Remove Tag Mechanism, or, Improve Tags & Auto-Display Next Ante's Tags Prior to 1st Buy | Balatro | Page 1

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 1:06 AM

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Hello!

According to @nocturne obsidian and @zealous heart and several others, Tags are objectively bad, and only one or two are actually occasionally useful. I would rather not see "traps" for players, so, if they are correct in their assertions, I'd heartily suggest removing the Tag mechanism (or improving the tags).

Or,

If they are not correct in this assessment, (or if they are, and the Tags are at some point improved)....then I would suggest this UI change: https://discord.com/channels/1116389027176787968/1349426475203563551 , giving players a preview of the new Ante's tags, without going to a menu's subtab. If they're important enough to exist, then they're important enough to plan around and be auto-displayed to the user, so they may make informed purchases without going into a sub-menu.

Thanks!

fallow kayak Mar 13, 2025, 1:10 AM

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I dont think we should remove tags entirely but improving them is 100% a lot better

nocturne obsidian Mar 13, 2025, 1:10 AM

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they could be improved, but the ultimatum given in that other suggestion was bad

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removal vs improvement is a better suggestion than making a niche QoL fix versus fucking deleting them

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 1:11 AM

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this is diabolical levels of meatriding 😭🙏

nocturne obsidian Mar 13, 2025, 1:12 AM

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quaint forge Hello! According to <@582710140004859925> and <@215138757085626368> and several...

i like this new suggestion, but for the love of god drop the idea of that QoL fix

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tags need to be improved, but displaying the next ante's tags (something that can happen 7 times a run) in one less click is not the answer

fallow kayak Mar 13, 2025, 1:16 AM

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There was a cool joker suggestion that makes it where after skipping you still go to the shop

nocturne obsidian Mar 13, 2025, 1:16 AM

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fallow kayak There was a cool joker suggestion that makes it where after skipping you still g...

honestly sounds useful

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given you only really skip in early antes

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and thats when you need jokers

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although

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it does just make small blind useless past white stake

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since it gives no money

fallow kayak Mar 13, 2025, 1:17 AM

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Yisss

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Its still a cool suggestion

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 1:30 AM

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nocturne obsidian tags need to be improved, but displaying the next ante's tags (something that ca...

Or optimally, zero clicks. If they're important enough to affect the game, they're important enough to be auto-shown to you before you start buying at the start of the Ante, instead of after you're done buying.

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And if they're not important enough, make them better, or remove them, else they're just traps!

nocturne obsidian Mar 13, 2025, 1:31 AM

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oh great i was doing something else just in time to hear you whine again

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lets see here

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 1:31 AM

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^ haters gonna hate

nocturne obsidian Mar 13, 2025, 1:32 AM

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they are shown to you

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once you start the ante

glass blaze Mar 13, 2025, 1:32 AM

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you know you can check the tags in the menu, right?

nocturne obsidian Mar 13, 2025, 1:32 AM

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yeah

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he wants them to be shown at all times

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even though its an incredibly niche piece of info

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and i think its not actually shown at all times because theres no jokers that have a direct synergy with tags

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like if Energia from Cryptid was in the base game (joker that adds an extra tag every time you get a tag), sure, show it at all times

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since its an important enough mechanic to get a joker

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but its not, so theres no jokers

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 1:47 AM

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The above is incorrect -- CGNik loves Strawmanning, so, beware. Read actual content for actual requests / suggestions.

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 1:48 AM

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glass blaze you know you can check the tags in the menu, right?

Right, so, either they're important enough to auto-show before the first round of an Ante, or they're not important enough to auto-show after the first round of an Ante.

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 2:48 AM

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quaint forge Right, so, either they're important enough to auto-show before the first round o...

My guy how are you too lazy to press two buttons, it’s not that deep.

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Also you aren’t actually suggesting anything, you’re just saying trash the tags or make them good, which is an extremely general idea

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 2:54 AM

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My guy -- actually listen.

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I know it's extremely fun to just dunk on people and say NOPE! But, listen.

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 3:36 AM

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quaint forge I know it's extremely fun to just dunk on people and say NOPE! But, listen.

People aren’t dunking on you because it’s fun, it’s because your suggestion is to remove a core gameplay feature or to add a stupidly niche idea that was never an issue in the first place

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It’s pretty clear that nobody thinks you are in the right, I just don’t get why you’re pushing this stupid narrative that 2-3 clicks is so hard that it warrants a complete UI change.

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 4:02 AM

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What's pretty clear is this is a very tight echo chamber, which likes to both strawman people's arguments, and lie about their statements.

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For no discernable gain, other than, dunno, feeling like being in a gang?

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Wear your colors proudly.

lucid socket Mar 13, 2025, 4:05 AM

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what actuallu is your argument then

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 4:38 AM

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Tags should either be in the game because they provide an interesting decision, or not because they rarely or never provide an interesting decision.

-- If one believes that it is appropriate for Tags to be BOTH in the game, AND for them also be near-completely useless (with no plans to ever make them useful), then, we have an unreconcilable difference of philosophy. (However, that difference should not exist among people who are highly concerned about game elegance, simplicity, screen clutter, or, strategy traps).

If it is believed that Tags currently are, or in the future will be, a mechanism that provides interesting options, and therefore, directly affect decisions made during the economic portion of the game (i.e. The Shop), then...

The Upcoming Ante's Tag information should either:

a) be presented to the user automatically in some way, like every single other random element in the game that one reacts to in their decision-making (nobody ever said it must be "on screen at all times," or any other extreme UI strawman described here and elsewhere).

or

b) not be available at all to the user, and have it be a Game Design choice that players will not have an Ante's Tag information until after their intial Shopping is complete.

In the case of a), where this is a worthy mechanism that will be a driver of great decisions...without some minor UI amendment that would present this information in some automatic form, even just once, to inform your Shopping...then every player who wants to engage in these interesting decisions, has to, at the start of every Ante, go into a side menu, and hit a secondary tab, just to get this new information.

This automatic, repetitive pressing is exactly the type of thing worthy of being removed in favor of automation.

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 4:41 AM

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quaint forge 1) Tags should either be in the game because they provide an interesting decisio...

can anyone actually translate what is being said here 😭😭😭

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 4:42 AM

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You’re immediate reaction to criticism is strawmanning yet you cherry pick extremely unlikely outcomes

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 4:42 AM

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I remember engaging with the original post at like 8am this morning and it’s been 14 HOURS AND BRO IS STILL ON THIS 😭😭🙏🙏

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 4:42 AM

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Tags are almost never going to affect how you shop, so who cares if you can look at the tags ahead

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 4:43 AM

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We thus have an irreconcilable difference.

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 4:43 AM

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blissful arch Tags are almost never going to affect how you shop, so who cares if you can look...

ive said this before; he will just call you low skill for not using tags “properly”

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lol

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 4:44 AM

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If upgrading tags is what you want, then maybe actually, I don’t know, SUGGEST upgrades for tags?

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It’s almost like we’re in a suggestion tab, not a complain about niche gameplay choices tab

lucid socket Mar 13, 2025, 4:44 AM

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quaint forge 1) Tags should either be in the game because they provide an interesting decisio...

no, i can agree with this; i think the issue is that the original post implied that skip tags should be removed/buffed, OR you should be able to see them more easily, not both

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 4:46 AM

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lucid socket no, i can agree with this; i think the issue is that the original post implied t...

the trouble is you have to recontextualize this entire post with the context of #1349426475203563551 wherein lemonyfresh argues that we need either

a screen between beating the boss blind and entering the post-boss blind shop where you see the next ante’s tags and boss blind
OR
a UI element that shows you that same info during the post boss blind shop

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his reasoning was because that information “is not shown to you”

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 4:47 AM

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lucid socket no, i can agree with this; i think the issue is that the original post implied t...

He never brought it up in his original post about saving clicks though

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 4:47 AM

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zealous heart his reasoning was because that information “is not shown to you”

(which is technically true, you have to click TWO BUTTONS to open the menu to see the next blinds, but it’s such minimal effort that it’s moot entirely)

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everyone else argued “that’s stupid, that information is easily accessible, adding an additional ui element or another screen is ui clutter”

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and thus bro made this post

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ninja aspires to drag it this hard 😭🙏

lucid socket Mar 13, 2025, 4:52 AM

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ok well i didnt read the original post mb

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 4:52 AM

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zealous heart ninja aspires to drag it this hard 😭🙏

He has a whole essay he’s cooking up, get ready

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 4:57 AM

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If the upcoming Ante's Tag information was provided to the user automatically in some form in the current implementation...I would wager that not one of the detractors here would post vehement suggestions to "remove this information and shift it to a secondary tag under a side menu".

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 4:58 AM

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Your ultimatum is a what if scenario?

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Not even some sort of backing claim?

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 4:59 AM

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I do not understand your question about an ultimatum.

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:00 AM

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Your statement is objectively correct, but doesn’t really add anything

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People don’t like change

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But the change is so minor, people don’t think it’s necessary to alter it

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If it was always like that, changing it would just annoy people

lucid socket Mar 13, 2025, 5:01 AM

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i mean if i was making a joker suggestion, and my reasoning for why it should be added to the game is "if it was already in the game you wouldnt be trying to remove it", i would get killed methinks

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:02 AM

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Well, I hope the actual decision-makers; those who wish the game to be the best it can be, do not think in those terms.

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:02 AM

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YOU ARE THINKING IN THOSE TERMS

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YOU LITERALLY JUST CALLED YOURSELF AN IDIOT

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:03 AM

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funniest part is localthunk has already said he has a really short attention span. he will NOT be reading all this

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this shit will get ignored 😭🙏

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:04 AM

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quaint forge If the upcoming Ante's Tag information was provided to the user automatically in...

I would be pretty fucking pissed off if I had to click through some screen before the shop after beating the boss blind

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and visual clutter definitely is not pleasing to look at

lucid socket Mar 13, 2025, 5:05 AM

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i think it could work

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:05 AM

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lucid socket i think it could work

It could, but there’s no real point

lucid socket Mar 13, 2025, 5:05 AM

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but i think some of their arguments are kinda weak

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:06 AM

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zealous heart I would be pretty fucking pissed off if I had to click through some screen befor...

Another Strawman. Zach -- to respond to your earlier point, which was a strawman in itself, I respond to many things as strawmanning, because many things here are.

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:06 AM

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but also the root of a lot of our arguments is that localthunk designed the UI to be the way it is for a reason

if the game was designed to have those cluttering elements already in it, we wouldn’t be saying anything about it

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:06 AM

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quaint forge Another Strawman. Zach -- to respond to your earlier point, which was a strawma...

YOU ARE STRAWMANNING

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:06 AM

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zealous heart but also the root of a lot of our arguments is that localthunk designed the UI t...

because that would mean localthunk’s design philosophy would INCLUDE that visual clutter

lucid socket Mar 13, 2025, 5:07 AM

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quaint forge Another Strawman. Zach -- to respond to your earlier point, which was a strawma...

fallacy fallacy moment

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:07 AM

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I was told in another thread that it was not intended for Tags to be useless

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:07 AM

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zealous heart because that would mean localthunk’s design philosophy would INCLUDE that visual...

and, ergo, removing it would violate the creative direction that localthunk indicated in his design for the game

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blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:07 AM

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quaint forge I was told in another thread that it was not intended for Tags to be useless

you take every single tiny detail and parade it around like it’s a core gameplay aspect

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:08 AM

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Parading?

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:08 AM

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zealous heart and, ergo, removing it would violate the creative direction that localthunk indi...

it is the same argument here — adding this ui element or additional screen is clutter that violates the design philosophy of balatro

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:08 AM

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What is this form of communication?

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:08 AM

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quaint forge What is this form of communication?

if you do not know what the word ‘parading’ means, you should not be arguing about communication

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:08 AM

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quaint forge What is this form of communication?

you are beating the shit out of a horse that never should have died

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:09 AM

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I mean, this is a Suggestion forum with a UI tag avilable, and it's now being argued that things shouldn't change from the original vision.

lucid socket Mar 13, 2025, 5:09 AM

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this is the worst argument ive ever witnessed

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:10 AM

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quaint forge I mean, this is a Suggestion forum with a UI tag avilable, and it's now being ar...

would you put a piece of contemporary art in a renaissance museum?

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:10 AM

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Amen to that

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:10 AM

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you can change the contents of something while respecting its theme

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:10 AM

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quaint forge Amen to that

I would think it means more so about changing what’s already there, instead of tacking on clutter

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:11 AM

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Then, remove the current clutter.

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If you are so clutterphobic

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:11 AM

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Give an example of current clutter

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:11 AM

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The Tags.

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:11 AM

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tags are not clutter in their current state

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:11 AM

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If you believe Saul

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If thee are rarely / never an actual choice, they are clutter.

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:12 AM

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UI Clutter = Core gameplay aspect apparently

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Tags are not bad as is

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They already had an overhaul to improve them

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I’ve won so many games with investment tags and rare tags because tags are not a bad thing.

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:13 AM

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quaint forge If thee are rarely / never an actual choice, they are clutter.

they are rarely a choice, but not never. it doesn’t mean they dont have a role in the game, but it does mean they dont have to be any more front and center than they already are

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:14 AM

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Like, the arguments are going in circles. Every answer to everything you are saying is available in the 3+ bullet points in my response to @lucid socket . And if we're landing in the irrenconcilable difference zone, then, so be it.

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:15 AM

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Wdym we are going in circles

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This is a new argument

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tags are not useless in their current state

lucid socket Mar 13, 2025, 5:16 AM

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ok we dont need to excaggerate, theyre pretty bad

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but as a system, i think they can work

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:16 AM

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Only some are outright terrible

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:16 AM

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All addresssed in the above

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:16 AM

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lucid socket ok we dont need to excaggerate, theyre pretty bad

but they do have a place — econ, anaglyph, rare tags, negatives when you’re solid in your build

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:17 AM

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Lemony

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:17 AM

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they just… do not need to be waved in your fucking face when you finish the boss blind

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:17 AM

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You do realize deleting tags means deleting an entire deck?

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:17 AM

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or crammed into the shop menu

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:17 AM

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I did not say I was in favor of any one of the bullet points

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I am in favor of the entirety of the bullet points

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:18 AM

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what???

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😭😭😭😭

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:18 AM

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What

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:18 AM

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“I am not in favor of [thing], I am in favor of [same exact thing]”

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:18 AM

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Dude is putting the moron in oxymoronic

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:18 AM

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quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:18 AM

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Try to read through what was typed, without emotion, or trying to glean that I favor one position over another

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Just try it

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:18 AM

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post this image to please lemonyfresh42

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:19 AM

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Ok, we're back in the zone of Saul spam

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:19 AM

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quaint forge Try to read through what was typed, without emotion, or trying to glean that I f...

I have many times to understand where you come from

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:19 AM

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G'night all. I appreciate the throughtful engagement.

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:19 AM

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I need to learn Lua to make a mod that flashes all the following skips in your face after defeating each blind

lucid socket Mar 13, 2025, 5:20 AM

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skip tags fnaf jumpscare

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:21 AM

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lucid socket skip tags fnaf jumpscare

it needs a bright flashbang effect

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:21 AM

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There is 0 chance this is getting added tbh

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:21 AM

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to really CATCH your attention

lucid socket Mar 13, 2025, 5:21 AM

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regardless, this argument was mishandled from both sides, leading to a confusion of what the argument was actually about, and pointless finger-pointing over actual discussion

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:21 AM

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blissful arch There is 0 chance this is getting added tbh

realistically nothing in #1155557846805643434 will ever get added. we are all just yelling in a void

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:22 AM

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Sad, but true

zealous heart Mar 13, 2025, 5:22 AM

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i just engaged with this because it is funny to see someone defend a position that is objectively wrong

blissful arch Mar 13, 2025, 5:22 AM

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Thunk said himself he’s not that open to suggestions, so not sure why this is even here

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Welp, this was mildly entertaining

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Bye

fallow kayak Mar 13, 2025, 11:17 AM

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Tags should be buffed but seeing what they are in the next ante isn't enough

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It's not a good suggestion

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This is a suggestions channel, you can't just say "improve this" in the game, you have to give suggestions instead of arguing for like 4 hours on why your original suggestion is good

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Like I said there was a joker suggestion that I like that makes seeing the shop after skipping happen, which is pretty cool, please make more suggestions instead of doing this

prisma sierra Mar 13, 2025, 12:42 PM

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Tags are bad

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They can be useful, they're not useless

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But they almost always hurt your run longterm

noble birch Mar 13, 2025, 12:57 PM

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ESH
Tags need a buff, mouse over run info is fine

balmy crest Mar 13, 2025, 12:58 PM

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I don’t think tags are useless, they’re niche

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The boss tag can come in clutch if you absolutely have no choice

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Investment tag on ante 1 is always a must have

noble birch Mar 13, 2025, 12:59 PM

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I think a mechanic where the player actively ignores for 95% of the time is bad design

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The 5% is investment tag

balmy crest Mar 13, 2025, 12:59 PM

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I’ve also skipped for juggle tag

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Before final boss blinds

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If they’re there ofc

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:05 PM

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Remove Tag Mechanism, or, Improve Tags & Auto-Display Next Ante's Tags prior to 1st Buy

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Remove Tag Mechanism, or, Improve Tags & Auto-Display Next Ante's Tags Prior to 1st Buy

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:07 PM

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lucid socket but as a system, i think they can work

Agreed.

quaint forge Mar 13, 2025, 5:07 PM

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lucid socket regardless, this argument was mishandled from both sides, leading to a confusion...

Agreed.

glass blaze Mar 13, 2025, 5:15 PM

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This is a hot take, but I think skips are inherently flawed as a concept. The shop is the strongest area in balatro, and blinds can also help you scale. Any reward that could be offered to skip one of each will either be not worth it or the obvious pick. Just my opinion though

south cosmos Mar 13, 2025, 5:16 PM

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quaint forge Or optimally, zero clicks. If they're important enough to affect the game, they...

Tbh this is a skill issue pressing run info > blinds is not hard to remember to do. And you only really need to at the start of the ante

glass blaze Mar 13, 2025, 5:17 PM

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With-holding info from the player isn't what I'd call a skill issue, though I can't say I see a need to always provide tag info in the shop

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does the tutorial ever prompt you to go through that menu?

prisma sierra Mar 13, 2025, 5:18 PM

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I still standby this change being meh

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Its a good QoL

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Just feel there's more important changes

glass blaze Mar 13, 2025, 5:19 PM

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I'd say stuff like this is arguably more important than new jokers.

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not this specific suggestion, but just UI/communication in general

prisma sierra Mar 13, 2025, 5:21 PM

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glass blaze I'd say stuff like this is arguably more important than new jokers.

Oh 100%

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But when I say changes I mean both balancing and QoL

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This information is available as soon as you finish a boss blind, and is forced onto you after one shop. There's just other things I'd rather be implemented yknow?

fallow kayak Mar 13, 2025, 5:23 PM

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glass blaze This is a hot take, but I think skips are inherently flawed as a concept. The sh...

Tbh i agree, I think it's just bad design

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Like flawed

glass blaze Mar 13, 2025, 5:24 PM

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I see the idea behind skips, and the risk/reward element sometimes comes into play(investment), but I just don’t think it can really be fixed

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Happy to be proven wrong though

glass blaze Mar 13, 2025, 5:26 PM

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prisma sierra This information is available as soon as you finish a boss blind, and is forced ...

Yeah, the only thing I’d change is maybe have jimbo show you that menu during the tutorial

prisma sierra Mar 13, 2025, 5:28 PM

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glass blaze Yeah, the only thing I’d change is maybe have jimbo show you that menu during th...

Yeah, it's why I haven't noped this idea

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Because i don't disagree, just think it's not very urgent either

balmy crest Mar 13, 2025, 5:28 PM

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The tag system will never be removed, there’s a speedrunner achievement

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There’s also one joker that actually benefits from skipping

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But yeah

noble birch Mar 13, 2025, 5:47 PM

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the tags are introduced as a risk reward mechanic and ended up being obselete because the shop is important

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(also eor)

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so buffing to what extent will it be actually worth to skip the shop

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2 mega buffoon packs? 2 mega celestial packs? 2 spectral packs?

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the only thing that's truly irreplaceable are the booster packs, so will 2 booster packs suffice?

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joker tags should remove all stickers because it's the stickers that cause the tags to be useless in higher stakes most of the time

prisma sierra Mar 13, 2025, 6:06 PM

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noble birch joker tags should remove all stickers because it's the stickers that cause the t...

Agreed

#Remove Tag Mechanism, or, Improve Tags & Auto-Display Next Ante's Tags Prior to 1st Buy