1.0.1c Experimental

[summer pine]

definitely the most interesting to play around in my experience

[rare elm]

they're challenging to force, just playing flushes all the time gets boring

my white stake hand is straight flushes instead of straights

[fervent beacon]

saturn is correct but I want to dupe venus even though the planet scaling is pretty low

[rare elm]

I tried to do straight flushes on gold stake and failed miserably around ante 6-7 two times

because didn't draw the hand 😭

[summer pine]

Yeah I've tried a couple times but it's a lot harder to transition your deck on gold stake cuz of all the other resource drains

just straights scale fine tho

[rare elm]

I saw drspectred made a video doing straight flushes on gold stake winstreak

absolute madman

[fervent beacon]

most of his wins are straights

oh lord we're going ham ig

is buying both and the voucher too greedy?

[fervent beacon]

gdi run lost to the mouth

that was so good too

i prob could have just played 2 pairs

[astral kayak]

flushes are the easiest big hand to achieve w/ tarot manipulation

[modern kiln]

Another gold stake down + popcorn stickered

[forest bloom]

well its not entirely un-tweak-able. you can just give it more money to start

its definitely not CLEAN design but

it does work

[jade horizon]

Congrats! You have made worse Yellow Deck

[forest bloom]

in addition to the other stuff already there

[jade horizon]

If we give Black more money to start, it's just an inferior version of Yellow

[tulip leaf]

depends on how much money

[jade horizon]

Even if it's $5 extra dollars, idk why anyone would play Black over Yellow outside of stakes

[tulip leaf]

I mean, +1 joker slot is a lot

the problem is that the joker slot doesn't help early, while the -1 hand makes earlygame brutal

[tiny grail]

what about "+1 joker slot -1 hand size" instead of losing a hand

[faint anchor]

Why does the game register certain hands as 4oaks instead of flushes lol

[round plume]

4 of a kind is a higher hand than a flush

[faint anchor]

I know I can play the 10 for the flush but it just feels weird sometimes that this just is the way it is

[round plume]

game picks highest possible hand per the order in run info

[faint anchor]

had a feeling it was that thanks

[burnt lichen]

NO
that's worse

[thick rock]

maybe a monetary downside? something that doesn't heavily impact early game while still adding decent challenge throughout, like nerfing the amount econ jokers give? not sure on an exact value, but that might strike a good balance

[hidden cargo]

I think black deck is just hard to balance with the way they wanna do it

[thick rock]

remove all the downsides and upsides, completely default

[tulip leaf]

also remove cards, jokers, and blinds and add chess

fixes all the balance issues

[burnt lichen]

and changes deck art to this

(:

[thick rock]

as an alternative, leave only basic cards and have the blinds play go fish against you

[foggy mantle]

its the black deck, just make it blackjack

[rare elm]

well this was a funny run lol

started with 12 8s

got a funny 8ball ante 7

sold errosion and cavendish for invisible and 8ball stickers 😹

and probably the smallest deck I've gotten on gold stake non-endless

buffed glass joker is pretty fun

[rare elm]

😭

[spare shuttle]

buy buffon pack, find bp/bs, sell for 5, buy spectral pack, find immolate, have money for foil 4f

[rare elm]

buffoon had ice cream 😭

and ofc run died because I couldn't draw a 10 on needle 😭 4 fings would be so helpful

[rare elm]

The Soul (on any stake other than gold), should prioritise undiscovered legendary jokers.
I saw someone asking about it #🕹・game-discussion message, and in my opinion this would make a lot of sense for new players (easier time to do 100% collection).
We already have similar logic for gold stickers - why not have it on lower difficulties for those who just want to finish their collection.

This logic could potentially be disabled on seeded runs, if there's concern for seeds being a bit inconsistent for different players. I assume the gold sticker logic is also disabled on seeded runs? Not 100% sure how that works

[long breach]

at this point I'd accept "Start on Ante 0" as an added balance for Black Deck lol

[fast plover]

Where is the thunk?
I saw him active on twitter, but it's been 2 weeks since his last discord message

Hopefully he is looking at the feedback and drop the update soon

[rare elm]

He's been much less active on discord since the full release

[rare elm]

But I do hope for this is the case

[static wyvern]

I bet he has a lot of stuff to do for Balo

[rare elm]

I don't really care when the update drops, since playing on experimental branch is basically the same, but it's weird that it's been delayed (was planned to release in a week after coming to public experimental)

[static wyvern]

other than patch 1.0.1c

[forest bloom]

there were seemingly performance issues

[rare elm]

Yeah, I know

with steam deck

[static wyvern]

he's practically a single dev, so if he has irl issues atm that could effect the update pacing

no?

[round plume]

i believe when the game picks a random seed, it checks to see if the legendary joker is one you have not gotten the sticker with yet, and rerolls if not

so rather than actually modifying the outcome of the seed it picks a seed that has the desired outcome, so anyone could use that same seed and get the same run

[rare elm]

oh really

[round plume]

#🕹・game-discussion message

When you are in gold stake unseeded, if you have a gold sticker on at least 1 legendary but fewer than all 5, the game ‘simulates’ the first legendary of the seed and regenerates it until it has found a seed with an unstickered legendary.

[rare elm]

that's pretty interesting I guess

[modern kiln]

That's really interesting wow

[rare elm]

hmm, I wonder if such logic would still work on <gold stake

[round plume]

i'm sure it would, i think the question is if it "should"

[rare elm]

like, resources wise

basically seed searcher inside the game lol

having that executed for every run, until all legendaries are discovered

[round plume]

if it's just until you unlock all 5 that could be fine?

but yeah thunk would know the performance/resource cost to doing that

[broken needle]

It doesn’t actually affect seed RNG, it just generates random seeds that have a viable legendary as its first legendary

[rare elm]

I think such a qol feature would be very handy for new players who just want to see all legendaries, but performance of such feature is concerning 🤔

[sour hare]

Hi. Does anyone know when experimental branch is going to become official branch?

[rare elm]

It was planned to release 1 week ago, but since it hasn't come out yet, there's some delay/issues. We don't rly know anything other than that

[summer pine]

A hand like this won't allow you to trigger "hand contains a flush" effects right?

Since it's 4oak, the 5th card won't score

Which feels so strange considering "contains a 3oak" or "contains a pair" can still proc when you play a flush with a duplicate card

[rare elm]

it does trigger contains a flush effect

[acoustic crypt]

wait was it really already planned to go main branch already?

[acoustic crypt]

ah dang i didnt even register that part of the message

probably still working on steam deck issues i remember him asking for deck specific feedback

[rare elm]

probably

we don't rly know so can only speculate

only black deck left 😭 I need some mental preparation before that one

[stone warren]

just reset more

[sour hare]

Well, anyway thank you for the answer

[dull sphinx]

I like that thunk is going at his own pace. I just want him to release whenever he wants

I didn’t know he said it’d be in a week tho

[fervent beacon]

shit.

[stone warren]

rip

[fervent beacon]

late game painted deck moment

[stone warren]

I just realized that I managed to dodge violet vessel so many times in my gold stake grind

the worst run killer ever

[fervent beacon]

......................................

horrible run anyways

[stone warren]

xddddd

[dull sphinx]

If I got this I’m p sure I’d hold that R key

Or tap alt f4

On abandoned deck lmao

[edgy creek]

Does it actually substract molt? lol

[burnt lichen]

idk, didn't test it

it was gold steak

[edgy creek]

too bad

[tulip leaf]

it doesn't sadly

[coarse fable]

Perkeo + observatory AND trib? this might be my best run ever

[olive obsidian]

will progress on the experimental branch carry over once it gets pushed to main?

[tulip leaf]

yes

[dull sphinx]

How far this run go

[coarse fable]

I died on like the next ante because apparently straights are really hard to make still

[dull sphinx]

😦

I think high card might be the best one with perkeo. I have yet to get a perkeo observatory run tho

[coarse fable]

Nebula deck might actually be best for trying it, since you start with telescope

I see observatory on almost every run (I'm gold staking that deck right now)

[jade egret]

Damn that aint a golden joker thats a copper joker

[jade horizon]

This is bad because this was the exact issue old gold stake had as well

Good luck playing basically any hands except 3oak/Pair/HC

[summer pine]

plus for hc most scoring comes from jokers anyway so it's just even more of that

[long breach]

I feel like the -1 consumable slot works better on Black Deck than Nebula lol

more Joker buff in exchange for less Planet / Tarot in your possessions

[rare elm]

same
https://discord.com/channels/1116389027176787968/1229438711050272849

[kind eagle]

I like the new gold stake tags, i just feel you see them so much. Like 90% of the jokers have some tag

[granite helm]

72% actually

[snow wagon]

Is the hook downgrading ramen intentional

I’m wondering specifically since hook discard is a boss action and not a player action

[tulip leaf]

I believe so, it is a discard and therefore counts

[fast plover]

Yknow, beginning to appreciate campfire more
I won another straight run, and it, the order and shortcut helped a ton
However, i don't know if it's something i would take really early on, or without the interest vouchers

Eh maybe i would still take it without the voucher

[hardy rock]

new fire is still great. unfortunately new-pyre is just ehhh.

[quasi thistle]

i find vampire to be still good if picked up early, which feels appropriate for a scaling joker. it was a little silly to get a scaling joker on like ante 7 and it immediately says 2x

probably doesnt need to be rare at its current power level but oh well

[spiral comet]

what would be your opinion on vampire's current strength IF we didn't have/know the previous OP iteration of it?

[autumn wigeon]

I'd still consider it bad tbh

[granite helm]

I’d bet most would consider it perfectly fine

It’s still strong

It was just wayyyy overbearing before

[autumn wigeon]

Experimental nerfed it too hard tbh, much harder to scale with only +0.1x and taking away nonscoring, and you're still permanently sacrificing the ability to use glass/lucky/wild

And god help you if you're forced to play a steel card

[hardy rock]

a 3.5x that you spend your economy on and remove your ability to play any on-play card effects is worth it but it's barely worth it. I'd take almost any other X mult over it, and you also can only get it pre-ante 5. Its good enough to pick but its defintely on the lower end of X mults.

[solar oriole]

It does feel like they had 3 ideas of how to nerf Vampire, and just ended up doing all 3. Together it's a bit too nerfed IMO.

[autumn wigeon]

No way they're hard nerfing vampire while also massively buffing lucky cat though

Lucky cat is the real menace, and it got directly buffed to +.25x from +.2x per proc as well as indirect buffs through magician and hanging chad

[rare elm]

I'd still not consider it a rare, because constellation exists

[autumn wigeon]

Oh yeah constellation is just objectively better

[rare elm]

Constellation just guarantees x0.1 when you open a planet pack, and guarantees x0.2 from high priestess

While vampire has great synergies, those require additional joker slots and you still need to find those jokers

[autumn wigeon]

Not to mention that instead of completely sacrificing your economy and/or all your enhanced cards, you're only spending money to upgrade your hands which benefit you either way

[rare elm]

Yes

In like most of my high stake runs I used glass cards to get over the limit

But every time I take vampire there is no such fail safe

[autumn wigeon]

Which brings us to glass joker

[rare elm]

Glass joker is very good now

I sold Cavendish and it still carried me

At 4.75x on gold stake

[autumn wigeon]

Also bloodstone did not deserve that buff, just saying

[rare elm]

It lowkey did, but the Xmult should be lowered to balance it out

[modern kiln]

Still would consider a top joker. Any source of x mult is a source of x mult, and he's easy and after fed unconditional

[winged aurora]

Any news on this update coming to console? It’s a big improvement so I’ve put off my gold joker hunt until it comes.

[autumn wigeon]

He's never unconditional, though. As long as vampire exists, you can NEVER actually use enhancement cards without it being taken and fed to vampire

And xmult is great but unless you have +mult it isn't gonna do much

+mult enhancement can be a pretty big source that's taken away

(And lucky cards if you consider it)

[modern kiln]

Does it matter? I don't think any enhancement other than exactly Glass or Enhanced/Stone if you don't have good chips gives more than 1.1x mult

It has a downside but it's still unconditional; it's like Ramen, as long as you don't do the thing you're forbidden to do you just get it for free, no need for specific hands or cards

[south pendant]

i wouldnt want to lose buffs on cards, i still dont, not even in 1.0.0; vampire doo doo

lets talk about a joker whos never been talked about yet like the marble joker

[autumn wigeon]

Who

[south pendant]

No one ever asked HOW is Marble

marble, glass and kitty jokers are so lest talked about

[hardy rock]

Marble's great on plasma and high card. Pops off with blueprint/ Hologram.

Glass joker isn't a real joker. I'm pretty sure because you hear the glass shatter when you hanged man them, so would guess you can hanged man a glass card to trigger it's effect.

Nothing to say about kitty. Fun strategy. Lucky cards and kitty are probably slightly over-performing because of the strength of bloodstone enabling you to float oops all 6s, and the money-aspect of the double lucky cards, but it's slight at best and will go away if bloodstone is nerfed.

[forest bloom]

you can hanged man a glass card to trigger the buff

[modern kiln]

funny

[mortal sedge]

what??? hilarious

[tiny grail]

Hello DoomZero

[granite helm]

Vampire is semi-retroactive though, if you pick up constellation late it won’t count any previous planets you used, but vampire can still scale off of all the enhancement tarots you’ve used in the run so far

[rare elm]

ok but why would I pick vampire if I'm relying on the enhancements already

[tiny grail]

you got piss enhancements?

[granite helm]

To pivot

Pivoting is fun

[summer pine]

that is kinda like drivers license tho, like if the point is to keep your enhancements or to take advantage of the fact you have them

[long breach]

here we are again with the "oh if you do this and this and that..."

[rare elm]

I mean, sure that could work, sometimes. I won't personally ever wipe my X1.5 steel cards or X2 glass cards for X0.1 growth on the vampire.

Maybe I somehow used tons of basic enhancements tarots, and they don't do anything for me, then I get the vampire, sure that's a great way to pivot!

didn't have a single run like that yet tho

[rare elm]

tho at that point I'd prefer driver's license because it is instantly X3 and does not remove my enhancements 🤷

16 enhanced cards for driver's license = X3, the same number is X2.6 on the vampire, tho you need to draw and play the cards before it's fully online

[dull sphinx]

I got vampire and Midas mask combo for the first time before

Lost cuz I had no base mult lol

It wasn’t that insane tbh