hence why are looking the patches stuff
#Modding the MGS1 emulator
meager yacht
Lmao, poor johnny 🤣
pure radish
there's a disturbing level of texture detail there
haughty iron
Lol
dusty radish
imo someone should edit more detail into the unveiled ass
maybe there are lore implications, the origins of johnnys bowels themselves
haughty iron
💀
chrome path
If you sequence break the games where his worthless butt is pixelated, and approach his body without a shirt on, you can see raw Johnny cheeks.
haughty iron
I know but that doesn't truly count since you're breaking the sequence. I was talking about a version where there's just no censorship on his ass
Anyway for me it's simple. I just wanted the pixelation because that's what I grew up with and I don't want that to change because it's a fine shitpost
Makes you blow some air outta your nose
That's it
keen wharf
It is questionable that it is the case for all versions to be fair
Like if it was only Japanese and Integral it was fine since that's how the game was originally but for US it was with the pixelation
And if the point is censorship, it's still questionable since we have MGS2 in this collection
chrome path
PAL was pixellated
soft falcon
Are you sure about that?
chrome path
I think he's wrong.
soft falcon
I know that the ps3 can output a minimum of 480i but it doesn't mean it's rendered internally at 480i no matter the resolution
chrome path
MGS1, technically, runs at 480i.
240p is a workaround/hack of the standard.
Even if the PS3's minimum res mattered, it doesn't.
If every two frames interlace with each other, but you just don't render a frame for the second half of that interlacing (to give more render time), the frame's no longer interlaced. You just have half the typical vertical resolution.
At half the framerate.
It's the difference between how CRT "pixels" are wider, and modern pixels are more square.
!
haughty iron
This ruined my day, thanks
chrome path
What, CRTs and classic games being incompatible with modern displays, or Johnny's sweet cheeks?
haughty iron
Johnny
Blurred Johnny
Uncensored wasn't the right wording
More like altered
It's funnier with the blur on
But it's just a detail, I don't really care about it that much
I'd care way more about 9x res, 16:9 (GOG supports 21:9 too and it looks great)
and overclocking
Aka steady 30 FPS
That's it
chrome path
I could never get MGS1 to benefit from overclocking.
haughty iron
Why
chrome path
Just didn't change the framerate at all.
haughty iron
On which emulator
chrome path
A few, back-when. A couple on Retroarch that supported it.
haughty iron
I had the same issue on DuckStation
chrome path
And PCSXR when ti was new.
haughty iron
Then I realized what was happening
Basically the "per game" setting was overriding the in-general setting
And the per game setting was at 100%
I'll fetch a couple vids showcasing what OC does
If you want
chrome path
I'll fetch a couple vids showcasing what OC does
Oh hey it works now.
I must've done something wrong back then.
Or I triied it when it was too early.
haughty iron
I found that 200% wasn't enough for Ocelot
300% or more is needed for that scene
Where he loses his hand
Haven't found any scenes more demanding than that
Can prolly go to 400% without issues
dusty radish
just as kojimbles intended
haughty iron
dusty radish
it's for the cinematic effect
haughty iron
it's for the cinematic effect
No cause then it'd be locked to a specific value like it does when you dive underwater
dusty radish
chrome path
How am I meant to know an explosion's happening if the framerate doesn't shit the bed?
haughty iron
The real PSX experience
Well all jokes aside, this is probably the most important feature the MC is lacking rn
The game runs objectively better on external emulators
Or rather, a user has the option to run it better
For the record, it still gets locked to 20 FPS when you're underwater
Which leads me to believe it was an intended feature (GOG actually lacks that)
Kinda like how when Vamp slaughters the Bravo team members in MGS2 the game gets locked at 15 FPS for a few seconds for a cinematic effect
chrome path
For the record, it still gets locked to 20 FPS when you're underwater
The framerate halves.
Internally, there's a value by which it divides the potential number of FPS.
60/x = y (fps)
You can force it to divide as hard as you want.
The game's almost always at 2. So 60/2=30fps
chrome path
Yeah.
I've tried forcing it to be 1, but frametied game logic.
The only thing that works without a hitch is the CODEC.
haughty iron
I just assumed that locking it to 20 underwater is a cinematic effect, same goes for the Game Over screen
OCing it does not affect either of them
haughty iron
Yes
And stays at 20
It's not all over the place like the Ocelot scene for example
It's 20
chrome path
I'll double check to see what it's doing inside, since I'm curious.
haughty iron
I got an issue with DuckStation where it looks like this
It makes it harder to use
As you can see, the minimize/maximize/close buttons are straight-up missing
It became like this after I tried to force borderless widnowed mode on it
Tried reinstalling completely, nothing changed
Never seen anyone else having this issue
Gonna try at 1000% for fun
As expected, nothing changed
GOG is actually not like this for the Game Over screen either
Both underwater movement and the Game Over screen are still at 30 FPS
chrome path
It actually does, you're right.
haughty iron
I don't think it's a bug
chrome path
But only as the text crawls across the screen.
haughty iron
Yes because after that it jumps back up to 30
chrome path
It's probably intended. Whether it's cinematic, or whether it's because the GAME OVER animation chews the hardware, I dunno.
But it's probably intended.
haughty iron
So what I think here is that it's actually the GOG version that has a bug
Or rather it has that effect missing for both cases
Just my hypothesis
chrome path
It might've been replaced thoughtlessly when they were translating the old graphics API.
haughty iron
¯_(ツ)_/¯
chrome path
Or something was incompatible. Because diving the framerate for an effect isn't very common.
haughty iron
Both "swimming" and Game Over feel very different
Well
GOG cutscenes run at 24 FPS
I don't know what fuckery is going on with that version
Real time cutscenes I mean
(IRL footage is at 15 FPS for both versions)
chrome path
I'll record MGS1 running at 60 for a giggle.
haughty iron
So basically break the logic
I never saw that
Only a humorous video which was fan-made (the extra anims were, I mean)
chrome path
So basically break the logic
The logic doesn't even break.
It just doesn't cope well.
chrome path
Can't get it to go to 120fps, probably because the PS1 hardware is accurately emulated or something?
haughty iron
Maybe the GOG version which is native
chrome path
It's not really native. The devs put a wrapper on PS1 call functions.
haughty iron
I know yeah it's not an 100% proper port
There are none of those
Then again if there was one now, maybe the logic wouldn't break at 120 FPS
Idk
chrome path
I'll try.
It probably would, nobody can be bothered reprogramming a game to work from frametimes into deltas, or the offshooting issues from that.
Even a native PC port from decomp would do the OoT thing of frame blending or whatever they call it.
Interpolation.
chrome path
haughty iron
You have to make it unlisted
haughty iron
So it does run at 2x speed or so
And also, swimming is still there
It doesn't drop when swimming
Interesting
So that effect goes away
chrome path
The swimming thing is just ducking the framerate. The game tries to do it for a few frames, it just gets overriden.
CODEC and BRIEFING work surprisingly well, everything is lipsynced. It's just, in Briefing's case, they end too soon and camera shots go by too quickly.
Cutscenes keep on freezing to let the audio catch up, which is kinda nuts.
If there were a way to feed the motion data at half speed, you'd have 60fps cutscenes. I'm just too dumb to figure it out.
haughty iron
That would be probable (maybe) on an actual decomp
But then you also have the 15 FPS locked IRL cutscenes
These would need to get fed to a good AI to interpolate to 30 at least, then see what happens from there
These seem hard to do
FFVII has 30 FPS interpolated cutscenes and they don't do 60 because of the artefacts
(og ones are 15)
chrome path
That's already too many artefacts for me. I'd rather just have the choppy cutscenes.
timid hemlock
Interesting. Wonder if game logic can be separated from framerate and locked at 30. Would be awesome
timid hemlock
yes
chrome path
Probably a decomp thing, honestly. If they could've done that, easily, they'd have done it for the underwater sections.
timid hemlock
Probably a decomp thing, honestly. If they could've done that, easily, they'd ha...
Agreed, don't think it will be possible for emulation, unless nuggs discovers something incredible
chrome path
Nuggs has more important things to worry about, like freeing Johnny's cheeks.
timid hemlock
Well obviously that should a priority! Free them cheeks, and cover them up in blocky pixelated goodness
timid hemlock
Honestly though, the cheeks thing is one of my main issues at the moment lol. The rest I can live with, but the bilinear filter, the d-pad controls and those sweet cheeks are deal breakers
haughty iron
The filter is removed
Analog controls are implemented
Cheeks are free
I want blurry cheeks
Not free
timid hemlock
I want blurry cheeks
Amen
chrome path
The filter had a good reason to be there, but because it wasn't optional, and because people don't understand CRTs, it got a harsher wrap than it should've.
timid hemlock
https://files.catbox.moe/mv8cip.mp4
I'm saving this for old age
haughty iron
To me, the real deal breaker here are the frame drops
Call it a pet peeve or whatever
Well tbh I don't like 240p either
At all
I can't make that shit look good on a 4K OLED TV
chrome path
I'll never get that. The game looks fundamentally worse when you exaggerate the polygons with resolution.
And then there's clumbsily buttering the textures over then with texture filtering.
It looks exploded and smudged. I'll never understand.
haughty iron
No, to me it looks incredible, and actually extremely bad when you force it to basically "stretch" to fit a 4:3 equivalent in 4K from 240p
I can sorta accept a 2x res with an HDR filter on
But I'd rather play at 9x with the widescreen hack
Either with no filters on or with a very discreet one
And downsample the 2D elements only
chrome path
The widescreen hack is its own monster. Those 2D elements are stretched horribly.
I'd be able to accept it if they were kept to their original ratio.
But then you'd have not-entirely-filled black screens and such.
haughty iron
That is entirely subjective. I don't think they're stretched "horribly" and the trade-off of being stuck in 4:3 is worse than having stretched 2D elements. But all these would be solved on a decomp
There is zero point in discussing what anyone prefers
It's counter-productive
I want my 4K
No one will ever convince me to play in 240p
timid hemlock
But then you'd have not-entirely-filled black screens and such.
I'm hoping the decomp will eventually allow for level editing, so we can fill out those spots.
chrome path
I don't even mind the polygons hanging off the ends of the screen. I mean like, the black background of GAME OVER wouldn't cover the entire screen for example.
Or, the letterboxing would stop just shy od the edges.
chrome path
There are no midddlegrounds here.
4:3 or 16:9.
Pixels or smoothing.
Filter or unfiltered.
Johnny's bare, puckering anus on screen, or boxers.
haughty iron
Smoothing?
chrome path
Texture smoothing.
haughty iron
Bilinear?
haughty iron
Eh, why not focus on something actually important
chrome path
This is important.
haughty iron
chrome path
The man has some dignity.
pure radish
pretty sure all of the ram patches are achievement-related
no real reason to disable these ever
timid hemlock
do i need to find out how to blur his ass
The blur kinda makes it. Nobody really want's to see johnnys pixelated butthole. The fun and excitement is in the blur, or rather, in the idea of what's behind the blur. It's kinda like lingerie. Once you remove it, the tension's gone lol
The blur is like the beeps on tv. It's almost more powerful than actual swear words, because you just know it signifies something forbidden.
chrome path
I think it was blurred, y'know.
I've not played it in a good while.
Johnny's ass is a tension breaking punchline. Snake peeks out of the cell, and the camera quickly swings over to either bright blue boxers, or a dirty mess of pixels.
I don't know why they made his shorts brown. Very weird thing to choose to change?
There it is.
This one really needed to be blurred. I don't want to know how well Johnny wipes in 480p.
timid hemlock
Johnny's ass is a tension breaking punchline. Snake peeks out of the cell, and t...
Exactly. It's one of the funniest and most surprising moments of the game. It's actually the moment that convinced me that this game was going to be different from any other game I'd ever played.
chrome path
I think that they probably wanted to have it pixellated, but Japan has some really weird restrictions about nudity -- even censored nudity.
And it's America's fault.
Did you know that Japanese porn is censored because America forced it into Japan's constitution after nuking them twice?
chrome path
https://files.catbox.moe/mv8cip.mp4
!
timid hemlock
I made chatgpt write a poem about it: The Ballad of Johnny's Censored Tale
In the realm of digital stealth and shadowed walls,
Lies a tale of censorship, in game halls.
A guard named Johnny, once pixelated and bare,
Found himself in underpants, a change quite rare.
In the original script, a blur concealed his form,
A digital fig leaf in a pixel storm.
Yet, in this world where games are born and die,
His nakedness was veiled, under censorship's eye.
Some mourn the loss, this change of skin,
Feeling the original essence worn thin.
For the blur, they say, held a mystery deep,
A secret that the pixels were sworn to keep.
It's not the nakedness that caused a stir,
Nor the underpants, a simple blur.
In this surprise, a truth brightly shined,
This game was different, uniquely designed.
Don't know why I did that, I need to go to sleep
I do like the part about the digital fig leaf though
pure radish
i grabbed a ram dump from pcsx-redux
and im experimenting with loading that into M2
finding interesting differences that are required to have the game boot at all
haughty iron
What's a ram dump?
pure radish
M2 doesn't boot ISOs, it boots a save state
ram dump is a dump of the ram lol
the psx memory
so i dumped the ram immediately after the bios finished in pcsx-redux
assuming that would be roughly equivalent
chrome path
And it wasn't?
pure radish
it varies, some stuff is the same but there are differences
the bios area (first 0x10000) is completely different but thats not hugely surprising
ive managed to modify the pcsx-redux dump so that it boots in M2
which means it has all the code they scrubbed out
trying to narrow it down even more
pure radish
the only differences are now in that bios area
all addresses beyond 0x10000 are from the pcsx-redux dump now
chrome path
Sweet/
Do you have an idea of what you're looking for, or is this really just throwing shit at the wall for now?
red cradle
huh... so where is that blur being stored?
chrome path
Likelihood is, it's just been given a scale of 0 or something.
And when you look at the code, it's gonna be one byte in an ocean of other bytes.
haughty iron
Bruv we still talking about the blur
pure radish
well it's technically interesting to discover why it doesn't work
with all the patches disabled there is no blur
besides the exe itself, the only other variable is the ram image
haughty iron
Fair
pure radish
it also happens to be very convenient to load into the game and check for it lol
i have a save right by the door
haughty iron
Can you use save states
pure radish
its hard to believe they broke this at an emulation-level because it'd probably break other effects too
haughty iron
Fair
pure radish
i think the emulator has built-in support for save states
but might not be accessible normally
haughty iron
So you have a save file after the battle with the guards?
pure radish
yeah
haughty iron
Alr
chrome path
Would a debug save go amiss?
pure radish
what do u mean?
chrome path
The debug save for MGS1 lets you skip to any point in the game. And the other couple games, too, for that matter.
pure radish
that'd be useful tbh, maybe its possible to have the mod control the game's debug features
chrome path
Also, if you got to there through sequence breaking, the pixellation will be broken anyway. The game doesn't like it when you mash flags together.
pure radish
nah these are just legit saves
its possible tho i guess, the saves arent actually mine
chrome path
If you're gonna use one of these, put it in after you've booted the game already. Steam Cloud thinks it knows better.
north estuary
Hello
Did you find a way to make the game widescreen? (at least stretch the image or something like that)
haughty iron
Not yet. Not this particular version anyway
chrome path
I've tried coming at that from the RAM side before. Usually on PS2 games, the screen dimensions are held in RAM by the running game/program running.
Couldn't find anything equivolent on the PS1
I've got theories how one might work around that.
But like, experimental emulators were starting to implement it as a hack around at the time.
dawn flare
dawn flare
lol
pure radish
literally got bitten on a night out 
best bit: by a "colleague"!
disciplinary.exe
this shit burns man
do i have aids
dusty radish
pure radish
gotta be careful in britbongistan man
dusty radish
i live it every day..
chrome path
You're in England?
chrome path
do i have aids
Depends on the locale. If it's Liverpool I'd start wearing condoms for other's sakes.
humble ravine
Normal night in Hackney
pure radish
i extracted some more of the DARs that they patched
and i don't believe the diff, its total nonsense
they changed one texture in there and i can't even see the difference
but it's the only file that was changed
maybe my way of viewing them is not kosher
they also patched some .rar files but idk what they are
obv not rarlab archives lol
red cradle
huh, so they changed something so minor?
digital turret
@pure radish did you have fun yesterday?
pure radish
🤣 recovering from my mortal wounds, so just barely
also holy shit we're all collectively daft
there's no blur because integral has no blur
hang on, which version of the game is even starting up for me rn
nope, that aint it
timid hemlock
there's no blur because integral has no blur
Damn, you got my hopes up with that one, seemed plausible
pure radish
the reason i mention it is i found the code in the mgs decomp for this
maybe it has some clue
timid hemlock
Damn, so you gotta figure out how to make those actor functions working again
pure radish
for integral i'm not too worried
i imagine it'll just go back to blue pants or whatever
and decomp is targeting integral
eventually if someone wants the blur in the decomp, it'll have to be ported from the european/american releases
coz its simply not in integral
so it really should be blurred in the version im running
im gonna look at the UK code now, see how it works
timid hemlock
Those actor functions being stubbed out kinda proves that the Japanese versions are the censored ones. Interesting.
pure radish
they don't patch s00a
and doesnt matter anyway i have all the CD patches turned off
keeping the RAM ones loaded is enough to stop the achievement spam 
timid hemlock
😅
chrome path
🤣 recovering from my mortal wounds, so just barely
How's the AIDs matey?
chrome path
im gonna look at the UK code now, see how it works
The UK version of MGS1 is identical to a fault. All we got was extra NG+ stuff. I think Tuxedosnake and Spiderman Greyfox werent' in the US versions.
The entire game, along with the cutscene audio, is at 5/6 speed.
Cutscenes are noticably lower pitch, matching the Integral PC cutscenes I think.
If the codebase they had was based on the European Integral release, which has been my thoughts for a long time without proof, it explains why MGS1PC has 25fps cutscenes.
But when it comes to Johnny's sweet cheeks,
I don't think there'd be a difference.
pure radish
i definitely remember the blur when i played it back in the day
chrome path
Yeah, definitelyu.
pure radish
integral ostensibly has the code stubbed out
so i would assume
the version im most familiar with should have more code here
timid hemlock
The US version should have for sure. Actually, all versions except the japanese/intergral versions should have it working
pure radish
anyone familiar with psx gameshark codes? lol
maybe worth taking a short diversion to get the debug menu working
then i can check the pants on the other versions
all but NTSC (J) set addresses +0x300000 e.g. 80316F00
but PSX RAM is 0x200000 bytes so.. hows that address decoded
pure radish
nvm just doing it a different way
chrome path
You can modify the save.
glad frost
I'm curious about the analog 'hack' that currently exists for MGS1 - i.e. needing to manually add a specific controller setup in Steam as well as the mod itself - what do you think causes that in the game?
I'm assuming something that can't simply be modified
pure radish
the game uses steam input IGA
it doesn't understand anything else
the IGA profile the game understands doesn't include a left analog stick
so as a quick fix we just moved the supported right stick (seemingly for manuals / books etc) over to the left stick
reducing the amount of work we have to do
long term would have to re-engineer the input handling
but either way, would still have to change steam settings to disable the IGA mapping
glad frost
ah right, that's very interesting
it sounds like in that case, there isn't even any point in doing any long term work on it? I don't see what would change
chrome path
What, are you Patient 0 for the T-Virus or something.
pure radish
dusty radish
pure radish
nice, mostly tidied up the stuff i was working on
got a nice way of booting the game to the debug menu too
pure radish
its kind of what the decomp's pcsx-redux script does
when the game tries to load the title screen it substitutes in a custom stage name
but it checks whether that stage is already loaded, too
so you can back out to the real title screen if you've chosen the debug menu by default
so if you set it up to use the debug menu, whenever the title menu is supposed to show it'll first give you a chance to use the debug menu
but you can quit out of it
prob only makes sense to do it with the title menu
works like this
should be sorta closer to how the debug menu originally worked
rather than injecting it into random saves or parts of the UI
pure radish
ergh
is it really worth adding a patching system lol
nobody made mods for this game
i'll deprioritise that
i've added options for undoing the underpants patches and the ghost pics
and booting to the debug menu
red cradle
nobody made mods for this game
not yet, I guess they want to but don't know how. Since the way to modding the game for now is repacking the whole rom
kindred chasm
We'll have to fulton the konami janitor and get him to spill the beans
pure radish
not yet, I guess they want to but don't know how. Since the way to modding the g...
i mean the psx game had no mods
so no mods to apply to this either
ppl had 20 years lol
red cradle
i mean the psx game had no mods
oh right lol well I guess the only close one I saw is there's a team translated PS1 MGS1 Integral into simplified chinese, I guess you can test with this see if text replacing works with MC, if you want to
red cradle
if you want to I can dm you files, since the download link in this is really pain in the ass
pure radish
sure, thanks
soft falcon
I got some kind of update for mgs1. No patch notes
pure radish
timid hemlock
Launched game. No update. Was indeed dlc nonsense
They sure are taking their sweet time. I wrote them a looong mail with a list of bugs and stuff, and they said the team was aware of all points I was making. That was like three weeks ago.
chrome path
Don't pin that one on KONAMI.
Bugfixing is pretty arduous on an already-published game. Especially for the Japanese.
And then you have to go through Certification. PlayStation's a skeleton company in Japan now, so most of it goes back to California, and issues that arise in certification have to get translated back and forth.
It was always difficult dealing with Microsoft as a Japanese studio.
It's a dark time if you're not a AAA or if Sony doesn't suck your dick. Kojima took a lot of leverage with him, when he was fired.
timid hemlock
Sure, I'm not really mad about it. Just impatient. But it makes sense what you're saying, I'm sure certification involves heavy amounts of bureaucracy
pure radish
yeah i mean
according to the most recent forza motorsport patch
it took turn10 months to fix DLSS
obviously it didn't
even for us, it takes a month at least to roll out an update publicly even for a fix that takes 5 minutes to create
by the time we've done all the verification and internal tagging and the product team have cleared it, suddenly a month has gone by
chrome path
A camel is a horse designed by committee, as they say.
pure radish
they'll have some sorta schedule they're working towards also
rather than just doing updates willy nilly and spend all their time in the release process
i.e. they'll say v1.4 is roughly this date and it'll have X Y Z
dawn flare
The programming is the easy part. It's the red tape you gotta get through that kills ya.
(relatively, anyway)
haughty iron
Eh I still lean towards what Digital Foundry said: if fans could reverse engineer the GOG version to a point where most of its issues were fixed, KONAMI could also do the same and decompile MGS1, given enough time, then make it native for each system. That is the proper way to do a port on any platform. They just deemed it unnecessary
I'm not saying it's easy, I'm saying that, ideally, that's what they should have done even if it required a ton of effort
It'd solve all problems from their root. Now they just applied a bandaid
pure radish
no they just deemed it extremely high risk
konami decompiling mgs1 is the most crackpot idea you espouse
its years of work, and even if you succeed you have a terrible code base to work with
and only then are you beginning the "port"
you might as well just tell them to rewrite the game from scratch
that actually makes more sense
this is more effort than the entire vol1 and vol2 combined
cerulean bough
DF always trivializes process like this: "Just decompile it like fans did"
You mean the fan effort that has taken years of work, using info that has been accumulated over a decade of tinkering with the port
kindred chasm
Mgs1 should've had a remake with mg1 and 2 instead of snake eater
cerulean bough
And now you expect a business to put employees they have to pay for those hours towards that effort instead of a task far more efficient, ushc as devloping and progressing your current IPs
I love some DF, they make alot of information about game VFX alot more accessible
But alot of the times they just say mumbo jumbo without understanding it at all LOL
haughty iron
DF always trivializes process like this: "Just decompile it like fans did"
Love how you keep subjectifying objective statements lol but ok
haughty iron
But alot of the times they just say mumbo jumbo without understanding it at all ...
They understand it
They're literally engineers
KONAMI has fucked up royally, on all accounts
pure radish
lol
lay off the crack buddy
"theyre engineers" lol
im an "engineer" and what theyre saying is complete piffle
its just not viable for them to decompile mgs1 hahahahaha
chrome path
you might as well just tell them to rewrite the game from scratch
I'd imagine twin snakes would be simpler to work with, even. Given it's reasonably more modern, and they probably still have source code
chrome path
They're literally engineers
Who are? Digital Foundry? They're industry insiders and journalists. Some of the only decent and honest ones, most of the time. And their complaints are correct.
But if you are a programmer, you realise most humans complain in the forms of solutions. The true reverse engineering effort on the part of engineers almost always goes toward figuring out what a user is complaining about.
haughty iron
I mentioned that a decomp isn't the only way to do it. For example, SE rewrote a lot of FFIX to port it on PC
That's another way to do it properly instead of emulating it
No one boxed KONAMI into a corner and forced them to release it in October
pure radish
🤣
chrome path
Financial incentive. Konami isn't special. The issue is industry wide. The original bluepoint effort wasn't decent to me either.
Behind every cynic is an extremely naive and disappointed idealist.
haughty iron
I already said that too
chrome path
Did you?
haughty iron
They didn't want to invest that much into it
It didn't serve them financially
I said that IDEALLY it'd be the best way to do it
chrome path
Then why are you complaining if you understand reality?
Your words come off as confrontational
haughty iron
Saying what they should have done has nothing to do with what I expected them to do but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be mentioned or talked about
pure radish
blackjack and hookers
haughty iron
For example, I hope that Delta does a lot of stuff but what I expect is a 1:1 remake with basically zero enhancements in the level design department
digital turret
we need a steam update bot in this server
Like ping to say there is an update or scrape the update info?
chrome path
Again I say, humans complain in solutions.
pure radish
yeah
otherwise we get steam fibbing people
just a ping would be a start lol
i need to finish it up but yeah
haughty iron
The solution here would be for Konami to invest as much as SE invested into FFIX at least then
pure radish
i'll try and do that next
i started like a million different things at once so they all got a bit stuck in quicksand
well, iso builder now 🤣
i just finished up the game's debug menu and disabling the underpants / ghost pics patches
that's ready to go for next release
i had most of this stuff working as proof of concept but not really tidied up so
thats what i was doing most recently
chrome path
The solution here would be for Konami to invest as much as SE invested into FFIX...
You have nothing but "Solutions," "should'ves," "could'ves."
That's why people are annoyed when you talk. There's a narcissistic expectation behind almost every sentence.
I'm not cyberbullying you. You'd just be more likable if you had humility.
Sorry for drawing attention to it.
pure radish
it is a bit grating i can confirm
wdym? it's for applying the patches and then rebuilding an iso
there are other tools for extracting the isos
i thought about adding PPF support but theres almost no mods for this game in 20 years
pointless doing that work if there's no customer for it
can do whatever if its useful lol
red cradle
well at least you can test with the files that I dm you
pure radish
yeah, will still look at it
red cradle
If the tool is really useful, I'm sure modders will have interest start to modding the game
chrome path
Is that still the only stage? Just curious.
kindred chasm
blackjack and hookers
Forget the blackjack
digital turret
i started like a million different things at once so they all got a bit stuck in...
Good old development hell starter kit
hoary pier
Love how you keep subjectifying objective statements lol but ok
"Subjectifying objective statements" dude you're objectively a moronic douche based on how you present yourself in this server if I'm being honest
You talk like MGS1 has been fully reverse engineered by fans, but it hasn't. The fixes that exist for the PC port are, by the admission of the fans who worked on them, still not ideal and a lot of work had to be done to de-fuck what was wrong with the port, and even then there's still numerous unresolved issues that frankly could probably only be corrected by making a new port; if much of the source code wasn't available when the original PC port was made, there's no way they have enough to work with now.
MGS1 is also a very different game than FFIX so I don't see any validity in such a comparison. Square Enix already had other games on the same engine with much of the same code running natively on PC when they did that port, so they had a lot more to work with from the start and are a company that has actually been actively making games in recent years, unlike Konami. Making a new port at this point would have been a dumb decision on their part; the only thing I did they did wrong here was release it with such flawed emulation, but choosing to emulate it isn't itself a bad idea
cerulean bough
"Subjectifying objective statements" dude you're objectively a moronic douche ba...
"subjectifying objective statements"
This phrase did actual psychic damage to me
Like I wish they just werent a dick
red cradle
#general-chat message yeah, this is too much
cerulean bough
https://discord.com/channels/1116856754920226876/1116856755465494592/11846391732...
Granted I do feel like we kinda dogpilled on them too
But they at every step just kept being rude about their points
soft falcon
This is one of the least productive places to argue about it anyways
It's one thing to go on and on about what could have been and what the absolute "best" way of doing things is
But the people you're gonna see in this server are dedicated metal gear fans who have already probably made up their minds about a lot of it
It turned into him wanting to be seen as right more than anything else
pure radish
excuse me but my way of playing video games is the correct way
chrome path
It's time to talk about if Portable Ops is canon.
kindred chasm
If portable ops isn't canon, explain big boss. Is he canon
haughty iron
"Subjectifying objective statements" dude you're objectively a moronic douche ba...
Funny how you said that I don't read entire messages only for you not to read mine. What I already said was that it'd be ideal if Konami actually made it native on every platform. I never said that fans have fully reverse engineered MGS1. However it goes to show that if fans can go as far as they did, so can Konami. I also already stated the issues present in the GOG version which I'm fully aware of and which you probably didn't read either. I also said that other games did it and presented an example. You claim that FFIX ran on the same engine as other games "with much of the same code" doesn't mean Konami couldn't ideally go the extra mile of doing it properly. It's as if you really want to justify paying $20 for an emulated port that you could already emulate in much better ways externally. Oh and Konami not having made AAA games recently has nothing to do with the collection as they have released various smaller games even after Kojima left. That also has zero bearing on what they could have done ideally.
TLDR; this port is definitely not worth $20 no matter how you look at it
i just spent that on dinner
haughty iron
Actually if the "port" was in a state that this project currently is, a lot more fans would be happy. Because at least now, with this mod, the game does the bare minimum
pure radish
thanks for the endorsement that my mod meets your minimum expectations
haughty iron
You could already emulate the game perfectly and accurately on PC especially without the need to spend $20, unless you really have no other choice and you're on console
$20 is a lot to ask imo
pure radish
hopefully some day you will have mourned the loss of october's $20
hoary pier
Funny how you said that I don't read entire messages only for you not to read mi...
You're an idiot. I did read your messages in full. You changing the context of them now in a follow-up and trying to reframe what you said to be less stupid doesn't change what you said at the time. Write your own messages in full if you actually mean things that are different from what you're saying
haughty iron
You're an idiot. I did read your messages in full. You changing the context of t...
You clearly didn't because I've already covered pretty much all the points you have raised in your message
hoary pier
This isn't productive though, so I don't think we should carry on. If you want to be productive, never ever speak anything close to any messages you've ever sent in this server
pure radish
if he spent half as much time learning to mod the game instead of chinwagging
decomp would be done!
keen wharf
This argument has been going for a while and lots of points have already been stated but I do at least want to mention there is a difference in fans working on a passion project and corporations working on releasing a commercial product
pure radish
its not even an argument its just a guy trying to cope with the stages of grief over 20 bux
seek therapy instead
haughty iron
This isn't productive though, so I don't think we should carry on. If you want t...
Really funny, telling people what to talk or not talk about. But yeah, this conversation is over
hoary pier
I'm just saying, everyone else in here gets along with each other fine. Maybe the problem is you
Let's not flood this thread anymore
red cradle
damn I miss the simple time when we are talking about Johnny's ass...
haughty iron
There isn't much to talk about on that front
keen wharf
its not even an argument its just a guy trying to cope with the stages of grief ...
Should have bought it on GMG or Fanatical, whole collection for 46
pure radish
hes obviously being a bit disingenuous since he clearly bought the whole collection and not each game individually
haughty iron
We can go on and on about this but it doesn't change the fact that Konami's charging you $20 for this game in the state that it's in. If that's fine with you then there's nothing else to be said
pure radish
i mean i wouldn't have bought a 20 year old game for $20 unless it had the cure for cancer
good job that wasnt the only option
you keep starting this debate, every day, and you tell us about "going on and on"
what resolution do you want
yes absolutely spyros we all agree
only your opinion is valid and everyone else is wrong
haughty iron
You all agree with what?
pure radish
god knows
haughty iron
what resolution do you want
At this point, only for the game to get to a state where it offers at least the same options as the best emulators out there, which is already very hard to do
pure radish
then learn to use a hex editor, decompiler & disassembler, how to write C and use git, and stop chinwagging about what $20 gets you in todays economy
haughty iron
I won't talk about it more in this thread anyway. The convo was in the general thread which is fine to talk about. If you don't wish to participate, feel free not to do so
It's that simple
pure radish
its a bit difficult when you're sucking all of the oxygen out of every thread
i'll give you your $20 back if it makes you feel any better
telling an entire server to "not participate" instead of realising you're not adding much to the conversation is a bizarre lack of self-awareness
keen wharf
Video games
cerulean bough
its a bit difficult when you're sucking all of the oxygen out of every thread
Literally how I feel
Its hard to talk about the modding of this game when someone dedicating themselves to shitting on any positive topic
And the worst part of it, after theyve seen countless people telling them to cut the sht
THEY DOUBLE DOWN
Its like Kojima wanting everyone to know OD is gonna like PT
Just trying to furiously thrust it in our face
timid hemlock
i just finished up the game's debug menu and disabling the underpants / ghost pi...
Any news on blurring Johnny's ass?
Just to redirect the subject to something important ya know 🤞
pure radish
still looking into it but i need to focus on one thing at a time instead of trying to do 10 things at once
thats why shits so slow atm
i have everything in one state or another but things need finishing
so i'll sort the iso thing first
timid hemlock
so i'll sort the iso thing first
Awesome, you're doing gods work here, it's highly appreciated 🎖️
pure radish
maybe i'll set something up
dawn flare
If we can get stuff like native analog input without needing steam input shenanigans, and potentially patching item descriptions for integral
Like, I'm willing to toss a couple bucks to get something that's well rounded and can stand alone without needing additional mods (crt filters and whatnot)
Obviously that's not the priority at this time, but it's still progress
red cradle
oh yeah I remember some modding community accept mod request types that requester willing to pay
dawn flare
I don't know if I'm at the point where I'd be up for submitting mod bounties, but I see the work that's put in, and nuggs has put in a lot of time and effort in
pure radish
i've set this up https://ko-fi.com/nuggs
hopefully it works
link is on https://github.com/nuggslet/MGSM2Fix now
chrome path
are people in this thread actually trying to crowdfund spyro to piss off?
dawn flare
are people in this thread actually trying to crowdfund spyro to piss off?
I mean, somebody did...
dusty radish
wtf did i miss lol
chrome path
I dunno, I tried to be nice about it but my messages got ignored.
So, I think the guy is just drawn to conflict.
dusty radish
pure radish
lol
pretty crude way of finding the code region they chopped out
search the lz4a for the longest sequential run of FFs
roms/mgs_jp_disc1-20230407.lz4a [MGS1_JP->JAPAN]: 0x0008D308 + 0x10994
roms/mgs_us_disc1-20230407.lz4a [MGS1_US->USA]: 0x0008F094 + 0x10994
roms/mgs_en_disc1-20230407.lz4a [MGS1_UK->UK]: 0x0008D728 + 0x10C54
roms/mgs_de_disc1-20230407.lz4a [MGS1_DE->GERMANY]: 0x0008DBF4 + 0x10C54
roms/mgs_fr_disc1-20230407.lz4a [MGS1_FR->FRANCE]: 0x0008DCA0 + 0x10C54
roms/mgs_it_disc1-20230407.lz4a [MGS1_IT->ITALY]: 0x0008D788 + 0x10C54
roms/mgs_es_disc1-20230407.lz4a [MGS1_ES->SPAIN]: 0x0008D860 + 0x10C54
roms/mgs_integral_disc1-20230407.lz4a [INTEGRAL->INTEGRAL]: 0x0008C608 + 0x10CD4
roms/mgs_integral_disc3-20230407.lz4a [INTEGRAL->VR-DISK]: 0x0008A434 + 0x10BE4
roms/mgs_vrm-20230407.lz4a [VR-DISK_US->USA]: 0x0008F0E4 + 0x0ED14
roms/mgs_sm-20230408.lz4a [VR-DISK_EU->EUROPE]: 0x0008D3BC + 0x10CA4
lol they didn't "wash" the piracy screen from the ROMs
dawn flare
Classic
chrome path
I was surprised to learn America didn't have them. I find them quite nostalgic at this point.
A bit like these.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmcMCxHjYmw
pure radish
whoa.
what's up with the german ROMs?
this doesn't match the versions i've been sent over the last weeks
its like the game has been rebuilt
chrome path
Really?
pure radish
yeah, my script has flipped shit and pulled the wrong library data out
and turns out that's indicative of a real problem
chrome path
Perceptive.
pure radish
the german roms don't match anything
chrome path
There can only be one German ROM right?
chrome path
Did you accidentally do it on Disc 2
I dunno how the game handles Disc 2 saves.
Or whatever.
pure radish
don't think so but will check
pure radish
yeah, it claims to be SLES-01507 but doesn't match at all
chrome path
Maybe the one online has errors? PS1 discs had no error checking.
pure radish
loads of the disk is shifted though
chrome path
Shit.
pure radish
the patches I was sent are also indicative of the problem
everything else has a 300kb patch
german has a 4mb patch
pure radish
coz the patch is having to correct all this shifting carnage
like check this out
all of those strings are shifted in memory a little bit
where'd they get this german release
red cradle
I always imagine and wonder if there's a game company release a old game to current gen, and just grab a piracy one on the Internet with the emulator and hope no one find out, that would be hilarious lol
pure radish
maybe they decompiled it 
soft falcon
I always imagine and wonder if there's a game company release a old game to curr...
I remember some cases where they caught people doing it
Like wii virtual console had like, nes smb1 with a identifying tag in the rom
pure radish
what's worse to me is when they sell no cd cracked releases on steam
partially because i don't necessarily trust the no cd cracks
and if they didn't crack it themselves, how do they know what's in the thing they're selling
chrome path
I always imagine and wonder if there's a game company release a old game to curr...
Nintendo are infamous for this.
SONY genuinely have an in-house library of the finished code of every game they've ever licensed for PlayStation somehow, and that's frankly impressive. At least, they did before the HQ moved to California.
Microsoft, no idea.
hoary pier
this doesn't match the versions i've been sent over the last weeks
Yeah I've seen people saying German MC MGS1 has censorship that the original German release didn't have (it was uncensored before)
German vidya content guidelines have changed a lot over the last few years, so I doubt it was something they had to do for this release. It's probably a build they had ready in 1998 in case the game didn't pass certification and I think whoever put it in this collection didn't know it wasn't the right one
timid hemlock
German vidya content guidelines have changed a lot over the last few years, so I...
My money's on this, no way they've recompiled the game. Germany had pretty strict laws against violence in video games in the 90's. It wouldn't be out of the question that Konami built different versions with different kinds of censorship to make sure they had a version that was viable for release.
chrome path
lol they didn't "wash" the piracy screen from the ROMs
From MGS3 texture files
pure radish
well, the german conversion to iso will be interesting then
if it's even possible
i can give it a good stab, but there's a chance the libraries won't be compatible
we shall see
pure radish
nice
i can boot these images in other emus now
but unsurprisingly, not the german one
germany would need the libraries patched
everything but germany should work though lol
soft falcon
everything but germany should work though lol
Something tells me german players wouldn't think that version is ideal either lol
Even if it was exported
But congrats dude
pure radish
well, it'd be interesting for study purposes
but yeah
i think they'd want the original in MC rather than this one anywhere else
wonder where it actually came from
is it some secret disk from 20 years ago or did they build it just for MC
i'll get some stuff released before i go on a holiday break
so i've pushed the libraries that we have to https://github.com/nuggslet/MGSM2Libs
separate repo just in case they DMCA it lol (but it's really not their code, it belongs to the PSX SDK)
I called the german one "disk3" since it's not the correct disk
it should be possible to patch disk3 to make a working disk1
i'm hoping we can restore the original german version (and probably just call it disk3 like how integral works in MC)
dawn flare
In theory, couldn't you get a diff of the MC disk and the original, then distribute an xdelta patch? Then you're not distributing any actual MGS code
pure radish
that's already been done
but it's not really what i'm trying to achieve
for that exact reason we didn't notice the german issue until now lol
its kind of a jackhammer solution
being able to actually convert them is useful
dawn flare
Right, gotcha
pure radish
also can run their patches in other emus this way
dawn flare
Very true!
pure radish
wonder if
well
wonder if there's blur like this
there is
i don't think that tells us a whole lot, it's still either some filtering done at an emulation level or something my iso conversion process discarded from the ram image
wanton salmon
Can anyone tell me, Is it possible to change the internal resolution in this game? I'm wondering if I should start playing now or wait for a mod update that would change the resolution
chrome path
Not yet.
I don't think Nuggs has been working on that recently, either.
If it makes you feel better, the game looks beautiful at 240p.
kindred chasm
240p looks better on a smaller screen imo. But yeah, still a wip and low priority iirc.
chrome path
I call that a worthy sacrifice.
pure radish
anyone reckon i can get m2fix to compile on visual studio 6 on win98
if it compiles... i can use the steam deck for testing
kindred chasm
I wish i knew what that means
pure radish
lol im trying to get set up so i can do something useful and mgs related over xmas
otherwise im on a vacation where i can only provide emotional support
this 98 thing is my only laptop
🤣
its only a few days
i'll get some sorta update out tomorrow b4 i go
ngl its quite fun to constrain yourself into 20 year old tech
pure radish
we do a little testing
never actually made sure the ghost pics fix worked lol
too busy staring at johnny's ass
it works
chrome path
really strange some were changed at all.
pure radish
must just be permission
rather than malice
since they kept kojima
doesn't really strike me as unethical to restore them though, they consented to being in the original game that everyone has played for 20 years
chrome path
ah, that's adilemma I quite like.
the public moral right of preservation, or the individual moral right to disappear.
because.both are absolutely necessary.
pure radish
right to disappear usually doesn't extend to censorship of existing entertainment media
you can't have a change of heart 20 years later and then all copies of mgs1 are recalled to patch them
im gonna dump some extra crap in here that im not sure if it helps but
(an attempt to resolve the mouse cursor showing and similar stuff)
if it causes a crisis then i'll just revert it after xmas
heck why not change some compiler options too
might help evade windows defender lol
pure radish
pure radish
woulda been cool if u needed all of the photos for the achievement
pure radish
got these all set up on deck with the latest fixes.. might finally get round to playing some of em over xmas lol
humble ravine
got these all set up on deck with the latest fixes.. might finally get round to ...
Completed the MC on Deck. Definitely my favourite way to play
chrome path
you can't have a change of heart 20 years later and then all copies of mgs1 are ...
There's a practicality issue, yeah.
kindred chasm
got these all set up on deck with the latest fixes.. might finally get round to ...
Deck buddies?
red cradle
#1168512986491670548 message so for now Johnny's ass will be look like this?
pure radish
if you disable the patches in the ini
i didn't make that default lol
only the exorcism photos are changed by default
red cradle
yeah that's what I mean if you change the options, I just make sure so I can share that funny screenshot lol
pure radish
yeah, it'll look like that shot
red cradle
excellent 💯
pure radish
still tryna sort the blur
kindred chasm
Why not go the extra mile and add some details 
Wouldn't blur be harder since it's not texture based unlike boxers
pure radish
are you looking for evidence of poor wipe technique?
dusty radish
one step closer to the johnny goatse texture mod
wanton salmon
@pure radish Hi, do you have a roadmap for what you plan to do?
pure radish
not a roadmap as such, just some ideas of things to investigate
there's a bit more to do on patching / iso reconstruction / johnny blur etc
then i'll prob return to look at the emulator itself unless there's anything more pressing to do
finding the time to do it all is the problem lol
can't always pull 12 hour sessions 
if anyone's been reading the m2fix source over time tho you'll see tech being built up slowly that makes further work simpler to achieve
the newer stuff is generally a bit smarter in implementation than the original fixes lol
wanton salmon
@pure radish Do you think it is possible to change the internal resolution? And add widescreen hack? I think that most people are waiting for this to make this game the same as Duckstation version
pure radish
shrug
not really interested in answering hypotheticals like that lol
possible and someone committing the time to do it are different things
what is possible
those people will likely be waiting a very long time, I guess that's the most useful answer
for now you can just use duckstation, MC doesn't have to be duckstation
unclear if it's really a useful thing to invest lots of time into doing if the decomp is likely to complete
might be more useful to try and make the MC launcher act as a frontend for decomp
wanton salmon
@pure radish Thanks for clarifying
pure radish
really I'm just goofing off and seeing what comes of it
roadmaps require salaries 😂
I was sorta hoping we'd have someone else look at modding this in a serious way but nope just me I guess
chrome path
might be more useful to try and make the MC launcher act as a frontend for decom...
In a way that doesn't get the Konami Law Team in
pure radish
the decomp is more at risk of that than my nonsense is
ez. we make the decomp a separate DLL!
has anyone had the Windows Defender issue on v0.7?
I tried my best to lower the barrier with all the debug features 😔
but yeah, fair
virtual machines in general I guess
and we have two of em
pure radish
that's how we all start doe
need to be so hungry that you're a glutton for punishment
then suddenly u become god
chrome path
I kinda was, in another life.
pure radish
I failed at everything for 4 years
learned so much in the most brutal fashion
basically this
chrome path
Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God.
Nah I got a degree in programming, but then I fell deathly ill for a couple years and life kinda left me behind.
Watched plenty of Anime though.
Pretty much a VR kiddy, too.
pure radish
Nah I got a degree in programming, but then I fell deathly ill for a couple year...
can relate, nearly dropped out of my degree due to mental breakdown
went AWOL for years
that's when I got gud
spent loads of time reverse engineering in recovery
then went back and smashed the degree
quite unlikely turnaround from the state it was in lol
huge amount of luck involved really
chrome path
Yeah, you should be proud.
I couldn't really recover properly. I had to lie my way out of hospital to tend to a dying family member.
I mean I guess I can make excuses, but by the time I could get a job, there was a hole in my resume without any working experience in the field.
I could've tried harder. You did good.
timid hemlock
I couldn't really recover properly. I had to lie my way out of hospital to tend ...
Damn dude. Hope you're alright now
chrome path
I don't need pills and I can walk. That's good enough for anyone, I think.
Almost a decade ago now, anyway.
Is there any way to use patches to put some brown pixels around Johnny's crack.
pure radish
probably tbh! the patch is split into different pieces
I managed to make him split his pants
pure radish
I mean I guess I can make excuses, but by the time I could get a job, there was ...
yeah I twisted the truth when that was questioned
I quickly learned they wanted an explanation so I told them I was basically freelancing
had a lot of experience I could talk about and they bought it
I was MIA for about 3 years
cerulean bough
red cradle
https://www.konami.com/mg/mc/news/us/en/update_140 overall I like MGS1 got the update most people want
meager yacht
https://www.konami.com/mg/mc/news/us/en/update_140 overall I like MGS1 got the u...
Still no analog mode 😞
cerulean bough
Chaff nades still sound funky RIP
The hell is pixel perfect mode
Oh its the "non stretched" version
Similar to how you play MGS1 on PS3 via PSN version
dusty radish
Still no analog mode 😞
yeah but it's in the issues under investigation at the bottom
pure radish
glad that I can remove those options from m2fix tbh
not the best code I've written lol
m2fix still working, nice
quiet lodge
I really hope they fix the audio, that's not something in the "issues" section.
pure radish
I'd try and fix it if I could reproduce the issue
audio has been fine for me
if anyone has any idea what causes the audio problem I can look at it
maybe if m2fix solves it Konami will copy the fix 😛
formal sleet
Wow surprised they actually got to fixing/adding this stuff. MGS2/3 don't seem as hopeful though with adding stuff like custom res. No idea if the sound mix issue is still a thing.
pure radish
#modding-general on a normal one 🤣
dawn flare
<#1116870051992178688> on a normal one 🤣
But also, it's a fancy coffee, because it's 8am
dawn flare
I'm looking forward to that being fixed.
dawn flare
Yeah
Like, props to them for putting in the effort
Man, analog will be so nice
I might even need to play through it again
kindred chasm
This implies Konami didn't know analog stick doesn't work even though they themselves set up a solution to get around analog stick not working???
What the fuck are they smoking
dawn flare
Likely a case of "We didn't have enough time/resources to make it work"
kindred chasm
In that case, put it under investigation earlier
dawn flare
I'd be willing to bet they're down to like.. 5 guys in a garage
kindred chasm
This patch notes makes it sound like they had no clue what they were doing with the emulator lmao
dawn flare
I mean, it's all M2's stuff, so it makes sense
They have more insight than we do, but they're still working against someone elses' code
kindred chasm
Still, the patch notes made it sound like they weren't aware that analog stick wasn't functioning as an analog stick beforehand when they themselves set it up as a DPad.
hoary pier
This implies Konami didn't know analog stick doesn't work even though they thems...
Tbh I can see why it happened
Wait actually no I can't
For a second I misremembered and thought the Castlevania collection had Symphony of the Night. I was thinking if the emulator was reused from that I could see why the stick was mapped to the dpad since the analogue is functionally useless in SotN
But then I remembered it's not in that collection and this PS1 emulator is new lmao
kindred chasm
That bit is what triggers me the most about this patch. I'm not mad they're adding analog stick I'm mad they just now acknowledged the problem in a way that sounded like they were clueless
pure radish
I mean it's definitely true that the analog input doesn't work as intended
that known issue doesn't sound clueless to me
hoary pier
It could be as simple as whoever developed the emulator didn't realize MGS1 had proper support
Most PS1 games just used eight directions for the stick even if they did "support" it
dawn flare
"Hey M2, MGS1 has separate analog and dpad controls. Can you fix plx?" - Konami, probably
pure radish
2 me it seems they're watching and listening closely and sorting shit out... hard to be upset about any of it
dawn flare
Yeah. Just not fast enough for some. But also, it's a busy time of year
I'm just glad it sold well enough to get a patch
hoary pier
I'm annoyed that it was released in a half-baked state, but I appreciate and respect the team for continuing to improve it
The release date wasn't their fault after all
dawn flare
Yeah. It is what it is
chrome path
Most PS1 games just used eight directions for the stick even if they did "suppor...
Pretty much this. There's any possible number of reasons why it was overlooked, not the least because they sorted the 2D Bonus games first, or because nobody working on the project is as acutely in-tune with MGS1 as all of us.
I noticed it early and confirmed the suspicion as soon as I got off the elevator. People I know who've played it a handful of times needed it pointing out.
People might not also know that the input lag of the Dpad was always larger than the Stick, which probably augments the feeling of lag to many people.
I appreciate that they give enough of a shit to try and not let the Master Collection be another failure in the list of up-ports/"Remasters."
Nobody working at KONAMI wants to release a shit product. Even SurVive was a real, respectable effort.
timid hemlock
The hell is pixel perfect mode
Maybe integer scaling?
Wonder if the "Fixed some other minor issues " for mgs2 and 3 includes texture filtering and AA
No mention of Johnny's ass though, I'm kinda disappointed 😂
glad frost
An issue in which analog input does not work as intended
😮😮
I wonder if this is actually analog input itself, or some other minor issue?
Because it was under the MGS1 category so I'm hopeful it's the former
chrome path
It's a matter of fact statement.
The player's analogue input, does not work as intended.
So it can only really be the busted analogue support.
glad frost
True
chrome path
I don't know what other issue there is
glad frost
Wonderful news, I guess I was just sceptical as I had heard that they wouldn't be able to implement it even if they wanted to
But I guess not
chrome path
I think it's a front-end issue.
Anything is possible, so long as there is time and money.
glad frost
Even pressure sensitive buttons in mgs2 and 3? 😆
chrome path
I mean yeah, but...
Then you gotta ask, why would KONAMI pay for that in time and money.
Who other than five people in here owns a PS3 controller still
pure radish
yeah M2 definitely supports analog
they just didn't set it up for that
it'll be good to have a proper fix since we won't need steam input hacks
they'll just update the default config
kindred chasm
Maybe this time they'll make it a config people won't accidentally delete and softlock the game
Ignore reply i thought i took that off ;;
hoary pier
Tbh I don't really use the analogue stick in MGS1 anyway so the problem doesn't affect me, but it should still be fixed
I didn't realize it had proper analogue support when I first played it and now I'm so used to the dpad that it feels weird to use it
dawn flare
It makes snap shoooting really hard
glad frost
Yeah the analog hack is one I would really like the game to be rid of, it's clunky to have to implement for the user and also just such a basic feature
Interesting to read also about the controller input speed setting they mentioned.
glad frost
Just to clarify, M2 is the wrapper/emulator it runs on, to put it simply?
glad frost
I've seen the code for it
pure radish
yeah it's the framework and engine that MGS1 MC is built upon
so it includes more than just the emulator backend, it's a whole frontend scripting system etc etc
all the UI is built upon M2's framework
chrome path
I didn't realize it had proper analogue support when I first played it and now I...
Most walls are ordinally offset, too, so using an analoguestick just makes wall pressing a bit awkward.
I use a mix of both inputs, because I'm stupid.
glad frost
When the next patch hits, do you think there's anything else they realistically need to work on?
pure radish
if these audio issues are real (not had any myself) I would hope they start investigating that
hoary pier
I want the dithering back
cerulean bough
Yea the audio issues only affect REALLY small things like how Chaff nades sound or the codec scrolling
hoary pier
The game looks worse without it
pure radish
dithering is unlikely as no previous M2 game has had it as far as we know
so that is probably unimplemented
cerulean bough
I also defo want dithering back but Im honestly fine without it
hoary pier
Also I think the scanlines are offset wrong, aren't they?
chrome path
Is it emulated at 32 bit or 16 colour?
soft falcon
Is it emulated at 32 bit or 16 colour?
I didn't notice any color banding so probably 32 bit I guess
chrome path
I'm guessing that's why.
Dithering is used to make up for a lack of colour, but it's also used to create texture where there otherwise isn't any. I think it's a mistake for emulator-users to assume 32-bit solves an "Issue with the hardware."
chrome path
Also I think the scanlines are offset wrong, aren't they?
Screenshot plz
chrome path
I'm guessing that's why.
Dithering is used to make up for a lack of colour, but ...
The PS2 has 32 bit colour, and some games still dither.
This challenges the entire assumption.
soft falcon
The PS2 has 32 bit colour, and some games still dither.
They use dithering for other reasons than just color depth though I think
Like I think it saves on rendering resources or so?
Like I know it's commonly used on psp and a decent amount in ps2
"Dithering: Large RGBA values will need to be trimmed, so dithering can be applied to soften the loss of precision."
chrome path
I forget which line was dropped in the 240p.
I reckon it was odd lines that were dropped. Maybe they got the wrong one.
hoary pier
Someone in here posted a better example of it a while back but I can't be assed to find it
woeful flare
has anyone encountered any issues with the "fast" input setting, i haven't personally but i'm curious if the instability konami warned about was happening to anyone
chrome path
My expectation is that the errors you're likely to hear are audio-related.
They probably decreased the audiobuffer.
kindred chasm
Tried out fast input against Hind
I noticed far less input lag. I also don't feel any problems using it. Maybe it adds more weight to the emulator when active?
Overall game just felt nicer to control
woeful flare
i'm so glad they finally addressed it...
finite peak
Hey nuggs, you may need to look into updating the fix.
The update now lets you turn the scanlines on and off from the main menu but I don’t think it will let me from the HD fix
chrome path
Hey nuggs
Suggested "Fix"
In VR missions, there's gonna be a value in the data that goes from 2, to 3 during Game Overs.
And it's dividing the native 60 framerate by 3, instead of 2, during that.
You can speed up game overs and hasten the gameplay loop.
(But the game over sound will go out of sync)
finite peak
And now I see why some people had delay and some didn’t
Changing from stable to fast turns vsync off
So people without gsync or freesync or rather monitors that handle vsync poorly were getting delay
Makes sense
chrome path
Ohhhhh