Make Ice Better! (high effort and long post)

[pseudo dawn]

505 damage for a 7 pip aoe is just pathetic. You’re really gonna have to use snow angel in Azteca

[sour umbra]

lol and I've been over what my plans are with snow angel in azteca

[pseudo dawn]

Cam at least try and talk with us about this. The spell is like literally useless once you get access to frenzy. I cannot think of a situation, especially now with croak where giant is a remotely good idea to use

^ SpongeBob Ai gets it

(Skip to 0:16)

[sour umbra]

💀

[sour umbra]

oh we hit 1000 messages today

[sour umbra]

this was #1000 ggs

[cloud jacinth]

this kills me omg 💀

wizard one hundred and one

[bright abyss]

Kingsizzle

[quick condor]

What word was red oof

Oh wait i think i know I should’ve ticked off

[umbral bridge]

Probably the 5th word there

[pseudo dawn]

I believe it’s the one that comes before “off pve players”

[quartz hearth]

lol

just saw the new rain of fire thread, i swear the devs would rather buff that even if fire at least has some good aoe's like fire dragon. But yeah it needs buff

had some people on reddit tell me that they shouldn't buff frost giant and ice in general cause of "school identity". Ig for them school identity for Ice is being bad?

[pseudo dawn]

Based

[quartz hearth]

true, havent seen another thread get as much as this one

[umbral bridge]

Sad part is, frost giant was originally one of the big three according to the commercials. Rip ice mascot

[quartz hearth]

and it has such a good animation, like most of the og ice spells

i wonder what they are gonna do to snow angel

probably up the dmg by 40 and leave it at that

[vague hound]

No it was the p word near the end

[cloud jacinth]

The p word

[quartz hearth]

you guys know when test realm is coming out?

[rain badge]

not for like atleast 2 or 3 weeks

[quartz hearth]

k

[rain badge]

REMOVE THE STUN, BUFF THE DAMAGE

[split spade]

^^

[small seal]

^^

[quartz hearth]

just asked cam if he's seen the people asking for the buff

guy says that's "probably a large group"

i think they'll ignore it

[hardy brook]

Remove the stun please only change I have really ever wanted on an ice

[quartz hearth]

the cam guy always responds sarcastically, i don't think they intend to change anything

[pseudo dawn]

Have these devs mained an ice

Have any of them gone through Azteca on an ice?

I get they have full time and can’t always play the game they make but it would nice if they could try to see where we’re coming from instead of responding sarcastically

[umbral bridge]

I’d argue that playing, thoroughly testing, and analyzing all implications of any changes they make IS their full time job.

[sour vigil]

REMOVE STUN BUFF DAMAGE #JUSTICEFORICE

As an ice main, there wasn't a single time the stun ever helped me. But 150 more damage would've helped me 100% of time when using frost giant

[pseudo dawn]

i get it might be a bit of an exaggeration to say that the devs never listen but its hard not to feel that way when ice mains have been begging for frost giant buff for years and are just straight up ignored. Im not sure why theyre so opposed to making it do the same damage as forest lord (which is from a school with the same dpp but its just frustrating cause frost giant being a terrible spell is why ice is such a bad school to quest on.

[sour umbra]

better but we'd honestly prefer full damage 🗿

[quick condor]

Is frost giant drain back animation is him breathing his listerine breath at me?

[long citrus]

make snow angel single target

[long citrus]

I mean that wouldn't make too much sense for ice

[quick condor]

I wonder if angle and bone dragon wont be ots there kinda legacy but kinda not for the greater good

I have a lvl 50 ice but imma wait if people can actually convince them to buff frost gaint

[long citrus]

Wolly Mammoth AOE

[quick condor]

Might as well shadow pip aoe at that point

But i guess its good if you plan on double blading and don’t get a shad

[tame raven]

Alternative idea: rather than upping the damage for frost giant, make its stun a 'super stun' that not only works on bosses, but also 'pauses' cheat cycles and triggers for the round that the stun is in effect.

or just buff stun so that it works on bosses innately, because kinda doesn't feel good that as soon as schools started getting spells that could both hit and stun at the same time, every boss started to get stun immunity.

[sour umbra]

i would rather kill a boss than stun them

[long citrus]

I'd say do that for the storm level 48 spell. However it would be a lot more fun to play Ice with a damage buff. You can still make it the weakest school in the game but it doesn't have to be as weak as it is now 💀

[sour umbra]

you could make stuns so good but ten times out of ten people are gonna want to kill the boss rather than stun

[quick condor]

Ice was at a pretty delicate spot, i know people said ice was op in pvp years ago, and they wanted ice spells nerfed, i felt the school easy to make bad or good with even the smallest changes.
People wanted ice nerfed even tho they probably had less than 4 spells carrying them in pvp.

Ice is in a rough spot

[tame raven]

Oh ya, I agree that I would prefer thee damage increasee. More just saying that 'if' the damage doesn't geet increased then Stunning could at least be made into a useful mechanic that actually does what its name implies, as opposed to essentially being useless.

Plus, could make some cheating bosses easier. imagine a boss that says 'you can't feint me'. Well, throw out a frost giant on them turn 2, and that superstun now blocks their feint trigger cheat from going off, so you can freely throw on three different feints in that round and turn that boss from a slog to a piece of cake.

[long citrus]

Just buff the PVE spells

[tame raven]

Icee was somewhat broken in PvP iirc because they were, at onee point, the only school that had really good resist, really good health, and decent damage, meanwhile most other schools had to sacrifice at least one of those three things to get good in the others. This was also the timee where Ice had one of the best (40%+) blades in the game.

[sour umbra]

yes to the 4 spells thing

our spells were strong but we got by with them

now that most of 'em got nuked we dont have much to work with but we can still scrape by against like 3 schools

ive seen ppl say that because ice was good for so long in pvp that we should suffer forever cuz of it 💀 in pve too

[quick condor]

I hate that saying, even if i was traumatized in the past because of school or spells they don’t have to or deserve to be garbage. Balance out of necessity not out of spite.

[tame raven]

I devised a fix for frost giant. :3

[lethal talon]

i seriously cannot wrap my head around how the devs REFUSE to give an option with more damage at the cost of the stun

theres probably like only 5 players who want the stun

[quick condor]

Those 5 players are probably trolling at this point

And the last time they changed a legacy spell and got backlash its was a nerf to pve and damage this is a damage buff so(.what pve players like)

[sour umbra]

this is really great and is what most want them to do, but they say theyre "saving path Cs" for something

[tame raven]

Devils advocate: they don't know what part of the playerbase to listen to, the people asking for more damage on ice, something ice isn't meant to do really, and the part of the playerbase that's asking for school identity to be brought back in full force because every school feels the same where you can just blade blade aoe and win the game regardless of what school you're playing as.

[quick condor]

But the more damage tbf is balanced damage with the math. I feel the only players that will complain is wolf stormblade’s complaining about forest lord being close to storm lord.

School identity should be for bosses advance combat,raids and not mobs and unimportant boss

There should be a mix of wanting to just get your wizard maxed and interesting and rememberable battles

[long citrus]

stun on damage spells is the most useless thing ever

because most bosses have stun resistance

they should buff the stun mechanic on hits or do something ab it

[lethal talon]

storm lord works/worked in pvp, but thats because its almost full damage for pip stun

but frost giant doesn't fit in pve or pvp though because frost giant already does no damage

[long citrus]

yeah Im talking PVE wise but for pvp its different

[tame raven]

They should buff the stun mechanic so that it pauses cheat cycles while its in effect. :3

[long citrus]

you can do both, increase the damage on ice but still keep it the weakest and most defensive school

right now ice's damage is pitiful for PVE in my opinion

and the resist doesn't make up for it

[lethal talon]

idk why they nerfed it in the first place

[quick condor]

Life is noticeably faster because forest lord but also they get more damage on their water works gear

[lethal talon]

it boggles my mind how forest lord does 140-210 more damage than frost giant just because it doesn't have a stun

[tame raven]

Honest opinion, ice should be able to get full immunity to damage from gear by level 170. Pierce from monsters will allow them to still die to people in high level worlds but honestly I think that the school known for being a resilient tank should be able to go back to the early worlds and just no-sell the stuff back there to show just how far they've come, in the same way that Storm wizards can go back and turn 1 tempest everything in arc 1 except 'maybe' some dragonspyre and mooshu bosses.

[quick condor]

You can probably get a 100 damage on the ice before hitting arc 3

But it’s definitely harder than the other 3 low dpp schools

[lethal talon]

i gave up in arc 2 on ice because its too weak

and ice is just extremely boring

[long citrus]

just create ice on a diff acc so you can get your main fire or storm to carry 😂

[lethal talon]

i dont really do any content outside of beastmoon and new worlds anymore so that'd be pointless

[pseudo dawn]

Design is in this thread now I wish they’d check lol

[tame raven]

Your name is 10 damage to low.

[pseudo dawn]

Wasn’t it calculated to be ab 640ish with the dpp calculations?

[tame raven]

Forest lord has a range of damage of 620-680. Add the two of those together and average them and you get 650 as the number, which, if ice is going to do the same 'average' damage as life as it has the same DPP it would need to do, unless it would also get a range of damage of 620-680.

[pseudo dawn]

I’d prefer a set damage

I dislike damage ranges cause it’s a gamble

[tame raven]

Then ye, would be 650 as the average between 620 and 680.

[pseudo dawn]

Though a 60 damage range isn’t that bad

The abominable weaver type range is just annoying

It’s like 160 iirc

[tame raven]

Still think that stun needs to be completely reworked though to actually work on bosses. And preferably to pause cheat triggers and cycles to make it useful.

[pseudo dawn]

I kinda just don’t like the mechanic in general

[tame raven]

120 damage, 790-910

[pseudo dawn]

Ah, still pretty annoying

How about if they wanna keep frost giant weak they can, but they make it the level 58 spell and make snow angel the level 48 spell and have it do 650 damage

[tame raven]

Monkeys paw: The spells switch places in thee level, but they also switch stats. Frost giant is now the underwhelming DoT AoE and Snow Angel is thee underwhelming single hit AoE.

[pseudo dawn]

nah im thinking:

this is the compromise, give us a good 7pip in the form of snow angel, but make frost giant even worse by making it an 8pip spell

if they do this they better upgrade the damage

couldnt think of a path b

[hushed bramble]

I really like Snow Angel as a spell ngl

Animation wise

[pseudo dawn]

besides it being super long yeah

[tame raven]

So ice 8 pip spell with a stun.
So its 8 pips, but 2 of those pips goes to the stun so its 6 pips, and then its damage gets reduced again by a quarter. which I belieeve would bring it down to...375 damage for an 8 pip spell with the stun and thee AoE damagee reduction.

[pseudo dawn]

jeez that is an absolutely terrible rule lol

[hushed bramble]

Just get rid of the stun and replace it with a fortify or a self tower shield or something

[tame raven]

Its what happened to glowbug squall remember.

It was also an 8 pip spell (5 with 1 shadow, iirc shads count as 3.5 pips or somethin, right?) and when they changed it first in teest reealm to have it remove 1 blade instad of all of them they still nerfed thee damage down from 1120 down to 730.

[pseudo dawn]

Eh the dm spell nerfs were handled very poorly imo

[hushed bramble]

The first round of audits were just horrid

But that was the update that made questing boring so I can’t really forget it

[pseudo dawn]

Even now Cthulhu is just a straight up bad spell

I don’t really care personally because it’s death and they already have enough

Tho iirc at the time the nerf happened scarecrow sucked

[hushed bramble]

400 and enchants on drains were balancedish

[pseudo dawn]

Scarecrow was only able to be buffed to around 563 iirc which was pretty horrible. I’d say 75% of the buff would be good but deaths aren’t open to being nerfed even tho it’s kinda a necessity to rebalance the schools

[hushed bramble]

Pfft Death mains whined when Lulu got the 40% drain lol

[pseudo dawn]

I mean I think the change was worthless but it’s not really worth complaining about because it’s such a small decrease considering how much damage death usually does

I think 800 with 33% drain would be better

[quartz hearth]

no, they will make snow angel a single hit im sure

anyone who says they want the stun on frost giant needs to be excomunicated

[hushed bramble]

And ice mains whine when they play the weakest class and that they are the weakest class (though I do agree with the no stun Frost giant argument)

[quartz hearth]

are you sriously comparing ice to death? pls be joking

?

[pseudo dawn]

To quote Mr Krabs “at least it gives you a change to stop the boss from attacking”

[hushed bramble]

Oui the stun immune boss

[pseudo dawn]

Nobody im aware of wants ice to be a top tier hitting school. The game is so imbalanced in favor of attacking that we just want to be viable. Also this is just a bad comparison because death is favored by the devs and is very imbalanced in terms of stats and general utility. There’s a reason so many people choose death

[quartz hearth]

death is by far the most popular for a reason, i know this cause i have all schools except balance, and ice is nowhere near close to the absolute power that death has

i mean no school ias

is

[pseudo dawn]

Ice is furthest

[quartz hearth]

true

[pseudo dawn]

Talking PvP there’s like some debate iirc ab who is worst but ice is usually down near the bottom, usually worst or second worst

[quartz hearth]

who's the other? balance?

[hushed bramble]

lol not even comparing Ice to Death. But Ice is the worse school to play

[quartz hearth]

yes

[pseudo dawn]

Balance is best in PvP, ice or fire is the worst

[quartz hearth]

fire is pretty good

its decent

[hushed bramble]

Its alright I guess

[pseudo dawn]

I’ve heard conflicting things

[quartz hearth]

they need to listen to the community and add a 3rd path, and also rework the role ice has in a team

[hushed bramble]

Tanking? Right?

[pseudo dawn]

I tried a bit of ice PvP and it was terrible. I had no shad gear and I’ll probably need stalker and hunhau

[pseudo dawn]

Yes but it isn’t even good at that anymore. Not useful in a team

[hushed bramble]

Sorry death does the job better thanks to its utility, death is so good that it outdoes Life when it comes to healing thanks to Pigsie and Arcbmastery

[quartz hearth]

im not a game designer so i wont come up with something on the spot, they just need to make it so ice does have utility for a team

[quartz hearth]

ofc, that's why we're asking for reworks

[pseudo dawn]

That actually contributes to the strat. Maybe legion shield spellements

[hushed bramble]

Would still take a death over that. Plagues and Jujus are just… better for group play

[pseudo dawn]

Give life some sort of blade spell I’m sure they could find some way to make it work

[quartz hearth]

i think fire would be another good target for buffs, but ice is the main problem

[pseudo dawn]

And a weakness spell, and also a counter for weaknesses like cleanse charm since that fits with the roshambo

[quartz hearth]

life has a lot of utility tho

[hushed bramble]

It doesn’t? Outside of healing what in their kit does it offer to team play?

[quartz hearth]

a life is always welcome on a team, unlike an ice lol

healing is good on team play man

[hushed bramble]

Would take a death healer over a life healer for Death’s utility

Juju, Dark Pact, Plague

[quartz hearth]

there's times you would prefer a life tho, it will always have higher potential for healing. I'm not saying that it's near as good as death, it's just still a good school

[hushed bramble]

I’d take utility over raw healing power since your not going to heal every turn so your just sitting there doing stuff that a Balance or a Death can do better at

[quartz hearth]

i mean you could use that argument to buff every school cause death is op in utility and everything, but imo we should focus on bringing the worst schools up to something usable

[hushed bramble]

Ah Death, broken school that can do any role better than the schools that were meant to do said roles

[quartz hearth]

yeah

[hushed bramble]

But if they even touched the school, death mains would whine

[quartz hearth]

just make the others more versatile like death imo, but focus first on the worst schools

[hushed bramble]

But technically, Death havin my Blades and Weaknesses isn’t against the current Roshambo system heck they could give Death shields and it would still fit in the model

Ice does get some stuff that I find interesting too if they go all out on tanking capabilities with Roshambo. Shields, Weaknesses, Traps. Not bad

[meager latch]

the only reason death doesnt get more flack for being incredibly overpowered is how little they've pushed actual tanking

if more fights followed the titan's trident design of actually needing to protect your allies, it would become much more apparent just how absurd death is in comparison to other schools.

[quartz hearth]

anyways, BUFF FROST GIANT

[quartz hearth]

bro i just saw again the clip were cam says that they aren't removing the stun and says "womp womp" bro im so mad rn i cant

im malding

[tame raven]

Lets go crazy with it. keep the stun, buff the damage up, but give it a secondary drawback of it stunning everyone on the field, and bypassing stun blocks. Nobody gets to have a turn after ice hits with it. :3

[quartz hearth]

guys, this is forest lord spellement paths

we need the devs to listen and make it comparable to this man, wdym life gets 200 more dmg while being a tank class

[sour umbra]

lol i just realized the path As dont have their normal increased accuracy as the tiers increase

[quartz hearth]

true, didnt norice

notice

[tame raven]

||Lets give forest lord a stun so its comparable hah||

[hushed bramble]

Dieux si beaux

[quick condor]

Idk if this is chaotic good or lawful evil

[tame raven]

Chaotic Lawful

I have a strict moral code that nobody can figure out in the slightest. :3

Counterpointed agianst lawful chaotic, which is causing as much chaos as possible by following the letter of the law to ridiculous extremes.

[sweet mango]

[quartz hearth]

make all schools have stuns and utilities until they barely reach 100 dmg aoe

[sweet mango]

That’s lawful evil

[pseudo dawn]

added a buff frost giant thread to new spellements

[quartz hearth]

nice

everyone get in there xd

[quartz hearth]

#bufffrostgiant

[bright abyss]

#removestunimmuneorgivedamage

[vague hound]

That was in the period where shadow enhanced spells where introduced. Snowball barrage did more damage then storms tempest and with ices 40% blades instead of storms 35% blades stacked on top of that they became a school that not just outdamaged storm wich was meant to have the highest damage but also had the highest health and the highest resist. They also had another powerfull shadow enhanced spell that did heavy damage and gave them a tower shield on top of that, allowing them to combine offence and defence. So yeah they where op. But things changed since then, for example ice no longer has stronger blades then storm and shadow enhanced spells arent the most reliable anyway. And with the recent audits nerfing the strength of those really good spells to be more in line with ices identity they have since then fallen very far behind balance wich was also one of the strongest schools at that moment

[quartz hearth]

Peak ice was 2015, which was when I played most the game but I didn’t even have an ice then I was just a kid questing through Khrysalis without a care in the world I didn’t even know pvp existed lol

With my myth

[quartz hearth]

you think the devs will make any statements on this? idk if any have seen it

[inland carbon]

other than the "if they get loud enough" thing?

Im not aware of aything after that

[quartz hearth]

let's hope they say something

[tame raven]

That was when snowball barrage released. Polaris has been out for almost a decade

[quartz hearth]

true

[tame raven]

Time to go feel old now because i still remember when it was first coming out. Life was so much simpler then….

[quartz hearth]

i give up on the spellement thread, i cant constantly fend off trolls and on top of that they get special treatment cause theyre someone known so idc i give up maybe someday ice wont be terrible

also absolutely no one comes to help man, im one dude agaisnt all these people, idc anymore tbh

absolutely 0 desire to try to do a change anymore man cya guys

is nobody left on this thread?

[pseudo dawn]

They’ve migrated to the frost giant thread

[quartz hearth]

i see

[vague hound]

It was. Heals heals and more heals. And dont forget the heals 🤡😂

[quartz hearth]

sometimes you have to ponder over why someone would take joy on others misery but that person we just had the pleasure of meeting really reminds you those people exist

is ratbeard surrounded by these people that keep the devs on an echochamber?

[vagrant lotus]

Not you starting this up again here

[pseudo dawn]

I feel like picking up a pack of newports after sitting through that thread

[quartz hearth]

dw i wont talk more

i dont have a desire to do anything else lol absolutely exhausting people i cant imagine living close to them

well cya i give up

[tame raven]

Oh no i wasn’t talking about in game. I was still finishing up highschool back then; easier time

[rugged cargo]

is this the new buff frost giant channel

[rain badge]

no

[quartz hearth]

no its the old one lol but it doesnt matter, the devs dont care about what we say

[pseudo dawn]

Icephobia = climate change denial

[vague hound]

I know that, i was making a joke (hence the clownface and crying while laughing smiley)

[urban garden]

Jumbled thoughts, it's a little bit of everywhere, but just want to give my take.

As someone who exclusively plays as an ice, it always surprises me how much love and hate the school receives. But, my opinion? I think this is beyond an ice problem, and moreso an all schools problem. After arc 3, schools began losing their identity to what their true purposes were; a lot would agree ice was supposed to be the tank of all the schools just given their high resist and high HP. My issue (which relates to the main problem for ice) is how is it fair other schools are able achieve a high resist and not take a hit to their offensive stats whereas ice barely scrapes by? I understand there needs to be a balance, but then this concept should be applied to all off the schools.

That being said, I'm honestly okay with where my ice is at, but I don't disagree there needs to be some changes. Although I originally chose the school purely for sentimentality and aesthetic, I knew ice was considered the "slower" school when I chose it, but there was never a fight I couldn't survive because I had the defensive stats to take the punch more effectively versus other schools. Now with other schools able to achieving that same level of defensive without sacrificing a ton of the offensive stats, not to mention the piercing of PvE mobs and how our current state is "kill it in one round or your garbage"... I guess I could go on but it would be nothing no one here has more than likely mentioned. I don't disagree a buff to ice (from a PvE standpoint) is needed, but I don't think this will ever be achieved satisfactorily until all schools are re-evaluated and revisit their true purposes.

[quartz hearth]

i agree that school identity is important, but having a good reliable aoe is also necessary for all schools, which they all have except ice, i don't think it would damage the schools identity, it didn't damage life's or balance's imo, it's just a necessary utility for questing to not be miserable. Also i agree that they should reevaluate the other's schools tanking capabilities compared to ice, and make being a tank actually useful in pve

[urban garden]

Definitely not dismissing that as I don't disagree! I just think it's not going to be the ultimate solution either just given ice's current state.

Truthfully, I'm probably one of the few that likes the stun on frost giant, but no one is wrong when you are fighting mobs and they just outright resist the stun (but I don't think this is as common as to say like a boss). I think this is where spellement paths would become great to have... idk, this is beyond my scope on how I think it would be best for the development team to approach this. I mean I'm all for more damage, don't get me wrong I think it's semi warranted. But by how much? What if they made it similar to Medusa and it stunned 2 rounds versus just one, would that make the lower damage more fair?

[quartz hearth]

it's definitely not the ultimate solution, just a needed fix imo. I would do another path for it so everyone can keep what they want. Also about the 2 round stun, idk, it doesn't rly fit the spell imo, also medusa was good because you could use the double stun in pvp, now that it's getting banned the stun won't be used at all cause its not useful in pve.

[pseudo dawn]

If wiz was able to implement school identity and make them all like, valid for different play styles and give ice a good place in the team, then I honestly wouldn’t care much about frost giant but I simply don’t think this is going to happen

I love a slow tanky play style, and ice is able to do this very well I’d say until Azteca where it becomes more difficult, though this may have been an issue with me having a bad pet. I did notice a lot of bosses damage straight through max absorbs within 1-2 rounds

I think a part of the problem is that the wiz community only cares about damage

Though I think the devs egg this on.

[quartz hearth]

also they made dmg the most important stat by far compared to res or anything else, which is part of the issue

[urban garden]

Both bring up good responses; @quartz hearth my thoughts are definitely geared to the PvE-side, as PvP is not something I've dabbled into outside of Beastmoon (although, I just learned the card wand thing is locked behind PvP, so... anything for the aesthetics), so I cannot attest to anything PvP nor give any constructive feedback on what I think should and should not happen. But, in saying that, they should keep the two realms separate (which it seems like they're attempting to do with spellement paths, but somehow never works in their favor). As for Frost having it, it was moreso just looking at if the Devs can't seeing increasing the damage, what could they do to make it more favorable if left alone?

@pseudo dawn I do not disagree at all, Ice has its place for sure, but it is definitely being overshadowed by the meta that, imo, plagues the community. And I think you're right, I think the devs add to it because, at the end of the day, it is a majority thought versus minority. It makes me giggle, though, cause I remember when AOEs, in general, were touched on, the dev team (I think it was a KI Live, but I honestly cannot remember so don't quote me) did not like that this is what the game play has came to as they wanted the community to enjoy the content more... then Wallaru came out, and everyone got yet another AOE spell. Like..... huh???. Ice got challenging for me once I hit Arc 3 imo.

I had asked this question one day on Twitter for my ice because the damage stat definitely is looked at more than anything else, but I brought up a pierce vs damage question (but, because I am not a known creator, that gets lost in the thousands of tweets W101 and KI probably see): my ice, right now, sits at 177 damage and 35 pierce (but, we're talking 80% resist across the board); I could replace the jewels for damage versus pierce, but no matter how much more damage you do, you still have to counter the resist of the PvE mobs (especially in newer worlds).

[quartz hearth]

tbh, I haven’t played pvp for years since 2016 or so. But generally stuns are good in PvP and useless in pve. Tbh I don’t think any utility would make it as good as something like forest lord. Crow is great even if it doesn’t have as much dmg but that’s because it’s an aoe drain, which is probably the best utility in the game

Tbh if they dont wanna buff frost giant even if I don’t know why, it wouldn’t hurt the game anyway imo, they should make ice have a clear difference in tankiness and make that tankiness more useful for a team setting

[urban garden]

That's fair, yeah I just... don't know. Anytime I see someone watch PvP, it seems like the only spells that are used are typically the counter spells (like removes 3 shields for 3 traps, etc., I just don't know the name of them). IDK, I'm pretty basic in terms of just kill the things our out-live the things and slowly melt it (sounding like a pyromancer now, oop). And you're right, I am okay with no change versus a change that could make it worse than where it stands.

This is why I like to run reindeer knight on the shield path (I think that's B?) versus the DOT, especially if with others; does allow me to kind of stick to the core of being an ice. The shield does come in clutch too sometimes, but I have met the force where it was questioned as opposed to just having the DOT. However, that's an AOE I can just pull out of the deck as it can be circumstantial. IDK, I'm just trying to get the gears grinding on what I think would be the best compromise, assuming its left in its current state to what we see in test (Again, lots of thoughts, just spitting them out as they come XD).

[pseudo dawn]

For me arc 3 was okay

Mostly cause I had barrage. Arc 2 was bad and once we lost shad gear well in arc 4

Yeah that made things a lot worse

[urban garden]

Ah, okay, makes much more sense. For me, I think Empyrea was the first world I really struggled to solo, especially the second half. I was really proud to be able to survive some fights that I knew, on other schools, probably would've died rather quick to. I really had to pull out the shield arsenal, though, cause the pierce was no joke XD. Beyond then was not too bad, but had to change up and play a lot more defensive (definitely with bosses, mobs it varied).

[pseudo dawn]

I mean I would say empyrea is the hardest world in the game most schools struggle to solo it

[urban garden]

shhh, we're trying to make this an ice problem

[pseudo dawn]

True

[urban garden]

😂

[pseudo dawn]

Part of it was def ice like, the frog guy was hard cause you had to kill quick before he revived for full health

The only part 2 boss I didn’t solo was one shadow one who was just insane and had 70 uni res, which you can’t pierce through as an ice

[urban garden]

Right, it's difficult for sure.

[pseudo dawn]

Like now with my pierce set up where I have 50 pierce I’d be fine, then I alternated between cabalist and dm gear

I had little to no pierce, maybe 15-20

[pseudo dawn]

The big thing is like our good hits as ices are aoe shads like barrage

[quartz hearth]

I just hope they don’t touch my barrage, only decent spell I have to kill

[urban garden]

Yep, and with the newer gear, without sacrificing soo much, shadow pips are super difficult to come by.

[pseudo dawn]

But shads aren’t reliable. Like if frost giant did respectable damage it would be a lot easier to survive and take down these harder bosses

[pseudo dawn]

I carried a friend through Khrys last week. It was horrible

Took me 10 rounds to get a shad on ghost dog

[urban garden]

Right; I, honestly, still pack it with my regular mob deck in the hope that maybe I'll get a shadow pip cause barrage > everything else

[quartz hearth]

I love barrage but the shad makes it bad for mobs

[urban garden]

That's rough @pseudo dawn , but I believe it. And I agree, but I still pack it at-least in hopes that itll pop; otherwise, its giant, croak or reindeer, just whatever pops first (I like variation, at least)

[quartz hearth]

Yeah

[umbral bridge]

What if we just get rid of the ice school? The spiral ain’t big enough for 7 schools. And we can just give the open spot to balance so they don’t have to travel to Egypt every time 😄

(Death stays in night side. Dworgyn creepy 🤮)

[tame raven]

Lets add 4 more schools, the astral ones and a school that's opposite to shadow.

[pseudo dawn]

This person gets it

[pseudo dawn]

I think the astral schools collectively are the opposite of shadow

[quartz hearth]

Yes delete ice we hate ice

[sweet mango]

You can hit 50 pierce right now

[quartz hearth]

Daily Buff frost giant reminder

[small seal]

your right on the money about this. we want Frost giant fixed first and foremost but the school itself has lost its identity and will need a large scale rework to address that

[pseudo dawn]

i would love for identity to makes it way back into the game but i think as a whole identity is kinda gone, some remnants of it remain like balance being a good support but i mean, healing is mostly useless in the meta (this is kinda the fault of the playerbase) andi havent used legion shield since darkmore in a team

i feel like school identity should be more like a quirk of a school rather than its whole identity, cause that would be easier to implement

i certainly dont think all schools should have storm tier damage but like

[cerulean axle]

Per the developer diary for the 2020 spell audit the point of buffing the rank 7 AoEs was to give players “momentum” moving forward into the next arc. Some of the rank 7s got some pretty dramatic changes (Forest Lord, Power Nova, and Orthus is particular) which AFAIK no one ever complained about. Frost Giant was the only spell that got nerfed slightly with a -15 decrease in base damage.

What I think most people want here is for Ice to just get the same treatment as the other schools, where they’re given a solid damage AoE spell that makes questing through the mid-to-late game a smoother and more streamlined process. As for school identity, I feel like that is something that can be expanded upon more in challenge mode/advanced combat which is more late-to-endgame anyways. When it comes to just questing through the storyline, though, I’m not particularly bothered by a relative lack of school identity when I’m just mowing down street mobs.

If I were to parallel this to anything it would be the change to Rainbow Serpent on the Wallaru test realm. Originally it required 2 schools pips, and was therefore the only new AoE that couldn’t be used on turn 1. Considering that every other school could use their AoE on turn 1, it led to this feeling of one school “missing out” or being excluded from a handy new toy that every other school got. I’m glad they adjusted the spell to be more in-line with the other Wallaru AoEs. I’d like to see Frost Giant/Ice get the same treatment by having the relatively useless stun removed in exchange for better damage, to bring their questing/leveling experience more in line with other schools.

[urban garden]

Honestly, I am surprised they did not try to tie in our school pip + the other school pip for the new AOEs (like Croak being 1 pip + 1 ice pip + 1 myth pip). I know thats only the case on lore spells (for now), but that would've been an interesting tie. But understand where balance's frustration came from.

But agreed to your comment; it honestly shocks me that life can effectively be a healing school as well as a damage school and not have to risk much of one stat over the other to achieve at least a decent compromise; ice, on the other hand, it is either go all in offensive or all in defensive, very minimal in-between balance (esp when jewels are at play).

Honestly if advanced combat spells is something we'd use more of in, say, dungeons over normal mob fights, that could be an interesting twist. I know they're doing so in challenge modes, but maybe something on a smaller scale in the normal modes would be interesting? IDK, may defeat the purpose of challenge modes... IDK.

[urban garden]

Yep, kill or be killed basically

[rugged cargo]

ice is not even useful in challenge mode or raids so yeah

[quartz hearth]

yes, very true statement indeed xd

[pseudo dawn]

i mean idk if this is official but like we have ice at pure resist which idk if thats really useful in advanced content

i mean im pretty sure the nullity has 70 pierce

[quartz hearth]

i mean according to that graph myth shouldnt get much dmg, or fire neither xd

[pseudo dawn]

storm should also get hp

[quartz hearth]

yeah i mean i wouldnt trust the graph

btw i just saw cam say that he made the arc 2 spellements by himself, so pretty much if he doesnt want to remove the stun it prob wont be removed

[sour umbra]

@tall gull hello! 😀 I would love to talk with you one on one about this ^ I've got a bunch of talking points to go over, and direct communication is the best way to solve this issue 💯

[slender ledge]

The problem with ice is that its trying to be a defensive class in a game where it favours overwhelming aggression. The enemy will ALWAYS have more than enough fire power to kill you, even through the few valuable defensive cards in the game. At that point, with its extra bulk being moot, it offers very little to progress you or your teammates gameplan.

The gameplan being to kill the enemy as fast as possible. Just like most games, the best defensive ability is to make sure the enemy can't hit you.

[quartz hearth]

Yes, but life and balance are good and they are defensive schools too, what quirk they have is unimportant, the only thing that matters is if they have good cards and necessary cards for team play

[slow minnow]

Ice has legion shield that is LITERALLY all they get and it's not even that good...

[quartz hearth]

True, if I want to support in a team I always look around all my cards and I end up packing legion shield cause other than tri blades that everyone gets you don’t have any good support spells as an ice

Or feint that everyone gets

[slow minnow]

or tower shield

that everyone gets

funny that

[quartz hearth]

Yeah lol

Idk, I think the quirk of ice being a tank is not a problem, the problem are the cards

I mean look at myth, it’s quirk being minions but it’s still a very good school nowadays, because myth has good cards

[slow minnow]

The problem is the Devs do not give a flying flamingo fart in the wind about the school and they haven't since the 2020 summer spell audit.

[quartz hearth]

Yep

You think cam will answer ice gold? Xd

Prob not but I’d rather stand corrected tbh

[slow minnow]

Cam can't even answer himself let alone valid outside criticism...

[quartz hearth]

I mean I’ve seen him all over the other suggestion threads

[slow minnow]

Funny how he ignores this one

[quartz hearth]

Yeah it’s weird, cause it’s by far the most supported

[slow minnow]

*Sorry convenient

[quartz hearth]

Oh well, there’s still some test realm left, so let’s wait ig

[slow minnow]

It is what it is, not much you can do when the people you are trying to convince certain ideas have the feedback reception of a pile of rocks.

[quartz hearth]

Yeah lol

[vague hound]

Actually according to roshambo balance is the opposite of shadow

Shadow is at the outskirts and balance it at the center, so their placements are opposite

[quartz hearth]

maybe the devs will say something here when the week starts

[small seal]

is it possible to add polls in here? i think it would be good if we can all unaminously agree on what we want Frost Giant to be right now and then later, brainstorm and pin ideas for an Ice rework later on down the line.

its not like most of us arent repeating ourselves but i think organising this thread a bit could really help

[quartz hearth]

it would be a good idea, idk if you can do it tbh

[quartz hearth]

ig everyone can upvote the buff ice but it already kinda does that in the title of the thread with all the hearts lol

[quartz hearth]

ig we can make it formal and have a reaction for buff giant or not

someone do the question xd

[quartz hearth]

Guys they haven’t changed anything in new test realm have they?

Can’t check on it

[shell fjord]

Not currently specifically related to this

[cerulean axle]

Frost Giant top path is unchanged, still has the stun on TR

[quartz hearth]

Wdym

[shell fjord]

No changes

[quartz hearth]

Ah ok ty

[quartz hearth]

Ty too

[quartz hearth]

Poll: buff frost giant and remove the stun: (upvote for yes, downvote for no)

[swift barn]

Nerf frost giant damage, they should be tanking and stunning

[pseudo dawn]

How about you find something better to do than trolling

(I accidentally mistook you for the other one from the frost giant thread)

[pseudo dawn]

School identity is completely dead and there’s no point in the dev team trying to revive it. Stunning is rarely useful even when it works it just prolongs the fight, and the enemy conserves the pips it was going to use and they gain another one, ao they can use a higher damage spell. Tanking isn’t really viable after mirage. I doubt you know this from experience as you’re a death storm main but Ice’s defense capabilities just don’t come near the boss’s offensive capabilities which I pointed out numerous times in the frost giant thread. The meta is a quick kill. Because of extra resist and hp ice can last a bit longer than other schools but with the pierce of arc 4 (and some empyrea) bosses it would make the difference of a few rounds. I feel like you think we want the damage of storm. We don’t. Nobody asked for this. Y’all repeatedly spammed “don’t raise dpp” even though we didn’t ask for that. Yeah you guys changed it but it kinda shows you didn’t understand our argument and desire in the first place.

Not sure why I wrote a text wall engaging with a fossil fuels CEO level climate denier but 🤷‍♀️

I am fine with terrible crit. Im fine with life outclassing ice in hp. I’m fine with the terrible stats we get even compared to non damage focused schools like life in dm and ww gear. I think ice should have their defense utilities reworked (although i’m gathering some of the pro stun crowd things ice defense utilities are fine). I also think that ONE spell of theirs needs to be buffed to be consistent with other 7 pip aoes (like forest lord).

[swift barn]

Just change schools if you don't like the slower pace, storm lord also has a stun

Ice is also decent in PvP now, there shouldn't be any complaints about it

[pseudo dawn]

I think that people should have to change schools to have a 7pip that does actual damage, like life’s (which has the same dpp) or balance’s (which got buffed a few years ago)

[pseudo dawn]

If you don’t wanna see complaints about it leave the thread idk what to tell you. Most of the people here are ice mains, some like me like tanking even. Most of us understand questing on ice sucks, and that tanking isn’t viable in arc 4 since the bosses’ damage output is higher than your absorb utilitiesz

[swift barn]

Your aoe is good enough 760 damage with an epic + stun

805 with spellements

[pseudo dawn]

You aren’t responding to any of my points even lol. It’s not. I know from experience. I know that other hits are far better. Like blizzard

[swift barn]

Not reading the essay

[pseudo dawn]

Ok buddy

It’s like 100 words at most. Feel like if you wanna engage with the discussion you should actually read people’s posts

[quick condor]

Not to throw shade but i feel like this is more of a petty spite aggression

I understand mukuro i dont want death to be bad (my first wizard 🥺) but this frost giant slander ☹️

[pseudo dawn]

It’s climate denial

They want to melt (nerf) the glaciers (ice)

[quartz hearth]

Bro really changed his name just to troll 💀

[swift barn]

I'm just copying @sour umbra

[quick condor]

Mukuro is just evil ice gold

Lol

[quartz hearth]

Lol

[pseudo dawn]

Change your name to FireSilver

If they were truly evil gold they’d be “Silver #punishmentforice”

Like so I’m evil almond now

[quartz hearth]

Silver # doomforfire

[quartz hearth]

ik its a joke but i wanted to share it lol

[pseudo dawn]

@quartz hearth

[quartz hearth]

yep ty

[fading swift]

Ratbeard posted this in Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/Wizard101/s/rRU8OZ0GKa

[small seal]

ok i guess they listened

😭 this is shockingly great. i feel like im dreaming. ty KI

[sour umbra]

I want to thank Ratbeard and whoever else was responsible for this - the Ice community really appreciates it 💯

@pseudo dawn we won

[sweet mango]

Finally 😭

[twilit quail]

no way

#NERFFrostGiant

[quartz hearth]

guys did we win?

no way this is real

we still have the stun? how

well anyway we have been succesful this just made my week and month

[pseudo dawn]

Eh, I’ll take it

[sweet mango]

We did win

[quartz hearth]

i take it, its a W

[sweet mango]

615 is decent enough, I'm taking it

[pseudo dawn]

@sour umbra @proven torrent @sweet mango and everyone in the thread when are we throwing the frost giant casting party

[quartz hearth]

decent, doing over 600, similar to pre spellemented forest lord, which was decent enough

[sour umbra]

day 1 of live

[quartz hearth]

we gotta have a party

[sweet mango]

Ice mains rise up

[quartz hearth]

so spamming this everywhere paid off so well

[sweet mango]

Took a lot of discussions too

[quartz hearth]

W

[floral ether]

Smoking that fire pack

[quartz hearth]

well, justice has been served

[sweet mango]

Now we wait and see it gets into the game

[quartz hearth]

yeah, we gotta see it in the game to be sure xd

[sweet mango]

Agreed

[bright abyss]

1400 comments later, we did it boys!

[quartz hearth]

yep

[small seal]

yeah the stun is still there but the numbers are casual favourable

[swift barn]

That's why too op how does it keep the stun and do that much damage

[fading swift]

Cam said that part of their rationale was that the 7 pip AOEs in general already are OP in relation to their spell/combat model, so it wouldn’t make a difference

[swift barn]

By that logic storm lord should be buffed too

[sweet mango]

Storm lord is already strong enough

[swift barn]

But you can just add that much extra damage to frost giant to a low DPP school

[small seal]

rat said storm lord will remain unchanged

[swift barn]

There shouldn't be any argument now to buffing spells like rain of fire/ call of kruluhu/ gaze of fate

[small seal]

khruluhu was replied to and said its being looked at tmrw

[quick condor]

Aye

[quartz hearth]

i agree rain of fire and cthluhu should be buffed

[quick condor]

Lulu W

[small seal]

so lets be happy that spells are getting the right attention

[quartz hearth]

we got a dub

[small seal]

as long as we're reasonable, we can actually get good changes

[quick condor]

I think mukure still on the anti gold arc

[quartz hearth]

yep, they listened

[swift barn]

Well I'm glad they're at least willing to add exceptions to underpowered spells

Even if it goes above the normal DPP it should have

[small seal]

i do wonder if we should start discussing snow angel. maybe not for this update but in general

what do we even want it to do?

[quartz hearth]

snow angel is like rain of fire, i dont think we need to touch it

[swift barn]

I think the best case scenario was adding the stun to snow angel so it had a niche

[quartz hearth]

frost giant still has the stun

[swift barn]

Now snow angel is just useless

[quartz hearth]

like rain of fire

it was expected however

[swift barn]

At least it still does more damage overall than frost giant, rain of fire still more garbage

[quartz hearth]

true, rain of fire needs dmg buff, its so bad. i wouldnt mind getting a minor buff on the first hit on snow angel too

[swift barn]

They should just bring it back to 300+800 like it was before the 2020 spell audit

Or 100+1000

[quartz hearth]

around that yeah, dragon is doing about 1025 or so i think now between ot and first hit

should do at least 100 or so more

[swift barn]

Yeah and I don't see it ever being op in PvP either so it shouldn't be an issue to them

[quartz hearth]

true

well gtg, cya guys

[pseudo dawn]

now on to our plan to make ice the only usable school

[sour umbra]

their rationale I'd imagine is that since stuns are useless due to the nature of pve + stun immune bosses, the utility does not cost nearly as much as it did, so the damage goes up

they figured this out, hence the damage buff w/ the stun remaining on the card

[quartz hearth]

i'd still prefer if they got rid of it completely but im happy with this

[sour umbra]

fasho

they removed the cost of the stun entirely from the looks of things - it just loses the ~one extra pip of damage cuz it does both at the same time but s'aight for now

[twilit quail]

Hot Take: no boss should be hitting 100% stun resist w/o a stun block or conviction up

[ancient tapir]

WOAH WOAH WOAH NERF FG 615 IS TOO MUCH ||watch the people start going insane and mald at me||

[sweet mango]

It's not too much, look at Forest lord spell lol

[ancient tapir]

Forest Lord is fine

life doesnt have much res compared to ice

just for buffing fg they should take away 5 res from yall

[sour umbra]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-fortnite-takethel-dance-gif-12100688

[split spade]

Nah

I like the change so let's keep it

[limber zinc]

I'm no ice main and even I see this as an absolute win

[sweet mango]

Mel :D

[limber zinc]

GG thaumaturges of the Spiral, you guys deserve this buff

[limber zinc]

Beka :D

[sweet mango]

Yes, we do

[bright abyss]

If this thread reaches 10k posts, we should get to this result! 😈

[sour umbra]

Aaa

Aaa

Aaa

[sweet mango]

It's ok

Our own time of pace

[swift barn]

Now scarecrow buff when

[sour umbra]

scarecrow's damage can come up when the drain gets nerfed :3

[swift barn]

Nah keep drain like frost giant kept its stun

But in all honesty seeing scarecrow at 590 always made me annoyed

600 would just look way better

[limber zinc]

[swift barn]

Same with storm lord

[limber zinc]

Ratbeard already said Storm Lord isn't getting a buff so nah

[swift barn]

Ofc Trashbeard would say that

[sweet mango]

Bruh just be happy what y'all got right now

Us ice mains and non-ice mains are actually okay with the change for FG

[swift barn]

Not me #BUFFSTORMLORD

[limber zinc]

lol okay bud

[sweet mango]

Storm is still OP, even with an enchant 725 + 300 = 1025 That's really OP lol

[swift barn]

Ice getting 110 free extra damage on an already balanced spell

[sweet mango]

Yeah, and? It's fine lol

[swift barn]

They got like double the health and resist of storm

#BUFFSTORMLORD #FROSTGIANTNEEDSNERF

[sweet mango]

Ice is tanky and does have a lot of HP, Storm is glass cannon and really OP in terms of damage

[sour umbra]

team do not feed the troll

[limber zinc]

Beka don't bother, they're a troll

[sweet mango]

Don't worry

[quick condor]

They better buff the damage especially the way people are saying 20%

[ancient tapir]

lmao it would only be fine going down to 40% bc even with lu being nerfed it still heals u for alot 💀

no point changing something if it isnt broken tho

[long citrus]

im not even a storm main but how does it make sense that storm lord does less than a myth school aoe

[quartz hearth]

it doesnt, 755 max compared to 745 for myth

[long citrus]

oh with spellements?

[quartz hearth]

yes

[long citrus]

didnt know that was going based off of the base dmg

[quartz hearth]

yeah but they added more dmg to storm lord than orthrus

[long citrus]

i still wish they made a spellement upgrade path for fire dragon where it loses the DOT

[quartz hearth]

me too xd

[pseudo dawn]

Icephobes seething over this boo hoo

They buffed frost giant because they realized 7 pips are already an exception to the rule. Frost giant did horrible damage and was barely useable, now it doesn’t and can be effective against mobs. It’s still the worst 7 pip by far

Scarecrow and storm lord actually do damage

I can agree with taking the dot away from dragon tho

It still does 120 less then storm lord and up 50-100 less than forest lord. Not complaining about this im just saying icephobes should stop crying over this

Since stun is rarely usable now it’s worth a lot less

[quartz hearth]

it does 140 less than storm lord and about 75 less than forest on avg, tbh most people i've seen are happy, its just a couple guys like our friend here mukuro that come to troll xd

[vague hound]

Honestly i think scarecrow and lulu are the only drain spells where i would favour more damage less healback over less damage more healback. Being able to hurt all enemies and heal from all enemies can give you huge healbacks

[pseudo dawn]

i support a lulu buff not a scarecrow buff

drains, unlike stuns, are very op

quite frankly i dont think death spells should get a full damage enchant, it should prob be 80% but eh

crow also got buffed by 200 a few years ago

really 300

which is a massive buff, prob the biggest non spellement buff in the history of the game

[pseudo dawn]

most you could get before the buff with 400 crow was 600 iirc with an epic, now with an epic its 890

i was playing my og death before epic so it was like 583

[ancient tapir]

They dont need to buff lulu, they nerfed the drain and it was a pointless change, death is completely fine

[quick condor]

Someone brought up lulu in the frost giant post on reddit and ratbeard said he’d look into it.

[ancient tapir]

They cannot buff lulu if they not long ago nerfed its drain, the point in that nerf was to stop the fat drains, giving lulu more dmg would literally be reverting the nerf from before

[quick condor]

If i remember correctly they did it on a whim because of a decision in pvp probably minions because minions were allowed around nerf lulu. So they nerfed pve for pvp.

It was so random because i was like “why wouldn’t they nerf crow”? It seemed unnecessary

[ancient tapir]

Pip cost likely, most spells tho are fine

[pseudo dawn]

I mean it’s hardly worth more than scarecrow now

In fact due to crow spellements it actually might be flat out worse now

I think they should make it worth the shad, have it do like 750 or something

Maybe make it a 1/3 drain

[quick condor]

Thats also the problem with von “just wraith”

Damage wise

[quartz hearth]

750 looks right for lulu

[swift barn]

Lulu needs buff scarecrow is nearly as good

[limber zinc]

Lulu does more damage than Mystic Colossus (which is 650) which is kinda nuts

[swift barn]

Mystic is trash too but good for bosses with shield cheats and shield spamming mobs

[limber zinc]

Kinda situational, whereas Lulu you get the heal back 100% of the time no matter what

[swift barn]

Ok? Doesn't help it's case that it does only 45 more damage than crow and 40% drain compared to 50%

Lulu and scarecrow have the same mechanic

Mystic and orthurus don't work the same way, so same can't be applied

[limber zinc]

Lulu could probably have a lil more damage but the drain needs to be nerfed a little as well

[swift barn]

Mystic needs buff too tho

[swift barn]

If drain is gonna be nerfed it would be need to be increased to 800

[limber zinc]

Depends on how much it'd be nerfed, idk what the devs are planning with it, but 800 base damage does sound nice

[swift barn]

But increasing damage also increases the amount of heal you get drained back so doesn't really change anything

[quick condor]

All im saying is if im hitting 5k and only healing 1k the drain penalty should be looked at 🤷‍♂️

[limber zinc]

I think you mean 2k? 1k out of 5k is 20%

[quick condor]

Im talking about peoples suggestions to lower it to 20% with drains in general

[swift barn]

20% is way too low

I can see 33% at the lowest

For PvP just make it 25%

[quick condor]

I can definitely see 33

[limber zinc]

20% miiiiight work if the damage is buffed more than it is now, but I also like 25%

[quartz hearth]

i would want mystic to do around 800, like in the old days

it did 880 back when i played myth

[limber zinc]

I remember that. And it was when it destroyed all shields too. So OP

[swift barn]

Honestly storm is basically back to or even better than before the 2020 spell audit

[quartz hearth]

yeah lol, orthrus was bad but we had mystic xd

[swift barn]

I don't see why other schools can't be the same

[ancient tapir]

Do people not realise, if you give a drain more damage, and lower drain, you are basically doing nothing but keeping it the same. you drain as much as you do in dmg as a percentage.

[ancient tapir]

What if they just make lulu do a 50 drain again, but its split between ur team, so 3 ppl 33% drain back etc, would actually create more strats, but ofc this would have to be a spellement path bc it should be pvp banned

[pseudo dawn]

the prob with lulu imo is that barely does more than crow and is hardly worth using, especially with the upgrade you can get for crow now. i get the drain is an issue, but the damage is just too low

the spell did way too much damage when it dropped but like, it does like half of what it did initially now

feel lke it should be doing 700 something, if the drain does too much 🤷‍♀️ at least you got a reason to use the spell over crow now

tho lulu is nowhere near as much of a slap in the face as mystic

[solid pasture]

Ice need new mechanics like dodge (chance to avoid damage) or pierce resist to make them relevant as it stands ice has nothing to stand out from the other schools

[ancient tapir]

or let ice have stun res as part of their gear sets, then u dont need to have more dmg

[solid pasture]

I was thinking also have a shield as well as health as a stat

[ancient tapir]

or

instead of ice having a stun for fg, why doesnt it just aoe hit and aoe stun block

that would give alot more value if ice players are crying ab a useless stun

[slow minnow]

Ice also needs an agro aura spell for intercept damage like some of the cheating bosses have for PVE to be useful in a team setting. This would be different than shadow sentinel as it would not require a shadow pip to cast. Let them be the tank.

[quartz hearth]

true

you think we'll get a crown sale next week?

[slow minnow]

Though tbf sentinel probably needs a rework in and of itself as it's just not that useful in its current state.

[quartz hearth]

most shadow spells need rework

[quick condor]

This reddit post actually makes me wonder

[slow minnow]

Yeah I never understood that either

[quartz hearth]

ah true i saw it, tbh im dont care too much about it, if they actually made ice's strenghts unique and important

[slow minnow]

Why is ice punished for accuracy

[quartz hearth]

i saw someone say that it's because the elemental schools are more chaotic

idk

saw this comment on the acc thread on reddit:Legends say its because KingsIsle hates Ice. One too many dev PvPers lost to Ice back in the old days, and so they'd nerf Ice. But no matter what, they'd still lose. So they continued to nerf Ice into oblivion.

The majority of the player base and devs are Death mains, so they banded together to nerf Ice, therefore Death will always be the most broken and overpowered school. Ratbeard mains Death doesn't he?

lmao

[ancient tapir]

the reason to why so many play death is because its simple af to play as, dmg = heal ez

[quick condor]

Other schools are damage and don’t die, with maybe shields and heals if your solo

[quartz hearth]

that comment about devs losing pvp made me lol

[quick condor]

I heard if the drain 2/3 nerf goes by wraith could do 330 damage

[quartz hearth]

rly? why

that is too little

[quick condor]

They either nerf the heal back or the damage formula

I hope it ignores crow or pve i guess they’re still debating

[quartz hearth]

well i dont pvp anyway

but yeah death is very good but that would kill the school

6 pips wraith for 330 is crazy

[solid pasture]

guys you have idea or you gon talk about pvp

[vague hound]

That depends on how much you increase damage versus how much you decrease healback. If you increase damage with 10% but decrease healback with 30% its not gonna heal back the same amount

[vague hound]

Appearantly its because of their high resist and health. But it never really made sense to me either

Also ice has always been 80% (but i agree that 90 makes more sense with their low dpp)

[swift barn]

Keep making these stupid theories

Death was never that good in pvp until like 4th/ 5th age

[quartz hearth]

bro it was a joke i took from reddit

[swift barn]

Death also has had a lot of it's spells nerfed a lot and honestly has the worst shads in the game other than grim

Draining is their identity and as a mechanic it will be op it's not that the devs made them op on purpose

[quartz hearth]

k i don't actually believe that, just a comment that made me laugh from the reddit thread xd

[pseudo dawn]

best not to interact with them

[quartz hearth]

ye dw, just clarifying for them xd

hope they make path b's enchantable, i wanted to use snow angel single hit

i mean its bad but 755 for 8 pips isnt the worst for ice ig

then i hop onto storm and see triton doing 920 at 6 pips, its so busted lol

even fire does 730 with helephant, triton is so good

[pseudo dawn]

ye that would be cool

[quartz hearth]

asked court he said it was a bug but idk, hope so

if so i will go bottom path, the dot is still bad lol

[pseudo dawn]

oh interesting i thought it was intentional

[quartz hearth]

idk guys, i still want a path without the stun, am i too greedy?

[ancient tapir]

you do realise if they change that it would also affect the mobs who use it, and if u want it removed for the spellement why cant it just become a stun block for your entire team

Dmg + Aoe Stun Block ez

[quartz hearth]

aoe stun block? thats a weird idea but sure. also the mobs use all the other spells before they had spellemented paths anyway, i dont see your point

[ancient tapir]

if everyones complaining about stun being 'useless'

stun block wouldnt be a useless change bc atleast it saves you a turn using stun block (makes more sense too bc stun block itself is an ice spell)

[quartz hearth]

i mean if youre talking pvp sure but nobody will use it there, if youre talking pve stun block isnt rly used, also everyone gets stun block, its not rly an ice spell

but tbh i can accept fg staying the way it is

[sour umbra]

this'd be pretty great but if we're being realistic what we've already gotten is all we're gonna get lol

[quartz hearth]

yeah

they do need to buff the stats like resist imo, and other stats to make ice better, even if they leave fg with the stun and don't change it further

im ok with it not being buffed more if they look at the other things

[ancient tapir]

ice related spell, the card is ice itself, and im p sure u get fg from arcanum no? if you do then i can see it being used for pvp if it contained a stunblock

hit and sb is value

[quartz hearth]

the top path is banned anyways

[ancient tapir]

still would hold value for pve

[quartz hearth]

not rly imo

[ancient tapir]

ice mobs always fg
Storm mobs use sl

[quartz hearth]

they can leave it how it is if theyre gonna do that, they just need to buff ice stats

[quartz hearth]

yeah, but imo they should just leave it like it is rn if theyre gonna do that change, yk it doesnt actually do much difference

[ancient tapir]

atleast youd have more options

low dmg+stun, high dmg+shield, and whatever the bottom is

[quartz hearth]

eh sure ig, also wdym high dmg plus shield

[ancient tapir]

ice is all about stuns and shields anyways, would also still fit into the whole shield stuff

stun block is a ward so

[quartz hearth]

i mean it would be cool if they made a path with a shield tbh

[ancient tapir]

you have to compromise if you want smthn good, higher dmg and a stun block is 2x value if everyones complaining about stunning, being stunned in pve is alot more common so it would actually be easier for you to prevent that whilst still being a support ofc by aoe stun blocking the team, therefore giving more reason to hit with fg

[quartz hearth]

sure but i think most ppl just want a good spell to clear mobs and bosses, i wouldn't mind converting the stun into that tho

tbh i want them to buff the res to about 90 and give ice more hp

and have like a natural taunt

against mobs

that would rly help the school imo

[quartz hearth]

but yeah ig the stun block is pretty good if youre doing a 2v2 or 3v3 in pvp idk about other scenarios

[lunar crane]

I am in disbelief. Is this really happening?

[pseudo dawn]

It wouldn’t. Ratbeard has said that stun would be kept on mobs if the devs were going to remove stun from stun spells

[rain badge]

oh my goodness frost giant is fine 😭

[sweet mango]

Right, the change made by Ratbeard from Reddit is good enough for us

[quartz hearth]

ye tbh im happy with fg, just hope they buff ice's stats

[light garnet]

i feel that for ice to be solid again they should have higher accuracy to make up for their low damage output

[junior ice]

I've said this a lot, but for the stun to be "worth it", it would be nice if they reworked stun and didn't give immunity to as many enemies. Chances are, if something survives being attacked (especially at high levels), it will be immune to being stunned

[sweet mango]

I think just let the bosses have like 50% stun resist so you get 50/50 to be able to stun them

Might be fun to gamble your luck but just a thought o:

[junior ice]

I'd take a 50/50 over a 0/100

[sweet mango]

[quartz hearth]

i don't think they need to touch the acc, just hp and resist

[junior ice]

Also make resist more useful. Tank sets aren't really appealing for most fights when you could just overpower a boss with enough stackable buffs and brute force.

Granted, I say most because clearly some fights were made in mind with having characters that can take plenty of abuse like Mr. Montgomery (except it still isn't the best strategy since you can just beguile him or spam dispels).

[quartz hearth]

it will be more useful when they make fights that require it, maybe in a new dungeon down the year?

[bright abyss]

They need to work on the tanking aspect of things for ice and maybe every class that should have that with it, frankly I vote they give virulent plague to ice and replace legion shield since its actually good for tanking 😛

[ancient tapir]

75/25>

[lusty sluice]

I think the issue here that most people are glossing over is that there is not inherit aggro on ice as far as I can tell. What we need is a better aggro system where schools that are tankier such as ice and life are more likely to be hit even when a school that is normally a hitter does damage. Right now the mobs are programmed to hit the hardest hitter because they generate more aggro due to hitting harder and more often so we don’t fully experience the tankiness of ice in pve unless they use a spell like taunt which forces enemies to hit them. What needs to happen is the ai needs to be updated so that there are more chances for them to hit the tankier school without them having to hit harder to take the aggro from the hitter.

People want ice to be a better hitter however I think ice should just be a better tank school, especially when it’s put in groups

[sour umbra]

ice being a better tank would make sense, the only way to really draw aggro on any school away from everyone else is to have everyone else stagger join 💀

[light garnet]

I def do think ice should still be argubly the weakest out of the 3 elementals, but still should be able to pack a decent punch, nothing extreme like fire and storm but something like how life currently has damage wise, as well as being as you put it, a better tank school.

the frost giant buff is hopefully the beginning of those changes

[quick condor]

People are thinking everyone wants ice to hit storm level but most people just want ice to be in line with the other three low dpp schools in pve especially life.

[small seal]

its one of the 3 original schools with the Giant Titan, Ymir being 1 of Raven & Spiders sons

it deserves to hit decently hard just like its brothers, Triton and Dragon

[meager latch]

This.

[pseudo dawn]

bout to use frost giant for the first time since it was buffed

so satisfying

8000 damage round 2

[ancient tapir]

I think this thread should be done then if ice got what they want 🧍‍♂️ no need for ice to have more things when they do almost the same damage as death 🧍‍♂️

[small seal]

frost giant isn't the entirety of the thread

Ice as a whole has problems. id argue Snow Angel or its shielding/taunt gimmick needs to be revisited

[pseudo dawn]

ice is still the worst school

its a more respectible worst school now that frost giant is buffed

[ancient tapir]

you get the most resist i wouldnt say its the worst

[pseudo dawn]

which gets pierced through, hp means more

[ancient tapir]

pierced but you end up having more res than others

[pseudo dawn]

the res isnt significantly more than other schools

especially since this is ice's identity

additionally ice has basically no useful utility for a team setting

[smoky trench]

Personally, I think ice (and also life) should have more spells to leverage their identity to do damage. For example, since ice is a high hp and resist school, I think spells like immolate would work well for ice. Also they should have shield gambits for extra damage as well, kind of like upper path monster mash

Like upper path frost giant, since people are dissatisfied with it having stun, it could gambit some shields for damage to make it competitive in team settings or while questing

[swift barn]

Ice is good enough now imo, tanking is what their school identity is and if you don't like that just don't play the school

[smoky trench]

And what are they going to tank exactly? There's no room for tanking in this pve meta, all you do is blade and hit

[swift barn]

Well that's just how the game is designed, tanking just isn't that useful in this game in late game worlds

So I don't think ice needs a buff

Maybe just give enemies more damage less pierce

[smoky trench]

Then the role is useless, might as well delete the school

[swift barn]

Not really high resist is still pretty good in pvp and was decent early game

Ice doesn't need a buff, they just need to change the amount of pierce mobs have in late game worlds

And up the damage by a lot

Maybe make enemies always target the ice wizard first

[light garnet]

or make taunt more useful

taunt currently is just a waste of a card slot

[swift barn]

True maybe make taunt force the enemy to not be able to aoe

And only use single target hits on you

[light garnet]

Taunt costing 3 pips is also just super annoying

not to mention Mega costing 5 💀

[swift barn]

Did not know it costed 3 pips ngl that's kinda crazy

[light garnet]

Mmmm yes, let me waste 3 pips for something that will only help you for like, 1 round

[swift barn]

Definitely needs to be 0 pips

Fr who decided to even come up with that 😭

[light garnet]

1 pip would be better because i imagine it'd be busted being able to spam taunt every round

[quick condor]

And if the enemy decides to blade,pass or something its even more useless 💀

[light garnet]

though then again. idk

Literally no one uses taunt, like, i've never seen it used ever

[smoky trench]

Because there's no reason to

[light garnet]

exactly

[quick condor]

Imagine if ice had a refect damage spell

[light garnet]

i mean, they could always use that idea for a bottom path that an ice spell doesnt have

maybe some sort of frozen armor/ice armor bottom path, though paths for those don't exist by default (which saddens me)

[lethal talon]

taunts being 3 and 5 and pacifies being 2 makes zero sense

[pseudo dawn]

There’s not really a cost for similar moves in other rpgs that I know of. If taunt gets reworked ice should prob have more tanking abilities

So they don’t die insanely fast, cause damage output gets pretty insane

[small seal]

taunting needs to be on the board of things to change

[light garnet]

if they want taunt to function better, i'd suggest making reg taunt cost 1 pip, and mega cost 2 pips

[light garnet]

ice having much more health would help a lot too.

resistance doesn't really matter too much if it gets pierced all the time, especially in the later game.

[small seal]

taunt should force attacking moves

[light garnet]

someone here mentioned it should also not allow aoe moves to be used

[small seal]

just like it does in Pokemon. its such a good status spell

the aoe condition is tricky i will admit. ive been pondering over what is a balanced but satisfying effect for that interaction

[light garnet]

i feel like a good trick they could try is making the aoe only affect the person who used the taunt

though i think that'd visually would look wonky (as if some spells dont do this already)

[small seal]

yeah thats one way. itd be cool if you could change it to the single hit target animation the aoes used to have

so like old blizzard hit one by one so if its taunted, it only targets you. would look smoother that way although maybe that would create more bugs then its worth?

[ancient tapir]

It still matters if u get pierced tho, if u have 90 res and u get pierced 50%, you still resist 40%.
If you have 40 res and u get pierced 50% they will just boost 10% more on you

[light garnet]

you cant have 90 resistance though i don't think

[ancient tapir]

Thats what ice is capable of

[light garnet]

i thought there was like a cap for resistances

[ancient tapir]

People dont understand res still matters even if u get boosted, it matters if ur being boosted against or not

Just bc you get pierced doesnt mean your res is useless just means you resist less

[light garnet]

im not saying it becomes useless, it just becomes less valuable

[ancient tapir]

It holds its value

[light garnet]

agree to disagree then, but i'm wondering what other issues ice has aside from the obvious picks

[ancient tapir]

Ice is completely fine now, yes you get low dmg but thats why you have the res as compensation

[light garnet]

taunt and mega taunt could be useful but i do agree now that frost giant is usable

[ancient tapir]

Ive played ice more than twice and i have never had an issue with anything, even 470 fg was bearable, most ice players just want more damage even though the whole of point an ice school is to slow the enemy

Ice as a school is meant to be stalling time and preventing the enemy from either hitting or getting a turn

[light garnet]

i feel like they deserved having their own smoke screen more than fire does, don't get me wrong i'm happy to have it, but sometimes i feel like it'd fit more with them than fire.

[ancient tapir]

Like death, they debuff spam to prevent you from doing damage or healing, life gets heals, ice has tons of stall util, even if ppl say school ident is dead and ‘has been since 2020’ every school has its purpose, people just dont want to accept what ice was intended for

People will always complain about anything, i guarantee you a group of people will complain about something to do with ice within the next 3 months. People complain, sure maybe fg was low for dmg but the point of playing ice is to play slow and not to speedrun. Everyone wants to do things efficiently sure but at the end of the day its a game and if they wanted to be fast then just choose the faster class to main

[inland wren]

really the big issue is that there's no reason to do anything other than set up damage buffs and attack, which is more an issue of PvE itself (and the extremely high player damage output) than anything else. (in that regard as well, every school plays the exact same, just with different coats of paint)

[light garnet]

i have two close friends i play with, we usually make our ice go first, followed by the storm than fire. dealing damage while providing the other two time to blade up.

it usually works most of the time and they usually spam legion shields and use satyrs when need be (they have life, our storm has death, and i have myth)

only thing we really lack is a 4th member (which probably would be a balance if we needed one)

[small seal]

it just dawned on me that Ice doesnt have an aoe absorb spell but Life does with Rebirth....

thats so odd, i dont even know what to say to that

[light garnet]

would be nice if they had a spell that took percentage damage away from other teammates if they are hit. absorbs it into you instead

and the absorb could potentially heal you, idk

[ancient tapir]

Mass Frozen Armor

[light garnet]

LOL

[ancient tapir]

Would be too broken definitely

[light garnet]

i mean it depends

[ancient tapir]

Max the pip count instead of x pips 100%

[vague hound]

Frost giants damage is too high now please nerf 🤡

[sour umbra]

typical icephobe, dont worry bout it

[hushed yacht]

Too OP I think 300 damage and a 3 round stun 🥰

[bright abyss]

3 round stun would be actually insane tho, better than dusa and its AoE

[autumn osprey]

My roommate mains Ice, the prior spellement path that gambit 3 shields for traps on the enemy was one of his main strats. Poor guy's whole build is nerfed now.

Our student order is his Ice/Life tank, my Fire/Life attack support, and lastly our other roommate's Death for high AoE damage.

[light garnet]

neat

[autumn osprey]

I do think though that Ice should definitely have more than one shield all spell. If they are going to be a tank, then I think they should be given the capabilities to tank for the whole team, not just for their own survivability by using taunt for all the aggro.

[limber zinc]

Technically Reindeer path B offers that, though it kinda sucks that you'd be sacrificing having a really solid aoe dot for that tbh

[sweet mango]

True tbh

[autumn osprey]

It seems like a lot of the Ice school revolves around nerfing your damage for tanking capabilities.

[sweet mango]

You don't have to nerf damage for more tank, you can get a damage jewel to buff the damage, and losing a bit of pierce

[limber zinc]

I kinda understand that to some degree. In a team setting, it can be really good for Ice to sacrifice their damage output for tanking if the fight is difficult.

But since changing spellement paths costs 100 crowns each (aside from free training point weekend), and you can't change paths on a dime unless you're rich, it's not a good path to go down if you're soloing and need to deal a lot of damage

[autumn osprey]

I believe they updated the spellement reset to 2000 gold now though?

But yeah since me and my friends are typically in a team of 3, damage output is handled by my fire and our death, but when solo instance quests come up the poor ice guy suffers. I guess with enough blades and traps it works out in the end.

[lethal talon]

nah it wasn't added this update

[limber zinc]

It was in TR but Ratbeard decided not to go ahead with it

[lethal talon]

hopefully it will be added in the summer update

[limber zinc]

At least for spring update, it's not completely out yet I think

[light garnet]

wait till late april for anything ig

[supple plank]

we cookin in the Ice School now this meta

Thieving Dragon and Volcanic Golem changes are so good and I can fight Myth easier now

[rain badge]

Yeah Ice is really good

This meta heavily focuses on a "PVE strat" for the heavy hitters, so Ice is perfect for countering

[feral moth]

e

[tulip nymph]

no

[rain badge]

no

[feral moth]

no

[supple plank]

We're a Veteran 🫡

[long citrus]

What if they added to ICE a super OP defensive card for PVE so it finally has balanced utility in comparison to the other schools

for example a Super shield, which basically is a shield that lasts for 3 rounds

Also you could remove the stun from frost giant and just add a legion shield or towershield on self instead

[smoky trench]

That's basically brace

[ancient tapir]

No because thats what reindeer knight does

[ancient tapir]

This is just a broken version of brace as King said, plus this would just be pointless bc ice already has alot of res, if you combine their res rn youd have plenty of resist so no point giving them invincibility

[bright abyss]

I vote they give sentinel form to only ice and makes it permanent the entire fight... Or just make a spell like it that essentially does the same thing without it having to use an aura and such. It would be better than shields at this point.

[bleak flicker]

Ice getting intercepts would be awesome

[junior ice]

I'm in favor of a form of sentinel. As a school that literally has a sole purpose of taking damage, being able to take it for others sounds perfect for identity

[supple plank]

We're up to Knight now

[rain badge]

cat cat

[rain badge]

https://tenor.com/view/get-out-angry-speaking-head-tuco-squidward-gif-13808874276609302886