#Problem with print on the 2nd layer not printing correctly.

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

chrome cypress
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Printing multiple files and all are printing fine, except for #4, which prints the colors in a different order, and messes up the print on layer #1406492037112528997

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topaz plaza
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which colour is messing up or is it the 2nd layer evey time, no matter which colour it is

chrome cypress
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On the one with the #4, it's the Blue Color, when it starts printing the 2nd layer.

On the other ones, where it starts with the Blue Color for the skirt, as opposed to the orange, it prints fine. I've printed #1-#3 fine, and when I've tried to print #4, its been messing up consistently on the blue (as pictured) when it gets to it. I think it's odd, that this is the only one of the prints that starts with the color Orange as a skirt (and the first color to print) as opposed to the other ones, which starts with the blue parts first.

That's why I was thinking that it might be a sofware bug.

topaz plaza
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ive just noticed your trying to print petg onto pla,

chrome cypress
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I'm using the PLA as a support for the PETG. So far, its worked great.

topaz plaza
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what material is the 1st layer and what is the 2nd layer on the one that is ok and the one that fails

chrome cypress
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This is what the print looks like when complete.

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topaz plaza
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is that layer 1 in pla and the rest in petg

chrome cypress
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It's PETG in the center (blue) with PLA around the edge (PLA), because it needs some side support for a part that's lifted off the build plate, and of course the back part, which is in the air. The rest is all PETG.

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See here.

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topaz plaza
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ok, and the next layer fails?

chrome cypress
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Yes, but only on this print, not on the others. Like I said, it's odd that on the other prints, it starts printing the Blue Color first, folowed by the Red (number) then the Orange, and then Green PETG, then the Green PLA, and then starts with the Blue on Layer 2, and continues in that order.

But on the failed print, it starts with Orange, then Red, then Blue for layer 1, then Green PLA, and then goes back to Red, Orange and Green PETG, and then on the Blue PETG, it spurts and seems to have a pressure problem or something, totally weird. Especially when the only things that's different about the file is the number in the center.

topaz plaza
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do you print then all at the same time or one at a time

chrome cypress
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And the other weird thing, is that on the purge tower, just before it messes up the print, the lines for the blue are perfectly fine. There's no problems there, but as soon as it comes to the prints and finishes the border and starts to do layer lines inside the print, it spurts like crazy..

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I print them 1 at a time.

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This is what the others i've printed look like.

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topaz plaza
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can you post the 3mf file

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for the number 4

chrome cypress
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sure, hold a sec.

topaz plaza
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your using the release verion of orca?

chrome cypress
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Yes, I have to use the release version, because there is a bug in the Stable Version, where when it tries to purge material for the Green PLA, it won't purge enough material onto the purge tower and prints with the color still left in the nozzle, so I would either have to pause the print and purge the nozzle manually, or use the Alpha (Nightly) version, which fixes that problem.

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Sorry, it won't purge any of the material (not enough), but none. It's documented somewhere, I can look it up for you if you'd like.

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That's in Layer 1.

topaz plaza
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which version number are you using ?

chrome cypress
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I'm using last nights Nightly Build.

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topaz plaza
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ok, there are still bugs in that version so if ypu post it on git hub you will need to put its the alph release.

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better to get the bug fixed in the stable version first

chrome cypress
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I can try and open it in the stable version and see if it changes anything. What do you think?

topaz plaza
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yes try the stable version

chrome cypress
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I just opened the file in the stable version, and it shows the same thing on the #4, starts with Orange color first, and not the blue.. Weird huh?

topaz plaza
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but does it print ?

chrome cypress
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I don't know.. I will try it, and report back..

chrome cypress
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So, I just confirmed that it's happening on both versions of the program. I even tried to see if it would do it on a different color filament from a different extruder, and yup, still happened.

It can't be my hardware, because I printed this yesterday, with red filament and it came out good.

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And also, the fist layer is good also..

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topaz plaza
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ok, let me look at the file that you posted

chrome cypress
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I also tried printing #5, and it was also a no-go. Odd.

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topaz plaza
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if you just print a square tile say 20mm x 20mm is layer 2 ok

chrome cypress
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I can try. let me do it.. Hold

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So, do I make the cube in fusion, like 4mm thick, so that it prints 2 layers?

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The square I mean

topaz plaza
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you can use a primative in orca

chrome cypress
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Ok, I am using a 2 layer disc. It should be ready in 15 minutes..

chrome cypress
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Well, that printed perfectly, no problems. Here's 2 pics, one as its printing, and the other when done.

Printing.jpg 20250823_014456.jpg
topaz plaza
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so it must be slicer settings , do you have different settings for the others

chrome cypress
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Nope. same settings for the others. Other than just having multiple filaments, and filament colors, but the settings are the same. Look, how nice this printed out..

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topaz plaza
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whats different about the mutiple filament between number 4 and 5

chrome cypress
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Dunno. I reworked some files in Fusion 360 to add a plug in the back, but they all got the same change. Maybe I'll try printing 0 again, and see if it does the same thing like 4 or 5. When I printed that one , I was asleep, so I didn't really notice anything until the morning when it was done.

topaz plaza
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i think its settings more than a bug

chrome cypress
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I'm gonna try to print #3 again, that's the last one I printed that completed, and see if it does the same thing.

chrome cypress
topaz plaza
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thats what you need to work out🤣

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you need to compare the files to see if they are the same, and make sure the modles are ok, you said you modified them?

chrome cypress
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No, I modified the files all at the same time in Fusion 360, and then started printing, and only when I got to #4 did it get like this. Like I said, I'm gonna try to print #3 again and see if its ok. That way we can eliminate settings, since it's all the same file settings for all of the beds..

topaz plaza
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just looked at you r filament profiles , they seem to be based on ASA so some of the settings are a little strange , is that correct?

chrome cypress
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I don't think they are based on ASA, I choose the PETG files from Orca and renamed them, the same for the PLA..

topaz plaza
chrome cypress
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So far the print is going ok. This is the end of layer 1. Layer 2 is coming up..

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topaz plaza
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sofar so good

chrome cypress
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Ok, that's odd. It started doing the same thing with this print as well. I do remember that I changed the settings to wipe while retracting before I started number 4, and now it's doing it to this one too. I wonder if that's the bug. I'm gonna turn that feature off and try to reprint again, maybe that's the culprit.

topaz plaza
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its not always a bug 😆

chrome cypress
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Well, it's not a feature if it breaks something.. 🙂

topaz plaza
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you can break a print by using the wrongs settings , thats not a bug , thats user error

chrome cypress
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But I just printed the round object with Retract while printing, and it was fine. So, if this fixes it, why would it break a print, if it's not a bug?

topaz plaza
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the round print you did would have only done 1 retract on layer chage , but your prints is doing multiple,

chrome cypress
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You could be right. Let's see what happens.. Layer 1 is almost done, and we will see what happens in a few minutes.

chrome cypress
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Nope. No Go. Still the same problem. I think its a bug. I'm gonna get some sleep and maybe you can think of something in the meantime. I gotta get up early tomorrow, so I'll talk to you later.

topaz plaza
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try printing the part in just one colour

chrome cypress
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Well, printing with only 1 filament color worked great. The 2nd layer, laid down really well, and looks great. So, I think the BUG, must be in the multicolor part, maybe it's not extruding enough material, because it has a math bug somewhere. What do you think??

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topaz plaza
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2 colours but not the same as before, and both of them be petG, dont use PLA at all in the print

topaz plaza
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i checked the flow on the second layer it looks correct

chrome cypress
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So, I went ahead and printed in 2 colors, with a purge tower, and although the 2nd layer managed to print, it wasnt a perfect layer, and it does look like under extrusion both in the purge tower and in the layer itself. Check it out.

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topaz plaza
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The second layer does look much better, was that just petg material.

chrome cypress
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Yes, it was both Petg. But it still shows some delamination, especially in the beginning (right side) and gets better towards the end (left side). Also in the middle where the P is, shows delamination, and that was put down before in infill. So, i dont know if thats because of low pressure. I am wonderinf if this has got something to do with Pressure Advance. I did change it from .1 to .005, since you said .1 was too high. Maybe ill try printing another test with .1 PA. What do you think?

topaz plaza
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de-lamination can be a few things , mainly to low temperature for the filament or to much cooling

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what temperature are you printing the petg at?

topaz plaza
chrome cypress
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Im printing at 250/70.. no fan

topaz plaza
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try 255

chrome cypress
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Ok..

topaz plaza
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what make of petg was it?

chrome cypress
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Sorry, I haven't done much this weekend. Had a rough schedule doing family obligations. My make is Polymaker PETG. I'm running the test with 255 now..

chrome cypress
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So, heres the test. It looks a lot better at 255. Seems to have no delamination. I also turned off pressure advance.

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So, i think I should try the original colors again (5 colors) with these settings and see how it goes? Whats your thoughts?

topaz plaza
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That's looking better

chrome cypress
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So, I went ahead and tested the print with removing PA and setting the temperature to 255/70, and i think it worked better. Didnt get any delamination, and flow seemed better.

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And so, it seemed to print much better, and actually got a complete print. I am gonna try #5 today and see if everything continues working.

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chrome cypress
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Ok, so odd thing that #5 is pretty much doing the same thing again for layer 2. Dont know why? Ill let it run and see if it continues..

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chrome cypress
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So, layer 4 seems to be back to printing fine again, other than the holes left by layer 2 not printinf right. . I am still thinking there is some bug when you have a combination of a purge tower, 5 colors, petg and pla. Something isnt right. Im gonna keep it going see how it does.

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topaz plaza
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It could be pla contamination try a longer purge to get rid of the pla

topaz plaza
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Or just try print the whole thing in petg, using the multiple colour system like you have says you should use filaments with the same heat profiles

chrome cypress
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So, first of all. I want to thank you for all of your help with everything. Secondly, I'd like to apologize to you for not listening when you first told me that it was probably something mechanical that was wrong with my printer. I was so sure that everything was correct, that I dismissed your advise and thought it might be software related. I found the problem, and you were right it was mechanical. I had a problem where no filament was flowing anymore, and I thought it was a clog. But it didn't sound like a clog, as when there's a clog, the gears kind of grind on the filament, and it's obvious that it's tryiing to push filament through, but not able because of an obstruction, causing a grindind down of the filament.

So, as I took the extruder apart, I found no clog, and everything looked fine. As is my usual routine, I then start an extruder to make sure there that there is no filament stuck inside the Direct extruder, expecting to see filmanet come out the bottom (past the gears), before it gets to the hot nozzle. Since I removed the hot nozzle part to clear it of any clogs. But lo and behold, when it gets inside the Direct Drive, nothing comes out the bottom. But again, no grinding sound. So I find this odd. So, I went ahead and opened the Direct Drive extruder, thinking I would find some stuck filament, but wouldn't you know it. I found that the extruder gears screw had come loose and was no longer turning with the motor. See Picture.

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chrome cypress
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So, this must have been what was causing the problems with the printer not being consistent. On some prints, it was flowing filament properly, but in others, it wasn't (probably because the screw was getting looser) until it finally came out enough that it just spun the gear, and pretty much made it useless. So, I went ahead and tightened the screw down harder (hopefully it sticks), and I am going to run the flowrate and PA test, and see if I get different results, in case it was getting loose when I ran those tests.

I'll let you know how it goes, but like I said, I think that was the issue all along. I'll keep you up to date on the results..

I am gonna run the FlowRate test with the circles and see if it's easier to spot a diference than the old one.

topaz plaza
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No problem , its a learning curve , ive been printing for over 10 years and still learning, dont forget to remove the git hub entry

chrome cypress
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Thanks, yeah, I just closed the entry in the Github explaining that it was a loose screw.

topaz plaza
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although it taken up a bit of time its been a good learning exercise for you

chrome cypress
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Definitely has been a great learning exercise for me. I just feel sorry that you have had to put up with my learning issues, that's why I thank you for your patience, and helpfulness.

chrome cypress
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So, what am I looking for in the circles?

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brazen mica
chrome cypress
chrome cypress
brazen mica
# chrome cypress And I am going to assume that nothing changes in the way I calculate the NONE YO...

Pass 1/2 actually uses very different math if you flow ratio is anything other than 1.0 to start with. The Wiki has instructions on what that is.

Personally, my process is to set flow ratio to 1.0, run Pass 1, change the flow ratio as needed, then run YOLO (perfectionist), and change flow ratio as needed again. In this way, the math actually does stay the same, you cover the greatest range needed, and get the most accurate final result.

chrome cypress
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And on the YOLO, I simply use the modifier and add or remove to the New Flow Ratio I got in Pass 1.

On the writeup, you said that you would be using not the smoothest circle, but the one that's next up, where there is a slight hint of the ridge. Is that correct for both tests, or would you recommend something else? You also said that in the YOLO, you should add a .01, is that still correct if I follow your method?

brazen mica
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And yes, the ridge is correct for both tests, except that on Pass 1 you don't need to add the 0.01 to it.

chrome cypress
brazen mica
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At least, that's exactly how I do it anyway.

chrome cypress
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Well, you and @topaz plaza know more than I do, so I trust you both more than I trust myself.

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I will also say, that I do prefer the Circle Flow Test, than the original one. It seems easier, and less subjective to know which is the right flow ratio to pick from.

brazen mica
topaz plaza
brazen mica
# topaz plaza its really hard to see on photos

It was realistically just as hard in person. After staring at it for 10min with a 10x magnifying glass...still couldn't see the difference between them, but I can promise the -10 definitely had gaps in the lines.

topaz plaza
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i have never used the tiles to calibrate my printers, i understand why people like them its kind of easy to run the file and you get a value to use

chrome cypress
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That's because we can't all be like "SUPER TEAM VALKYRIE".. Some of us are mere mortal men, and not Superman.

chrome cypress
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So far, your calibration method was really good. I was able to get the Pass 1, with a .9 flow ratio, and then ran the YOLO Perfectionist, and I got a .88 (Final Flow). I'm printing file #5 now, and it has gotten passed the 2nd layer, and in fact, the layers look better than they had before. So, I think it will be a very nice print. I'm also hopeful that it will also make my prints tolerances better.

topaz plaza
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0.88 seems abit low ive seen setting like this with either wet filament or bad steps /mm

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if you measure your filament is it 1.75 mm

chrome cypress
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Yeah, 1.75mm. And I have the fiament in a dry box, with those beads. I suppose I could put the filament in the dryer later and see if I get different numbers, but I'll see after this print what it looks like. But you may be right, maybe I need to refresh the pellets and dry them.. Although I live in Southern California with almost no humidity and temperatures in the 90-100 degrees Fahrenheit. So, I don't think that air moisture is a big problem for me here.

topaz plaza
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from all the settings ive seen 0.94 to 1 seems to be the norm,

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using silica gel just stops the filament getting "wetter" it doesn't seem to dry it the only way is heat., vacuum or both

chrome cypress
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Ok. I thought the silica pellets dried the filament. So, maybe I have to put my filament in the dryer, they have been in the box for a couple of weeks with the silica, and haven't dried it. Could be that you are right AGAIN!!

topaz plaza
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i live in a humid place its 60%RH today and the Roll of TPU ive had out for the past 2 days is starting to pop , the only way i can get it dry is to heat it up then i store it in a container with silical gel,

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even when its in a "sealed " container the humidity creeps up to 30%RH in about 4 weeks

chrome cypress
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How long do you think that a filament should last in a dry box? I have mine in a sealed dry box with a digital display showing the humidity, but the gauge doesnt go lower than 20% even if its lower humidity, but does go up if it get humider.

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topaz plaza
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i usally dont print if the filament is over 25%RH

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im just looking at my containers now they are at 18%,10%,27%!,14%,10%

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the 27% one will need drying

chrome cypress
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I need to find gauges that show a more accurate display. I got these from Amazon, but I think someone said that these chinese ones don't go lower than 20%, so that sucks.

topaz plaza
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the ones from Aliexpress go to 10%RH

chrome cypress
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Do you have a link by any chance?

topaz plaza