Joker Forge - Create Balatro Mods Visually and Export the Lua Files (WIP)

[heady frost]

lmao

[wild pier]

btw add skip tags to your list of like upcoming stuff

[slate glen]

ahhh

is this a fixable issue?

or should i make it 1

[heady frost]

100%

[heady dock]

speaking of skip tags, there should probably be an option to create skip tags

[slate glen]

damn balatro thinks my ass can't possibly be poor

[heady dock]

for jokers ofc

[slate glen]

tag creation would be fun

[wild pier]

and like a key press

[heady frost]

added it to the list

ill solve the player money bug now

[heady frost]

solved

[slate glen]

lovely

[heady dock]

also something that i ran into is that passively adding hands just doesnt work for some reason

[nimble island]

do i just download it again and it should be fine?

[heady frost]

yeah, should be all good now

[heady frost]

yeah i still need to work on the passive effect stuff. the passive trigger is a bit broken as it is because it requires special logic that breaks away from everything else ive built

[icy crow]

Is there a way to display text currently (for example "upgraded" text)?

[wild pier]

btw have you seen the code by smg9000 that plays a video popup

and if not i’ll send you the code file

btw also the gif popup too

[icy crow]

I mean something like SMODS.calculate_effect

[heady frost]

you can add a custom message to your effects but other than that no there isnt anyway to do something like that

[heady frost]

some people are actually born gods at SMODS

[wild pier]

its supposed to be a .ogv file

[heady dock]

Common, Uncommon, Rare and Legendary text colors should probably also be added to the color selection (also the fancy animated text color thats used for editions if possible)

[nimble island]

i have to say you might have genuinely revolutionised modding, thank you

[icy crow]

Would be cool if each effect had a switch "trigger on blueprint" or something.
Toggling the

and not context.blueprint

Part of if's
(Unless that's already possible)

[heady frost]

very good idea, i will add it as an issue on the github

[heady frost]

very true

[icy crow]

Also if the joker has "blueprint compatibility" off in the setting it would be force added

Or just toggled and giving a warning or something when clicked

And a confirmation button

[heady frost]

https://github.com/Jayd-H/joker-forge/issues/77 perfect

[heady frost]

that is so kind of u, thank u

[wild pier]

okay idea. "Each Interaction" "Each Key Press" "Screamer [Shows image and plays.ogg audio and image fades out with audio, Also a setting that only dissapears when audio is over aka no fade out]" ”Replaces Joker "

and probably boss blind [need a 21 frame spritesheet horizantly tho.]

[heady frost]

will definitely be present in the next update haha

if i was not a solo dev and i had a team behind me, that would be top priority lol

[heady dock]

unless the blind has a more complex animation, couldn't the other frames be easily generated by applying a filter to specific pixels on each frame to recreate the glimmer type effect

[icy crow]

I read something about the name of context.joker_main trigger and I don't know if it was solved but I had "When Joker is scored" or something along the lines of that

*read while checking what I missed in this channel

[heady frost]

i feel like "when a joker is scored" is ambigious though. because jokers can technically score whenever depending on their effects

you are correct though, "when a joker is scored" is much more accurate than "after the round" or something

[icy crow]

After the round sounds like at cash out

There's a context.end_of_round or something similar

[heady dock]

checking what type of consumable was used for the using consumable trigger should be added to the yet to be implemented list

also, retriggering discarded cards is currently an option but as far as i know it doesnt actually work on any discard effects

[heady frost]

good idea, i will add the consumable type condition to the list

[heady frost]

my bad i meant "end of hand" haha

[heady frost]

it might work on things like ramen or something lol, i will have to test it

[heady dock]

yeah i only tested with rebate

[icy crow]

This context is used for triggering normal scoring effects on jokers
Is the description of context.joker_main in documentation

Could add it in Smaller text as the description of the trigger

[heady frost]

if u already tested it and it doesnt work then yeah youre probably right it doesnt work lol, ill remove it from the list of valid effects until i figure out a way to solve it

[heady frost]

the trigger could be called "when scording occurs" or something

[heady dock]

im pretty sure morefluff has a joker that retriggers discard effects, maybe it could be worth looking at the code for that

[heady frost]

thank you that would be useful to know

i will add it to the github as an issue

[nimble island]

all i need to do is learn how to make joker art and i can be an official modder

[heady frost]

if u did the art for that joker that you was doing earlier, youre already much better than i am haha

[nimble island]

i didnt but i wish i could

it was just for an example mod so i dont feel bad for swiping it

[heady frost]

when you figure it out, you are free to submit a placeholder art lol

[nimble island]

ill try

[slate glen]

i feel this

i don’t even wanna attempt drawing pixels

[slate glen]

@heady frost can you add Modify Internal Variable to the when Round ends trigger?

i'm surprised it isn't on there

[icy crow]

You won't learn without trying tho

[slate glen]

i don't think X Chips works

[icy crow]

Another spelling error 👀

https://jokerforge.jaydchw.com/
Up

[icy crow]

Either it doesn't exist or not listed in documentations page about calculation function

[heady frost]

oh damn you right, good catch

[heady frost]

not listed, it is supported by default

[heady frost]

where

[icy crow]

No he said it doesn't work

[slate glen]

yeah my xchips card did nothing

[icy crow]

.

[heady frost]

send json

[slate glen]

i uhh

repurposed the joker

but it was literally just adding xchips every hand so like

does it actually work at all

[heady frost]

it should do, i will test now

[slate glen]

also, i got this one recently

the skipping function works, the variable tracks

only problem with it is it gives +1 mult during the small blind, when the variable has been set to 0

possibly a similar issue to the money being 0?

[heady frost]

xchips is working on my end

[heady frost]

send json pretty pls

[slate glen]

i'll put the xchips one back as well and send

[heady frost]

yay thank u

[restive elk]

if you want another placeholder image this is what i'm using for my mod

[heady frost]

thank you haha that is great

[heady frost]

yeah i see both of these issues, will have a look, thanks for letting me know lol

[heady frost]

just added it to jokerforge now

[restive elk]

ya!

[hidden oriole]

site sometimes messes up jokers

[heady frost]

send json pretty please

messes up in what way also

[hidden oriole]

just not applying images correctly on jokers

[slate glen]

this man's jokers terrify me

some of us were not meant to mod balatro

[hidden oriole]

i know i have no ideas

[slate glen]

nah they're good jokers

they

are just scary

[hidden oriole]

i never had plans releasing it public

[heady frost]

both issues should be fixed now. remaining hands condition was a bit wrong, and yeah the modifyinternalvariable had the same random issue that player money had when it comes to values of 0

[hidden oriole]

i had manually to add blank joker to fix that

nvm it didn't helped at all

[heady frost]

im taking a look now

[slate glen]

wrong?

should it have been 0?

[heady frost]

yes

[slate glen]

hmm

fair

[heady frost]

but there was a bigger issue that it uncovered too so it was not user error dont worry lol

[slate glen]

ah right

we like solving those

ty for checking it out

[heady frost]

no worries, i appreciate you guys bug testing so much

its like having my very own team of quality assurance because a lot of these i wouldnt have found myself

[heady frost]

i dont get how the images are not applying properly

oh wait i think i see it

[hidden oriole]

like umbrela man supposed to have his black-white silouette and not spy hanging him self

and that is with every other joker

[heady frost]

i think i see what you mean, theres definitely some tomfoolery happening with jokers that haev transparent parts

[hidden oriole]

i don't think i have joker with transparent parts

[heady frost]

the images were so fucked i thought you did haha

[heady dock]

im pretty sure there is just an atlas issue, i use cryptid placeholder sprites and one of my jokers just used a different one that the one i put in

[heady frost]

have you got a json i can have a look at

[heady dock]

i do

[hidden oriole]

nvm i do🥀

[heady frost]

do u remember which ones were changing sprites

[heady dock]

Medusa changes sprites, should use the common (blue) placeholder sprite but uses the uncommon one instead

[hidden dagger]

place holder joker :)

[heady frost]

lets gooooooooooooo, thank u

[heady dock]

though i did add more jokers since so that might have changed

[heady frost]

will have a look at now, i think it might be the atlas generating the images in rows, but the code generation not realising properly

[heady frost]

<3

[heady frost]

just had a quick look, it doesnt seem like any of them have the wrong sprite or anything

but im gonna test further with a bunch of duplicated extra credit jokers

[hidden oriole]

wait

i reloaded the site aqnd now everything works fine

[heady frost]

code works in mysterious ways...

[hidden dagger]

could you actully change it to this one because i fucked up the montains lol

[heady frost]

no worries lol, done it now

tbh i dont see the difference lol, great joker art tho

[hidden oriole]

i have a silly idea

[icy crow]

God

[heady frost]

change all of these to 1/100, make hand played give 500 mult.

+500 mult, 1/100 to destroy self when doing ANYTHING

[hidden dagger]

he should see a therapist

[hidden oriole]

blank just dies of anything now lol

[heady frost]

also finally fixed this UI bug haha

[slate glen]

lesgoooo

[hidden oriole]

should i really release this abomination

[heady dock]

having an "after hand" trigger would be nice, as in like the same context that ice cream loses chips. would also make for a more convenient place to reset variables that should be reset each hand

[heady frost]

will get on this now

(after i finish what ive been cooking up)

[heady frost]

added auto-save functionalty. now it will save changes to your browsers storage so you dont have to worry about accidently hitting refresh!

[hidden dagger]

cinema✋ 🤚

[icy crow]

Make a confirmation when clicking start fresh. Someone may missclick

[hidden oriole]

is it possible to make animated joker support

[heady frost]

no unfortunately not

i would not even know how to add that in lol

[icy crow]

Maybe some day

[young relic]

NOW I DONT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT REFRESHING ON ACCIDENT!!!

also i think im stupid but how do i make the "create joker" effect give another modded joker

[hidden oriole]

get that modded joker index?

[heady frost]

you should be able to just use that jokers id and it should work

i havent tested it with modded jokers so if you encounter an error let me know but it should just work

[icy crow]

Wasn't it j_<prefix>_<name> for modded ?

I'm not sure tho

Just recall format with prefix

[young relic]

w h y

[heady frost]

send json pretty please

if its about the creating a joker from another mod check if you have the correct prefix for it lol

[young relic]

creating another joker from the same mod

might just be the prefix though so

[icy crow]

At least it's not the error with the code generation

[heady frost]

afaik some jokers are called differently in game files

i always test with cavendish

anyways i added the "when a hand finishes scoring" trigger

[hidden oriole]

i love negative mult

[icy crow]

Wait it's not negative tho?

Just really small

when you're done with jokers what will come next? Consumables or something else?

[hidden oriole]

it gives 0 chips

[icy crow]

Yeah because it's multiplying by 0.000000<insert 100+ zeros here>0000000011

[hidden dagger]

so im making a joker that gives 2.5 xmult per hand size bellow 8 and it did nothing

[heady frost]

instead of not greater than 7, you could do less than or equal to 6

[heady frost]

also it wont do it per hand size unfortunately because i still need to add stuff like that in

[hidden oriole]

i love it even more

[heady frost]

after i have reworked the random chance system, i will work on a "global variables" type of system where you can easily access things like consumables used, hands played, etc. as variables

[heady frost]

that is not even balatro anymore

[hidden oriole]

why

[icy crow]

I wonder if (when) will my joker idea be available to do here

dandelion
gains 0.5xmult every time this joker has been sold this game
(currently 1.0xmult)

(I already made it but it would be fun to tinker with it here)

[young relic]

kinda wish you can force a sticker (i.e eternal) onto a joker with this

but that might be a bit complicated to do

[heady frost]

need to add the "when this joker is sold" trigger lol

[heady frost]

great idea, don't think it's too complicated, will look into it tomorrow

[young relic]

it'd be really nice since i don't want to have a specific "perma debuff" joker to be sellable

(cough)

[icy crow]

Are there any triggers related to selling?

[heady frost]

no not at the moment because from my understanding a lot of conditions and effects might need changes specifically for that

some triggers are easier to add like the after hand played because it uses very similar stuff to hand played and whatnot

but I will probably get on it tomorrow "when this joker is sold", "when a joker is sold"

[icy crow]

Is context.selling_card just for jokers, or for consumables too?

[blazing yarrow]

anything that's sold iirc

[sour spear]

is my internet just forcing me to learn lua code to mod

[heady dock]

idk if its been done yet, but i think i've made a pretty accurate recreation of loyalty card

also space joker, idk why that one isnt there yet besides the fact that itll trigger during scoring instead of before it

[heady frost]

yeah I need to change this but I doesn't really matter

[heady frost]

if you can be bothered make a pr with this added to the vanilla remade

there is a JSON in /public/vanillaremade.json. the vanilla remade page just takes jokers from there, you can save that mod as json and just copy paste the joker part into that JSON and it should work

[heady dock]

i dont really know how to do that because i dont use github a lot, could i just send the json files instead

[heady frost]

no worries, send the json over I'll add it

[heady dock]

do you have vanilla joker textures, the ones from the wiki are in a wierd size for some reason

oh nvm, i found a good one

here they are

[icy crow]

You do matter!

[sour spear]

amazing

[floral hearth]

mmmmmm balancing

[sour spear]

balancing, never heard of it

[heady dock]

i recreated some more jokers and also figured out that i can and should put the numbers for chance effects as a variable in the description

wee joker doesnt have a texture because i could not find a single place that had one in a reasonable aspect ratio

[sour spear]

ngl it would be cool if you can import an animation spritesheet and make an animated joker sprite

[icy crow]

balatrowiki is the place I took some textures from

[gusty citrus]

nevermind, i'm blind and didnt see the first hand drawn trigger itself lmao

[icy crow]

https://balatrowiki.org/images/Wee_Joker.png

[gusty citrus]

i assumed wee just used the same texture except internally scaled down

[heady dock]

yeah i tried that but its 203 x 271 for whatever reason so you cant use it

[icy crow]

sad

[heady dock]

it has to be 71 x 95 or 142 x 190

[icy crow]

i resized it to 142x190

don't know if there's any quality lost tho

[heady frost]

ty so much, added them now

[icy crow]

if you disable a rule, save the rules an re-enter the rule editor the rule isn't disabled. if this is the intended behaviour what does disabling even do?

[heady frost]

disabling is not properly implemented yet at all

neither is duplicate, rename, etc.

[icy crow]

oh that makes sense

[wheat jetty]

are you able to export the code of just a single joker

instead of an entire mod

[heady frost]

was planning on working on this today

should be easy to do, after i finish what im working on rn

[gusty citrus]

preview goes over

[heady dock]

that is an issue but you should also just add more line breaks because the game doesnt put those in automatically

[slate glen]

@heady frost unconfirmed but hearing reports from others using my mod that my jokers are appearing in the shop multiple times, without using Showman

any idea if this is tied to something under the hood?

[heady frost]

i will definitely look into this

this is what im working on currently

[heady frost]

consider it a warning to put more [s] tags into your jokers lol

[slate glen]

unconfirmed, as i said, i have not experienced this myself yet

and can’t test it atm, at work

so they could be making it up but you never know

[heady dock]

im pretty sure this is an issue, i got a duplicate of one of my own jokers once while testing

[heady frost]

i will look into it then after im done overhauling this random chance system, probably not too difficult of a fix

[icy crow]

are legendary jokers really 1k?

also 🔥

[lapis mauve]

no

they're $20

even though theyre not avaliable in the shop, you can calculate the buy price by doubling the sell price iirc

and legendary jokers sell for $10

[heady frost]

this would mean if you duplicate it from jokerforge and put them into the game they would sell for 500 lmao

if you guys notice any changes that need changing from the examples like in vanilla remade or extra credit, you are free to make a pull request for the changes. its all just localised to this file

https://github.com/Jayd-H/joker-forge/blob/main/public/vanillaremade.json

[nimble island]

is there a way to also create a new rarity like exotic from cryptid or polterworx(RIP), if not, it would be cool

btw if anyone wants to use this as legendary art if they have none, you are welcome to

[heady frost]

no unfortunately not at the moment, that kinda stuff will come when i expand it out to making custom consumables and stuff like that

[swift night]

What mechanics are left to be added?

[icy crow]

bunch

[swift night]

Yeah but from joker elements

[icy crow]

after that there's this MAYBE

[icy crow]

oh

[spark patio]

Editions will be certainly something interesting to code

[heady frost]

currently i am working on revamping the random chance system, after that, i need to add 'global variables'. basically variables that are pre-determined and take from existing things that balatro tracks (times rerolled, consumables used, etc.). then all that is left is to refine the code gen, and add atleast as many effects, conditions, and triggers to have every vanilla joker fully replicable.

i reckon it will be around a month or so if development goes well until i start working on custom consumables, rarities, editions, etc.

[hidden oriole]

for decks there'salready mod to create them

[heady frost]

also i need to add functionality to do operations on variables when they get used. for example, add 20 * $chipsvar chips

but tbf, you can kinda get away with some of that because you can just increment by 20 or something

and i also want to implement a new page where users can upload their jokers, and other users can browse it and duplicate them to their collection, kind of like a showreel on what people have made

[lapis mauve]

please do add an option for jokers not to show up there, and add credit

[heady frost]

yeah it will be like an opt in thing, like an extra button on your joker

[lapis mauve]

would be really annoying if people claim your joker as their own

[heady frost]

to submit it to the page

[heady frost]

yeah dont even worry haha

[lapis mauve]

I mean it’s pretty limited and last time i checked it didnt even work

[keen glade]

You can add a yes_pool_flag to hide a joker from pool, and no_collection to hide it from the collection yes_pool_flag = 'joker_key_flag', no_collection = true,

Which still allows the card to be created

[heady frost]

well, i was thinking it would just be a button, like near the delete button. when clicked, it will open a confirmation modal, and it will send the joker json to a simple web server, then when you navigate to that page, it will just bring up all the jokers that it has stored

[hidden oriole]

it does work for me greatfully

[heady frost]

HUGE UPDATE JUST PUSHED OUT. now effects can be grouped up with random chance, you can chain these random chance groups, or not, etc. etc. please let me know about any issues or anything this causes rather here or as an issue on the github repository. this required big updates to a lot of systems so i am expecting things to break haha.

with this feature you can now discern between effects:

if 1/4:
do x
do y

or

if 1/4:
do x

if 1/4:
do y

to add effects to a random chance group, just click on the group and add effects in, to add them normally, just click out of the group (anywhere else on the rulecard). i wanted to implement a feature that allowed dragging of effects in and out of these groups, but that will require big changes to the UI, which i want to do all at once when i change it so you can drag blocks from the block palette to your rules.

[strong sun]

Sorry, chiming in because I'm using the Forge to make a joker. Which your latest update actually comes in quite handy for! Does this mean we can have multiple effects for a random chance outcome, like for example a 1 in 8 chance for either a +chips or a +mult?

[heady frost]

yes, here is how you would do that

[strong sun]

Alright, excellent

[flat valve]

isn't this a 1 in 8 chance for +chips and another independent 1 in 8 chance for +mult

[strong sun]

Yes, that's exactly what I meant

[flat valve]

fair enough

the way you worded your question sounded like a 1 in 8 chance to do something, which then chooses between +chips and +mult

this is a really cool project but i can't help but feel that, for some of this functionality, coding in the joker directly is less faff once you have vscode set up

then again i know how to code

[heady frost]

doing something like that would not be possible still unfortunately, theoretically i could allow for random chance groups to be created inside random chance groups but im tired of programming random chance for today haha

[heady frost]

it probably is, it takes me way longer to add this functionality into joker forge than it does for me to write a couple lines haha

[strong sun]

Oh, that... that actually sounds more fun, and would be amazing to implement when there's time, lol

[flat valve]

if you want to do effects that complex i feel like a visual editor falls apart unless it's SUPER robust

[heady frost]

mine doesnt 😉

(it might)

[flat valve]

there's so many undocumented smods features as-is, and if a whole community can't document them one person stands no chance documenting and adding all of that stuff into a visual format

[heady frost]

you say this, but i am doing it

[toxic aspen]

Why the negativity he jus ballin

[flat valve]

not being negative or anything, it is a really cool project and the website looks super clean

[heady frost]

its not like jokerforge will ever replace standard mod coding for balatro lol, if you want some crazy effects like the ones seen in cryptid or whatever, then you are always gonna be better off coding it manually lol

[heady frost]

thank u i appreciate it

[flat valve]

it's like mcreator where i feel like it doesn't actually lower the bar that much anyways

if you have no idea how to code and you make anything more than small-scale joker mods you're going to massively struggle debugging, and people are going to struggle to read generated code

[heady frost]

the type of people who are already wizards with smods and can code masterpieces are not the type of people to use an app like this

i think you are just thinking about your particular use case

in what world does making modding more accessible equal a bad thing for people

[strong sun]

Would it be possible to add an effect to a joker where it can actively destroy the played hand itself? Like Immolate's effect

[heady dock]

i mean you currently could probably just destroy every individual card when its scored to get something close to that

[heady frost]

something like this may work if thats what you mean

[strong sun]

Okay, that tracks

[heady frost]

i need to make some proper docs haha

one day...

[sour spear]

it would be nice when if joker is triggered, play custom sound effect to replace the default joker trigger

[heady frost]

very good idea actually, i was thinking about adding a new type of blocks "cosmetic blocks" that allows sounds or animations to be played https://github.com/Jayd-H/joker-forge/issues/76

but that would be after all the main functionality is done

[flat valve]

that's fair but i feel like (aside from python) lua is one of the simplest coding languages to pick up, and aside from actually writing the code the skills you need to get a joker working are the exact same you would need to get it running in a visual editor. not to mention exporting from a site and moving that mod into your mods folder for every change is a much MUCH slower way of debugging than having your git repo rigged directly to your mods folder and making changes in there

so whether it's actually more accessible than putting efforts into the VERY incomplete smods docs or into good modding tutorials, i'm not sure

[heady frost]

not everybody wants to learn code. i think you are overestimating peoples desire to learn programming because you yourself like it.

again, i think you are just thinking about it from your perspective because you know how to code

[flat valve]

wanting to mod and not liking programming are kind of antithetical i feel

[heady frost]

and it is not the exact same skills between coding and putting 3 blocks together

[heady frost]

some people are artists, wanting to see their art in a balatro mod. some people just want to make silly mods to have fun with their friends

wanting to mod is wanting to create, wanting to code is wanting to code

[flat valve]

there are plenty of programmers in need of art

i make art for people and they're willing to do prs on my own mod

[heady frost]

and there is more to creating something as simple as a balatro mod than just writing code, its debugging, finding the specific code you want, atlas creation, etc.

[flat valve]

you wouldn't be able to debug if you couldn't code either

something breaks with your jokerforge mod? good luck

[heady frost]

it is a lot easier to debug than to write from scratch. also, when it is all done, debugging should not even be a concern of the user

[flat valve]

i don't want to be negative but i feel like if you're going solo on a mod you kind of have to program, there's not much getting around it

[flat valve]

i spend probably about as much time debugging as i do writing new code lol

[heady frost]

you might be a bad programmer then haha

[flat valve]

i have a joker done in 5/10 minutes and then i spend 20 minutes fixing it

[heady frost]

i have literally already proven that with what i have already with jokerforge

you say you dont want to be negative, but you are just hating with zero basis. like i said, in what world is making a tool like this a bad thing

[flat valve]

just not that familiar with lua to be honest

[heady frost]

at the end of the day, no tool is better than just straight up coding. but making these things more accessible is never a bad thing

[flat valve]

you can't say 0 basis when i've given the basis of my criticism. similar tools exist for minecraft, for example, and mcreator mods are more unstable and resource-intensive than manually coded mods

[flat valve]

it's the same thing with say, sheet music. people say the notation is too obscure, they try and reinvent it, and inevitably get a lesser result

[heady frost]

1. minecraft is a lot more involved than balatro when it comes to modding
2. none of the 'top' mods for minecraft will be created with mcreator anyways
3. you are still only looking at it from your perspective, it really is not a big deal, you are hating for no reason

[heady frost]

i think guitar tabs have helped a lot of people learn guitar, would you say get rid of them because they made learning guitar more accessible without having to know sheet music?

you see where this argument gets you, i just dont know how you can see something that makes something more accessible and dislike it because you already know how to do that thing the less-accessible way

[flat valve]

1. generally, yeah. it's a 3d game, comes with the turf, but balatro modding isn't a breeze as is
2. stalwart dungeons
3. i'm not trying to hate here i'm just doubtful that this is a good onboarding tool

[flat valve]

yeah, sure they can be helpful, but they absolutely have their limitations, and switching from tabs to reading proper notation is in fact a struggle for a lot of beginners

[heady frost]

compared to minceraft and other games ive modded, balatro is by far the easiest, that is why i wanted to make this

i feel like you are just arguing for the sake of arguing, if you dont like it, dont use it haha its not harming anyone

[flat valve]

yeah it's that until someone tries something more complicated and they have to rewrite their entire codebase because it's auto-generated code and they don't understand a word of it

[slate glen]

yooo random chance is here

now I can nerf one of my commons

[heady dock]

if youre trying to do something more complicated why wouldn't you just code it from scratch?

like thats just not what this is for

[heady frost]

you know lua coding still exists right?

[heady frost]

pretty please tell me if you find any errors with it, i had to rewrite a lot of stuff to make it work lol

[slate glen]

will do

wait can I destroy played cards yet

[flat valve]

and if you, as a jokerforge user, wanted to do something that jokerforge couldn't do you wouldn't have a clue

[slate glen]

i can’t remember if that was in or not

[heady frost]

yes, "destroy triggered card" its exclusive to the card scored trigger

[heady frost]

you are just hating to hate man. it is not for people that want to make something extravagent, or the next cryptid. its just for fun little mods

[slate glen]

also I just wanna say, I have approx 200 hours of modded Balatro, and I can’t code for shit

using joker forge to make a mod with 40 jokers that work perfectly, which me and a few mates are now playing, has been fantastic

i am very grateful for the opportunity to do this

[heady frost]

thank u that means a lot

[flat valve]

plus, you said it yourself. balatro is an easy game to mod, if people can't program or can't stick it out to learn a fairly easy language, very few of them are likely to finish a mod

not none, clearly

but few

[slate glen]

The UI is set up in a way that essentially gives me all the fun of modding without worrying about the programming aspect

[heady frost]

why is finishing a mod so important lol

[heady dock]

its a simplistic mod creation tool, its not made to do entirely custom code and effects. the fact that it cant do literally everything that can be done with coding doesnt make it bad

[heady frost]

do you think that once jokerforge is finished, every single mod imaginable will use it? ofcourse not

[flat valve]

i'm not saying it's bad, that's not my argument

i'm just saying that a project can never outgrow jokerforge

[heady dock]

then what point are you even making??

[heady frost]

i dont get how you can even have an argument against a tool that helps with modding

[heady dock]

and how is that an issue?

[heady frost]

its literally a net positive

if a person wanted to make something that jokerforge was not capable of, they wouldnt use jokerforge

its not like some rocket science lol

[slate glen]

i think it’s a given that you will always be able to do more when interacting with Lua directly than via Joker Forge

[flat valve]

inevitably you're going to get people starting with jokerforge becuase it's beginner-friendly, and then they end up stuck on it when they want to do something a bit more out there, and then they give up

[heady frost]

yeah, even if i made 1000 new effects and conditions, manually programming will always be superior

[slate glen]

I’m ngl

[flat valve]

it's a collaborative community, there's always programmers needing artists and artists needing programmers. if you can't program find someone who can

[slate glen]

there’s only one cryptid

[heady frost]

i would argue the opposite completely, i think learning balatro modding is a bit annoying, and the fact that jokerforge will have a repetoire of code blocks for different effects and stuff will help people understand it more

[slate glen]

i think most people who wanna mod balatro just wanna make a few jokers, not the next Ortalab

[heady frost]

exactly

[heady dock]

if someone wants to make something "a bit more out there" then they wouldn't use jokerforge for that. i think its reasonable to assume that people using it will have a rough understanding of what it is capable of

[heady frost]

in other news i will try and add the ability to export individual jokers now lol

[slate glen]

if someone wants to make something more out there, chances are they’ve done it already lmao

balatro is not a new game anymore

[flat valve]

there's plenty of people trying to get into modding even now

i regular #⚙・modding-general and you get tons of newbies, like 2-3 on the daily

[heady frost]

well send them here lol

[flat valve]

i would honestly rather point them to the modding starter pack

[heady frost]

(which im there)

[heady dock]

depends on if they can code in lua

[flat valve]

you can't get around not knowing what you're doing

i couldn't code in lua before i started modding this game

i likely would not have gotten far with a mod if i knew about jokerforge

[heady frost]

people have, you already can, theres many jokers you can make already. plus, its nowhere near done, i have much bigger plans than whats already here

[heady dock]

"likely would not have" is quite different from "wont"

and that also seems like more of a personal issue than anything

[flat valve]

learning lua was a fun experience that i wouldn't want to have deprived myself of

i don't think it is you know

if you're willing to take such a large shortcut as not coding you aren't going to get far

[heady frost]

yeah, i think if i didnt know how to program, i would find joker forge more motivating than not. knowing theres decent code samples for a bunch of effects and conditions i wanna look at

[heady frost]

making balatro mods is not the hardened, veteran-only sport that you think it is. its just for fun

[flat valve]

c'mon you can't say that when VanillaRemade exists

i literally am not a veteran, i've been at it for a month man

[slate glen]

ngl imma make my mod 150 jokers so I can play it standalone

and nobody can stop me 😈

[icy crow]

I made one joker here and got motivation to code more in Lua (after looking at the code it generated)

[flat valve]

don't try and strawman me into being an elitist because i'm not

[heady dock]

well if you find learning lua fun then you would just learn lua

[heady frost]

im gonna replicate every vanilla joker, edition, enhancement, deck, and stake, all in joker forge. then i can finally play balatro

[flat valve]

i would not have started with learning lua if jokerforge existed at the time

kind of a circular argument

[slate glen]

i did comp sci at a level and learned very quickly that proper coding sucks

[icy crow]

i think it depends on the person

[heady dock]

jokerforge didnt exist at that time so you dont really have proof of that at all

thats just an assumption

[heady frost]

well i am happy that joker forge looked like this whilst you were learning lua haha

[heady frost]

leave coding up to the nerds honestly

[flat valve]

i'm not trying to say it's a completely useless project or anything

[heady frost]

you have just spent the last 30 minutes trying to do that

[flat valve]

but this is exactly the kind of thought process i think is caustic to balatro modding

[heady dock]

literally that is exactly what youre saying

[heady dock]

like right here

[flat valve]

idk what to even tell you

[slate glen]

but like, what do you do if you don’t wanna code, but still wanna make a mod

[heady frost]

you are hating just to hate man, not only are you not saying its useless, you are saying that a tool that does nothing but help is actively bad

[slate glen]

this is the target demographic joker forge is aiming at

[flat valve]

i've made it pretty clear what my specific concerns are

idk does ai help people make art? it's certainly easier

[heady frost]

ai is not related at all to what joker forge does

it is entirely deterministic, ai is not

[heady dock]

it does not help people make art, it generates images for people through a system that literally nobody actually understands

its as much of making art as commissioning someone

[heady frost]

you have come in here just to shit on my work when you havent even read a single line of code of it to understand what it is actually doing

[slate glen]

the artistic equivalent of joker forge would be like

[flat valve]

no, it's not, but where exactly does the "ai is accessible" and "jokerforge is accessible" argument diverge

[slate glen]

instead of having to paint, it’s a jigsaw

you’re putting the pieces together

[heady dock]

ai is an entirely different program and system at its core maybe?

[flat valve]

then would you argue that completing a jigsaw is art? i would not

[heady frost]

this is a terrible argument. they are completely different things. false equivelant in its entirety. nukes make it more accessible to kill thousands of people, joker forge makes it accessible to make balatro mods. where does "nukes are accessible" and "jokerforge is accessible" argument diverge?

[flat valve]

ok here
it does not help people make art mods, it generates images jokers for people through a system that literally nobody the end user doesn't actually understands

[slate glen]

well, that’s not exactly true

[heady frost]

you can rewrite a sentence so they are similar, does not mean the core of what they are are similar at all

[flat valve]

this is, ironically, also a false equivalency

[slate glen]

the user still has to provide appropriate instructions to make the joker function in the way they’re aiming for

[heady dock]

the end user != everyone, code != images, mods != art

[heady frost]

yes, i was exagerrating your point to show it is false

[heady dock]

the difference is that with art, there is infinite ways to create every infinite possible ideas that the creative mind can comprehend

[heady frost]

AI is non-deterministic, if you put in a prompt one day, it might give you a different answer the next day. jokerforge is entirely deterministic, same input = same output every time

[heady dock]

yet with coding, there is a finite number of ways to create infinite possibilities

[flat valve]

no, it's not a LITERAL equivalency, but if you can't see the similarity here at ALL you're being bad faith with me here

[slate glen]

yeah this is what I meant

creating a joker yourself via joker forge, and asking ChatGPT to make Lua code for a joker, are not the same

[flat valve]

my argument isn't about determinism in the slightest btw i don't know why you're talking about it

[heady frost]

jokerforge is more akin to aseprite than it is to AI generating images for you. with aseprite, you still have to put in the work to get what you want, but aseprite handles all of the stuff like colour palettes, gives you tools like the pen tool, select tool.

[heady dock]

ai literally has random elements and NO documentation because thats 1. literally impossible and 2. nobody actually knows why it works

[flat valve]

no it isn't??? are you serious

[slate glen]

you are essentially stitching chunks of code together

you still have to know the order things need to trigger in etc

[heady dock]

it is quite literally exactly that

[heady frost]

it is much more akin to a drawing program than it is to ai art generation. the thing that makes AI AI is the non-deterministic output

[heady frost]

this is exactly how it works too

[slate glen]

yeah, so like
there is a certain amount of skill in that

[wild pier]

how op is this card.

[flat valve]

i'm not talking about non-deterministic output or whatever. i'm talking about accessibilty specifically

[slate glen]

obviously it’s like 10% compared to real coding

but still, it is something that requires brain power

[heady frost]

needs more mult

[heady dock]

ai requires literally zero effort

joker forge does not

[slate glen]

and they say flush builds aren’t endgame

[heady frost]

if the backend of jokerforge was just the chatgpt api, then you might have a point somewhere

[flat valve]

this is false, and i'm saying that as someone who hates ai

[slate glen]

wait it’s 1 in 25

[heady frost]

but please, go and read the backend code

[wild pier]

yup.

[slate glen]

pretty low, so surprisingly not worth having

[heady dock]

do you have any proof that the basic human ability to formulate a sentence is something that requires even the most miniscule amount of effort

[wild pier]

its legendary and 10 dollars.

[flat valve]

doesn't change a single point i've made at all btw. i'm talking about the utility of jokerforge as an onboarding tool for balatro modding

[heady frost]

genuinely a waste of a joker slot with that joker. even the cryptid joker that is 1/8 chance for a billion mult is not actually that good unless you rig it

or have other ways of manipulating odds or retriggering jokers

[heady dock]

and ai is entirely different, as you arent even doing anything related to the art at all

[slate glen]

yeah exactly, it’s no good if it only triggers once every two antes

[heady dock]

youre just feeding a machine words that it doesnt understand and it pumps out slop based on some algorithm

with some randomness too

[flat valve]

there's levels to using ai for something. ok, let's say using jokerforge to code is like using ai to generate textures for a game, say. does this comparison work for you?

[heady frost]

no

[heady dock]

thats entirely different

[heady frost]

there is NO ai in jokerforge

[flat valve]

becuase one's art and one's programming yeah yeah

[heady frost]

how is that so difficult to understand

[slate glen]

y’all used Scratch in school to program stuff, right?

this is that

this is that, for balatro

[heady dock]

ai has miniscule input and miniscule control over the output

[flat valve]

scratch experience didn't help much when it was time to learn python lol

[heady dock]

whats next? gamemaker visual scripting is the same as using ai?

[flat valve]

are you intentionally being bad faith

like i can put up with it to a point

[slate glen]

gonna have to disagree with that having been down that exact path myself

it was a good introduction to programming

[heady frost]

that is not bad faith, that is exactly your point lmao

[heady dock]

you could maybe actually explain the connection you see between ai and joker forge

[slate glen]

obviously you can’t reinvent the wheel with scratch but it was something

[heady dock]

that would help your argument make an ounce of sense

[flat valve]

the accessibility argument?? that's why i brought it up????

people say ai makes art more accessible

[heady dock]

they say that, but it does not

[heady frost]

send a link to the grab bag mod

[heady dock]

you are literally not making anything

[flat valve]

https://github.com/thefaketh30ne/grab-bag/tree/beta

if you wish

[heady frost]

i will intentionally ensure that everything in grab bag is replicable with jokerforge 😈

[flat valve]

i add stuff to grab bag fairly often

good luck trying to make the record card logic work visually once i add those man. if you really want to be like that about it put your money where your mouth is

[heady dock]

me when coding is different than literal balatro scratch 😱

[flat valve]

holy shit not the point i'm making

come ON

[heady frost]

i will add a button on the home page that just duplicates the grab bag code in its entirety (i wont)

[slate glen]

my modding career is over

I’m going to delete my existing mod with 40 jokers and hop on Animal Crossing

[heady dock]

can you give at least an ounce of clarity omfg what is your actual point

you keep saying entirely different things

[flat valve]

at some point you have to like, read my messages and collate them into the argument that i am making with your reading comprehension skills

[heady frost]

you are being elitist. by your logic, stop programming in lua because it doesnt teach you how a computer works at its core. you should only code in assembly language

matter of a fact, just code in machine code, you arent learning anything valuable by coding in assembly language

[nimble island]

🍿

[heady frost]

actually, just program by manually flipping bits on transistors, words on a screen make it too accessible and you dont understand what you are doing

[slate glen]

it seems like you’re saying that beginners who use joker forge for a bit are suddenly less capable of learning Lua to code properly, should they wish to take it to the next level

[heady dock]

literally all you do is repeatedly state the same concerns/issues/whjatever you call them you have with this. like yeah we get it and clearly none of us care

[heady frost]

actually, if you arent making your own cpu, then how do you really understand how a computer works

[flat valve]

i LIKE seeing what people make. i LIKE it when new people pick up the hobby, i'm SAYING that this isn't where i would send beginners to start modding, and that i would much rather better resources were developed for smods and balatro modding

[heady dock]

yes you have said that like 12 times now

[slate glen]

I don’t really get the logic there though

[heady frost]

yes, you will send them to the modding starter guide.... which is where jokerforge is linked

[flat valve]

then ENGAGE WITH MY ACTUAL ARGUMENT

[heady frost]

oh no!

[slate glen]

My mod is playable - is it not good enough for others, just because it wasn’t coded from scratch?

[heady dock]

i have and you keep procedurally looping your dialogue so theres literally no point

[nimble island]

whats even happening

[heady frost]

we get your argument: you dont like jokerforge because it makes it too accessible to make balatro mods and you want people to go through the hardships of learning to program just so they can make a silly mod for a silly game

[flat valve]

you're being bad faith

[heady dock]

wierd pointless hating

idek anymore

[heady frost]

that is literally your argument lol

you came in here, shit on what ive been doing, said its "caustic" to the balatro modding community, then expect people to understand your reasoning when you have given nothing but personal anecdotes

crazy world we live in

[flat valve]

i help people in #💻・modding-dev like all the time. i never see you in there. i want to make the hobby accessible and i like helping people work things out with their mods

[slate glen]

i would argue you’re being bad faith, by insinuating that Joker Forge won’t be able to eventually cover a decent chunk of avenues that potential modders will want to visit

[nimble island]

there is absolutely no reason to hate on this mod.

[slate glen]

like no, it can’t make Cryptid, but it can already do most actions in base Balatro

[flat valve]

i'm saying that this isn't the way i would do it

[heady frost]

because im not that good with SMODS as otheres are in the server, a lot of the more complex issues that havent already been answered i wouldnt have the answer for them

[nimble island]

I didnt know how to make a mod until this, it just makes my life easier

[heady frost]

that is what ive been saying haha

[slate glen]

why should people have to learn to code “the proper way” just to make a mod?

there’s no test

[heady frost]

balatro modding just is not that deep

[slate glen]

this is just a game

[flat valve]

neither am i, but i help out when i can. i'm not trying to highroad you, but saying i'm elitist is a really fucking weird (and untrue) thing to call me

[heady frost]

you came in here to be elitist, that is what you were doing. you are now trying to highroad me, implying you are doing more for newbies than i am (which is completely unquantifyable)

[slate glen]

then appreciate that in its infancy, joker forge has already attracted beginners who are having a good time?

[smoky trail]

I think @flat valve your argument applies when it comes to building your foundation for something in which you will actually use those skills, I.e, if you’re trying to be a software developer and are using something like scratch (deterministic, same input = same output). It does not apply when people use this tool to easily make things that they are using for entertainment

[heady frost]

if you have an issue with newbies that find it difficult to learn smods, instead of bashing a tool i make in my free time, make some really good and informative smods docs

[heady frost]

yeah, exactly. balatro modding is not some job or something, its just a silly hobby

[toxic aspen]

Ur very level headed @heady frost

[flat valve]

this is fair, i'm here to hone my art and programming skill. if you just want to mod for the hell of it, i get that this is a useful tool

[slate glen]

well there we have it

[heady frost]

honestly guys no bias or anything but i think jokerforge is pretty good

[slate glen]

can we call it a day now

[heady frost]

time to add the AddSealEffect block

[nimble island]

i mean i understand grab bags argument of learning lua and code for a while and then there being an easier way to make all that, but this mod is going to be useful for everyone that didn't want to learn how to code but really wanted to

[slate glen]

hmm, needs more banana

[heady frost]

wait no thats already implemented in edittriggeredcard

[nimble island]

new seals?

[flat valve]

but i mean. is it a bad thing to also pick up programming along the way? you're modifying a game made up of code, might as well interface with it

it's a useful and fun way to teach people that skill

[smoky trail]

Yeah, people aren’t learning lua to necessarily improve their programming skills, they are trying to have fun (made easier by this mod)

[heady frost]

no unforutantely not, i was thinking about tags

[smoky trail]

It’s just not what people want to do

[nimble island]

anything is fine, already with just jokers im having a blast

[heady frost]

thank u guys i really appreciate it. when i started working on it like 2 months ago from an idea i didnt expect people would be actually using it lol

and now that its causing drama i feel honoured lol

[flat valve]

is this drama

[heady frost]

you came in here, shit on my work, said jokerforge was "caustic" to balatro modding. said you would never point newbies to it. then got elitist and tried to highroad me

[flat valve]

i was here to talk about the usefulness of jokerforge as a modding tool, in a community of modders i think it's important to have the discussion

[heady frost]

i dont get why there needs to be a discussion

nobody is forcing you to use jokerforge, it is not gonna replace modding

[smoky trail]

The usefulness is undeniable, you have a difference in use-case for lua that other potential modders don’t

[flat valve]

not what i said by the way. i said that your specific message of "leave coding to the nerds" is a caustic attitude to hold towards balatro modding. really easy to make yourself look good when you completely misrepresent my arguements

[cedar zealot]

sorry Im late but also putting my 2 or 3 cents after reading

john grab bag youre my goat and all but this ain’t the one if im being fr

from what I used of joker forge, it pretty much is just block coding,
which condenses the more complicated things a new person wouldn’t get into something that they CAN understand

while I do see your argument of “theyre not gonna be able to learn anything when it comes to trying it in lua” that’s kind of intended? block coding programs tend to serve as introductions to more advanced concepts made simple and limited, with the intent of (and actual success) providing a sort of “does this look too hard for you? why not start here for now just to get an idea?”

the best example of this is definitely scratch, which basically perfected the formula. as scratch also includes the actual code logic of each block in their IDE in (I think) their wiki(?) heck, I started in scratch like 6 years ago and made a few decent things. what with templates, tutorials, and guides all the like of things explaining why they did what they do. I’ve even carried some of that knowledge over to lua (to an extent of course, it’s a different language) and it did in fact help my understanding of programming.

And even if you don’t want to do anything crazy, and just want to make funny guy that makes big number go whoosh, this is a quick and simple way to do it. it should NOT be the go to for everything, and as far as I know isn’t intended to be.

Im currently swapping out parts of my computer, so I can’t exactly check but from what I remember I do think that the code that does get placed could be commented? (If it is already mb) but you know just things that explain what this means in simple terms

also, youre not forced to use this. the Balatro Modding Starter Pack has a multitude of resources to get started so that you can find something that YOU’LL be comfortable with. this is just another option, not the be all end all.

tldr: you make a fair point but that’s not really what this is though

[nimble island]

holy fuck

[heady frost]

"leave coding to the nerds" is clearly a tongue-in-cheek joke

[slate glen]

yeah he’s a geek not a nerd

[nimble island]

send the venn diagram

[flat valve]

i didn't say jokerforge was caustic to balatro modding either. was that a tounge-in-cheek joke too?

[heady frost]

yeah, never meant to be some insane replacement, just a fun little tool. the code is commented throughout

[heady frost]

your 'joke' was directed as an insult to something i was making. my joke is only an insult to myself (calling myself a nerd)

[cedar zealot]

ok cool mb I couldn’t remember (didnt use it long since Im already doing lua lmao)

[heady frost]

if you come in here saying that you dont like jokerforge, then say it is caustic, ofcourse im going to take that as serious

[flat valve]

didn't say that

go read that message again, carefully this time

[flat valve]

here, i'll even link to it

[nimble island]

carefully this time is crazy

[heady frost]

why are you even arguing?

i dont get it

its a website where you make balatro mods

[heady frost]

i read it, you said "this kind of thinking is caustic" you may be right on that, but still an insult to me

[smoky trail]

Mate, you have a different use case for lua, don’t project it onto people that want to create mods for fun :/

To @flat valve ^

[flat valve]

okay, and calling me an elitist and a highroader is also an insult to me (more directly an insult instead of me saying i don't like your thought process), but that's not rebutting the point i made at all

[slate glen]

fr i just wanted uncommon gros michel

[nimble island]

cant argue with that

[heady frost]

you were being elitist and highroading me. what is the point in coming in here at all

if you dont like jokerforge, why come into the jokerforge channel to start an argument with the guy behind it

i just dont understasnd

you are free to not like it, just dont use it

[slate glen]

time to go in #💻・modding-dev and suggest joker forge to people who are struggling to code and about to give up modding i guess

[flat valve]

i'm passionate about the hobby? i had not very many opinions about jokerforge at all before this discussion

[heady frost]

you already didnt like it before. you came in here to hate

[flat valve]

i poked around and thought "hey this is really clean-looking, but man i feel like this isn't much simpler" and i came in here to make an off-handed comment about

[heady frost]

why

[flat valve]

becuase i'm a person on the internet with an opinion? what do you want me to say to that

i don't hate you or your project man

[heady frost]

why do you feel the need to share a negative opinion on something im creating

[flat valve]

i wasn't trying to knock you down a peg either

[heady frost]

what if someone dmed you about grab bag and said that it was not good, and that it is bad to the balatro modding community. ofcourse that is going to hurt a bit

there is just no need man

[flat valve]

people have said my mod isn't great a few times and i take it on the chin

[heady frost]

so do i but why do you feel the need to say it at all

[flat valve]

becuase i had concerns about it as an alternative to learning lua?

the entire point i've been making??

[heady frost]

nobody has ever claimed that ever

you made that claim up, then got angry about it lol

[flat valve]

or, more, learning balatro modding through lua

[flat valve]

that's what this exact message says in plain english

[flat valve]

operative word here is "i". i think this shouldn't be the first option for most people wanting to mod the game. that's not me saying it's useless

[nimble island]

can you just stop trying to make things harder, for beginners at modding like me, we love jokerforge. but you're saying it's too easy or something and we should learn lua instead. The point of this entire mod is that it's more accessible and you are opposed to it ig?

[heady frost]

nobody is claiming that. its just a fun tool, not that deep

[flat valve]

we were all beginners once, the game's a year old and the modding scene as it exists today is much younger

[toxic aspen]

What does that even mean

[flat valve]

clearly there are beginners here, and i think some (not all) of them would be better served starting with code

[cedar zealot]

but they don’t wanna

[nimble island]

what if i dont want to watch 12 videos of how to code lua and download so many files and I just want to do this

[heady frost]

not everyone wants to learn lua to make balatro mods. i feel like we are running in circles because you cant think of other peoples perceptions

[flat valve]

SOME

did you notice i put the phrase SOME (NOT ALL) in my message

[nimble island]

THEN TALK TO THEM HOLY SHIT

NOT US

[slate glen]

you’re not gonna get many takers in here

joker forge fans only

[heady frost]

the ones that want to learn lua, will learn lua. the ones that dont want to or dont care will use jokerforge. it is not one or the other. jokerforge existing does not mean lua programming dissapears overnight

[heady frost]

yeah you are better off discussing in modding-chat because you might get some back up

[flat valve]

no, they won't dissappear, and that's not what i'm saying

[heady frost]

i dont even mind you saying jokerforge is bad if its in modding-chat, but you came here to say it which makes it feel mean

[nimble island]

plot twist: grab bag created lua

[slate glen]

anyway tag creation when

i want me some rare joker gacha

[heady frost]

i keep getting distracted lmao

without this drama jokerforge would have the ability to create grab bag by now. this was their master plan

[nimble island]

op stop focusing on grab bag and keep improving your mod

[flat valve]

i was here to say that i was impressed with the site but i don't know of its efficacy as a beginner tool

[flat valve]

*their

what

[nimble island]

SHIT SORRY

[flat valve]

discord has pronouns right there

[nimble island]

WRONG MESSAGE LMAO

[heady frost]

i do not click on peoples profiles, my apologies

[flat valve]

it's np, i didn't think of it as intentional

[nimble island]

well not lmao thats unfortunate

im done this doesnt involve me

[slate glen]

quit laughing your ass off right now

laugh it back on again

[nimble island]

im deleting it sorry

its for someone else

[slate glen]

chat we’re not addressing the real issue at hand here

[flat valve]

nothing against you at all, if you ever want sample joker art or sprite edits anything i'd be happy to help on that front (like i know anything about webdev lol)

[slate glen]

what does the joker in Eao’s pfp do

[nimble island]

the tags

[nimble island]

WELL YOU SEE...

[slate glen]

well no I do not see

[nimble island]

download and import for the mod

all of it

then delete it after you see it so only i can have it...

[slate glen]

damn that's pretty good

[nimble island]

yeah?

[slate glen]

it's too late

i have already thieved you

jk

[nimble island]

this was your plan all along wasnt it

[slate glen]

i am probably gonna steal that effect though

i can't help it

it's good

[nimble island]

which one

[slate glen]

and it's not like you copyrighted it

[nimble island]

no i did

[slate glen]

a legendary creating negative rares is fire

[heady frost]

i have nothing against you either. you are clearly passionate about coding, like i am, i respect that. it was a heated discussion but at the end of the day it doesnt mattter too much and we both like the same things

[slate glen]

probably not quite as often though

maybe when boss blind is defeated

[nimble island]

THE TAGS MAN! THE TAGS!

[heady frost]

if you want you can submit a placeholder joker and i will add it to the list lol

[nimble island]

fair

[heady frost]

SIR YESSIR

[slate glen]

submits the entirety of Grab Bag

[nimble island]

tbh i thought they were correcting a punctuation mistake i didnt even read the message im dumb

[heady frost]

TAGS HAVE BEEN ADDED AS AN EFFECT

[nimble island]

damn that was fast

holy

whats your average typing speed

[heady frost]

let me know if you find any issues with specific tags created, i tested a lot of them but i had to guess some of the ids

[heady frost]

100wpm, i was working on it inbetween the arguing tho i just needed to test some stuff

so it looks faster than it was

[nimble island]

still double mine

[heady frost]

but also ive set my code up in a way where adding new effects and conditions is very easy for me to do aslong as i have a nice example of how that effect is done

which vanilla remades diet cola was perfect for

[nimble island]

I changed one of my jokers from having to create a diet cola to creating a double tag ts is awesome

[heady frost]

lets goooooo

[nimble island]

you should make a google doc with all the things you're working on for this mod, like a spreadsheet. some modders do it and make ideas for jokers before coding all of them.

[slate glen]

TAGSSSSSSS

[heady frost]

good idea actually, the readme does have a checklist but i need to update it lol. usually i track things i need to work on in the github issues section.

https://github.com/Jayd-H/joker-forge/issues

as u can tell, i got my work cut out for me haha

[nimble island]

how long do you think consumables will take estimated

[slate glen]

think he said about a month earlier

[nimble island]

oh k

[nimble island]

can i see some of your jokers?

if you made any

[slate glen]

man i ain't falling for that one

jk

[nimble island]

shieeey

[slate glen]

bro gon steal me jokers

enjoy

this is one of two mods, but this is my main one

wanna try and get it to 150

[meager ginkgo]

Fuck yeah

I love it when programmers make tools for us plebians

🔥🔥🔥

[nimble island]

holy shit you did 33

HAMILTON DID THE OTHER 51

[slate glen]

😂

[nimble island]

lmao

this is peak

but i dont want it

[slate glen]

it's for my community really

group of friends, lot of inside jokes here

[nimble island]

The offer is off

[nimble island]

thats cool

[slate glen]

this is easily my favorite effect

[nimble island]

why does it say sped

[slate glen]

i don't think i've seen it in another mod

but i could be wrong

probably am wrong

[nimble island]

no its original

ive downloaded over 30 mods

[flat valve]

i have something similar with xmult

[nimble island]

sorry no its plaigiarism herbie

[slate glen]

i've been had

[flat valve]

i change my mod all the time to stop overlap lol

[slate glen]

meh

i will shamelessly steal some

but my mod is not for public consumption so that's fine imo

[flat valve]

that's fair, as someone with a public-facing mod if it's overlap with a mod people are likely to play with my own i'd rather take it out

[slate glen]

would not dream of tryna take credit for other people's work

but for just me and my mates, meh

just made this one, unsure on balancing

aura isn't that great, but at the same time, do i want higher odds for it

[flat valve]

it's about 1 card edition a round if you play around it

[slate glen]

hmm

maybe it's fine then

[flat valve]

i think that's fine for an uncommon, but spectral packs are otherwise the only way to get card editions

[slate glen]

def feels too powerful to be a common

not consistent enough to be a rare

[flat valve]

yeah you'd have to put it down to about a 1 in 5 for it to be a balanced common imo

[slate glen]

also got this one for consumable creation

i liked the idea of a wheel before the wheel

sorry i'm just shamelessly joker dumping in forge chat now, my bad

[flat valve]

on average, it takes 5 rounds for this to hit once, or 2 antes with a skip

[slate glen]

back to quietly finding new bugs

[flat valve]

it might be a common

[slate glen]

i'll make it common for now

ty

[flat valve]

np

but can you imagine the potential...

[slate glen]

yeah i've seen another one like that

gains 0.5 xmult when wheel fails

bunco?

[flat valve]

maybe?

i thought that was cryptid's wheel of hope but i don't play much crpytid

it used to be +30 chips but now fortune-related grab bag things also scale it

[nimble island]

im trying to make a consumable that boosts your mult by x5 but you have a 1/10 chance to destroy all your jokers (including itself) after every round

[nimble island]

yeah it is

[slate glen]

naughty

[nimble island]

btw (and i wont stop saying this) on friday I beat drspectred in pokermon multiplayer on stream and it was a charity stream. he donated $100 to TENT after i beat him

my best brag

[slate glen]

multiplayer eh

i used to be a mod there

that's my best brag

but then it got too big for me to keep up

[heady dock]

what are these doing here, i didnt make them and the joker doesnt have any probabilities

[nimble island]

wow thats a huge server

[heady dock]

joker slots and consumable slots should be added to passive effects

probably some other stuff but i cant think of any

oh shop slots probably

[nimble island]

whats the full image?

[nimble island]

does it change anything about the joker

[heady dock]

what does

[wispy fog]

is handsize an option yet, it'd make a Joker im coding for my mod way easier

[nimble island]

the variable

[nimble island]

yeah

[heady frost]

definitely agree

[heady dock]

no, they just appear here and thats it

[heady frost]

yes but i think it may be broken

[heady dock]

they dont show up anywhere in the edit tab

[heady frost]

if your joker has probability, those are the variable tags for it

oh wait

i just had a look

[heady dock]

it doesnt have probability

[heady frost]

remaining and random

wth

[slate glen]

wasn't when i was about, was like 2k members back then

[heady frost]

send json lol

[heady dock]

remaining is the one i made btw

[flat valve]

hand size is really annoying tbh i can see why its only got partial support

[heady dock]

here it is

[heady frost]

hopefully i will get all the passive effects done in one big go, its annoying because it doesnt follow the usual code gen pipeline

[heady dock]

though i think it might be because i clicked the probability group thing on accident and then deleted it

and now the variables are just there

[heady frost]

i think it is just making variables out of thin air

will have a deeper look at it tomorrow but i see the issue

[nimble island]

its become sentient

[heady frost]

tomorrow i also want to get lots of effects done and add the ability to export individual jokers as code

[meager ginkgo]

is there a way to make a joker not perishable compatible

[heady frost]

no, not at the moment, i will add it to the list tho thats a good idea

[nimble island]

i thought eternal also meant perishable and rental, like all the bad effects

[flat valve]

you can set seperate compat

[heady frost]

yeah it shouldnt be a hard addition

https://github.com/Jayd-H/joker-forge/issues/83

[flat valve]

if you want to do it manually just add perishable_compat = false as a variable in your SMODS.Joker

same with eternal_compat = false

[meager ginkgo]

sob

i was going to play with this but none of my joker concepts work 😭

[slate glen]

yo

@heady frost i think my destroyed card is taunting me from beyond the grave

[flat valve]

scary ghost cards

this happens if you destroy cards in an improper context iirc

[heady dock]

okay so this might be an issue

maybe dont let the inspector be as tall

[nimble island]

what were some of them

[nimble island]

i thought that was just me lol

no polychrome for me ig

[heady frost]

haha no way. i usually develop on a 1440p screen i cant believe i didnt think of this. you are right i should add a set limit

i can do that now actually

[heady dock]

okay currently i can fix it by making my browser window thin

[nimble island]

its the new invisible rarity dw

[heady frost]

will look into this, very scary

[slate glen]

new edition just dropped

[meager ginkgo]

1. joker that gains xmult when a card changes at all (edition, rank, suit, seal, enhancement, etc)
2. joker that destroys a random card in hand on scoring a stone card
3. joker that doubles break probability but increases xmult of spade/club glass jokers
4. joker that gains xmult when your played hand has exactly 21 chips

[heady frost]

these are all very good effects i should add to the checklist

[flat valve]

i can help with some of these outside of jokerforge

[nimble island]

good and not too outlandish but there are still more things you could come up with, with the things there already is

[flat valve]

the only one that's difficult is 1, because i think you would have to hook/patch every function that modifies cards, which is a lot of them

[heady dock]

im pretty sure challenger deep and entropy have stuff that tracks the sum of the ranks of all played cards, could possibly be useful for that last one

[heady frost]

ill keep that in mind when i go for it then. will probably be lower priority because i wanna get all of the vanilla stuff working first

https://github.com/Jayd-H/joker-forge/blob/main/README.md

updated the checklist though, if you can think of any others dont be afraid to tell me lol

[heady dock]

i think an option for any of the destroying effects to instead destroy all cards in the area would be good to have

[heady frost]

yeah, this can be integrated with a different destroy playing card effect, i plan for it to be able to have a bunch of parameters like this. would be so fire

[heady dock]

also there should be a card edition condition since there is one for all the other properties

[flat valve]

here's the calculate function for 2, including comments. if this doesn't work ping me

calculate = function(self, card, context)
    if context.before then
        local has_stone = false
        -- check for a stone card in scoring hand
        for _, playing_card in ipairs(context.scoring_hand) do
            if SMODS.has_enhancement(context.other_card, 'm_stone') then
                has_stone = true
                break
            end
        end
        -- if there is a stone card in hand, flag a random card as a card to be destroyed
        if has_stone == true then
            local chosen_card = pseudorandom_element(context.full_hand, pseudoseed("seed_name_here"))
            chosen_card.ability.to_destroy = true
        end
    end  
    -- destroy marked card
    if context.destroy_card and context.destroy_card.ability.to_destroy == true then
        return {
            remove = true
        }
    end
end

[heady frost]

there isnt one?

no way

[heady dock]

yeah appaently not lmao

[heady frost]

baller energy

i can probably add that in real quick after i fix this inspector height stuff lol

that would be easy

[flat valve]

3 requires a hook or a patch afaik, but 4 is very doable

in fact, i have done it, including ace as 1 or 11 detection

[meager ginkgo]

where do i put this

[nimble island]

i literally asked that so many times when i was learning how to mod balatro

[flat valve]

replaces the entire calculate function in the exported SMODS.Joker object, you should be able to do the description and property settings in jokerforge and just not do any of the calculate logic

[meager ginkgo]

where do i find the calculate section

[heady frost]

calculate = function(self, card, context) where it says that, that part is the calculate function

[meager ginkgo]

yeah i mean where do i find the place to put it

[flat valve]

SMODS.Joker is just a big table of stuff seperated by commas basically, you can just insert any number of entries in any order like so

[meager ginkgo]

gotcha

[heady frost]

this has been fixed

[nimble island]

finally shiny cards

[meager ginkgo]

where do i find the SMODS.Joker

[icy crow]

main.lua

[meager ginkgo]

how do i open a lua file

[icy crow]

normal text editor

notepad for example

[meager ginkgo]

ah gotcha

[icy crow]

or vscode

[meager ginkgo]

thanks

[flat valve]

it's better to use vscode but that takes a bit of setup

[heady dock]

notepad works but i would recommend something like notepad++ or vsc for coding stuff though

[icy crow]

highlighting is nice

[flat valve]

yeah 100%

[nimble island]

Ive been meaning to ask, @heady frost did you use js for the website

[heady frost]

typescript but yes basically

[nimble island]

cool

[heady frost]

literally everything is done in typescript lol

[flat valve]

here's no. 4, quite a bit more complex

    calculate = function(self, card, context)
        if context.joker_main then
            local rank_sum = 0
            local ace_count = 0
            for _, playing_card in pairs(context.full_hand) do
                -- tallies the base chips of all scored and unscored cards and the number of aces
                if not SMODS.has_no_rank(playing_card) then
                    rank_sum = rank_sum + playing_card.base.nominal
                end
                if playing_card:get_id() == 14 then
                    ace_count = ace_count + 1
                end
            end
            -- checks for all possible combinations of aces as 1s and 11s
            for i = 1, ace_count + 1 do
                -- less than 21
                if rank_sum < 21 then
                    return {
                        message = rank_sum .. "",
                        colour = G.C.FILTER
                    }
                -- exactly 21, here's where the xmult gain happens
                -- you would also need to add config = { extra = { xmult = 1, xmult_mod = [however much you want to add to xmult] } } into SMODS.Joker
                elseif rank_sum == 21 then
                    card.ability.extra.xmult = card.ability.extra.xmult + card.ability.extra.xmult_mod
                    return {
                        xmult = card.ability.extra.xmult = card.ability.extra.xmult + card.ability.extra.xmult_mod
                    }
                -- change one ace from counting as 11 to counting as 1
                else
                    rank_sum = rank_sum - 10
                end
            end
            -- only runs if all aces count as 1s and hand chips is still higher than 21
            return 
                {
                    message = "Bust!",
                    colour = G.C.RED
                }
        end
    end

[heady frost]

i dont even like the language that much but its a necessity

[heady frost]

just added this, should be live !!!

[flat valve]

if you only want to count scoring cards, use context.scoring_hand instead of context.full_hand

[nimble island]

im not used to consistant updates from modders this is amazing

[heady frost]

i am quite quick lol

but tbf both changes were easy ones, the random chance stuff took me basically all day lol

[heady dock]

C:dark_edition (edition text effect) should be added to color options. idk if visualising it in the editor would work but would still be a good option to have there

okay idk if its dark_edition or just edition anymore

the code uses dark_edition though

[heady frost]

good point, i will add it to the todo list

tomorrow i wanna hammer out so many little things and wittle down the issues so that will be a tomorrow job

i also want to revamp the UI (not the rulebuilder stuff i like that) but i dont know web design lmao

[keen glade]

Theres a list of all the color options https://github.com/Steamodded/smods/wiki/Text-Styling

[flat valve]

would be cool to have a colour picker for variable colours

[heady frost]

i wanna maybe also add a custom one, like with a colour wheel

[heady dock]

oh wait adding tooltips to stuff through the editor could also be a good thing to add at some point

[heady frost]

and at some point i want to make a button that can auto generate descriptions based on the rules you have defined (will not be as good as manually writing it, but gives you a good base to start with)

[heady frost]

this will probably come alongside when i have time to make proper documentation

i wanna make the docs a mix between actual smods knowledge, and more in depth explanations on how jokerforge generates the code it does

aswell as how build upon the code yourself

[flat valve]

you would need to probably add a search function for info_queue integration, the keys of some vanilla objects are counterintuitive

[heady frost]

but docs take a good while to make

[heady frost]

yeah, i want to make it real nice and polished lol

[flat valve]

at least you can scrape the localisation files for key/name pairs

theoretically you could do the same locally for any mod with a localisation file

[keen glade]

-# j_ring_master

[heady dock]

probably wouldnt be used a lot, but balancing score (like plasma deck) could be added as an effect at some point

[flat valve]

i think that's actually really easy to implement

you just return { balance = true } in calculate

[heady frost]

tbf if it's that easy I'll add it tomorrow lol

[heady dock]

does that also just work if its done before the end of scoring, like cryptid sync catalyst

[flat valve]

yeah i think so

if you wanted to make it the last thing to happen you can always just do it in context.final_scoring_step

[young relic]

erm

[heady frost]

that is strange, will have a look tomorrow

[heady dock]

also, is splitting context.jokers_main to its own option currently planned

[nimble island]

I also think it would be a cool addition if we could make the little pixel art for the icon of the mod

instead of having the default uncommon joker icon

[heady frost]

i scrapped this because hand played is jokers main, i made "when jokers finish scoring" which uses the after hand context, you can reset variables and stuff there

[heady dock]

what about the things that happen before scoring? like space joker or square joker scaling

[heady frost]

then you would use hand played for joker main context. i could make a trigger for context.pre_joker or context.before though

[heady dock]

those two could be added later on probably, they arent extremely important but could have some uses

[heady frost]

yeah, the thing with adding triggers is its very easy to actually code into jokerforge, its just you dont know how many effects and conditions are compatible out of the box

im currently experimenting with updates to the joker cards styling because i just dont like it that much

[hidden oriole]

that looks the sme as you did ctr+r with debugmode while card is being scored

[young relic]

i'm probably doing this wrong

[real hill]

this is awesome actually

[young relic]

uh

trying to use a variable for chance doesn't work properly

[heady frost]

that is a crazy method i never even thought of doing that but fair enough haha

i ll take a look at it tomorrow

wondering what you guys would think of a potential colour/styling change

[young relic]

was trying to make the denominator change depending on how many jokers there are

[heady frost]

actually a fire idea