Blackhole rework

[knotty skiff]

Randomly split 24 upgrades across every poker hand.

i think we all know the current blackhole is too underpowered for how rare it is (1 in 333)
and it's also somewhat boring

but i think this change makes it better / more interesting

[latent elbow]

Very excited for the new seed - Erratic 10 spade first pack has a black hole that gives 24 F Fives

[quasi relic]

Thats assuming that the rounding error rounds to flush fives, I could see it more likely to round to something like high cards

[ripe skiff]

I think we also need to know whether this can distribute the upgrades into secret hands not played in the run.
IIRC current Black Hole upgrades the not played secret hands also, allowing you to play a LV2+ secret hand as your first 5oak in the run etc.

[knotty skiff]

it wouldn't

to avoid confusing new players

but it would if they're unlocked

[raw atlas]

Black Hole is explicitly built to increase all hansd in equal measure INCLUDING hidden hands just to make it this obscure spectral card. Doesn't need 24 individual random upgrades, it's also too many upgrades for 12 hands

[heady merlin]

but then you realize it's the same rarity as soul, and when you find black hole in spectral pack you realize that could have been soul

black hole is definitely in top 5 worst spectral cards, if not even top3

and it needs a big, big buff to justify it being exceptionally rare

or just don't make it as rare as soul

you get +1 level on every hand, and at the same rarity you could get any of the legendaries including perkeo or triboulet

the black hole is interesting maybe like for the first time you find it

every other time you're just sad you found it

(especially with constellation)

this buff makes it different every single time you're gonna use it, making it more interesting

also would allow for some interesting pivots if one of the hands gets leveled way more than the rest

[heady merlin]

also author stated that it wouldn't work on not unlocked hands during the run, making it only 9 poker hands most of the runs instead of 12

unless they meant unlocked as in collection which i guess makes more sense

[raw atlas]

That low chance is when you find it in a planet pack.

And either case, leveling up every hand is still a great boon to have.

If I find wraith, ankh, hex and black hole in a spectral pack, I'm taking black hole.

[heady merlin]

that's a really specific scenario where you mention one of the worst spectrals (wraith) and two niche/early game spectrals (ankh and hex)

just because black hole is the best outcome on average in your specific scenario, it doesn't make it good

and don't forget that all of them except black hole are normal spectrals commonly found in pack while black hole is that 0.3% outlier

[raw atlas]

Which other spectral cards we have? Aura, Ectoplasm, Soul, Familiar, Immolate....

Like all of them feel very HEAVILY situational

Black Hole is literally "have this levelup on everything" that has no consequence what so ever

Sigil? Losing on some suits for RNG. Ouja? Hello smaller hand size. Ectoplasm? Same.

Aura is a good one sure.

[heady merlin]

calling immolate very heavily situational is just a robbery lol

its the best spectral card on pair with soul

[thin shore]

But then you realize chicot is the same rarity as perkro, seance is the same rarity as blueprint. Rarity means nothing.
Most spectral are untakeable in many situation, you wont take any card adding ones in 5oak/straight build, you wont take sigil in a flush build, you wont take wraith if you have five good jokers. However, you know what is always takeable? Blackhole.

[raw atlas]

Say you're trying to build special carsd, you get immolate, and it selects your good cards that you're trying to copy

like it selects your red sigil or purple sigil

then you immolate and woops

Black hole is like finding a random Hermit when opening an arcana pack. Are you gonna be mad it's not the utility arcana you wanted?

20$ is still 20$.

[heady merlin]

1. seance is not the same rarity as blueprint as of 1.0.1 update
2. chicot is still a really good outcome
3. blackhole is not even always takeable since constellation exists
4. you just cannot justify black hole being 0.3% card that levels your most played hand by one level since yes - most of the time you're just playing one specific hand and not every 12

[heady merlin]

it is definitely not like finding random hermit since random 20$ is 10 times more valuable than +1 planet level on your hand

you know what

im done

🥲

everybody has their own opinion

[thin shore]

How does constellation make blackhole untakeable? 😂

[heady merlin]

black hole does not increase constellation's xmult

[raw atlas]

It you find it in a PLANET pack.

If you opened a SPECTRAL pack expecting a PLANET card, I say your logic is at fault.

[knotty skiff]

nah this is what i meant

[knotty skiff]

you miss the point that it's just 1 in 333 chance for 1 level up that doesn't even work with satellite/constellation

[raw atlas]

Point remains. It's meant to increase also hidden hands. And so many random upgrades is still too much. It's ONE card that has the effect of 12 planet cards at once.

[knotty skiff]

and who cares if you're never gonna touch the other hands

[raw atlas]

Then you simply don't take it.

if I have a good set of jokers and I find a soul, I ignore it

I don't need a chicot, thank you very much game.

[knotty skiff]

so you hate fun got it

[raw atlas]

No i hate ruining my build at the offchance of getting a joker that I need to build around and completely pivot my run late in the game.

[knotty skiff]

i agree that you can't take soul 5% of the time

but most the time you're excited enough to empty one space

[raw atlas]

Make it more like 40%. If you find Soul perhaps before ante 5, you can try to make it work, but after that and you don't have something going, you're not gonna be able to waste hands and build around.

It's REALLY risky.

And most of the time not worth it. unless you have nothing going then gamble away.

[thin shore]

You claimed it is the top 5 worst spectral, I said it is more takeable than most spectral in most run, then you claim it is terrible as a planet card?
If you think chicot is good because it sometime help you in a boss, then I will say blackhole is good because you sometime play other hand.
If seance is no longer a rare, then I will use sixth sense as my example.

[torpid shoal]

Sometimes you play a hand and sometimes you dont die to a boss has very different weight

[knotty skiff]

well i guess there's just different play styles

I'm the type to take a wraith with $50

[torpid shoal]

One of them is one planet level and one of them is winning the run (if you really wanna be picky and pedantic, its retcon, which is atleast 20 dollars)

[raw atlas]

One of them occupies a slot doing nothing most of the time, or doing something that could have been avoided.

I prefer my black hole.

At least that one helps me score

There is literally a topic here on discord every week of someone saying "buff Chicot" and then making an idea of their own

it should tell you how MANY people feel about it

anyway that's a big derail.

[torpid shoal]

Yea so is buff obelisk

People are dumb

[thin shore]

It is not directly comparable, I am just trying to say blackhole can be useful. I am well aware that blackhole is not as good as the soul.

I am against "it should be as strong as soul due to its rarity". Not everything must be strong and useful, it can be fun to have a unique but weak effect.

[torpid shoal]

How is black hole unique

Like in what world its unique

I wouldnt say and effect equivalent to "buying 3 celestial packs" is unique

[thin shore]

I think its design is more unique and fitting for balatro than 24 level spread across all hand?

[torpid shoal]

No?

[thin shore]

How is that different from "buying 24 celestial pack"

[torpid shoal]

The 24 level spread is as unique as the 1 level per hand, but atleast more useful

[torpid shoal]

Its more like 1-2 orbital tags

Please do actually think about what the equivalent is

[thin shore]

I am saying I think blackhole is unique with its design, and you are saying this suggestion is more useful. I am talking about I like it design-wise, yet you keep saying it is bad balance-wise?

[torpid shoal]

And im still saying its not even unique

[verbal geyser]

yeah black hole is just a planet that doesnt even work with planet effects. this rework would make it so that if you got it early, it could be a potential pivot which leads to interesting play

[quasi relic]

Finding black hole is rarer than finding the planet you actually want. Hence it should be more valuable to the planet you want. Why not double the level of all hands?

That way it’s still helpful early and late game

[muted rune]

+3 to all hands would probably be balanced

that's like an orbital for every hand

which for how rare it is would absoloutely have the kick it needs

[scenic veldt]

but it doesn't cost you anything extra to find it

[muted rune]

it's insanely rare, it needs to feel like a reward

not slightly better planet

[verbal geyser]

it also doesnt cost you anything extra to find soul

both have the same rarity

[junior fog]

neither does the Soul

[quasi relic]

You accidentally dug up an ancient generations saught treasure! Oh but it was an accident so it should be considered worthless...

[placid frigate]

If you have constellation it's even a worse planet lol

[stark falcon]

I do wish Black Hole was more interesting

Maybe if it gave 3 negative planets of your most played hand or most leveled hand or something

[scenic veldt]

but it's not worthless, it's a free level up for every planet at the same time

"I'm so mad that I only randomly found 10 dollars on the street, it should've been 50 dollars"

[scenic veldt]

you're right, I agree that the legendary jokers should be weaker

so that they're less centralizing

[verbal geyser]

its weaker than a regular planet though

[scenic veldt]

no, a regular planet levels up only one hand at once

[verbal geyser]

fool, constellation

and when are you realistically playing multiple hand types

besides like obelisk

[scenic veldt]

by that logic, canio is worse than abstract joker because you may be playing on the abandoned deck

[verbal geyser]

you're comparing apples to oranges here. a deck type =/= a specific tarot card

for being a 1.5% chance at best to find in a pack as it is having little to no reward over just a regular planet is laughable

this proposed suggestion would both make it less of a complete joke and lead to interesting play in the way of pivoting because you got a lot of levels on some poker hand

[stark falcon]

as is i see it as a "wild" planet and am only really kinda thrilled to find it super early, functioning as an ante 1 jupiter or saturn

[verbal geyser]

is it even good then either though

[scenic veldt]

I'm not against the rework but I don't believe it's necessary

[stark falcon]

in a planet pack sure, i doubt i have a constellation that early and dont usually see satellite, and it would allow me to go for flushes if i cant draw my straight (or vice versa).

in a spectral pack, i would rather find a soul, grim, familiar, immolate, wraith, ahnk, or hex, with maybe a medium, talisman, or trance if i have any other sources of scoring, maybe even a sigil if the first boss isnt a suit boss and maybe a ouija if im feeling zesty

[scenic veldt]

I view it as if there was a .5% chance to find the default joker except it gives +5 mult instead

there's no actual downside to finding it, not everything rare has to be broken

or even particularly good

[stark falcon]

As is I don't think it is very interesting. Which isn't the end of the world, the game isn't bad because black hole exists, but I also think it should be changed a bit in some way as for as rare as it is I wish it did more or was more interesting.

[slate mantle]

Maybe if it felt more "Spectral" in its design, where there's both an upside and a downside

[stark falcon]

I was thinking about that, but tbf there are a fair bit of Spectrals that don't have direct downsides- Sigil, Cryptid, Trance, Medium, Talisman, Aura, Deja Vu, Soul, and Black Hole

[slate mantle]

This is true, but still, having Blackhole be a devil's bargain could give it that zing people are hungry

[stark falcon]

Yeah though if it had a downside it would DEFINITELY need a buff lol

[slate mantle]

Yeh yeh yeh yeh I'm talking full top to bottom rework of what the card does

Like "your most played hand absorbs one level from all other hands"

[novel bay]

honestly

yall are just haters

black hole is fine

it doesnt need a total rework - just make it more powerful for how rare it is

or more common for how not-powerful it is

[knotty skiff]

honey wake up they nerfed constellation

[candid stirrup]

blackhole will never appear alone in a Planet pack

constellation will still be able to get their +x.1 mult

[knotty skiff]

is that a challenge

[candid stirrup]

I dont think theres any way to get 1 card packs

[knotty skiff]

don't challenge showman

[candid stirrup]

unless you mod the game

Oh

right

showman exists

goodluck getting 3 0.3% chances

[slate mantle]

writing it down before I forget but what if there was a joker that let you pick +1 card from planet packs

like a rover or something

[knotty skiff]

well i did suggest something similar before

and like 4 people after