Balatro Modding Wiki [WIP]

[dapper horizon]

Yeah in general a Miraheze wiki's database name (database, as in the Miraheze databases) is [wiki subdomain]wiki, so in the case of the Modded Balatro Wiki it'd probably go as balatromodswiki

[hexed canyon]

ohhh

[dapper horizon]

this will be our excuse so we don't have to change class names lol

[hexed canyon]

yes

i really dont want to lol

[dapper horizon]

same

[hexed canyon]

yay

do you think this is a good way to present this information?

[hexed canyon]

specifically talking about "from Cryptid"

[dapper horizon]

I think remove the "from" and move to the bottom, in a similar manner to how ingame does it

[hexed canyon]

below the joker png, or at the bottom of the entire infobox?

[dapper horizon]

oh, below the png

[hexed canyon]

gotcha

how does this look?

[dapper horizon]

looks pretty good

[hexed canyon]

is it possible to recolor mediawiki links in-line or do you have to do it by stylesheet?

[dapper horizon]

I think you have to do it in stylesheet; browser dev console shows they explicitly define colors for not only links, but links whose pointing site you've already visited
so surrounding a box-bracket link with a span with color style won't work

I came across this problem with Ct as well

solution is to set the following style up:

.bmw-xx a, .bmw-xx a:visited { color: inherit }

, makes a list of selectors to apply the rule to, :visited is a pseudoclass for a elements whose href you've already visited

[dapper horizon]

and then you can surround the box-bracket link with a colored span

[hexed canyon]

thats interesting because it looks different in the rarity stylesheet

[dapper horizon]

ah

[hexed canyon]

although now that i think about it, i see why you wrote it as such

[dapper horizon]

i only just realized i need to accomodate for :visited so I havent updated rarity yet

[hexed canyon]

ah lol

[dapper horizon]

also since Rarity always outputs a link, that's the only case I have to consider

[hexed canyon]

thats something to look out for

[dapper horizon]

speaking of rarity actually

actually nvm

I was gonna say "try not to use the rarity template for inline uses" but the template was literally designed for that lol

though it came to mind when I saw people using rarity template when there's Ct styling for rarity colors

[hexed canyon]

oh!

i just realized we dont have a style guide page yet

we definitely need to make the meta pages dont we

[dapper horizon]

style guide for what?

[hexed canyon]

is this how you do it?

[hexed canyon]

for writing wiki pages, grammar and writing tone and such

[dapper horizon]

ohhhh yeah

[dapper horizon]

just .bmw-infobox-canvas a, .bmw-infobox-canvas a:visited should suffice, since it captures all a that's contained in element with class .bmw-infobox-canvas

[hexed canyon]

that makes sense

i think ill include all the classes so that it doesnt break

better safe than sorry

[dapper horizon]

gotcha

[hexed canyon]

how does this look? i underlined it so that it indicates that it's a link

[dapper horizon]

looks good

[hexed canyon]

nice

thats weird, for some reason it doesnt register as a link

i cant click it or anything

oh i forgot to put in the square brackets lol

dummy

[dapper horizon]

I'm about to go sleep but I wanna ask first, how do we actually wanna go about cross-mod content?

For stuff that just uses APIs (CardSleeves, Fusion Jokers, etc.) we could make an Mbox saying "this requires [mod] API to appear" or something

But what about full-on cross mod content? Like example, supposedly there's something cooking between Cryptid and Pokermon, but under which mod do we document such content? Among several other questions that may arise

[plucky viper]

this was answered before i think, the mod that implemented it

[dapper horizon]

...wait yeah we had this convo before

Terrible memory retention strikes again 💥💥💥💥💥💥💥

[woeful shell]

why did you change MS's rarity, I literally made it as a rare joker

unless I made it like that

yeah sorry it was me

[clever knot]

https://balatromods.miraheze.org/wiki/User:Mr._Onyx/Sandbox

This was a bad idea

[burnt seal]

The line <templatestyles src="Infobox/styles.css" /> must be added to the very beginning of the Joker page before using the JokerInfobox template
Question: Is there a reason this line can't be included in the template?

[dapper horizon]

Yeah, the infobox itself already has the tag, it'd be redundant to declare it again on the article page

[dapper horizon]

This might be even more of a terrible idea, but what if you split the table into three tables: for "Non-Evolving", "One-Evolution", and "Two-Evolution", terms based on what's described on Bulbapedia page for evolutions

[clever knot]

Ah thanks

[dapper horizon]

i finished the cryptid joker page

oh god dammit i just remembered dev build exists

[hexed canyon]

omg

nice job

[dapper horizon]

thx

[hexed canyon]

we might be making a cryptid-specific infobox in the future

[dapper horizon]

what other stuff would go on it?

[hexed canyon]

one of the people over on cryptid proposed an overhaul of how jokers are categorized by introducing something called traits
those traits would be new categories based on the effect and target of the joker, being far more specific than how the balatro fandom wiki does it
while categories like "additive mult" and "economy" already exist in the wiki, this system would add dozens of new categories alongside those such as "scaling jokers", "retrigger jokers", "numbered card jokers", "flush jokers", "tarot-related jokers", "hand size jokers", "sell value jokers", so on and so forth
in the infobox, they would appear under a new infobox subbox labelled "traits" and would have a similar implementation to how the rarity template works right now

one immediately obvious problem is scope and scale

while this can be very useful for those browsing the wiki, building the infrastructure itself could be problematic

[final mesa]

I feel like these should all work as categories tbh

[hexed canyon]

yes, i said that

[final mesa]

If I open the wiki page for RNJoker and see thirty different tags in the info box I’m going to not understand a thing lmao

[hexed canyon]

i should mention that this is not pertinent and imperative, this is something we would like to have in the future but not right now

[final mesa]

But putting it in Category:Scaling Jokers or Category:Cryptid/Scaling Jokers works nicely for organizing these things

[hexed canyon]

ideally there would be a dropdown menu or a collapsible subbox that can hide and show those tags when necessary

[hexed canyon]

whats more important to me right now is adding this into the joker infobox template

[dapper horizon]

yeah this is scaring me from a wiki standpoint ngl lol

[dapper horizon]

that's a really good idea though

[hexed canyon]

implementing this right now and it makes me realize that maybe i should not be using notepad to write code!

i do have notepad++ though so im gonna go ahead and use that instead

[dapper horizon]

you WHAT

[hexed canyon]

yea

[dapper horizon]

yeah notepad++ is already tremendously better, it has syntax marking for the language too (if it isn't enabled for a file already, Language > H > HTML)

[stray thunder]

VSCodium has been the best for me so far

[dapper horizon]

VSCode (and similar) is definitely really good with all its features, but it can be a bit overkill especially in the context of making just small HTML elements and not entire websites

[stray thunder]

I guess in my position I'm using it for everything else, so might as well use it for small things too. And some of the HTML extensions are great on it

[dapper horizon]

absolutely

[hexed canyon]

this made me lose my marbles a tiny bit

    | {{InfoboxStatsTableBlank
        | title = Credits
        | contents = 
            {{if: {{{conceptcredit|}}}
                |{{!}} style="text-align:center;" {{!}} '''Concept:''' {{!}}{{!}} {{{conceptcredit|}}}
                {{if: {{{artcredit|}}} {{{codecredit|}}} {{{musiccredit|}}} {{{sfxcredit|}}} {{{misccredit|}}}|
                    {{!}}-
                |}}
            |}}
            {{if: {{{artcredit|}}}
                |{{!}} style="text-align:center;" {{!}} '''Art:''' {{!}}{{!}} {{{artcredit|}}}
                {{if: {{{codecredit|}}} {{{musiccredit|}}} {{{sfxcredit|}}} {{{misccredit|}}}|
                    {{!}}-
                |}}
            |}}
            {{if: {{{codecredit|}}}
                |{{!}} style="text-align:center;" {{!}} '''Code:''' {{!}}{{!}} {{{codecredit|}}}
                {{if: {{{musiccredit|}}} {{{sfxcredit|}}} {{{misccredit|}}}|
                    {{!}}-
                |}}
            |}}
            {{if: {{{musiccredit|}}}
                |{{!}} style="text-align:center;" {{!}} '''Music:''' {{!}}{{!}} {{{musiccredit|}}}
                {{if: {{{sfxcredit|}}} {{{misccredit|}}}|
                    {{!}}-
                |}}
            |}}
            {{if: {{{sfxcredit|}}}
                |{{!}} style="text-align:center;" {{!}} '''SFX:''' {{!}}{{!}} {{{sfxcredit|}}}
                {{if: {{{misccredit|}}}|
                    {{!}}-
                |}}
            |}}
            {{if: {{{misccredit|}}}
                |{{!}} style="text-align:center;" {{!}} '''Other:''' {{!}}{{!}} {{{misccredit|}}}
            |}}
    }}
|}}```

[austere robin]

me throwing readability out the window

(it always happens with complicated mediawiki templates)

[hexed canyon]

is this readable

[austere robin]

took me a minute but I think I get it

[hexed canyon]

yay

[dapper horizon]

i do not mean this as an insult of any nature, honest, but i nearly fainted at first glance

[hexed canyon]

something is terribly wrong

[dapper horizon]

{{#if: is the formatting for parser functions

[hexed canyon]

goddamn it

THERE WE GO

[dapper horizon]

don't worry, that's a common thing to get wrong, especially when double curly braces are used for like 3 mediawiki features lol

[hexed canyon]

thats genuinely embarrassing

[dapper horizon]

eh, it happens, and it happens to, let's be honest, every technical wiki editor a lot

[hexed canyon]

ah i see

does something like {{{conceptcredit|<noinclude>?</noinclude>}}} work?

as in the question mark only appears in the template page and everywhere else its blank

[dapper horizon]

hmm

i don't actually know, never tried it

[hexed canyon]

interesting

[hexed canyon]

it works!

[plucky viper]

WHAT

[hexed canyon]

this is my first time give me a break 😭

[dapper horizon]

ayy nice

[stray thunder]

wait how do I delete an image I uploaded?

[austere robin]

I'm assuming you do not have this button?

[stray thunder]

I uploaded a smaller version of the paperback logo that isn't used on the page, but I don't know how to access that file to even check lol

wait I found it

Yeah, I don't have that option

[austere robin]

this one? https://balatromods.miraheze.org/wiki/File:PaperbackIcon.png

[stray thunder]

yep, that's it

[hexed canyon]

oh and make sure to add the name of the mod in your image file name

[stray thunder]

I was gonna go back and reupload calling card to do that as well, but it looks like I'll need somebody else to delete it for me

[austere robin]

you can use https://balatromods.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:Delete or ask any admin to delete a page

[dapper horizon]

for future reference, regular users cannot delete anything, even files they uploaded; what you can do instead is append {{delete|(REASON)}} on the page you want deleted

[stray thunder]

Makes sense. So if I wanted to delete this image https://balatromods.miraheze.org/wiki/File:PaperbackIcon.png I would just go into edit source and mark for deletion?

[hexed canyon]

yes

[dapper horizon]

i wish i got some help from someone who actually understands how the hell shaders work because each second i spend trying to decipher these ancient runes is a second of agony

like why are these lines not parallel line in-game??? i cannot be the only one seeing the lack of parallel with these lines

and what do these variables mean???? where do they come from, how do you get them???????????

[austere robin]

there's https://love2d.org/wiki/love.graphics.newShader and https://www.khronos.org/opengl/wiki/Core_Language_(GLSL)

in short: extern is Love's version of uniform

[dapper horizon]

i don't think i can figure out the parallel lines part, but I managed to create generators for fragile and golden shaders regardless

dont upload these, these are still wip, just wanted to demonstrate

[hexed canyon]

maybe you could use shadertoy?

[dapper horizon]

cant figure out how to import/export images

[hexed canyon]

try this
https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/shadertoy-custom-texures/jgeibpcndpjboeebilehgbpkopkgkjda?hl=en

[final mesa]

fragile and golden have an extra variable that's generated randomly, which makes the lines appear in different places each time

glass and lines_offset probably have to do with that

[dapper horizon]

that's what I ended up deducing; I just took [shadername] and lines_offset to be arbitrary random values

[austere robin]

that's not how that works

you should go look at the lua side of the shader code

it's in Sprite:draw_shader

[dapper horizon]

i've been taking [shadername] to be an arbitrary random value and it's worked pretty well for me

like i'm sure that's not how it works but the point of this project is to at least show the shader's properties

[dapper horizon]

I made some pages for Diamond Bard and Heart Paladin (Fusion Jokers), sort-of as a personal testing-the-waters with Joker pages

https://balatromods.miraheze.org/wiki/Fusion_Jokers/Diamond_Bard
https://balatromods.miraheze.org/wiki/Fusion_Jokers/Heart_Paladin

[clever knot]

Do you think this wiki needs navbox?

[dapper horizon]

Perhaps

[hexed canyon]

it absolutely does

[dapper horizon]

@burnt seal Hey just a heads up, try not to reference content from other mods in Joker synergy sections; for those sections try to focus on just vanilla and same-mod content (and required dependencies)
We want to write with the assumption that the reader isn't doing cross-mod shenanigans, so referring to other mods adds some confusion and clutter to the overall section (esp when the reader isn't interested in cross-mod stuff)

That being said, thanks a bunch for getting the other class jokers up and going for Fusion Jokers, much appreciated :)

[burnt seal]

ah all right
perhaps we should have a style guide page with this sort of thing

[dapper horizon]

yeah that was brought up but no one's really gotten around to making it

but I got time today, I can take a look at making it

[burnt seal]

well we've got a start https://balatromods.miraheze.org/wiki/Modded_Balatro_Wiki:Style_Guide

i think i got the title advice wrong

"hasty" truly is the word of the day oops

[dapper horizon]

oh thank god

i was literally stuck with one bullet point lol

i was staring at the screen and nothing just came up, like i forgot all the principles i work with

[burnt seal]

okay now i realized what i did here
the image title convention we've been using is different from the page title convention

[dapper horizon]

yeah, [ITEM NAME] ([MOD])

I'll make a different section for images

[dapper horizon]

alright, i added some more points

oh, edit conflict

there we go

[hexed canyon]

oh we finally have a style guide nice

[dapper horizon]

still wip but yeah

gotta start somewhere

[hexed canyon]

im currently looking at the wikipedia style guide rn

and the minecraft wiki one too

[dapper horizon]

i tried to take inspo from other wikis as well but i dont wanna plagiarize so im just disregarding that stuff

[hexed canyon]

i did see this which we could do
https://minecraft.wiki/w/Minecraft_Wiki:Wiki_rules/Generative_AI_policy

[dapper horizon]

minecraft wiki is under weird gloop, so they can do that

[hexed canyon]

ah that makes sense

other things off the top of my head

• american english spelling
• Month Day, Year in prose
• YYYY-MM-DD in date format
• impersonal writing

[dapper horizon]

but balatro is a canadian product, therefore ca-

hmmm

i got nothing to input for the form of english to use; as a canadian i already can't be bothered to distinguish between american and british english lol

[hexed canyon]

i have a personal vendetta against british english lol

[dapper horizon]

hey look, it's okay to spend an extra character on a few words

[hexed canyon]

besides, wikipedia uses american english as standard

[dapper horizon]

fair enough

[hexed canyon]

youll have to rip "analyze" and "color" and "defense" out of my cold dead hands

[dapper horizon]

the date formats are good tho

and impersonal writing, i assume that means avoiding first and second person?

[hexed canyon]

yes and also avoiding any lean or tone in the writing style

what do we do with out-of-game lore in the case of jen's almanac?

[dapper horizon]

hmmm

id say since the balatro wikis are already understood to be pretty meta-oriented (meta, as in, best game decisions), we should not delve too deeply into that lore (i.e. just a trivia bullet point)

like "this character is a character from this person's lore where they do this" and stuff, but nothing too in-depth

and if it's out-of-game, wouldn't really make sense to keep entire collections of lore on the wiki

ig lore should only be deeply documented if it's deeply revealed in-game?

[hexed canyon]

i agree with all those points

[dapper horizon]

i guess we could summarize this with an example: "If Example mod is part of Placeholderverse lore, which contains features not associated with Example mod, then don't delve too deep into Placeholderverse lore, and only make note of such lore for Example mod content that are associated with the lore. On the other hand, if Demo mod only has Demo mod lore, then the lore can be described more deeply on its own page"

[dapper horizon]

ok but this assumes we're documenting jen's almanac on the wiki; got nothing against the mod but i've seen the craziness that goes on in the mod and 😨

oh yeah some other things

should we finally decide on what image size to go for with mod sprites?

[hexed canyon]

as in the one's that go in main mod pages?

i was thinking we use the icon in-game but i know theres external logos like what jen's almanac and pokermon have

if we could find a way to integrate both of them into the same infobox that would be great

[stray thunder]

Couldn't some mods have a lore section where they can explain the lore in?

[dapper horizon]

only if the lore is directly around the mod, and if the mod isn't part of a larger overarching lore

[dapper horizon]

this

[stray thunder]

I guess they could link to the wider lore in the References section

[hexed canyon]

whats our opinion on including install guides in the wiki page

[stark obsidian]

SMODS install + default mod install guide is good

[hexed canyon]

is SMODS different from steammodded?

[stark obsidian]

They're the same

[austere robin]

SMODS is steamodded

[hexed canyon]

ah i see

[stark obsidian]

90% of mods follow typical mod install so only the ones that don't would need their own install guide.

Which can just be put on the same page as the general mod info

[austere robin]

which mods need special installs?

[hexed canyon]

unsure, but its good to have protocol in case one does show up

[dapper horizon]

might be nice to have a text-visual guide for installing mods

[hexed canyon]

should the install guide be on its own page or included in each main mod page?

[austere robin]

own page no?

if you really want you could reference it on each mod's main page

[hexed canyon]

i think referencing it is best

something like "See main article: Installation Guide"

[dapper horizon]

I was thinking, for Github mods we should just point to The page on how to install Github mods

since you're using the same interface for all the mods (which is Github)

for other unlike mods (if any) we make it a mod subpage

[austere robin]

I guess

wouldn't it be more like "how to download off github" and "where to move the mod you just downloaded"?

[dapper horizon]

yeah

[naive wadi]

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words#dateformat

[hexed canyon]

finally made the mod infobox template, let me know if theres any bugs (no documentation for now)
https://balatromods.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:ModInfobox

[austere robin]

this is presumably a replacement for https://balatromods.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:ModInfoBox ? (yes that's a different link)

[hexed canyon]

yes it is

[austere robin]

oh clever on the <noinclude>?</noinclude>

[hexed canyon]

yea im glad it works

[stray thunder]

So we can go ahead and replace it in our own pages?

[hexed canyon]

test it out in a sandbox page before pulling it into the main mod pages

[dapper horizon]

All parameters filled out, seems to work fine

[hexed canyon]

does color: initial; work on spanned links?

[dapper horizon]

like links inside span? yeah it should

[hexed canyon]

great

[austere robin]

is imagedimensions really a required argument?

[hexed canyon]

it shouldnt be

[austere robin]

the [[File:{{{image|}}}|{{{imagedimensions|}}}]] results in [[File:image.png|]]

[hexed canyon]

i believe that should work?

[austere robin]

which just... doesn't seem to load the file

[hexed canyon]

ah i see

let me try a hotfix real quick

[austere robin]

hmm, you're right, that should still load 🤔

[hexed canyon]

maybe you got the file name wrong?

[austere robin]

I did not

(mostly since it loads when I add the imagedimensions arg)

[hexed canyon]

i see

okay reload the page

[austere robin]

yeah that should work

yup works

[hexed canyon]

nice

[austere robin]

no need for a version section?

[dapper horizon]

can confirm it's optional

[austere robin]

wait did I just miss the entry for it

[hexed canyon]

its the parameter latestversion

[austere robin]

oh I did I'm stupid

my bad

[hexed canyon]

do we want that information to be required or not

[austere robin]

I feel like no since it only introduces a really easy way for outdated information to exist

[hexed canyon]

thats fair

[dapper horizon]

Head's up, I'm making a breaking change to {{modsubpage}} that makes it so the nameless parameter "X" adds the page under the category "MOD/X" where X is whatever is provided into the nameless parameter

I'll edit all pages accordingly

Done

[hexed canyon]

not sure i understand but yay more infrastructure

[clever knot]

How do you make edition cards?

Like this

[wintry compass]

wdym

[sudden jay]

SMODS.Enhancements

[clever knot]

🤔

[sudden jay]

🤨

[wintry compass]

do you mean in game or on the wiki

[clever knot]

Wiki

[wintry compass]

probably just an overlay over the joker png

[clever knot]

The thing is

I can't find how

[wintry compass]

oh the whole thing is its own image

https://balatromods.miraheze.org/wiki/File:Fragile_(Cryptid).png

[dapper horizon]

Translate shader code from (whatever .fs is) to (something more familar) and make it so the translated shader code applies to still images

Or at least that's what I did @clever knot

[clever knot]

😅

[dapper horizon]

Using overlays doesn't necessarily work due to how shaders interact with each of the pixels on something

(Especially hue shifts)

If there are editions you want me to take a look at, I can check it out, but I'm currently focusing on finishing the last 3 remaining Cryptid editions, which I'm currently taking a break from

[clever knot]

Ortalab and Pokermon editions is all I need

[dapper horizon]

What editions does ortalab have?

[austere robin]

how are you exporting it as an image?

[dapper horizon]

Using a python library to import an image, interpret its color channels, manipulate stuff, and export the resulting manipulated color channels as an image

Can't remember the library off the top of my head

[austere robin]

Oh neat. I tried that at one point but couldn't get it to work

[hexed canyon]

it looks like theres some new jokers in the paperback mod that have the exact same names as some jokers from lobotomy

is it just new art or are they actual new jokers?

[plucky viper]

Same source, different art, different effects

[hexed canyon]

do we want to make a disambiguation mbox for that?

[plucky viper]

files already have (Mod Name) appended and the pages would be under subpages

so prolly not

[hexed canyon]

okay

[dapper horizon]

@hexed canyon just wondering, is there anything else you need to do before the new infoboxes are ready to go? no rush though

[hexed canyon]

mainly documentation and testing

i havent written up the documentation for modinfobox

[dapper horizon]

gotcha

[hexed canyon]

also the template guide meta page you mentioned the other day, i think its good to write that up too

[celest spear]

Overexposed, grayscale and anaglyph iirc

And laminate d

[dapper horizon]

Gotcha, thank you

[dapper horizon]

I can try helping out after I deal with stuff tomorrow

Just need to get a better grasp on the infobox system

[dapper horizon]

Oh god I just had an idea for jtype

Make it allow multiple inputs so no need for multiple templates

But this might require some Scribunto shenanigans

[burnt seal]

thought: not all mods are content mods, there's stuff like talisman that just sorta adjusts the game (and sometimes other mods rely on it)
still worth documenting but do we need to adjust the style for them?

[dapper horizon]

Definitely, though generally most if not all mods require some adjustments of wiki style to accommodate their unique features

Ykw I was thinking a while ago, would it be worth documenting stuff like API so that mod devs can use them and stuff?

[burnt seal]

that seems useful yes

[hexed canyon]

oh can we download module:string into the wiki?

[wheat tundra]

hey so i know of a quirk Asteroglyph has that probably should be added to the cryptid vouchers wiki page

Asteroglyph sets your ante to 0

except if you already have Asteroglyph

in which case the 2nd asteroglyph sets your ante to 1 instead

and the same is for all consecutive asteroglyphs

all future asteroglyphs also set your ante to 1 instead of 0

(and yes, it is possible to get more than one asteroglyph, via things like Deck of Equilibrium or Pointer)

[hexed canyon]

thats probably a bug

[wheat tundra]

idk

how do you accidentally make it so you set the ante to 1 instead of 0 if you already have an asteroglyph

seems too specific to be a bug

[burnt seal]

bug or not, it's worth documenting
also worth documenting is an unexpected interaction with redeemed deck (it subtracts the ante number when you bought hieroglyph, resulting in sending you to ante -2)

[woeful shell]

Cryptid's first release was on May 10th, where did March 19th come from?

[final mesa]

Before the release

Look at the mod thread

[woeful shell]

hmm, maybe I could add may 10th to it and mark it as "release date"?

better?

[burnt seal]

oh no now i have to figure out when i first started concepting my mod

[dapper horizon]

I think we should just stick to first availability of the mod itself

[dapper horizon]

Because yeah lol

[final mesa]

There was a version you could download in March

[dapper horizon]

Oh

[austere robin]

then that should probably be the creation date yeah

[dapper horizon]

I was wondering if we should make a sort-of wiki meta announcement bulletin board thing to let editors know of some vitals changes (like templates, style convention, etc) without all that stuff getting buried under discord messages

[burnt seal]

probably a good idea, yeah
if people start linking to the wiki enough there'll start to be users who edit the wiki but aren't on discord

[dapper horizon]

Yeah bc I don't think me saying "yall pls categorize images like this" etc. here won't be much seen much 🥲

[burnt seal]

oh yeah, it might also help to put the style guide in the sidebar
miraheze lets wikis do that, right?

[near wren]

I've been uploading a lot of images; how do you categorize them in masse?

related: all the Jokers for Cryptid has been uploaded 🎉

(except for Non Verismile?)

[stray thunder]

Is there any way we can get the mod title centered in this template? I feel like it's awkward to the left

[dapper horizon]

At this point I think you're better off waiting for the upcoming infobox reworks

Its not quite ready yet; still being ironed out and tested all that

[stray thunder]

Ah, didn't realize a rework was happening; cool

[austere robin]

https://balatromods.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:ModInfobox if you need a link btw, and this one has stuff more centered

[hexed canyon]

some formatting issues with the mobile version, im thinking of implementing changes that adapt to the mobile skin

[burnt seal]

did someone ever put together a joker template that could do soul images, or did i imagine that

[hexed canyon]

soul images?

[burnt seal]

second layers, like the legendaries have

[hexed canyon]

ah

ive made a test version of it, but no actual implementation of it as a template

[burnt seal]

ah, i see

[hexed canyon]

see this

[dapper horizon]

I think what you can to do at least get started with mobile support is to make the infobox expand to 100% width when it detects that the client is as small as a mobile screen

Can't think off the top of my head what the code for that is but I can send it when I'm able to

[hexed canyon]

that can work for sure

[dapper horizon]

@media only screen and (max-width: 768px) {
  .bmw-infobox-canvas {
    margin: 10px auto;
    width: 100%;
  }
}

I think this is how it goes @hexed canyon

[hexed canyon]

i think theres a specific name for the mobile skin, ill have to check

this is a good starting point i think

found it, its called minerva neue
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Skin:Minerva_Neue

[hexed canyon]

!!! i might have found the extension we need
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:MobileFrontend

[dapper horizon]

hold on, im pretty sure this is a miraheze default

lemme check

yeah the wiki's got it activated

[hexed canyon]

oh sick

[dapper horizon]

so you could use body.skin-minerva .bmw-infobox-canvas but you also have to consider that some people might switch to Minerva on desktop

[dapper horizon]

this is a responsive unit that applies a style when the width is about as small as portrait-mode phone screens

[hexed canyon]

it looks like mobile screens default to around 360-375 pixel widths when visiting web pages

so yeah max width of 768px will do just fine

is this properly formatted?

  body.skin-minerva > .bmw-infobox-canvas {
      background-color: #cccccc;
    width: 100%;
    margin: 10px auto;
    padding: 1px 0px;
    border-radius: 10px;
    box-shadow: 0px 0px 4px gray;
    text-align: center;
    float: right;
    image-rendering: pixelated;
  }
}```

[dapper horizon]

don't use >, it won't select anything

> is "direct child", so excludes grandchildren etc

[hexed canyon]

ah i see

just a space then?

[dapper horizon]

yeah

[hexed canyon]

is the rest of the code good

[dapper horizon]

hmm

you can remove some redundant properties like background-color box-shadow, text-align, and image-rendering, since those would already be defined by the default .bmw-infobox-canvas

the mobile responsive selector just overrides the default

Other than that things look good

[hexed canyon]

interesting, i thought itd be a new class altogether

okay i saved the changes

nothing looks like it changed in desktop view which is good

mobile view looks good

and actual mobile view works!

im gonna try and see what i can do about the excess space in the titlebox

looking at this code, it looks like the <p> lines that dont have the class "title" work as intended in desktop view (ie zero height), but in mobile view they have a minimum height of 7px which is what i dont want

<p class="title">'''{{{title|?}}}'''</p>
<p style="line-height: 50%; font-size: 14px;">{{{subtitle|}}}</p>
<p style="line-height: {{#if: {{{subtitle|}}}|13px|0px}}; font-size: 14px;">‏‏‎ ‎</p>```

[dapper horizon]

seems to be this thing that's the problem

have to override the padding and margin

[hexed canyon]

how do we do that

do we explicitly declare .content in the stylesheet?

[dapper horizon]

thinking

display:none if {{{subtitle|}}} else no text

wait no

im wrong i got the booleans wrong

display:initial if {{{subtitle|}}} else display:none

particularly if you replace line-height: {{#if: {{{subtitle|}}}|13px|0px}} with display: {{#if: {{{subtitle|}}}|initial|none}} on that 4th p, you'll get the same effect as with 0px

it's just that as a user you can't interact with it at all

sorry my internet's being slow, my messages are getting through way too slow

so if you add display: {{#if: {{{subtitle|}}}|initial|none}} to the 3rd p you should get something that works on both desktop and mobile

oh god these messages are really messy

<p style="margin: 4px; line-height: 0px;">‏‏‎ ‎</p>
<p class="title">'''{{{title|?}}}'''</p>
<p style="line-height: 50%; display: {{#if: {{{subtitle|}}}|initial|none}}; font-size: 14px;">{{{subtitle|}}}</p>
<p style="line-height: 13px; display: {{#if: {{{subtitle|}}}|initial|none}}; font-size: 14px;">‏‏‎ ‎</p>

[hexed canyon]

oh i forgot about display

this is so so so helpful

hm. it actually straight-up just disappears now

but i think i can work with this

[dapper horizon]

oh wait, it's because the 4th p has margin

[hexed canyon]

yes

i think im gonna rewrite more than just the <p> stuff

[dapper horizon]

use padding for .bmw-infobox-titlebox

[hexed canyon]

im gonna try something

yes

grrr i need to remember that the first value is top-bottom and the second value is left-right

[dapper horizon]

and 4-valued {padding, border, margin} is clockwise sides, start-at-top, if you ever need that

[hexed canyon]

thank you

so the outside padding works but now i have to deal with this god-awful line height problem

[hexed canyon]

even at 0% it is still disastrously big

wait. maybe its bc i declared font-size in the stylesheet

let me see if thats why

THATS WHY

[hexed canyon]

why in the world does line height work for the title but not for the subtitle. make it make sense

[dapper horizon]

i can try looking at it, can you text that source code over here so i can inspect it

[hexed canyon]

sure

<span style="font-size: 28px; line-height: 100%;">'''{{{title|Jimbo 2:<br>2 Jim 2 Bo}}}'''</span>

<span style="line-height: none;">{{{subtitle|this is such a silly title<br>lol lmao}}}</span>
</div>

[dapper horizon]

okay, so apparently line-height does not work on inline elements, so span; it only works for block elements, so div

...

[hexed canyon]

then why does line-height work with the first span

[dapper horizon]

that doesnt explain why title gets the line-height

yeah

im stumped, i'm not sure

[hexed canyon]

damn

[dapper horizon]

@hexed canyon ok i might have encountered something

Try setting line-height of container div instead of either span

[hexed canyon]

IT WORKS

[dapper horizon]

ayy nice

also i'm beginning work on a proper main page layout, highly wip but here's progress so far

[hexed canyon]

omg

[plucky viper]

what the fuck we have 4k edits?????

is it like. mostly file changes

[hexed canyon]

blame us and our need to use sandboxes

[plucky viper]

oh

LMAO

[hexed canyon]

its likely a lot of file uploads too

[dapper horizon]

i think it's 50% me having to categorize the images that come through

[hexed canyon]

heres the balatro font btw
https://managore.itch.io/m6x11

[dapper horizon]

:O

we can upload the .ttf file to the wiki but there's a bit of set-up needed first

Once the file is uploaded, the following needs to be placed in MediaWiki:Common.css:

@font-face {
  font-family: m6x11;
  src: url('[RAW IMAGE LINK]')  format('ttf')
}

Raw image link is grabbed from here:

[hexed canyon]

i dont think we want to use m6x11 for the entire wiki

[dapper horizon]

Oh, this doesn't apply the font globally

[hexed canyon]

ah

[dapper horizon]

It just adds the font to the font-family list

[hexed canyon]

nice

[dapper horizon]

font family code can actually be straight up m6x11, no quotes no spaces etc

I'm gonna go ahead and do it, I can't edit MediaWiki:Common.css so admin's gotta do it

[hexed canyon]

damn

[dapper horizon]

oh wait

even more set-up needed

wait hmm

ok yeah .ttf needs to be added to allow uploading it

(this is a screenshot from my own wiki but should apply to bmw as well)

[hexed canyon]

yep

[dapper horizon]

When we do upload the file though, we need to attribute the author, something like:

This file was created by [https://twitter.com/managore Daniel Linssen]. It is free to use with attribution. File obtained from [https://managore.itch.io/m6x11].

im gonna worry about this another day im too tired hh

[hexed canyon]

yea we should def do that

we can write in the meta about page

[dapper horizon]

That, and file page

[clever knot]

Looking good?

[clever knot]

https://balatromods.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:Tooltip

Here's another template you all might find useful

[hexed canyon]

it looks neat
the type must be written as words, not shorthand

[clever knot]

Aw

I will add the type at effect section

[hexed canyon]

no i meant in the stats section

[clever knot]

Oh

[hexed canyon]

also theres plans to make a special infobox template for pokermon jokers, with evolutionary lines and pokemon type sections accounted for

[clever knot]

Wait what do you mean?

Ah

Perfect

[hexed canyon]

you typed "!!" instead of "Effect"

[clever knot]

Hm

[hexed canyon]

and "+$" should be "Economy"

we do need to establish a style guide for joker pages, so its not all your fault by any means

[clever knot]

The thing is

I did write all of that

[burnt seal]

if someone (me after work) wants to add a whole bunch of mod pages, here's a list they can reference

[clever knot]

Jesus christ

[dapper horizon]

Should we put Jokers under Mod/Joker or Mod/Jokers/Joker?

[clever knot]

Latter is my choice

[burnt seal]

Mod/Joker

[plucky viper]

former

[dapper horizon]

shoot, i got that wrong on jtypes

i'll rename it rq

I have +$ as Additive Cash

[hexed canyon]

i say we keep it because theres now multiple different ways to earn money (multiplicative, percentage, etc)

[dapper horizon]

that's fair

Is it okay if you undo my recent edit on jtype currently away from pc

[hexed canyon]

sure

also forgot to actually update the template lol (also made necessary changes to infobox stylesheet)
https://balatromods.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:InfoboxTitlebox

[dapper horizon]

edited top bar a bit

[dapper horizon]

heads up, recentchanges is almost useless because i took up actually half of it (filter out minor edits)

[dapper horizon]

i also changed the yellow in the second box because ugly; gave it a bit more orange

[woeful shell]

every mod is now cryptid

billions must jolly joke tuah and M on that facile

-# i'm so sorry

[sudden jay]

@wintry compass

jolly joketuah

[wintry compass]

shut up 😭😭😭

[wintry compass]

i love you

[final mesa]

Why do I kinda want to add that now 😭

[sudden jay]

do it, i beg

please

i was meant to add jimbo tuah

[final mesa]

Put it in the CSL

[sudden jay]

(courtesty of kane)

[sudden jay]

the what 🤨

[final mesa]

Cryptid Suggestions Log

[sudden jay]

OOOH

is that on the cryptid server

[hexed canyon]

Don't.

[sudden jay]

Do.

[sudden jay]

i wven made some art for it

[hexed canyon]

???????

[sudden jay]

[dapper horizon]

Shame on all of you

-# /j

[dapper horizon]

@burnt seal I'm gonna place the community assets under one single category, assuming there won't be more general-scoped placeholder sprites made for each type of item

[burnt seal]

makes sense

[dapper horizon]

I'd like some feedback on the main page construction; maybe what to add, some improvements, things that work here, etc

[austere robin]

• I love the edits/articles/files in balatro's style
• What would be the criteria for putting a mod under the Mods header?
• I feel like a short text section about the wiki itself would fit in nicely
• Maybe also some external links for balatro related stuff? Not sure about this one

The border rounding also makes me feel weird. It looks good, until I think about the shape of the individual cells? idk this is just me rambling you don't have to take this one seriously

[dapper horizon]

good point on external links, we'll definitely need that

as for what to put under the Mods section, I don't really have a specific criteria; I was thinking to prioritize "really large mods that people might want a wiki for" (i.e. Cryptid) but I don't think this criteria will hold up well; I could replace the Mods section with something else entirely, like listing categories

Hmm, for the text section about the wiki itself, maybe we could say like "this is the place for content mods, API documentation, cross-mod interactions" etc

it depends on what the scope of the wiki is gonna be ig

[austere robin]

yeah I think you'd want a solid, easy to determine criteria if mods are gonna be put on the homepage, otherwise people are gonna be hurt their mod isn't on it

[dapper horizon]

yeah that's what I'm worried about too

I'll just list categories then

[austere robin]

what categories do you mean btw?

[dapper horizon]

I was thinking mods, mod content (contains categories for Jokers, Consumables, etc.), images

[austere robin]

ah sure

[dapper horizon]

I don't want it to list out the categories for Jokers, Consumables, Decks, etc because anyone visiting the wiki is more likely than not interested in finding information for one specific mod

[austere robin]

I mean it could basically be the standard boilerplate wiki description

a short section about why it was created, by whom its run, how to contribute, and what the content of the wiki is about

[dapper horizon]

fair enough

[dapper horizon]

I can always make all boxes equally rounded (would make CSS cleaner lol) but my thinking for these corners is to make a smooth "flow" between each other instead of having a "bumpy" feeling, kinda thing

[austere robin]

Yeah I understand why you did it. Don't take my feedback on it serious until someone else also has an opinion on it 🙃

[dapper horizon]

alrighty

[dapper horizon]

I do think that to be able to confidently write this, we need to be clear on what the scope of the wiki is actually gonna be; it's clear we're going to document mods, especially content mods, but we're also already beginning to make pages for some of the more technically fundamental mods like Steammodded and Talisman, and we've got mods providing special APIs like CardSleeves and Fusion Jokers

What are we gonna do with those pages? Will we say that they just exist, maybe list content if they have any? Are we gonna go in-depth with API documentation? The idea's been thrown around, but remains unclear as to whether we'll actually go and do it

[austere robin]

that's a good question but I'm not sure any one person can answer it 😅

[dapper horizon]

Yeah, which is why I'm hoping I can get some more input from others

until then I'll maybe hold back from making the wiki summary text - I'd rather not the wiki make promises it won't fulfill yet

[austere robin]

I think the original focus was always on content mods, though I suspect people would also definitely be interested in more technical mod-stuff like steamodded, talisman, UI improvement mods, installation guides etc.

I'm not sure if actual API documentation for specific mods is the direction the wiki wants to go in.

[dapper horizon]

that's fair, I find that those are seldom done on encyclopedias, always in this specific format that I encounter more than I'd like once in a while

I do think that the APIs deserve some attention to help modders gain access to a bunch of cool features and stuff

[austere robin]

sure, but mods already have their own API pretty well documented afaik

unless you had a specific mod in mind?

[dapper horizon]

not really

[austere robin]

yeah most of them use the github wiki for API documentation

[burnt seal]

a thing that might be cool is if it showed a few mods at random out of a larger pool
that way the criteria wouldn't need to amount to "one of the top X best mods with the best pages"

[dapper horizon]

I think utility-wise it's not not the greatest thing as a main landing page point, if people need to wander around the wiki with a specific direction
BUT I do think that would be really cool; I could add it as a separate section for random mod pool

[dapper horizon]

also just had an idea: categorize mods further under categories like "content mods", "ui mods", etc, then use those categories for the main page portal

[austere robin]

That's probably helpful while navigating

[dapper horizon]

got mosaic and noisy going

but i cannot for the life of me figure out glitched, like this is my best attempt thus far

it's not good enough; not sporadic enough, not to mention the weird mirror problem

whatever i'll worry about it some other time

in the meantime I think I'll have to switch from Ace of Spades to Jimbo when showing editions; it's very much not colorful enough so the shader effects won't show in full display

im taking an indefinite break from shaders this stuff is actually making me lose my hair

i think i said i would do ortalab and pokermon shaders but no im over it 😮‍💨

[hexed canyon]

i really like the format, and i second larswijn's points
one point i would like to make myself is i think there should be more space in between elements to let them breathe, perhaps add more line-height and padding to the topmost section and to the images in the mod section

[austere robin]

sounds like opengl shaders alright

[hexed canyon]

i believe so yea

although it might be GLSL which is similar but not identical

[austere robin]

GLSL is part of opengl iirc

[hexed canyon]

i think so? im not totally sure if it builds upon it or if its a different branch of it

[hexed canyon]

also i think the inside colors should be lighter

[austere robin]

oh and on a similar note, dark mode version looks kinda ass

[dapper horizon]

Miraheze dark mode is just Ass (capital A) in general

most people agree across Miraheze

[dapper horizon]

alrighty, i've noted that, thank you

[plucky viper]

i've been using miraheze dark mode! it's so utterly Ass

anyways, at one point we can probably have a "Featured Mod"/"Mod of the Week" instead of just featuring popular mods on the Main Page

[austere robin]

I'm not sure that's a good reason to not fix the dark mode version 😅

[dapper horizon]

Miraheze's dark mode involves the use of CSS filters, particularly invert and hue shift

I can't (be bothered to make the color schemes) work around that

[hexed canyon]

oh i use an external dark mode chrome extension

[plucky viper]

btw, here's your hair growth shampoo
https://discord.com/channels/1116389027176787968/1276894022656462910

[hexed canyon]

i think we can do both, where most people who only play the popular mods can easily find the mod they want to explore, while also showcasing more obscure and lesser known mods to those people

[dapper horizon]

_ _

where was this when i was looking for it?????????????????????????

i dont think it'll grow my hair back (geneticks ahahahah) but holy hell tysm

[austere robin]

it uses GIPS, it's not great

[dapper horizon]

why not?

[hexed canyon]

hair loss scary

[plucky viper]

oh right you still need to translate the shit shaders from love2d to glsl

[austere robin]

yes you need to translate:
love2d's version of opengl's ancient version of shaders -> somewhat modern opengl version of shaders -> gips version of shaders

[dapper horizon]

curses

[plucky viper]

rip

[dapper horizon]

but it couldnt be as bad as working with python opencv's default BGR(A) and [y,x] instead of [x,y] right?

[austere robin]

oh you were using opencv?

[plucky viper]

okay that sounds worse

[dapper horizon]

yeah

[dapper horizon]

and none of the values are normalized so i have to account for that in translations

[austere robin]

I've never used opencv for glsl stuff so I'm not sure how bad that one is

[plucky viper]

so this is like. marginally better than what you had to do

[dapper horizon]

i hope, i'll check it out when i'm more motivated to deal with this lol

[austere robin]

let me know if you need any help with the GIPS stuff, I used it for a bit myself

[dapper horizon]

on a side note, i really don't want to work around miraheze's implementation of dark mode, so I'm pretending it doesn't exist; maybe I'll consider it if the wiki has its own style and implementation of dark mode (which would begin with overriding the filters miraheze applies with dark mode (not too hard to do but there are some edge cases to snipe))

[austere robin]

I have no idea how miraheze's dark mode works, so if it's as much of a pain as you say it is, I can understand

[dapper horizon]

Dark mode works by applying an invert and hue shift filter on the entire page, except for stuff like images, videos, and other visual media; in this way the only thing that changes is lightness, which inverts

Not that it's painful, but it's just

tricky to come up with a color scheme that works in the light and dark

something something color theory breaks down etc

the two-mode-compatible colors won't really look good

[austere robin]

wait, you can't pick a colour for light mode and colour for dark mode?

[dapper horizon]

ah, wait

i just remembered

nifty little thing called "mw-no-invert" that prevents dark mode inversion from occurring, i could just use that

[austere robin]

well... it sure is something

[dapper horizon]

yeah

[dapper horizon]

also i could, i suppose

[austere robin]

but yeah that's a lot of work

[dapper horizon]

i gotta move prototype to template to try it out tho but

at this point i really think it'd be better for us to, not immediately but one day, work on the wiki CSS and implement our own dark mode afterwards

There's a CSS way to disable the ugly filter-based dark mode, and we can use the class name associated with it to change the site theme from light to dark

i.e. change background from one image in light to a different image in dark

but i don't think we should worry about that right now

[austere robin]

yeah sounds like a good idea for future us

[dapper horizon]

also there are already a couple of wikis that just disable it straight up lol

particularly the wikis for Pizza Tower and Rain World (both hosted on Miraheze)

but I think we could make a light and dark mode version of the wiki CSS; like we could use, say, the default green playing BG for light mode, and Celestial pack BG for dark mode

just some ideas

[austere robin]

oh yeah a custom background would be nice

[hexed canyon]

oh thats a really fun idea

[hexed canyon]

heres what i use for dark mode btw if you wanna check it out
https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/dark-reader/eimadpbcbfnmbkopoojfekhnkhdbieeh?pli=1

[dapper horizon]

...oh god

i just had a really stupid idea for

random mod pool

so you know the shop in balatro

[austere robin]

please tell me your idea is to be able to "reroll" the random mod pool

[final mesa]

so it's like a random mod each time you load the main page?

[dapper horizon]

was thinking, yeah, i don't think it would be too hard to implement

[austere robin]

hahaha awesome

[hexed canyon]

oh thats ridiculous lmao

i think its a bit much imo

[plucky viper]

lmao that'd be so funny

[stark obsidian]

That might be a little much but also really funny

[dapper horizon]

yeah i thought so too, just an idea that came to mind lol

[austere robin]

but it's funny

[dapper horizon]

like i could totally implement this with js but i think it's best to keep this simple lol

[hexed canyon]

funny and viable doesnt always overlap

[austere robin]

what, are we doing reasonable takes that take interface usability into account?

[hexed canyon]

its a wiki, and easily finding what youre looking for is top priority

lol

[dapper horizon]

besides that I think I'll use this section for mod types (e.g. content, qol, texture packs, api, something something etc)

[hexed canyon]

oh thats a good idea

[austere robin]

it's probably for the best 😭

[hexed canyon]

and then for each mod type, they can have their own page displaying the most popular mods of their type, and a list below that which is basically all the mods of that type currently in the wiki

we could do it in the category page itself but in my opinion its ever so slightly messy

[dapper horizon]

It's not too bad, category pages are kinda just like main namespace pages, but with the forced addition of a list of pages

i think it's actually the better option, less mainteneance and stuff

[final mesa]

mods:

• Cryptid
• Cryptid
• Cryptid
• Cryptid

[hexed canyon]

so true

[final mesa]

i see nothing wrong with this /j

[plucky viper]

cryptid is the only balatro mod wdym

[final mesa]

cryptid by localthunk's younger cousin

[dapper horizon]

if cryptid is so good why isn't there a cryptid 2

[hexed canyon]

jen

[dapper horizon]

that's the spin-off

[austere robin]

that's cryptid^2

[final mesa]

cryptid{1000}2

[vast snow]

cryptid base game merge tomorrow

[austere robin]

I'm sure Thunk would love the instability

[final mesa]

if jimball isn't in the 2025 gameplay update...

[dapper horizon]

poggers

[naive wadi]

just wait til i 1.1^cryptid

[hexed canyon]

i think the main mods we want to showcase are cryptid, jen's almanac, pokermon, ortalab, and grim

[vast snow]

so true\

[austere robin]

I'm still not sure about choosing specific mods to be on the homepage ngl

[dapper horizon]

what is "that"

[final mesa]

golden needle

[hexed canyon]

oh i meant in the mods page

[final mesa]

i came up with the first half of that one

[stark obsidian]

aintnowaying rn

[dapper horizon]

ah

[austere robin]

wait, Math is to blame for my suffering on that challenge?

[hexed canyon]

holy hell

[final mesa]

i have modded screenshots of this in fucking december

[austere robin]

google golden needle

[vast snow]

sorry math we gotta kill you now

[austere robin]

ew, the stakes were above the deck?

[hexed canyon]

oh lord stake being on top is so cursed

[stark obsidian]

Daily run leaks?!

/j

[austere robin]

better, but still feels like you run into the criteria issue

[final mesa]

it's still a steamodded example mod one year later

[hexed canyon]

thats true, and i think its good to avoid conflict on which mods get to be showcased in the first place

[austere robin]

are there any other modded wikis we can steal ideas from on that point? 🤔

[hexed canyon]

none that i know of unfortunately

[austere robin]

math just dropping lore bombs inbetween

[final mesa]

tbh someone should make a video about old modding lore

it's really cool

[vast snow]

is it really that interesting

[austere robin]

the commit timeline vid for steamodded was cool to watch

[dapper horizon]

none feature feature mods, and none categorize mods by type afaik (or maybe im not looking hard enough)

[plucky viper]

old modding is funny because i can say i made the first joker

[final mesa]

there's an underground discord and everything

well "underground" because localthunk was aware of it

[austere robin]

lmao

[vast snow]

forgot there was a point where thunk didnt like modding

[austere robin]

"unofficially sanctioned"

[final mesa]

no he liked it

[vast snow]

huh

[final mesa]

just didn't want it to be public

because you're bypassing demo restrictions

[austere robin]

yeah sounds more like a PR/liability (?) thing

[final mesa]

but the people who found out independently -- he didn't tell them to stop modding

[vast snow]

oh fair

[hexed canyon]

oh very interesting

[stark obsidian]

I still see mods that have a loading system with a comment on top saying "File loading based on Relic-Jokers"

Does Cryptid still have this?

It does :]

[dapper horizon]

id be so interested to watch that

[plucky viper]

i don't know anything that happened in the underground :p

[stark obsidian]

Unfortunately I hopped into modding when the game released.

[austere robin]

yeah I wasn't there for the first months of balatro, let alone modded balatro

[hexed canyon]

same

[austere robin]

would be interesting 👀

[hexed canyon]

i think i got into balatro in may of this year when NL streamed a ton of it

[vast snow]

i got here about 3 months ago

[final mesa]

cryptid in 2023 be like

[hexed canyon]

7 shop slots

woawee

[final mesa]

first screenshot of new content I could find

[hexed canyon]

the alpha

1/inf

[vast snow]

id win

[austere robin]

I think I got into balatro in the start of March 2024? like 3 weeks after the full release

[dapper horizon]

also unrelated note, added more to main page construction, still gotta work out the colors

[final mesa]

nice!

[hexed canyon]

oh neat!

i think theres too much space between the sections now

and maybe we should have a white textbox for the about section

[final mesa]

wait i think this one was also added to vanilla

lmao

[dapper horizon]

It is

the flint

[dapper horizon]

god i cant wait to get this going on a template lol

actually hmm, i should probably make text boxes opaque and consistent with the thing in mods

[hexed canyon]

yep

[final mesa]

trying to find more lore pics, but this was the stage where we were doing more bug hunting and developing Immolate

[austere robin]

lmao I see thunk hadn't implemented e-notation yet

[final mesa]

infinite discards moment

[austere robin]

wait, were you getting infinite chips from banner?

[final mesa]

another really old mod

that I made

oh yeah GUI immolate was also a WIP thing at some point

never finished, mostly not done by me

I have no idea what engine Marr-Ales was even using for this

[austere robin]

that's the ultimate deck in steamodded examples no?

[stark obsidian]

Scratch 😍

[hexed canyon]

what do we think of this as a style guide for writing joker pages

[austere robin]

dang, need you to write a style guide for the actual game's wiki

lot more "fuck it just write something" energy there

I will say this is a lot. Mods change constantly, and this would be a mountain of information to keep up-to-date with

[hexed canyon]

its not that much imo

[austere robin]

** Modded Categories (e.g. Code, Chess, Evolution Stone, etc.)
is this for modded consumables, or modded items in general? if only consumables, I'm missing a section for general modded items

[hexed canyon]

what kind of modded items are there?

ohhhh. something like grim i think

[austere robin]

for example yeah

[hexed canyon]

ill added modded features as well then

do you have other examples?

[naive wadi]

also should there be a section for tags?

[naive wadi]

also for this, i think it would make sense for the numbers to be clickable

[austere robin]

• grim's skills
• contracts?
• sleeves (though those are more like "decks+")
• are betmma's spells consumables? I can't find out and I don't have it installed
• probably some other mods I forgot (maybe lobcorp has non-consumable items?)

[hexed canyon]

hows this

* Poker Hands
* Jokers
* Consumables
** Tarots
** Planets
** Spectrals
** Modded Categories (e.g. Code, Chess, Evolution Stone, etc.)
* Modded Features (e.g. Grim Skills, Contracts, etc.)
* Vouchers
* Tags
* Blinds```

[hexed canyon]

ah youre right, i forgot about those

[austere robin]

yeah seems better

[hexed canyon]

great

what else needs a style guide

from what i can list off the top of my head

• general style guide
• mod pages
• install guides

[naive wadi]

are there infoboxes for other card types

[hexed canyon]

not really, for now we're only doing general consumable pages with a table listing each card

[dapper horizon]

I tried that and I figured it wouldn't be clear that those are clickable; showing the hypertext separately is a better way to show that, well, they're links

[hexed canyon]

can you make more than one sandbox

[untold ether]

how do you get your mod added to the wiki?

[hexed canyon]

right now its kind of a free for all

i think we should add a rule saying "if the mod has no publicly available release version out, no pages can be made about it or its features"

unfortunately twelve souls exists but ideally that should be the only unreleased mod we'll ever have in this wiki

[naive wadi]

(strange pencil doesn't have any releases yet, only dev versions)

[plucky viper]

yeah i think we can grandfather twelve souls and strange pencil in

but no more unreleased mods after that

[austere robin]

You can write the wiki page yourself, that's what I did 🙃

[hexed canyon]

yep

[untold ether]

worte the basics for my page

[hexed canyon]

what was your page?

[dapper horizon]

Gemstones

welcome to the wiki!

[hexed canyon]

oh nice

[burnt seal]

on this topic: i know that some mods straight up do not do formal releases and you have to download the code from github even though the mod is in a "released" state
-# (i was going to give Bunco as an example, but its readme asserts that releases exist, so i guess it used to have them and then removed them for some reason? which is a completely different scenario than i had in mind)

to account for cases like this, i think we'd want something more like "the mod has to have been made available to the public"

[sudden jay]

you can just add your own mod on the wiki? neat

[burnt seal]

i imagine that most mods are going to get added by either their author or someone who very likes both their mod and editing wikis
and only the biggest and most popular mods will be able to rely on having that second kind of person

(oh, bunco does have releases, they're just not in the sidebar for some reason. every time i think i understand github, i learn about a new behavior that i was not expecting)

another rule worth having might be one to the effect of "when you create a jokers or other subpage for a mod, please also create the mod's main page if it doesn't already exist"

stubs are totally fine, they attract wiki magic, but not creating the page at all is... weird to me

[austere robin]

yeah that seems most likely

[final mesa]

Or maybe there’ll be someone who wants to add as many mods as possible to the wiki, you never know

[burnt seal]

oh yeah, it's absolutely a sum thing
the more they love wiki editing, the less they need to love a particular mod to add it, and vice-versa :p

[near wren]

🙂

with https://lshtech.github.io/, ChatGPT, Bulk Rename Utility, and Wiki Up, it's actually pretty fast to quickly make Joker pages

[clever knot]

ChatGPT?

You serious?

[near wren]

I'm too lazy to learn ReGex functions :p

[zealous turtle]

you make me want to write the pages myself right now but I can't

[final mesa]

Could you not just ask ChatGPT to write the regex for you? And then never touch it again lol

[zealous turtle]

im pretty sure chatgpt doesnt even know how regex functions would work, and just spit out stupid bullshit that looks like it would work but doesnt

its hard to not be mad about the fact you use generative ai rn im sorry

[ocean slate]

imo its fine if you used it to make the function, but 100% not the content

[zealous turtle]

i kinda disagree but I don't want to argue today

oh wait this person is also making the entire pages with the ai?

you cannot expect an ai to know exactly what the jokers do

[ocean slate]

they said its easy to make pages

[zealous turtle]

it would make things up, it doesnt know balatro mods at all

[near wren]

I just used ChatGPT to create Excel functions

[zealous turtle]

ah alright, but tbh I don't think it knows how they work

[near wren]

to clarify, all I'm doing is turning websites like this https://itayfeder.github.io/Codex-Arcanum/
into tables for the wiki

https://balatromods.miraheze.org/wiki/Codex_Arcanum/Alchemical_Cards

[burnt seal]

question: should the mod infobox templates automatically categorize the page into [[Category:{{name}}]]?

[dapper horizon]

Not a bad idea, I think we should go with that

[hexed canyon]

in our case, a release version is the latest version you can see on the right hand side of the github page
i do agree that we need a proper distribution location for mods outside of github because its super messy right now as it is

[hexed canyon]

im going to say this right now

Generative AI such as ChatGPT and Stable Diffusion are strictly prohibited in any form of contribution in the Balatro Modded Wiki.

[daring pelican]

hey all im having a problem with getting steammodded working for my game. i have read the install instructions and its still not working

[runic snow]

If nobody said that they were using it, would you genuinely be able to tell the difference if it worked fine?

[hexed canyon]

thats going into the realm of speculation, allegation, and accusation which i am wholly unequiped for

i wouldnt know the proper protocol, but i do think civility and level headedness is key to figuring out if they used genai or not

i know wikipedia has whole pages devoted to this for sure

check those out, that could be useful if such a situation happens

[austere robin]

wouldn't be the first time I'd have to tell a group member to get their AI generative bullshit in check

[runic snow]

Lemme guess, James/Jelly?

[austere robin]

do you mean jellymod?

[runic snow]

Yes. Are you not talking about that, though?

(That reminds me, I need to check up on the JamMod progress.)

[austere robin]

I'm not haha

[dapper horizon]

https://balatromods.miraheze.org/wiki/Modded_Balatro_Wiki:Categorization

[dapper horizon]

I know this was from a while ago, but I'd like to give my two cents on the topic:

The primary concern with the utilization of large language models (LLMs, genAI that makes text) and difusion models (DMs, genAI that makes images) in an encyclopedic context is the reliability of the generated data; since Balatro (video game) is a particularly new topic in the world, LLMs and DMs are not trained to give reliable information about Balatro, let alone its mods that are obscure relative to the greater game, hence I agree that data directly generated by LLMs and DMs are to be strictly forbidden for addition in articles on the wiki.
(Also important to note the whole shitshow regarding the copyright status of generated data; remains to be debated to this day, hence to stay safe and futureproof our content, don't use genAI text or images on the wiki.)

However, Solace used an LLM to create a tool that is operated and directed by them to format [what is definitely not wikitext-friendly text] into a wikitext-friendly format. The generation of code is just as controversial as the copyright status of generated data, however the important part is that ultimately no data generated by any LLM is directly placed into the wiki - what is placed instead is just a re-parsing of already existing data.

This is one of the grey areas of genAI; I'm personally fine with using AI to create snippets of code that serve a greater function in human-directed programs, but honestly anyone's mileage may vary.

tl;dr

• Make stuff with genAI and put that stuff into the wiki as is: Unreliable, legally dubious, avoid.
• Make code with genAI to make tools that is controlled by the user to make data from one domain more viable in another domain: It's okay?

As a person who finds the regular use and reliance on LMMs problematic, firmly opposes the generation of images via DMs, and believes that a proper use of machine learning can truly help elevate various mundane functions (so we can spend more time doing things that are less mundane and repetitive), we need to be careful with how to specifically stand against stuff like LLMs and DMs.

It's important to think about why we should not allow certain uses of machine learning on this and many other wikis, and do a lot of research to better understand why, rather than throwing a blanket over the entire thing and just outright deny any usage of these tools.

It's okay to be angry and upset at irresponsible and inappropriate usage of machine learning tools (God damn I am with AI-generated """""artwork"""""), but beyond that, please be careful about what to be mad at, and preferably, try not to be mad at it, just careful and skeptical.

[dapper horizon]

Uh, besides that, pretty interesting way to get tables for different mod pages up and going; where are you finding those kinds of pages?

[hexed canyon]

very good, i like this a lot

[hexed canyon]

here's wikipedia's stance on genAI as far as i can tell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Computer-generated_content

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Large_language_models

[dapper horizon]

Wikipedia is an entirely different domain than BMW; the major difference is that they're documenting a bunch of stuff in the world, which LLMs have just as big of a grasp on, while we're documenting Balatro mods, which LLMs pretty much know nothing about

While we can consider what Wikipedia et. al. have to say regarding machine learning data, we ultimately have to form our own stance on the usage of machine learning data for article contents

But the main point is that Solace just generated a portion of code to make a larger tool that ports HTML into wikitext tables

Those two pages only talk about the direct implementation of LLM and DM data into articles

[hexed canyon]

i see

i think your tl;dr best sums up what i think we should do for the BMW

while also adding a caveat to your second point being "thoroughly and diligently make sure that all output from LLMs is sanitized, edited, functional, and safe to understand and use"

[dapper horizon]

sounds good

[vast snow]

the bmw lol

[plucky viper]

not the place to ask for support! you'd be better off asking in #⚙・modding-general

[hexed canyon]

what happened

[dapper horizon]

someone asked for help with installing mods probably

[plucky viper]

^

[hexed canyon]

ah

[hexed canyon]

that reminds me

we really need an easy way to install mods

not even install, just find them all in one place

[dapper horizon]

you mean like a list of mods?

there's several lists of mods, one that i think is actively maintained is this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aoJrrC7Y-dkvJwBu_U6amelYnoCrZgWqpoGRAfHN1ys/edit?ouid=104778838255629149408&usp=sheets_home&ths=true

this was shared here before

[untold ether]

are mods added on a request basis for the mod index?

[dapper horizon]

not sure, i've got nothing to do with it

[plucky viper]

no

but haven't updated it in a while

like a long ass while

[dapper horizon]

oh

💥

[plucky viper]

just haven't found the time to update it

[untold ether]

ah lol

[dapper horizon]

(external links will be colored in the final version)

[hexed canyon]

no, an aggregator like gamebanana and an easy mod downloader like celeste's everest

[dapper horizon]

ah

that'd be cool

except for the fact that from experience, everest keeps failing on me, so i'm largely indifferent to the idea

[dapper horizon]

indefinite break ended two hours ago, i ported the cryptid edition shaders over and everything works wonderfully except noisy and glitched

the process went really smoothly

[clever knot]

👀

[hexed canyon]

nice

[hexed canyon]

ah thats rough
i havent had that experience myself personally

but yea i dont want to have to install lovely the hard way ever again

it just. sucks

[plucky viper]

niceeee

[dapper horizon]

Also was wondering if this is good or could add more

[hexed canyon]

its good but its pretty plain at the moment

what if you took the swirly patterns of the game background and used it as a texture?

[dapper horizon]

I can't use URLs in CSS outside MediaWiki:Common.css due to Miraheze limitations

The idea came to mind but I tried it; doesn't work

[austere robin]

what link are you trying to use?

[dapper horizon]

https://static.wikitide.net/balatromodswiki/e/ef/Website-background.png

[austere robin]

what is static.wikitide.net? is it miraheze's image hosting?

oh it is

[dapper horizon]

Yeah (Wikitide is an adjacent wiki farm to Miraheze, complicated history)

[austere robin]

do you have the original miraheze file?

[dapper horizon]

No, not sure how to get it

[austere robin]

oop, I should've tried harder to find it https://balatromods.miraheze.org/wiki/File:Website-background.png

[dapper horizon]

Oh, that

That link doesn't point to the direct image, only the page showing image details

I.e. you can't embed an image with that link

[austere robin]

I know, but I wanted to see if they have a /latest

[dapper horizon]

Ah, okay

[hexed canyon]

why not upload the texture to the wiki and use it that way

[dapper horizon]

this is uploaded to the wiki

it's just that either Miraheze or MediaWiki in general don't like seeing the url function for CSS outside of Common.css due to """""security issues"""""

[hexed canyon]

ohhh

gotcha

is there possibly a way to do it in-line?

[dapper horizon]

no, the software sanitizes inline css as well

(sanitization is basically "no unsecure css features", including url function)

also im trying to apply noisy from cryptid but it just seems to be darker than in-game?

and glitched barely changes things

[dapper horizon]

uhh as a compromise what if i just did more gradients

[untold ether]

what website is this?

[dapper horizon]

https://discord.com/channels/1116389027176787968/1276894022656462910

not website

[hexed canyon]

oh i quite like this

what gradient did you use for the two columned divs?

[austere robin]

I like it, though the external links section is getting kinda hard to read (previous version too, just didn't see that one haha)

[hexed canyon]

they said that would be fixed once the stylesheet goes in i think

[austere robin]

urls will be coloured in the final version
as long as the final colour is more readable than this blue/purplish

[dapper horizon]

yeah b/c mediawiki default styling colors links a certain way

but because they define that for all as I can't change it directly without stylesheets

[dapper horizon]

radial gradient atop linear gradient (you can stack gradients in background; hell you can stack background elements in background)

[hexed canyon]

oh sick

[hexed canyon]

@dapper horizon i found an extremely dirty workaround to make background images work

[dapper horizon]

yeah that's like really dirty lol

[hexed canyon]

four divs to make one thing work is so nasty

[vast snow]

markup languages hurt my brain

[hexed canyon]

this is more CSS than markup but yea

[dapper horizon]

but html is a markup language :)

[hexed canyon]

what makes a language a markup language

[dapper horizon]

markup langugages involve defining relations between parts - parents, children, siblings, etc

[hexed canyon]

ohhhh thats cool

[dapper horizon]

and from there they can be used to dictate how to display involved parts

[hexed canyon]

i see i see

[dapper horizon]

I think if there's nothing else to change in the prototype I'll begin creating the template for this

[hexed canyon]

is the workaround too dirty

[dapper horizon]

yeah; it's generally not good to use img elements as backgrounds

i could also always ask wiki admins to make a class whose sole purpose is to add a background with a certain image, but ehh

i think we'll be fine for now

[hexed canyon]

can you change the image when editing an article or not

[dapper horizon]

not in that case

[hexed canyon]

damn

[dapper horizon]

since it would be in Common.css, only editable by higher perms

[hexed canyon]

that sucks

[hexed canyon]

is it simply against common practice or is there a more unsafe reason?

[dapper horizon]

against common practice; imgs are more interactible than divs with background images - you can right click to do more with the image, select the entire image like you would with text, add additional properties like alt text, and so on

if you go down the road of using divs with background images you begin dealing with overlapping children, which is always going to be messy in terms of implementation and screen size response

it's not worth the mess honestly

[hexed canyon]

i see

surprisingly it still works when downsizing the window and going into mobile view

[dapper horizon]

https://balatromods.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:Main_page

It's almost ready, I just need to figure out what to put in the portal

[clever knot]

I just checked the template you made in your sandbox and I want you to know is that some pokemon has branched evolution

In other words, they'll evolves into something else with right conditions

[dapper horizon]

Man I am not having the greatest luck with shaders rn

Managed to get ortalab fluorescent and cryptid noisy going but cryptid glitched and the other 3 ortalab editions, nope

[clever knot]

😮

Very nice 😄

[hexed canyon]

ah yea, thats definitely true in the case of eevee

ill have to look up how bulbapedia writes about it

[hexed canyon]

i believe this is what you wanted to put in the portal?

[dapper horizon]

Ohhh right

I'll have to get categorizing then

[dapper horizon]

• Content Mods (Adds various new game content)
  • Joker Mods (Only adds new Jokers)
• Quality of Life Mods (Adds additional tools that increases the convenience of the gameplay)
• Resource Packs (Replaces pre-existing textures, audio, etc. with ones created by the author)
• API Mods (Provides an API that adds more features to the game that other mods can use in a convenient implementation)
• Technical Mods (Fundamental mods required for modding)