#X Mult separate from + Mult

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

slender flame
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So this is mostly a thought experiment rather than something I want to be added, but what would you think if X mult was acting as if it was X score. So it goes as the 3rd value like
Chips * (Base hand mult + flat mult from jokers/enhancements) * Xmult (bloodstone, idol, baron etc.)

The idea is that a lot of flat mult jokers feel pretty underwhelming with steel/glass cards, also for the less experienced players it might not be 100% clear what scores and when, leading to players maybe underestimating some jokers due to their first impressions.

Also for combinations like Raised fist/Shoot the moon + Steel cards / Baron, it feels pretty tedious to move cards around for the most optimal scoring, though that's for another time.

So far I think this change would definitely offset the balance for the ante 8 context, and probably make less players invest into the planets, while using steel cards more, but other than that what do you think if such change was considered?

patent peak
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honestly i gotta say i really like this, though of course some xmult may need to be nerfed (steel cards become rediculous immediately)
just makes xmult work with joker multipliers and stops ordering being such a huge issue
while we're at xscore, i'd also love if debuffed cards had an xscore of < 1, such that they're actually a threat (makes window, goad, club, head, plant, pillar, verdant actually a threat, even if you've not enhanced your deck)

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e.g. 1 debuffed card is 0.8x
a hand of 5 (think verdant with no joker sold) would be ~x0.33

strong wedge
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you'd have to nerf a lot of things

patent peak
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true

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but i wouldn't feel so much like i'm going for one type of build or another

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e.g. i never use glass/steel cuz i'm already using flat mult jokers

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from ante 1

spring mulch
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A debuffed card already doesn't grant you its score and its enhancements. If you wanted it to grant you a reducing multiplier, then you should bring back its base. Otherwise it's just way too detrimental.

patent peak
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didn't wanna make the suggestion too complex

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at this point it's not really debuffed though, it's something else

proper condor
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i feel like having xmult as it is now is a good way to give the game more depth, learning the game to see the way score works is a real interesting for me, how orders in the 3 different scoring phases interact which each other, really gives more depth to the game and differentiate a good play and a great play

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also the problem with shoot the moon/raised fist/baron/steel can be easily fix with a lock button on the screen that locks the order on your cards

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like, just make this

image.png
slender flame
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yea I know about hand sorting, it's more like an added bonus

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it's still a bit tedious to move stuff around whenever you draw the cards

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with jokers its much easier since they dont reset from round to round

proper condor
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Yea its more a qol stuff than actual gameplay

fallow depot
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Even if it is seperated, x just felt a lot better than +, and xscore would still be better than +mult. Also, 3 value would means there are three type of unrelated unit. In Chip x Mult x Score, some how chip is giving +20~100, mult is giving +3~20, score is only giving +0.1~3. For new players, why wouldnt they choose +chip?

Currently, chip and mult has different characteristics. Chip has high base value but dont have xchip. Mult has low base value but it can be xmult. Although it makes no different in scoring, it enable the variety of designing effects. Imagine if chip and mult are the same, then the game would have less interesting design and there would be less player decision making.

Moving card around to maximize the score is probably the intended design, or else thunk would have not make played hand rearrangeable.

tranquil nacelle
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me when i play around shoot the moon and every hand it screws my steel queens

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🥲

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biggest downside of shoot the moon

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moving the queens after every hand

patent peak
proper condor
patent peak
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i think weird xmult ordering does sometimes make me feel like i'm locked out of steel cards and bloodstone and such

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well it always makes me feel that way

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would be nice to have those options always available to me but if my score ordering isn't there then uhhh

proper condor
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This is why im a jupiter truther

patent peak
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sorry my level 1 hand isn't benefitting a lot from steel :c

proper condor
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Bloodstone and jupiters are a winning strategy

patent peak
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i don't like relying too hard on a single hand type anyway and i find planeting two hands doesn't work for me

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the eye can take you out pretty fast

slender flame
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it's super tedious to play with

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raised fist / steel is always the worst

fallow depot
slender flame
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with shoot the moon you can at least make steel 10s or jacks

patent peak
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i just want debuffed cards to be an issue :c

proper condor
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Just give us an option to lock the hand and new cards added to the right, atleast that way we only need to sort new cards

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I want to keep my blue seals as far left as possible so i dont misplay and discard it by accident

fallow depot
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I thought the main discussion was 3 different scoring factor, not raised fist.

slender flame
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yea it still is, the moving cards around is more like an extra on top of it

patent peak
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it's talking about scoring order being an issue

slender flame
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another issue I just thought of, how would X score work on plasma

patent peak
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addition is commutative, unfortunately when xmult gets thrown in it's not so easy

proper condor
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3 different scoring phases tickles my brain like yugioh, i dont want it to change 🙂

slender flame
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is it still multiplying the mult before balance

patent peak
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it just so happens to be xscore for every situation except plasma

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cuz multiplication lol

proper condor
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Xmult IS Xscore if its on a after scoring joker

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It will always be that

patent peak
slender flame
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yea basically

tranquil nacelle
slender flame
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I dont mean it to be a separate in UI

proper condor
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I dont like talking about plasma in these scenario

patent peak
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yeah that'd be ugly

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it's like we want all xmult to be applied at the end but that's hard to display in-game without being really ugly

proper condor
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Plasma is just the weird kid

patent peak
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like an x on the multiplier box

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wonder how easy it'd be to mod this in

fallow depot
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xmult being separated was shown to be not good. Bingle Bingle is another roguelike and it has 3 scoring factor, the factor are less characterized and it felt less interesting than balatro's chip and mult.

patent peak
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in one case

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we're looking at how to make some xmult less specialised or if it's worth doing

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i personally like the idea as a flat mult fan who scrambles to find any source of xmult

proper condor
patent peak
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since glass/steel/a lot of the jokers are a no-go

patent peak
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did you just do that?

proper condor
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yea just now

patent peak
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impressive honestly

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that's no poor photoshop (aside from it sticking into the game screen :p)

proper condor
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i make too much photoshop shitpost

patent peak
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i'm also pushing my own agenda of making debuffed cards more dangerous

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but also more fair

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i like bosses that challenge all builds

slender flame
patent peak
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for me it'd add more depth, tho that's just my playstyle

proper condor
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yea balatro on surface is real clean, i like it

patent peak
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i don't like retrigger builds/card enhancements

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i'm usually not one to deck manip too much

proper condor
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my life for a hanging chad

patent peak
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i'd like to start using them tho but by the time i can get them going my ante 1 and 2 jokers are carrying

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mult cards just seem like a bad joke

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how is +4 worth it at all, and worse still, on a single card????

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even with retrigx2 that's +12

proper condor
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ok but 20 dollars

patent peak
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idk i'd just like ride the bus/green joker plz

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from lucky?

proper condor
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yes

patent peak
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never hits 😔

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tho i think lucky is the enhancement i take the most just cuz money

proper condor
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mult cards is just not good i agree

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but mult cards looks so cool

patent peak
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tru

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and then there's the card debuff mechanic

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where your build can get destroyed because pillar idk

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but pillar is a boring boss to my builds soooo

proper condor
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i think its fine that some builds are stronger to other bosses than others

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probably from my StS brain thinking awakened one defect runs

patent peak
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i agree with posing a challenge but dont' agree with blatant shutdown