Potential improvements for Hameln

[strange mantle]

Hameln is a limited support that has card cost\arithmetica manipulation and double play as his main gimmick, but in recent times his effectiveness in astral reign has been a bit lacking for most teams.

His current problems are:

• He is supposed to be a Keyflare unit, but he normally don't generate almost any (if you haven't his personal SSR invested) because the Rondo is played for free to get the insight in the deck (that doesn't generate it), and the Overture is either removed or keep in hand until is low or 0 cost.
• His Rouse is too slow for the price you have to pay in keyflare and arithmetica. You start to get his 0 cost cards only the turn AFTER you play it, so you will be +1 arithetica positive only 2 turn after, or have to pay even more for the card double play option. The game has become more keyflare demanding and faster for most teams, so his slower effect is difficult to make effective use of.
• His exalt seems like a centerpiece of his utility, but compared to other limited supports like Thais, it offer a more limited selection of cards after the first use and less discount. And is generally slower to recharge because the Crescendo effect is only 3 aliemus and it need you to already have exalted and played the card.

Proposed changes:

• Give his 3 cost Overture the additional effect: Generate 0.5 of the user keyflare on hit (as an example of the possible numbers). So that you are encouraged to keep the card and actually have a use for it and the extra hits it can do if it reach 0 or is double played (Similar to his SSR but minor and more versatile).
• Make so his Rouse immediately give a 0 cost card after it has been played. So you can start to be arithmetica positive from the turn after and enable more plays.
• Increase the Cresendo aliemus gain to 5, and limit his soulforge activation to 3 (with more str). And apply it to his Rouse cards.

If you have other suggestions or opinions, free to leave them in the comments to update the post.

[alpine scaffold]

Yeah I agree with the changes

Tho the rouse change can either make it cheaper or just give the 0 cost now

The latter option has the benefit of giving you double play rondo from get go

[hardy nacelle]

Agree tbh. I end up always leaving his rouse for last or 3rd because it's too slow and pretty much anything else is better. Best part of hameln is his insight mechanic and exalt atp (and you can't even farm his exalt property)

[strange mantle]

The 0 cost immediately give more flexibility if to use it or save it, I think.

[hardy nacelle]

Using a Rouse to be immediately weaker (unless you double posse a +6 arith or whatever) and then needing 2 turns to recover the debt just feels bad

His Overture point is also true, always either removed, used after all prepares or when you literally don't have anything else to exalt because of the crescendo blocking rondo mechanic

His actual keyflare capacities end up just being what any character can do; Hold Life Drain/Dusk and Dawn and exist

[strange mantle]

bump, if someone has something to add

[eager quarry]

people don't mind his exalt restrictions? compared to thais, who also has "double cast" with discount on exalt, he cannot use it on any generated, exhaust, or previously marked cards, it feels unnecessarily limiting?

if they think another thais-like double cast is too op and such limitation must stay, then perhaps he could at least make marked cards generate more skey or aliemus to its owner additionally when played? (like a duet of sorts, which fits his theme and skey role?)

[alpine scaffold]

His exalt does feel oddly restricting

[strange mantle]

Thais also can't target derived cards, but his exalt is still more limiting in most situations, and a bit harder to charge.
Maybe they could change how Crescendo and his soulforge works. In place of 3 aliemus when you play a Crescendo card, and up to 5 activation per turn with insights. They could charge 5 aliemus and lower the cap to 3, so you can get the full 15 aliemus with only 3 uses of insight.

[eager quarry]

I feel that the real problem with his exalt limitation which cannot target the same card twice is that it has diminishing returns in most decks -- often there are a couple of high priority cards for double cast, beyond which it becomes, sure nice to have a cheap double cast but it doesn't do much... so if they must keep this restriction, perhaps having an incentive to spread out his crescendos, say, linking them so that if any crescendo is played, the rest in hand are auto cast for free (like a symphony?)...

[strange mantle]

The point of making his rouse more usable would also help with the need of doublecasting cards

To also incentivize the use of the rouse, we could also add the Crescendo effect when you play the 0 costs

[eager quarry]

that's true... his kit design still feels a bit oddly oriented towards personal dps for a support, perhap another way is to boost his dps in such a way that he could be viable as a (sub)dps with reasonable investment too...

not entirely sure what biav wants ham's identity to be right now...

[strange mantle]

He is in a bit of a strange limbo like others (tinct-riker) where he is a utility bot but has part of the kit that also give him negligible damage if not stupidly invested

[violet condor]

It is pretty weird for a character whose main strength is generating value over several turns with rouse to also have an exalt that functionally loses value over time

But i think its ok for his rouse to be a bit slow, i feel like hes more interesting now that he isnt just generically strong everywhere like he was in arc 1

And you can already go arith positive with it on turn 2 if you play him with a character that has an card that refunds its cost

[cyan viper]

bump

[alpine scaffold]

bump

[cyan viper]

bump

[strange mantle]

We are waiting for a translation for this, before pushing it, could be done today

[steel arch]

holy moly that's amazing

[strange mantle]

哈姆林是一位限定辅助角色，其核心机制围绕卡牌减费/算力加成以及双发牌效展开。但在如今的星辰篇当中，他对于大多数队伍的增益都略显不足。

他当前存在的问题如下：

1.他本应是一位银钥型单位，但正常情况下却几乎无法产生任何银钥能量（如果你没有他的专属SSR命轮的话），因为“回旋曲”是免费打出以将“追忆灵感”置入牌库的（此操作不产生银钥），而“灵魂序曲”要么被移除，要么留在手中直到其消耗降至0或变为0费，同样无法产生银钥能量。

2.他的“觉醒”技能相对于其所需的银钥和算力代价而言，节奏过于缓慢。你只有在打出唤醒的下一回合才能开始获得他的0费卡牌，这意味着你需要在两回合后才能实现算力正向收益，或者不得不为双重施放选项支付更多算力。当前游戏对大多数队伍而言，银钥需求更高且节奏更快，因此他偏慢的效果难以有效发挥。

3.他的狂气爆发看似是其功能性的核心，但与泰旖丝等其他限定辅助相比，它在使用后可选择的卡牌范围更窄，算力折扣也更少。且充能速度普遍更慢，因为“蓄势乐音”效果仅提供3点狂气，且需要你已经开过大招并打出过该卡牌。

建议的改动方案：

1.为他的3费“灵魂序曲”增加额外效果：命中时生成使用者银钥充能0.5倍的银钥能力（此处数值仅为示例）。这样一来，玩家会更有动力保留这张卡牌，并使其在降至0费或被双重施放时带来的额外打击也有了实际用途（类似于他的SSR命轮效果，但弱化且更通用）。

2.使其“觉醒”在打出后立即提供一张0费卡牌。这样玩家可以从下一回合开始便实现算力正向收益，并解锁更多战术选择。

将“蓄势乐音”的狂气获取量提升至5，并将他的“灵塑适性”激活次数限制为3次（但提升获取的力量），并将此改动应用于其“觉醒”获得的卡牌上。

以上为与其他玩家共同交流后形成的普遍性反馈。官方可自由决定是否实施，或将其作为参考，自行斟酌问题的应对方案。
@halcyon burrow

[steel arch]

Not related, but does all these things need to be translated to traditional chinese script before asking mods?

[strange mantle]

Technically no, but I do it so that they can understand it more easily

[nova quest]

Bump

This is pretty much exactly what ive been thinking after getting hameln. In theory hes super cool but after getting him i found myself not wanting to play him in any team because of these exact issues

[crimson root]

agreed to pretty much everthing said in here, the only card of Hameln I've been using recently (including his rouse) is Memory Rondo

[cyan viper]

bump

[violet condor]

One thing that could also help would be taking bleed out of the pool of Overture's potential debuffs to make the other ones apply a bit more often instead. At least poison can occasionally be useful as a relic trigger, but no one has ever thought, "I really hope my Hameln puts 800 bleed on this 1m hp boss"

[vital burrow]

The only 2 hameln dps players will be sad

[violet condor]

If Hameln DPS is actually a concern maybe they could increase the damage to poison ratio to compensate

[eager quarry]

those 100 poison stacks are gonna generate some real value over several turns

[nova quest]

Hameln

DPS?

https://klipy.com/gifs/wtf-what-53

[cyan viper]

tell biav that
look at his E3 and AA

[hardy nacelle]

His wheels both encourage attacking too

One of them even gives crit chance 💀

[cyan viper]

[cyan viper]

[cyan viper]

[cyan viper]

Ham pls don’t be a bum anymore

[rough swift]

Nuh uh, he is forever cursed to be a worse version of Casiah

[final arch]

I mostly agree, but his keyflare abilities are a bit understated. Memory rondo costs 3 arith, but refunds you 2 insights.

You basically spend 1 arith to draw 2 cards and generate 300% keyflare.

[rough swift]

Damn, that's almost as good as Aigis

[final arch]

A bit better than aigis I think? The 2 insights trigger crescendo for 6 aliemus and a bunch of bonus str.

Doubling rondo with his rouse card turns that into 1 arith for 500% keyflare, draw 4, 12 aliemus, 10 str, 100+ temp str

[hardy nacelle]

He quickly runs out of actual good things to use his exalt on and his Rouse (which spends keyflare on it's own btw) is arith negative for atleast 2 turns

Also soul overture is a fake skill

Hameln is a keyflare bot and card draw support that... Needs another keyflare bot and card draw support to work properly

Very Memory Rondo reliant (can't use dreams of medicine because of Soul Overture btw), and he gets worse past the first Rondino (which is the entire point of his fast aliemus generation)

[final arch]

He is a bit better with ultra units who thrive off of double leap/quasar, but yeah it is kinda awkward he can't rondino the same card twice

(E.g: Castor puts out double/triple plumes)

[cyan viper]