Codex Arcanum - Alchemical Cards and abilities

[oblique heart]

Mb it didn't fit?

like there is not enough space

[fossil grail]

2 vouchers, joker rebalancing, a new API, a new tag

[oblique heart]

Thanks for covering everything

[fossil grail]

there might be more, the version is not fully sealed

[oblique heart]

wait a minute

I see what did there

[fossil grail]

wait i didn't mean that like that XD

or did i?

[oblique heart]

ok ok

[halcyon cobalt]

it seems like it would be about the same length as manganese

and that fit

[sterile patrol]

what's magnet's effect?

[halcyon cobalt]

ooh

i like it

[sterile patrol]

ooh!

seems pretty useful

[oblique heart]

(which suffers from lack of space)

look how some letters were changed

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

but that happens with the tarots too

and lodestone has less letters than manganese

[oblique heart]

sure but it's better to avoid it

[oblique heart]

idk how it would look like honestly

Im just assuming

[halcyon cobalt]

it'd probably work

[oblique heart]

seems very reasonable
while aero draws you twice as many cards, those cards are completely random
but magnet gives less cards in exchange for a targeted draw

[fossil grail]

exactly

[sterile patrol]

does it draw them from your deck, or does it create 2 new ones?

[fossil grail]

draw from deck

[sterile patrol]

oh that's INSANE actually

i could see some really cool plays with this one

[oblique heart]

with all cards revealed I think Soap by far has the most questionable effect

[halcyon cobalt]

what's soap's effect again

[oblique heart]

^

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

it seems like a pretty bad effect

aero is better in every way since you get 4 new cards and you keep the cards you had in your hand in the first place

[oblique heart]

and even if u implement this change, it would overlap with Magnet

which is quite bad

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

[oblique heart]

Remember the effect Clay suggested for Lead?

[halcyon cobalt]

no

[oblique heart]

I think it would fit soap

• Your cards can't be destroyed or debuffed and always score for one blind.

[halcyon cobalt]

ooh yeah

like it scrubs the debuff

[oblique heart]

Purification

yeah

[halcyon cobalt]

that seems like a great idea

does the always score thing mean like splash

[oblique heart]

yes

[halcyon cobalt]

oh uh

i think that is a bit powerful

[oblique heart]

@fossil grail What do you think about giving soap this effect instead?

[halcyon cobalt]

probably the can't be debuffed thing would be best

and lead could get the cards can't be destroyed thing

[oblique heart]

I'd say with all that was mentioned in the effect it'd still be on a weaker side

No debuffs is niche
No destruction is niche
And splash effect is the only consistent thing

[halcyon cobalt]

eh

i think that there could be some better secondary effects than the splash and destruction prevention

[oblique heart]

I'm listening

[halcyon cobalt]

oh uh

[verbal quiver]

Alchemy card idea: Acid: Pick 3 cards, the right two will have the same rank as the leftmost for a blind

[oblique heart]

@verbal quiver

[verbal quiver]

oh wait that's just magnet

Acid: x2 mult for next hand (3 uses left)

[oblique heart]

that's a worse glass

[oblique ether]

idk if you're also trying to make this mod compatible with 1.0.1c, but i found a bug on that if ur interested in fixing it
the perishable and rental info tabs don't appear on alchemy jokers when they have any of those stickers

[viral herald]

cant wait for cement

[sterile patrol]

ohhhh cement could possibly be sick

for the rest of the blind, all hands played that don't have 5 cards have the rest of their slots filled with stone cards

[viral herald]

rubber,,,

[hollow nimbus]

'The first and last card scored in the next Poker hand are retriggered', maybe, referencing how rubber tends to bounce?

[oblique heart]

idk man I overcooked again

I have no idea but I feel like something is off

mb it's the colors

[oblique heart]

damn that's so flavorful

ahaha

I love that

but I feel like it's quite op

[viral herald]

glue ?

[oblique heart]

oh yeah, my favorite source of inspiration

[golden sparrow]

You don't say

[oblique heart]

It could be easily abused in early Antes by playing high card

for free wins

I don't like that personally

but the concept is funny

[oblique heart]

• When your next poker hand scores, all held in hand cards also score.

[golden sparrow]

It's fine. Remember, these are single use cards that don't provide permanent scaling or deck manipulation

[oblique heart]

• After your next poker hand scores, add copies of all scored cards to your hand for one blind.

[halcyon cobalt]

cards can't be debuffed or flipped during this blind (jokers included)
cards cannot be destroyed by jokers or enhancements (cards can still be destroyed by consumables)

[halcyon cobalt]

maybe have it just affect the next played hand

or only give 2 stone cards max

[oblique heart]

still just play a high card to get free 200 chips

[oblique heart]

hmmmm

[oblique heart]

Cement
• Whenever you play a poker hand with 4 or less cards this blind, add a Stone card to it.

Rubber
• After your next poker hand scores, return all scored cards back to your hand.

Glue
• When your next poker hand scores, all held in hand cards also score.

[halcyon cobalt]

what do you think of this

for soap

[oblique heart]

dude you do realize that there's like one Boss in the whole game that can flip cards?

[halcyon cobalt]

whatever

just go with the lead thing

and maybe add the flipping prevention too

[oblique heart]

Also, did you suggest a single effect or they are two separate ones?

[halcyon cobalt]

uh

it was meant to be one effect but idk anymore

[oblique heart]

it's very convoluted
It sounds like: «Make your cards immune to these 4 specific effects that you barely come across during your run».

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

what was the lead effect again

[halcyon cobalt]

where are you getting those from

[viral herald]

https://www.symbols.com/category.php?id=9&name=Alchemical

but also i think itay and lyman are making their own

[halcyon cobalt]

oh cool

[viral herald]

like bismuth (as far i could tell) is just neptune

[halcyon cobalt]

i mean

pretty sure that in alchemy the symbols referred to planets and materials

like with mercury

[viral herald]

yeah but not in this case unless i didnt do enough research

[halcyon cobalt]

i mean

hmm

wait yeah

when i look it up it says bismuth is like OC but rotated 90 degrees counterclockwise

[obtuse rune]

i dont remember where i got bismuth from

ah now i remember

yeah no its a real symbol

[viral herald]

whered you find it

[obtuse rune]

wikipedia LMAO

its the Torbern Bergman symbol for it

[viral herald]

thats colbalt ?

[halcyon cobalt]

no cobalt is that symbol but rotated 180 degrees

[viral herald]

yeah so

bismuth is the symbol for neptune

[oblique heart]

@obtuse rune I've noticed that in the font you use the letter "S" is very weirdly shaped

Is there a better way to do it?

[obtuse rune]

thats just how tarots do it

[oblique heart]

understood

[spice yacht]

between soap, lead, and tin, there's been several different suggestions of elements to be 'prevent debuffs'

i still lean towards tin

[oblique heart]

soap cleansing debuffs fits best, no?

[oblique ether]

another good one could be "make X amount of cards Wild suit (for X time?)"

[oblique heart]

that's a better Borax

#1221916334372290620 message

[oblique ether]

Gotcha

[nova whale]

oh yeah that's crazy with seance

[oblique ether]

Idk thought it'd make wild useful lol

[oblique heart]

seance??

[nova whale]

draw a straight, you get a straight flush

[oblique heart]

i see i see

[verbal quiver]

Acid (3rd rework): Rettrigger all cards for the next hand

[golden sparrow]

already a card coming out

[fossil grail]

too similar to Philosopher's stone sadly

[cyan magnet]

what are the alchemical cards in rn

[oblique heart]

here's wiki https://github.com/itayfeder/Codex-Arcanum/wiki/List-of-Alchemical-Cards

[fossil grail]

• Soap, Manganese, Wax, Borax, Glass, Magnet

[fossil grail]

https://gyazo.com/7dd73a667b1ebba01165ab7c5c6ffec3.mp4
new pack stuff!

[agile tulip]

cool

[nova whale]

how did you do this

[fossil grail]

using @outer pike's awesome help

[outer pike]

by cheating

[nova whale]

oh i see

[outer pike]

(buttons aren't all that complicated to mess with, as it happens)

[fossil grail]

true

just never thought about using them XD

[outer pike]

(basically just override the function call the button uses with a different, similar function)

shoutouts to Usable Jokers for being the progenitor of the code at work here tbh

(fusion jokers did it first but i made usable jokers before fusions came out :))) )

(one day usable jokers will be usable, trust)

[fossil grail]

XD

[outer pike]

it literally needs like two more things ok

i just do not have the thinking stick

[nova whale]

ok but can i get a quick easy and free way of doing this please and thank you i cannot read

[outer pike]

the functions

• G.UIDEF.use_and_sell_buttons
• G.FUNCS.can_select_oddity
• G.FUNCS.select_oddity
  in oddityapi

the first one has some stuff for non-consumable oddities as well, so you'll probably want to skip over the first code block therein

[nova whale]

oh wait i can see

[outer pike]

yea

please steal my code

[nova whale]

what is going on

[outer pike]

mood

[nova whale]

oh well i will do this tomorrow

[nova whale]

feder can you send your implementation of this because i have no idea what's going on in the oddity one

[outer pike]

it's the same probably

[fossil grail]

it is

[nova whale]

but it'd probably be simpler

oh

um can you see what print(not not MoreFluff.Booster) returns in your init function

[outer pike]

seeing as i dont have MoreFluff installed, it will probably return a stacktrace

[nova whale]

oh maybe

[spiral tendon]

love to see this, many thanks to everyone who made this possible

[outer pike]

🫡

[spiral tendon]

Also, alternate idea for Soap, since I've seen discussion about it being a "cleansing" effect but that preventing debuffs might be too niche/better suited for a different element:

Soap: reshuffle all discarded cards and redraw your entire hand. The idea being that rather than just increasing hand size or giving you extra hand size, it completely wipes your current situation for effectively a fresh start

So the tradeoff is less control/consistency, but more escaping a completely fucked situation, especially synergizing with bigger hand size

but also, if you have either played/discarded good cards already (like purple seals!), you have the chance to see them again

[fossil grail]

Sounds like a better phosphorus then?

[spiral tendon]

remind me what phosphorous does

[fossil grail]

Return 4 discarded cards to the deck

[outer pike]

i think the fact it can drop steel cards from your hand (and also just give you a dud hand) makes it more of a sidegrade

the simplicity of phosphorus being in its favor here

[spiral tendon]

oh right, well in fairness I think phosphor needs a rework anyway imo

[outer pike]

though i do have to say, phosphorus feels INCREDIBLY weak, but maybe i just dont play the game in a way that it works well

[spiral tendon]

I feel that way too and my suggested change was to return cards to the top of the deck, so it has potential use early on in a blind

And actually it would synergize quite well with the suggested soap change because you'd effectively be cleansing your discards to have a second fresh draw, and thus be able to control your phosphorous topdecking even more

Still not that strong, but serviceable and niche enough to matter

[nova whale]

phosphorus is probably good if you get a good hand immediately

[spiral tendon]

Another thing worth exploring might be building phosphorous to do something for straights specifically. There's a lot of things that reward rank/suit homogeneity but straights are antithetical to that

[spiral tendon]

And getting a good hand immediately is usually a situation where you don't need help, since you already got lucky

[nova whale]

if it were say
put the 4 most recent discards on top of your deck
we'd be talking

[fossil grail]

I can make it like that

[spiral tendon]

Mmm, I understand that change making it more usable more of the time but also now it's starting to feel like Aero

since if you discard 4, then redraw the same 4

or if you know they're coming after 4 new cards, you basically just drew 4 new cards

which is what using a discard already does lol

The main difference would be getting to play the same cards and then draw those played cards again

So what if it just returned the next played hand back to your hand?

cut out all the deck manip shenanigans

The cost would be you can't draw new cards because they'd fill up your hand all over again

but you'd effectively get to play any hand you draw 2 times

which actually feels way simpler and like the design idea I've been zeroing in on

Phosphorous: Return next played poker hand back to your hand

Relevant interactions include gold seals, glass cards potentially breaking, extra rolls for lucky cards, and also potentially letting it still discard non-scored cards, so if you play a high card you can score your high card but still get a 4 card discard at the same time

I don't think that's necessary though since that's basically how high card works anyway

[nova whale]

the main issue with phosphorus right now is 4 cards is practically nothing in a 52 card deck

[spiral tendon]

I'd say that there's no situation where it's worth the consumable slot it occupies, because the benefit of reshuffling a bunch of discards into your deck, which you won't draw most of the time, is virtually nonexistant. The cards selected are random, the place in the deck is random, and so even if you do draw them, it's not notably beneficial, short of some incredibly meticulous probability manipulation to try to optimize your chance of drawing some hand by like 0.1%

So yeah 4 cards being so small compared to a 52 card deck just means the already random cards are very often never even drawn again

but I'd say the problem is more than just that

[fossil grail]

We will see how we can rebalance the cards

[golden sparrow]

I made Phosphorus return the four most recently discarded cards back to your hand and I've found much more use for it.

[oblique heart]

I've already suggested a phos. QoL buff in an easy and reasonable manner: return 5 cards (prioritizing modified cards)

So, you won't get random junk that you've discarded during this round

[oblique heart]

That's like a busted version of Aero

No?

[oblique heart]

but even with this change the general idea of the card still kinda sucks

it's an indirect, slow effect that requires additional setup

[golden sparrow]

Maybe. depends how many cards I made my Aero draw. But if you want to know what's busted let me ask a question for ya, do you know if "played" cards are "discarded"

[oblique heart]

Oh, sry. Missed that part.
But this kind of effect is as niche as the current one

That's only useful for abusing Purple seals and mb burned joker ig?

[golden sparrow]

Played cards are considered discarded after scoring.

[oblique heart]

So, we are back to this huh

[golden sparrow]

You can score a hand and return the four rightmost cards back to your hand

but it doesn't have to be four

[oblique heart]

You score 4 powerful cards, use phos. and get that same 4 powerful cards back to build the same poker hand with those 4 cards

that's gotta be better than Aero

[oblique heart]

look at what wax does

pretty much the same thing value-wise

[spiral tendon]

It seems like virtually the same as this

[oblique heart]

yes

[golden sparrow]

Pretty much. I modded this change like a week ago

[spiral tendon]

I don't think that's particularly overpowered, and I think the "draw 4 cards" from aero is distinct because of its interactions with hand size effects, held in hand effects

[golden sparrow]

The effect is fine. Don't get hung up on the value of four. it can be two

or three, or one.

[oblique heart]

make it 2 cards and then compare it to Wax

[spiral tendon]

Wax is like 1 blind Cryptid no?

[oblique heart]

Wax would be just almost always a straight upgrade

yes

[spiral tendon]

I don't understand how "play the same hand twice" is comparable to "duplicate this card twice"

[oblique heart]

podder wants to limit returned cards to 2

[spiral tendon]

Oh oh I see

[oblique heart]

from played hand

[spiral tendon]

yeah I think it's fine for it to return 5 frankly

[oblique heart]

how's that lol

[golden sparrow]

I mean I don't want anything. I'm just saying what I do to my game and what I feel is balenced from how I play. My Alch packs all cost a dollar more.

[spiral tendon]

even if it makes phosphorous very meta, I don't think it's bad for it to be good

[oblique heart]

It's like Aero but you get 5 cards that you always need

???

[spiral tendon]

Mmmmm

[oblique heart]

what am I missing here

[oblique heart]

damn inflation

[nova whale]

do you have the jumbos and megas costing more? because i'm pretty sure them all having the same price is a bug

should be 4/6/8 to match the others

[oblique heart]

yes, you are right

there's currently a bug

[golden sparrow]

They are powerful effects but I don't think they're better than being able to upgrade hands with Planet or change your deck with Tarots.

[oblique heart]

I told devs the same but they answered me that they value Alc. cards just as much as Tarots

so packs cost would be the same

which I personally don't agree with

but we'll have to wait and see how's the new patch will go

[obtuse rune]

i cant speak for feder but im pretty sure the pack cost thing is just a bug

[golden sparrow]

I already have a list of changes I want to make

[oblique heart]

it gotta be since mega and regular cost the same

[golden sparrow]

it is. I've already posted here twice where it is in the code. the value is 4 all the way down in the booster pack table thing.

[oblique heart]

Use the doc. if you don't mind :D!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-3UX_5q1N0Uh6P6QVmzDLU9jr4UWafAi8YSJcBti4PI/edit?usp=drivesdk

It's open for everyone

just type in your stuff and sing it with your name

it's not necessary but still will be better if we all could organize our thoughts

messages could get missed in the chat

[viral herald]

what the lithium

[spiral tendon]

one way of framing the two is a bit like card reward screens vs potions in slay the spire, obviously they can both sort of be potions (like using The World to make a spade flush in a pinch or smth), but if the idea is that alc cards are meant to hold you over through a tough threshold but without leaving you in better shape afterwards, i could see the value of alc cards being more variable than the reliable value of tarots that set your deck or your econ up for longer term, but with less reliable short term benefit

[spiral tendon]

I was doing some thinking about this point and I think the approach to a lot of these cards is sort of "what would be an interesting effect" and maybe not quite as much "what role does this card play in the broader ecosystem of the game". Maybe the role that phosphorous plays can overlap somewhat with aero, in a way like how temperance serves a comparable purpose to the hermit, but the two are distinct so that their desired effect is produced under potentially different circumstances

That's not to say phosphorous should just be "better aero" but idk, I think there are reasons to draw for more cards that aren't simply to play the strongest possible hand right now. Quicksilver (I think) expanding your hand size by 2 could produce more potential value than aero but there's a distinguishing identity to each, and I think getting to play a hand twice doesn't have as much versatility as aero's drawing 4 cards, even if it may be more valuable more of the time. It can play your gold seals more, but it stops you from digging for your gold cards or steel cards etc.

[oblique heart]

yeah but the balance of some alc. is in quite a bad spot rn

[spiral tendon]

absolutely true

[oblique heart]

if not that, I'd have no problems with packs cost

[half gate]

Comparing back to Temperance and Hermit - Hermit may be more reliably useful, but Temperance has a higher potential payout depending on your jokers, and will get you out of a bad economic spot where Hermit won't

They're both "money on sale", as the Egg puts it, but in different ways that produce different use cases

[spiral tendon]

Right

[oblique heart]

it's more like that we compare bursty powerful temporary effects and less powerful but more permanent effects

that's how i see it

[spiral tendon]

And I think that as a guiding philosophy would serve the mod well to abide by

I think it's not clear to me actually, do you feel alc packs should be more or less expensive than they are (not counting the price bug)?

[oblique heart]

should be less expensive due to the current state of power of most alc. cards

even ignis and aqua need buffs

+1 hand/discard are quite negligible most of the time, their only saving grace is that they provide flexible consistent value

but still that's not enough imo

Some of the other elements that have more "unique" effects suffer from not providing enough base value and are very niche and specific (and even when you meet all conditions they still don't pop off quite as expected)

[spiral tendon]

Mhm

[oblique heart]

While I understand the urge to create fun and unique effects, without proper balance, it would be a lackluster to play with these cards

[spiral tendon]

I can definitely cite experiences where I found I was holding onto an alc card because I was hoping it would come in handy, and then never feeling like I was in a situation where it felt worth it to use because I was either fine without it or dead even with it

and some other times where, with the mod's jokers, I was generating so many that I had an infinite

[oblique heart]

my personal nitpick - I think that the main vertical stick should be shorter abd the ")" shaped line should be moved down as well

other than that great art🔥

[spiral tendon]

oh yeah loving that lithium

[viral herald]

gotcha

[oblique heart]

that happens to me way too many times

very relatable

[viral herald]

its a “custom” symbol from one of the dwarf planets i forget which

[oblique heart]

oh, i see

pluto?

[viral herald]

pluto is like P and L mixed

[spiral tendon]

And then, because of that happening, looking at a $4 alc pack and thinking "well what are the odds I'm gonna get something I wanna keep here" makes a lot of sense

[oblique heart]

yeah, there needs to be at least 50% of the cards be on a stronger side of the spectrum to consider buying these packs

while atm it's like 25%

mb even less actually

[spiral tendon]

I think... I kinda think maybe alc cards just shouldn't produce money wholesale at all, if I'm being honest

cuz it feels like it throws the point of them out the window if you're both trying to design something that's like "be really strong, for now" and also something that says "you might be able to get some value, later"

[oblique heart]

this pretty much explains it all #1221916334372290620 message

the only 3 permanent effects - the most valuable

obviously

[oblique heart]

I was saying the same
I also insisted on adding a +20% to the blind debuff for the Salt, so it would have at least SOME effect that affects combat

[spiral tendon]

Yeah

[oblique heart]

I can pretty much predict that if Salt just stays the same (+1 tag) it would be the most used card by far

free tags are no joke

[spiral tendon]

mhm for sure

[golden sparrow]

Did you see what I put in your docs?

[oblique heart]

Let me check

[spiral tendon]

It makes sense from the perspective of hearing neat ideas and just wanting to implement them, but yeah when you take a step back and look at the design it's clear how stepping out of the realm of "large, short term benefit" sort of makes a restricted meta

[oblique heart]

I actually have no idea what that means:

Studious Joker, The Seeker, & Salt
Change giving their respective card(s) or tag to give the same amount of
Alchemy Tags.

Can you rephrase that?

So, you like get a pack instead of a alc. card?

[golden sparrow]

Studious gives one Alchemy Tag when you sell him. The Seeker gives you two Alchemy Tags. Salt gives you an Alchemy Tag.

Yes.

You get a choice. so it's slightly better.

[oblique heart]

Not a bad idea actually, give player more choice since quite a lot of alc. cards are niche in their use

and they are temporary by nature

[golden sparrow]

Exactly. If one really fits your deck you'll have a higher chance to grab them.

[oblique heart]

but you better rephrase what you typed cuz it pretty confusing at first glance

or mb it's just me

idk xd

[oblique heart]

yeah

[oblique heart]

@fossil grail what do you think about this change?

[spiral tendon]

Salt giving an Alc tag feels like Emperor in exactly the right way

[oblique heart]

You ment Starseeker?

alc. tag gives you one regular acl. pack

[spiral tendon]

I was referring to their suggested change to make Salt give you 1 alc tag, i.e. generate a different alc card you can choose from

Though maybe worth considering having Salt be literally just emperor for alcs

instead of a choice thing

[fossil grail]

We have an emperor for alchs, it’s the seeker

[spiral tendon]

oh have I not seen that

[fossil grail]

I am not sure how I feel about that TBH

[golden sparrow]

Shouldn't you be asleep

[fossil grail]

8 pm

[spiral tendon]

lol

[oblique heart]

lmao even

[spiral tendon]

Okay I see everything in context now

[fossil grail]

Also it’s a holiday, so we had a fancy dinner

[spiral tendon]

One thing to keep in mind if you'd replace card gen with tag gen is that double tags are already kinda fragile so it might not be preferred to pop them the first time you see a Salt

[oblique heart]

It's mostly needed since the balance of a good number of alc. is on a weaker side

so this all is unnecessary if most balance issues would be resolved i think

a lot of alc. cards have quite specific effects, so at least giving player more choice would change the situation slightly

[spiral tendon]

I think it would be better to address the more foundational balance issues since imo it shouldn't be necessary to generate tags in those ways

i.e. target a different problem

[oblique heart]

sure thing

I'm just saying this could be a temporary bandaid fix

[spiral tendon]

oh for sure

[oblique heart]

until things would be figured out

[golden sparrow]

Hot peppers!!

[fossil grail]

We are still looking into balancing the alchs (primarily doing some stuff for soap and sulfur), so be on the lookout for that

[golden sparrow]

When you say balancing Sulfur do you mean changing values, or effect?

[fossil grail]

Both

[golden sparrow]

I have an idea. You get $1-2 for every card played and scored during this blind

I'll think of a Breaking Bozo rewording/effect because I feel like that may be needed sooner than later

[oblique heart]

great to hear that you've entered balancing phase

hope everything will work out well

[oblique heart]

mb something that actually affects combat, like: every card you play costs you -1$ but gives +50 chips/mult/or whatever that might be

just direct econ value is a no-brainer

[fervent shuttle]

That looks really fun!!! Imagine the strategies with using and preserving to use this card!

[oblique heart]

indeed

[fervent shuttle]

Is there an available update by the way? No pressure to the dev

[fossil grail]

Not yet, this update has a lot of things going on within it, and we are doing a round of testing and balancing before we release it

[obtuse rune]

Basically:

[cyan magnet]

idk if im the only one but salt and sulphur def feel like 'use now' consumables

[oblique heart]

Speaking of play testing: I'm free this Friday-Saturday

I can do ~10 runs for stats and looking for bugs

[verbal quiver]

Can we add uranium for funnies? /hj

[tiny marten]

It has no alchemy symbol that we know of, so that would have to be freestyled

[fossil grail]

it would be funny to do that though XD

[fossil grail]

so, you remember how we said that we will only add six alchemicals to 1.1?

well...

[oblique heart]

[tiny marten]

What did you do, other than coke

[fossil grail]

bolivian shouting powder

[halcyon cobalt]

more alchemicals????

[viral herald]

lithium confirmed fr

[halcyon cobalt]

i hope we get phlogiston

[oblique heart]

Looks like there've been a change of plans

[halcyon cobalt]

there've?

[fossil grail]

we are keeping lithium to you

[fossil grail]

I am only the programmer of the mod

Lyman is the artist

the amazing one

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

agreed

[viral herald]

alright, ill be adding it to my own mod then :3

[fossil grail]

looking forward to see it in the future!

[halcyon cobalt]

are there going to be more alchemicals in the update

[fossil grail]

Yes

3 of them to be exact

[halcyon cobalt]

which ones

[fossil grail]

You’ll see…

[oblique heart]

Luna, Sol and Lead mb? (my guess)

[viral herald]

saw one being tested earlier

[halcyon cobalt]

i just hope one of them is phlogiston

[obtuse rune]

https://tenor.com/view/schizo-cat-the-voices-gif-25415230

[halcyon cobalt]

what

[obtuse rune]

itay took my lithium pills

[halcyon cobalt]

oh

[outer pike]

lyman busy being the awesome artist

[floral tulip]

have we got thy update yet :D

[cyan magnet]

no

[golden sparrow]

Still some balancing for the Jokers I believe and some talk about adding a few more cards.

I believe, don't quote me.

[fossil grail]

Gold!

[agile tulip]

pls update link, look cool

[fossil grail]

it's not released yet

[fossil grail]

And silver!

[oblique heart]

Speaking of Uranium - it could be a secret element that is unlocked via certain specific actions

[fossil grail]

oh that would be fun

[oblique heart]

you can make a separate 5th page appear in the collection with Uranium in the center or something like that

[fossil grail]

that might be fun

[tiny marten]

What would those be?

[solar delta]

O_O This is good but also, would it remove previous enhancements ?

kinda making it a clear slate in a way after use of gold

[fossil grail]

yes

[solar delta]

that is so cool

youre a genius

(i love gassing up local modders in balatro)

[outer pike]

local modders love gaslighting you too

[smoky vigil]

is there any chance of making these cards give permanent run buffs

[obtuse rune]

probably not

[oblique heart]

DNA

it works in the current version

I abused Bismuth via DNA

[obtuse rune]

In that sense sure

[oblique heart]

I think i misunderstood the question

By design Alc. shouldn't give direct permanent benefits

correct me if I'm wrong

[golden sparrow]

Yeah you got it the second time around. He mentioned yesterday his thoughts that Alch cards are underpowered.

[spice yacht]

🎶 Spandau Ballet - Gold

[fossil grail]

BTW the tabs are bigger now!

[nova whale]

awesome

are you going to 24?

[fossil grail]

yes

[outer pike]

ill keep tabs on your tabs

[tiny marten]

Like use 5 Alchemical cards, that are not negative, in one blind

Because fission

[fossil grail]

huh that's fun

[outer pike]

unlock api....

[tiny marten]

If you do make it a card

It definitely deserves to have its symbol be that of Uranus

I mean it’s named after the damn backwards planet

Also imma suggest orange and green for the energy spark things around it because classic green radiation and uranium ceramics being orange

[oblique heart]

Wait, what does Luna?

[fossil grail]

Silver?

[oblique heart]

yeah

[fossil grail]

what about it?

[outer pike]

once you make update with Silver in it i'll make my Moon planet able to spawn alchemical card

[oblique heart]

Oh, I mean what effect does it have? Since you showed off Gold, I thought I've missed what silver does

[fossil grail]

converts 4 cards to lucky cards for one blind

[oblique heart]

thanks for clarifying

[fossil grail]

it is just a pun, but i like it

[oblique heart]

one fun synergy I am thinking about is if, let's say, Silver were also granting you a Opps all 6s effect for one blind, it could synergize with glass

Do you think that's would be op?

[fossil grail]

hmm... i like that

[oblique heart]

I feel like a temporary Opps all 6s effect could be a fun thing to play with

since you can potentially stack the effect

if you have multiple copies

that'd require some extra text unfortunately, so the only way it could be shortened is something like: «Bla-bla and doubles all probabilities for one blind.»

just without expanding on the effect like the og Joker

Can't really tell how much space that will take

[fossil grail]

i will probably summon a negative eternal oops all 6

[oblique heart]

could work as well

technically the same thing

[golden sparrow]

But are they the same width as the other base consumable tabs now?

[fossil grail]

Wdym?

[golden sparrow]

Don't listen to me I'm being stupid n nick picky

[outer pike]

that would be if each page was like 6 cards wide

[golden sparrow]

I thought they were all the same exact width. Also the celestial tab looks so weird with so much space.

[nova whale]

it's normally all on one page in vanilla

[golden sparrow]

...is it supposed to be?

[outer pike]

spectral is the oddball in vanilla

[golden sparrow]

Hold up

[outer pike]

planets only on two pages in SMODS because the API was set up to allow pages

and i think the 3-wide display was to set that up better?

[golden sparrow]

Huh didn't know that

[fossil grail]

Yeah it’s my fault with the celestial thing

I made the planet API XD

[outer pike]

im sorry

[verbal quiver]

Anyways my idea for Osmium: For the next hand, played cards return to your hand

[oblique heart]

@fossil grail how do you like the idea of incorporating diff Jokers' effects for Alc. cards (as their «temporary» versions)?

Like what I suggested for Silver

Same could be done for Gold: give it Midas Mask effect for example

[fossil grail]

That could be fun, I’ll see about it

[oblique ether]

Any plans to release an update soon? Dying to play all the new alchemy cards

[fossil grail]

The update’s scope ballooned recently, but it is in a pretty good state

[outer pike]

thats another 6 hours

[oblique heart]

Any chance you run a beta test?

[nova whale]

they said they would

[oblique heart]

understood

missed that part apparently

[fossil grail]

Wait I did?

[oblique heart]

that's why I'm asking!

I don't remember that you did

[nova whale]

this?

[fossil grail]

We may do a beta test

Right now we are doing a private test

But we might send it to more people to review

[nova whale]

if you do, can you send it to me so i can get alchemical compat

[oblique heart]

Potential candidates:

Smeared Joker
Splash (+smth else on top?)
Shortcut
Four Fingers
Pareidolia
Midas Mask
Oops all 6s
Mime
Hack? (unlikely)
Gift card? (unlikely)

[fervent shuttle]

Is this gonna replace the one that gives a flat 10 dollars? Because I hope so lol

[tiny marten]

Uranium

[normal estuary]

Hi, I getting the error "attempt to index field Voucher [a nil value]" when I'm trying to play with this mod... Does someone know why this is happening and how to fix it?

[carmine pond]

Not needed just make it a spectral alchemic card like black hole and soul

[fossil grail]

Philosopher’s stone

[cyan magnet]

what does that do

[fossil grail]

retriggers all played cards for 1 blind

[gleaming mural]

is it gonna be more common then soul/black hole then?

[stuck geyser]

@fossil grail do you think you could add your cards to the table
G.P_CENTER_POOLS.Consumeable after registering them? This doesn't seem to happen by itself when setting consumable = true

[fossil grail]

that table does not effect anything

[stuck geyser]

not in the base game, but mods could rely on all consumables being in this table. I have a voucher that combines all consumables into one pool, for example. And it uses that table

you don't have to do this, obviously. Just would be nice to also have your mod working with it

[fossil grail]

interesting. I'll add to it! Thanks for telling me, and I can't wait to try out your mod!

Oil!

(description subject to change)

[golden sparrow]

Rebuff is pretty nice for some blinds. Good card if you can't reroll boss blinds

[outer pike]

i didnt even know this table existed. gonna look into setting this for OddityAPI as well.

[fossil grail]

One more...

[oblique heart]

What kind of debuffs are there?

[fossil grail]

blind debuffs

[oblique heart]

they are all the same

[tiny marten]

So it just counters debuffing blinds?

[fossil grail]

yes

[tiny marten]

Did Uranium get an effect yet? Or just the art

[fossil grail]

It has an effect

[golden sparrow]

I want to wait to see what Uranium does

[oblique heart]

very unwise decision (imo)

We've discussed multiple times that this is a very niche effect especially compared to some other elements in terms of power level. It comes into play only during boss blinds and does nothing otherwise. Not to mention that you might not even come across a single boss blind that counters your build during the whole run to get a use of this card. Also tape voucher exists which is another thing that makes Oil even more useless :(
idk what else to add to this topic

(I'm talking about oil)

sry, forgot to make it a reply

[golden sparrow]

Then you don't pick the card. Skip the pack, buff Red Card, pass go, collect 200.

[oblique heart]

Then I have 1 less option in my pack

[golden sparrow]

happens

[oblique heart]

ok, let's add a card that gives you 20$ under a full moon only
«if you don't need it atm, don't pick it»

that's a wrong logic

i mean it's not fundamentally wrong

it's just the card we are talking about is not an option 90% of the time and even when its useful, its still pales in comparison to other elements

It's the definition of bloating the pool

I understand that this is just a fan project and all and doesn't need to be serious

I'm here just sharing my point of view

that's all

[oblique heart]

For context: there's only 6 out of 28 bosses that can debuff cards in your hand.

[tiny marten]

That’s why lead was at least somewhat better

Conceptually

[golden sparrow]

I'm content with anything we get because we already got more than nothing 🙂

[oblique heart]

I'm more of «quality over quantity» kind of guy, so not very excited with this kind of stuff. There's no deadlines, no rushing, just take your time, flesh things out and we chilling

I'm happy that we gonna play test this build first

Then at least we will have a real picture of what works and what's not

[oblique heart]

Also, I wanna say that I totally didn't expect Stone

Will we get Rock 🤘 as well?

[golden sparrow]

Ore of a kind jumpscare.

[oblique heart]

ore of a kind sounds like it's 4oak

but it's 5 cards for some reason

iirc

[halcyon cobalt]

it should clean and prevent debuffs and unflip and prevent flipped cards for the rest of the blind including joker cards

[fossil grail]

oh unflipping is a good idea

[tiny marten]

Works on more bosses then

Still only bosses but it’s better at least

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

like lord of the deep dawn said it was very weak as it was

[tiny marten]

If you want to add in a specific effect of Lead, prevent destruction too

[halcyon cobalt]

ooh wait

it should cause all cards to score

since oil floats on water and that kind of thing and the cards float when they score

[spice yacht]

Once again suggesting tin because tin cans/Jupiter being good fortune/flushes often being at risk due to boss blinds

Tin could prevent or reverse any kind of flip, debuff or destroy

[spice yacht]

I feel like you need to chill out just a tiny bit

Anyway I think things mostly only working on bosses is fine
We have several jokers whose only purpose is to interact with bosses, and taking those is a way bigger opportunity cost

If you were to expand the functionality of a debuff or destroy preventing alchemical card, it could potentially let you get the benefits of certain Jokers like trading card or sixth sense for a round without actually destroying the card that you play

And preventing cards from being destroyed by another joker's trigger would have increasingly more cross mod interaction as more jokers have functions that destroy played cards

[spice yacht]

that being said, re: an entire hand cleanse it would be hilarious to just "SHUT UP [LEAF]: OIL BLAST" Verdant Leaf and not sell any Jokers before killing it in one turn

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

oil does seem underpowered but it would be insane on the final bosses

[halcyon cobalt]

if it did this

[spice yacht]

yeah, that's the idea

[halcyon cobalt]

it would literally prevent every final boss from working except for cerulean bell and violet vessel

[spice yacht]

idk about it being the rest of the blind, but that's why i think cloning/extras would help there

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

rest of the blind is probably too op

[spice yacht]

oil/'oil-2' the hypothetical are situational, but situational doesnt mean BAD in this game

[carmine pond]

Cover yourself

[spice yacht]

if you have debuffing/destroying jokers, you know that
if a debuffing/destroying blind is coming up, you know that

[halcyon cobalt]

but i do think it should affect joker cards as well

[spice yacht]

with this mod installed you have not one but two level 1 vouchers that add consumable slots ingame (crystal ball and mortar and pestle), minimum, so hogging a slot is less of a fear

but yeah i think washing off your hand and jokers for a hand would be great

and just
use copies if you need multiple hands to beat the blind even with all your stuff intact

[carmine pond]

Mfw i am making a flush hearts strategy and i get the world and the moon

[spice yacht]

balatro is a game of skill and luck so like, sometimes you will JUST get hit with stuff that is useless at the time

but not useless all the time

and i like that about it

[halcyon cobalt]

not to mention it could get negative

[spice yacht]

mhm

[oblique heart]

Both Luchador and Matador are quite bad Jokers: one is supposed to be held as a last resort (and basically is weaker version of mr. bones at this point) and the other doesn't interact with most bosses for some reason???
Chicot is arguably the weakest out of all Legendaries (I've seen a lot of discussiobs about that).
In any case, these Jokers are a clear example of why Oil will be on weaker side of power level.

Expanding on it's functionality is the only option if you want to keeps it's og idea as is (card protection).

All interactions you've just mentioned is a good thing and an indicator that it will buff Oil and make it more synergistic and fun.

[spice yacht]

I will say, on a similar note to your argument, if Oil in its current state was to be the only card in the 'debuff prevention/removal' design space without changes, I'd be disappointed somewhat myself

but it has room to be either complemented or expanded, both conceptually and, I think, in the design ethos of the mod

[oblique heart]

indeed

totally agree

[spice yacht]

I definitely don't mean to say your points are invalid but I'm periodically taken aback by the way you present or defend them
not most of the time, by any means, only rarely

but I do see the rationale either way

[nova whale]

what if salt was "debuff selected card and gain $ equal to its value"?

[oblique heart]

I've suggested the opposite of terra - increase blind by 20%

+1 tag

[spice yacht]

hmmm
👁️ allow me to put on my non-game design, insane occultist hat
salt in alchemical symbolism: passivity, inertia, foundational, i can see the idea of it giving potential for the future at the expense of present
salt in general symbolism: 'salt the earth' -> render infertile; 'salary' -> money; i see some real cookage happening here

[nova whale]

salt just giving $10 doesn't fit alchemicals either tbh

[oblique heart]

it's sulfur

xd

but yeah, you are not wrong

we've recently got a Gold alc card

as a replacement ig

[nova whale]

oh, right

mb

i mean sulfur also fits debuffing tbh

[spice yacht]

i was going to say, sulfur -> $10 and then gold->don't play -> like, $12 is

a weird combo of overlapping design space

although it does work with retriggers/etc like mime, or gold ticket

[oblique heart]

I think sulfur is getting changed

[spice yacht]

i think sulfur should just be changed

yeah

cause sulfur is like
flame, heat, activity, dynamism

i think it shouldn't just be "hnrghl, jollars", but i dont think it will remain that way lmao

btw who does the art primarily for the cards i forgort

[oblique heart]

Lyman!

the goat

[outer pike]

lyman the literal god amongst us

[spice yacht]

@obtuse rune i just wanted to say
i really like how, while keeping a distinct and consistent overall palette, you manage to make each alchemical card visually unique with how the background reflects the element and function

i think your work here is a great example of the ways in which limitation, not only to a resolution, but also to a palette breeds creativity

thats all

[spiral tendon]

I think it's easy, especially with fan projects like this, for the provision of feedback to feel like an investment of "ownership" of a project in some small way, such that the way a person thinks about or suggests changes to something may be different when they see it in its construction than when it's presented to them as "finished" already. I've observed this myself, and being on both sides of it as the creator and the critic, I know I can sometimes get carried away in pursuing my vision of something even when that thing isn't mine. I think the mod has a lot of effects which have still yet to be tested at scale, and so in its infancy (not unlike the game itself frankly), lots of ideas for what should or shouldn't be changed may get more fervor then is warranted.

At the end of the day, time will tell us all and patience will be the key to learning what feels right or wrong about the mod. And on top of all of that, we still have the wonderful creators here to thank for such an inspired concept, both visually and mechanically, and it will ultimately be up to their judgement what is worth tweaking and what is good, fine, or accepted.

[last snow]

Could there be one that removes debuffs/stamps from 1 random Joker?

[gleaming mural]

too niche, i think

[normal estuary]

.

[fossil grail]

What other mods are you playing with? Can you show me an error log?

[fossil grail]

BTW new Sulfur effect!

[tiny marten]

Finally, downside Alchemicals

[solar delta]

BANGER

[fossil grail]

and also new phosphorus, since the last one was too weak

[oblique heart]

the problem was not in the amount of cards being returned but in which cards are returning, no?

you can only effectively use it if you get all your important cards in the starting hand

otherwise you discard useless cards which start clogging Phosphorous' pool

anyways, that's still better than the previous version

[oblique heart]

Very cool effect

high risk high reward

(unless your build is busted af )

[tiny marten]

Add The Needle to current blind for extra $$$

[oblique heart]

basically yeah

[royal delta]

That's an awesome effect

[royal delta]

I can imagine it. During the December demo, I had had an idea for a Joker that would just move cards back to the deck from the discard pile, and at the time I thought beyond useless it was actively bad

[oblique heart]

yeah, any random discarded cards is very underwhelming

and quite rng as well

[oblique heart]

with/without spikes at the top?

@obtuse rune

[oblique heart]

smol

[verbal quiver]

open in browser

[oblique heart]

sure sure

[verbal quiver]

i draw in ibis paint so i can't really upscale

[obtuse rune]

i think it looks nicer without the spikes (but i like the rounded dithering of the first one

[verbal quiver]

#🎨・fan-art message

[oblique heart]

with without?

yeah, rounded dithering looks neato

[obtuse rune]

brain lag

[oblique heart]

xd

all good

[oblique heart]

try Aseprite!

it's really good for spriting

[tiny marten]

Replace top spikes with more fire

[spiral tendon]

I like this idea a lot, I like the idea of there being some alc cards which, if they're gonna give you positive permanent effects, they give you negative current blind effects. Feels like a clever reversal of the initial premise of the mod while still maintaining its spirit

[undone summit]

I think the spikes at the top looks good

[verbal quiver]

Sadly i'm on Android and it's paid anyways

[oblique heart]

I've mirrored them to make them less janky and chaotic

[undone summit]

Ooooo nice

[spiral tendon]

that's objectively the best one

I think the mirrored dithering was the right call

[oblique heart]

thanks

[halcyon cobalt]

what could its effect be

[oblique heart]

In game view

[halcyon cobalt]

also do you have the link to the doc

[oblique heart]

one sec (not official):

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-3UX_5q1N0Uh6P6QVmzDLU9jr4UWafAi8YSJcBti4PI/edit?usp=drivesdk

[fossil grail]

just for clarifications, the changes in this page are not the changes that will happen in version 1.1

some of them may, but it is not a changelog

[oblique heart]

yes, that's not official

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

it does say "suggestions" in the name

[verbal quiver]

another one #🎨・fan-art message

[halcyon cobalt]

hmm

what could it do

also what about the osmium one

too

[verbal quiver]

Osmium: Played cards return to hand for one hand

Oganeson: Create a random negative perishable spectral card (Disappears after 1 round) and a random alchemical card (exept oganeson)

[halcyon cobalt]

oganeson seems pretty bad but

i like the osmium one

would definitely be better than just having the return cards to hand thing as a seal

so you could just play your best hand twice in a row

[verbal quiver]

Yeah oganeson is pretty hit or miss depending on what it will create

maybe i could rework it

hmm

Now i made it "Decay" into a spectral and an alchemical card

[cyan magnet]

oh yes

old sulphur was definitely a 'use now' consumable

[fossil grail]

I am sad to say that Stone will not be a part of version 1.1 of Codex

we have a different "_stone" that comes though

[oblique heart]

the art was so good tho

sad to hear that

[fossil grail]

don't worry, it will be in the future

[fossil grail]

Lowered the amount of sprites in the mod from 53 files to 8 XD

(no tetxtures were lost, just compiled them into atlases)

[oblique heart]

you've got me in the first part ngl

[oblique ether]

downdate

[obtuse rune]

good news folks

we solved alchemy

[fossil grail]

New joker alert!

[undone summit]

bro looks like he wants to die

looks great lol

[solar delta]

I love this

[oblique ether]

art caught me off guard a bit lol, good work

[oblique heart]

cool stuff

can't wait to grow a few limbs

Btw, will we get a Witcher Joker?

iirc creation process of Witchers involves alchemy

it would be fun reference

[oblique heart]

Radioactive Joker
• X2 Mult and Chips, your other Jokers are perishable.

Note: that means that your current Jokers get Perishable sticker as well as all future Jokers you will get instantly become perishable (as long as you have Radioactive Joker).

Unlocked by beating Orange stake with Alchemic Deck.

[royal delta]

I just had a Joker idea which I felt would fit this mod. I might implement it on a mod of my own, but in any case I wanted to share the idea in case others like it:

x2 Mult if you’ve used a Consumable this round

[oblique heart]

yeah, I suggested a similar change for catalyst Joker

• Gains X1 Mult for each consumable used this blind (starts at X1).

So, you temporarily buff Catalyst by using consumables

[golden sparrow]

Yes but what about second alchemy?

[golden sparrow]

A joker that gives held Alchemical cards 1.5 X mult would be interesting. Observatory at home.

[royal delta]

Another idea I might implement on my own but which would also fit, for a Consumable:

Get a temporary copy of a Joker.

[fossil grail]

Antimony

[royal delta]

I guess it already exists XD

[tepid tinsel]

Antimony with Balatrostuck Cruxite Dowel breaks Codex wide open

[oblique ether]

Excited to try both mods at once, they look like a fun way to break the game

[spiral tendon]

methamphetamine card when?

[oblique heart]

hot choco
mmmm

looks very nice

[spiral tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/chocolate-dessert-lavacake-cake-gif-4954102

[verbal quiver]

I actually used the magic deck back art for this cause i wanted something that looked "liquid"

[oblique heart]

Disciple
• Once per round, after you use your 2 consumable cards, create an Alchemical card.

@fossil grail what do you think?

(sry for ping)

[oblique heart]

(added whit boarder)

[gleaming mural]

huh, reminds me of occultist

but like, better

[carmine pond]

unlock conditions should not be behind stakes or using specific decks.

[oblique heart]

sure, that's not something very necessary

[cyan magnet]

x2 mult and chips is functionally the same as x4 mult

[oblique heart]

yeah, they makes sense

My bad :P

[vague cradle]

is there a .io page for this like fusion jokers?

[verbal quiver]

wrong thread, this is codex arcanum

[fossil grail]

not yet

[halcyon cobalt]

no i'm pretty sure this is the right thread

[vague cradle]

no i know i was just asking if there was a similar style page for this mod like fusion

[vague cradle]

all good just curious!

[fossil grail]

https://gyazo.com/6ba06989fdef11fcc2444e2142f465db.mp4
how many alchemicals are too many alchemicals?

[halcyon cobalt]

cool

oil should unflip cards too

[fossil grail]

oh it does

[halcyon cobalt]

oh

the description makes it seem like it only removes the debuffed effect

[verbal quiver]

a lot

[oblique heart]

do we have a link to this "wiki" page?

or it's in the works for now?

[fossil grail]

soon...

[oblique heart]

cool

[spice yacht]

Ooooh I love these new ones

[fossil grail]

@here
I am so so so happy to announce that Version 1.1 of Codex Arcanum is out!!!
This update bumps up the total of alchemical cards to a whopping 24, while also balancing a few of the early alchemicals.
It also adds a new joker, new tarot, new spectral, and does a lot of changes relating to performance and bugs.

And, there's a new wiki page! You can find it here: https://itayfeder.github.io/Codex-Arcanum/
You can download version 1.1 from here: https://github.com/itayfeder/Codex-Arcanum/releases/tag/Release_1.1

[frank knoll]

hmm there's a problem

[plush heart]

Temporary fix for that, drop it in 1x

[fossil grail]

Wait what

I removed the sprite???

[plush heart]

Yeeeeep, seems so

[agile tulip]

png name

[plush heart]

ca_booster_atlas.png

[fossil grail]

When did I manage to do that??

[agile tulip]

not have ca_

[fossil grail]

yeah no that’s not an issue on my end

Yes it is

https://github.com/itayfeder/Codex-Arcanum/releases/tag/Release1.1.1 Patched it!

[frank knoll]

the sprite was in 1x but not with the right name

[fossil grail]

Yup

[dim mist]

elemental tag seems to have the uncommon tag sprite

at least in collection

[vagrant birch]

I get this error when ı open the game with this mod how can ı solve this problem

[obtuse rune]

did you download the 1.1 version or 1.1.1 version

[vagrant birch]

this

[obtuse rune]

... do you have the file it's mentioning?

it should be in \CodexArcanum\assets\2x

[vagrant birch]

no 💀

I only have mods file, doesnt have assest file

[obtuse rune]

you must have extracted the mod wrong then

you need the assets file

you should be extracting the full CodexArcanum folder in the .zip to your mods folder

[vagrant birch]

thank you for helping ♥️

[obtuse rune]

🫡

all bug reports are welcome

[oblique heart]

Does it eork with 1.0.1e?

[hollow nimbus]

Ok, found out something kind of interesting that might not have been planed- The game crashes (AKA gets an Error) after resolving a hand/blind where I used Glass on four of my cards, then used Uranium to make three of my other cards glass as well

[fossil grail]

interesting. Can you show me the crash report?

[hollow nimbus]

Lemme just do it again so that I can get the screenshot

Pardon the quality of it- Still haven't figured out how to properly screenshot with this computer

[fossil grail]

okay found how to patch it

[hollow nimbus]

What is it, Alchemy person? (Don't know pronouns and didn't want to assume)

[fossil grail]

first, it's a he, though i do not mind anything XD
second, there was a problem with me thinking extra is always a table in cards, when it can be a number

i am currently uploading a patch to fix that

[hollow nimbus]

Ah, ok. I was about to say either Alchemy Man or Alchemy Lady, since those roll off the tongue better, but that works, too. XD

[viral herald]

Alchemy Gremlin

[fossil grail]

https://github.com/itayfeder/Codex-Arcanum/releases/tag/Release_1.1.2

[frank knoll]

i don't know why but i think it's not gonna be the last 1.1.x

[fossil grail]

XD

perhaps

[frank knoll]

downloaded the new patch and will test it later

[hollow nimbus]

Time to test out the Glass-Uranium combo to see if it still breaks or not

It works again! The patch worked!

[oblique heart]

I can use Aqua during pack opening?

[fossil grail]

try to use it

it will return to your hand

[oblique heart]

Ah

i see

First stake, first W with lvl 45 Flush

(just got Alc. Merchant in the next shop)

Description is incorrect

"this run"

should not be there

(or is it a bug?)

[forest quest]

That's how Satellite's text is though

[spark portal]

it lasts between runs?

[oblique heart]

If the descp is correct than it should be +200 by now

I used a ton of Alc cards this run

It's either a bug or a descp error

[forest quest]

Yea it's not retroactive

wait

hold on

It is?

Maybe the test just doesn't update until you use a alchemical card

[oblique heart]

A bug? If you use terra and score gets reduced lower than required, you don't win

[undone summit]

I wonder if that would work if terra gave you a percentage of the blind’s chips rather than lowering the blind by a percentage

Probably not but I’m just throwing it out there in case it helps

[halcyon cobalt]

ehh

not sure if that would work

[tiny marten]

Functionally the same right?

X% less of the chips you need to get

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

but there were some jokers in mika's mod collection that gave chips equal to a certain percentage of the blind and you could very easily go infinite with it on plasma deck

[fossil grail]

oh i still didn't fix that

interesting

i will fix that for the next patch

[verbal quiver]

happened on Plasma deck

[fossil grail]

download the new patch

[lapis patio]

magnet drew my jacks instead of king?

[golden sparrow]

interesting... maybe it considers all face cards as the same rank and will give you whatever is in your deck from J>Q>K or something

hmmmmm

[glacial blaze]

maybe its detecting default chips instead of rank? so KQJ10 would all have +10 default chips and thus be considered the same rank?

[tepid tinsel]

oh yeah it's based on base.original_value

[lapis patio]

that sucks, i look forward to it being patched

was trying to draw my gold king :|

[golden sparrow]

Okay I just used it on an ace and it drew two queens. I don't know what it's doing.

[glacial blaze]

nevermind ace is 11 unless base.original.value still considers aces as +10 since thats what it used to be

[golden sparrow]

haha wait

it grabbed a queen and a nine off of my ace lmao

[glacial blaze]

okay its just drawing two random cards then

[lapis patio]

lmao

[glacial blaze]

might even just be drawing them from the top of the deck normally tbh

[golden sparrow]

Well good thing I'm just bug testing everything

[glacial blaze]

yeah zero days are cool

[golden sparrow]

It's gucci. Things are to be expected.

[glacial blaze]

rule � about programming: there will always be zero days

[golden sparrow]

Found a bug. Used Uranium on my Queen, Blueprint says it's compatible with Chain Reaction and I only received one negative copy.

(I just notice Blueprint, Chain Reaction and Catalyst Joker is like Observatory/Perkeo at home)

Jumbo and Mega packs cost 4

[lapis patio]

i'd suggest changing the 2 alchemicals that the deck starts with, iirc it was gonna be used to showcase new ones but it looks like its still the same 2 in the code

personally i'd find 2 random ones most fun

[golden sparrow]

Or, what if you start with the tag and get a free mega pack?

[lapis patio]

but why

[golden sparrow]

Options are fun. So you don't start each run with the same cards, it could give some seeds a chance for a unique interaction in the first or second shop or something. It gives an aspect to the deck that's not in the base game, a choice before the game technically even starts. It's a different dynamic. There's possibly a handful of some implications that can come from it.

It's something outside of the box

[lapis patio]

fair enough, it does give more choices instead of just resetting more often if they were randomized

[solar delta]

NVM downloaded patch , all good!

[glass patrol]

HYPE

[glossy perch]

when u have an nagetive consumble card,try to sell Catalyst reduce extra slots...

[oblique heart]

A thing about acid I find wierd:
usually when you add cards to your deck, you try to add copies of the same card if possible for potential 5oak/flush five or for different Joker synergies but what's the point of adding let's say 10 Kings to your deck and then thinning it with acid?

[golden sparrow]

Acid isn't meant for decks that are already refined.

Also, Acid doesn't work with Canio or Hologram.

[lapis patio]

:(

[golden sparrow]

GIVE US THE SYNERGIES WE DEMAND THUNK FEDER!!

[oblique heart]

What it's meant for in general?

You can thin your deck by 3 cards at max

if you have no dupes

that makes almost no difference in your odds to find a good hand

[golden sparrow]

Don't get nick picky

[lapis patio]

i don't really understand it either if it doesn't have synergies

[oblique heart]

It would be much more synergistic if it destroyed cards for one blind

that's something at least

but even then very specific

[lapis patio]

if i'm not actually destroying or readding cards then why not just use aero/quicksilver/magnet or oil

[golden sparrow]

it's supposed to.

[oblique heart]

no, it states discards (nvm)

wait

it's says destroys

huh

it didn't work for me

I had glass Joker

but it didn't proc off of acid

[golden sparrow]

Right, it says destroy on the tooltip. In the code Feder used the Dissolve function and not Destroy, or Shattered incase it was a glass card. Like I have mentioned it's supposed to work with Glass Joker, Canio and Hologram and provide some advantage.

[oblique heart]

Oh, sorry, I didn't see

[golden sparrow]

It's a bug or oversight.

[oblique heart]

Let's get back to square zero

What are the use cases for acid?

[golden sparrow]

To destroy cards from the deck to not draw them during the blind after discarding or playing a hand, overall improving deck consistency. Along with the combos from Jokers that care about destroying or adding cards.

[lapis patio]

oh its supposed to? i thought you were saying that was intentional for it to not work

[oblique heart]

You spend 4¢ to improve your deck consistency for -3 cards for just one blind while the only synergies are Canio and Glass Joker (nothing else).

???

[golden sparrow]

When it was originally discussed in the modding-chat I believe most of us wanted it to work with the Jokers.

[oblique heart]

with only 2 Jokers (if we don't count mods)

[lapis patio]

hologram and sorta erosion

[outer pike]

canio

[oblique heart]

Holo?

[lapis patio]

3 xMult jokers are enough for me ngl

[golden sparrow]

You're spending $4 most times for an Alchemical card that doesn't last more than one blind and you're getting twisted there's even some level of synergies with some other Jokers?

What!?

[oblique heart]

Why spend money on alc. cards in general if you put it like that?

Also, why you ppl mention hologram

[golden sparrow]

I mean...

hey

[lapis patio]

depending on how its made it either
a. doesn't actually get rid of the cards in the first place
or
b. destroys them and then adds them back to your deck, making each count as an added card for hologram

so if you destroy 10 and they all upgrade hologram when they come back its insane

[oblique heart]

Have you tested that interaction?

[golden sparrow]

Yes and it doesn't work like it's supposed to.

[lapis patio]

i don't think it currently works that way i'm just saying if its updated to destroy properly i'd want it to do that also

currently it does just suck

[oblique heart]

I see

[golden sparrow]

Understanding

[oblique heart]

So we are left with 3 Jokers: Erosion, Holo and Glass Joker (Canio is a legendary, I won't count it).

Is that enough synergies?

[lapis patio]

i think it is if you just add the tinieat benefit for each card destroyed so you're incentivized to use it

[golden sparrow]

I'm sure other mods can work off it given the design space if there's not going to be another joker in this mod that will.

[oblique heart]

Like cloud 9 that benefits for each copy?

[lapis patio]

reduce blind requirement by 1% for each card destroyed could work for example

[oblique heart]

interesting idea

[lapis patio]

yeah +$1 for each card destroyed could work

still not overly good but it'd be usable without the synergies

[oblique heart]

mb +2?

[lapis patio]

maybe yeah

you do have to get rid of the cards you likely want to play for high value from it

[oblique heart]

cuz u invested in copying them yeah

[golden sparrow]

You know. I think the idea of using the Alchemical cards in specific instances to gain long term or permeant advantage is the coolest way to view cards that give you temp effects

Like Bismuth and Dna. It gives the feeling of alchemy, you're using ingredients to get a powerful reward.

[half gate]

a bit of bleedover is fine - tarot cards go the other way, after all

usually give permanent bonuses, but you can also use them to get out of a tricky blind

alchemical cards giving perma bonuses, but only if you're smart about it, is very thematic

[golden sparrow]

[oblique heart]

death my beloved

[golden sparrow]

Yes.

[half gate]

four? no, five of a kind

[oblique heart]

That's why I want these temporary bonuses be actually good you know

(from alc cards)