Full retexture project going on there
#Modding the MGS1 emulator
finite peak
It’s pretty impressive
Replied to the wrong person, my brain went full boomer lol, but yeah you get it! Sometimes you have to do scanlines
haughty iron
Full retexture project going on there
By hand I assume
finite peak
By hand I assume
Yeah click on the link, check it out
haughty iron
Yeah just read it. That's exactly what I was looking for
Amazing
I have no faith in Delta from what I've seen so far lmao
finite peak
I have no faith in Delta from what I've seen so far lmao
Konami killed my faith in them being able to make a metal gear with Survive
haughty iron
It's Survive, it's pachinko, it's the collection now, and also how generic Delta looked in general
Delta looks just like a UE5 fan project
Honestly
finite peak
My problem is these games came with trigger warnings, whos ready for fat body positivity EVA?
finite peak
At the very least you and I know that’s going to be zipped up
Also the ending scene with the boss will be altered
haughty iron
I know but I'm still hoping they don't fuck it up
finite peak
But snake will still be able to pull his shirt off lol
haughty iron
Lol
kindred chasm
The Boss will be a 14 year old magical girl
haughty iron
finite peak
Who floats around with a magic wand and annoys you once every 5 minutes
kindred chasm
Remember the basics of CQC snake-dono
finite peak
“Do you wanna play with me Snake???? I can help with your grabs!”
“Notice me senpai!”
kindred chasm
But fr with the parasites and The Joy codename that's an angle they can totally pull. And that's funny to think about
haughty iron
TLDR Delta is most likely gonna fail sadly
finite peak
Now for some reason I’m picturing snake trying to kill her with the Cigar like a leech lol
haughty iron
So it's projects like these that will save this franchise
kindred chasm
I doubt it will tbh, the name will carry it. Which is probably their reasoning why they released the MC in this state
haughty iron
It'll probably sell alright because of the name but it's us longtime fans who truly know if it will have failed or not
Because we are the ones who care the most
Konami has shown they don't really care
Because if they did, the MC would have gotten released in a fantastic state
MGS1 is actually the worst offender here
finite peak
I don’t care what Konami does anymore, they gave us all the tools we need, I just want a PC port of portable ops and MGS4
haughty iron
They're asking you to pay $20 for a vastly inferior "port" (emulated ROM) compared to the ones that are basically available for free
That's insane to me
finite peak
That’s the entire collection lol
If it wasn’t for the modding the other 2 games would be worse than pcsx2 in every way
haughty iron
I don’t care what Konami does anymore, they gave us all the tools we need, I jus...
That is gonna happen but we all know they'll be bad ports. They couldn't even do the easy ones like MGS3 lmao
finite peak
I don’t care, I’m working on porting MGO to VR now
Konami can do whatever silly thing they want
haughty iron
If it wasn’t for the modding the other 2 games would be worse than pcsx2 in ever...
Yeah I guess but still MGS1 is the most baffling case
finite peak
Also working on remaking MGR
haughty iron
Very cool
finite peak
And I already “ported” twin snakes
Have a pre configured dolphin file, just haven’t publicly released it yet
Had to do a custom controller script to make it work like mgs2 lol
haughty iron
Oh you mean like plug and play?
finite peak
yeah
kindred chasm
I don’t care, I’m working on porting MGO to VR now
Explain? 
finite peak
Explain? <:mgnLove:1128236748678369302>
Mind ya business lol
Naw really though, it’s very early, I’ll tell more once I have a bit more figured out
I’m using MGO arcade as the base for it since it’s practically made for it
But figuring out how spice works has been….interesting, I’ll just say that
Luckily MGO arcade practically already has everything I need and most of the maps so if I can get it functional it should be fully playable soon
Only problem is I haven’t figured out how the networking actually functions on it
kindred chasm
Does it even have networking? Arcade I mean. I thought it was LAN
finite peak
Naw, it definitely has built in online
Using hamachi for the LAN connection is possible as well though
Anyway, don’t want to derail the thread with all that
That’s for another thread and another time in the future
finite peak
I modded the 1998 music into TTS
I like Twin Snakes and the original equally for different reasons
I know that’s a very controversial thing to say in the general metal gear populace though
haughty iron
Yeah it is lol
I don't hate TTS but imo it's a bad remake
Not a proper way to remake MGS1
Anyway that's off topic again
finite peak
I am curious though, if you managed to get the music from mgs1 into twin snakes, would it makes me wonder if it would be possible to get the voiceovers in there as well
Even though the twin snakes voiceovers are better overall I think it might be worth maybe swapping the codec voices
I dunno though, not having to deal with the dumb accents is enough to make me want to stick with twin snakes lol
This is giving me a lot of ideas though
I’m going to have to think about that some now that I know its possible
finite peak
It’s just that you got me thinking, theres one thing I would actually love to add to the original mgs from twin snakes
The one thing they did that is objectively better is giving each boss their own theme
soft falcon
I am curious though, if you managed to get the music from mgs1 into twin snakes,...
I think some people did it before
finite peak
I would love to have each bosses theme music from twin snakes in mgs1
finite peak
I was about to say…..
Granted if you can swap sound files, in theory it wouldn’t be THAT difficult but the problem is timings
Anyway just info for the back burner, not sure if that would be worth the time and effort or not
have too many other projects I’m working on atm and trying to pass a test to promote at work as well
haughty iron
This project here seems to be far more important tbh
haughty iron
@finite peak could you guys please add just 1 option for a CRT shader that requires HDR? It would mean the world to me because I'm itching to try out one of them on MGS1 (outside of RetroArch itself, that is)
Or at least tell me how to add one to MGS1 MC
finite peak
<@334543972179378176> could you guys please add just 1 option for a CRT shader t...
I might consider it, I’ll look into after work
haughty iron
Thank you so much
finite peak
But those shaders are usually pretty intense, I hope you have a good video card
haughty iron
I mean if it's easy you could drop a tutorial on how to add it and I'll follow it
Yes I have a 4070Ti
finite peak
OK cool
finite peak
Oh Jeebus, this death to pixels lol
Yeah, these are good, but there’s a reason I didn’t use them as a preset lol
I can do it though, it’s not hard
chrome path
MGS1's analogue stick is just more responsive than the dpad. That might be why people feel the issue is mitigated.
haughty iron
I can do it though, it’s not hard
Awesome thanks, I'll try it out on Tuesday probably when my new OLED arrives. What preset do you think is the best for MGS1 out of those?
pure radish
now that's what i'm talking about
they have some custom squirrel "Struct" object, which is honestly really well designed
this hook surrounds the asset load into that object, so can replace fields in the struct / replace it entirely / whatever
but the hook is pure squirrel, no patching
lots of options for layering asset changes here, need to work out the best thing to do
another option would be to allow the game to read unpacked files instead of using the alldata PSB
but
i don't like the idea of making people unpack the entire game to apply mods, seems very messy
some sorta system where you override certain structures / specific files seems best
haughty iron
Remember that most users just want to double click on an icon and play, or at least play whatever version with whatever controller they got (correct icons) through the launcher
Me personally I don't mind all that much but prob most people do
pure radish
agreed
haughty iron
agreed
Does your mod remember which button icons the user has chosen to use?
PS5, Xbox, whatever?
Because normally you have to set that up every single fucking time
pure radish
really? it should be getting saved
mod doesn't do anything to address it (yet)
but i'm pretty sure they try to save that
that might be something they fix themselves if it is broken
most of the things we've fixed so far are things they definitely won't
keen wharf
I don't think the prompts manually selected are saved in any of the games
but for MGS1 there is auto detection
MGS1 and bonus content
I just get the prompts depending on what controller I have connected, regardless of what I've previously selected
keen wharf
yeah, seems so
pure radish
maybe the mod can add an option to set a default override, then
but i don't want to break the autodetection
keen wharf
in the rest of the games, the auto detection doesn't work so I just get xbox prompts by default regardless of what I have connected
I use a launch parameter to force PS prompts for those
oh MGSHDfix actually has an option for prompts
pure radish
they have no choice
the launcher is separate and tells the game these settings
whereas with mgs1 the launcher is combined
that's why I didn't add these options - the game seemed to boot up with the last saved configuration, which seemed ideal
our "launcher skip" simply pretends to be a ps5 starting the game directly from the ps5 home menu
they could've added that as a steam launch mode
but lazy i guess
ps5 lets you jump back into specific levels of a game via "intents"
they used it for mgs1 to let you start the game directly, or the books
https://github.com/nuggslet/MGSM2Fix/blob/master/src/dllmain.cpp#L394 this is the function responsible for it
haughty iron
really? it should be getting saved
No, it reverts back to Xbox button icons
That's for every game on the MC
You have to keep setting it to PS5 for example (I am using a DualSense)
I am 100% certain on this because that's what I have to keep doing
pure radish
that isnt happening for me with a dualsense
haughty iron
Are you talking about 2 and 3?
pure radish
no, mgs1
it always has dualsense buttons for me
(even when I don't have it plugged in)
do you have extra devices connected that are confusing it
kindred chasm
MGS1 is the only game in the entire collection where icons doesn't reset
haughty iron
it always has dualsense buttons for me
Actually you are correct. However it does not save any other button icon types
No, actually for me they DO reset, but they default to PS5
MGS2 and 3 default to Xbox
pure radish
keen wharf
They default to what controller you have connected
pure radish
does anybody know for sure?!
keen wharf
and it seems this only works for MGS1 and Bonus Content
kindred chasm
I have a deck I'll try it myself
haughty iron
I don't have an Xbox controller
pure radish
M2 clearly superior to unity
haughty iron
I cannot test if they'd change if I used one
However I can confirm that MGS2 and MGS3 default to Xbox
100000%
pure radish
but the setting overrides it (for that session)?
haughty iron
MGS1 defaults to PS5 icons for me, but I don't know if this is because it has a similar issue as the others, or if it detects your controller
Yes
For that session
pure radish
alright, so maybe what we do here is add an option to set the override at startup
and if not set it just does the magic default to what you're using
haughty iron
I still think there is some merit to not defaulting to what you're using because maybe someone wants different icons that they're more used to or something
But even defaulting to what you're using is fine
(for most people)
keen wharf
but the setting overrides it (for that session)?
actually here is something funny
haughty iron
Usually games let you pick an option and they save that option
keen wharf
it switches to the controller you have connected the moment you press the button on it
so I switch to Xbox prompts
I get XBOX prompts then I press a button on the dualsense and it goes back to PS5 prompts
pure radish
wtf is going on
haughty iron
Let me test
keen wharf
I'll check with all controllers for curiosity sake lol. I do have xbox and switch controller as well I'm kind of curious now
haughty iron
I just got this message show up
It never showed up before
Let's see what'll happen
(MGS1)
kindred chasm
Tf
keen wharf
pure radish
because steam is always translating for this game
keen wharf
i used the keyboard to change prompts
then pressed the dualsense and you can see it goes back to ps prompts
pure radish
so the option is for keyboard prompts?
kindred chasm
No
pure radish
wtf
kindred chasm
The option is for all controllera
pure radish
can anybody explain this in plain english
kindred chasm
It just resets if you touch a button on a different controller
keen wharf
behaves the same with Switch controller. It changes automatically to Switch prompts the moment I press a button on it
pure radish
you can override anything as long as you don't touch another controller
so what we want is a way to freeze it in the ini
haughty iron
Yes
For me, the message actually meant nothing. It still defaulted to PS5 prompts
So weird
pure radish
that message makes no sense
haughty iron
Yeah
pure radish
the game uses steam input game actions
kindred chasm
The launch skip achieves the frozen state because it stays the same midgame
pure radish
steam is always remapping
haughty iron
It actually NEVER showed up before. It showed up literally just now for the first time
pure radish
The launch skip achieves the frozen state because it stays the same midgame
ah, nice
keen wharf
it's a funny update from Steam
by default with Dualsense compatible games there is more compatibility if the controller is plugged in rather than connected wirelessly
kindred chasm
So if nuggs puts in ctrltype with launch skip we should be good? Idk
keen wharf
but for MGS1 it doesn't make much of a difference
it's mainly for stuff like haptic feedback or impulse triggers for games that support it
most of the time those only work wired
kindred chasm
Now you can hear snake's death cry from your controller speaker
pure radish
!
kindred chasm
Thats a joke it's not a thing
pure radish
i meant that ! should play through the speaker
haughty iron
Uhh
For me it doesn't revert to PS5 buttons
Look
It's like this at first
Then I set it to Xbox
It stays Xbox
I'm still using the DualSense and I do NOT own an Xbox controller
If I close the game and boot it back up, it defaults back to PS5
Probably because it detects the DualSense
keen wharf
I can't even change the prompts if I'm navigating with the controller
pure radish
soft falcon
<@334543972179378176> could you guys please add just 1 option for a CRT shader t...
Aren't there reshade crt filters?
red cradle
Schrödinger's controller prompts
keen wharf
That's not what happens on mine
lol
sure is an interesting game
the auto detection just works too well on my end
it doesn't auto change to keyboard prompts when I use the keyboard though
that one I have to manually change and it stays the option I selected as long as I only use the keyboard
maybe it has something to do with steam input settings?
honestly would have preferred the option of PS1 prompts over all these
pure radish
good job we can disable the patches for them
when I booted up with no patches it was of course PS1 prompts
haughty iron
Aren't there reshade crt filters?
Not these specific ones that require HDR
Here's how mine behaves @keen wharf
woeful flare
Does your mod remember which button icons the user has chosen to use?
weirdly it IS saved for me for MGS1
always was, without mods
just not for 2/3 for me at least
haughty iron
haughty iron
I didn't change anything
That was what Steam has chosen
I don't understand why Konami made this so complicated. They should detect your controller and default to it sure, but then your settings should override that and stay saved like this
Unless you use a keyboard, which should get detected on the fly, and your icons should change to keyboard prompts
It's like this in pretty much every modern game
keen wharf
this so strange lol. So I guess for some it only detects at boot up while for others at the press of the button?
I don't even know what the intended effect is supposed to be lol
haughty iron
Exactly
keen wharf
I know controller detection in games is not always reliable
like I've known people who confirmed to me a game didn't detect their PS controllers and got xbox prompts but for me it worked
haughty iron
I'd treat it like this:
Controllers are "category 1" and kbm is "category 2". It defaults to whatever controller you're using, unless you change your icons from the options, then it stays like that, unless you switch to kbm
keen wharf
and there wasn't much difference in our set ups
haughty iron
There is definitely some fuckery going on
MGS2 and 3 just default to Xbox, but at least they get saved for every session
keen wharf
and you can always force the prompts you want with a launch parameter
soft falcon
when I booted up with no patches it was of course PS1 prompts
How decypherable is the patch data btw?
pure radish
it varies
the ones with names or are controller-specific are obviously easy to identify
but there are lots that are just a list of bytes and offsets
still possible to work out what they do, especially if you work out where they'd apply against the decomp
but needs someone with some intimate knowledge of the internals of the game itself
the decomp is probably the best source of information, since it generates a matching rom
apply the set for the same game version and it should reveal some things
i wonder if anyone tried to decomp the gog pc version
quiet lodge
Is there a way to use Metal Gear Solid HD without the reshade and CRT filter?
woeful flare
^^
woeful flare
ok tbh i haven’t used the “mod” yet so i don’t know how all that works myself
is it an exe replacement? i thought i saw discussions of that before
pure radish
no, its a dll
woeful flare
ooh i see
quiet lodge
Yeah I didn't use the mod yet either, I just wasn't sure if using reshade and the CRT filter was mandatory
pure radish
nah, by default it just skips the warnings / notices and disables the builtin smoothing
ruby hill
Even on the US ISO in the Master Collection, he’s wearing underwear instead of pixelation.
haughty iron
Even on the US ISO in the Master Collection, he’s wearing underwear instead of p...
No
That's incorrect
ruby hill
Yeah I could have worded it better
pure radish
isnt he wearing underwear in every MC version
haughty iron
Also, what about the blood?
timid hemlock
Original PSX versions: All versions of the game had naked blurred Johnny, except JP versions (including Integral and integral PC), which had him in grey underpants.
MC: all versions of the game has him in brown underpants.
haughty iron
Is it censored everywhere?
timid hemlock
No versions had censored blood, to my knowledge.
haughty iron
Original PSX versions: All versions of the game had naked blurred Johnny, except...
Yes, and this is wrong art preservation
timid hemlock
But the MC german version is censored now I think
pure radish
they probably had no choice with the german one
haughty iron
But the MC german version is censored now I think
The reddit post I posted yesterday showed that the MC German version (at least) has a blood censorship issue
timid hemlock
The reddit post I posted yesterday showed that the MC German version (at least) ...
Exactly. It's really weird, because the old version was not censored
haughty iron
I don't understand why
timid hemlock
Maybe they did it preemptively, to avoid censoring issues, as Germany has censored games in the past, demanding green blood in some games, and no blood in others. But that was way back in the 90's, I think Germany is fine with blood in video games now
You can read about Germany's censorship of Half-Life here, for example: https://combineoverwiki.net/wiki/Censored_versions_of_Half-Life
It's actually kinda funny lol, they replaced the grunts with robots
pure radish
the item text patch looks like its just one big patch
odd they didnt do it for integral
dawn flare
the item text patch looks like its just one big patch
Oh that's nice..I wonder if you can just... Apply it to integral
timid hemlock
Man, I can't wait to see what's possible with patches!
finite peak
Are we back to talking about Johnnys ass?
haughty iron
Yes
pure radish
woeful flare
Is there a way to use Metal Gear Solid HD without the reshade and CRT filter?
i wanna go back to this
pure radish
wut
finite peak
Is there a way to use Metal Gear Solid HD without the reshade and CRT filter?
Just hit the O key to turn it off
pure radish
oh is this your doing
finite peak
oh is this your doing
Nexus mod comes with a CRT filter I made but I put in the readme to hit the O key.
pure radish
ah
finite peak
Silly me, I thought people didn’t want the colors drained and the pixelation to look like a smudge
pure radish
i mean it doesnt look like a smudge with the bilinear filtering off
the opposite of smudge
finite peak
Yes it does
Hard pixels look like ass
I can’t stand it
I mean, just look at that
pure radish
maybe m2fix needs a separate listing in nexus to avoid confusion
finite peak
maybe m2fix needs a separate listing in nexus to avoid confusion
It’s one key press!
pure radish
kinda hard to tell because the 2nd one is not how it looks for me
that img looks heavily compressed it looks like the bilinear filter is actually on
sure but we're gonna get people thinking m2fix has a crt filter which is irritating
finite peak
With it off it looks even worse…..
pure radish
not sure i agree there
finite peak
pure radish
the bilinear thing makes it look like i've blown up a jpeg
finite peak
Do you really mean to tell me that hard pixels look better?
finite peak
You think 1 looks better than the other 3?
pure radish
in that example yeah because 2 3 4 are not good filters lol
im not anti-filter, i play around with em a bit, but
pure radish
maybe a bad example? i mean 2/3/4 look the same and it just looks like they've removed half of the horizontal lines
some of the better reshade crt effects are alright now and then
if all you've done is delete information from the picture like the built-in scanlines do
finite peak
Those are actual CRTs. And one is s video, the other composite, and then component
pure radish
rofl
finite peak
This was to demonstrate the differences between NTSC phase 1, phase 2, and phase 3
pure radish
i mean the game has jaggies bro
its a psx game
it has no floating point
it has no subpixel
pure radish
sure but then why not bump the internal res to your desktop res
that would seem to be more to your liking
finite peak
And make it even worse?
pure radish
WOT
finite peak
No thanks
pure radish
i mean if you bump the native res the subpixel issues go away
as there's more of them
finite peak
The more you upscale pixels they just look more pixelated
finite peak
And it just gets worse and worse
pure radish
at the moment we have that situation
if you bump the internal res, the GTE is rendering geometry at that res
finite peak
No, no it’s not
soft falcon
You think 1 looks better than the other 3?
Well you're not gonna be staring at pixels that close up either way. I like the sharp look too
It has its charm
pure radish
what we currently have is a 240p image being upscaled with very blocky pixels
finite peak
You can upscale polygons, you can’t upscale pixels
pure radish
with or without a bilinear filter or crt filter
of course! that's what an internal res bump is
it upscales polygons
finite peak
Upscale pixels just look worse and worse
pure radish
at the moment it is upscaling pixels
pure radish
wot on earth are u talking about m8
finite peak
So the more you upscale the worse it looks
pure radish
i mean this isn't even an argument of preference
its an argument about what things mean
finite peak
Either way, upscaling just makes every 2d element look worse
pure radish
i would not describe upscaling pixels as an "internal res boost"
for it to be internal it has to effect the... rendering
what you seem to be saying is
if the internal res was patched it would look no different
finite peak
pure radish
obv boosting internal res reduces "hard pixels"
heres the pc port running at native res
obviously that has less hard pixels than 240p upscaled to native res without any filtering
like that is a fact right
finite peak
Yeah it looks like dog shit
pure radish
do we at least agree on simple definition of terms though
finite peak
Whats your point?
pure radish
right, so it has reduced the hard pixels
finite peak
Nope
pure radish
you don't like hard pixels
finite peak
Just the polys
pure radish
WHAT
finite peak
All those 2d textures look worse
pure radish
ok ur on a different planet
finite peak
Just smoother polys
pure radish
isnt that exactly what less hard pixels means
finite peak
Nope
pure radish
then what does it mean?!
soft falcon
This kinda feels like you're both arguing past each other
But ye I guess when we have more options including possibly a render res bump people can adjust it to their liking.
pure radish
🤣
i think either 240p without the builtin smoothing or this native res pc screenshot look better than 240p with the builtin smoothing
the builtin smoothing is just bad
give me the crisp 240p picture, don't massacre it
vaseline over the screen
soft falcon
the builtin smoothing is just bad
That's probably something everyone can agree on
Lol
keen wharf
bilinear filtering sucks for these old games lol
pure radish
exactly
that's why we started modding this thing to begin with
and now we have someone saying it's better with it on?!?!?!
keen wharf
wasn't the point about crt shaders and such?
pure radish
well i then asked about the bilinear filter and he said that was better too!
keen wharf
Old games were kind of made with CRTs in mind but bilinear filtering definitely doesn't give that look
Although it does resemble RF from old consoles
which doesn't look that good honestly
finite peak
I mean, the original image is better with it on
pure radish
rubbish
finite peak
Obviously with a good CRT filter, that’s not the case
pure radish
im indifferent if people wanna add CRT filters
soft falcon
I mean, the original image is better with it on
I guess you're konami's target audience
pure radish
but the builtin smoothing is just bad
soft falcon
pure radish
and removing that is always an improvement
keen wharf
Most CRT filters actually sharpen up the image compared to the game's bilinear filter
finite peak
Well obviously it’s bad
I’m just saying if those were my only two choices I would leave it on
pure radish
i would not and that fact is the only reason we have the mod!
finite peak
I mean thats good cuz it makes the filters look better
But you’re on your own with those hard pixels
keen wharf
PS1 is no N64, so yeah, I'd prefer sharpness for MGS1 lol
tribal acorn
“Hard” pixels look worse in 2d games, but better in 3d games
pure radish
we've got all these videos including IGN extolling the virtues of turning it off, definitely not on my own m8
yeah for 2D you might have an argument
finite peak
Yeah you are, CRT filters the way to go
pure radish
🤣 this guy
finite peak
Does anyone have updated photos of the filter after that was removed? I’m in bed and don’t wanna get up lol
pure radish
blurring it all kind of runs antithetical to that
finite peak
I also added the psx dithering
I’ll update all this eventually
Either way if there is no filter it looks like garbage but yeah I’m glad the bilinear is gone now
pure radish
you might not like it but its obviously better than the bilinear smoothing
it's at least what the game is putting out
finite peak
I wouldn’t go that far, the game was meant to put out on cathode colors
Hard pixels drain the colors and kill the quality
pure radish
i mean that is just up to your equipment though
pure radish
this is objectively the signal from the psx
finite peak
I just can’t play without one cuz after seeing it on the real deal I can’t go back to hard pixels
pure radish
^ that is part of my grievance with them
tribal acorn
So it’s the same really
finite peak
Crt filters dont look like a real crt
Thats objectively false
tribal acorn
Buy a real crt if you’re so picky
tribal acorn
Thats objectively false
What
finite peak
Oleds with HDR produce more color and higher nits than what was possible on a CRT
timid hemlock
Some are getting close, but yeah, if you have the space for it, buy an old CRT TV
tribal acorn
A simulation of the real thing is still a simulation
soft falcon
CRTs are overrated tbh. They're fine for old games with no hassle but I've fiddled with both a fair bit and I don't think it's that radical of a difference.
tribal acorn
Play on a crt and you’ll realize
finite peak
I have a filter that looks better than a CRT on retroarch
tribal acorn
No comparison
soft falcon
Especially if you use a high quality signal like rgb or component
tribal acorn
Filter looks like a filter
finite peak
Dude I have 4 CRT tvs
tribal acorn
And you play with a filter?
finite peak
All with component
tribal acorn
Why dont you play on those
timid hemlock
CRT Royale is ok with me, but requires a lot of tweaking, depending on resolution and scaling. It's close enough for me so far.
soft falcon
When games look good they look good and I'm not too picky about how they're presented as long as it doesn't have some obvious crippling fault
timid hemlock
You can run reshade filters natively on Duckstation now
finite peak
Yeah but retroarch is the only way you can get filter superior to a CRT
tribal acorn
You rn
pure radish
mr default is The One
finite peak
Cuz of things like native HDR support
keen wharf
No dithering
dithering is missing from Master Collection cause they actually removed it. If you emulate it on duckstation you'll see there is dithering without any filter applied
finite peak
dithering is missing from Master Collection cause they actually removed it. If y...
Dont remind me, it hurts lol
pure radish
do the other M2 psx titles have dithering?
timid hemlock
Dithering is turned of at emulator level I think.
soft falcon
dithering is missing from Master Collection cause they actually removed it. If y...
MGS1 had too aggressive dithering so it doesn't really bother me
finite peak
Yeah dithering is hardware on psx
timid hemlock
Haven't seen mention of it in patches
finite peak
So the emulator has to emulate it, in fact heres a fun thing
I’ll bet you didn’t know this
keen wharf
do the other M2 psx titles have dithering?
The Mega Man games don't have them originally either
pure radish
ah shite
finite peak
How about none of the emulators do psx dithering right except for one
keen wharf
there is some but only on sprite level, it's not like MGS or Silent Hill where it's applied on the whole screen
finite peak
Xebra
Xebra is literally the only psx emulator that is 100% accurate
And the difference is kind of astounding
like to the point I actually think duckstation/swanstation purposefully toned it down cuz its a bit harsh
soft falcon
You can patch CDs to turn off hardware dithering on a real ps1 btw
Many games it works just fine while others like silent hill have color banding
finite peak
You can patch CDs to turn off hardware dithering on a real ps1 btw
Get out!
We don’t want you here
Lol
tribal acorn
Few people know this but if you run an MGS1 rom through Xebra through a crt filter through an OLED screen, it’s actually more real than a psx on a crt
It breaks reality and it’s hyper real
Most accurate way
pure radish
its so real it's a VR simulation of shadow moses
finite peak
Few people know this but if you run an MGS1 rom through Xebra through a crt filt...
Not even close to what I said but cool
No, so real……it’s like all of your triumphs are just part of the s3 plan!
tribal acorn
True, it shouldnt be a psx rom. It should be a recompiled rom from the master collection with dither readded
finite peak
It’s not important that you, Raiden, were able to complete it, it’s the fact that we were able to trigger and control it
timid hemlock
The Mega Man games don't have them originally either
I seem to remember the megaman games not being dithered on orginal hardware either...At least Mega Man Legends
finite peak
Your victories, defeats, and losses, were only by-products to create us
The very will and morality you people spout every day!
timid hemlock
I'm kinda scared that the M2 emu doesn't support dithering, because it was built to emulate games that didn't use dithering in the first place.
pure radish
i can't prove it either way yet, still learning stuff
keen wharf
I seem to remember the megaman games not being dithered on orginal hardware eith...
Mega Man Legends does have some, one I do remember is the effect when the screen goes to dark.
timid hemlock
Mega Man Legends does have some, one I do remember is the effect when the screen...
You are correct, the fades were dithered
kindred chasm
What is dithering for someone dumb about emu
finite peak
What is dithering for someone dumb about emu
Essentially it’s a “false” color trick to make it seem like there are more colors in the pallete than there actually ate
Are*
pure radish
u basically just add a certain pattern of noise to the image
kindred chasm
Something like HDR?
soft falcon
What is dithering for someone dumb about emu
It was a technique used to save on memory by having like a grid pattern over the screen which makes it so you don't have to have as many between colors. If you had a blurry signal like composite it wasn't easy to notice
finite peak
timid hemlock
Here's a good video about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi-Wzl6BwRM
keen wharf
yeah dithering goes beyond than just old games lol
it's also used for audio
and modern monitors use dithering as well for higher colour depth or at least the perception of it
timid hemlock
it's also used for audio
Yes, to reduce bit conversion artifacts during mastering and stuff. Pretty neat.
keen wharf
the purpose of it for images is mainly to reduce colour banding in images limited in colour
it actually gives more detail
timid hemlock
I just found some footage of the mega man legends pc port. The fades do not have dithering there... But it's the old port from 2001, don't think its relevant
keen wharf
yeah, I don't think the port has that but pretty sure the PS1 version still does
found a longplay video
finite peak
yeah, I don't think the port has that but pretty sure the PS1 version still does
It does, I played that one just a month ago on the crt
Well it was legends 2 but still
I know both of them use it
I’m glad they never did another one, legends 2 was amazing and another one would just ruin the ending
480i>240p change my mind
timid hemlock
Did m2 do any PSX conversions besides castlevania sotn? Because that one does not use dithering
...on original hardware or pc
keen wharf
Did m2 do any PSX conversions besides castlevania sotn? Because that one does no...
Mega Man X Legacy Collection
I guess it's only 2 games there though
timid hemlock
They also did Legend of Mana, but it's also not using dithering on original hardware
pure radish
jesus the dithering in MGS is... intense
keen wharf
Isn't that one a remaster?
timid hemlock
jesus the dithering in MGS is... intense
Haha yesss... I've come to love it ❤️ 😅
timid hemlock
Isn't that one a remaster?
Yes, but the original also didn't use dithering. Also it's probably a proper port, not emulation
keen wharf
jesus the dithering in MGS is... intense
it's beautiful
timid hemlock
For me, dithering in mgs1 is essential. It adds so much detail. 2x res and full dithering is the best. In duckstation you also have the option to scale dithering to resolution, which basically only works well in 2x res. But I always default to full dithering, it just does something to image, kinda ups the contrast and saturation a bit too.
I run 2x res, full dithering and CRT royale. So far that's the best solution for me, personally.
keen wharf
I like PS1 games at their original resolution but yeah dithering is essential for them at least for the games that do use it
finite peak
nocash disagrees with you
I never heard of her
pure radish
the guy is responsible for most of the hw documentation lol
you even linked his stuff when we were looking at analog
🤣
finite peak
pure radish
https://problemkaputt.de/psx-spx.htm look at this enormous page
console reversing legend
finite peak
I know I’m just giving you a hard time lol
pure radish
this page is why we have analog now tbh
timid hemlock
@pure radish perhaps this part is useful? He's talking about how to switch dithering on/off in the rendering pipeline in most emulators: https://youtu.be/bi-Wzl6BwRM?si=e_Q2KiG8H0y96pZX&t=393
at 6.33
..or maybe not, I don't know this stuff too well
pure radish
yeah you can get the same info on that page
its "just" a case of reversing all the relevant code in the executable lol
i've found bits of it already
timid hemlock
Cool!
pure radish
it's C++, so vtables make it a bit nastier to reverse than i'd ideally like but still doable with time
there's also the fact that there were two slightly different gpu revisions over the psx life
with visible differences
so preconceived notions of what the psx looks like might depend on that too
cerulean bough
MGS1 with its dithering AND the hard pixels (no bilinear vaseline smear) is peak aesthetic
sick osprey
I'd say that CRTs 100% aid the effect that dithering gives and blends it almost perfectly.
I would prefer the game with dithering even if I didn't have a CRT or any filters though.
red cradle
My preference is hard pixels too, it really have that PS1 game genre feels, that's why these modern PS1 style horror games is so good
https://hauntedps1.itch.io/demodisc2021
ruby hill
Yeah, CRT filter just makes everything look blurry. Not a fan.
kindred chasm
I dig the dot net matrix but the color turns me off
haughty iron
MGS1 with its dithering AND the hard pixels (no bilinear vaseline smear) is peak...
I prefer 9x res, real colors, nearest neighbor filtering, and downsampling for the 2D elements tbh
And more importantly, PGXP
cerulean bough
Oh I defo vibe with the cleaned up look as well
pure radish
anything but the bilinear smoothing for me
cerulean bough
Theres just that nostalgia factor of having it look all hard pixels at OG res
Helps hide the games age in a funky way
While also reinforcing its age LOL
pure radish
yeah just accept it lmao
cerulean bough
anything but the bilinear smoothing for me
Ugh I hate bilinear smoothing too
Both as a visual filter over the image
And when applied individually to textures
haughty iron
Bilinear is basically the go-to method for lazy devs to release old games with
Slap that bad boy on there and voila
It really does look like shit
kindred chasm
Where's my respect for uninear filtering
glad frost
Surely this is all moot as presumably so long as the relevant flags/options are exposed, it can presumably be tweaked to one's liking
haughty iron
What do you mean
glad frost
Well, it sounds like people are trying to persuade Nuggs (and other modders) to set the graphics a certain way
haughty iron
Nah
glad frost
whereas I'm guessing that they'll present configurable options
haughty iron
He already removed the shit bilinear filter
So we good
People are just expressing their hatred on it
glad frost
ah right
pure radish
well even that can be reenabled
glad frost
well, i suppose the same point stands, I guess if it's easy enough, maybe both options should be left up to the user, assuming that is easy enough for nuggs and crew
pure radish
but I did change the default
haughty iron
Yeah if it's easy, no harm for it to be there optionally
pure radish
i lean on the side of not changing defaults unless there's an overwhelming justification
pure radish
yeah i did
haughty iron
Oh right
Great then
Most people want it off
In fact, I haven't seen anyone saying they want it on by default
Literally everyone is shitting on it
pure radish
but yeah personally i won't be bundling crt filters lol
you can do that yourself if you really want it
haughty iron
Yeah CRT filters are highly subjective
The only ones I wanna try are the one added by Mr Default and the other one that requires HDR
From CyberLab
glad frost
Honestly I gotta say, mad props to you nuggs, I think the work you're doing deserves a lot more respect than most people would give it credit for
haughty iron
Oh yeah, the guy is a madman
glad frost
it's sad we're even in this position, but I and many others who may not have voiced it are extremely grateful
kindred chasm
Nuggs' work has gotten me the courage to finally sat down and 100% mgs1
haughty iron
We're all grateful that you're making the dogshit MC version to be the best version of the game
kindred chasm
Currently in the process of doing VR, 90% done
glad frost
I remember getting Big Boss rank when I was like 17, which was... checks calender Jesus Christ, 20 years ago
definitely wouldn't bother if nuggs hadn't wizarded in the analog
haughty iron
At the same time, it makes me mad that Konami may potentially end up seeing this and thinking, "lol we can keep releasing broken/shit products, and the fans will fix them for us. Thank you for paying to beta test!"
glad frost
Yeah, true
haughty iron
I never condone piracy, but man, this is one of the few cases that Konami would deserve to see fans voting with their wallet...
We deserve better
I truly regret buying this collection at full price
kindred chasm
I'm a sucker for mgs. The promise of MGS4 might be breaking out of ps3 jail had me sold day 1 that broke
pure radish
im happy to pay for it to get these games off the consoles theyre stuck on
haughty iron
We all are, yeah
pure radish
as long as they give us mgs4
kindred chasm
It being on PC is just a cherry on top
pure radish
even if we have to fix it
haughty iron
I can already play MGS4 with zero crashes on my PC but most people can't
You need a beefy CPU to run it
glad frost
I'd be amazed if MGS4 comes to PC and runs any better than the current emulators
kindred chasm
What I really want is MGO2 natively on PC rather than emulating it
haughty iron
A native PC port will allow people with mid range CPUs to play it
glad frost
I mean, they either have to use the current emulator (would they even be allowed?) or make their own (unlikely right?) or do a native port
haughty iron
The emulated version now runs perfectly fine at 60 FPS
kindred chasm
That's easy to do, PS3 is shit. Even the 360 emu has less problems and that's got a quarter of dev time put into it
pure radish
4 is certainly going to be a native port if it comes at all
haughty iron
I mean, they either have to use the current emulator (would they even be allowed...
If they try to emulate it, then the PS4 and the Switch will never be able to run it
red cradle
So I assume the next step of MGS1 modding is find a possible way to actually modding the game?
haughty iron
So they have to make it a native port for each system
glad frost
but isn't that the whole thing with MGS4 - that the architecture of the PS3 makes it hard to port them?
pure radish
its already possible to mod mgs1
kindred chasm
It's been ported on 360 before
glad frost
oh right
haughty iron
Which means they can do it again
kindred chasm
It was never released to the public on account of needing 4+ discs. Today they won't need to do that
haughty iron
This time for PS4, Xbone, Switch, PS5, XSX, XSS, Steam
pure radish
the architecture is probably less of an issue these days, emulating the architecture is a completely different beast though
haughty iron
There ain't no way last gen consoles can emulate MGS4 in any capacity
And the point of the collection is to release these games everywhere
kindred chasm
Except for MGS1, fuck that game in particular
glad frost
i would assume a native port to PC would require a decent amount of work though, wouldn't it?
and it seems like they've put in the bare minimum with this one
pure radish
decent amount of work but less than you would think
glad frost
interesting
pure radish
it's a fairly modern game
kindred chasm
Long as they got the source code it's easily doable
pure radish
doing a source port of much older stuff is probably more difficult just because of how things have moved on
glad frost
ah right, true
kindred chasm
360 version apparently ran like a dream
pure radish
its also apparently an evolution of the mgs3 engine so
haughty iron
Yeah that was the report
I'm surprised this whole thing has surfaced in 2023
And not before
kindred chasm
Besides if volume 2 talks are true, the only game in there that needs any effort is 4. PW is done by Bluepoint and Konami's shown they're willing to just toss it in, and V's already on everything
haughty iron
Yeah, the dataminers found codenames for these 3 games in there
pure radish
yeah and they're doing delta lol so there's at least some money behind it
haughty iron
PW, MGS4, MGSV
pure radish
i wouldn't be surprised if the mgs4 we get is derived from that 360 port
haughty iron
I feel that volume 1 at least has helped funding either MGS4 (volume 2) and/or Delta
pure radish
since it will already have the directx backend and such
haughty iron
If they even kept that source code to begin with
red cradle
can't wait for MGS4 modding
kindred chasm
It has to be on the 360 port, too many things depend on ps3 doesn't exist in modern consoles
pure radish
eh konami is pretty big, i'd imagine they're like nintendo and archive everything
haughty iron
Well it seems like they lost the source code of MGS1
kindred chasm
Doesn't stop them from losing source code bigger companies lost bigger shit
haughty iron
There's a lot of evidence pointing to them having lost the source code of MGS1 actually
pure radish
mgs4 is much more recent though lol
haughty iron
Yeah
pure radish
in the days of modern source control etc
haughty iron
That's good
cerulean bough
Chyea and I wouldnt even take the "360 port of MGS4" rumor too seriously anymway
cerulean bough
Ryan Payton tends to embelish alot of details
kindred chasm
I mean Konami's spent a lot of money into Fox Engine and look at what happened to it
haughty iron
Fox Engine is probably archived
pure radish
they certainly still have fox engine though
haughty iron
I doubt they outright deleted it
kindred chasm
Cucked V, made a football game, and put it in a pachinko machine
pure radish
and probably every single version of it
kindred chasm
Meanwhile Delta's Unreal 5
cerulean bough
Its a thing Ryan Payton is talking about now, after the fact
Its defo still a rumor since it has no hard evidence outside of his testimony
pure radish
it's not surprising it was mothballed with the messy KJP divorce
haughty iron
Unreal 5 performs pretty bad for a lot of games
pure radish
who would maintain it?
cerulean bough
And again, Ryan Payton tends to embelish alot of stuff LOL
pure radish
these things just rot if they aren't actively maintained
they can't exactly ship new product on fox
it's a last gen engine
lots of knowledge left the building too
kindred chasm
And it still looks fucking amazing
haughty iron
Oh yeah it was the right move to get onto UE5
It's just that UE5 is not optimized yet and a lot of games run poorly on it
kindred chasm
What makes it more baffling to me though is that MGS3 is already on the Fox Engine
cerulean bough
I actually am pretty glad they moved away from Fox Engine, that thing looked great in some areas
But awful in others
haughty iron
Lords of the Fallen is a prime example
The game performs really bad on PS5
Constant FPS dips
It's a mess
cerulean bough
Yea any game making use of Nanite Geometry thru UE5 has been hit with alot of issues
haughty iron
I hope Delta doesn't perform like shit
cerulean bough
It defo needs alot of cleaning up
kindred chasm
It probably will tbh
haughty iron
But man, after seeing the state of this "master" collection...
Yeah
It probably will
It also looks pretty generic
😔
kindred chasm
That's probably why they're cherry picking what to show us
pure radish
it at least has the benefit of being a clean slate
cerulean bough
Its kinda hard to compare the work of MC directly to a new game tho
pure radish
MC is having to port 10+ year old projects where there is no institutional knowledge of how they work anymore
cerulean bough
Reverse Engineering and compiling a game to work on modern hardware is just a totally different ballgame
haughty iron
Konami so far has shown that they don't truly care about this franchise
kindred chasm
That and the guys that knew how to make them are fired
cerulean bough
I would say the opposite LOL
Konami has shown they do care to me
Its just
The product defo needed more time to bake
Theyre going ham on marketing and pushing MGS as their main franchise again
pure radish
yeah it's better than it dying a death
haughty iron
Nah, if they truly cared, they would have decompiled MGS1 and do a proper port for example. Fans have reverse engineered the GOG port and provided tons of fixes
kindred chasm
It's not time. They need manpower. Even if they were ejecting Kojimbo, his crew was still carrying Konami on the gaming front
cerulean bough
I dont think theres been a single day the past 2 months I havent seen any sort of official MGS tweet or ad
David Hayter is back in full force
pure radish
decompiling MGS1 is not really something you can just hire for
cerulean bough
Konami brought in Donna Burke for more concerts
pure radish
reverse engineering and engineering are very different skillsets
cerulean bough
Hell they even found Cynthia Harrel and got her involved in the franchise again
pure radish
you don't get the experience you need to reverse engineer something by hiring game devs
cerulean bough
Chyea you cant just "decompile a game", its an intensive process that requires just pure metric fuckton hours of research
pure radish
it's fairly moonshot to even go about trying to do that
hard to have a plan of record about that
hard to set deliverables
kindred chasm
Wouldn't it be better to just rebuild the game from the ground up at that point
pure radish
yes
cerulean bough
Yes and no
Depends on how confident you are on rebuilding it faithfully with your staff
pure radish
from a project management point of view, definitely yes
from a fans having nice feelings point of view, debatable
cerulean bough
If the intent is preservation, you run a much bigger risk of accidently fucking up some aspect
kindred chasm
Faithfully. Meanwhile johnny's ass got undies
pure radish
at least they're delicately positioned and faithful undies
kindred chasm
#notmyjohnny
cerulean bough
In the end, Im just happy we got actually accessible ports of the MGS games
Something fans have been screaming for nearly a decade
Even if its not the definitive version
kindred chasm
Pc is future proofing the franchise. Backward compatibility would've been nice too but sony
pure radish
sony made it disproportionately more difficult for themselves
cerulean bough
Chyea when it came to backwards compat, Xbox was ironically the best for awhile
pure radish
can't really just say sony bad
cerulean bough
Granted Xbox has always made it an express focus since the OG Xbox for backwards compat
Yea, its hard to exactly blame Sony for something that requires alot of planning and future proofing
Backwards Compat is a business model that rtequires alot of delicate planning and execution
That wont pay off till generations later
pure radish
i mean it can also compromise your current business
kindred chasm
Dumb question but would it be possible to port monster hunter assets to PW
pure radish
if you plan for back compat
haughty iron
In the end, Im just happy we got actually accessible ports of the MGS games
I feel that if they took the fans' fixes for the GOG port and further fixed what other issues it has (24 FPS cutscenes for example), the port would be better, and it'd be native too
cerulean bough
Dumb question but would it be possible to port monster hunter assets to PW
We're gonna have to wait for the PC port
haughty iron
But obviously they would never do that
kindred chasm
Go further into the crossover beyond chicken and lizard
haughty iron
What's baffling is that if 1 person can improve the M2 emulator by this amount, why didn't Konami do it in the first place
kindred chasm
Wouldn't bluepoint give us an idea what that's like or is it more complex than that
pure radish
i mean with things like the bilinear smoothing
i can imagine a decision was made
unfortunately it was the wrong one
analog is a strange omission
that's probably the only thing i can say they dropped the ball on
cerulean bough
Alot of things just scream they had to rush implementing alot of features
Is what I would put my money on
pure radish
the problem is a lot of these things are just options that existed already and they ended up not using them
on bilinear I can see it just being a call was made
soft falcon
Currently in the process of doing VR, 90% done
I would like VR a lot more if you could start missions instantly instead of having to wait maybe 10 seconds each attempt
pure radish
maybe they figured people would complain about jaggies
analog is just, bizarre though
soft falcon
It adds up for 300 missions
cerulean bough
Yea, its just funky to see comprehensive features like the pause menu or save data spoof added
But then things we previous could toggle on PS3, like Bilinear or Analog, are just not implemented again
kindred chasm
I would like VR a lot more if you could start missions instantly instead of havi...
I'd like it more personally if weapons didn't force you to do it twice
cerulean bough
Theres alot of parts of MC that clearly do show there was love and time put into changes
And then other aspects that are just baffling they left
pure radish
^^
cerulean bough
Just screams to me that they were rushed and didnt have enough time for MC
cerulean bough
The fucking fact we even have things restored that Bluepoint fucked up on HDC
Screams to me that there were devs who clearly worked on the OGs back in the day
That cared to restore certain things in the MC
soft falcon
you really have to be cynical to think it's **laziness**
I wonder if they didn't do much testing beforehand
Or just had incompetent testers
pure radish
i would be inclined to think they spotted some issue with analog that we're more willing to overlook
cerulean bough
Its kinda tendency we've seen with gaming the past decade
QA is just even more under appreciated than it was before
(and even then it was underappreciated)
Companies just tend to leave less time and effort towards QA as a whole now
pure radish
i mean QA is very often not what people think it is anyway
haughty iron
I have a friend who worked in Eidos until about 10 years ago
Has worked in several AAA games in his career
He told me that sometimes higher ups just don't care
QA may find several bugs but they don't deem them as important enough to address
pure radish
so much cynicism
haughty iron
So they just ignore them
pure radish
i'd be generous and say they have different things to worry about
haughty iron
That's not QA's fault
haughty iron
you really have to be cynical to think it's **laziness**
It's not laziness, I'd say it's more of a lack of funding and/or time
Because they ARE fixing stuff even now
For example the laser in MGS2
But it's like, why not wait a bit longer and release actually good versions of the games?
pure radish
that would be socialism
haughty iron
Or how they added CRT filters in MGS1 after release
Why not day 1?
Sure, the filters are bad but at least have them there lol
pure radish
i mean
i don't even want to get into the complexities of actually answering the "why" there
but there are many. many many reasons
the world is not as simple as lets make sure the MGS port is absolutely the best it could possibly be
lets get NASA on it etc
haughty iron
To me it's more like, if you're charging me $20 for a subpar port when I can just either dump my own copy on PC and play on a better emulator for free, or find a copy online, then something is wrong
I'm talking specifically about MGS1
It just leaves a sour taste
pure radish
perhaps. also it's on steam now
pure radish
i paid 50bux and i got a lot of games
many that were not on PC
several under steam for the first time where most of my library is
they're pretty ok
haughty iron
If we're talking convenience then sure
pure radish
improved with some fixes that didnt take much effort
its all good my dude
its all good
haughty iron
Yeah I get that, but this mentality also enables companies to get complacent
pure radish
i can find worse ways of spending 50bux
pure radish
and im learning a shitload in the process
haughty iron
So that's great
I wish I had your skills
Btw do you launch your mod through Steam like normal?
pure radish
yea
haughty iron
That's amazing
cerulean bough
Ultimately Im dissappointed the MC Colelction released in this state, but Im also happy that its both on PC and FINALLY accessible to practically everyone
haughty iron
Basically this
To me the worst offender is the audio in MGS2 and especially MGS3. That is a very serious bug
cerulean bough
Having to tell prospective new fans to "emulate" the past decade
Was a major barrier of entry
cerulean bough
Chyea Im glad they fixed most of the audio distortion for MGS2/3 tho
pure radish
those issues are probably where they're focusing tbh
cerulean bough
They just need to add the higher quality audio files
pure radish
and this apparent disc read error or w/e it is
so no analog for you while there's gamebreaking shit
cerulean bough
Which if they managed to fix the weird distortion issues already, I thinks its safe to assume we'll get the audio file quality fixed soon too
cerulean bough
those issues are probably where they're focusing tbh
Chyea I was honestly a bit shocked with how comprehensive the 1.3 patch was across all titles
Im hopefully we got more stuff incoming