Religions shouldn't have their doctrines treated as "fun" mechanic

[low patrol]

Curretly Calvinism has a modifier that makes their battle dice stationary due to the religion modifier "Everything is Preordained".

Predestination, and not Preordaination, is a central doctrine in Calvinism.
It's viewed as God's eternal sovereign decree, "the eternal decree of god" (Institutes of the Christian Religion, B. 3, ch. 21); placing predestination withing the the doctrine of salvation, giving "comfort, humility, assurance" when correctly teached, but he warns against "idle curiosity" or "abusive speculation".
Calvin's works were life changing in Switzerland, and the Christian World.

And he even talks about war (the concept of predestination is being used in it):
“For even wars are lawful, when undertaken to restrain the fury of the wicked, to succor the oppressed, and to restore tranquillity."
(Institutes, 4.20.11);
“Private men are not permitted to take up arms, but magistrates, to whom the sword is committed, may lawfully do so.”
(Institutes, 4.20.10–11) @compact nexus: "I think Calvinists shouldn't have sellswords because of this."
“Let princes not be rash in entering war, nor carried away by passion, nor let them employ any craft or cruelty.”
(Institutes, 4.20.12)
“The Lord alone gives peace; therefore, though they fight, it is He who gives success.”
(Institutes, 4.20.13)

Calvin warns people to not be hasty onto violence, and "tranquility" is viewed as a more christian means to life.
In no place is this referenced in the modifier for war in-game. Instead we have a stationary dice that doesn't produce "fun" as a game mechanic.

As six sided dice medium goes, it will tend to an 3.5.
Dice rolling has been a core mechanic in the game since the first installment, being taken from Tabletop EU. It also means that more than half of the time, battle while playing as a Calvinist will be frustrating (3 numbers below and above 3.5).

A more creative and historical approach to the matter would be to make defensive (or justified) wars have bonuses for their troops, as they fight accordingly to their religious doctrine.

It would also be agreeable with how pdx has intented on treating other religions in-game, being as close to reality as they could.

"That's a rough summary of a game that goes into incredibly granular depth on everything from diplomacy to religion to technology, and in which a huge part of the appeal is that very detail. Andersson talks about how the new game will simulate people, or "pops", and how they'll impact on events." PDX in an interview to PCGamer

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/strategy/paradox-says-where-were-going-we-dont-need-no-marketing-plan-as-it-just-shows-off-and-chats-about-the-unannounced-europa-universalis-5/
https://www.pcgamer.com/games/strategy/europa-universalis-5s-unusual-year-long-reveal-was-a-lesson-paradox-learned-from-imperators-mixed-reception-i-wanted-to-do-it-a-little-bit-earlier-but-marketing-people-tend-to-get-panicky-when-you-start-talking/

Religions shouldn't have their doctrines treated as "fun" mechanic

[astral arrow]

I do get your point against removing gamey abstractions, however i am also not sure a “justified war” mechanic makes much sense, as its arguably a doctrine not only in all of christianity but indeed in most religions of the world and is already covered, if indirectly, through the CB/no CB system

I think the dice roll thing for calvinism is a lot more gamey than the rest of the eu5 but i dont think it will per se ruin the immersion so i also dont think it effects me one way or the other until someone does the math and prove its either really good or really bad ¯_(ツ)_/¯

But i do get the uhh desire to move away from the gaminess of 4 so i cant see wanting even small unnecessary gaminess removed

[low patrol]

I was thinking on a solution that kept modifiers on dice rolls for calvinism, but you're right on that religions, as a whole, shunned unjustified violence.
But I have no other idea on how keeping with the original dev-view on dice "bonuses".

[astral arrow]

I think as is its not even a bonus per se- at least to my understanding statistics- almost more an easter egg?

[low patrol]

I do think it's a debuff, given the whole 3.5 medium, and the chances being 50% above or bellow it.
But i put "bonus" in quotation because that's how it's perceived in-game

[astral arrow]

Id have to see some numbers before knowing that its a debuff

[low patrol]

https://www.reddit.com/r/EU5/comments/1occ5yt/does_calvinism_sucks_in_multiplayer/

Saw a reddit thread on the same subject

From there:
"bbqftw
Its strange to me that for a fan base that supposedly desires more historicity it's fine to have complete meme fantasy mechanics like this. Could have been an interesting exploration of how Calvin viewed church and state, but "predestination funny" I guess"

"Silver_Falcon
Yeah... I think I'm with you on this one. When I first heard about the Calvinist "predestination" mechanics, I genuinely thought the devs were just making a joke. When I found out they were serious, I became very concerned."

[compact nexus]

I think Calvinists shouldn't have sellswords because of this.

[low patrol]

Interesting approach.

[low patrol]

Yep. Is just that I was looking so much for the modifier they currently have in-game, that I did not account for how they could be changed and made unique in other aspects. Good thing you saw it.

[astral arrow]

Catholics banned fighting certain days of the week it doesnt always mean much

[compact nexus]

You have days in the game, could have that they can't initiate a fight or have a lower morale defending.

[astral arrow]

But catholics didnt actually do that

So need to show it

[compact nexus]

losing Papal points and relations with Papacy when going against religious law as a catholic

[astral arrow]

But like everyone did it and no one really cared

[compact nexus]

Church always cares

[astral arrow]

Not functionally

[coarse stump]

I like the gamey abstractions, like Hinduism looks really cool.

Calvinism is the only one I felt went a bit too far.

[keen shale]

It's way too gamey imo

And makes 0 thematic sense

[low patrol]

Getting interesting things is cool to make uniqueness. But I think pdx lost their hand and went overboard in this joke.
I mean, they didn't get the name of the doctrine right.

[runic sable]

Kinda how the Pope tried to ban crossbows, everyone ignored the pope and the pope gave up

its actually a big part of why the crusades changed papal power so much

all this catholic kingdoms taking up arms in the first crusade, set the precident that the pope could call crusades

[runic sable]

I'm also pretty 50/50 on this

Im fine with more gamey religious mechanics as long as religions also have less gamey mechanics

[runic sable]

I feel like it's a double edged sword

on one hand you'll never roll really good, but also never roll really bad?

Maybe it could get a small buff where they move it up a tiny little bit

Like 3, 3.5, 4

to make it a bit better but also better represent it as an average?

[blissful nimbus]

From the dev diary I understood that you roll the dice once, at the start of combat, and then it says like that. So you still have the good and bad rolls and you still have the same average as with normal combat dice

[keen shale]

Except it's much more susceptible to random swings

Since a bad roll or a good roll will have a much higher effect

Over the course of a single game