This post sucks pls kill it

[cunning eagle]

https://discord.com/channels/1116389027176787968/1187936299655647313

[lofty shuttle]

Yeah but I actually want it gone

[cunning eagle]

https://discord.com/channels/1116389027176787968/1187936299655647313

[lofty shuttle]

Oh ok

😢

[heavy gull]

Ah, a classic case of “git gud scrub”

[lofty shuttle]

I knew that was coming

[heavy gull]

You should simply just have better luck

[lofty shuttle]

Alright thanks I'll contact Satan to increase my luck

[heavy gull]

tbf, my luck isn’t any better, I only have 1 or 2 decks at gold stake

[lofty shuttle]

:O

[verbal onyx]

jst dont use it

[timber breach]

make erratic deck randomize enhancements, suits and ranks at end of every round

[verbal onyx]

thats way too random

[timber breach]

fine, also let it add or remove up to 15 cards

[lofty shuttle]

But I wanna 100% balatro 🥺

[verbal onyx]

jst keep restarting

[lofty shuttle]

I've done that a lot lol

[verbal onyx]

like get like 10+ of one rank or like 20+ one suit and u have a simple win

[lofty shuttle]

Oki :3

[verbal onyx]

try it

[lofty shuttle]

Oki

[verbal onyx]

erratics actually so easy

[lofty shuttle]

Not if I'm on purple stake 😭

[verbal onyx]

purple is generically hard

[languid ridge]

Erratic wasn't that hard imo. I usually just waited til I had 8+ of a rank and just went all in on it

[jolly cape]

R holder L

Sorry

[languid ridge]

+4 mult

[jolly cape]

Is this like holy water but instead of demons it repels skinky

[languid ridge]

Probably lol

THE POWER OF +4 MULT COMPELS YOU

[jolly cape]

Agh

[languid ridge]

You still put your fingers in a cross, but it's actually a Plus sign

[jolly cape]

Lol

[hollow onyx]

ngl i agree

erratic deck is REALLY badly designed

even more so than black deck

its just that if you want any chance to utilize the deck, you're basically forced to spend a ton of time just holding r until you get 10 of something

it was pain to gold stake, not because of the difficulty mostly, but because it just goes against what a deck should be

[hollow onyx]

yeah thats like an argument for why it should be reworked lmao

if this is the standard gameplay loop thats just anti-fun

[jolly cape]

I think its funny rho

[hollow onyx]

alright but this is a game with c+ in it

[jolly cape]

This is like saying delete eden hes too random

:3

[jolly cape]

Sorry they’re

[hollow onyx]

idk what eden is but is the only reasonable thing to do when playing as them or whatever it is restarting for a few minutes until you highroll with the randomness

[jolly cape]

If that’s reasonable in your eyes then that’s a you issue tbh

Nothing says oh you MUST hold r !!

[hollow onyx]

except then you gain no benefit from the deck

[jolly cape]

Its just a playstyle issue if anything

You dont need an op deck for erratic to work

[hollow onyx]

literally in this thread people are dismissing this by saying "its easy just hold r lol"

[jolly cape]

Also eden is an isaac character with randomized stats and a starting item and active item

[jolly cape]

Well that’s a bad argument imo

“Just hold r” is not at all related to the game design of the deck

[hollow onyx]

but if you aren't doing it you're just making it worse

[jolly cape]

Its just how you choose tonplay

[jolly cape]

I’d rather that than just hold r and wait for something op. That sounds so awfully boring

Get what you get, try to make it work, and if you fail, try again

[hollow onyx]

but its how it plays out 90% of the time on high stakes when you really need a deck benefit

[jolly cape]

No it isnt

You’re actively choosing to hold r

The deck isnt supposed to be the hold r deck

[hollow onyx]

and by actively choosing not to hold r you're kinda just shooting yourself in the foot

[jolly cape]

It just happens that some people are impatient and want their build to be handed to them on a silver platter

[timber breach]

Okay I'm gonna just put this here rq

[jolly cape]

No you aren’t, you’re playing the game normally
This is like saying choosing not to savescum is actively shooting yourself in the foot

[timber breach]

Its a deck in the game. Cope.

I dislike it too, and I'll admit that

[hollow onyx]

"erm just cope"

[timber breach]

Id think a rework would be cool

[jolly cape]

Isnt the whole point of suggestions to change things in the game

[timber breach]

But it's an interesting concept, still not impossible to win with in 99.9% of scenarios, and gives you early deck shaping

[timber breach]

This is a removal, not rework or change

[jolly cape]

Like i’m all for keeping erratic but that’s a pointless srgument

[tawdry bay]

How would you even change it

[jolly cape]

Removal changes the game

[timber breach]

If they were suggesting changes to it, I'd be more sympathetic IMO

[timber breach]

I don't know, but they mentioned reworks above

[jolly cape]

Now it always gives at least 10 of one rank so you dont hold r

[tawdry bay]

Lowkey? Make it start with 40 cards instead of 52

[timber breach]

Arguing for removal of something that is unique content makes 0 sense if the argument is not liking it

[hollow onyx]

i would prefer a rework but idk how you would go about that while keeping it as erratic

[jolly cape]

Abandoned but better?

[tawdry bay]

The content sucks

[jolly cape]

I think erratic can stay the same :)

Its a unique deck

[timber breach]

I had fun w it

[tawdry bay]

You literally just said you dislike it

[jolly cape]

And can be fun if you dont just do the same boring process of holding r until you get an op start

[timber breach]

Yes, because it's inconsistent and that can be unfun alot

[jolly cape]

People will say this and then use bloodstone smh

Joke

[timber breach]

But I've also had alot of "8 kings" starts, which are fun. Removing it would remove the high and low, and i value the high over it

[timber breach]

Bloodstone is a really fun Joker, until it fails me then I cuss out my screen for an hour

[hollow onyx]

i mean its still not good design to have a deck where it is strictly optimal to just hold r whether or not your playstyle does it or not

[jolly cape]

Yeah its bad because its inconsistent

[jolly cape]

I dont care if its strictly optimal because thats not even technically gameplay

[hollow onyx]

i also think bloodstone is in the top 10 or so worst jokers but thats besides the point

[jolly cape]

I was jokning

[hollow onyx]

yeah ik

[hollow onyx]

ive said what i can say for the most part

[jolly cape]

In isaac, its technically optimal to hold r until you get a good item at the start, but people often dont do that because its boring as shit and resets the win streak

Hell you could argue that holding r applies to any deck

[timber breach]

Becahse of starting shops and skips

?

[jolly cape]

i.e investment tag/holo tag

[jolly cape]

Pretty much

[timber breach]

Wait

Were playing a game about RNG

[jolly cape]

I have heard people argue that’s the optimal way to play

[timber breach]

About literal gambling..

[jolly cape]

It is not literally gambling

[timber breach]

about

[jolly cape]

Its not about gambling

[tawdry bay]

Even ignoring hold-r, erratic is just boring also

[timber breach]

Unless you're searching the seeds, it's by definition gambling dude

[jolly cape]

I remember a suggestion about being able to choose the first skip tag because of r holding being “meta”

[jolly cape]

Maybe but is it a crime for decks to be boring

[timber breach]

Wait acc

[jolly cape]

We have anaglyph

Why not delete anaglyph

[tawdry bay]

I also hate anaglyph

But last time I said analglyph was the most boring deck people got mad at me

[jolly cape]

Why not delete red too cuz that’s boring

[jolly cape]

You right tho

Its just normal defk

Deck

And maybe a good skip from time to time

[timber breach]

Its a "stockpile double tags until you win, then negative tag for funny" deck half my runs

[tawdry bay]

It's the 'get $100 ante 6 from a skip' deck

[jolly cape]

Pretty much

I never played it much due to it being so lame

Still though, it shouldnt be deleted

[tawdry bay]

It shouldn't get deleted for being boring and nobody's arguing that, but erratic is both too much of a hold-r deck and it's boring

[jolly cape]

Its not a hold r deck

[tawdry bay]

Like what does erratic deck add to the game? It could just be a challenge

[jolly cape]

That is a choice made by the player

[jolly cape]

Interesting point

Not sure how to argue it… but atp it would be kinda hard to transition erratic into a challenge

[timber breach]

My issue is that, as the game is, it removes the biggest "upside" of erratic

Being cool seeded runs

Otherwise it's just meh, and that's still a hold R challenge

[tawdry bay]

Do y'all still want erratic deck in the game because you like it, or just because you don't want content being removed?

[jolly cape]

I dont actually know if i like it but i do know there havent really been good arguments for it’s removal

[timber breach]

I just don't see there being a satisfying thing to do here

[jolly cape]

“Its just a hold r deck” is only true if you let it be

[timber breach]

A rework is hard to think of and balance, removing it removes some cool seeds, keeping it irritates some people, and making it a challenge keeps it "hold R" without the seeded/best aspect of it

No matter what, some niche of peoplr are unhappy

[jolly cape]

Removing it would also take away from the people who already put in the effort to gold stake it

[timber breach]

I know I would personally be peeved if you made it a challenge

Moreso than removal or keeping it

[languid ridge]

I think a rework for Erratic would be making it less Erratic technically. Some guaranteed bounds for some ranks and suits so you always have some interesting options at the very least each deck

[tawdry bay]

Here: Erratic is a basic deck that has minimal strengths to it. It's a deck where you hope to high roll and get an interesting start with 8+ of the same card in order to actually get the upsides of the deck. Outside of those scenarios, Erratic is a deck with no upside and plays like a vanilla deck. In order to actually have fun with the deck, you need to get a good start.

To get a good start like that you need to reset the deck a ton before even playing a single round. This is different from resetting to get a good starting Joker since that at least requires interacting with the first couple shops rather than a run being dead from the start. Getting a bad start with weak Jokers and overall shops can still be fun to turn around in the end with good resource management and adapting to what you're giving, leading to fun streaking and gold staking experiences. However, getting a bad erratic deck just leaves you with a basic deck with no upsides, and potentially just downsides from some Jokers being harder to activate (like rank-specific ones)

I feel like the deck adds nothing to the game since outside of the top 5% or so of starts, it's a bland and boring deck, but to actually have an interesting start, you need to hold-r which is lame af

[jolly cape]

So basically, the deck is boring?

Yes i did read the whole thing :3

[tawdry bay]

Yeah, it's boring and the excessive rng doesn't add anything

[jolly cape]

I think i get your point… the deck is very clearly flawed but i dont think removal would be the right way to go

Because there are other boring decks

While they dont have the same rng factor

[tawdry bay]

Silver deck was removed for being super hold-r, it's not as extreme as silver deck is but I think it's similar

[jolly cape]

Yea i get that

I didnt play the demo but i can only assume how boring silver deck was

[tawdry bay]

Same here

idk about fully deleting erratic deck, but I can't think of any interesting rework for it and I'd rather it be deleted than kept as is

[ocean quiver]

i dont think a deck being kinda boring is good enough reason to have it removed

[jolly cape]

Yea

[ocean quiver]

at worst its a slightly worse base deck

[jolly cape]

If there was a way to incentivize not holding r would erratic be more interesting

[ocean quiver]

i really dont think it matters

[jolly cape]

Yea i figured

Just a thought

[frozen field]

but erratic is nice 🥺

i like my 2s and excessive clubs

maybe erratic should only give decks that have a large deviation with the model deck of cards

[icy lance]

Noo, erratic is my favorite deck

It is so much fun to play with the randomness, alternatively you can reset over and over til you get a deck you like if you want to try a build out which is nice as it is like a soft deck fixing for you

[lofty shuttle]

To be honest I just made this post to vent my frustrations

I actually like erratic deck, I was just extremely angy that I can't beat purple stake

:3

[languid ridge]

I do think the post brought up a decent discussion, but I do enjoy Erratic (though for trying to win or go on a streak it's horrid lol)

[languid ridge]

Yeah, that's what I was suggesting. Removing some of the randomness to make it seem more random/erratic.

Like guarantees there will be at least three ranks that are 7+ cards and at least three ranks with 3-0 cards. Could do something similar with suits too, so guaranteed one suit will either have like +8 cards or -8 cards

[thick silo]

The point of erratic deck is to be fun

With all its weird seeds and stuff

[lofty shuttle]

Erratic deck should randomize every thing/j

[lofty shuttle]

I mean eh, in later stakes it's just press new run button simulator to me and it's really annoying

[thick silo]

Are you struggling with a deck with no real downside?

[lofty shuttle]

Yeah, it took me a while to beat purple stake

Also erratic deck has a few downsides

It's not that bad of a deck though, I guess purple stake is just really hard for every deck, its just pressing new run a bunch gets very annoying

Most of the tips I've gotten were just "hope for a good deck to use 4oak with"

Also can a mod just delete this post, this post sucks a lot and the only reason why it exists is because I wanted to vent my frustrations out

[jolly cape]

I dont get this argument when people have been arguing that it isnt

[jolly cape]

Thats a pretty bad tip tbh, just make do with what you get. Could make for an interesting challenge

[lofty shuttle]

Yeah but the first 30 runs I tried doing with what I have

90% of the jokers I saw were page 1 jokers

[jolly cape]

Well yea

You gotta get good /lh

[lofty shuttle]

It wasn't really the decks fault, it was just my absolutely horrendous joker luck

Yeah fair

I'm getting better though ^-^

[thick silo]

It's quirky and random

[jolly cape]

:3

[lofty shuttle]

:3

[frozen field]

:3

[half swallow]

Erratic best deck

[frozen field]

perhaps

[lofty shuttle]

Plasma best deck

[frozen field]

1 200 000 VV

peak skill

[lofty shuttle]

I have no idea what this means but yes I agree

[frozen field]

violet vessel needs a score of 1.2 million to beat

[lofty shuttle]

Ohh

[heavy gull]

Tbh, as someone who loves randomizer mods, and all the advantages and setbacks that will always come from a randomized run, I kinda wish erratic went harder, was just completely unhinged, and entirely random. You could get 40 cards that all have editions, seals, etc., or 20 cards that don’t really have anything to them. Just completely random, no holds barred. The fun of something being “randomized” comes in the fact that either the run is gonna be free in some areas, or you’re going to be incredibly disadvantaged and have to work with the very few available tools you have to your deck in other areas. Of course, the downside is that if you get a run with like 15 face cards and run into plant, it’s pretty much over unless you pull a fuck ton of strengths and deaths to convert to aces, or you have a bunch of jokers that can pick up the slack for you. And I think that’s the main crux to letting erratic be more wild and less boring. So many bosses tend to just hard counter certain cards, certain hands, certain playstyles, that you can’t really design a deck around being completely random, and truly adapting on the fly. It’s a bad deck because it’s boring, and it’s boring because there’s simply too many bosses, and too many situations that could cause problems with a completely randomized deck, so it needs to have bunch of stipulations, failsafes, setbacks, and be tuned down to the point that it’s just so uninteresting to play. But I think the concept is there, and it could genuinely be a really fun deck. I think it just needs to be completely unchained. Let it run wild, let it randomize everything about the deck, because a deck that is completely different every single time in every way will always be far more better than “look, now you have 5 more jacks than usual”. Even if not every run is gonna be a winner, it’s much more fun saying “I had a run with nothing more than 10 glass red seal jacks” then “I had a run with a couple more jacks and numbered cards, but no kings and one less queen”

[lofty shuttle]

TRUEEEE

[verbal onyx]

my best run unseeded was on erratic. got like e16 with shoot the moon, baron, and mime. started with 8-9 kings and queens

[icy lance]

This is exactly why I love erratic

[lofty shuttle]

I had my best run with erratic a few hours ago, reached 400 billion :3

[wicked tundra]

i ain't reading alla that :( too much text

[lofty shuttle]

Read it!!1!!1!1 READ IT!1!1!!1

[lofty shuttle]

Hold on let me simplify it for you

Honestly, this whole concept of "randomization" should just go off the deep end. Why stop at card counts, seals, or editions? No, no, no—everything should be randomized. Imagine each game opening with the possibility that the deck itself is a shifting, unstable temporal anomaly, where cards randomly turn into different languages mid-run, some holographic, some just pure static fuzz, and others that are literally just empty spaces with notes like "Card Not Found" scrawled on them. Who’s to say your "deck" can’t be a strange assortment of snack items, foreign currency, and the occasional jellybean? And forget bosses that counter specific cards. How about bosses that just straight-up glitch in and out of existence? Or better yet, bosses that ask you trivia about obscure 16th-century philosophy mid-battle, and if you fail, your entire deck gets converted into, I don't know, paperclips and dust bunnies?

Totally didn't use chat gpt for this >:3

[heavy gull]

Lol, did you even read what it gave you before sending it?

[lofty shuttle]

No

XD

[lofty shuttle]

Erratic deck weak, make brain hurt. Cards all over place, no plan—sometimes strong, other times like soggy rock. Boss smash puny deck easy, erratic no fun, no think! H

H

Black deck stupid as hell! Get one more Joker, but lose hand—what the fuck?! Need 100 items to unlock? Make caveman cry! Black deck suck big rock! Caveman review :3

[heavy gull]

TLDR; Erratic is a bad deck because it’s boring, but it’s boring because it’s a heavily nerfed deck compared to what it has the potential to be, because of failsafes, the boss design, and general gameplay reasons. If Thunk actually just let the deck be completely random, with deck size (maybe a deck range of like 15-52), editions, seals, etc., it would already be much more fun than what it is now, even if you don’t expect to win with every hand, or even if the game becomes a cakewalk. It’s much better than just “you get 5 more jacks than usual”

(That’s the shortest I can possibly go without the argument making less sense, hope that’s short enough lol)

[lofty shuttle]

"Erratic deck bad! Boring and weak! Thunk make deck too safe, ruin fun! If deck random—size big, lots of cards, cool stuff—it be better! CAVEMAN WANT CHAOS! More fun than just "five extra jacks!" CAVEMAN WANT EXCITEMENT, NOT DULLNESS!"

[heavy gull]

I guess that also works, kind of

[lofty shuttle]

ERRATIC DECK BAD! SO FUCKING BORING! THUNK MAKE IT WEAK AND SAFE! CAVEMAN WANT CHAOS, NOT DULL CRAP! IF DECK BIG AND RANDOM, IT BE BETTER! AAAAAHHHH! CAVEMAN SCREAM LIKE BLOODLINE GONE! MORE FUN THAN "FIVE EXTRA JACKS!" CAVEMAN WANT EXCITEMENT! CAVEMAN SO FURIOUS!

Here's a better one

[heavy gull]

Okay, now you’re starting to go into the territory of average reddit user

Lmao

[upbeat rapids]

erratic deck not erratic enough

[lofty shuttle]

True

What should caveman review next

[half swallow]

I think erratic is good enough to not be broken

Its pretty much starting with deck fixing

[lofty shuttle]

Yeah hehe

It's pretty nice :3

How do I delete this post btw

Do I just delete the original message

[thick silo]

I think that does it? You could also close it manually in the settings iirc

[lofty shuttle]

I can't delete it 😢

Hopefully a mod closes this post

[thick silo]

Lmao you can just let it die

[lofty shuttle]

Yeah fair :3

[proper fox]

Never shall die

[compact storm]

Dawg

Just delete the post

Close it

Or whatever

You cannnnnnn

[lofty shuttle]

I can?

How tf do I close it lmao

This post sucks pls kill it

[frozen field]

HOW DID YOU DO THAT

wait don't answer that I'm so dumb

[thick silo]

...change the post name??

[frozen field]

yeah i figured how to do it