Codex Arcanum - Alchemical Cards and abilities

[half gate]

that's really the best outcome in a game with simple rules that interact in complex ways: when those rules interact in a way that you didn't quite expect, but makes perfect sense in hindsight

[lapis patio]

true

[half gate]

emergent complexity

that's the word i'm thinking of

[lapis patio]

god i wanna play now so i can get a bismuth + glass + death combo

+1 consumable slot my beloved

[half gate]

and when you manage to exploit this emergent interaction, you feel like a genius

e.g. the bismuth/dna example given earlier

[oblique heart]

I've also been asking to change Bottled Buffoon to proc on cards drawn instead of hands used

we have so many card draw options in alc. cards

Complete miss on synergy possibilities

[lapis patio]

fair, the way it is now does have a few synergies but that would for sure give it more synergies

[oblique heart]

without any backfire actually

if you set just the right amount of required cards to be drawn

20-25 or so

[golden sparrow]

24 because there's 24 Alchemical cards 🙂

Just get hyped when 1.2 has a legendary Joker that interacts with consumables, tan seal is introduced and 6 more cards including the fabled Dung.

[half gate]

also, update the pins with 1.1?

[oblique heart]

Packs cost are still not adjusted

I somehow didn't notice that yet again lol

[oblique heart]

Game crushed when I tried to use Uranium on Lucky red seal Jack

[lapis patio]

it'd be funny if it was just cause there aren't 3 valid targets

[golden sparrow]

That is what happened. I just tested it myself

[lapis patio]

lmfao thats so silly

would probably be a lot of work to make it give only the missing upgrades to cards (like giving lucky to the blue seals but not giving the red seal) instead of copying all of it but it may be worth it

not necessary to stop the crash obv

[golden sparrow]

Every time I reload it says I have discovered a new tag. I'm forgetful

[radiant compass]

dementia

[oblique heart]

same thing!

[oblique heart]

Equivalent Exchange (Spectral)
• -1 hand, +1 consumable slot.

I'm back at it again!

needs a little bit of refinement and it'll be ready

[lapis patio]

-1 handsize?

[oblique heart]

That's a Full metal alchemist reference

MC lost a hand and a leg in the process of equivalent exchange

[lapis patio]

yeah i get it but game balance

[oblique heart]

You think handsize is less punishing?

[lapis patio]

yes

[oblique heart]

How do you justify that

[lapis patio]

spectrals give -handsize while hieroglyph gives -hand

voucher > spectral
hand > handsize

[oblique heart]

That's just following the pattern, not actually balancing properly

But I get your point

[lapis patio]

nono i'm saying these show that -hands are only used in circumstances which require a severe downside, meanwhile everything else uses -handsize

for example troubadour is literally 2 handsize for -1 hand and its not very good usually

stuntman is -2 handsize and no one has ever cared

if you want a middle ground between the 2 then making the number for -handsize makes more sense to me

[royal delta]

Yeah, an extra consumable slot is worth very little in the base game IMO. Maybe with Alchemicals it’s worth more, but I’m not convinced

[lapis patio]

technically its voucher level so i can understand if the downside has to be kinda impactful

[royal delta]

I mean, it costs $10 to get a consumable slot

[lapis patio]

yeah

[royal delta]

I don’t think losing a Hand is comparable to the $5 you save when you luck into this after opening a Spectral pack

[lapis patio]

yeah i agree i'm just making the case for -handsize

[royal delta]

And I agree with you

[oblique heart]

In-game look!

(for the spectral card)

[untold depot]

I'm sorry for being late to ask this but, why does oil only cleanses debuffed cards and not prevents hand disabling blinds, such as The Psychic preventing you from scoring a hand with less than 5 cards. I think the current version is too weak AND extremely situational.

[lapis patio]

what if it was just luchador but cool

or luchador for 1 hand

[oblique heart]

The update was pushed just a day before

after some testing, devs would probably get down to balancing things

But I agree, oil is indeed very situational

[oblique heart]

Here's the file
(i fucked up layers)

[golden sparrow]

How many consumable slots does one person really need?

[oblique heart]

4 ideally

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

[vague cradle]

its been updated 👀

[halcyon cobalt]

that seems like the better thing

undebuffs and unflips all cards and jokers until you play your next hand or something

[oblique heart]

Yes! A lot of new stuff been added

I'm currently grinding with Philosophers Deck through all stakes

looking for bugs and balance issues

[oblique heart]

Still waiting for a separate alchemy cards used tab...

[oblique ether]

does getting this mod affect when i get achievements? like if i need to discover all the alchemy content alongside base content or get gold stickers on the alchemy jokers

[lapis patio]

philo deck gaming

[oblique heart]

yeah

[normal willow]

Yes but if you disable mods and you have all the base game stuff completed you'll get the achievement when you start the game. You can then turn the mods back on and you'll be good.

[lapis patio]

my magnet just didn't draw at all...

[proper hatch]

is there something wrong with the atlas in the mod? Only with this mod installed am I having weird scaling issues with it

[lapis patio]

lmao

[proper hatch]

specifically when it comes to jonklers and their size

got 🤓 taking up 3 jonkle slots

[lapis patio]

nerd-xodia

collect my jonklers 🤓

[golden sparrow]

Canadian joker

[carmine pond]

YIPPEE MY PHILOSPHER'S STONE AS SPECTRAL IDEA MADE IT IN!!!

[halcyon cobalt]

pretty sure they were planning that from the start

[carmine pond]

is that a mfing magnet voucher reference??????

[halcyon cobalt]

i don't think so

[carmine pond]

from the early betas and stuff

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah i know what you're referring to

[carmine pond]

ah kk

its just the name and very similar effect so

[halcyon cobalt]

i suppose

[obtuse rune]

this is the funniest bug i have ever seen thank you for making my day

[glacial blaze]

this gives me an idea

[verbal quiver]

joker exodia

[hollow nimbus]

Exoker

[fossil grail]

Wait what is this XD

Oh this is weird

But I think I understand why it’s like that

[lapis patio]

hi feder have you been watching this thread?

[fossil grail]

I have not, I did see that there are a lot of messages, but I had to get read to work (vacation is over ): )

What did I miss?

[lapis patio]

damn, that sucks

[lapis patio]

magnet doesn't work and acid should be buffed

[fossil grail]

Magnet doesn’t work? Are you sure you just didn’t have any cards of the same rank in your deck?

[lapis patio]

also i'd like starting alchs for philo deck to be changed but i think lyman might've already mentioned that to you

[lapis patio]

its not even close to working yeah

[fossil grail]

Odd

[lapis patio]

drew jacks when i selected a king once, didn't draw anything when i selected a 5 once

[fossil grail]

Through all of the testing it worked just fine

[fossil grail]

Huh, I might know the issue

[lapis patio]

what do you think it might be?

[fossil grail]

I’m using the nominal instead of the value

[lapis patio]

interesting

[lapis patio]

also heres really cool art for the mod

a second spectral

[fossil grail]

I will try to do these patches in the evening today

[lapis patio]

thank you feder!!!

does it cause code issues to make acid Properly Destroy cards (like triggering canio and glass joker) and Readd them to the deck (like for hologram)?

[fossil grail]

I specifically wanted to not make them “be destroyed” as to not make it too powerful with glass joker and such, but it can work

[lapis patio]

its kinda hard to understand the point of it without the synergies tho

[fossil grail]

True

[lapis patio]

i, lord of the deep and podder were also thinking it could use a small reward for each card destroyed too but the synergies are most important imo because they're more important to the fun value for me

fun > balance

[fossil grail]

100% agree

I’ll see what I can do this evening

[fervent shuttle]

Why was this scraped, this looks cool!

[keen cairn]

maybe bettma or someone else could readd it in one of their mods

[fervent shuttle]

It there information on all the scraped content?

[golden sparrow]

There isn't much beside six vouchers and a few deck backs I think. Some effects have changed from the demo to full release (ie: gold seals giving money instead of rebounding back to your hand)

[glacial blaze]

you also used to be able to choose in which order you play the 3 blinds, and joker slots used to be shared with consumable slots
there were also a ton of blind and tarot effects that changed drastically throughout development

[fervent shuttle]

Joker and consumable slots being shared as a deck effect sounds really fun

[oblique heart]

In short:
Magnet is broken
Uranium is broken as well
Packs cost is still not adjusted
Alchemy Tag keeps popping up in the collection tab as Newly discovered
I also made an art for a new Spectral card, check it out
Oh, and here's a suggestion for Acid buff:

Acid
Select a card and destroy all copies of it in your deck, gain +$2 for each. Return destroyed cards at the end of the round.
@fossil grail

[oblique heart]

packs

[oblique heart]

uranium

[oblique heart]

alchemy tag

[oblique heart]

new Spectral card! (art)

[oblique heart]

Stats tab needed

[golden sparrow]

1. Mutated Joker needs to be updated via using an Alchemical card to give the correct number of chips
2. Terra doesn't generate a win if you lower the score to one you've already met
3. Magnet is not working as intended (see here)
4. Chain Re-action says it's Blueprint compatible but is not
5. Jumbo and Mega packs cost 4
6. Uranium crashes the game if there are no cards in your hand available without enhancements, editions and/or seals
7. Tag memory issues upon reloading. I imagine it's from the api but I know nothing

Then lastly there's the interaction with Acid working with 'destroy' and 'add to deck' triggers. I believe it synergizing with a select handful of Jokers (Canio, Glass Joker and Hologram) would be a type of reward from run planning/building that would provide some positive player feedback while not being game breaking.

I also have gone through and revised some of the Alchemical card's tooltips and colored keywords to match with cards in the base game.

[oblique heart]

yeah, you've put together all of it much better, thanks

[oblique heart]

@Gappie absolutely knocked it of the park by enhancing my sketchy doodles with Spectral Magic!
Meet Caput Mortuum:

@fossil grail

[fossil grail]

I’ll tell you what, I am not sure if we would want to add more spectrals, but I love the sprites. We’ll see if we add them

Also nice undertale reference

[oblique heart]

hehe, thanks

[oblique heart]

well, if you gonna add a new seal, you'll definitely need to a new spectral for it

that's for sure I think

Btw, if you are not going to add new tarots or spectrals, could you at least make it so that they won't take a whole page just for 1-2 cards?

idk if that's possible

Philosopher's Stone - secret spectral card for a new type of consumables.

Synthesize - a spectral card that applies a Tan Seal similar to Deja Vu, Trance etc.

Equivalent Exchange - a new way to get extra consumable slots but for a price just like most spectral cards do (more slots = more flexibility, combos, interactions).

Caput Mortuum - ngl this card might be completely unnecessary but I thought that it could have some cool effect involving Perishable mechanic (which fits the name and theme super well).

Me too don't want CA to lean in non-Alchemical consumables but I think these ones worth considering.

[tiny marten]

Synthesis for the Tan Seal?

[oblique heart]

oh, nice one

like you synthesize a new element

that's perfect

:D

[fossil grail]

A lot of bug fixing for today

This is gonna be fun

[teal loom]

Error occurs when I want to use oil to temperory cleanse the debuffed Spades.

[fossil grail]

Can you explain the issue with the uranium?>

[oblique heart]

Seems like I had not enough valid targets for it / it tried to apply seal and enhancement to cards in my hand that already had seal or enhancement

[oblique heart]

this picture is taken right before crashing

I used Uranium on this jack and game crashed

[fossil grail]

huh

i think i know why

[stray fossil]

Will be re-added with archived for sure

[fossil grail]

Okay magnet is fixed

[oblique heart]

thanks!

[fossil grail]

Fixed Uranium

[oblique heart]

hope you didnt grew an extra limb in the process

[tiny marten]

Chernobyl Nuclear Reactor operator ca 1986:

[fossil grail]

too late

[lapis patio]

extra arm = faster coding
just gotta hope it wasn't a leg.....

[fossil grail]

Stone fixed

[fossil grail]

About 1: https://gyazo.com/973f3ad8232b1417ae1f8320ad735537.mp4

[fossil grail]

with mod is that?

[viral herald]

thats vanilla

silly goobert…

in stats

[fossil grail]

?

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

i thought you talked about the gif XD

[viral herald]

nope

its awesome that the stats tab work with modded items but mine are absolutely cooked from how much mod testing i do

[oblique heart]

it's in game tab yeah

[oblique heart]

Itay, can you explain how mutated joker works?

Cuz it's says «this run» but it only start counting after you get it

is it a bug or a wording issue?

[spiral tendon]

I thought it worked retroactively

[oblique heart]

Me too

[fossil grail]

wording issue

[fossil grail]

oh, odd, will fix that

Okay fixed the mutated joker issue

[oblique heart]

thanks

[fossil grail]

okay, let' see, what other issues do we have?

[obtuse rune]

my back's still sore

[fossil grail]

oh ):

[obtuse rune]

we're not rich

[fossil grail]

hope you get well soon

[obtuse rune]

oh you mean for the mods

[fossil grail]

yet

[fossil grail]

XD

[obtuse rune]

oh itay

alchemical deck

should start with random cards

[fossil grail]

yes yes

i have no idea how i will do that XD

[obtuse rune]

ok just thought i'd relay that

[fossil grail]

might just give the player an alchemy tag at the start

[obtuse rune]

that works

[oblique heart]

issue

They probably should be certain cards

[obtuse rune]

wait

[oblique heart]

to avoid restarting

[obtuse rune]

just give them seeker card

[fossil grail]

oh makes sense

[oblique heart]

Mb after defeating boss blind?

[obtuse rune]

while i get the restart issue i think its not too different to having a proper starting tag

since at most the most run changing thing you could probably get right away is salt

that being said a random alchemical card after every boss blind sort of like anaglyph might be neat

[lapis patio]

i don't think that matters ngl

[oblique heart]

I just feel like Philosopher deck doesn't feel like it alchemy cards focused

its voucher doesn't do anything with that most of the time

[lapis patio]

they should be balanced well anyway and erratic will always be worse for restarts

[oblique heart]

unless you get lucky cauldron

[tiny marten]

Fun but not very serious suggestion: alchemical cards can randomly appear in any booster pack

[obtuse rune]

i mean

observatory deck is the same thing then no?

in regards to "lucky cauldron"

[obtuse rune]

i think for most people that would feel like it just dilutes pools

[lapis patio]

i like the starting voucher personally but i wouldn't be opposed to making it start with both cauldron and alch merchant cause that sounds fun

[obtuse rune]

if it was something like spectrals i could see some silly deck like that but for alchemicals i feel like its not on the same power axis

[oblique heart]

Observatory deck existence doesn't justify phili deck not being alchemy cards ficused, no?

[fossil grail]

I have no idea how i did it this easily

[lapis patio]

sick

[obtuse rune]

insane

[oblique heart]

FINALLY

holy

[obtuse rune]

feder what do you think about changing philo deck to instead get a random alchemical after each boss blind

[tiny marten]

Achievement Unlocked: Grounded

[obtuse rune]

"finally" this mf just learned about this tab today

[fossil grail]

Achievement unlocked: I hate win checks

Perfect

[oblique heart]

Also, starting with Terra and Ingis kinda fucks up my card stats ngl

[obtuse rune]

i mean

fool moment

[lapis patio]

i don't like this as much but having multiple decks would be very cool

[oblique heart]

true

[obtuse rune]

hmmm

[lapis patio]

big fan of modded decks

[fossil grail]

BTW lyman what do you think about the other spectrals?

[obtuse rune]

i saw the skull today

[oblique heart]

more alchemy cards is not fun? D:

[obtuse rune]

its pretty epic, i might just add a teeny bit of a tweak to the eye is all

[lapis patio]

seems clunky to me. kinda gives you them when you need them least, maybe when boss blind is selected instead?

[obtuse rune]

alright what about this
philo deck -> starts with mortal & pestle + alchemical merchant (doesn't have starting alchemical cards anymore)
NEW: herbalist's deck -> get a random alchemical card when you select each boss blind

[fossil grail]

I can only give 1 voucher in this system

[lapis patio]

interesting

[fossil grail]

oh wait no

[lapis patio]

i'd be fine with this yeah, i like the starting alchs personally so i'd like to keep them while adding the second voucher but that philo deck does sound like better designed and balanced

[obtuse rune]

if you cant do 2 vouchers im okay with just keeping it to be like, a seeker card or smth

[lapis patio]

^

[obtuse rune]

noice!

you up for the herbalist idea?

[lapis patio]

gamer

[obtuse rune]

i could get to doodling a card back for it

[fossil grail]

we can do that

[obtuse rune]

bet

[lapis patio]

i need to find a way to get lyman to draw more card backs...

[fossil grail]

Now I need to think about how we would implement that

[obtuse rune]

how does anaglyph do it?

(i know thats post boss fight)

[lapis patio]

how does old man jonkler do it

[fossil grail]

I know how we will do that XD

figured something out

[oblique heart]

Tbh mortar and pestel should be given to Herbalist

it's a low hanging fruit

[oblique heart]

What do you think about Equivalent Exchange?

Is it up to the quality?

Also Phili deck can start with Cauldron only

Since having Negative alchemy cards renders mortar and pestle quite useless

[tiny marten]

With the T2 but not the T1 what

[oblique heart]

give me a minute

I need to sort out my thoughts

[halcyon cobalt]

i wonder if you can do that

[oblique heart]

So, thematically Herbalist deck should start with Mortar but Phili deck already uses it

and idk how to move around these vouchers

[halcyon cobalt]

is that a voucher that lets alchemy cards appear in the shop

[fossil grail]

Yes

[halcyon cobalt]

cool

does it make them appear at the base rate that tarots and planets do in the shop

[oblique heart]

Zodiac deck starts with 3 vouchers

just realized that

[fossil grail]

Yes

[lapis patio]

philo = alch merchant + seeker tarot
herb = mortar and pestle + 1 alch on boss blind select

[lapis patio]

surprisingly it needs it

[halcyon cobalt]

i like this

[oblique heart]

seeker looks like someone who collects herbs

[lapis patio]

without overstock it'd be 90% downside

[oblique heart]

card I mean

[lapis patio]

i mean could always move philo deck effects to herb deck and make philo deck the one with new effects, up to feder and lyman

[oblique heart]

philo = alch merchant + alch tycoon
herb = mortar and pestle + 1 seeker card on boss blind select

[lapis patio]

hmm, i don't like that as much

[oblique heart]

philo is weaker that way

ik

[lapis patio]

i like starting with alchs as a deck effect and i don't like how powerful herb would be

[oblique heart]

herb won't be powerful but if we compare it to philo deck, then yes

[lapis patio]

2 alchs each ante feels like a lot to me

[oblique heart]

What if it would give you Seeker only once?

When you select your first boss blind, create a Seeker card.

to prevent rerolls

[lapis patio]

thats pretty much the same as starting with it imo

[oblique heart]

^^^

[lapis patio]

rerolls aren't that big of a concern for me

[oblique heart]

it is

we have Salt in the pool

just saying

and Cobalt

And Gold

[halcyon cobalt]

i think this is the best

[lapis patio]

every deck could be rerolled for small blind arcana tag soul perkeo wheel of fortune polychrome, into polychrome tag for free blueprint

you could always reroll erratic till you get a 10 of spades run

[oblique heart]

yes, but now you reroll for a tag AND seeker highroll

[oblique heart]

Ok, what are the arguments against my proposition of making it like this (except making this deck a bit weaker)?

[lapis patio]

you always have the choice to bash your head against the wall of rng so adding 1 more piece of rng means nothing to me

[dim mist]

what deck did you gold stake now

[lapis patio]

you can always run magic deck and look for an endless emperor + fool + hermit combo to get infinite money

[oblique heart]

I just think that giving a player a bit more time to dip their toes into the run before getting seeker would be is not a bad thing

[lapis patio]

sdm_0's deck

[oblique heart]

I understand that such stuff already exist

I just personally don't like player to be engaged with restarting

@fossil grail So, what's better in your opinion: giving player Seeker card from the get go or give them a little bit more time, so the Seeker card would be given only when selecting the first boss blind?

That's such a niche thing so I just want to get over with it

@lapis patio what about phili deck version I suggested?

It's a bit on a weaker side

[halcyon cobalt]

these seem like the best versions of the decks imo

[lapis patio]

pretty much i just want 4 things for the decks and they can be mix matched in any combination

1. start with seeker
2. start with mortar and pestle
3. start with alch merchant
4. gain an alch when boss blind is selected

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

[oblique heart]

just wierd that phili deck starts with seeker

[halcyon cobalt]

that seems like something we can agree on

the 4 things

[oblique heart]

seeker portrays a gatherer

[lapis patio]

^

[oblique heart]

which fits herbalist

[oblique heart]

sure

[lapis patio]

can make herb deck effect 1 & 2 and philo effect 3 & 4

[halcyon cobalt]

philo deck: seeker and alch merchant
herb deck: mortar & pestle and alch on boss blind

hmm

[oblique heart]

seeker and mortar fits herbalist
I'll die on this hill

[lapis patio]

yeah fair

anyways the new alchemical stats page looks cool and i hope its easy to expand upon, it'd be nice to get one for other consumable types too

stats page api

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

with oddities and cines and that kinda thing

[oblique heart]

stat tracking is really helpful

[halcyon cobalt]

honestly i really like the idea of a deck with alch merchant and cauldron

[lapis patio]

i want to track my 1 jollar usage before they reach into the hundreds (where my other consumables are)

[lapis patio]

fuck it we ball, 1 bloated deck with all 4 effects

[oblique heart]

[halcyon cobalt]

lmao

also

we could just use the deck creator to make decks that have those effects in a certain way

[oblique heart]

mod?

[lapis patio]

thats a thing on deck creator's side of things, idk if they're working on any modded compatibility yet

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

the dev of it did say they're working on compatibility with this and some other mods

[lapis patio]

oh they did? nice

[halcyon cobalt]

so you can start with these or ban these from the run

or that kinda thing

[lapis patio]

deck creator is so insane, just casually doing everything with minimal issues

[halcyon cobalt]

#1211808102999924746 message

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

[golden sparrow]

This is what I did. Giving a player a tag left me clueless.

[oblique heart]

Itay, could you use Yorick's code for a Bottled Buffoon change I suggested a while ago?

as a shortcut

[cyan magnet]

holy shit its sans undertale

[lapis patio]

btw i do think the full name would fit if you used tiny letters like wheel of fortune or philosopher's stone

[oblique heart]

It just doesnt

you can try yourself

if you somehow manage to do that, I'd be only happy

[lapis patio]

i'll try soon sure, i just know its less characters than those 2 consumables

cobalt shows hand selected even with face down cards, i think its cool but idk if its intentional

[lapis patio]

ugly example, i think it can be better for sure

[radiant compass]

mortuom

[lapis patio]

also slightly older example i'm more leaning towards at least as far as caput being centered over mortuum goes

the "U"s are wrong tho

tempted to try and do something very dumb for this

[halcyon cobalt]

interesting

[lapis patio]

this is good i think. opinions?

1x so i can go do other stuff while i wait for opinions

[amber island]

that looks nice

i dont really have any criticisms about this, it just feels right

[lapis patio]

cool

[golden sparrow]

What I meant when I tested it, was if you used any amount of Alchemical cards and then bought Mutated Joker, it'll only say +10 chips until you use an Alchemical card to update the text.

I had one Mutated Joker give me +60 chips but when I spawned in a second copy the second one only giving me +10 chips. It was like that until I used another card and then they both gave me +70 chips. This is in contrast to Fortune Teller which auto updates it's mult value.

[oblique heart]

looks good

[obtuse rune]

the one above this is how i would do it but since you pulled this off im down for it

[lapis patio]

ya at first i was making it mostly based off philo stone then noticed i had way too much space

[obtuse rune]

im gonna try working on indexing the sprite's colors a bit

this is gorgeous but seeing this activates my almonds

[golden sparrow]

Same.

[obtuse rune]

alright so i've compressed it down to the (more or less) normal color palette for spectrals (and i did a little tweaks here and there, its more or less the same though)

[blazing shadow]

I got a crash pointing at this mod
happened at the end of "the monster" boss blind which sets consumable slots to 0

[strange tangle]

i appear

[obtuse rune]

https://tenor.com/view/reverse-fade-hello-peace-meme-gif-17200828

[strange tangle]

Catalyst Joker's return should have a check to only return if XMult is above 1

[last snow]

Who here made the Equivalent Exchange Spectral idea?

[lapis patio]

lord of the deep dawn

[fossil grail]

Remade the decks!

[golden sparrow]

[fossil grail]

Patch 1.1.3 is out!
https://github.com/itayfeder/Codex-Arcanum/releases/tag/Release_1.1.3

It has a lot of the requested patches, plus the new deck!
https://itayfeder.github.io/Codex-Arcanum/

[lapis patio]

fast release, good job!

[golden sparrow]

Feder knows his way around his code

[glacial blaze]

🎉

[strange tangle]

smh

[lapis patio]

having a deck after those 2 is soooooooo suspicious

(i'm assuming you don't run many mods when testing your stuff which would mean you have another deck on the way for some mod)

doing detective work on a balatro mod screenshot

[fossil grail]

Oh I have so many mods loaded while I mod myself XD

I have:

Codex arcanum
Fusion jokers (my other big mod)
Composite Hands (WIP)
The secret project (soon)
Ore of a Kind & Half of a Rank (joke mods)

And for mods that are not mine I have:
Jank Jonklers
The Autumn Circus
(Sometimes) Six Suits
Absolute deck

[lapis patio]

ah so its absolute deck and not secret project

[solar saddle]

that's way less then I have loaded while modding.

[golden sparrow]

Where new deck?

The assets for the back aren't in the folder it seems

[glossy perch]

Has it been fixed? Using glass first and then oil will crash

[fossil grail]

I recall i did

[fossil grail]

Download the patch from the releases

[golden sparrow]

ope nvm I downloaded an older version

[glossy perch]

OK, I will try the new version

[glossy perch]

still crash in 1.1.3

[oblique heart]

the darker blue line that comes out of the eye looks a bit blocky

other than that it looks pretty much the same

[oblique heart]

Seeker card wasn't given to Herbalist

flavor lost

[cyan magnet]

could we change mortar and pestle

[oblique heart]

[cyan magnet]

thank god

i love crashes

[oblique heart]

same

Uranium works as intended

[oblique heart]

wdym?

[golden sparrow]

why.

[cyan magnet]

because its the exact same as crystal ball

[golden sparrow]

... damn you're right

[oblique heart]

I see your point but it's kinda of ok as is atm

But I wouldn't mind a change for it

[golden sparrow]

That's one thing I'm completely fine with overlap. Honestly wouldn't mind a third voucher that does the same thing only if it leads into a different upgrade than Omen Globe or Cauldron.

...maybe a planet var

[oblique heart]

holy Trinity

[cyan magnet]

telescope???

[golden sparrow]

I meant a +1 consume slot voucher that then has it's second voucher care about planet cards somehow.. but then I guess Observatory and Telescope fills that design space heavily already.

[keen cairn]

Random planet cards in my arcana packs is not a vibe

Unless I'm playing Constellation I guess

[golden sparrow]

A voucher that's a built in blue seal would be choice. I don't like diluting packs/pools.

[keen cairn]

Like "gives a planet card for the last used hand of ever ante" as a voucher?

Wouldn't mind that, but kinda seems more fit for a general vocuher pack like Betmma's than here

Or Crimson's tier 3s tbh

Doesn't look like he has a tier 3 to Telescope/Observatory yet

And it'd fit pretty nicely tbh

Also relatedly. Bettma's voucher pack + Crimson's tier 3s makes for a really nice voucher experience

[glacial blaze]

spectral cards anything can be found in standard packs -> +1 consumable slot

[oblique heart]

Post-patch Alchemy cards tier list

Couple notes: cards are aligned by power in their respective tiers. Aqua, Ignis, Terra are considered weak while other 3 elements are situational

and yeah situational =/= weak

[amber island]

mmmmm that looks so much better

the eye-aura effect didnt look quite right, flow was a bit off
i tweaked it a lil

ik its not really supposed to have cross hatching but it was kinda the only way to get a smooth transition between the colours

its not technically crosshatching though but certainly does the same thing

[keen cairn]

dithering

[glossy perch]

Did anyone try the Plasma Deck? Is it invalid in the new version?

@fossil grail I compared it with the old version and it is still normal in 1.1.2

[fossil grail]

Wdym?

It doesn’t work?

[glossy perch]

Yes,It doesn’t work...there was no such issue at version 1.1.2...

[fossil grail]

Will fix

I 100% know why

[royal delta]

I don’t have the newest version but the extra hand size Alchemical’s draw isn’t retriggered even though the hand size is increased

[tepid tinsel]

@fossil grail hi

can't do things on Balatrostuck because CA keeps messing with overrides

[fossil grail]

Odd, let me check that line in a sec

[tepid tinsel]

full traceback

(it works fine without CA)

happens when i hover over a joker that uses generate ui in locdef

[royal delta]

Also, can Salt not create Orbital Tags for balance reasons or bug reasons? I looked into the code because I wanted a Joker that creates generic tags.

The error message I get when I enable Orbital Tag to show up is that the set_ability method is trying to index a nil value. I could take a look into it some other time.

In any case, I think the inexistent value it’s trying to access is created when create_UIBox_blind_choice is run. For my use case, I think generating a hand type choice independent of everything else is fine, but since the Orbital Tag automatically tries to set its ability when it’s created, I’d need to override that method, or create the object it tries to access myself.

[fossil grail]

bug reasons

[woven frigate]

You probably would have to change the orbital RNG algorithm

[fossil grail]

redundant override, removed

[fossil grail]

plasma deck seems to work for me

[royal delta]

I think changing set_ability is enough, or executing the process that create_UIBox_blind_choice does before creating the tag

[fossil grail]

oh wait it doesnt

what

why

that's weird

i actually have no idea why plasma deck doesn't work

it does work

what

there is no bug

it does work

[fossil grail]

fixed it

Released a patch for these bugs

https://github.com/itayfeder/Codex-Arcanum/releases/tag/Release_1.1.4

[lapis patio]

i'd put magnet, brimstone, antimony and uranium higher but other than that agreed. arsenic could maybe be moved to bottom of situational since it does allow you an extra discard at the least (if you have 1 hand and 0 discards using arsenic won't make you lose)

[last snow]

@oblique heart While I do like the reference, and think its a neato idea, -1 hands per round is ABSOLUTELY not an equivalent exchange for that, considering the only thing that does that (other than certain Jokers) is the Hieroglyph voucher, and that effects the current ANTE. It'd probably be much better for it to give you -1 hand size instead, to keep it in line with other Spectral cards.

[last snow]

...and I just installed it before this. :|
Regardless though, looks cool.

[lapis patio]

we've talked about this yeah

[oblique heart]

Magnet and Brim I can agree on but Antimony is very random while Uranium requires quite a lot to start being useful

[lapis patio]

fair

[oblique heart]

tho they both can be very powerful if you hit it big

[lapis patio]

antimony just has a ton of crazy combos to the point i value it pretty highly even in low antes cause it can double my +mult

[oblique heart]

Sure sure, I agree

+more consisntent with other Spectrals

[oblique heart]

the random nature of it makes it super unreliable

however, I once managed to start with early Burnt Joker + Ankh

and guess what, Antimony gave me +1 free lvl

that was quite useful

Almost as good as cobalt

[lapis patio]

how i see it is early game antimony is consistent cause you don't have many jokers and they almost always wanna be duped for small payoff, and late game antimony is unreliable but the payoff is run winning if it hits

[oblique heart]

in late game it's consistently average due to player having a complete build (tho depends still)

in the mid game it's the most polarizing (for me at least)

Uranium 100% deserved it's tier since it literally does nothing until you get at least 1 enhancement

and at this point its only becomes on par with other alcemicals

[lapis patio]

imo enhancements aren't rare at all including combos with other alchemicals including bismuth

[oblique heart]

still:
other alchemicals > instant raw effect
uranium > depends on X

which makes the choice obvious for me

but again, as soon as you get something to combo uran. with, it becomes on par with others if not better

cuz it also copies seals + editions

it's just hard to utilize early game

[lapis patio]

and thoughts on the arsenic tech?

that + being on demand knock-off burglar makes it not too bad imo

and it combos with sulfur

and counters the needle and potentially the water if you really need the discards

i keep getting it from bottled buffoon so i've been forced to adapt and cope 😔

[oblique heart]

herbalist deck experience...

[lapis patio]

its weird cause its literally never my choice but i do think its better than a good few alchemicals

[oblique heart]

I was probably too harsh with arsenic
it definitely deserves top of the F tier

better than soap for sure

[lapis patio]

"arsenic or ignis? ignis" meanwhile arsenic is pretty much convoluted ignis

[oblique heart]

Ignis and Aqua > arsenic

most of the time**

[lapis patio]

it depends a lot yeah, i just like doing the 0 hands tech often so i do like it more than ignis

[oblique heart]

me with 2 discards on purple+ stake...

[lapis patio]

yeah thats when you 0 hand tech for 1 extra

weird fake ignis that makes you feel smart for using it

[oblique heart]

I also mentioned before that Ignis and Aqua should be +3 and +2 at base

first of all hands and discards are not equal

99% of the time

[lapis patio]

i could see +2 and +2 but 3 feels like a bit much imo

[oblique heart]

and +1 of either is super nothing burger

[oblique heart]

^^

[lapis patio]

true but they aren't soooooo far from equal that 3 is needed

[oblique heart]

sure but +2 at base each is 100% the right call

[lapis patio]

like burglar > merry andy for sure but imo it doesn't mean andy should give +4

[lapis patio]

true

[oblique heart]

Antimony also needs to be targetable

it's randomness involves rng and I hate it

it's either useless dogwater or the biggest highroll you've ever seen

and everything in between as well lol

[oblique heart]

In short: everything in the F tier (except Arsenic) needs either a buff or rework + Cobalt and Salt should not give direct value

I have no idea why Cobalt got buffed lmao

[lapis patio]

btw oil should remove debuffs from jokers if it doesn't already (i assume not from the description)

it'd be funny, combo with brimstone and anti crimson heart

just a tiny change

[oblique heart]

My brother in christ, just make it disable boss abilty for the next X number of hands played this round

[lapis patio]

real but if it keeps the same strange sort of ability it has now i'd at least want it to have a funny combo

[oblique heart]

🔥

Perfection cannot be spoiled

[spice yacht]

This is incredibly badass

[royal delta]

Playing in an old version still and I get the feeling Phosphorus puts 4 cards from the discard pile on the bottom of the deck

This isn't a joke. I'm testing something so I used Phosphorus to add cards back and I literally had to draw my whole deck to find them.

[golden sparrow]

Interesting. I would have thought they added them to either the top or bottom.

I don't think the game reshuffles the deck or even has a feature for such.

I had tested it in the past when I changed the effect to add discarded cards back to hand to check which cards are selected and in which order they are restored.

Whenever playing a hand or discarding, the cards get sent to the discard pile left to right. So the rightmost card would be the top most card and therefore the first card to be affected by Phosphorus.

I would have assumed it would have added that card to the top of the deck and worked its way down the discard pile, thus making the very first played or discarded card the very top of the deck.

But hey I guess how the game decides to place what where first is different than the hand/discard pile to the deck

Lmao what a rollercoaster 😂

Seeing discussion of usefulness and y'all never used Sulfur then Arsenic and it shows.

[lapis patio]

i diddddddddd

[lapis patio]

.

[lapis patio]

btw i consider this a crystal ball issue and thats not something codex needs to fix

crystal ball always feels pretty terrible without codex and doesn't feel like its very tarot themed at all

meanwhile mortar and pestle feels great and goes really well with alchemicals since it allows you to do insane combos like bismuth + manganese + death to easily make a perfect king minus the red seal

and the upgrade actually makes sense as an even better version of +1 consumable slot instead of being entirely unrelated and even sort of anti-synergistic (less chance for fool, emperor and high priestess in arcana packs when you have omen globe)

[golden sparrow]

I think we should have 1-2 more cards that reduce your hands or discards down to 1 for some benefit.

We have art for four Alchemical cards. And I think Feder may want four more to round out another final page. If ya'll can think of any effects that would synergize with pre-existing cards that may lead to improve player experience.

We have Lithium, Honey, Chlorine and Stone btw

[lapis patio]

yummy honey

yummy stone

[golden sparrow]

I just thought of an idea for some STICKY honey. I got the idea from the voucher mod.. hmmm

[lapis patio]

honey effect could work a bit more like food jokers than most other alchs for theming

[lapis patio]

returns to hand after played?

for the food theming it'd just be like "next 3 scored cards" or "next 2 hands" for example of what i mean

[golden sparrow]

Sorta. Are you familiar with the one voucher that lets you flip cards but when you play them they are considered as both played and in hand?

[lapis patio]

not very

sounds pretty situational for an alchemical

[golden sparrow]

True, as is a few others.

[oblique heart]

I'm fighting for my life on high stakes man, there's no way I'm burning all of my hands but one for money

But yeah if you one shotting blinds you can go for sulfur for sure

Biggest w would be using sulfur with Burglar

And arsenic is kinda nothing burger most of the time when you play with 3 discards

ok, it can give you +2 hands best case scenario

[golden sparrow]

What about Merry Andy!!

/s

[lapis patio]

what about yorick and castle!!!!!!!!!! /j

[oblique heart]

Honestly, I undervalued arsenic

it's on par with Ignis and Aqua

[golden sparrow]

Because you Cobalt and Salt pilled!!!

[lapis patio]

yeah i don't blame you it has bad vibes, evil energy

[oblique heart]

but they are all still C* tier at best

mistypo

[oblique heart]

Honey
• If you score at least 80% of the required score this round, prevent death (consecutive uses decrease the requirement by 20%).

[cosmic vessel]

First crash! 🥳

here's the modlist

it crashed when Popcorn expired (while using the "Jokers for hire" deck from Mika's Mod Collection if that might be relevant)

[golden sparrow]

I think there was something about Mika's mod conflicting with Jokers

[cosmic vessel]

I don't think I had any jokers from this mod in my roster at the moment though

else I'm not sure why this mod in particular would throw an error

[forest quest]

I've seen an error from this mid in that exact position

[golden sparrow]

There's been a few errors involving the Overrides.lua with other mods

[cosmic vessel]

Ahh

[forest quest]

Specifically having trouble with this

ohhhh

ah

Lemme see

Unfortunately I'm not familiar with playing card stuff enough but there might be something that makes extra an number, which causes this error as it's making the assumption that card.ability.extra is a table without checking if that's actually the case

[cosmic vessel]

okay it's not just popcorn expiring

[glossy perch]

I think BOSS tag should also be disabled. There will be a bug when you re-enter the run with this non triggered tag in a pack

[forest quest]

What does your deck look like when this error happens

[cosmic vessel]

Crashes when I beat the boss blind while doing nothing different than previous hands

[forest quest]

GOLD CARD

[cosmic vessel]

Is there a place where I can get a full error message? It gets cut off on my screen

[forest quest]

You can download DebugPlus, iirc you can scroll down the error message

[cosmic vessel]

ah

[forest quest]

Gold Card sets self.ability.extra to an integer

[cosmic vessel]

There's no gold card in my hand though

maybe it's the steel?

Nope, crashes even if I get rid of it

[lapis patio]

if you use lovely to install steamodded it comes with a console window that has the full message

[cosmic vessel]

I found that yeah

is there any way to disable it though lol

[forest quest]

Not the hand, the deck

[cosmic vessel]

I think I had it before that point though

[forest quest]

Might be some other card effect that also sets it’s extra value to a number

But either way

Gold Card definitely will trigger this error

[cosmic vessel]

I started a run with some gold cards and that doesn't seem to be triggering the crash

[forest quest]

Can you use Oil?

[cosmic vessel]

we'll find out!

eventually!

[forest quest]

wait

I think this but was already fixed

lmao

ok yeah it was

[cosmic vessel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/918651238323724330/1082007633067773982/murder.gif

[lapis patio]

when brick throwing alchemical

[cosmic vessel]

so true

[forest quest]

At least I figured out that you should make sure that card.ability.extra is a table when iterating through the entire deck to make sure Glass Card doesn't crash the game.

[lapis patio]

i am looking forward to stone when/if its added cause stone cards are pretty much bricks when you (don't) think about it

[keen cairn]

Actually looking at their web page, their plan is indeed very similar to that

Sorry for the necropost. Just thought it was worth mentioning

[last snow]

Ngl...I'm probably not picking up Sulfur again after my first game. I spent 10 minutes using a Balatro calculuator to make sure I had the correct score needed...
for 8$.

[obtuse rune]

$8 jollars

[lapis patio]

thats nearly 1 minute per jollar, definitely worth it

i've so far just used sulfur early when i was one shotting by like triple score requirement

[last snow]

NGL, even if it was basic, I think I would've preferred old Surfur due to its simplicity and usefulness.

[lapis patio]

i like new sulfur

[cyan magnet]

old sulfur doesnt fit with the theme

in what situation would $10 in the middle of the blind be different to $10 in shop

[glacial blaze]

$10 is only accessible next shop

[golden sparrow]

Forcing you to have a card in your consumable slot before going into a blind lmao

[cyan magnet]

exactly

woops sorry for ping

just noticed

[glacial blaze]

its fine

i like being pinged it helps me read stuff

[golden sparrow]

I need the money during the blind and not the shop because of two reasons. I have the Bull, and I also have a spending problem.

[lapis patio]

zainotv....

[golden sparrow]

[glacial blaze]

new sulfur is better game design because its more money early and it discourages using it later in most situations, as well as blind only effect
there are still alchemicals with effects that could still apply to other situations, though, but i understand why they dont

[golden sparrow]

If it's not your tempo, you're not a gambler or a pog champ or whatever that's fine. Pass it up.
When's the last time you used a Tower?

I think Sulfur is one of the further one's from being niche/useless

[glacial blaze]

some of the other alchemicals people consider "very bad" are really good, its just that the mod hasnt been out very long

[lapis patio]

which ones

[golden sparrow]

People aren't creative in their application of the Alchemical cards. Maybe that's a good thing because it shows that this mod does in fact bring a new dynamic to the game and not just a gimmick.

[lapis patio]

i'm excluding myself from that

i am creative with the application frfr

[glacial blaze]

antimony, uranium, oil, borax, silver, etc

[glacial blaze]

yeah theres a ton of nuance with them just like basegame stuff

[lapis patio]

all of those but oil i could see yeah

oil is like luchador if it was even worse

[glacial blaze]

i think luchador is fine, its (nearly) strictly worse than chicot though

[lapis patio]

both suck really bad

[glacial blaze]

i dont entirely agree with that

[lapis patio]

luchador has to be found before a boss that you need to disable or its pretty much a dead slot, and chicot is practically the same but it stops you from seeing perkeo triboulet and yorick more often

they're both worse than the reroll boss vouchers

and in most cases all 3 are worse than playing around the potential boss blinds to the best of your ability

[oblique heart]

Sulfur is the definition of situational but when you get that 12$... feels great

[golden sparrow]

Plus the interest!

Aqua into Sulfur big brain.

[oblique heart]

old sulfur was dumb just like current cobalt and salt

[lapis patio]

i prefer the other way around for safety

sulfur then aqua

[glacial blaze]

i can understand why having (effectively) 4 joker slots would be painful, but usually theres at least one open consumable slot, so you could just hold it there until either you get a boss blind which debuffs the majority of your deck or you get verdant leaf

[glacial blaze]

i once got brimstone sulfur

[lapis patio]

what if my run doesn't actually care about cards being debuffed

[glacial blaze]

then just dont get oil

[lapis patio]

so i have to care about debuffed cards, then find oil, then run into a boss that debuffs all the cards i want to use, and i can only cleanse the debuff from 1 hand?

also gotta be woefully unprepared in every other way

[glacial blaze]

yes that seems reasonable

[oblique heart]

as long as it is «lose X, gain X» or «gain X, if you do X» it's considered situational

it's not a raw value

[lapis patio]

seems unreasonable to me but sure if thats what you consider good

[oblique heart]

and sulfur is not useless

[oblique heart]

^

[glacial blaze]

ok

[oblique heart]

due to its simplicity of use it definitely stays above other situational cards

[oblique heart]

example?

who is the secret goat

[glacial blaze]

antimony, uranium, oil, borax, silver, etc

borax is free flush, silver always procs, antimony is free joker, uranium is very good if you have a card with multiple improvements, theyre just good

[oblique heart]

Antimony is unreliable rng fest
No one says Uranium is bad, it's situational
Oil is the definition of dogwater, an effect that is useful only against 6 bosses in the game, WTF??
Borax is solid for flush builds (which are very common)
Silver is a nothing burger literally, ofc unless you miraculously highroll or have opss all 6s (but the chances are low either way)

[glacial blaze]

*7

[oblique heart]

sure, doesn't change my point

[lapis patio]

silver is fine imo its just like wheel of fortune, if you're lucky its crazy and if you're not its not

[oblique heart]

i agree

I'll take it over anything that is in F tier any day

I'd better gamba

[lapis patio]

based gamba enjoyer

[oblique heart]

The only thing I misjudged is Arsenic I think

[glacial blaze]

• its only bad if you have multiple jokers with effects that do nothing extra when repeated, but even then you have the option to sell the original one since the effect will last until the end of the blind
• situational isnt good either but as long as youre past around ante 2.5 its good
• i do not want to continue defending oil but its good
• im just speaking from experience with silver, every time ive used it ive always gotten around 3 procs

[lapis patio]

🎉🎉glad to hear your opinion on it has changed

[oblique heart]

[golden sparrow]

Imagine.

[hollow nimbus]

An Alchemical card that gives more Alchemical cards- An Alchemical Emperor, if you will

[lapis patio]

lmfao

seeker 2

[golden sparrow]

But the tarot for two tarots is where we draw the line?

[oblique heart]

• Just in general Antimony is unrealiable. Basically: random = bad (most of the time), but on average it'll give you some mults/chips, so I won't complain much about it
• I've said pretty much the same about Uranium before
• Bro, you can't justify Silver being good cuz you hit it big

Gamba addict spotted

[oblique heart]

it can generate itself

[lapis patio]

nono this is funny and good

i'm fine with it

[cyan magnet]

why not just say 'create 2 alchemy cards'

[golden sparrow]

Salt into Salt? I do like getting The Fool off of Emperor just so I can get another Emperor..

[cyan magnet]

just delete seeker

[lapis patio]

theres a modded planet that is high priestess 2 and i love it so much

[lapis patio]

keep both

trust, its fun

[cyan magnet]

why

ngl i kinda dislike seeker

[oblique heart]

wait, that's illegal

[golden sparrow]

one has choice, one does not. One can only be used during a blind, but you don't get the cards until after.

[cyan magnet]

fair

[lapis patio]

different classifications of consumables make a tangible difference, for example for fortune teller or essence of comedy (if i'm remembering the name right)

[golden sparrow]

Right?! It's already it the game. It's the same soup, just a different flavor. This one with salt

[lapis patio]

choosing between hermit, hanged man and seeker is very different from choosing between sulfur, brimstone and salt

[oblique heart]

what's wrong with Seeker?

Btw, guys, don't you think alchemicals lack joker synergies?

we need more Jokers

[golden sparrow]

Do we? For what's already in the base game, how many Jokers exist for their corresponding consumables?

Imma check.

[oblique heart]

not many

[glacial blaze]

• decided to do the calculations and +20 mult or more happens 59.04% of the time (just under 3 in 5) and $20 or more happens 24.116543207% of the time (just under 1 in 4)

[golden sparrow]

Tarots have six jokers, planets three and spectrals two. Codex has eight jokers..

[glacial blaze]

there should really be more spectral jokers

[golden sparrow]

And the two spectral jokers in the base game only create cards, they don't really care about them

[lapis patio]

maybe something to do with equal and opposite reactions? so something like this but with way better phrasing
third law - common
alchemicals gain Hands equal to gained Discards, and Discards equal to gained Hands

[glacial blaze]

i could just make one right now

spectral effects happen twice

[cyan magnet]

spectral cards have no downside

[cyan magnet]

astronomer, constellation, and?

[glacial blaze]

8 ball

[golden sparrow]

-1, -2 hands. -3 if you really wanna

[cyan magnet]

1.0.1

[golden sparrow]

Satellite

[cyan magnet]

ah

[golden sparrow]

It's not even good

[glacial blaze]

sorry im currently trying to figure out what this number means

[lapis patio]

version number for the new update

[glacial blaze]

yeah ik

[golden sparrow]

1.0.1f

[lapis patio]

8ball gives tarots now

[cyan magnet]

6 tarot jokers
8 ball
vagabond
cartomancer
fortune teller
i forgot the others

[glacial blaze]

oh cool they reverted it to the demo version

[golden sparrow]

Moving to #⚙・modding-general anyone?

[cyan magnet]

1 in 4 chance for each played 8 to give a tarot card

[glacial blaze]

oh cool they removed the pair thing as well

[oblique ether]

magnet + mime/baron is wild

pls don't change magnet btw it's such a fun card

[golden sparrow]

... what

oooooooo

huge

[oblique heart]

Out of all CA Jokers only mutated joker can make a build

everything else is quite underpowered to build your strategy around

Oh and Essence of comedy

ofc

Buffoon and Shock Humor need buffs

Studios Joker is wow...

[glacial blaze]

i think shock humor is fine, maybe the probability could be a bit higher though

[oblique heart]

it absolutely should be higher

it requires way too much

[glacial blaze]

bottled buffoon should also have a lower cooldown than 6

[oblique heart]

It should count cards drawn

instead of hands played

for more synergies

with Alchemic cards

[glacial blaze]

ok

25? 20?

[oblique heart]

~25

[glacial blaze]

yea

[lapis patio]

didn't it get buffed to 4?

[glacial blaze]

did it?

[oblique heart]

you draw cards both for playing and Discarding

[oblique heart]

it did

[glacial blaze]

oh cool

[golden sparrow]

I had to lower the count on Bottled by one and I'm currently testing it.

I might make a mock up for the drawn version and see how it feels

[oblique heart]

I'd very glad

we have so many «drawing» effects on alchemicals

it's a nobrainer change imo

should've been done long ago

[golden sparrow]

I'm not Feder

[oblique heart]

Me neither

[languid shoal]

is... is brimstone not just sulfur?

[golden sparrow]

What do you mean?

[languid shoal]

like

in real life

why is there a brimstone card and a sulfur card i thought they were the same thing

[oblique heart]

brimstone is black sulfur

[last snow]

Studious Joker is meant to be an early game supplement powered by 🤓, meant to be disposable for later, and giving you an extra ACard while doing so.

[fossil grail]

Now the background has a different color!

[lapis patio]

lmfao i'll just ignore the other thing then

[fossil grail]

what other thing?

[lapis patio]

indeed, what other thing could i be talking about...?

[oblique heart]

[oblique heart]

color nicely matches the pallet of the alch. cards

looks neato

[obtuse rune]

Oh right

[obtuse rune]

Shock humor should be smth like 1 in 3

When feder and I pump out our next project I'll get to jokermaxxing

I've already concepted some jokers I think folks might like

[oblique heart]

[spice yacht]

hmrngh, mushroom soup :)

[stray fossil]

glad you enjoy my tier 3 voucher mod. It is a resource btw

[golden sparrow]

Any teasers on what it is or are you two just going to drop what it is right before it's ready to release?

[obtuse rune]

feder handles the teasers

[golden sparrow]

[oblique ether]

suggestion: change showman to affect alchemical cards

[lapis patio]

i think thats better suited for a steamodded change

but also feder does do api stuff 👀

wait lemme make sure that'd need to be a steamodded change for it to be proper

[forest quest]

Should do that automatically, no?

[golden sparrow]

How do you check something like at?

[lapis patio]

i also assumed that but giving her the benefit of the doubt that hopefully she would've checked

[lapis patio]

just gonna look at what showman actually does

[forest quest]

wait no I forgot

[oblique ether]

makes jokers and spectral/tarot/planet cards appear multiple times

[golden sparrow]

But in code speak

[tepid tinsel]

at that point you need to write a custom API for like, just things like that in general

[lapis patio]

going to see if what showman does is actually specific to the categories listed or if the setting it changes is like everything but vouchers

[tepid tinsel]

I think any changes to basegame jokers for the purpose of mod extendability should be either

A) A part of their own individual solution

B) A part of the modloader itself

[lapis patio]

^

[tepid tinsel]

API/Library hell is inevitable, but it's less sucky if like

You actually have structure for it

And mods that do just one thing like idk, a mod that allows you to insert multiple consumable types into pools of jokers/cards

Because then that mod becomes a dependency for other mods

And it's like, actually workable

but if it's attached to BigChungus's Awesome Jokers 2000 or whatever then its like, okay yeah this is a very welcome change but I'd prefer it without the 20 other additions the mod creator made

[oblique ether]

another suggestion: have borax show the current most common suit

not being able to see what ur common suit is makes borax hard to use without tracking it manually

[lapis patio]

when its not tied its easy

[oblique ether]

it's def easy if you have a build around a certain suit, but i don't keep track otherwise

[lapis patio]

you can see the number in the deck view

[golden sparrow]

I open up the deck and just look at all my suits but you're right a tooltip would be a nice touch to it

[lapis patio]

^

tooltip would be nice, true

[tepid tinsel]

You're running into the information problem again I think, I guess it's up to Feder and Lyman and they have to decide if that's something that they want to disclose or if it's something they'd prefer to keep out of the tooltip

[oblique ether]

wait it reads the most common suit on your cards? i thought it meant most played suit

my bad then lol

[tepid tinsel]

Most played would be a total nightmare to track

[golden sparrow]

Yeahh

I'm think of the Demo Vouchers that did stuff like that.

[lapis patio]

btw yeah it looks like showman just excludes certain things instead of specifying whats included, at least to my inexperienced eyes

[tepid tinsel]

Showman has like

a hardcoded display

[lapis patio]

true i mean the actual effect

[tepid tinsel]

I think it'd be very very good if someone wrote like a Vanilla++ mod which basically changes nothing gameplay wise but opens up vanilla jokers like Smeared, Blackboard, Showman, cards like Fool to extension

[lapis patio]

so true

[tepid tinsel]

Literally no gameplay change, no rebalancing no nothing

[lapis patio]

emi did that blackboard thing

[tepid tinsel]

Just providing a library and an API

[nova whale]

showman logically would work on all card types, it just specifies the vanilla ones in the description

[tepid tinsel]

I'll see how difficult it would be to open up Showman/Fool etc. and I'll dm emi to see if they wanna collab

[tepid tinsel]

True, but having it be disclosed in the description would be very useful

• even if no mechanical change occurs it'd provide a framework for modded Jokers to work off of

[lapis patio]

https://discord.com/channels/1116389027176787968/1235445837434454106 here it is

was looking for it

[tepid tinsel]

it is pretty good

[golden sparrow]

Confirmed.

[oblique ether]

gotcha

[keen cairn]

Resource?

[stray fossil]

Yeah. If you wanna use it to make custom tier 3s for mods, you can

[keen cairn]

Ah I get'cha. I've considered getting into modding, and while I could probably fumble through the coding, the complete lack of art skills is discouraging

[lapis patio]

you should try fumbling through the art too

or calling in a game show lifeline (finding someone else to do the art)

small icons are very fun if you wanna join me in somehow finding a bunch of reasons to make them

[lapis patio]

woah first time seeing the spectral

[golden sparrow]

Lucky

I wonder how many packs you have to crack on average to get it

[keen cairn]

if it's anything like soul, a lot, but then you'll find seeds where you randomly get it 2 packs in a row, lol

[golden sparrow]

Google say 0.3%

[lapis patio]

i'm just lucky yeah

i get the soul often too

[keen cairn]

I wish I got soul more often, I've barely seen the legendaries that the mods I use add

but morefluff's new color cards has one that helps with that

[lapis patio]

theres a mod to increase the chance if you want

[lapis patio]

i've mostly just gotten a bunch of xplaying cards from the high card mod cause he only recently made them not pollute the legendary pool

[fossil grail]

oh they released it?

[lapis patio]

fortuno a few times and feste once or twice

[keen cairn]

mhm, today or last night or smth

[fossil grail]

Oh that's cool

[hollow nimbus]

Oh, what does the Philosopher's Stone do? Does it play Full Metal Alchemist?

[lapis patio]

it also ||has cool visual effects when you use it||

[hollow nimbus]

Oh, potent- I love it

And it only shows up in Alchemy Packs, right? Or is it stick in Spectral Packs, like the other Spectrals?

[keen cairn]

I mean soul and black hole can show up in spectral as well as respectively arcana and celestial

so I'd presume it'd be in Spectral packs too

[lapis patio]

^

i got it in an alchemy pack

[hollow nimbus]

Nice

[fossil grail]

Wait, we didn’t mention it in the patch notes?

[brazen wyvern]

Are color cards supposed to be in the alchemical tag

[fossil grail]

No…

Wait, they appear in it?

[brazen wyvern]

Yeah

So color cards ARENT from codex arcanum

[fossil grail]

Yeah they are not

They are from morefluff

Speaking of which

[brazen wyvern]

Cool I updated my list and didn't know

[fossil grail]

@nova whale What are color cards doing in alchemy decks XD

[brazen wyvern]

I think it's the tag itself

[nova whale]

i have no clue

i will try and fix it

[brazen wyvern]

Ngl I thought it was from the mod because of how they synergize

[nova whale]

are they all colours?

[lapis patio]

yeah ime

[fossil grail]

What

What have you done XD

[lapis patio]

let me go test a bit

its not an alchemy pack at all from the tag

it just opens the wrong pack

[nova whale]

oh fuck mb

[lapis patio]

lmao

[fossil grail]

XD

all good

[golden sparrow]

Where'd you get that code from?

[lapis patio]

morefluff

[blazing shadow]

when you copy their homework but forgot to change names:

[fossil grail]

XD

[nova whale]

feder's code help greatly in the creation of colour packs lmao

[fossil grail]

I’m glad I help people get closer to their mod’s vision

[brazen wyvern]

Oh also

The lucky alchemical card makes 4 polychrome tags

[fossil grail]

What alchemical card?

Oh silver?

How does it even do that

[lapis patio]

probably colour card thing again

[nova whale]

oh wait, i don't check for the set

mb

fixed for 1.3.2

[lapis patio]

if you keep putting out hotfixes watching that number tick up is going to be very funny

[blazing shadow]

1.3.69 incoming

[fossil grail]

I’m actually interested to hear

What do you guys want from the future of codex?

[lapis patio]

thats a good question

a few more jokers mostly

other stuff would also be cool but jokers are the only thing i'd be a bit sad about if there weren't more added

[fossil grail]

We do have plans for adding some more homers

Jokers

[lapis patio]

homers

[fossil grail]

I hate autocorrect

[strange tangle]

homers

[oblique heart]

new Jokers mostly
second on the list is balancing and potential reworks

Oh and Mortar voucher could be changed probably?

not necessary ofc

I was also conceptualizing new stake difficulty/new themed bosses

I'll share that later