astral brook
Common
Opposite to Green Joker, it would give +1 mult for every discard you use and -1 for every hand you play. Gives +3 chips for every discard you use, and -3 chips for every hand you play.
Only problem is, when you use green joker, you arent forced to use discards. You need hands in order to score, so maybe -1 for every 2 hands played?
manic thicket
Would it not be a chip joker to further contrast?
serene cradle
Yeah and since you usually discard more than you play hands, it would just be a direct upgrade
serene cradle
Id say +1 chip and -1 or -2 mult
manic thicket
Well
serene cradle
+2 chip -3 mult?
manic thicket
Castle gives 3 per individual card you discarded
I wouldn't do chip and mult personally
astral brook
Yeah I wasnt thinking both, just chips now
kind epoch
yeah just chip sounds good
astral brook
Yeah I gotchu
astral brook
Thats what I was thinking too actually 😭
kind epoch
definetly needs to be more than +1 chips tho, +3 or +4 sounds balanced
astral brook
I like +-3
manic thicket
Now make art for it
astral brook
Lemme do super scuffed art
kind epoch
manic thicket
Why not color shift the green joker lmao
astral brook
So incredibly . Not good
😭
But! It has the two dangly things that the chip jokers have instead of three that the mult jokers have
Except even steven I dont think he has three that wouldnt match his theme
manic thicket
But! It has the two dangly things that the chip jokers have instead of three tha...
Oh smart
nocturne sky
This scales so insanely slow and has the issue of if your hands are oneshotting (which they need to in order to actually scale), you don’t need +3 chips
You use two discards for +6 chips and you play one hand for -3 chips, that’s still a net +3 chips. If you don’t oneshot and take two hands this does nothing. Any more than that and you’re actively losing chips with this
This would honestly need to be +10/-5 to even be considerable and even then it would feel bad to play with since you’re constantly lowering its value unavoidably
opal ledge
It could just not decrease on hand played. I know that would make it not an exact mirror, but right now it would be a more often than not worse square joker
astral brook
This would honestly need to be +10/-5 to even be considerable and even then it w...
Yeah that would be the biggest problem with this, lowering the value is unavoidable while you can choose not to discard with green joker
Maybe +10/-3?
I wouldn’t want it to give too many chips
south elm
Square joker scale faster at the cost of your remaining hand. Square joker also doesnt work well in 5 card hand build. Square joker cant scale well if you are one shoting the build.
I think this is decent enough to be added.
I think the effect is fine, but the number needs to change a bit to be better than castle.
opal ledge
I mean, if you are one shotting blinds, it's +3/6 chips per blind depending on difficulty without red deck or discard synergy
I think the losing chips on played hands, despite being thematic, just feels a bit bad
Cause unlike skipping your discards, you can't avoid playing hands.
It could only decrease for hands beyond your first hand?
south elm
You can usually discard to find a one shotable hand in most build, and discard doesnt cost you money to use. If the number is -10/+10 chip, then I think its good enough compared to runner and castle.
Also this provide +chip once you use all your discard, which further helps you one shot the build.
serene cradle
This scales so insanely slow and has the issue of if your hands are oneshotting ...
With red deck youd get about +15 chips and only -3 per hand if you can play a good hand
So about +12 or +9 per blind
Id say thats very good scaling
And if you get extra discards itd be even better
Well ok not VERY good, but for how flexible it is for any type of build, i like it
Also you get to keep the money from hands played, since most other scalers require you to play a hand type
I’d like that ngl
south elm
People say using hand are mandatory, but many build would actually discard for a best hand (except highcard). So you are most likely going to use all your discard before your hand (except highcard). That is also why Mystic Summit is often more useful then Delayed Gratification (except highcard).
nocturne sky
???
serene cradle
You still get +9 or +12 per blind if youre playing smart though
south elm
1. You physically cannot win without playing a hand
2. Mystic Summit is complete...
nocturne sky
It's a silly comparison that doesn't really prove anything
south elm
You still get +9 or +12 per blind if youre playing smart though
-3/+3 is still worse then castle, I think -10/+10 could be better.
serene cradle
Wait just need to be clear, is the joker scaling, or is it adding to the score for that blind?
Cus i thought it was scaling
nocturne sky
Scaling
I'm working under the assumption of scaling and why -3/+3 is complete garbage
south elm
Castle can give up to +15 chip per discard, and I agree +3 chip per discard is terrible.
serene cradle
How much chips per blind on average do both of y’all think would be good?
Im just going with 15ish since its close to runner
south elm
+20 chip if used 3 discard and 1 hand seems like a good spot for me.
south elm
That would be +40/+30 chip per round
nocturne sky
In what world do you get 5 discards normally
You start with 2
Yes I know of vouchers + red deck + that one Joker, that's not consistent and is a bad baseline
serene cradle
Ok 3
amber idol
Square joker scale faster at the cost of your remaining hand. Square joker also ...
i'm not saying square is good
south elm
You start with 2
2? That is not a good baseline either.
south elm
Fine
nocturne sky
I didn't even say to use 2 as a baseline, just that you start with 2, you can't look at it under the perfect circumstances
amber idol
this is +3 chips per blind on any stake higher than blue which is absolutely pathetic
at best, if you're not oneshotting blinds either
serene cradle
Alright fair enough
south elm
I said change the number to 10 and its good.
nocturne sky
If we compare it to Odd Todd essentially being +155 chips, it takes 52 rounds to pass it
serene cradle
I just feel if it gets to 10 it’d be out doing its green brother
amber idol
balance aside this is inherently unoriginal
serene cradle
Maybe they need to buff green then lmao
amber idol
green joker is fine
nocturne sky
balance aside this is inherently unoriginal
That too, I wouldn't want this as a concept tbh
And even if it was balanced, it wouldn't be fun
Discarding with Ramen feels garbage, and this is essentially that but every hand you play
south elm
But it works so differently from the green joker. I think it is worth considering.
nocturne sky
I've been considering it and I don't like it
amber idol
But it works so differently from the green joker. I think it is worth considerin...
one joker being the exact opposite of another is a boring idea
there isnt anything you can really do about that while preserving the original idea
nocturne sky
We need Chipbo, Jimbo but it's +30 chips
serene cradle
Already making the fan art lmao
south elm
But this is a discard base scaler that require you to utilize your discard and hand. If anything, green joker is the boring one that copy the og bus.
nocturne sky
This seems like a less interesting Banner
serene cradle
But this is a discard base scaler that require you to utilize your discard and h...
sactly!! Therefore, kill the green joker