Instead of a score preview, add an in-game calculator

[formal dove]

It's the compromise option that pleases nobody!

I think this would be a better option than the preview. You can't just include the preview as an option, because that would inevitably turn into the "optimal" way to play the game and a lottt of players would feel pressured to use that. You'd end up with a situation where players would turn the score preview on thinking they need every edge they can get and accidentally churning half the fun out of the game in the process. It's a dangerous line to walk!

Calculator though? That adds some extra gameplay (punching your numbers in), it requires enough extra effort that only dedicated players would feel the need to use it, and even then only in dicey situations. And, frankly, I kinda find the idea of a game literally incorporating a calculator into the gameplay loop to be delightful. Balatro's maths isn't even particularly complicated, so you'd only need + x and = buttons.

Potential counterarguments:
There's no point to this, you already have a calculator on your phone
Yeah but a balatro themed calculator would be adorable. Also having it embedded into the game means you don't have to switch applications, and it signals to a player that this is a valid way to approach the game's challenges.

I'm bad at maths! I won't be able to do the calculations!
You were bad at Balatro as well when you first started out. Having a calculator in the game will actively make you better at maths. Can't get better at something without doing it!

Maths isn't fun!!!
Skill issue. Incorrect. Ms Frizzle would be disappointed in you.

I really want a score preview though
Mod the game, then. Score preview is the kind of thing that I think really is so dangerous to the general experience of the game that it's risky to include "officially" in any capacity. I really think it is for the better that there's a large barrier to accessing it, such so that players who absolutely cannot live without it have an option to get it, but players who are kind of ambivalent don't feel like they need it.

This is stupid
Maybe so! Maybe so.

[royal fjord]

[ocean atlas]

I play this game with a real calculator on the side I would love this

Funny idea: when you hit your first scientific notation, unlock the exponent button on the calculator

[formal dove]

Oh I love that

[ocean atlas]

Both because exponentiation is only relevant at high antes and because it'd be a funny moment to "unlock" a calculator function

A mockup Ti-81 that reads Jimbo instruments JI-52 (for the size of a deck) could maybe be fun

I'd also add a balatro university reference but thats just bc I'm a huge fan

[formal dove]

Mocked up two possibilities: a standard one, and a specialised balatro scoring calculator with separate chips and mult

[finite idol]

I think this could be a good unlock for when you beat white stake.

[ocean atlas]

I like the scoring one but I think it should be a toggle between them, both are useful for diff situations

[cosmic summit]

i like this a lot

[ocean atlas]

As someone who already uses a calculator when playing I would rly rly love this change

[cosmic summit]

would still be more tedious than having a score preview but it has the upside of getting to push buttons on a virtual calculator

[ocean atlas]

(and also as a highscore/goldstake player that absolutely hates score preview as a concept)

[cosmic summit]

plus there's a lot of math you need to do that isnt just about individual hand scores

before people get on my ass, i dont literally mean you need to do the math its just useful

[remote pecan]

I imagine some streamer who would like to use it as a joke and count their high card with 2 barons, 3 mimes and 9 steel kings in hand and calculate their score for like 30 minutes (they wouldn't count it as "one king gives 3.375x mult per activation, 3*9 = 27 activations, 3.375**27 = something e something, they would do it like this: mult x 1.5, x 1.5, x 1.5, activate again, x 1.5, x 1.5, x 1.5... etc)

[latent musk]

I have to disagree with this. Balatro is simplistic and tightly designed, the game will be a shadow of its former self once it starts to visually clutter and add unnecessary things to the interface and gameplay loop.

Not to mention the gamedev is really against having a score preview whatsoever. If he will ever succumb to this idea, only time will tell. But if that day comes I think the game will be worse for it.

[finite idol]

thunk says that the core of balatro is the excitement of setting up your rube goldberg machine and just hoping it works. I think that's true for a majority of people, but I think for some people, it's more like engineering a rocket. The excitement comes from understanding the mechanics well enough to design a powerful engine, using the calculator as a testing ground, and then watching the actual flight in-game.

score previews don't fully capture either form of excitement, but this does

[cosmic summit]

deck peek already exists

[latent musk]

Yes, and it already sits between too much or too little in the middle of the twilight realm. The game is designed for consoles too, even if a console user is eager to use the calculator, it becomes a boring task.

[cosmic summit]

if someone is eager to use it, how could they be bored by it

[latent musk]

Because they will realize they will have to use the controller to do it

[cosmic summit]

the argument against a score preview option is that players would turn it on even if it hurts their experience, but nobody's gonna actively use a calculator if they dont want to

[latent musk]

I agree with that, but the problem here is the game design itself. When is the game starting to add too much?

[cosmic summit]

what do you mean

[latent musk]

We can add a bunch of things that end up somehow lessening the experience to a majority part of the user base but it makes a minority hyped. Then to solve that problem these new things could be turned off by those who don't want it.

Think of FTL and Into The Breach for example, the devs added so much new content that they don't know if it belongs to the core game itself, prompting users if they want to play with the new content... as if it was not good or too different.

[cosmic summit]

huh

i really dont think the option to toggle off advanced edition in FTL and ITB was because the devs were unsure if the new content was good

personally i appreciate it as a form of preservation, like "if you want you can play the game as it was initially"

[latent musk]

It can puzzle new users

Anyway, my point is that if you look at Balatro from a design perspective, it is tightly designed. There are no obscure toggles you can find on the menu settings that affect gameplay or the menu. Where exactly would you put a calculator in Balatro? Hidden inside a menu? An icon near the score screen? On top of the deck? After you come with that decision you have to think if it really needs to be there just because a small minority want it?

[tulip finch]

i agree that it probably wouldnt be best for the game to add this

i think there is a lot of value in the cleanness and ability to just plow through runs to figure the game out as a new player

[cosmic summit]

where are you getting the idea that the majority of players would dislike the calculator

[tulip finch]

even if the calculator is optional, there will likely be a non zero, heck non 100 amount of players that will use it just cause its there in the game when its not necessarily "for them" yet and get their gameplay experience altered in a way i think the base game just handles better

[cosmic summit]

we already have a case study for that in the form of deck peeking

you technically can obsessively look through your deck to determine the odds of drawing certain hands, but no one does

and everybody has deck peeking enabled

[tulip finch]

i think those are different enough to not be an accurate comparison. deck peek doesnt take any input from the player to execute in order to get that info. you just open the menu

[latent musk]

At the end of the day, the dev himself is very much against a calculator.

[tulip finch]

and you still get valueable information through approximation

[latent musk]

This video touches on the subject in more detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk3S3o1qOHo

[cosmic summit]

the fact that a calculator takes more input would make more people ignore it

[tulip finch]

i agree but i think just because something is ignorable or optional doesnt make it a necessarily great inclusion

[cosmic summit]

this is a nothing statement

[tulip finch]

im saying theres opportunity cost in developing anything and this doesnt solve any significant gameplay problems and only poses more by words of the dev himself

[cosmic summit]

i still think it would be a neat inclusion

[latent musk]

Well, I guess at the end of the day we just have different opinions about Balatro

[graceful ginkgo]

i feel like this has the same problems as a score preview, just with an added layer. whether or not the player gets to see the score immediately or they get to calculate it themselves, its still not the intended way to play the game.

[finite idol]

the fundametal difference between the calculator and the preview is that one is passive and the other is active. with the preview, once you turn it on, you are not incentivised to turn it off, so it's always showing and you don't have to do any thinking yourself, ruining the fun. the calculator on the other hand, requires you to know how your build works, what cards trigger in what order, how does that card scale, etc. you need to understand how the mechanics work in order to use it effectively. Obviously the game shouldn't be designed around the use of the calculator, which thunk has outlined on many occasions, but I think it's disingenuous to say that they are the same.

and I say this as someone who doesn't even use a calculator lol