#Natures Tier List (Mathcord/Napcast)

1268 messages · Page 2 of 2 (latest)

half dune
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B+    Lax    Energy Recovery    Main Skill Chance    If not SKL
B+    Impish    Energy Recovery    Ingredient Finding    If not ING
B+    Adamant    Speed of Help    Ingredient Finding    If ING
B    Naive    EXP Gains    Main Skill Chance    If good skl and ING
B    NEUTRAL    X    X    
B    Lonely    Speed of Help    Energy Recovery    
B    Gentle    Main Skill Chance    Energy Recovery    If SKL or good Skill
B    Jolly    EXP Gains    Ingredient Finding    If good ing and SKL
B-    Hasty    EXP Gains    Energy Recovery    If not Energy Skill
B-    Modest    Ingredient Finding    Speed of Help    If ING
B-    Mild    Ingredient Finding    Energy Recovery    If ING
B-    Rash    Ingredient Finding    Main Skill Chance    If BER
B-    Careful    Main Skill Chance    Ingredient Finding    If BER
B-    Sassy    Main Skill Chance    EXP Gains    If bad skill xor not SKL
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C+    Jolly    EXP Gains    Ingredient Finding    If ING
C+    Calm    Main Skill Chance    Speed of Help    
C+    Quiet    Ingredient Finding    EXP Gains    If not ING
C    Lax    Energy Recovery    Main Skill Chance    If SKL
C    Impish    Energy Recovery    Ingredient Finding    If ING
C    Naive    EXP Gains    Main Skill Chance    If SKL
C-    Rash    Ingredient Finding    Main Skill Chance    If SKL
C-    Careful    Main Skill Chance    Ingredient Finding    If ING
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D+    Timid    EXP Gains    Speed of Help    
D+    Mild    Ingredient Finding    Energy Recovery    If not ING
D+    Modest    Ingredient Finding    Speed of Help    If not ING
D+    Relaxed    Energy Recovery    EXP Gains    
D    Bold    Energy Recovery    Speed of Help    
D    Gentle    Main Skill Chance    Energy Recovery    If bad ability and not SKL
D    Sassy    Main Skill Chance    EXP Gains    If bad skill and not SKL
cerulean ivy
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Sagssy

half dune
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there was some filter word

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preventing me from posing

cerulean ivy
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Did you figure out what it was lol

half dune
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no

cerulean ivy
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dsassym

willow salmon
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Hmm importing to excel or sheets is not the kindest even with the special paste. still better than retyping it all out I guess

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thanks

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(for explanation: if you use delimiter of space then "speed of help" becomes 3 columns. No other delimiters really work to do anything as far as automatically splitting columns)

cerulean ivy
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Well it's such a good bonus that maybe it's worth 3 columns 🤔

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hmm?

willow salmon
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not if its -speed of help though JirachiRage

cerulean ivy
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negative 3 columns

coarse mango
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Im trying figure out what the word being blocked was as well

halcyon dagger
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sassy

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no it's not ... sry for the ping

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I should have tried before

half dune
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@west spruce made the following tier list.

image-23.png
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Discuss

west spruce
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I updated it but I dont have access to that computer for like a week

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Sadly

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But this is close

half dune
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Holy fuck dude Hasty 0.5?

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You're tripping

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XP up is only barely useful and Energy Down is crippling

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You bringing down Impish and Careful tells me you have no idea what you're doing

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You based this entirely off vibes without an ounce of actual knowledge of how the previous list was done

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Or how the natures actually work

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You aren't even in the Mathcord bruv

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Please tell me, in mathematical and precise terms, why you evaluated the Berry natures in this way
@west spruce

west spruce
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Ok guess my list isnt that useful, thanks

halcyon dagger
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at least we can discuss it and make changes

half dune
lucid hound
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So you pinged Mods to replace a community resource based off "vibes"?

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Damn too fast

west spruce
half dune
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Beat ya to it Tiff

west spruce
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But you can put it back up and I apologize

halcyon dagger
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Math 1 - 0 Tiffaa

west spruce
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Are you seriously gonna tell me quiet is the best nature for a skill mon though?

lucid hound
half dune
half dune
west spruce
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But how are they more useful than the other skill chance up

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You've done the math on this so I want to know why

half dune
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Because lots of skill mons have shit skills

cerulean ivy
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Who cares about those mons

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You're not using them anyway

half dune
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Plenty of people

west spruce
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Ok now you're adding subjectivity into this

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So I stand by my point

half dune
west spruce
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Since now you're cherry picking

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But whatever

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Put the old list back up, sorry for pinging the mods

cerulean ivy
half dune
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No it very much isnt

west spruce
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I'll join the mathcord discord and learn more

half dune
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Skill Mons are notable in that they don't have an ing or berry lean

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So things that benefit any of the above are valuable

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At worst I could say Sassy could get a bump

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But the other two in A is very reasonable

cerulean ivy
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I need to see the list again

west spruce
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I dont understand how careful is lower than quiet

lucid hound
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Here is my espeon (bashful)
Not gonna invest more in it, but it's pretty darn useful seeing how often it gives str to my Snorlax, it's like a 4th meal per day

Screenshot_2023-09-04-17-56-18-801_jp.pokemon.pokemonsleep.jpg
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So yh, i find it very useful @cerulean ivy

half dune
west spruce
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How is ing up exp down better than msc up ing down

half dune
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Because ingredients are massively more powerful than berries

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So ing up is just a generally good thing on mons that aren't like, Berry Finder or Berry Spec

cerulean ivy
west spruce
cerulean ivy
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So how about that list

half dune
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This isn't to say there isn't contention in the list

lucid hound
half dune
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But your list doesn't magically solve the issue

half dune
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Espeon has a good skill

cerulean ivy
lucid hound
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Oh ok i understood every skill mon, mybad

half dune
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A better example would be Umbreon

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A very powerful mon for Snowcloak

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But its ability is shite

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It's very powerful because it's basically the only Milk mon with favored berries, and the only other one is Glaceon who sucks much harder

cerulean ivy
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That's kinda what I refer to when I say skill mons with bad skills yes
You're specifically not using it for its skill so the skill nature list doesn't apply
You don't want +main skill at all

half dune
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No the list does apply

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You just have to use more than two brain cells

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To interpret the context of the list

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For example, Ingredient mons with Berry Finder S will also upset the list a tad

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You have to interpret meaningfully and come to your own conclusions

cerulean ivy
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The context of what you're using it for is the more important thing
You're using that berry finder Umbreon for a reason
And that reason has jack to do with the skill mon tier list
It's a berry mon in all but name

half dune
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I dont have berry finder on umbreon

cerulean ivy
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Skill issue

half dune
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I'm using a straight Umbreon for its ingredients

half dune
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Berry Finder S is a waste on Umbreon

west spruce
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Is it because it doesnt collect as fast as jolteon?

cerulean ivy
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Why Jolteon

west spruce
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Even on snowdrop?

west spruce
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Frequency

cerulean ivy
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So Berry Finding Jolteon is better than say, Berry Finding Raichu?

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Because of the skill?

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Also I guess I don't have a handle on math shit in this game either but Umbreon is really good on Snowdrop just for ingredients?
Blastoise wouldn't be better?

halcyon dagger
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I understand the ING up benefits for ingredients or skill Mons but why is it also good for berry Mons ? or I misunderstood

cerulean ivy
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I think you misunderstood?

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I'm pretty sure none of these tier lists like +ing on a berry mon

halcyon dagger
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ok nice then, also about mainskill self energy Mons, is energy down a good nature ?
cause I'm using doduo and if I collect berries in the morning and it activates his skill when he's at 100... I just lose the energy
so I need to wait for him to collect and bring down the energy then collect

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but with energy down I could collect every morning without worrying, bad part is if the skill doesn't activate

cerulean ivy
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Well it goes over 100

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But you lose the energy if you close the game apparently

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Saw someone talking about that
Like if you leave the game open you don't lose the energy

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Sounds like a silly bug, like it's obviously intended to go over 100

half dune
half dune
cerulean ivy
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My bad

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Good to know

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Really should go over 100 though 😒

half dune
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Why

cerulean ivy
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Because it's cool

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No other reason

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Would be a neat bonus for the energy charge skills

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Plus like the guy said, there's a decent chance that you're activating it right after you wake up and are at 100 anyway

half dune
pseudo wasp
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If you stay in the Poké Box it does not reset back to 100. I have been abusing this with my Altaria.

half dune
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What?

halcyon dagger
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Yeah i've seen that, it goes down by one if you stay on it instead of resetting but it could be only a visual bug cause when I deco/reco it was at 99

pseudo wasp
# half dune What?

I stay in the Pokebox for about 3 1/2 hours because my Altaria gives itself 21 energy. If I go back to Snorlax, it resets to 100%. If you don’t, it counts down regularly.

On some days, my Altaria goes to bed with 80% energy. 😅

half dune
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Uh that doesn't sound right

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I'd suggest you film it

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Would be a good bug report at least

pseudo wasp
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This was very likely already reported. It was discussed already 2-3 weeks ago.

compact abyss
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At least now we know the bug of it resetting to 100% is gonna be fixed next patch

half dune
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It'll stop showing as above 100%

compact abyss
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Oh the translated notes made it sound like the resetting to 100% was the bug.

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Guess we just wait until 1.0.7 then lol

heady gulch
# half dune Uh that doesn't sound right

Yeah it definitely works like dktrue said. I’ve used this on many mons with energy skill so it’s definitely not just a visual bug as it will hold the extra energy as long as you don’t leave the page

half dune
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That's hysterical and broken

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it doesn't jut down after?

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ie: 110 -> 100 doesn't jut down to 90 after?

hearty slate
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I like this mathcord tier list. It conflicts with the infographic pinned tho. Can someone have that one removed? It literally says Adamant is bad on SKL mons which makes no sense…

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This is such a pretty guide but I don’t think it’s right… and it’s pinned

safe hawk
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The Swag tips video is better than the graphic it's based on since it helps you learn for yourself how to judge them

compact abyss
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It would be cool if we could get the video linked with the picture

safe hawk
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RyanSwag is in the server too I think

cerulean ivy
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Wait so they just fixed the energy above 100 thing right after we talked about it lmao

heady gulch
heady gulch
pseudo wasp
half dune
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But we'll see

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Actually I just reread it

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It is an accurate translation

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So it's different than their previous note?

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1.0.7 is interesting

cerulean ivy
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Did 1.0.7 already happen? Haven’t opened the game in a little bit

pseudo wasp
cerulean ivy
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Well, apparently

pseudo wasp
cerulean ivy
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So you’ve just been chilling in the status screen for hours to use that extra energy or something?

pseudo wasp
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High quality gameplay footage 😂

IMG_9834.png
cerulean ivy
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Damn Altaria sure is slow

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Well at least the update should help you maintain your sanity
I imagine doing that is annoying

pseudo wasp
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Not fast, but the berries are worth more and this one has berry finding at 10 and ING down (giving me more berries)

cerulean ivy
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And it’ll be a nice bonus for energy charge mons like I said before

cerulean ivy
pseudo wasp
halcyon dagger
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Sleep XP Report :

05/09 : 1st sleep with 43 score boosted with 4 sleep XP -> 43 x 1.56 = 67xp
Pichu (down) : 234 -> 180 = 54 so -13/67 = -19,4%
Doduo (neutral) : 457 -> 390 = 67
Bayleaf (up) : 260 -> 181 = 79 so +12/67 = +17,9%

05/09 2nd sleep with 57 score x1.56 = 89 XP

Pichu (down) : 180 -> 108 = 72 so 17/89 = -19,1%
Doduo (neutral) : 390 -> 301 = 89
Bayleaf (up) : 181 -> 76 = 105 so 16/89 = +18%

06/09 sleep : 45x1.42-> 64xp
Doduo : 223 - 159= 64
Bayleaf : 481 - 406 = 75 so +17,2%

halcyon dagger
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nature down with 1 sleep XP bonus = 114xp -> -19% = 93xp so almost equal to neutral 100xp state

fervent robin
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Why are -exp natures valued so high?

west spruce
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they don't affect a pokemon's immediate performance

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personally, i think they're overvalued because you'll be spending more time at lower levels which can be a pain to raise, but usually they are still safe bets.

cerulean ivy
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-exp is my favorite downside in general

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It's not a "good" thing but if you're getting a boost to something you want then -exp is usually the optimal downside for me

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Besides the obvious -ing on berries

west spruce
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i prefer -ing for berries (adamant, lesser extent jolly) and -skill (rash, lesser extent naughty) for ings

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but i'm not gonna complain if i get brave or quiet

half dune
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If you're smart, only like 20% of your levelling for good mons comes from sleeps

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So losing 18% of that 20% means you'll only be like 3.5% behind the curve

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Which is a fraction of a level

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Until super late

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Where it will amount to 2 levels

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Even if 100% of your EXP was sleep EXP and reduced by EXP down

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A mon with +EXP that just reached Level 50, versus a mon with -EXP with the exact same levelling time

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would be Level 40

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Which is assuming 100% of your levelling somes from sleep, which it isn't

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And that you started at Level 1, which you didn't

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And you're comparing the plus nature to the minus nature as a maximal comparison

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Neutral to -EXP is 50 to late 44

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+EXP to Neutral is mid 45

cerulean ivy
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And that candy update almost certainly just isn't coming at this point

pliant surge
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Wait is that not a controversial opinion anymore lol

fading basin
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Would be nice if they actually announced that, if so

hard coral
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Welp the candy change is coming, would be good to know once it goes live just how bad -xp is hit

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Still the best long term nature but could be very poor short term

west spruce
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very, very glad i spent my gastly candy yesterday

fringe crescent
west spruce
fringe crescent
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In what way

late grotto
west spruce
fringe crescent
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Huh..

west spruce
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+/- 18%

fringe crescent
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That kinda sucks I think

west spruce
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It does

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Some people will say in the long haul it wont matter

fringe crescent
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Should I just spend my candies rn while I have ‘‘em lol

late grotto
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If you plan to continue using the pokemon sure

fringe crescent
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I might just put half in my raichu and half into butterfree

west spruce
fringe crescent
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I put them all on my butter since he has exp down

nova warren
half dune
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This was before the energy changes

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+energy on a 100 night sleep was a waste

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Also because we didn't actually know what energy did

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So we need to update some of these

nova warren
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Got it thanks

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Any estimate on when a new one will come out?

cerulean ivy
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Well +energy on a 100 sleep is still a waste, no?

west spruce
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Yes, but +energy is also affected by e4e

fading basin
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Also charge energy, cheer, the new 5% energy credit that box Pokemon are going to start getting when you sleep, and likely whatever the new bonus team energy from meals ends up being as well

half dune
rugged dagger
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What is the overall % increase to berry finding alone by adamant nature? How does it compare to bfs (neutral nature) for berry finding alone?

west spruce
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+10% help speed -20% ingredient finding so 1.32x is my guess

scarlet belfry
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wait base ingredient finding rate is 20% right? so -20% on that means 16% ingredient finds, meaning 84% berry finds? so the -ing is probs not gonna be that significant right

west spruce
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20% is 20%

tender nest
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Also -ing is less ingredients which tbh are almost as much as 3 berries anyways

echo parrot
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Is adamant still good for skill mons? I don't know if there was any changes affecting this one

cerulean ivy
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I'd call Adamant fine for skill mons but not all that great

half dune
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Skill mons with good skills love Skill+ natures

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But help up is still pretty solid

echo parrot
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It's a slowpoke, I don't think the skill is that good anyway. But I'm not sure if it's worth investing or waiting for a better one

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I'm trying to make a full water/fairy/flying team for cyan beach

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I'll probably wait. ING- will kinda of ruin the best that it has to over which is tail. It's only at LVL 60 but still

rotund furnace
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there are a lot of better options

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Feraligatr, Blastoise, Vaporeon, Clefable, Sylveon, Wigglytuff are all high tier for Cyan Beach

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Dodrio is also good filler if you're missing Berry support

echo parrot
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yeah just started investing in an eevee that I had to turn it into a sylveon

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it'll just be hard to get the sleep time with it as it's usually not on my team and I need to sleep with the ones that are so they recover energy

rotund furnace
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Pokémon get 5% energy back if left in the box

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it takes a long time to restore from 0, but it can be done

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also you still get drops at 0 energy, just less

echo parrot
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yeah I'll probably start switching to eevee to sleep and then using whatever is the 5th higher RP with full energy

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on the next morning I mean

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actually now that I think about it my marowak could probably afford not sleeping, he keeps recovering his own energy with the skill

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the other 4 on my team have 9% energy and he still has 58

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The reduction in the Pokemon Berry/ing collection is only when they hit 0% or it gradually reduces from 100 until 0?

rotund furnace
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the formula isn't well known yet

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but approximately the curve goes from 250% the speed (at 100% energy) to 100% the speed (at 0% energy)

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Eevee isn't a bad mon btw

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obviously it's not great but it has decent frequency for an unevolved

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it's only marginally slower than things like Ditto