#Pluto and Mercury shouldn't scale mult

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

zenith snow
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The reason for the rework is that some planets like Uranus really have no use outside of niche scenarios (like with pants for 2 pair) and that you're better off just pair-maxing the whole game. If Uranus gave the +1 mult and +20 chips as it does now but Mercury only gave +15 chips, I'd have a reason to take it.

(This is assuming that blue seal doesn't get an insane nerf: I know it's being nerfed in some way but this is balancing around the game as it currently is)

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Really dumb idea but I'm bored

ornate frigate
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They should give +4

gritty harbor
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should do the same for Jupiter, flushes should be noob bait balatrojoker

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but realistically this kills so much stuff, Burnt and Spoker being the main things hurt

fading nimbus
fading nimbus
gritty harbor
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but the main thing that REALLY needs the nerf is blue seal, Burnt is rare and Spoker barely works elsewhere

zenith snow
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Burnt is a free win

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Plus it'd be sick trying to discard 2 pair or 3oak with burnt, but you have no incentive to currently

fading nimbus
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Burnt is fine if you're playing the game like a normal human but if you're doing lil dookie hands I've heard it gets goofy

zenith snow
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Burnt is such a free win with pairs, you get way too much payoff from it

gritty harbor
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I think if this happens checkered deck unironically becomes pretty meta at high stakes

fading nimbus
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So 2-pair is +20 chips +1 mult
3-OaK is +20 chips +2 mult
Do those level up values specifically feel like they're fine?

fading nimbus
gritty harbor
zenith snow
fading nimbus
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Sure sure sure I'm just assessing a baseline

zenith snow
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As a baseline yeah they're solid

fading nimbus
zenith snow
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I think the problem is just pair and high card, you could nerf them to be +5 and +10 chips respectively, but that feels a little boring

fading nimbus
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They're boring hands

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2 pair is literally twice the pair of a pair so double the chip gain would make sense

zenith snow
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Just curious: was this nope because it should give less chips instead, or because the planets are fine as is?

ornate frigate
ornate frigate
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Not sure if removing mult is the way to go though because often times when i play pairs i have a joker that gives mult

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Rtb, half jonker, stuff like that

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I also doubt this would kill burnt because i’ve used burnt with green joker (meaning burnt is effectively +15 chips only) and it still went crazy

zenith snow
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Like 10-20 mercury cards is a pretty large chunk of mult gone, but you still have all the chips

novel sluice
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Oh my gosh YES finally someone who understands-

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HC and Pairs are inherently too easy to use to feel gratifying to play. There should be another force pushing you back up from the “boredom” and back to the state of flow.

ornate frigate
long karma
fading nimbus
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There was another suggestion to replace the -1 discard from whatever stale it is since THAT lends itself to the unreliability big hands

long karma
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Yeah that's a change that should 101% happen, and part of me remembers Thunk saying he's gonna address it

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But on Pluto/Mercury case, I think Uranus and Earth should get buffs rather than Pluto and Mercury get nerfs

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Also for overall with planets, I think they could totally take advantage of decimals. Like Earth giving 2.5 or Pluto giving .5

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If Pluto had to be nerfed

fading nimbus
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honestly, yeah some 0.5s wouldn't be that weird

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you can already get decimal mult in vanilla

long karma
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Yeah

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Decimals would also allow planets to get buffed without stepping on each other

primal pike
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i don't think this adjustment would have any practical change to gameplay

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the powerful bit of planets is the +chips

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even on most crazy blue seal runs, for pairs and high card you get most of your mult from scaling +mult jokers

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sure you can get +30 if you have +30 pairs which is non negligible

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but unless you are going completely ballistic, even with blue seals you won't get +30 pairs until ante 7/8ish

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in which case it's not really strong enough to subsitute a joker

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it can be sometimes

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it'll let you use two xMults instead of 1 +Mult, 1 xMult

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but this is niche

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the most crazy of the most crazy blue seal runs wouldn't be affected whatsoever because they'd still be a free win

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and 95% of other runs where you play high level pair, you'll be supplementing with a +Mult joker anyway

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maybe a better way to do it would just to be remove high card entirely, and have pairs scale by +10 chips or +5

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they'd still be the best though

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they're good because they're consistent, not because they're strong

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so if you wanted to weaken them

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making them less strong is meaningless

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you should make them less consistent instead

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and at the same time make bigger hands more consistent

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it's bad that the best strategy is the most braindead, and that you can consistently win by just forcing pair

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but it would be worse if there was no consistent strategy at all

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anyway. i'm retreading a lot of ground

primal pike
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having 0.5 show up in the results is one thing

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although it's almost always rounded out

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having it on a joker is a completely different thing

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a lot of balatros design is in its eloquence

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in the way that a complex and intricate effect can be worded so simply

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almost to the point where it's like a slap in the face

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this is a large reason why the blue seal is hard to balance

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a lot of the obvious solutions make its effect less eloquent

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i'm not explaining myself very well here

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don't bother responding, i doubt this will lead to an interesting discussion due to how scattered my point it

novel sluice
fading nimbus
novel sluice
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Its difficult to balance utility and complexity, hence the blue seal issue as the example.

Unless you use a long description and complex wording it'd be hard to balance it to not be either terrible or utterly broken (like it was/is)

worldly ledge
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username checks out

tepid stag
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I agree with this post