Raid Problems and Solutions (The feedbacks have been shared with Light )

[weary ginkgo]

This is a post that will be updated with everyone opinions on what are the most relevant problems and most effective solutions, to then push the feedback directly to Light, free to share yours opinions and argument it below.

Problems:

• **1) **Limited quantity of clears before the stage is removed (unfair for different time zones and can exclude a big number of the growing community, making the event feel more competitive than collaborative);
• **2) **Too many runs per Stage to get the maximum number of Rewards (even if completing all the clears is not mandatory, for who can even do it, the feeling of loosing on precious materials is grading, and so people may feel pressured to complete all the clears they can and burn out on the game);
• 3) Necessity of using a Support on every stage (this is a minor annoyance and possibly mitigated if we reduce the total clears needed).

Possible Solutions:

• 1) Make so each boss has a Community Goal that will be reached after a certain number of combined clears with the help of all the players, giving a rewards to everyone that did 1 clear in it, even after the goal is reached (the stage will not be closed after the goal is set, so that people can still complete the 5 clears listed below, so the event will instead have a Set Duration, like a month);
• **2) ** Condense the Rewards per run, so you get more for the first clear, and a bit less on each subsequent one in the same stage (with a possible cap for the silver and rare material at the 5th, or around that, with additional clears giving only exp and counting for the Total Community Goal).

**Extra Possible Suggestion: **

• 1) The possibility to let players use the same Support, but give incentives to utilize different ones;
• 2) Give a series of recommended "Trial Awakeners" on each stage for people to freely use, so people that don't have a lot of units can still experiment with them (and maybe decide to pull for them later);
• 3) If people clear more than 5, like 8\10 in a stage (to help the Community Goal), they can get a small cosmetic reward;

[azure harness]

good stuff

[finite sigil]

love the optimism of thinking light cares about raid feedback after completely ignoring all feedback over the course of the entire past year

all of this is literally just repeating what's been said 10000x times, he didn't listen the first two times, he's not going to listen now

light knows all of this and deliberately chose to ignore it, what makes the third time any different

[weary ginkgo]

Oh, i will make it very clear that this implementation of raid is a NET NEGATIVE for the game, and if the team don't put in place some of this changes it will be horrible for new and current players

and if they don't listen, then there is nothing more that we can do

will give this last chance

[delicate citrus]

I thought of a fun solution to some issues - add the 'beating the dead horse' mode to the boss.
The idea is this - there are still 50k attempts per boss. But when they expire the boss enters a 'dead horse' state - 'hp is reduced to 1 and all revives are removed'. At this point people can still enter the raid and kill it with literally 1 attack of anything and still get the clear reward. They will not be counted for leaderboard for balance.
All bosses will remain open for this for a week after the last one dies. That way anyone who is late can get all the rewards with less trouble and without time limitations.

[weary ginkgo]

mmmh, that is possible but not super interactive, the original proposal accounted for the fact that people can partecipate even after the Community Goal is reached

and they can get the majority of rewards with the first clear of the stage

and they can make it canon with the classic "the eyes gaze is averted, but the shadow of their passage still linger" or stuff like that

[delicate citrus]

well, I was thinking that if we want to make it more accessible, then an option to have a super low difficulty at the very end is the best. Adding a ton of different whales and taking a long time for each fight is still a really annoying part even without the time limits

[weary ginkgo]

but, as i said, you only need 1 clear per stage for most of the rewards, that is a good compromise in participation and rewards

if you literarily don't have to do noting, they can send you a mail at that point

[stark jasper]

yeah it does feel odd considering they had two raids, first one being bad, sure its first one.
Second one, it has ups and downs,

Third one should have been the perfected raid, so yeah im coping that a fourth raid happens and maybe to become a monthly thing, ofc it should have reduced rewards to not be insane.

just cause, not many gachas have raids

[weary ginkgo]

if they apply the right changes, it could be a nice reccurent thing, not too much to make it borring tho

[drowsy sky]

This is just claiming rewards in mail with extra steps.
The ideal outcome is a fun gameplay mode for all

[stark jasper]

and being locked to one unique support person per run is trying to mimic the use of guilds, where you go with other friends to mess up a boss

but it should have been kept as an option not a must

[weary ginkgo]

5 support per stage, with 5 clears for max rewards is still under the 100 follow limit too, so that is another problem solved

[stark jasper]

also its not like i needed to use a whale support

i just used some randoms

since they get scaled up its no big deal

[weary ginkgo]

that is a bit annoying, that is why there are some options in the Extra Suggestions

[stark jasper]

the whale must was just so you would have to do it 17 times quickly

[delicate citrus]

yeah, then a complete redesign is needed for the battle itself. That fight is just a copy of an end game challenge (at that point) that needs planning and specific teams, there is no way that a complex fight like this can be farmable for normal people. The level 50-60 event fights that started a week ago look more like a relatively easy repeatable fight
PS Yeah, giving all rewards after one clear is probably the easiest way to fix this mess

[stark jasper]

like most raids in gachas for example Guardian tales has or had (idk how it is now i havent played it for like years) has you do 3 runs a day and thats it

the next raid event if its just cumulative based and not touch anything else, maybe downgrade the rewards on clear, will be far less pressing to try and do it.

[weary ginkgo]

you don't really need to farm it with the changes

[stark jasper]

i wish they used the story chapter bosses but knowing that they got big gimiks would be painful, imagine having to do chapter 8 final boss, it would be loooong

[leaden sigil]

Almost all the suggestions here work. Please change this devs, and please change rapidly, before the wave of newbies start dropping en masse. This is a rare chance to expand playerbase - hopefully devs don't toss it.

[stark jasper]

honestly, they should just make a UNIQUE boss thats only for raids

[weary ginkgo]

but then you have to fight it multiple times

[stark jasper]

but thats really a lot to ask for now.

[weary ginkgo]

maybe with variations

[stark jasper]

yeah, it would be simply the Eyes but atleast its not... the eyes...

[weary ginkgo]

fair, but it need something different every stage like that

[delicate citrus]

I guess that's another thing that ruins the fun - like where is the hype in beating the boss that is exact same as in story and you can beat it whenever you want lol.

[leaden sigil]

There's still some hype at first, not like you replay often. But by the 10th time of the day, knowing you got another 3 digit number of runs left throughout the week... haha.

Ouch.

[stark jasper]

i will assume they are resource strained but even if they werent, my bare minimum for next event is just make it cumulative and limit the runs per day to 5 and not based on your roster.

[weary ginkgo]

for what i've seen, some of the special relics will be different, and at least the AstralReign rules can make it more varied

Like how they did in the old one, when they introduced some waky mixed realm relics, remixing a fight could be fun, but they really need to fix up the structure around them at least

[drowsy sky]

Another possible solution is completely abandoning the idea and create something new. Like from what light said, it seems he wants to create something new. But idk if that'll be better.
I think raid is salvageable.
Light:

I hope this will be the last time we use this type of event. In the future we'll need to invest more resources into creating different kinds of events.

[stark jasper]

i would like to see a LONG dungeon

like REALLY LONG

[weary ginkgo]

yeah, but what if they implement similar rules in that one too?

this suggestions can be used as a blueprint of other events

[stark jasper]

its only one per month but you got uncapped relic limit but you are forced to only one realm

[weary ginkgo]

or just a raid that is aquatically nice to use sometimes

[stark jasper]

yeah, a raid coming once in a while is cool it just suck that it has fomo tries, thats the only outragous thing for some, if the rewards from doing it were just whatever, no one was gonna care

[delicate citrus]

I know it might sound crazy, but imagine a rougelike mode lol. Like as you go through nodes you pick team out of random awakeners, then random cards that will be assigned to them, wheels too.

[drowsy sky]

That would require complete rework of some awaker kits.
There's exploration awakers which gets stronger with each battle.
By this point, each character already have basically 2 to 3 kits. Traphase / arc1 / arc2

[stark jasper]

yeah but they got limits no?

[weary ginkgo]

i mean, that is the future mode they want to make in the future anyway

[drowsy sky]

No?

[stark jasper]

oh so only wheels do? ok mb

i dont know every awakener kit, i assumed they got limits too

cause i really sometimes just wish the exploration was... longer

you do 3-4 battles, stage done.

kinda lame especially when you start mixing orisons and relics

imagine getting your entire deck full of orisons

[delicate citrus]

part of the fun in rougelikes is to make completely busted stuff. So awakeners that scale hard in a long dungeon is not automatically a bad thing. Plus it is just a matter of adding a cap to one number that normally does not have a cap, not that huge of a rework (compared to the periodic pvp tweaks for example)

[stark jasper]

since the game borrows heavily from slay the spire i think its very easy to make a LONG map, maybe have like 5 variations as a start but the battles and stuff you find will be random, that way they dont need to design many versions of stages.

But im getting offtopic, seeing not many are responding here about the event i think people just conlcuded that the event is bad and there is nothing more to say to dev team.

[drowsy sky]

Nothing wrong with a game mode where you get to be op but what worries me is game balancing where exploration awakers are far superior to all others

[stark jasper]

they can just add to rule sets and make it cap based around what the usual normal stages are x1.5

[weary ginkgo]

honestly giving a max upgrade but an easier time getting there could be nice, but touching a kit, if is not a direct buff, is normally a pain for gachas.
They could do it for only that mode, but that seems a bit unlikely

[stark jasper]

so if your character reaches max power after 10 kills

in normal

in this mode it will 15 and no more, that way they are still decent, but not giga scaling broken

[delicate citrus]

Most normal maps won't have 15 enemies anyway cause they are short lol, so making the cap universal won't really affect normal mode in this specific case

[stark jasper]

im suggesting that they do keep that niche of them being really good in long runs, but not overvalue every other character that doesnt have a scaling kit in the entire exploration. Im spitballing currently.

[drowsy sky]

The exploration awakers you need to keep in mind are daff, ryker, castor, pollux, clem

[stark jasper]

doesnt doresain also have exploration thing? or was that the wheel

nvm i saw it, its just corpses

[drowsy sky]

Just his wheel

[eternal aurora]

Something like PtN rogulike mode (forgot the name) could work really good in Morimens

[stark jasper]

whats uh... ptn

[eternal aurora]

Path to Nowhere

[stark jasper]

aah, i heard of it a while ago from psychie but i wasnt a tower defence guy so i didnt really check it out

really we can just make the very obvious comparison to czn (tho czn took from slay the spire so its about the same) a very long single run with checkpoints or leave and return later with no issue.

[eternal aurora]

Basically it's a rogulike mode in which you start on floor 0/hub where you choose the story you will play (each story is based on a different major character), and then you explore I think 8? floors (that is kinda similar to morimens floor design - enemies, encounters,shop and floor boss).
Each story have universal relics which are the same for all stories, and unique one's, same with encounters and shop relics.
After you complete the run you will get unique currency that you can use to upgrade the "talents tree" of the mode.
Big part for me was that we could make run more difficult by giving enemies different buffs& global debuffs for yourself, and also there were different achievements,and some of them are really grindy - so it adds up a lot of replayability.
As you see there's a lot of similarities between this mode and morimens mechanics, and I would love to someday get something similar, but I understand that creating something as big as this is very hard, and will just shut up for now cause this message is already far too big.

[leaden sigil]

Wao thread already off topic

[tough current]

Copy paste over from what I post in the fan discord hopefully the dev see a new player perspective:

As a newbie reading a reddit post about how generous this game is when I decided to give it a try this event has proven otherwise. As most people have said, this raid event is the worst one in all of the gacha i have play since it create insane FOMO for new players as there are so many units/copies they are advice to pull to get their team going ( not even considering the fact that the boss already dead even before I even decide to check it out).

Agree with most of what V said though as this should have been a whole sever thing and everyone should have gotten the rewards as it is an anniversary event that should try to encourage and get in more players (not scare them away). Give the whales/vet an animated profile border or something as a flex would have been great or some less silver and incentivize people to clear the raids I assume.

Since I also see a lot of vet players say this is the 3rd time dev has done this after feedbacks after feedbacks say how awful these raid events are. Please listen to your player feedbacks. One of the reason I still stay is because the community has been extremely nice and helpful, and Light message about seeing people complain give me some hope this can change for the better.

Yes, I understand a lot of people advice you do not need to FOMO in this game, and I can take my time. However, I have only played this game for about a week. I do not understand how generous it is beside this anniversary event and the only way for me to progress my account by clearing story faster is getting good units by pulling.

Sorry if this message is long. Just feel very frustrated with the raids as there are so many banner you get adviced to pull and my only way is to get currency is through story atm and dailies.

[weary ginkgo]

The feedbacks have been shared with Light

Raid Problems and Solutions (The feedbacks have been shared with Light )

[vocal prism]

I think they still don't understand how many ppl/tries r there and how fast bosses r gone 😅

If they insist on limits I'm not sure if even 100k+ would be good enough tbh but def shouldn't go bellow that that's for sure

Lit each second 1 boss dies