#Avoiding the Elytra problem

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

burnt quest
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Minecraft elytra are great, but they really blow all other modes of transport out of the water. I think we need to avoid this somehow. Here are some transport ideas, I tried to balance them.

Trains: Excellent at moving players and cargo, very fast, but require infastructure (rail networks). Would be good for connecting bases or towns. Make their rails cheaper than minecraft ones, to encourage use.

Horses: Pretty much as they are in Minecraft, but with the ability to move them over water somehow. Maybe they get a speed bonus on path blocks?

Pack animals: A high capacity but slow means of moving items, these would have immense inventory space but can't go faster than a player. Think camels, mules, oxen.

Hot air balloons: Safest, with excellent views, but slow moving. These would be good for surveying terrain for builds, and would be unreachable by monsters, but as the slowest practical transport, they would not replace horses or railways.

So the fastest and highest capacity method would be trains, but hindered by logistics. Horses and pack animals would be good for less developed areas, and hot air balloons would allow flight (but little else). Is this balanced? Please discuss

wintry idol
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I like this idea a lot. It's the same with the small discussion about an "ultimate" material versus multiple top-tier materials with their own pros and cons. If there's a "best," then the game becomes simply attaining and implementing that one thing everywhere possible.

Each one should have its own niche. I like the ideas you suggest about trains for efficiency but tamed animals for flexibility. I think there's a lot to explore here.

burnt quest
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Thanks, I put a lot of thought into the balance. I really don't think grindy or rare items are the solution, they just make people waste time doing boring stuff (i.e. strip mining, AKF farms, etc)

wintry idol
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I think it's fine to grind for rare materials in order to get to the top tier of something, but it's important that there isn't a singular top tier thing. Having the best way to do anything shouldn't work in literally every case.

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There should be incentives to use more than just one.

burnt quest
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yeah, that makes sense

desert dock
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Pack animals need to have wagons or something like that.

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That's the real reason they are amazing. Minecraft misses out on that, even before shulkers were introduced.

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A good mix of grind and non-grind is actually pretty attainable here, as well as avoiding the high-tier. Breeding. You want more speed with your oxen? You'll lose some carrying capacity. More carrying capacity? Expect your speed to decrease.

burnt quest
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I think something like the pack brahmin from Fallout would be easier to make, it can just copy the animations/hitbox/etc from the base pack animal. A cart that gets towed would be harder. I gave trains a pass because they follow a set path, so are more manageable (i.e. the train can't turn a tight corner? Make it impossible to place rails in that layout)

desert dock
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Yeah, figuring out how to handle slopes is a biggie.

I think part of the issue is that in real life, animals can carry multiple times what a person can, whereas in video games, there isn't an easy way to provide that balance without greatly hindering certain cases.

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*animals w/o cart

midnight mural
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I like all of these ideas!

Especially the bit about "no best resource" (minecraft has only really added utility in the last like 5 years of its 20 year existance)

I think the closest thing minecraft has to wagons is the lamma caravans. Its kinda hard to imagine wagons on such varied terrain, but I like pack animals and trains quite a bit!

I think this brings up another important question,

Since space travel is assumed, so the player will be able to travel multiple planets, what balances space ships against all of this? I'd guess fuel.

Are there even space ships or will it be craft-able portals?

austere pecanBOT
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GG @midnight mural, you just advanced to level 2!

burnt quest
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As space hasn't really been talked about, I don't know how to balance it. Thats a question for Incandescent Games himself haha

desert dock
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Air resistance! The air in Planetsmith is probably heavier than our atmosphere, which greatly causes drag. That reduces speed of all spaceships in the atmosphere. Might still be faster to take a rocket around the planet, but it has to be faster to leave and re-enter the atmosphere in order for spaceship surface travel to make sense. The fuel cost would also be greater, and so you might only see rocket surface travel on airless planets (probably just moons)

midnight mural
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Hmmmmm I think players probably won't care about air resistance as long as space ship fuel is quite costly

tulip nova
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Hot air balloon is genius

desert dock
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Nah, the air resistance is a lore explanation. The mechanics would just be a speed limit in the atmosphere, and an increased fuel usage.

lusty gust
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also spaceships, but i think they shouldn't be able to hover to not make them op

desert dock
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Hovering is actually a fine mechanic, if done appropriately. For example, if you only allow it to hover 2-3 blocks off the ground, only short ships could effectively explore hills, and any big ship would need gradual inclines. Also, they are slower since they have to separately generate their lift (which effectively means their efficiency, when compared to other travel methods, decreases with every level of speed)

lusty gust
desert dock
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Yeah, hovercraft are very limited in height. They don't operate with air-on-air thrust, they operate with air-on-ground thrust. Balloons are straight buoyancy, so the ground (or lack of) doesn't impact them at all.