from FFVII 😄

[heady sequoia]

Lel thanks. Do you think theres a better wording or implementation for Resizing or kinda just stuck as is?

[topaz seal]

I think it works as is. 5e doesn't really have weapon size rules other than Light and Heavy/Two handed properties, but your mechanic as written is pretty straightforward.

The only thing you could clarify is once a weapon is Oversized, it cannot be OVER Oversized. I can see someone trying to cheese that.

[heady sequoia]

As written you can only go from oversized to normal

[unique flame]

I love third arm.

It's super flavourful, rewards clever applications and isn't OP.

I'm considering adding it to my game as a magic item somehow.

Reverberating instrument I don't really get? Can artificers cast with an instrument?

Also does the concentration thing happen to the check made as a result of the instrument's damage, or the next one after that?

And as a minor addendum, I think it would be nice to let it deal piercing or slashing damage, too.

Some instruments would feel a lot cooler as hidden blades imo.

I'd feel a little silly whacking someone across the face with a violin.

[topaz seal]

Yeah, but no one would expect it!

[unique flame]

Gloves of the iron fist are cool, but I wonder if maybe the skin colour thing isn't quite doing what you want?

If the idea is that they're concealable, why not just make them be able to go invisible or something?

Because there aren't any clear rules in 5e for not noticing a glove of similar colour to your skin.

Resizing weapon is a very fun concept, but I'm not quite sure I can think of a good use-case.

I'm not sure there's any common situations where you would want to switch between using a finesse or a heavy two handed weapon.

And defender is just a more powerful replicate magic item but for only one time, so yeah, no notes there.

It's good.

[heady sequoia]

Defender isnt a replicate cause its one step down, +2 instead of +3. Not sure if it feels bad like that but being able to switch between damage and defense very cleanly seems like a great benefit

[heady sequoia]

I think I just copied that from somewhere but I gotta double check if im misremembering

[unique flame]

Yeah fair, I just meant it's within base game balance so it's all good lol.

[heady sequoia]

They dont, but I was thinking this would help if you bring one around or you have a bard in the party

Easier to bring around a literal instrument than a weapon

[topaz seal]

I have a music focused Artificer rolling around in my head that this would work for.

[heady sequoia]

As written it affects the next, so if they are concentrating its immediate but if they arent yet itll happen if they try. Idk if thats how it should work I kinda just wrote it like that lol

[heady sequoia]

So resizing partially allows you to mix properties. I revised the oversized to remove Light, but it retains Finesse so now you have a 2d8 Heavy Finesse Two Handed (oversized rapier)

[unique flame]

Ahhh, true.

Is there a similar benefit for shrinking it?

[heady sequoia]

Shrunken is revised to remove Heavy, but it does explicitly allow BA attack so a d10 2h Finesse with a BA attack (shrunken Gsword) happens

Could give it Light instead, allowing it to dual wield lol

[unique flame]

I can see how that'd be useful.

Idk, I think maybe I was hoping it would be more dynamic.

Something where the same character would be motivated to switch between them.

But that's more personal preference on my account.

[heady sequoia]

Hmmm

my games would have a minimum crit roll of 13 with this

What do you think FishBus?

[unique flame]

Ooooh.

It certainly has more to it.

Though that does also mean it seems a lot stronger.

But I very much like the idea of knocking people down with an oversized weapon and then shrinking it and going for the armour joints.

Definitely I think auto-prone on hit is too far, though.

Gotta be a save at least, right?

This is really cool, but I don't wanna let that get me carried away from balance lol.

[heady sequoia]

I could just remove the +1, then give it back at 14th or 18th

Yeah the auto prone might be much tho

[heady sequoia]

"When a creature is hit by an oversized weapon, the wielder can also attempt a shove"?

So its a shove contest

[unique flame]

Interesting.

Is there a reason it shouldn't just be a Strength save against artificer DC?

I'm comparing this to other features that let you prone on attack.

[heady sequoia]

Thats possible too, but partially thinking of letting the wielder's strength factor in to how strong the "shove" is

Could def do arti save dc. It has a precedent in infusions

The additional attack from double Light should have "once per turn"

Or actually, to work with Action Surge "once when you take the Attack action"

[heady sequoia]

Might be a dumb idea

Path of the Rhythm Barbarian, an unarmed strke Barb that uses no damage die

[wild jacinth]

Seems very swingy

Either you get a good round and stockpile a bunch of damage or you're useless

But the concept is fun

I mean, con saves are good for barb but they are meant to be taking damage all the time

[heady sequoia]

Noting that the Barb would have good Con saves I think theyd rarely drop the rhythm, and it helps making them a juicy target once damage starts ramping. might be pretty weak at first but once you have extra attack youre probably getting 2 rhythm per turn

Which would scale your damage a lot

And at 6th you can reliably aoe since you regain notes on hit

Well you have to build up the points first at least

[heady sequoia]

Btw intended damage is ((1+rhythm)*rage)+strmod. Didnt know if str mod or rage is still applied or not based on the wording, I didnt write down str mod but I did add 1 to rhythm to account for rage damage not proccing

[wild jacinth]

ohh

better

so, 1st turn it'd be 2*2 (4) + 4 so 8

[heady sequoia]

Yeah then rhythm builds everytime you hit, encouraging you to reckless and ramping up your damage

[unique flame]

Oooh, I like the idea of a sort of combo builder thing.

Spending the points to get extra effects makes perfect sense from there, though I'm not sure the effects are all as strong as each other.

Pitch Perfect is unique and fun.

Beat Master I'm not sure about.

As I understand it, the only way to make 4 or more unarmed strikes with this class is to use swipe or hold note.

[heady sequoia]

Yeah Im not so sure about that last one too tbh

[unique flame]

And a critical hit from an unarmed strike doesn't actually deal any extra damage, since there's no dice involved.

[heady sequoia]

Eyy thats why theres the clause that you double rhythm points when determining damage for crits

[unique flame]

In fact, it deals less than it would if you hadn't spend the points to get enough attacks.

[unique flame]

Oh true, my bad.

Hold on, brb.

I'm mid-pull-ups.

[heady sequoia]

Yeah thats true tho, thats the feature im iffy on as well

Lol get those gains bro

[unique flame]

Okay I'm back. :)

Yeah maybe change Beat Master.

Though that leads into my big thing I would suggest.

I think Rhythm Fist doesn't have enough interactivity.

As I understand it, you deal more unarmed damage the more times you hit.

And you can lose them if you lose your rage or concentration.

My concern is that the player doesn't have any new choices to make.

They just attack, and hope they roll good con saves because there's no way a barb is gonna avoid getting hit and still keep their rage up.

I think these kinds of combo-building moves are a lot easier to do in video games, where getting a hit comes down entirely to player skill.

[heady sequoia]

Mmm yeah the decision making was shunted to 6th

It was part of the base originally but I wasnt sure if it would be much

[unique flame]

And even then, you need to spend at least a turn or 2 just hitting before you can do much with the 6th level feature.

And those effects, while nice, are just different ways to make more attacks or make your attacks hit.

[heady sequoia]

The other idea is to have other combat actions affect it

Dodge = +1 rhythm
Disengage = cant lose Conc

Something like that

[unique flame]

Ooh, interesting.

Maybe you could angle it more as a gambling kinda mechanic?

[heady sequoia]

Wait better

Dodge = gain rhythm when an attack misses

[unique flame]

Like spending the points is 'cashing out,' as opposed to pushing your luck at the risk of losing them.

Interesting.

I really like that but I don't think it fits as the main 3rd level thing.

I think the core points and their damage needs to be more interactive somehow.

[heady sequoia]

I think im more interested in the ramping than a smite cash out, but I will consider it definitely

[unique flame]

That's fair.

It doesn't quite fit the theme.

But I strongly believe you need an active choice for the player to make at 3rd level.

Also, could it maybe also work while using an instrument as a weapon? Pure fanservice, but when I read the name I immediately thought of an orc hitting people with a lute.

[heady sequoia]

Tbf tho some of the barbs are like "BA to damage more" or "you have claws now" (tho beast barb does have a decision point when you start rage)

Bear Barb is "resist everything" and thats kinda it

[heady sequoia]

I was thinking that XD

[unique flame]

Bear barb I'll give you. Though I do think the sheer breadth of extra resistances feasibly does give it some new options.

Zealot I think is fucking badly designed, frankly.

Boring features, some of which actively lower the tension of the entire game and rely on other classes to happen reliably, plus a lack of adherence to what should have been a cool flavour.

You've already done better than that.

[heady sequoia]

Updated the Path of the Rhythm. I converted the Rhythm Fists into a full upgrade of the Barb's available combat actions

[unique flame]

Oooooh.

I like the direction.

Making you just like, better at everything as it builds.

[heady sequoia]

Well mostly attack and Dash lol

[heady sequoia]

OK so returning to my BH brews, I wanna finish my Elemental one but got struck with draconic inspiration

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/Cenefn8r1LX3

What do you guys think? Anything broken?

instead of the typical dragon colors, I honed in on chromatic, metallic and gem dragon as a basis

It also has 3 exclusive blood curses, for each of the dragon types

[rustic abyss]

This actually looks very well rounded, and really what the bloodhunter subclasses should be on- the bloodhunter subclasses that are there are not nearly as strong as they should be

Though I do think every subclass should have at least one utility or flavor feature, so ill just throw this one out there for funsies:

Eye for Value
3rd or 7th level Wyvern Order
The blood of dragons has moved from your body to your mind, infecting your eyes with the splendor of riches. You are proficient in the Investigation skill.
Additionally, you have advantage on Intelligence (Investigation) checks to discern value, quality, or hidden details, of items.

[heady sequoia]

Oho, I kinda like the idea behind this, and teeechnically this sub is missing a 3rd level feature (most get 2, only Mutant doesn't)

[rustic abyss]

Bloodhunter gets a fun but useful flavor feature for inspecting their loot, and can easily find and estimate the vakue and some hidden parts to them

[rustic abyss]

Also just gonna point in something- in lore bloodhunters undergo these transformations to become more like what they hunt, meaning bloodhunters of this are trying to kill dragons.

Though the name, order of the wyvern just slightly ticks me a bit, because Wyverns in the dnd canon are considered a lessers dragon, and not even in the main lineup. I know this is an, erm actually, moment- but im going somewhere with this. The hunters dont even share any traits with wyverns themselves with the features.

So I propose a name change- considering wyverns are not a great dragon for the thematic (in my inconsequential opinion...), and this order is about people hunting dragons...

Order of the Wyvern -> Order of the Dragonslayer

[heady sequoia]

Yeah so Wyvern was mostly cause it sounds cooler

[rustic abyss]

Order of the Scale and Order of the Titan could also work

[heady sequoia]

And like everything dragon has done "Draconic" "Dragon" already

But yeah I see what you mean XD

[rustic abyss]

ye lol

just my own pet peeve, if you like order of the wyvern you have every right to keep it that way

[heady sequoia]

Plus I use some of Amellwind's MH convertion so I have Huge wyverns, a la Rathalos and stuff so at least it makes sense in my setting XD

[rustic abyss]

Order of the Wyrm
Order of the Scale
Order of the Serpent
and Order of the Breath
are my suggestions

[rustic abyss]

Oh- i see!

[heady sequoia]

Some updates can be found in the link.

Raiden's suggestion has been added. Right now I used the name "Hoard Mentality", I thought its a nice pun

Apathetic has had its effect split, but you can still place both on a single target.

The breath recharge has been changed. Instead of using Blood Maledict, you have one per long, and recharge by taking 2 hemo die necrotic damage

[unique flame]

I really really like this.

I'm not very up-to-date on Blood Hunter, but it has strong flavour and identity.

The dragon blood transfusion idea is great thematically, and makes perfect sense for a blood-magic user when dragon blood is already established to be magical.

I think the Sapping effect of Apathetic is too strong, though. And the gem dragon teleport seems just strictly better than the chromatic dragon's movement speed buff.

Also, just to be nitpicky: some of the draconic breath weapons traditionally call for con saves rather than dex, which I think would be nice to have.

I'm also not convinced about Rite of the Apathetic or Wyverian Physiology as names.

Like, are you cursing someone with a lack of enthusiasm?

And I think it should probably be Wyvernic, not Wyverian to match with draconic.

That's all I can think of though, overall this is really good.

I would totally play one if I was gonna be a blood hunter.

[heady sequoia]

Mmm I'm banking on the fact that most monsters multiattack and rarely ever have BAs for Sapping

The LA removal... its denying basically 1 attack which I think is fine?

The teleport is once per turn, while the movement speed increase affects your fly speed and is affected when you Dash

Or a tabaxi I guess

[unique flame]

True, but teleporting is better than flying, and you need to dash a lot less than you need to disengage, which a teleport is essentially a better version of.

[heady sequoia]

Mmm fair, I was thinking 20 might be much but I might go with 20 feet then

As for the Con save, Apathetic has a Con save for that reason. I could do a table for the save types, but i felt that would be a tad messy

[unique flame]

That makes sense.

Idk, I guess I just feel bad that more shit is turning into dex saves.

[heady sequoia]

Ahahaha yeah I do agree but it is a breath weapon and those are traditionally dex saves by default

[unique flame]

Well that's what I'm saying, they're not.

White and green dragons both have con saves.

Some metals too, I assume, but I haven't got their stats in my brain.

[heady sequoia]

Yes Poison and Cold are Con saves usually

[unique flame]

I totally understand it as a neatness thing, but personally it does just bum me out a bit I guess.

[heady sequoia]

But I didnt want to make it messy for one damage type

Hmm lemme check the gem dragons tho

Otherwise Apathetic is Con at the very least, like the metallic "slow" breaths

Apathetic as a name, its a Rite not a curse, technically the names are "Rite of the Oracle" "Rite of the Flame" "Rite of the Roar" so im trying to follow the pattern and felt Apathetic works as like a "slow" descriptor

[unique flame]

I see.

Maybe Rite of the Numb?

Rite of the Stupified?

Rite of the Blazed?

[heady sequoia]

Numb works well

[heady sequoia]

Mmm time to do

Flame - Dex
Frozen - Con
Storm - Dex
Dead - Con
Oracle - Int (Psychic)
Roar - Con
Numb/Apathetic - Con

Lots more Con due to the Esoterics/14th level rites lol

[unique flame]

Honestly I'm pleased with that. There are too many dex saves in the world.

I really do like that. It gives more weight to the options.

[heady sequoia]

It actually helps out Oracle, it goes for a less common save, making it an attractive option over Roar's thunder damage (traditionally a slightly more optimal pick)

[heady sequoia]

Oh man... have a shitty attempt at a class incoming...

[haughty heart]

You have piqued my interest by saying it was bad.

[heady sequoia]

Lmao we shall see, I'm still trying to finalize the first 5 levels and the subclasses

Im super hung up on my subclass levels rn

3 10 15 18 XD

I was going for 7th but I felt like I had other things to put there

[lament egret]

3 to 9 is harrsh with rogue

3 to 10 seems cruel

[heady sequoia]

I might go exactly ranger's subclass levels

3 7 11 15

or 3 7 10 18

10 18 seems really bad tho

but I think the cleric is worse there

[heady sequoia]

bard be like 6 and wait till 14th

[lament egret]

I like at least 1 in the first 3 tiers

[heady sequoia]

does 3 7 10 15 seem good? maybe 3 7 11 18 might be better, that way the subclass handles a tier shift

[lament egret]

Yeah. I like 4 total

[still herald]

Clerics going 8 to 17: "Hey"

[heady sequoia]

OK so

I'm not very very confident about posting this in the main channel yet XD

buuutt

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/YeiGEhDvgl_0

Here's my attempt at a dancer class hahaha, rather than the first 5 levels I have the first 6 levels here, with names and plans for the remaining levels in mind.

Primarily the two main mechanics are Dance and Momentous Attacks

Dance is patterned somewhat off the fire emblem "gain another turn" dance, and is flavored as the dancer's moves influencing others during combat. It is limited in two ways, requiring you to do the exact action you want to grant, and not being able to use the damaging actions of attack or cast.

Momentous Attacks are a damage boost that plays off 5e's bounded accuracy expecting you to miss about 35% of the time. Usually you gain nothing on a miss, but the dancer takes a miss and turns it into a buff. The damage is less than hitting a weapon attack, but since you will eventually miss you should overall have better damage due to "making up" for it. The spell slot burn is actually an add on to allow for turns where you don't attack, but Blade Dance was added to help with that so I'm not sure if the spell slot burn is fine.

It's probably bad one way or another so go easy on me XD

inb4 pole dancer subclass

the first 6 levels are there btw due to Avoidant being fairly notable, so I wanted feedback on that as well. Might be a bloated level 6

All the flavor and intro text is a WIP but I had fun writing those

Also Urbosa

Also it has no cantrips, as it has a martial lean and default EA, but uses spellcasting at 1st like arti cause it feels like it just makes sense? And also eases the level 2 bloat

As for spells, I might make a few dancer exclusive ones, but that's later down the line. Spell list is at the end

[heady sequoia]

Another thing im unsure of is the Unarmored AC not including the shield. It makes sense mechanically, but I tend to see a lot of dancing fighters with shields or at least bucklers

Mechanically it uses the dancer's two main abilities, so like the monk it shouldnt use a shield

[heady sequoia]

Also left 9th, 13th and 17th blank like pally and ranger as well, but 17th got filled as a tier shift momentous attacks

I felt it was a small enough boost but idk really. But thats future me's problem, not part of the first 6 levels

[heady sequoia]

Oh, another thing to note is that their spellcasting requires no verbal components. instead the dancer must be able to move, meaning grappling automatically stops their spellcasting.. Their casting still creates sound, but when silenced they work fine (which isnt common I guess)

[heady sequoia]

https://discord.com/channels/113801089362558983/1134104200398262282

OK gonna separate this out from my typical random brews, cause this will probably be a huge undertaking

If anyone is interested, feel free to join the post!

[heady sequoia]

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/9cu6nBiEwYdo

[heady sequoia]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qQdfmwgT2s4-ZF0xyQjSRAxmQks7dlzW48B67tkTef0/edit?usp=drivesdk

[heady sequoia]

So this is tangentially related to the Dancer, but as I was writing down some dance and song spells, I thought of a mechanic for them. What do you guys think? Is it viable as a replacement to Concentration, or is it too strong?

Basically, while ritual adds 10 mins of casting time to produce effects without expending a slot, performance lets you replace concentration with a constant drain on something you can do. Singing halts a lot of casting, dancing slows you down, and playing takes your ability to fight or use items. This mechanic will be primarily for the bard or dancer, but technically could be taken by others if they sneak in an instrument prof

[sharp sphinx]

can you perform 3 things at once?

also i feel like bladesingers would greatly benefit from that

[heady sequoia]

I guess the last sentence should say "more than two" lol

[heady sequoia]

So if is specifically only bladesinger thats the problem I think thats OK, its partially bladesinger being crazy already itself. I could also take away the Performance skill prof to unlock the ability

[sharp sphinx]

i agree with that

[heady sequoia]

rather "two or more"

Anyway barring bladesinger, would it be "balanced"? Yes this does unlock double concentration at the cost of a single musical instrument prof, but maybe the drawbacks (and I would guess how easy it is to stop the performance) might balance it out? Also the fact that this is mostly for bard and dancer?

Might depend on the spells I guess?

[sharp sphinx]

bards could benefit from using dancing to double concentration

[heady sequoia]

definitely yeah, I mean its definitely a power up, just wondering if it would be gamebreaking or not

[sharp sphinx]

it would need a bit of playtesting to figure out

[heady sequoia]

also its like ritual where its a tag on certain spells

so might depend on the spells

[sharp sphinx]

let's hope sorcerers won't take it

[heady sequoia]

lets say... Otto's Irresistable Dance gets the tag

[sharp sphinx]

quad concentration

unless i forgot how twinned spell concentration works

[heady sequoia]

Btw the other way to take it was to add it onto concentration or use it as a conc alt for specific spells

so like a spell could be both performance and conc

or a spell could be only performance

So I would like to know if this mechanic seems reasonable, and which approach would work better if the mechanic does seem good

[willow reef]

Okay first off

The concept of the Performance makes me feel like it's supposed to be used at the back lines, which I'm not sure if that's the focus for your dancer, but aside from that...

[heady sequoia]

Nah dancer be in melee

most of the spells this is tagged on (homebrew for now) are aura-like or radiate from self

[willow reef]

This feels like the issues Bladesingers have then, it feels like you should be in the back rows when on surface you're meant to be fighting in the thicket of things

[heady sequoia]

and only Irresistable dance so far is planned to get the tag from the official ones

danse macabre is being considered lol

[willow reef]

Okay, that's good. I think it's not bad, seeing as using Performance bars you into that one spell during the whole spell(for most spells anyways), and because of that it might not be that much of an issue

[heady sequoia]

Not a problem for dancer, all their features require you to be up close, and only at 15 can you be at range, but even then you cant do any damage from range so its unoptimal

bladesinger is a problem because its on a wiz chasis and can fight effectively at range

[willow reef]

I was picturing a ballerina causing ice spikes while they tap dance fromna distance tbh

Apparently we have very different images of a dancer caster, haha

[heady sequoia]

the dancer's features require 10 feet range, using finesse melee weapons

[heady sequoia]

Thats just the bard imo

I dont think thats very unique

so in contrast I leaned into movement

the dancer uses the very momentum of their dance to strike hard

a miss is a hit waiting to happen for them, misses buff their next damage

and their Dance ability is like a "lead dancer", they lead others to follow their moves

You can already flavor other casters as dancing from afar to cast spells, so I wasnt interested in "dancer fullcaster" since I couldnt think of anything unique about it

[willow reef]

I think the only issue I see atm is the dancing move

It's making you unable to attack, cast spells, and all you can do is move so it's a less appealing performance to take imo

[heady sequoia]

dancing actually allows you to attack

playing prevents it

since youre playing your instrument (is the image)

you can still dodge and help and stuff at least, might be worth bein able to talk and cast verbal spells for the bard (dissonant whispers and BI for example)

and move at full range

[heady sequoia]

Also the image of a dancer is one of martial prowess half the time, and dance magic the other half.

Spartan warriors being excellent dancers and have "combat dances". Seductresses who come in close (and dominatrixes with their whips). Fire dancers who spin fire and breathe it out

Its a very close quarters thing

And in video games, dancers or dancer like characters are often using swords or the like, very rarely far from combat despite their frailty

[willow reef]

Yeah, I meant playing

Sorry had to go and didn't recheck what I wrote

But wouldn't flutes and the like take up V components?

[heady sequoia]

True but too granular

[heady sequoia]

We'll get back to Performance later, but for now, I have a few spells for the dancer (class over at #1134104200398262282). What do you think of these?

I'm thinking of giving Lock Step an option to mirror or copy, mirroring would essentially make them move opposite you, if you move north they move south.

[wanton bluff]

I feel like swap step should be a BA - Competes with misty step, which allows for a much greater deal of flexibility on where you position yourself.

Also slight wording thing, but I'd specify "Willing creature" over ally ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[heady sequoia]

Yeah I was thinking of it as a BA, but I figured that it being like a double teleport might make it strong. But I can def bump it down to a BA

Oh yeah I wrote that one in bed sleepy XD

Lightning Rush I was thinking whether to give it Thunder Step's "Carry one other person". Theyre the same level after all

[wanton bluff]

I see what you mean.

My reasoning is that misty step lets you TP anywhere within 30 feet, while this gives you very specific locations you can TP to. You lose that versatility in return for the ability to TP a party member as well. Stronger in specific situations, but less versatility

[heady sequoia]

true

[wanton bluff]

Seems good with me! It feels like a side-grade to thunderstep, so it'd be fine for them to both get that.

Worth noting - From my (limited) experience, line damage typically tends to be worse than radius, so thunderstep feels a bit more preferable, but not by a massive amount that I wouldn't ever use lightning rush.

Hahaha lockstep is fun

[heady sequoia]

thunder step notably deals its damage from the space you left, so its a retreat tool. lightning rush does so in a line starting from where you are, making it an engagement tool

[wanton bluff]

Ah my bad

Classic case of me skimming text biting me in the ass

(Yesterday, I gave my spellcaster 3 pearls of power since I assumed they were consumed on use xd)

[heady sequoia]

Nah youre right, im just pointing out why I made it and how its use case is different

line is harder to aim than radius for sure

so thunder step is preferable from a damage dealing perspective

does make me think whether I should increase lightning rush's range to thunder step's tho lol

its a sidegrade, but in a sense that the uses are slightly different

and also lightning bolt vs fireball line vs radius lol

[wanton bluff]

Hmm 🤔

I think it's fine as is, I kinda like that the range is shorter - As you mentioned, its meant for engaging enemies, which often requires less movement than getting away from them

Lock step seems fine to me, balance wise. Personally, I wouldn't mind an on-succeed effect (Halving movement speed for a turn?), but that's just personal preference against save-or-suck single target, and not super needed.

[heady sequoia]

Yeah I actually am thinking of an on succeed effect

Half speed sounds great

[wanton bluff]

Crushing leap feels a bit weird to me - Why damage, then move? Wouldn't it make sense for where you land to receive the damage? Also, for a "stomp," a vertical cylinder is a bit of an odd AOE. I'd imagine it would only affect creatures on the ground.

[heady sequoia]

Mmmm right actually. Its a Leap Crush Leap rn

I was thinking of an "earthbind"like effect of pushing flying creatures to the ground so thats why its a cylinder

[wanton bluff]

That's a pretty neat visual

[heady sequoia]

Was thinking whether I should reduce damage for that

[wanton bluff]

Wouldn't be a bad idea, yeah

Actually, I'd consider reducing the range

Eh, actually scratch that

Was comparing it to dimension door, but I forgot that DD teleports and this doesn't

I think a range decrease still might be good, but for other reasons

4th level is where spell balance gets a bit tricky for me tbh, my advice would be to clarify the effects, and tune down both damage and range a smidge

[finite berry]

Ignoring balance, those spells look quite spicy (I like them)

[heady sequoia]

You mean the AoE decrease or range as in the 60 feet range?

[wanton bluff]

The 200 foot travel range

Oh wait, I just realized the 60 foot first range??

I think that makes it even more convoluted - They jump up to 60 feet, then jump again up to 200?

[heady sequoia]

yea lol. I could just streamline that

The image was like the whole "double jump", leap then crush then leap with the force of the crush

buuuut I could streamline it

I just like the travel distance to be far but the initial range not to be, which is why I did it like that

Distance hasn't been nerfed yet for Crushing Leap, not sure if I should streamline the ranges (essentially its a 260 foot jump, with a 60 feet "running start"). I nerfed the radius but increased the height a little, and nerfed the damage, but gave it a force fall effect

Plus 2 spells, Spotlight and Limbo

Swap Step is now a BA, Lightning Rush now has Thunder Step's bring a +1 clause

Lock Step now chooses follow or mirror, following or mirroring your movement

with a clarification on fly and burrow

[slow geyser]

Isn't Swap Step a reduced version of Vortex Warp?

Lightning Rush seem similar to Thunder Step, perhaps I would change the secondary effect (bringing someone with you) with a different feature that sets the two spells apart

Shouldn't the damage in Crushing Leap be a little higher?

Can Spotlight be used to find invisible creatures like Fearie Fire? (if so, it should require a save from an unwilling target)

Lock Step may be a bit too strong but I love it! It seems fun to play with it

[heady sequoia]

Vortex Warp is imo kinda too strong

Its in an awkward position of too strong but too weak compared to Thunder Step

[heady sequoia]

Thunder Step notably deals damage on the area you left, making it an escape tool. Lightning Rush is an engagement tool instead. Its like a sidegrade like lightning bolt is to fireball, but Rush has a different use case

[heady sequoia]

Yeah 4d10 is right but it also causes fall damage potentially. Well the cylinder height might be too small so might bump it up

[heady sequoia]

No, it doesnt disable invis, it only tracks them if they turn invis while they are spotlit (OR if you can see them while invis like blindsight or truesight)

[heady sequoia]

Could be bumped up to 4th but might be too weak there lol

[heady sequoia]

Well, unless I really want a double teleport as a 1st level spell

[slow geyser]

Yeah, it kind of reminds me of the Phase Rift ability from KibblesTasty Psion, it's a very cool movement option imo

[heady sequoia]

Also on Lightning Rush, irdk what other secondary effect I can give a teleport that is as good as bringing a friend with you

[slow geyser]

But I suppose I know where they are if the spotlight is there, so for example they can't run away unnoticed

[heady sequoia]

Yes it tracks them but doesnt disable it. They cannot run away, but you will still struggle to hit them

[slow geyser]

Idk I would still add a save for unwilling targets

the best use is still with friends probably

[heady sequoia]

I think a save would make it pretty bad vs faerie fire

Which actually prohibits invis completely

And affects an area

[slow geyser]

But Faerie Fire doesn't have the same versatility

And requires concentration iirc

[heady sequoia]

The conc argument is fair but in terms of versatility I think the disadv to Percep is mostly gonna be ooc stuff and faerie fire is still a lot more useful in actually tagging pre-invis things and fighting them, so I think its about equal or weaker. Then this targets one, doesnt reveal invis, and is very low combat application I think I dont need a save necessarily. But I'll consider it and watch for others opinions on it

The conc of faerie fire is more due to its adv imo, a buff stacking prevention

Nothing on Limbo? XD

[slow geyser]

I don't know about that one, the 30-foot range limits its potential against flying targets, making it a shorter range but much better Earthbind

Halving the speed of a creature seems decently strong, I'm trying to think of comparable spells

[heady sequoia]

Reposting for review in case new people come

for swap step, imagine I made Vortex Warp 3rd level instead of 2nd

(Cause im planning to do that)

[random urchin]

I feel like swap steps wording is... off.
From what I recall, it should probably be "select a willing creature you can see in range, you swap places with that creature"

Lightning Rush is a ~better Thunder Step, that's already a rather potent spell.
functionally larger aoe, more damage, etc.
Slightly shorter range, but

[heady sequoia]

I was actually debating to lower that damage, but didnt want to make the damage identical to thunder step

wanted it to be a little different

5d6?

[random urchin]

4d6 would probably be more appropriate, a little under than a little over

[heady sequoia]

Mmm Im considering that line would be harder to aim and the shorter teleport range too, though I know they functionally dont affect much

[heady sequoia]

Might just make it same damage lol

[slow geyser]

The good thing of a line compared to thunder step is that you mostly don't have to worry about friendly fire, which is imo what limits thunder step

[heady sequoia]

Mmmm yeah I guess. Still considering making it the same damage instead though

Also still can't think of a good alternate secondary effect lol

[slow geyser]

The ability I was mentioning earlier from KibblesTasty psion, it has a bunch of added effects

I don't know how I would word it, but it would be fun if by upcasting it you could stop and travel an additional x feet, without traversing the same places where you passed before

Another idea could be adding an effect on the creature failing the save, such as removing their reactions (like a line version of shocking grasp)

[heady sequoia]

@random urchin @slow geyser ok what if...

[slow geyser]

Interesting idea! Although I kinda had to read it twice before getting it haha

[heady sequoia]

But you got it XD

I dont think I need a willing creature for this cause if you do it to an enemy they can just go back and damage your allies

I think

[slow geyser]

Anyway, this is probably 4th level though

you get thunder step and limited scatter

[heady sequoia]

Mmm i mean this is only one other creature so similar to thunder step, shorter range and lower damage on initial, dependent on positioning to get the second damage off

Could go 3d6 2d6

[slow geyser]

Ah wait, from how I read it there wasn't a limit on the number of creatures

it isn't very clear

by the way may I suggest the name Lightning Relay? Sounds more fitting if you get this kind of effect

[heady sequoia]

Great name

[heady sequoia]

Only you can choose to teleport another creature, the next one cannot

[slow geyser]

No I meant it reads as if you can teleport any number of creatures

snce you refer to it as them

and the first part just sets a limit condition that can be read as "at least"

The sentence should specify "After you teleport, you can cause one creature of your choice within 5 of you to teleport.." probably

[heady sequoia]

"A creature" tho

But yeah will clarify it

[slow geyser]

It's probably correct already, but clarity always helps 👍

[heady sequoia]

Reworded Swap Step
Remade Lightning Rush, renamed to Lightning Relay

[slow geyser]

Seems better! Although I'm still not sure about the they/them to refer to singular creatures, I think that they are usually referred as "it". Also I'm still partial to the idea of scaling the number of relays you get by upscaling, but otherwise it looks great!

[heady sequoia]

Mmm scaling the number of relays does sound interesting. It will functionally be a damage boost but a very much harder damage boost since you'll have to be perfectly positioned... which the dancer can help with via dash, dodge and disengage dancing

Right I forgot the standard is "it" lol

[heady sequoia]

proving tough to word XD

[slow geyser]

I figured haha

[heady sequoia]

Attempt

Eh, sounds like you can "scatter" multiple people within 5 feet of the second teleport

which isnt intended

Bah

[slow geyser]

When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 5th level or higher, the creature you target after you teleport is considered instead as under a new effect of the Lightning Relay spell.
(not sure is "new effect" means anything in d&d tho

[heady sequoia]

Nah doesnt mean anything, but I could try and dig up a spell that does this. But most upcasts are just damage so hard pressed probably

[maiden inlet]

I feel like this is too powerful with misty step which does just the 60 foot teleport of lightning delay is only 1 level lower

[heady sequoia]

Is thunder step too strong for you?

@maiden inlet

[maiden inlet]

Oh they are basically the same spell

hmmm, i would say this one is slightly stronger

[heady sequoia]

Lower damage, reliant on a second person to get more damage

[maiden inlet]

Its more damaege, and it doesnt make a large sound

[heady sequoia]

Its lower unless you get the second one, which is unlikely cause its very hard to aim

Plus being shorter range teleport

And cant carry a person like thunder step

Thunder Step is 3d10 thunder radius 10, 90 foot teleport, bring a person. This is 4d6 60 foot line (bigger aoe, harder to aim), 60 foot teleport, 2d6 30 foot new line and teleport (makes it hard to get both damage on all enemies hit by the original line, since youd need to be in a conga)

6d6 is over, but you need to get everything lined up, and your teleport is shorter for both people

Again I could back it down to 3d6 initial but itll become way too weak

[heady sequoia]

And even in a conga line you wont end up lining up correctly since needing to be 5 feet means an offset, or one of you is taking damage passing through you

[full void]

I think it's fine, considering it's at most 6d6 damage and a teleportation effect for a 3rd level spell.

[heady sequoia]

Current version of these spells

I thiiiiink I landed on a good wording for Lightning Relay by using "relay" like a keyword, what do you think @slow geyser

[slow geyser]

You're probably almost there, although that "relay" sentence seems a bit too informal

and it probably isn't clear yet if the third creature must be within 5 feet of the relayed creature before or after you force them to teleport

[heady sequoia]

right yea

darn\

[slow geyser]

it's really difficult ngl, I can't come up with anything clean for it

I think an option could be making the spell touch instead of self and giving you a free casting on the target

but it needs to be at least 5th at that point

and it's still weird

[heady sequoia]

Mmm wait I have something Imma try

Slight change sorry, last sentence

[slow geyser]

I think you should specify "After being teleported, a relayed creature.."

[heady sequoia]

Right right. How is the wording otherwise?

[slow geyser]

I think it works. It isn't perfect, it still relies on the the "relay" wording, but I'd say it gets the point across well enough

[heady sequoia]

Spells for review newcomers!

[wild raven]

So this is like thunderstep but lightning and a bit more open but with less damage

[heady sequoia]

lightning, less range, less damage, but potential more damage if you relay someone (but due to it being a line you likely dont hit the same people unless they go back where you came from, hitting you as well)

more area of effect though I think?

And easier to use at the start of combat if youre surrounded by allies

[heady sequoia]

Gonna repost for review

(Note for Swap Step that I'm probably moving Vortex Warp up to 3rd)

[slow geyser]

What if you instead added something to swap step, like the creature you swap with can make a weapon attack after teleporting? (just a random idea)

(probably this specific idea is too strong though)

[heady sequoia]

Mmm possible, but I didnt want to make it like, Misty Step but better. I've always felt Vortex Warp is too strong at 2nd as well

[slow geyser]

Misty step still has various use cases, considering you don't need another creature to swap with

Also worth noting that Vortex Warp is an action compared to Misty and Swap Step

[heady sequoia]

Yes its still a little too strong in my eyes

[wild raven]

I think that, given misty step, swap step has additional utility that still makes it higher than 2nd level

Should be an action, I think

[heady sequoia]

It was an action at first actually

Probably will revert it back then

[wild raven]

Aye, I think it should. Misty ostensibly is "get in range" or "get out of range"

The best scenario for this allows for you to do something, get out, and get someone else in

As an action it might be a little too weak though. Hmm

[heady sequoia]

Yeah its a little in between, unfortunately

I think Action might be for the best

[haughty heart]

After seeing this spotlight spell, I'm thinking about making a homebrew spell that makes you lose your religion.

I'm sorry, the joke had to be made.

[heady sequoia]

I actually dont know the reference lol

[slow marten]

presumably something about the "Losing My Religion" song?

[heady sequoia]

Ooohhh the "Me in the corner" thing probably haha

[haughty heart]

And bingo was his name-o!

[rustic abyss]

I love the concept of Spotlight

[heady sequoia]

lmao was juuuust gonna ask for review

Any comments Raiden?

[heady sequoia]

I think this is my first try at a Paladin Oath?

What do y'all think?

[slow marten]

This brings us to a surprisingly difficult question... Does a hovering speed work in water?

[heady sequoia]

Probably not, though I did give them both fly and swim

Idk where the hover came from tho

im pretty sure I removed the hover mentions...

[slow marten]

which to be fair is kinda weird, why shouldn't it be able to hover?

[heady sequoia]

Lol well I dont think much of that

[still herald]

Smash Fox Paladin

https://tenor.com/view/fox-smash-dance-gif-11680421

Charge up 55 ft. of movement for 11 more damage

I did a similar Paladin that used movement as a key theme, but I did do a way for them to keep moving theme without just walking back and forth

Noble Afterimage
Starting at 15th level, your movement makes you a difficult target on the battlefield.
You gain resistance to all damage from opportunity attacks.
In addition, whenever you end your turn at least 20 feet away from where you began your turn, you have advantage on your next saving throw until the start of your next turn.

I definately see your theme of wanting the Paladin to move alongside the party, but in all honesty players will just Fox movement spam before trying to hit something in melee

[heady sequoia]

Tbh I didnt really mind that lol. I know I can make the whole "must end farther" or like how I did Dancer "move to 3 different spaces" if I really need to

Ultimately ok with back and forth with this one funnily enough

[celest wedge]

Love it!

(Freedom paladin)

I think the first 3rd level is a bit strong since its Fly + allied Misty Step but ever since Tasha's released, teleporting allies has been less rare.

The aura is solid. I like features that partially nullify conditions instead of completely nullifying them.

The rest are great! The 1 extra point is worded a bit unusually, cant help but feel like official wording would sound closer to "you deal an extra point of damage..." etc etc. But thats just my analness

[heady sequoia]

limited by the fact that its a 10 foot fly for 1 minute, its really not gonna get you far lol

[celest wedge]

Lmao missed the 10 ft, all clear in the rear then

Gonna pop channel divnity to climb up the attic bc the ladder is stuck

[heady sequoia]

its partially just to let you stay in the sky if you telport there, and hey sometimes that 10 feet is all you need

[celest wedge]

It def be. Just enough speed for some creativity, and even if nothing, lets em hover

[heady sequoia]

Looking at Conquest made me think of it as being pointed to as the only player-facing explicitly pretty evil paladin... so lets make another! Heres the Oath of Blood, a paladin of pain and suffering

oh btw the once per long rest part got cut off from the 20th transform

Im thinking the aura might be too crazy just guaranteed like 5 damage in an aoe but idk, some auras do be crazy

[slow marten]

I think I once made a very similar aura and I didn't immediately get called a moron, so it should be fine

maybe some kind of level scaling would be better, but dunno

[heady sequoia]

Thats a good sign XD

[slow marten]

at 7, I don't think it outdoes stuff like spell resistance. Paladin is overpowered of course, but I do believe this is in-line with other subclasses. Especially that if you boost your Cha, your regular attacks get weaker

While I don't subscribe to the 3 rounds theory, combats aren't that long, and creatures have solid HP pools, so I don't think 15 or 20 damage is gonna be this decisive (though obviously very neat)

If you're afraid of trivializing crowd encounters, it could always be limited to some number of creatures... Perhaps have the damage be half your Paladin level and Cha be the maximum number of creatures affected? Dunno if that's needed though

[celest wedge]

due to how differing each brewer's opinion is and how muddy homebrew balance is

if a brew literally gets no immediate objections, that shit's pure gold

[heady sequoia]

So there's a lot of revisions tha came from feedback from Frigion and Thud. Namely retooling the tenets to be a lot less explicitly evil, reworking Die for Me a little, and making Sadistic Avatar synergize more, specially with Torture Soul

[slow marten]

well, I didn't say no objections... But I think the rough consensus is that while strong, it's pretty manageable - after all, you can just add a flat amount of hp to each enemy, or have them be smart and stay out of range

[still herald]

So I'm curious...does this distance itself from the teamwork style of other Paladins

making the Aura a purely offensive feature feels off

[slow marten]

I think that's the point, no?

[still herald]

probably

just feels weird to have a purely offensive Paladin subclass

when a lot of its base features are meant to support

[slow marten]

Eh, it's not like the other subs synergize with class features anyway

[still herald]

tru, but all Paladins are, in general, supportive or enhancing to more than just themselves

Paladins at a base, are people you fight alongside with, due to their Aura of Protection and their power of smites. They are trenchwork melee fighters and support their allies tremendously in those trenches.

They can carry their own while also giving everyone else an extensively helpful boost

Additionally, the Aura works against a key part of Paladin, being their lay on hands

as your Aura will halve the healing spent

according to wording

and also hurts your party as well

[slow marten]

that part is true, yeah. But it makes sense - it's a simple way to incentivize using LoH on self, countering its innate support aspect

[still herald]

I'm saying however, that this subclass apart from the base Paladin is incentivizing you to be a lone character, in a team game

especially when your role as a Paladin, is to be a team player

You have two features that encourage you to get closer to allies, while this would make harm them with your aura

And another base key feature that is weakened from something in your subclass

I'm not sure that a purely offensive and solo-like Paladin subclass should exist

espcially in a game where they have been given significant tools to play something opposite to that

Mechanically, it's a little conflicting, but probably balanced. Thematically, this seems fine if you want to push a Paladin that likes reaping pain. Practicality, this doesn't fit the scheme of 5e or how base Paladin is designed to run.

Or at least makes your base scheme of Paladin incredibly harder.

[heady sequoia]

Actually not intended, totally forgot about that

[slow marten]

I wish someone just removed that

but yeah, it shouldn't include allies

[heady sequoia]

I mean, other than the LoH issue which is again, unintended, is there anything else that is a problem?

Conquest is practically full selfish as well, its aura is a fear aura, its 15th is a "if got damaged revenge", its 20th makes it a super Barbarian

[slow marten]

Yeah, selfish Paladins are cool (which is why I don't like LoH existing in the first place)

[heady sequoia]

Vengeance is also full selfish, they have NO aura and just move and attack when they kill, mark enemies as their target, and fly and frighten at 20th

Not that I agree with no aura, but selfish pallys are clearly possible

[celest wedge]

homebrew adds the possibility of nearly anything. Helping balance and whatnot is good but saying something shouldnt exist because it doesnt fit the preexisting ideas is hardly constructuve

[slow marten]

especially when it does fit

[heady sequoia]

Fixed the Lay on Hands issue

Also fixed the damage aura now being "when they first enter on their turn"

[heady sequoia]

Trying my hand at a cleric domain, cause I gotta experience everything to do the subclass structure document lol

[celest wedge]

before i read it can i make a formatting suggestion snowwolf?
usually there's a line break after the fluff text following the "at x level" start.

Like:
At 15th level, you harness the power of celery and other fibrous vegetables.
As an action, blah blah blah.

for the 6th level feature for example newer books would add a line break before "You can take the Attack, Dash..." since that's where the mechanical part begins.

also at a first place that CD is HEELLA strong its basically Slow but partly guaranteed and that wears out slowly instead of all at once

also non concentration

twice per short rest at lv 6+

Accelerate is fun tho, very strong but not broken at least since it cant cast a spell. I'd suggest making it so the Attack action is 1 attack only ala Haste, because multiclass exists and i also hate it

17 is epic

[heady sequoia]

Its also a single target version of Slow

[heady sequoia]

Im debating whether the one attack limitation is still needed cause with Haste the big part is not only having that 1 attack but having it for a stretch of time instead of just once, and getting th AC boost, Dex save boost and speed boost as well

[slow marten]

agreed that the CD seems a tad too strong, yes

personally, I'd do something about initiative instead. Maybe every creature is moved up to your Wis in either direction? It doesn't seem flashy, but could potentially change a lot about the encounter

6 is strong but alright, though I'm not a fan of adding another CD here. I'd rather take the weak but consistent ability here

Also I'd add a ribbon about not being affected by magical aging, and not aging at all at 17

[celest wedge]

the qualm i believe is how it is guaranteed to have an effect when most spells are not a 100% effect chance. Esp since it seems like you can choose the effects regardless, and they wear off one by one.

[celest wedge]

i can see that, esp since it'd take a weird ass multiclass to achieve anytihng crazy with it.

but I do still feel like that CD is better than any CD (or even caster 2nd level feature altogether)

[heady sequoia]

I uh... have that there

At 17th

[slow marten]

oh

in my defense I just woke up

but you could move the "magically" part earlier so that it actually sees use

[heady sequoia]

Right so based on feedback on overflow and this one that the 2nd CD might be too strong, I propose this new CD

Channel Divinity: Redo

As a reaction when a creature takes damage or regains hit points, you can use your Channel Divinity to briefly twist time and view another outcome. You roll the damage or healing again, and choose which result to use.

[slow marten]

Hm, I feel like this is a bit too situational now, as it only works with strong spells really. Perhaps something like "reroll any kind of roll" would be better?

[heady sequoia]

I'm outright avoiding reroll effects, but recognized that damage rerolls are uncommon. Mind you this also is used on damage towards your allies to try reducing the damage

[slow marten]

yeah, I know. It's just that big enough damage rolls aren't this common

[heady sequoia]

As for why I'm avoiding reroll effects, I want to avoid potential overlap with a theoretical Fate domain, and thinking that reroll effects are also common

[slow marten]

dunno, fate could use outright bonuses/advantage instead, but I guess that's fair

[heady sequoia]

Fate/Divination

[slow marten]

You could maybe do something like "reset creature's turn, if it does the same thing, it gets advantage/disadvatage/something"

[heady sequoia]

I'd end up with Div wiz vs Chron wiz kinda dichotomy

and again having too many reroll abilities in the game

[slow marten]

I think a "mess with initiative" effect would be neat here

[heady sequoia]

Rewinding outright is something I was tinkering with but the execution is a problem cause itll cause tedious tracking of previous states and also regaining spell slots

[heady sequoia]

I have a spell for that already which I'm actually gonna slot in over longstrider lol

[slow marten]

I've been thinking of effects such as "the creature gains 5 initiative every turn", but it's probably too complex for basic 5e

[heady sequoia]

too clunky and tedious yea

[slow marten]

for this, I was gonna suggest "move every creature up or down" (probably as reaction to rolling initiative or bonus action)

[heady sequoia]

I feel that might be too great a control over init

[slow marten]

eh, dunno

if the number is your Wis it's not that much

[heady sequoia]

moving one creature maybe, but idk if I want a CD thats specifically just for initiative

[random urchin]

being it's meant to be a speed thing, I think a flat bonus wouldn't hurt

like instead of a reroll a flat +5 would be fine

hell, a +10 might be viable

[heady sequoia]

Maybe im an anomaly but near every combat has creatures clumped close, so even a 1 is something that feels impactful

[heady sequoia]

Considering conquest's CD yeah, but as a bonus to init I dont really want to overload init cause this domain already gets a bonus to themselves

[slow marten]

I mean, yeah, it's gonna help, but switching positions is still less impactful than just helping kill the creature one round sooner

[heady sequoia]

I mean as a reaction when init is rolled is dam near free, as a BA its imo almost equally so as well

[slow marten]

yeah, it costs you your CD use

[celest wedge]

yea it a bit on the weak side now, any reason you completely scratched the single target slow idea?

[slow marten]

maybe make it just two creatures then, not whole groups

[celest wedge]

it was solid just a bit over budgeted imo!

[heady sequoia]

basically your comment of it being too strong + the comments on overflow about it being quite messy doing a lot of things

I personally dislike save and nothing and have been trying to avoid that recently, which is why the feature ended up having save for only 2. (This also turns up in the opposite circumstance, I've been mitigating outright "nope" features, like oath of agony not preventing heals outright)

This was my other idea mind you, its even crazier haha

Channel Divinity: Echo Warning

As a reaction when a creature is hit by an attack, you can use your Channel Divinity to quickly shout a warning of danger into the past, causing the creature to dodge at the last moment. The attack deals the lowest damage it would deal, if an attack deals 2d4 damage it instead deals 2 damage.

[random urchin]

011111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111

[celest wedge]

ngl i like this a lot for a 6th level or something lmao

[heady sequoia]

2nd lmao

[slow marten]

feels kinda lame tbh... I wish there was more to this effect

[celest wedge]

its a new way to interact with mechanics that i didnt expect and it feels fun

lmao duality of man

[heady sequoia]

HAHAHAHA

I too think its unique

[celest wedge]

i enjoy new mechanics, but im also a cutscene skipper so yeah

[heady sequoia]

its a "fudge your die size" mechanic

[celest wedge]

exactly

its mechanically refreshing, and it fits the theme well. I'm not a stickler for theme, i think thats up for the player to decide anyways

[slow marten]

well, I guess. I mean, it's not too bad... But I still think that Cleric is the perfect class to be doing fun initiative manipulation

[heady sequoia]

Well this is confusing...

[celest wedge]

just follow what you like at the end of the day

[heady sequoia]

Trying to see if a rework of this idea might work, instead of a CD its a warlock feature. Too strong? Too little uses?

[slow marten]

too few

it's weird that it has a limitation for bringing it up, but not for down

as for uses, dunno. Unless you limit both directions it seems pretty party-dependent

[heady sequoia]

Deliberately avoiding saving it for a crit, and also trying to max dice something with a large amount of dice

Something like a maxed smite would be more dangerous balance wise than reducing all dice

Since things like resistance, immunity, uncanny dodge, and evasion exist

[celest wedge]

I think its solid as is

As a 10th level feature it should be nicely strong

Also idk what limitation there is, rolling damage and healing is about as universal as it gets?

[heady sequoia]

Limitation as in it says that maxing is only 2 dice, while minimizing is all dice

Maxing is a balance nightmare. A double smite paladin attack maxed out would be way more dangerous than a crit, its almost a crit + vuln. Maxing healing is sorta fine but finnicky if I make an exemption for that

Minimizing is near purely defensive, you reduce damage to its bare minimum, or force an enemy to heal next to nothing.

[heady sequoia]

Inspired by @celest wedge's inquiry about a psionic half caster, heres a psionic ranger: the Mind Ravager.

I'll def be adding expanded spell list to this with the "no components" clause for those spells specifically, just wanted a pass on the actual abilities first

[celest wedge]

yo that looks fun!

starting with remove presence was rad. I completely forgot thats a cool thing some psions do in media

reminds me of false hydra stuff

[heady sequoia]

I had another feature that was going in here that felt a bit too broken, so it got replaced by Harden Mind, but I might re-add it to the 11th level as another option

Cloud Judgement. You expend a Psionic Energy die and mire the mind of a creature within 30 feet of you. The next saving throw or ability check the creature makes has a penalty equal to one roll of your Psionic Energy die.

[celest wedge]

seems a bit strong yea, maybe = half the roll tho thats clunky. Maybe if its limited to certain times of saving throws or smth

[heady sequoia]

Its the one next save, but potential huge penalty makes it a near guarantee to fail. I was gonna do Conc, Int, Wis, Cha, but that does affect Wis which is the save or suck ones

[celest wedge]

Maybe con and int?

[heady sequoia]

Would be pretty bad imo since Int would be rare (and Con would be just Conc cause Con itself would be a little weird), well does synergize with Mind Strike at least

[celest wedge]

Id make it constitution just bc youre mentally discombobulating em in the butt via mind powers + int only and concentration seems too niche

[heady sequoia]

PSYCHIC SUPPOSITORY

[celest wedge]

Now THATS A FEATURE

[finite berry]

How do you proc Psychic Static?

[heady sequoia]

Right actually, just updated that. Its procced by expending it as you hit a creature

I actually forgot to post the link to the updated one

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/tVLyz80gaY1o

Changes:

Psychic Ward became the 7th level (also yes theres no reaction for the scream, you just do)
Psionic Double has a free Mind Strike each turn
15th is now Mind Link, a telepathic link that also grants shared psychic resistance and the effects of Harden Mind and Psychic Ward

Also added the spell list

[finite berry]

Hell yeah

[celest wedge]

btw Mind Link shares its name with a Kalashtar racial feature, not sure if you care or not, but just wanted to let u know

[heady sequoia]

Oh dam, yeah I can tweak it

[heady sequoia]

So I'm still looking for feedback on the Mind Ravager Ranger but I'm making a little detour to one of my old feats, specifically the Latent Psionics feat. This feat had 3 options, an ability one, a damage one, and a speed one. This was partially to make the feat less bad for the soulknife and psi warrior, as they would be gaining only 1 power if I didnt have the speed option, but also I liked 3 powers since both sk and pw have 3 options for their psionic power (sk has 2 but also has the psi knives).

But I came up with a new option for psionics, one I wasn't comfortable with locking into either the Mind Ravager Ranger or the Order of the Awakened Blood Hunter. Instead, I felt it befitting the feat as its third option of the a little forced speed option. Psicounter, a psionics counterspell that also allows you to sense psionics and telepathy. What do you guys think?

Side note: this feat had only 2 psi dice at first. I've bumped it up to 3 right now. I don't think this would be a major balance issue, but I welcome comments on that too

It comes with a note about what is psionics and what isn't. I'm hoping that this would affect Psionic Sorc's "Psionic Sorcery" feature due to its name, essentially if you applied Psionic Sorcery to a spell it would be affected by this. Up to interpretation whether you simply lose the ability to use the psionic sorc feature on the spell or the spell itself is countered, might want to clarify that but shouldn't come up in actual play 99% of the time

This would also technically affect some spells like telepathic bond or telekinesis, which seems appropriate anyway.

[wanton bluff]

Continuing the discussion here - #overflow message

Pyrokenisis? If psionics is control stuff with your mind, would kinetic energy of particles fall under that umbrella? The idea of being able to spontaneously combust things around you with your mind sounds cool

Levitation feels like it would slot in as well, so long as it's strong enough (Maybe built into the speed psionic option)?

[wanton bluff]

Honestly, taking this a step further and also including slowing down particle speed sounds awesome. Either lighting things on fire or setting them to absolute zero with your mind

[heady sequoia]

Quick ideas during lunch break, with differences from existing abilities listed:

Psi Guided Strike. Once on your turn, when you make a weapon attack, you can expend a Psionic Energy die to increase its range by 5 feet, and deal extra force damage equal to a roll of the Psionic Energy die.

(Difference: a range boost instead of mod damage)

***Psi Boosted Ability *** When you make an ability check with a skill or tool, you can expend a Psionic Energy die and add it to the check. You choose to use it after the d20 is rolled but before you know if the check fails or succeeds.

(Difference: any ability, but instantly expended. Cant use after knowing failure)

Psi Enhanced Speed. You can expend 1 Psionic Energy die and roll it. For the next 1 minute, your walking speed increases by 5 times the number rolled.

(Difference: small speed boost rather than huge burst or teleport, lasts longer)

Psicounter. Very long dont rewrite

Mind Ray. You can produce a blast of mind energy. Roll a d4.

Disorienting Ray - The target has disadvantage on its next attack roll.
Panic Ray - The target cannot move closer to you on its turn.
Kinetic Ray - The target is moved 5 feet in a direction of your choice.
Pity Ray - The target cannot attack you on its turn.

(Differences: Only 4 rays, with weaker but saveless effects)

Strengthen Focus. When you are forced to make a saving throw other than death saving throws, you can expend a Psionic Energy die and add it to the saving throw.

(Difference: any save rather than mental only, lasts 1 save only rather than 1 min)

Mire Mind. You expend 1 Psionic Energy die to block the memories of a creature you can touch. Choose a piece of knowledge it has, a feature it has other than spellcasting, a spell it knows, or an action it can perform other than attacking or casting a spell. You must name the memory you wish to block, if the creature doesn't have such a feature or knowledge this power fails and the Psionic Energy die is expended. It can't do that action for a number of rounds equal to one roll of your Psionic Energy die.

Psi Influence. You expend 2 Psionic Energy dice and cast the charm person spell.

Mental Shutdown. You target a creature you can see within 60 feet of you and expend and roll one of your Psionic Energy die 3 times. If that creature has hit points less than the amount rolled, it falls asleep and is prone and unconscious. Another creature can use its action to wake the creature up from this sleep while within 5 feet of them, otherwise it naturally wakes up after 1 hour.

[heady sequoia]

Deliberately avoiding elemental effects because they dont fit my idea of psionics, but specifically spontaneous combustion sounds pretty sweet

[heady sequoia]

With these itd be

Latent Psionics

You discover untapped psionic power within yourself. You gain 3 Psionic Energy dice, which are a d4. Blah blah stuff about using dice for other features. You choose 2 Psionic Powers from the list of Latent Psionic Powers below, and these powers use your Psionic Energy Dice.

[wanton bluff]

Worth noting that Psi speed can roll as high as 40 feet (Balancing off of level 5, so +3 prof and a d8 psionics die)

I might dial it in by making it a fixed value, with its duration set by the roll - But that makes low rolls suck a lot more IMO

[heady sequoia]

Yeah I was thinking of half die x 5 but this is a draft still lol

[wanton bluff]

ooh, hmm

Ah nvm. Janky idea

I'll mull this over as I go to bed and let you know if I think of anything else

[heady sequoia]

Actually I think this was how it is initially

Gotta find my original psi speed option

[heady sequoia]

Alright heavy rework lol

10 options choose 2

[heady sequoia]

OK so I cant really post this in a main channel yet cause I'd be flooding lol but this is MY POST

Obsidian Blade, a spell that requires coordination between two characters, one the caster and another their blade wielding friend.

Its damage would be equal to fireball, but it requiring (probably) two characters to pull off should make it more reasonable than fireball

It is possible to cast and use this as one character, thats likely gonna be the Eldritch Knight

Oh should say this would probably be an Arti, Dancer, Wiz spell

Also when the blade breaks it returns to normal. Should say that

[slow marten]

I think I'd change the visuals to some form of energy or just "cutting air"

[heady sequoia]

Why? I really like the visual of a sword growing insanely big

plus obsidian is a great fit cause its very sharp but extremely brittle

[wanton bluff]

It is similar to fireball, but is also only single target, and require two actions to pull off

Not to mention the range of touch

[slow marten]

it seems a bit too one the nose

[wanton bluff]

Personally, I really like the idea of big sword

[heady sequoia]

it isnt single, its a wide semi circle slash

[wanton bluff]

I swear to you, I read the bit about the AOE

I questioned in my head "Why is this AOE worded so oddly"

And then I filed it away in the recesses of my mind as irrelevant

[heady sequoia]

Which feels more balanced, cause like fireball is 100% over curve

and while yeah we have to account for fireball existing I dont also wanna break curve even more just cause

[heady sequoia]

tbh with you idk whats wrong with it

[wanton bluff]

Fireball is over the curve, but worth 2 actions over the curve? At third level?

[heady sequoia]

Also technically doesnt require a second action it modifies the first attack of your blade wielder

so if theyre a fighter they get this plus the rest of their attack action

[wanton bluff]

Fair point

[heady sequoia]

Also also its worded similarly to Smite spells. Smite targets "Self", functioning as a buff that modifies an attack

This is Touch that modifies an attack

so this is

1. More balanced way to have an overcurve damage (hopefully)
2. Makes your martial feel cool as well as you
3. Scales with your martial making them actually a key component of the spell

Hmm... also I guess I dont need the unwilling creature clause its not like youd ever use it on an unwilling creature

[heady sequoia]

Unless... I have a penalty for the blade breaking without using it... but its not the point of the spell

[wanton bluff]

Niche case to disarm a super powerful legendary dagger from an evil goblin, or something along those lines

But yeah, good call

[heady sequoia]

Other ideas for this spell to make your martial feel even better:

You can add rage damage to the damage

You can apply Great Weapon Fighting to the damage rolls

You can apply a magic weapon's bonus to the spell. If it has an attack bonus, it is added to the save DC. If it has a damage bonus, it is added to the damage

Flametongue Obsidian Blade go brrrrr

[finite berry]

I won't lie, Obsidian imagery makes me think this could also fit the Druid/Ranger duo, but also I play those classes too much so it's probably just some bias

[heady sequoia]

I'm not sure how obisidian relates to druid and rangers

Update

Also synergizes well with Arti's weapons now

[finite berry]

Druid's get a lot of earth-themed spells and Obsidian is a kind of rock

That's my only reasoning

I do like the concept though, teamwork spell

[heady sequoia]

Just cause its rock doesnt mean its nature themed lol

Also Druid rarely gets powerful burst or even buff spells

They usually get extra powerful control spells

[heady sequoia]

Mind Ravager has an update here on the link, incorporating a suggestion and an idea

Changes:

Psychic Static is removed.
Instead, Mind Strike deals additional Psionic Die damage once per turn. This should encourage the weaving of Mind Strike into the ranger's attack pattern, and was something suggested by @unique flame
New Psionic Power: Psionic Sight. This allows the Ranger to place a psi sensor that acts as a vision extension. This would also allow them to hit at long range without disadvantage.
Psychic Link now only links with one creature. This ability should still be very impactful, providing telepathy, anti mind reading, and psychic resistance to a creature, while not invalidating the Soulknife's telepathic link to multiple creatures.

[unique flame]

I think the Mind Strike thing is great.

You're right, it motivates them to do exactly what you want by mixing mind strikes and normal attacks, but it also lets you use nothing but mind strikes if you need to.

Psionic Sight is a great idea too, but I don't like the rolling for range.

The variance is just so large.

If you need to include the die somewhere, maybe it could be added to perception checks when you look through it?

[heady sequoia]

The variance actually sorta keeps it in check with its spell counterparts, the 3rd level Clairvoyance and 4th level Arcane Eye. It has various benefits over clairvoyance, being able to place it in unfamiliar places, lasting longer, and not being concentration, and over arcane eye, namely seeing equal to your vision, having a longer average range to apply it, and not being concentration. This makes it sorta in between, a farther range but unmoving arcane eye or a closer range longer lasting clarivoyance

[unique flame]

My issue is that the range can just completely invalidate it.

Think of it like if you had to roll for the range of an attack.

You expend the resource, only to find out you can't use the ability at all.

Same thing here, there are so many situations where you might use this and then just have to abandon it immediately because you didn't roll enough range.

So people are inevitably going to only try and use it when they're already within 20 feet of something.

And then it's just not useful.

I appreciate having to keep it in check, but never knowing if you'll actually be able to use your cool ability just isn't fun.

[heady sequoia]

soulknife's teleport I mean I do get it, but I think the fact that you can see it with any distance it still has uses, and the average distance as well as increasing die makes it better range wise than expected.

[heady sequoia]

A trio of team up spells that make your martial essential to the damage and save

[slow geyser]

Mmh I like the idea of spells incentivizing cooperation, but I'm not sure if I'd use martials stats within the effect of the spell

I still think they'd be great and much cleaner in use if DCs and modifiers were the usual ones

(aside from the str requirement, which could stay)

[slow marten]

Well, if you can't rework the spell to only use the martial's attacks, I think keeping their stats does make some sense

though I'd stick to DCs and not bother adding them to damage - spells don't do that anyway

[slow geyser]

(The Hammer level or damage is probably wrong)

[slow geyser]

It kind of makes the spell completely unaffected by the caster and it doesn't feel right to me tbh

The current wording suggests a martial magic ability rather than a spell

[slow marten]

yeah, that's fair. I'd prefer to incorporate both

[slow geyser]

Making them (martial) attacks with an improvement + (caster) saves to avoid the worst side effects could be a solution

[slow marten]

yeah

[slow geyser]

Would also remove the clunky martial-based DC

[heady sequoia]

So actually I wanted to do both, essentially scaling both the die and the bonus the martial gives, but that makes the scaling extremely crazy, unless maybe I go for d4s (but even then thats a scaling better than a d12)

[heady sequoia]

My problem with making these scale purely off the caster, that is to not have the martial add their mod to damage or affect the save, is that it becomes better again for the castsr to just wield and deliver the blow themselves. This way the only one that can do it like that is EK

[heady sequoia]

Hammer's level and damage is right, what made you think it was wrong?

Iceberg hammer actually has an extremely long version that scaled off bpth the caster and martial, with the cold damage being off the caster while the slam was off the martial

But that was very word soupy

[slow geyser]

Not if you keep a minimum Strength requirement (me perhaps even proficiency with the weapon) to use

[heady sequoia]

Thats kinda just enforcing a vessel for the spell rather than actually making the martial an important part. It doesnt validate the martial, just makes them a requirement. It doesnt make the martial feel good, that the spell's damage is good because they helped

[slow geyser]

1 attack 2d10 + str for a 4th level slot?

[heady sequoia]

2d10 + twice str + 2d10

[slow geyser]

I mean the spell is coming from a caster, right now it invalidates the caster. The simple fact a martial must be the one delivering it makes it enough imo

[slow geyser]

Oh I see now, ngl the text is very clunky, especially al the wording related to the martial

[heady sequoia]

It doesnt invalidate the caster. The caster's upcast determines how much of the martial's strength transfers to the spell, and they are the ones who cast it in the first place, determining its effect

[slow geyser]

Str requirement feels like the cleanest version for a similar output imo, which is forcing the caster to cooperate with a martial. Worth considering these spells are hard to cast because the caster must be within reach of a melee martial which isn't very common

[slow geyser]

But all the caster does is expend a spell slot, they don't affect the spell in any way. A lich and an apprentice casting the spell at the same level have the same effect

[heady sequoia]

The fact that the caster must be higher level to determine the slot level also helps

[slow geyser]

Which isn't the case for most spells, which require attack rolls and saves scaling with the caster

[heady sequoia]

But again I did want it to scale both ways

But the scaling goes crazy that way

Iceberg hammer actually has an extremely messy both scale version lol

I can drop it here

But its long af

Cause it splits the cold damage and slam damage

Making the cold scale wirh caster and the slam scale with martial

[slow geyser]

Imo if you want the martial to be part of the effect more than a requirement, I'd di something like this but drop the damage and save scaling with the martial

[heady sequoia]

Thats the point, this isnt most spells

[heady sequoia]

I dont think it achieves the desired effect at all. It just makes the martial a "material" to the spell

[slow geyser]

The current version is a martial class feature at the cost of a caster class resource

Which is a weird design

[heady sequoia]

Again I did want it to scale both ways but its incredibly a mess when done that way

Hold on lemme...

Bam

wall of text lol

[slow geyser]

No definitely too complicated lol

[heady sequoia]

Lmao fr

[slow geyser]

It could just be:
The wielder makes an attack roll
Creatures in determined radius whose AC is hit take damage like a regular attack of that wielder + something and make a save against spellcaster DC to avoid bigger damage or side effects

So that the spell itself doesn't scale with martial features, but it extends the attack to multiple creatures

[heady sequoia]

See thats the thing. I really like that Rage and stuff affects the attack

I want the martial to be an ingredient, not a tool

[slow geyser]

The martial makes an attack roll, which means rage counts

These spells should mirror what Smite spell do essentially

[heady sequoia]

Im very OK with smite style, my problem with smite style is mostly cause the damage output then swings to the big damage weapons, which is why I opted to fix the damage dice and only scale off the modifier

(This partially extends from the worry of doing an aoe GWM, which makes the damage waayyy too wild. Smites at the very least are single target and make it hard to do that, its still bounded)

[slow geyser]

I mean it's only natural it's better with big damage weapons, they are supposed to deal more damage

[heady sequoia]

Yeah but again... AOE GWM really not intended

And also I just felt that fixing the damage die would be better to help it not be so swingy

Im OK with additional effects being off caster, but yeah that leads to the weird and long ass iceberg hammer

[slow geyser]

I mean it kinds of seems arbitrary to remove GWM and leave rage though

though I understand why, but that's a GWM issue, not the spell really

[heady sequoia]

Its more cause GWM is massive from the start, while rage scales on level

Fair

[slow geyser]

if anything, you can purposely require some properties on the target weapon, but it seems arbitrary as well

or even better, you could generate a weapon in the hands of the martial, which means you get to select the properties

and you can avoid giving it the prerequisites of GWM

[heady sequoia]

Kinda what I just did

A 4d8 weapon that can be made with two hands

[slow geyser]

You'd probably need to specify a couple more details, like shadow blade for example

but yeah, I wouldn't worry about minmaxer using already overpowered features with it to be honest

[heady sequoia]

Hmmm ive been trying to find a good bard sub idea... I think this ones my best so far. A short and sweet healing focused Bard, the College of Serenity

[deft plaza]

Tranquility is soooo broken

[heady sequoia]

How so?

[deft plaza]

Its reaction healing equal to 2bardic+Charisma

And 1Bardic + Charisma is free temp

I assume u meant when a creature expends one of the bardics they were given tho

Bc that makes a bit more sense

And is less crazy

[heady sequoia]

They can expend it when they get healed, or you react to when they get healed to boost the heal

[deft plaza]

Im so confused xD

The wording is rather confusing

[heady sequoia]

I dont think so? Its

Step 1: creature regains hit points in any way
Step 2: you use your reaction to boost the heal with a BI
OR
Step 2b: the creature that got healed that has a BI die boosts that healing without a reaction

[deft plaza]

OHHHH

OK SO

It jusy says a creature that has a bardic that regains HP can expend it, the ordering of it made it seem like they could do that when theyre healed from the Bard’s reaction

[heady sequoia]

Mmm yeah I can kinda rearrange that a little

[heady sequoia]

Another Bard sub incoming, College of Revolution. Not sure which way I want to go with the swarm of the masses, either an intangible swarm or a physical summon...

[heady sequoia]

alright so I didnt get a lot of opinions, so we're going with the summon-style. Here's the College of Revolution, a college about gathering the masses and rallying them to fight. I think I may have packed this a bit too much, though I think the one that I likely would cut are some of the Revolutionaries improvements, but idk if its needed or not. https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/owzhLSmfo8Ze

[heady sequoia]

Just realized how confusing Ideological Force is, so here's a correction

[heady sequoia]

Seems fiiiiinneee so far, not many people commented and most didnt really comment on balance, so nothing broken at a glance. I'll probably see what better way to implement Revolutionary Leader, but I think EA for 2 turns will work out fine (with the Cha damage add, it should work out to a 3rd attack for both turns, plus the revolutionaries having 2 actions as well, it should be potent enough)

I'm channeling work stress into brewing....

The Oath of Love Paladin, for those who love to love

[heady sequoia]

Alright gonna pivot away from the Pally sub for now, gonna see if this gets more notice: The School of Education, a teaching wizard sub that plays much more support-y

[heady sequoia]

I'm sneaking this in here to have it saved lol: Pact of the Mask

[maiden inlet]

Thats fun

[heady sequoia]

Should probably have a Eldritch Blast prerequisite on Wild Eyes, but technically this pact requires EB to begin with lol

[hoary schooner]

Isn't the Pact of the Mask mostly irrelevant? Since force damage with some vulnerability exceptions. Think that advantage on a skill check is rather weak and does little to gameplay, just better chance your choice will have a positive outcome. The Shadowed Face is extremely powerful however and might be enough reason alone to work the night shift always. The standard invocations are more fun imho

[heady sequoia]

It is indeed mostly for vulnerabilities and shutting down abilities (like regen for fire or radiant). In a way your question also speaks to Bladepact, EB is far and away better so why does bladepact exist?

I dont think permanent advantage is weak, I mean comparatively its far better than Talisman lol

The other invocs are good too, Embody Element should encourage switching, and combos with Wild Eyes to get your damage but swap to a resistant type after

the physical types are also great with Embody Element

[heady sequoia]

Also another invoc for this

[hoary schooner]

I don't know. If you are fighting a fire elemental you would want fire resistance but fire damage EB at the same time would be useless. Wasting an action on casting EB just to switch to fire for the resistance while negating most damage potential is quite something. That said, of course it is fine and all. The more options the better, there is a place and time for everything

[heady sequoia]

Thats why Wild Eyes exists

[restive leaf]

I would generally rework this to not surround around charm effects, but focus more on buffing. I say this because Charms in DnD are pretty useless except in specific situations, and how they work varies vastly throughout different games depending on the DM.

[heady sequoia]

I mean, theres 2 charm effects out of 5 or so features if you count the two CDs separate

So its not really surrounded by charm effects

It just has em cause its thematic

@restive leaf

[heady sequoia]

https://homebrewery.naturalcrit.com/share/HjvyCjnhSJoH

Just kinda expanding some more creatures around, partially its fueled by the bareness of the elemental planes in terms of anything that isnt a sapient elemental, stuff like water weirds, phoenixes, giant striders and the like and partially getting inspired to convert a pokemon to a dnd monster in some form so like most of them are actually just pokemon lol

Not necessarily asking for feedback or anything just throwin it out seeing if I missed anything or if anyone has good ideas

[heady sequoia]

Idea for a rogue archetype: The Hairblade. Lots of slicing and dicing with hair in media, thinking rogue is a good fit as its a "subtle" weapon a lot of the time

[sharp sphinx]

I love this theme!

[heady sequoia]

So the Golf Bag Fighter probably shouldnt be universal imo, but it is a fantasy some people also have, specifically the image of somewhat who brings a shitton of weapons and swaps between them quickly. Instead of using the weapon masteries and their side effects, I've come up with more of a property tied set of effects, which may be kinda crazy cause of course most things have more than one property. What do you think? I had a hard time thinking of an effect for Medium armor tbh, and also for Thrown (was gonna exclude it like I excluded Ammunition)

definitely point out broken property effect combos that exist or may exist on specific weapons

also debating whether to expand attunement for swap loadout (and whether to explicitly have an extra dimensional space or specify it teleports to you, cause as is its just instant equip from nowhere)

[restive leaf]

I can't tell if for 'Thrown' the wording allows for rerolls in each attack you make. You clarified that you can only use it once per attack, but you still roll a new attack against the second target, thereby meaning that even through the wording of the clarification in that ability, you can still reroll the attack roll because it's a new attack. Am I wrong? I genuinly cannot tell.

[heady sequoia]

Thrown is meant to be hitting a new target essentially, should probably word it to stop the looping clause yeah

[heady sequoia]

Updated version of the Weaponmaster. Ammunition has a skill now, and all skills are "once per turn" to encourage switching (or using multi property stuff). They're not really balanced between each other I think lol, very messy, but lets see what y'all think

[maiden inlet]

Ammunition is too good, its better polearm master

Atleast it doesnt work with sentinel

[heady sequoia]

well this is a subclass, so it should be better. Though the intent is that it causes a decision between it and Reach at the end, but idk theyre not all well balanced lol

I'm very much open to suggestions on alternate effects

[maiden inlet]

Well thats not really true here, since its one of many abilities in a featuee

[heady sequoia]

The Crescent Warrior, a stance Fighter that is forced to change stances every turn.

[maiden inlet]

I remember something like this in the seever

It was op

[restive leaf]

Full Moon is busted. As written, you can use it infinitely as Action Surge requires nothing to activate. The fix would be to add once per turn or something but even that is absolutely busted. Action Surge is probably the most powerful ability Fighters get, so to add an additional one at 3rd level is uber busted.

[slow marten]

Interesting idea, but the execution feels pretty bad. A single stance shouldn't just be better than others for no reason. Similarly, at 15, only two get improvements, and it's two consecutive ones. The whole thing really feels like "free action surge, but only sometimes". Tidal Strikes are nice for the flavor though

[heady sequoia]

There is a one AS per turn limit that already exists in the base rules iirc

If im wrong feel free to correct

[heady sequoia]

Full Moon and New Moon are meant to be better than the other stances by virtue of being the "whole moon" stances. Its partly for flavor

The 15th doesnt improve consecutive ones, it improves the two "whole moon" stances, which are separated by 2 stances