#Square Joker Rework

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

kindred warren
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Square Joker is actually good enough if you get it early on, adding even a few chips in the first few antes is great when you’re playing High Card/Pair, and it doesn’t have much of a downside when you consider that Pairs are the strongest hands in ante 8 runs

dire hearth
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I prefer what the 1.A.0 mod did and bumped the scaling to +9 chips

kindred warren
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Square does not need an over 2x buff

dire hearth
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+4 chips is underwhelming when it doesn't mesh with Straight or flush builds

kindred warren
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Well it’s not meant to be used with straights or flushes, similarly to how 4 Fingers or Smeared don’t play well with Pairs

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Square + any basic mult scaler like Green, Supernova, Bus, Pants, or Red Card is enough to beat the game with

dire hearth
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Square and pants is a good combo but most of that comes from pants' mult scaling

kindred warren
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Square still contributes a fair bit to the combo

dire hearth
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That can be paired with ×mult Jokers for a bonkers two pair build, but it would also work without square, and square's niche is 4OAK and two-pair builds

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It deserves a little buff, at least

kindred warren
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+9 is not a little buff lol

dire hearth
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+9 was chosen just to keep with the square number motif, but I would also accept something like +5 or +6 per

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Runner is a chip scaler of the same rarity, and that one gets +15 per specific hand type played

kindred warren
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I think both runner and square are good

dire hearth
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I think square having the more lenient "play 4 cards" is deserving of a lessened chip scaling, but only +4 chips is a little small

kindred warren
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I’m cool with reverting the change from before and making it start with 16 chips

dire hearth
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that would also be fine actually

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Would make it unique as the only scaler not to start at +0 or ×1

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So, assuming red deck on white stake, you get 4 hands each round, and there's 24 rounds in a game (assuming you don't skip). That's 4 hands a round, times 24 rounds gives 96 possible hands. On the extremely rare circumstance you play two-pairs or 4OAKs for each of those 96 hands (or any other combo with 4 cards), this joker gives a grand total of 386 chips by the last hand of the Finisher Blind. There were an awful lot of caveats to that score for the price of 150% of Stuntman's boost

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120 is selling it short, but doesn't invalidate your point of Squoker needing a buff of sorts

kindred warren
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I feel like square ends up around 200ish

dire hearth
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depends on when you get it and how much you bend to the 4 card play

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I presume your number assumes getting it ante 1 small blind shop?

kindred warren
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Somewhere in the first 2-3 antes

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I always full lean into it unless I have a good reason not to

reef shell
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(Ik its already been brought up, just thought of it as i just did a runner run)

cerulean acorn
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Bruh

cerulean acorn
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Or hc

cerulean acorn
kindred warren
cerulean acorn
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it’s shit cause wtf does 91 have to do with squares

dire hearth
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I don't think 91 is a square number

cerulean acorn
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Likely a typo of 81

low hemlock
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And idk, I agree that chips are necessary to some extent, but getting that from planet cards is so much easier and better

icy wind
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I do think that square is bad

smoky spoke
smoky spoke
unique prism
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i used to think square joker was weak as hell but honestly, having given it a shot, it's a pretty competent joker that offers up some alternate playstyles and unique synergies. I think it's fine

runic fractal
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I’ve won with square joker many times (on gold stake) it does not need a buff.

low hemlock
low hemlock
smoky spoke
runic fractal
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Well it’s a common joker

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It’s gonna be as you’d expect: underwhelming

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Square joker is good with the right plays and proper jokers

low hemlock
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Runner is like the closest think

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And it's way better

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Still a common

smoky spoke
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on average they scale the same per blind tbh

low hemlock
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I don't know about that...

runic fractal
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You have less flexibility in what you can play when scaling runner

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And the only 2 hands that scale it aren’t particularly easy to make consistently

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That’s why it gives more chips

reef shell
smoky spoke
smoky spoke
reef shell
low hemlock
runic fractal
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The condition for scaling square is… easy

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Just send 4 cards

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Bam

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Easy scaling

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If you don’t think the +4 per hand is worth then don’t use it smiley_face

smoky spoke
low hemlock
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Except for you want it as early as possible, where you're still trying to play strong 5 card hands while your getting up to the interest cap

reef shell
smoky spoke
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this is my usage compared between the 2, runner is at #10 and square is #11 for my most used jokers

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reef shell
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I don't think it's bad at all to be clear, the majority of jokers aren't

low hemlock
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Why are you using him xd

smoky spoke
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its a good joker

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i like to win

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therefore i use him

low hemlock
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That's where I disagree

fringe bramble
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scaling chips is so strong that even a bad source is good enough

icy wind
reef shell
icy wind
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Like you have to scale them or else they're bad

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And you can't scale with planets early

stiff dirge
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I think square joker lies in the place of reliable scaling chip joker for pair and HC
Like yeah, it may suck and get only 100 or so chips at the end, but it's always there and ready to be scaled

reef shell
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Their only real shortcoming compared to others is needing to be scaled, the others lack consistency, limit -hand sizes which are some of the strongest jokers or cards, and can often be failed to be played more than once a round

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They arent the clear best, which is why I added arguably

cerulean acorn
# icy wind Why

They can be played every hand for a round, the scaling is slow but you just grab a +mult joker for the early game

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Most of the time the majority of your score comes from jokers, not your hand levels. This means that there isn’t really a downside to playing pairs as they only score slightly less than something like flush. Plus pairs have a lot of synergy with some pretty good jokers

smoky spoke
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took him at a3 and still got +240 with 4 hands each blind

image.png
kindred warren
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Square balatroheart

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It’s lame but sometimes lame is what you need

low hemlock
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After some more experimentation with him here are my thoughts

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It's not great but it gives more value from playing consistent hands

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still needs a buff imo but not mine

narrow chasm
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91 chips is so broken

ashen trout
reef shell
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Mayve it's not worth 4 but 9 is overkill

cerulean acorn
naive blaze
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Unfortunately we don't have any square numbers between 4 and 9

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How about +1 chip for every time a card is scored if played hand contains exactly 4 cards?

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Actually that's probably even stronger than 9