stone compass
a mod that aims to make every vanilla Joker noticeably more complicated, requiring much more thought on the players end. in return, there should be more synergies and Jokers should be more powerful if used to their fullest extent
suggestions doc HERE -------→ https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KdAGnW1ntXrrdpWyZgHtaKW-x_4lT0-57tMybdHBN6U/edit?gid=0#gid=0
read the text at the top before suggesting!!!!!!!!!
@thorny prairie @molten orchid
Hello
molten orchid
how scholarly
stone compass
here is my idea for design guidelines
im going to lay down for a bit ill be back later
molten orchid
1 million Multiboxes
stone compass
i love Multibox
thorny prairie
the sinful jokers should have effects similar to the related gem effects, and scale based on how many cards of that suit had already been scored in this hand
e.g. Lusty Joker: Played cards with Heart suit give X1.1 Mult when scored, increases by X0.1 Mult for each previously scored Heart this hand. 1 in 2 chance to increase by X0.2 Mult instead
stone compass
i like that
maybe they should have harsher downsides if you stop paying attention to their suit, but have some effect carry over between hands?
thorny prairie
save that for the gems maybe?
stone compass
maybe
idk i like the idea of them scaling like that i just dont want them to be complete upgrades since to the player it still ends up being "play x suit"
if it also included the caveat of "avoid YZW suit at all costs" i feel it could be more interesting
thorny prairie
fair
it could decrease if other suits are scored in the hand
i don't really want it to carry over between hands tho because then that's kind of just the suit drink jokers in the upcoming paperback update
stone compass
😭
odd lance
📝
stone compass
it doesn’t have to full carry over i just don’t want you to be unpunished for playing another suit
i said nothing wrong that message is unedited
thorny prairie
icic
general statement btw: unless i say otherwise, i'm not particularly attached to any of the ideas i come up with and you can feel free to modify/ignore anything i put in this chat to your heart's content
stone compass
awrsom i love minorly modifying ideas
molten orchid
can i do obelisk
stone compass
yes hold on
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KdAGnW1ntXrrdpWyZgHtaKW-x_4lT0-57tMybdHBN6U/edit?usp=sharing make comments for now im going to actually lay down for real this time and when i come back i can add a few people as contributors to save myself a little bit
trail yew
a mod that aims to make every vanilla Joker noticeably more complicated, requiri...
finish aquillarri
stone compass
shut up
aqu is a focused effort i cant just do whatever wiht it and this is a more open mod while still having an actual purpose behind it
thorny prairie
finish aquillarri
code for me twin
trail yew
code for me twin
yes twin
stone compass
i feel like a genius
instead of just manually writing every joker name i just did this and then pasted it into the google sheets
thorny prairie
peak
stone compass
meta and triangle give me your emails if you want edit access to the doc
worthy igloo
as an immidiate enjoyer of this mod just based off of the concept, can we start commenting ideas
in the sheet
stone compass
im gonna axe the 'original effect' column from the table b/c
stone compass
forgot you can do that
thorny prairie
meta and triangle give me your emails if you want edit access to the doc
i keep forgetting that collaborating with people means i inevitably have to expose my 12 year old's idea of a good email address to them and i feel so fucking vulnerable /silly
i'll also send an edit request hold on
molten orchid
i keep forgetting that collaborating with people means i inevitably have to expo...
truth nuke
stone compass
its ok part of my email is also my deadname
molten orchid
you should probably change at least your google account display name
stone compass
probably yeah
thorny prairie
ok anyway now that i have edit access i'm going to Not Do Anything because i'm gonna try to go to sleep early for once
stone compass
im not against it but i'd prefer charge goes alongside usability rather than just being A Number
molten orchid
usable jokers could be useful probably though
thorny prairie
yayyy a third usable jokers system,,,
stone compass
if we use charge as a mechanic, there should
thorny prairie
tbh i don't like usable jokers in general, but i can put that aside for this mod
anyway yea entropy and all in jest each have their own usable jokers already
molten orchid
we dont have to have charge
stone compass
charge w/o usability is ok because i would rather a standard name for it rather than counters being kind of freeform whatevers
and counters are useful
stone compass
if we use charge as a mechanic, there should
1. be an infoqueue on every joker t...
hell, just literally define the charge multibox as a table at the top of the loc file and reference it directly
molten orchid
Obelisk - Rare
Gains X0.1 Mult when played hand is not most played poker hand
Gains X0.2 more Mult when played hand is [not most played hand], changes every hand
Resets if played hand is most played poker hand, then converts all but
1 remaining hand into Discards, and every $10 into discards
+2 Discard selection limit, -1 for each X1 Mult this has above X1
+0 Play selection limit, +1 for each X1 Mult this has above X1
=3 cards required to form a Straight
very dubious can be changed
thorny prairie
the straight effect feels a little disconnected from the rest of the joker imo
worthy igloo
yeah maybe resets all hand playing data
?
putting some ideas down in the sheet rn
i really like this mod concept i love complicating originally simple-ish games
molten orchid
the straight effect feels a little disconnected from the rest of the joker imo
also because the obelisk goes straight up idk
stone compass
Obelisk - Rare
Gains X0.1 Mult when played hand is not most played poker hand
G...
same opinion as meta on the straight thing, however i like the rest
stone compass
to this suggestion for astronomer: feels like a downgrade imo; more planets but you have to spend money (and a lot of it) on them
this ends up being $3 per planet and $4+ per pack which i just dont think is worth it when normal astronomer gives you way less planets but gives them to you at no cost when you do find them
worthy igloo
I put an annonymous one because if i did it on my actual email it would say my full legal name
stone compass
yea thats fine
i didn't reply here bc it was anonymous i just replied here because i would rather not have to talk over google sheets
worthy igloo
negative planet cards costs are inverted?
stone compass
inverted?
worthy igloo
they give their cost in money
worthy igloo
like it would say -$? whatever it is
stone compass
hmm
worthy igloo
so it gives you it back
stone compass
what if they cost less the more planet cards you buy (never $0 but closer and closer to 0 over time)
and when you buy something else their cost resets back to normal negative price
worthy igloo
wait does this version now ignore the shop slot for the negative planet, or replace one
stone compass
yeah it just adds it
and it explicitly only happens when rerolling, if you enter the shop for the first time there will be no negative planet card
worthy igloo
@stone compass i did a few more
stone compass
i really like the diet cola suggestion
drunkard seems like it wont be useful 99% of the time tho
earlygame, when discards matter the most, its not the easiest to get your hands on extra hand size
i do like juggler tho, perfect portrayal of "worse if you dont think, but even better if you do"
worthy igloo
i wanna see if its possible to use a consumale when you have 0 consumable slots
if so i have a new suggestion for drunkard
wait no merry ande
nvr mind
stone compass
btw im gonna lay down for real this time; will get to reading other stuff later tonight or tomorrow
stone compass
[flash card] imo this should be flipped to +1 booster slot and -1 shop slot so that you cant just crank ot up to like +15 per reroll
[mr.bones] i like the idea of an effect between 10% and 50%, but i honestly think it should reward you rather than being neutral, due the fact that youll often either oneshot the blind or be completely unable to win
[wee joker] i like this, however i think it should reset its scaling back to 2 at end of round in order to not be basically quadratic scaling if you can consistently draw a lot of 2s
stone compass
a mod that aims to make every vanilla Joker noticeably more complicated, requiri...
<@&1460584319486791871> hi Modding Mod can you pin this pwease 
molten orchid
lily's Joker seems interesting
i like lily's Splash, but maybe make it so the bonuses apply per scoring card
(All played cards count in scoring,
cards that would have been unscoring give +25 chips when scored for each scoring card
cards that would score regardless give -10 chips when scored for each scoring card)
stone compass
so like 4 unscoring cards means +400 chips total because 2544=400
molten orchid
4 unscoring cards would be +100 chips from them
since theres 1 scoring card
and then -10 chips
stone compass
oh it’s for the alternate one
stone compass
oh
interesting
i think that’s good
if you’d like to add that to the doc and remove the comment you’re good to imo
molten orchid
done
it also just Kills you if you play a 5 card hand
faceless seems fine
the rest in the sheet also seem okay
molten orchid
Scholar - Common
Aces give +20 Chips and +4 Mult when scored
All Vanilla Jokers gain an extra ability
(/j)
worthy igloo
[flash card] imo this should be flipped to +1 booster slot and -1 shop slot so t...
what i meant by this one was all items bought JUST before that reroll. I dont know how to word this shorter, but it upgrades by +1 mult on reroll for each item bought within that shop window, as in not all previous shop stuff, but just between when you did a reroll and the next one
so max it could give without the +1 shop slot for booster would be +5 (voucher, boosters and cards)
that secondary effect was to just make it somewhat cheaper
molten orchid
Droll Joker - Common
[whatever it does in vanilla]
The fourth card in the scoring hand is counted as the suit of the second card
If played hand does not contain a Flush, the first two cards do not score
molten orchid
yeah
worthy igloo
nice
molten orchid
actually idk if it should be this complex
worthy igloo
I have an alternative idea
+5 mult if played hand is a flush, and an additional +10 mult if hand is a [random suit] flush
odd lance
castle random, or ancient random?
worthy igloo
castle random, or ancient random?
castle
stone compass
i quite like myst's proposed Canio
stone compass
lily's Joker seems interesting
putting this officially on the doc
worthy igloo
obeslisk is now viable
stone compass
i specifically designed that effect with the idea that you could use it to obeliskmaxx
thorny prairie
ok looking over the sheet
i also like myst's canio, main thing i'd tweak is simplifying the 4th box to just say "This Joker gains X0.5 Mult when a face card is destroyed", because played and scored face cards are gonna be destroyed anyway. that technically loses a trigger but i think it's fine
satellite and astronomer are fun
feel free to ignore me but mime bothers me a bit purely because with crossmod you can have held-in-hand triggers from sources other than enhancements
stone compass
i actually intentionally did that with mime just because it wouldnt affect vanilla most of the time and it would technically be more interesting with other things
like if you had a blue seal on a card you would be more inclined to get gold on other cards so it has more triggers
cold crag
a mod that aims to make every vanilla Joker noticeably more complicated, requiri...
Hey whoops
Somehow this ping slipped right under my radar
Didn’t see it until just now
Sorry 💔
stone compass
all good my goat
stone compass
approved astronomer in its current state
note that approval does not mean its final it just means that its Good Enough For Now
midnight plover
Such a fun and dumb idea
The commons seem hard to come up with something that's complex but simple, and capable of being both weaker and stronger than the vanilla option. But that's a fun design challenge
muted pendant
proposed Myst(heh)ic Summit and Loyalty Card
midnight plover
Added a Lusty Joker and Ceremonial Dagger suggestion
Also considering what would be fun for the bananas, and I think going full eeveelution on them to over-complicate them might be fun. Where Cavendish has different abilities based on how Gros Michel perished
molten orchid
Added a Lusty Joker and Ceremonial Dagger suggestion
lusty seems interesting but seems strictly weaker ?
dagger seems okay
midnight plover
I was considering an interaction with shared ranks, as well, but that seemed too much like a second effect. Though I mainly aimed for complexity, and thought the balance would be sorted out through feedback, haha
molten orchid
oops all 6s ?
midnight plover
Also proposed a Gros Michel and Cavendish
molten orchid
scholar (definitely dont have to use this one but)
(100 Knowledge) The fifth scoring Ace each hand gives X2 Chips
exotic lodge
Best mod?
molten orchid
scholar (definitely dont have to use this one but)
Gains 1 Knowledge for each s...
maybe the abilities could be randomised each run
midnight plover
Also added a Campfire, Showman and Cloud 9 suggestion
midnight plover
scholar (definitely dont have to use this one but)
Gains 1 Knowledge for each s...
This should be flavoured as grades, btw 😛
molten orchid
True...
stone compass
methinks this is interesting but not strong enough
stone compass
to all who want to contribute -- the github is now ready for contributors
there's a helpful list of do's and don'ts on the readme.md
if a joker's effect is in the 'effect' section of the concepting doc, feel free to implement it! otherwise, just be patient
thorny prairie
(you can also choose to suggest an effect yourself, by adding a comment to the concepting doc)
stone compass
^
should be clear, by 'be patient' i mean for jokers with existing but unapproved suggestions
for any other joker, you can be the one to suggest it
also multiple people can suggest to the same joker at once but try and avoid it if you can (if you can't, thats fine, we all have our genius ideas)
stone compass
approved the following:
oop heres gros michel
i have NO clue how you would word cavendish ingame though 😭
also imo this ice cream suggestion is a bit lacking , its strength is just that it scales slower if you play hands with lower ranks but i think that this is cancelled out by the fact that it can melt so much faster if disregarded
thorny prairie
i have NO clue how you would word cavendish ingame though 😭
honestly I'd just make it switch descriptions based on how gros michel was destroyed in the current run
stone compass
honestly fair
gros michel seems particularly hard to word though due to the variable probabilities
i guess you could just do like
viscid galleon
(currently 13 in 52 chance)```like four times
red pewter
submitted some ideas
midnight plover
oop heres gros michel
I think you'd probably want this to just display what's relevant, except in the collection
exotic lodge
🤔
red pewter
deck of comments
midnight plover
Added a suggestion for Dusk
muted pendant
also imo this ice cream suggestion is a bit lacking , its strength is just that ...
hack/high card slop
yea
stone compass
theoretical bull?
what if you took a page out of cryptid but did it better and made it give less money and then as you earn more and more
also maybe make it percent based (but also absolute value so it’s always positive)
molten orchid
hmmm
stone compass
like, all money changes are 80% as strong, increase by 5% when money changes. resets to 80% if no longer earning the same sign of money
80% as strong being positive though
so you’d lose (1/0.8)x more
stone compass
i’m fine with decimal money
maybe should be rounded to nearest tenth but decimal money is alright
stone compass
Scholar (Concepting/Early Development)
i’ll try and get around to more suggestions today
stone compass
Scholar is Back
uneven knoll
Scholar is Back
Coding hell
neat forum
holy moly
stone compass
(there's 1 file for every joker in vanilla and this commit was me renaming all of them and adding their internal boilerplate code)
stone compass
yeah
neat forum
I should've done that dangit
stone compass
easier for the purposes of seperating purposes because of how complex each individual joker is
neat forum
i was told to cram them all into one sheet for each rarity
uneven knoll
My coder just makes every rekoj's code its own seperate lua file
neat forum
but yeah that makes sense
stone compass
i was told to cram them all into one sheet for each rarity
sorting by rarity is what i typically do
and is what i would typically recommend
the only reason Scholar is any different is because
pliant jackal