#Azoth crafting/refining

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

graceful silo
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There are several issues with how crafting and refining azoth works right now. The main problem is the fact that you get a random type of azoth when refining it, so you're often wasting resources on something you don't even need. The only way to craft specific types of azoth is by "failing" the refinement, which is not only pure RNG again, but also means you lost a bunch of azoth for no reason. Another issue is that for some reason, extraxting school azoth requires 3 times the amount of harmonic azoth compared to elemental and spiritual which is just unbalanced because that means you'll have a lot of elemental/spiritual azoth left over and you can't use it for anything if you have already filled the things you want to unlock in the guild with those. Plus, the chances of getting each type don't seem to be equal because elemental is the most common, spritual also pretty common and harmonic the least common (at least based on my experience). The only way to circumvent that is if you have the harmonic azoth recipe, but again getting it is essentially just gambling. It should be 1 of each type instead.

Since we're already paying a lot of azoth for the crafter upgrades, this should simply unlock the recipes for each type right away. The first upgrade would give you the elemental/spiritual/harmonic ones and the second upgrade the school azoth ones.

quick rampart
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no

west ravine
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the thought process behind it was probably : "lets just make them suffer since they always beg for stuff to do." the mighty RNGesus

torn seal
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The nature of guild content is end-game “hardcore” & collaborative (there’s no way you’re unlocking that house solo; you need a coordinated group of at least 16 who are farming consistently OR significant resources to trade for the azoth).

There’s a relatively small group of wizards in the spiral who’ve successfully launched a guild and unlocked the house to even the most basic level.

There’s an even significantly smaller group that’s launched a guild and unlocked a house to the degree that you can access the resources it provides.

If you’re launching a guild you’re competing against other guild leaders to attract players (a resource).

Your competition is arguably the most well equipped/experienced/engaged player base in the Spiral.

The barrier to enter that field is steeply high. If you’re not ready for the painful grind to get there I’d recommend you join an established guild. If you’re wanting to compete at that level get ready to up your playtime.

graceful silo
torn seal
forest orbit
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The real problem is the school recipes, and those are needed not just for opening guild stuff but also for crafting housing. I think the drop rate on those recipes needs to be increased significantly.

torn seal
forest orbit
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Yes, that as well: less azoth to open things, make the recipes easier to get, relax unnecessary micromanaging rules on what level you need to be to start a guild and how many players you need for it.

torn seal
forest orbit
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But I stand by my point about the school azoth recipes. I collected quite a bit of azoth in the early days and I got 4 school recipes on one wiz and 1 school recipe on another wiz. The only players I know who have all the school recipes were being fed tons of azoth from other players. It shouldn't require the support of the entire guild for an interested and motivated player to get all these recipes.

torn seal
forest orbit
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The people I know popped crafting elixirs.

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Even though my guilds are fully opened now, I still want those recipes for ease of crafting.

torn seal
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On board with ya there 💯

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Maybe just make the purchasable?

forest orbit
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I'm just asking for the drop rate of the school recipes to be reasonable. When a few months of azoth farming netted me 0 more school recipes, I put that on the back burner as something I might get before I die.

graceful silo
# forest orbit I agree with your fundamental point, but just want to say that getting the basic...

the elemental and spiritual recipes are basically meaningless if you don't have the harmonic one which can actually take a while if you're unlucky

in the meantime all the elemental and spiritual azoth is useless if you can't donate them anywhere because at some point you'll just be missing the school azoth

i just see no reason why it needs to be so convoluted and why we can't just get the recipes by upgrading the crafter

forest orbit
# torn seal Yeah and I’m not sure we should lower the entry barrier. Idk if I it’s healthy t...

You have the wrong mindset. Players who would join a 12 person casual guild are NOT the one that hardcore raiding guilds are seeking to recruit. Jack is wanting to increase participation in guilds by more casual players who either feel guilds are too much commitment for them, or aren't considered desirable recruits by such guilds. Some of those guilds might want only to open up the houses to have fun decorating but the azoth requirement if you only can obtain random school azoths is far higher.

torn seal
# forest orbit You have the wrong mindset. Players who would join a 12 person casual guild are...

I don’t think I have the wrong mindset. I disagree with you.

Hardcore raiding groups are not the only guilds who are recruiting and have the resources to unlock the guild house. There are plenty of casual guilds that would love some decorators.

I just don’t like the idea of guilds devolving into a “joint housing” system. If that’s what we want move it to adventure parties and let adventure parties have joint houses to decorate…

But I’d like for guilds to keep their clout.

forest orbit
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You may not like it but this is part of KI's design. Decor was meant to be a significant guild activity, by KI design. That's why KI gave us 3 different houses to decorate, the ability to jointly decorate, and now the museum activity specifically for decorators.

If making it easier to form guilds creates more "competition" for the raiding guilds (and I've already explained why I think that effect would be minimal), what of it? Players should be free to form and join guilds that most appeal to them. They shouldn't be forced by lack of options into a raiding guild because that guild needs them.

tender apex
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Lightening up on the azoth reqs and having better crafting rng hurts nobody and would benefit many, I don't see the issue w this suggestion

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There are many reasons to want to create a guild and if people just wanna have a casual guild to do activities and decorating w their friends, it shouldn't be such a grind

torn seal
# forest orbit You may not like it but this is part of KI's design. Decor was meant to be a si...

I do like decorating; in fact I LOVE it, and yes I agree 100% that it's an awesome guild function.

There are plenty of casual guilds that would love some decorators, and are plenty casual and fun

This is a discussion about what the entry cost should be. I feel like it should be high. If we're going to bring "KI Design" into this, then evidently some don't like it, but the grind is meant to be a significant guild activity by design. You want to raid...grind. You want to decorate a castle w/ your friends...grind.

If players want a less grindy option for decorating I'm proposing a different system; not one that pulls the grind out of guilds.

torn seal
# tender apex There are many reasons to want to create a guild and if people just wanna have a...

And yes I agree there are things we could do to lessen the grind, but to what extent? Shouldn't it be an awesome accomplishment to unlock the guild manor? Less so for the guild conservatory, and guild hall. I think the current system kind of accounts for that. I certianly don't think we should give the guild manor away for a 15 runs of something.

Maybe a better solution is lowering the cap on the guild hall? Or just giving it for freE?

forest orbit
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I've seen people post please to KI like, I just want to make a guild for my extended family but we can't meet the requirements. How does it hurt you to let them have their fun in this game?

tender apex
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i certainly don't think unlocking things should be free but it does cost a lot of azoth to get things unlocked

torn seal
# forest orbit I've seen people post please to KI like, I just want to make a guild for my exte...

It just feels like a little slap in the face. My guild worked so hard to unlock and decorate all the houses. There's a lot of effort there. It was fun and we're proud of it. Just giving that away now for reduced cost feels like it deminishes our awards.

It's kind of like if wiz just gave away all the rare housing items in the shop. If you can buy the selena gomez statue in the housing shop why did i even bother with it in the 2000s?

forest orbit
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Where did I say it should be just given away? Please quote?

tender apex
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i don't have that type of mindset though so i wouldnt be offended or upset at all

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i don't believe that just because "I endured xyz, so everyone should have to as well!"

torn seal
forest orbit
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You've had almost 3? years to enjoy your labor.

graceful silo
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why does it matter? if you already unlocked things it doesn't affect you

forest orbit
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And nice for you that a guild full of people handed you the azoth to get all the azoth recipes but 99.99 percent of players don't have that luxury.

tender apex
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id maybe understand being frustrated if you fully unlocked your guild and then a few weeks or a month later, things got reduced but guilds who have had things unlocked for a year+ shouldn't be so easily upset

forest orbit
torn seal
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Well that's how I feel; we just disagree, and I wasn't just "handed" the azoth. It took a ton of effort. Totally respect your opinions, I just feel differently. It kinda hurts to lose that "accomplishment"

It's the same reason I advocate for keeping housing items exclusive; I want to be awarded for playing the game for a long time and coordinating play with other peeps.

tender apex
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ya i have the complete opposite take on housing items

torn seal
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I'd also propose it feels better to unlock and decorate something you worked for; same with most other things in life. That's just how I feel though; I respect your take

forest orbit
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Right so it boils down to people shouldn't be able to make casual, or family, or kid-focused guilds because you feel that makes your guild lose "clout". I think KI can evaluate this argument.

tender apex
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well i still think that guilds should take a bit of effort to unlock but not the amount of effort it takes atm

forest orbit
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Agree, I don't think anyone was suggesting it should be free or even trivial.

torn seal
torn seal
forest orbit
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By your own account "If you’re not ready for the painful grind to get there I’d recommend you join an established guild. If you’re wanting to compete at that level get ready to up your playtime." So basically, sorry either become a hard core player or give up on guilds. Again, I leave that argument for KI to evaluate.

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No, I don't see a guild as a "significant achievement". It's a social organization for enjoying game activities as the group decides.

tender apex
torn seal
torn seal
forest orbit
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But if you just want targeted unlocks rather than unlocking all, then much of the school azoth you get is useless to you. That is why my initial post focused on making those recipes far easier to get. So a new decor guild can JUST make the school azoth they need to open the houses they want, and not waste azoth on types that would be used for other things they don't want.

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And since those recipes are also used for crafting housing, you shouldn't HAVE to be a leader of a hardcore guild to get them.

torn seal
forest orbit
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Well I think it should be scaled down some also.

graceful silo
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i think you're kinda going off-topic tho because this is not about how much azoth is required, that's a different issue

it's about how the non-basic versions of azoth are acquired

torn seal
forest orbit
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KI nerfs all kinds of things when it's old content, which this is now.

torn seal
forest orbit
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Honestly I've thought it would be fun to make my own guild just to play around with alternate decor for those houses, but no way could I do that with the requirements to form a guild and the azoth costs to open the houses

forest orbit
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In case you are wondering, my 2 guilds have fully opened up everything so I'm not posting here for personal advantage, I just have friends who are casual or lower level who feel shut out of the guild system and I'd like to see them find a place as well.

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I also don't see gathering many thousands of azoth as an achievement. It's just a boring make-work grind. And I'm not saying it should be eliminated but reducing it say by 10 percent now that it's old content, and making the recipes accessible so that people can put their azoth to best use does not seem to me to be insulting anyone's "achievement" of that grind.

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In fact it's a bit ironic that KI nerfed the raid by giving extra time (I assume you wouldn't use that though) but didn't nerf anything that would be beneficial to casual players.