#Old School Tourney wishlist

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

little ginkgo
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For discussion of "old school" tourneys - whatever that means. For now, 1v1 only.

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You can use this thread to suggest spell tags to create your "ban lists"

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There is no "rollback," so don't ask.

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I will assume the first tag you want is "rhoshambo" so that we can exclude all the 5th age magic wheel cards

modest prism
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in terms of cards, the problems in late 2020 were 90 efreets [fire's is gone but the others should go too for this] and icebird being the only hit and blade outside of storm beetle

I'll work on compiling a list of old TC from back then that were rightfully banned, it won't be too extensive but obv juju and insane bolt that typa deal are on it

rose depot
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Would an “any card goes” be a applicable pvp tournament mode? Like you’d be able to use any and all cards that are usually pvp banned - I’m not sure if that counts as a rollback; apologies if it does

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But I kinda liked the chaos of old school tournaments

scarlet briar
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I just would like Feint back for a little spice and chaos.

nocturne rune
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mantle 55% too then 😉

inland scroll
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60% mantle

nocturne rune
inland scroll
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I would like a tournament thats Path A only and a different one thats Path B only and for the Path B only tournament spells with only 1 path are banned

little ginkgo
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If the supposedly massive "old school" community would like to see old school tourneys, y'all better start getting on the same page and tell me what you want.

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one format - not dozens, not even 2

little ginkgo
modest prism
nocturne rune
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yep mantle mantle wild bolt wild bolt rasulka

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and want old insane bolt

inland scroll
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I don't think they'll be able to bring back the old spells sadly but if they can thats cool

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with the tcs maybe

worthy marsh
rose depot
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so yea for my idea it would just be the cards we have accessible to us now that are pvp banned, be allowed in its own tournament mode

little ginkgo
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i can't wait for people to tell us the old school tourneys are unbalanced now because the old unbalanced versions of spells no longer exist

rose depot
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yeahhhh im sure someone will always be unhappy

little ginkgo
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"Yeah, but it was balanced because ***everything ***was unbalanced!"

robust nacelle
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no stat caps & all spells allowed

little ginkgo
little ginkgo
worthy marsh
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For now I'm hearing the baseline of this tourney format is allowing all spells that have been pvp banned

nocturne rune
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yup mainly mantles

little ginkgo
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Maybe start a list and pin it to the top.

  1. No 5th Age spells
  2. Allow PvP banned spells
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Should we categorize spells by "Age" literally - meaning the creation/release date?

worthy marsh
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Would that info even be helpful to players? Any new players wouldn't know when a spell was introduced

little ginkgo
pastel plover
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Also please add an “Item Card” tag

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Would eliminate vengeful seraph, 90 efreet from the pet and amulet forms, etc. @little ginkgo

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Assuming gear, pets, maycasts, and PvP age might already be given tags or “toggleables”, item cards are a must

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Also holy crap I am heavily against adding a toggle for no stat caps or disabling level restrictions for cards lol

little ginkgo
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not sure you're going to get what you want, James. Seems the majority of "old school" folks crave the imbalance

pastel plover
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Sure maybe in the devs eyes but many are looking for a silver lining. Not necessarily chaos incarnate but more of something that mixes the good decisions the devs have made with old stuff that should have never been changed

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Ex: card level restrictions are good, a 30 balance shouldn’t be able to pop. Also stat caps are also solid. Can’t speak for max, it will always be crazy and problematic

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No matter the format or formula really

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But banned spells should come back, while still being able to be restricted by level

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No reason why a life should farm beastmoon for a trained spell or for base luminous to be banned. These are mind boggling changes that shouldn’t be in rn

worthy marsh
pastel plover
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Thanks for the info. But goodness haha

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Ik you guys aren’t miracle workers and I definitely dont wanna come off as asking for the world (especially now knowing not all cards are level restricted, among other things I might find out..) but eventually “unbalanced chaos” is going to become unfun when the dopamine runs out. If we can have chaos toggles and have toggles that are actually more appealing to repeat (or create metas from), that would be Beyond incredible.

little ginkgo
inland scroll
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chaos is fun sometimes

modest prism
rose depot
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Mmmm I want the chaos

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James can have classic tournament mode if he doesn’t want item cards lol

hollow olive
# little ginkgo It would certainly be useful for player created tourneys.

Would it be possible for "world access" instead of release date? So for example banning all cards past avalon even if they were released afterwards? I know it would require a ton more dev time to add in, but having this as an option + an option to enable all cards or advanced combat enabled cards could make for some interesting and fun old school pvp formats

little ginkgo
hollow olive
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your absolutely correct, but You came up with the idea of going by release date which might include/exclude lore spells and limit the ability to add in new spells at lower levels

pastel plover
# rose depot James can have classic tournament mode if he doesn’t want item cards lol

These are toggles, not entire modes. Although they could create a tournament called classic but it wouldn’t include no item cards.

I want a toggle for player-made tournaments where you can turn off item cards. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to enter into tournaments where this is turned on. It’s a simple “catch all” that eliminates a lot of crucially unbalanced things. Things that will keep players out of a lot of tours and that’s NOT what you want in wiz where pvp is dwindling by a thread regardless of what the data says. You can argue that tc like icebird and the zillas aren’t itemcards so it’s still “chaos” for some schools, but we have enchants back so just send the epic’d thunder snake for 2k if ur playing max or whatever. “No item cards” is a must for stability while literally 3 entire leagues wait for pins which might be trash due to lower level value.

little ginkgo
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You'll get an "official" classic tourney before you get custom tourneys, so it's imperative we have a solid consensus.

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eh, or we could just wait. that might be better in the long run.

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things like this make it very hard for me to take you seriously, James - "where pvp is dwindling by a thread regardless of what the data says"

pastel plover
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PvP is being held together by content creators. People will log on only to snipe or to benefit off of the influx of players or players who flee if they don’t get the streamer.

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This shouldn’t really be up for debate. Purposely high barrier to entry (even if I understand why), 3 leagues are running at quarter capacity which might not even be fixed by pins if the devs are planning to factor in lower values for lower levels. This isn’t about trolling.. pvp is the least played activity for very clear reasons.

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——-
Seeing how it’s being alluded to that there might not be time to dedicate to launching official tours AND player made tours, I would agree with the sentiment that everything should just be halted and released as 1 update. Having a “classic” tournament, even if official, is not that compelling in comparison. Having to wait and schedule PvP that seems more fun than the alternative which is PvP with no pins or forced to play max? I’m not even being disgruntled here, that’s just No thanks. Not speaking for everyone obviously, but I’ve had this specific convo with several folks already. Mixed and negative feedback

little ginkgo
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you're telling me that you're impervious to facts and that is not a good foundation to start a conversation

pastel plover
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You can color me doubtfully surprised if the data somehow shows an upward trend in player versus player activity in wizard 101 in 2024.

little ginkgo
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I didn't say that, James.

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You're guided by feelings, not data, and you're asserting that the devs are also guided by feelings, and lying about the data.

pastel plover
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I don’t know if I’d agree with that last part.. sure I said I would doubt the data if that was said but I don’t know about calling the devs liars.. I’ll agree with being emotionally reactive. It’s hard not to lol.

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I’ll try and stick to the topic at hand instead of letting feelings bleed into it. Regardless tho I’d like for everything to hit test realm at once

keen heath
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No stat caps

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Bring back preenchants, let us make tc to put in side deck

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Fire beetle tc should stay banned

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If we are still keeping certain things banned

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Threefold fever should be banned, because without roshambo it is impossible to counter also it came about in “5th age” with roshambo. Hit and heals should be banned too (besides power link) since they came about in 5th age and make infections very hard to actually use effectively. ( hit and heals make it hard to punish healing)

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Since we don’t have all day to defeat juju spammers if this is a tourney, I’d make juju do 1000 damage to self always no matter damage, health, resist to prevent spamming and prevent it from being useless like it was when it was nerfed in pvp for a while

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Also categorizing spells by pvp age would be very fun. A 1st age,2nd age tourney option would be fun to only use spells that were around back then.

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Again if it’s either ban nothing, (we deal with fire beetle, hit and heals and juju) or this tourney mode gets plagued by a bunch of spell bans like normal pvp I’d prefer just to deal with fire beetle, but and heals and juju 😂

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Ngl it would be nice if we reverted the enchants on drains to only add 50% value like they originally were designed as because that was to keep drains in check since you also basically got a heal enchant. It was smart by the devs to originally design drains and enchants like that.

keen heath
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Keep pet maycast talents at the rate how they are lol

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Ppl didn’t like that rng even in old school pvp

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Ban dark surge (ig that is a 5th age card anyways)

keen heath
robust nacelle
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why out of all things are you worried about fire beetle lol

pastel plover
little ginkgo
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Fred's entry to the channel illustrates why it's impossible to describe "old school" - we had a half dozen people here to start asking for the wild west anything goes approach, James has his banlist, Fred continues to look weird with his own banlist... Like I said, this is going to be GREAT. What a glorious disaster.

nocturne rune
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🫣

inland scroll
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I think the easiest old school would be the classic 1v1 tournaments. But limit it to spells that were there only when dragonspyre came out.

keen heath
pastel plover
# little ginkgo Fred's entry to the channel illustrates why it's impossible to describe "old sch...

I think I need to be ultra uber clear about what I was asking for.

For Player Created Tournaments I would like for there to be a toggle for No Itemcards

Not necessarily an official tournament where this is enabled.

All in all, I would rather play in a tournament where chaos reins with everything unbanned than play the potential mess that ranked will turn into if pins aren’t handled correctly. But this whole Friday night thing.. even if it’s Friday Saturday Sunday or whatever. Gonna just opt to say “I don’t like this” and leave it at that. Was really hoping for player made tournaments so that we could “practice” official tournament settings and do it whenever we wanted. But , “bandwidth”, and I understand that.

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So literally if we as a playerbase cannot agree on something in terms of an Official Classic Tournament and NOT a toggle for Player Made Tournaments, then yes please opt just to make it a Mad Max setting where everything goes. Free the chaos.

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@little ginkgo

little ginkgo
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Player created tournaments will simply take more time. Official Tournaments will be out sooner, so I thought players might appreciate a chance to try some version of the mode. I stand corrected.

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And simply releasing a clearly broken tourney format - one that all evidence indicates will not have wide appeal - will create all kinds of subjective takes (myself included) as to the appeal of old school. I feel like the format deserves a fair shake.

pastel plover
keen heath
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Im in support of it being released with no rules then, just no roshambo / gambit / roshambo spellement cards.

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We don’t need a ban list besides roshambo stuff

keen heath
inland scroll
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The old tournament modes were fun other than the ones that buffed specific schools

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making tournaments based on what rank you are in pvp is boring and exactly what i didn't want to deal with for tournaments

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I don't pvp cause i hate how it feels since late age 4 onwards

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but i'm really good at it.

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So me having no rank fighting a lot of low ranks that struggle in pvp wont be a fair match

hollow olive
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didn't they say there would be 3 tiers... one that rank is tied into for those who want a challenging matches and guaranteed challenging matches, an open tournament for everyone, and a beginner tier?

inland scroll
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high rank tier low rank tier and no rank tier

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thats boring game modes

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thats not the tournaments people wanted back

robust nacelle
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yeah quick match, turn based and non turn based (and maybe even classic) should be the options

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school perks are kinda pointless imo

inland scroll
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I dislike school perks its fun sometimes to have all storms or all fires or something but its not practical

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quick match is why people did tournaments lets not lie to ourselves

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big funny number go brrrr

nocturne rune
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yea fun

worthy marsh
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To clarify, Player Tournaments would come later, that's when players customize the ruleset by individual toggles. Official Tournaments will run a few using Rank tiers as mentioned on stream. We are ALSO looking at running an Official Tournament using an "Old School style" ruleset--that is what this thread is for, to decide what that "Old School style" ruleset looks like.

nocturne rune
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ic

inland scroll
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Ty Calamity!

hollow olive
inland scroll
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Ok what about Ancient school style Pre Celestia

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thats what i want

hollow olive
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Arc style tournaments

inland scroll
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I would love that but that would be subjective if we called it arc style

hollow olive
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so before crit, before shads, before rhoshambo?

inland scroll
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the amount of people that claim stone colossus has always been there since its a level 42 spell drives me wild
wait till people find out that the first final world was mooshu for wizard101 Live realm

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I'm pretty sure Marleybone was the final world in beta ( don't quote me I barely played beta )

hollow olive
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yea, stone collosus wasn't there for years. its pretty obvious when its a copied animation of another schools spell

worthy marsh
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Arc style would be very similar to the existing leagues, as arc mechanics corresponds to level corresponds to league

little ginkgo
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@rose owl

keen heath
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Unban all cards that were banned for 5th age, except roshambo stuff. No stat cap, allow preenchants to work again is my list for old school tourneys

pastel plover
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I think the one absolutely non-negotiable thing IF you guys are actually gonna pull the trigger on an official “old school” tournament is the reintroduction of “first and second” instead of keeping turn based.

I get unleashing the chaos but i don’t know of anyone who is seriously wanting back first and second. And I really hope the devs aren’t thinking that most are in agreeance that first and second is a part of the “unbalanced chaos” that players want back.

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I think most people wouldn’t take people who actually want that back, seriously

modest prism
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agreed fully, first and second in hindsight was the most unbalanced thing to ever hit the game

little ginkgo
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it was the best

pastel plover
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I’d entertain the sarcasm, or maybe you’re quoting a very particular timelessly disgruntled YouTuber that we all know of, but with the disappointment of player-made tours not making it in this time around and the seriousness of first and second being trash, I’m not in the mood lol..

modest prism
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winning from second was quite the dopamine hit but it never happened often enough to justify first and second being in the game

pastel plover
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Correct.

hollow olive
modest prism
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oh yea fasho

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especially when they could dispel me and drain my pips

robust nacelle
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maybe both options existing could work? i agree that turn based is fairer but the prediction aspect of first and second is unique and can be fun

keen heath
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Everyone agreed turn based was a good change. Best PvP change tbh. Non turn based wouldn’t work anyways because spells have been changed. Modern Mana burn would be awful in non turnbased

pastel plover
rose owl
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The thing I like best about whatever we can do with old school rules is not having to field endless complaints about ban this/ban that, maycasts are broken, the stats are unbalanced, PvE stacking is busted, etc!

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Several in this chat were guilty of campaigning for various spell bans

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And believe me, I can understand the appeal of the wild West style

modest prism
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nice opinion. unfortunately, ban mantles

nocturne rune
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nuh uh

stuck linden
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Old school pvp. Mooshu era. No pets. Commander gear. Rank 6 spells are max.

scarlet basin
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old gear like deulists and commander come back and are purchaseable if you were commander in any past season

keen heath
knotty topaz
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Pre-enchants would probably be a separate tech thing

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That's not something that can just be enabled in the tournament because they can't be created in the first place for spellemental spells

keen heath
# knotty topaz That's not something that can just be enabled in the tournament because they can...

It seems like it could be an easy fix for tech (not that I know) but all spells in wiz history were able to be made into preenchants until spellement spells were put into the game. Only spells with spellemented options can’t be. I know ratbeard didn’t like preenchants when spellements were first added to the game (1 and 2 pip spells) so I wonder if he did this on purpose to phase out preenchants. Now that preenchants are out of their main pvp anyways I don’t see why they can’t be brought back. Even the pve crowd misses them. Seems like a simple fix but I don’t know anything about their tech

little ginkgo
inland scroll
frail sparrow
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Someone created another thread for the tourney and its rewards system

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I put in a few ideas and some thoughts so lmk what you guys think

scarlet basin
frail sparrow
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my stuff is towards the top o the thread @scarlet basin