Codex Arcanum - Alchemical Cards and abilities

[oblique heart]

Gain +1 Discard/hand literally the same text as vouchers, no?

that's confusing

[carmine pond]

yeah true

i think they should get for this blind but i kinda get why they didnt

if you wanna keep the planet thing,it could be that "current poker hand" (as in,the one youre currently selecting to play" gets upgraded for 3 levels this blind

[oblique heart]

oh yeah, that's a real outlier

[oblique heart]

good idea

it's like that one tag

but temporary

[carmine pond]

yup!

and also a backup plan like "oh damn i didnt get my main hand time to upgrade something shitty for now"

oh while im speaking, i should also comment i ran into a glitch regarding negative alchemic cards - if you have full consumbale slots and try to get a negative alchemy card...it fails.like the pack closes,but you dont get the consumable

[oblique heart]

I also would like to suggest a change to Arsenic/an effect for new card potentially?
• Set the number of your hands and discards to the higher of the two.

but it's kinda busted I think

I just feel like Arsenic is weaker than Ignis and Aqua

in terms of raw value

mb I'm overthinking it

Oh and one last thing:
• It would be nice if Bottled Buffoon would count used discards as well (to synergize with both Ignis and Aqua).

[carmine pond]

ooo that would be nice and make it much better too

why does it look like it has big meaty lips

[oblique heart]

ahahaha

i knew i wasn't the only one

looks like Homer Simpson's mouth

[carmine pond]

also ive come to a stunning realization

studious joker is strictly better jimbo

[oblique heart]

it is :/

[lapis patio]

what is the price?

[oblique heart]

wiki doesn't state that iirc

[fossil grail]

interesting... i like that idea

i like your Salt and Chain Reaction changes

[sudden kiln]

The Weaver too! sources online say it means "recognition of destiny/required life lessons" but also, ur weaving, creation go crazy

[fossil grail]

Ooh like these names

[stiff sapphire]

was salt already planned to be nerfed after the tag buffs?

[oblique heart]

Actually, it would be even better if it counted EVERY CARD DRAWN so it could synergize with not only Ignis and Terra but also with Quicksilver and Aero

That would require increasing the number of cards drawn to generate an alc. card ofc

~25 or so

[stiff sapphire]

that's a sick effect

and really good too honestly if its a low level hand

just select it upgrade it and go crazy

[fossil grail]

another change!
alchemical cards have a small pop-up that says you can only use it mid-blind!

[molten salmon]

do i have to download the assets folder to download the mod?

[fossil grail]

yes, the assets folder contains all of the art for the mod

[molten salmon]

so i have to download both assets and CodexArcanum.lua right?

[fossil grail]

yes

[stiff sapphire]

will the thing ever be fixed where taking an alchemical card from a booster pack while your consumables are full eats it

[lapis patio]

does that matter? i think it could probably be changed to make it disable the use button in packs if slots are full but then you'd just have to skip anyway

[stiff sapphire]

yeah that's what i was thinking

it'd mostly be good because people who are new to the mod are probably used to not having to worry about consumable slots when opening boosters

[lapis patio]

true

[oblique heart]

that's a very clever way to do this

Tho, does it imply that effects last for the current blind only?

[lapis patio]

not really

[stiff sapphire]

i mean some effects don't technically last for the current blind like the levels, tags, money, etc

[oblique heart]

but that's kinda the problem, no? These effects supposed to be temporary

[fossil grail]

the effects are supposed to be "consumable" one time bonuses

[oblique heart]

you just described tarots and planets (consumable one time bonuses)

[fossil grail]

wait yeah XD

[oblique heart]

The fact that you can use them only during a blind is ok? But that doesn't make them fundamentally different from already existing consumables

[lapis patio]

not really? enhancements, hand levels and deck manipulation are all permanent bonuses

[oblique heart]

permanent yes, the consumable card itself is one time use

That's the difference I was expecting Alc. cards to have - their effects are not permanent.

unlike tarots and planets

in exchange their effects more powerful short term

Currently for example sulfur is straight up just gain +10$ upon use. Why it has to be restricted for combat only? Why its effect doesn't affect combat in literally any way?

[oblique heart]

now it makes sense that it can be used during blind only but it's still a permanent bonus, right?

[fossil grail]

yes

[oblique heart]

then I don't understand what is the actual philosophy for these cards is

[half gate]

Tarot cards have no overarching theme whatsoever

There are enchancements, transformation, removal, and two money makers

Not to mention Emperor, High Priestess, and particularly Fool

[spiral tendon]

I think it's true there's a bit of breadth to the effects Tarots have, probably because they're kind of the generic "consumable card" aside from planets and spectrals, where their effect is not massive, but generally fine. Planets do a very specific thing, and spectrals are like more extreme tarots with notable downsides.

Spectrals may be a better point of comparison in terms of "themed consumables", as the weaker ones have little to no downside, or the downside is built in like the inability to select which joker/suit/cards will be effected, but you still get to make the call

As such, I think when possible, Alc cards should attempt to maintain consistency to the theme of "temporary, explosive results", so as I've seen suggested before for example, making Sulfur do something like convert cards to gold for 1 blind so it still has the long term effect of producing wealth, but is tied in thematically by making it do something that only makes sense to do during a blind

Salt is an exception to this trend, but I think it has a justification, which is to play with the Tag mechanic in a way that doesn't require skipping blinds, and if you think about it a bit more abstractly, building in the tradeoff of boosting the blind requirement kind of does tie in thematically, since it requires you to use it during a blind because you couldn't normally get a tag without skipping a blind otherwise

Idk about anyone else but I kinda feel like both Terra and Salt should have their numbers boosted, since a 10% change of blind requirement doesn't feel that impactful in either direction. I think it could reasonably be as much as +-50%, considering that's roughly the difference between the small and big blinds, so using Salt is essentially saying "my build is strong enough I could skip a blind for a tag, but I want full blind value so I'll pay the price another way", and Terra actually feels like it can accomplish the opposite by giving you the moment to catch your breath and recoup your build in the next shop when the round will be probably more or less the same score requirement

Maybe 50 is a bit extreme considering 1) it's a random tag not one you can see and choose to skip for or not, and 2) you might want to use more than one Salt card per round

but I think even two 10%s is negligible most of the time

maybe 20% is good

[last snow]

@fossil grail I had an idea for Sulfur to make it more combat based, and not just straight moo-lah, kinda like the nerf suggested for Salt.

Sulfur: Convert ALL of your currently earned Chips into Money, gaining 1$ for every (100*blind) Chips you have. Leftover Chips are discarded. Turns to (100^blind) once you go into Endless.

[oblique heart]

I meant like not what effects are but what they have in common

I thought alc. cards are supposed to provide combat only temporary benefits (affecting combat in one way or another as well)

[oblique heart]

that's what I'm saying!

[oblique heart]

I also agree with that

10% doesn't feel influencial enough

buffing it would break much balance since consecutive uses of Terra doesn't detract from the max required score but from the current one instead

[spiral tendon]

yeah hence returns diminish

Which is weirdly also true of Salt because you'd be getting "less tag per score increase" if that makes sense

[oblique heart]

quite complicated

99,9% effects in Balatro are simple and straight forward

[spiral tendon]

I do feel there is an important level of simplicity to maintain at the first-principles layer yeah

the game gets complicated enough on its own just by mixing up all the moving parts together

each part should be simple in isolation

[oblique heart]

that's what makes it fun!

simple effects create uniqe and complex situations

[spiral tendon]

https://tenor.com/view/glider-gun-game-of-life-conway-conway-game-of-life-gif-16861451

[spice yacht]

This threw me off severely at first

Because the cards do this weird thing where you use them just to spawn them in your consumable slot

Instead of just pulling them into your consumables

Even though other mods have shown that it's entirely possible to direct a card from a booster pack into the consumable slots, without proccing it as a use, and presumably stopping you if you're full on slots

Whereas the current implementation allows you to just outright make a mistake and waste a card or pack entirely

Plus I think the use implementation in booster packs and the burn animation contributes to the feeling that you should be able to use these outside of blinds which you aren't

[spiral tendon]

Yeah I think overall it was an interesting design choice to try, and I can appreciate the hacky cleverness associated with it, but it does ultimately feel like a little less clear and polished design for it in the end

[lapis patio]

which mod does this?

[spiral tendon]

the one in this video (this mod, Codex Arcanum)

[lapis patio]

...

[spiral tendon]

lmao im dumb

completely ignore me

[lapis patio]

lmao

[oblique heart]

all good

[lapis patio]

it will probably be changed soonish a cool person (autumnmood) is trying to figure out how to do that moving consumable into slots thing properly so i'd be surprised if feder just ignored that for no reason

[spice yacht]

Betmma vouchers has reserve area

It even adds an alternative button to do so

And it works really naturally

[fossil grail]

I have been lurking around here for the entire discussion, it really has been interesting

[last snow]

Fair enough, I just wanted to balance it out to be more reflective of how the Alchemical cards work.

[oblique heart]

I hope it's somewhat helpful

[golden sparrow]

Found a minor bug. Brainstorm didn't copy the effect of Chain-Reaction when I had used Salt.

[tiny marten]

Still made salt, just not in game

[last snow]

Honestly want to see this as a Joker.

[radiant compass]

gotta love how the image name is just "Despair"

with the capital D

[golden sparrow]

I wonder how much of a possibility it is to be able to view your discards and be able to select which ones are returned to the deck.

For the context of phosphorus

[radiant compass]

he's done it again fellas

[solar saddle]

can't wait till that's me🥹

[outer pike]

can wait til thats me

[lapis patio]

lmao surely ritual sacrifice will get on a thumbnail

[lapis patio]

"This Mod Adds a Squirrel Card?"

[outer pike]

lmaooo

[solar saddle]

don't tell anyone but i also got a similar idea for the next theme🤫

[lapis patio]

huh

[solar saddle]

similar to codex

[solar saddle]

to clarify it will still be unique, not much to do with alchemy. But still similar to this mod, don't tell anyone🤫

[golden sparrow]

Souls should have a chance to be found in Alchemy packs

[dim mist]

wasnt there plans for there to be its own thing like that for alchemy

[lapis patio]

yeah

[halcyon cobalt]

is that going to be what the philosophers stone is

[dim mist]

idk

[glacial blaze]

aether/quintessence?

[oblique heart]

iirc there's no Jokers in Balatro that have 2 different separate effects

that's why catalyst is quite busted

[fossil grail]

someone asked for a tarot?

[ember crag]

Ooooooo!!!

[crude tusk]

awesome!

One of the best mods just keeps getting better

[oblique heart]

[last snow]

YEAAHHH.

[fossil grail]

Now, what other alchemical cards should we add…

[lapis patio]

the spectral one is in high demand methinks

[fossil grail]

Which one?

[lapis patio]

😨 what do you mean which one? the spoiler one that i've commented on like 3 times

[fossil grail]

Ohhhh yeah

Other than that one

[obtuse rune]

huh

whar

[fossil grail]

?

[obtuse rune]

the spectral one?

[lapis patio]

is the one card not a spectral?

(purposefully being vague because i find it funny)

[oblique heart]

Black Sulfur aka Brimstone (Spectral card)
• Add Negative edition to all cards in your consumable slots.

[fossil grail]

Interesting. We might use brimstone for something else, but I like that

[fossil grail]

What list of symbols are you using?

[oblique heart]

You know what? For a spectral card that seems pretty weak

Mb something like:

• +1 Consumable slot. -1 Hand size.

[fossil grail]

When you say a “spectral card” you mean something like “soul” or “black hole”?

[oblique heart]

Ectoplasm, Cryptid

Familiar, Emmolate

[ember crag]

Trading consumable slot for hand size seems weird where there are multiple vouchers that give you consumable slots for just money imo

[oblique heart]

???

you gain consumable slot

and losing hand size

[ember crag]

Yeah

That’s what I’m saying?

[formal swift]

Yeah that's weak

[oblique heart]

Whatever downside feels fair

[ember crag]

You’re trading a hand size for to get a consumable slot instead of the vouchers that just give you a consumable slot instead

[oblique heart]

I'm here for +1 consumable slot

It could be
+1 con. slot
-1 discard/hand

anything really

[formal swift]

With this mod there are three (i think, haven't checked ) vouchers that give consumable slots, and ngl i don't think we need more things that reduce hand size without any way of increasing it

[oblique heart]

Only mortar voucher gives +1 slot

[formal swift]

Oh, what does the second one do?

[oblique heart]

the other one is Catalyst

Joker

+2 consumable slots, gives x mult for each consumable you are holding

(quite busted if you ask me)

[formal swift]

Wow that's- yeah

2 con slots is powerful enough ngl

[oblique heart]

I agree

[tiny marten]

But you have to keep them occupied, and not using the consumables is the trade off ig

[oblique heart]

If you have card generating build, you take catalyst

Blue seals, tarot gens

whichever

[tiny marten]

I suppose

[oblique heart]

Like imagine 3-4 planet cards for your specific poker hand (in 1.0.1c patch) at the end of each blind

Or purple seal build

discard 4 purple seal cards - 4 free tarots

For only 1 discard!

also don't forget about new 8 ball

[oblique heart]

Back to the topic, how about trading hands/discards for +1 consumable slot?

[tiny marten]

We ball

[ember crag]

That could be reasonable

Maybe

Again, it’s a hard thing to balance due to the existence of things like the Crystal Ball (and the Mortar and Pestle that this mod itself adds)

[outer pike]

MORECONSUMABLES SPOTTED

[ember crag]

I’d almost argue losing a Hand might be equivalent to gaining two consumable slots

because hands are pretty valuable

[fossil grail]

Actually, thank you for letting me know about what hooks steamodded has!

[outer pike]

what lol

[fossil grail]

I have more consumables loaded all of the time

So I checked out how you added logic to your tarots

And saw that there are hooks

So I used them

[outer pike]

oooo

[oblique heart]

Discards on the other hand are objectively less valuable

so here we could have an equivalent exchange

+1 cons slot for -1 discard

[last snow]

WE WINNIN OUR ISAAC RUN WITH THIS ONE, BOIS!!1! 🗣️ 🔥

[oblique heart]

Powder
• Retrigger all played cards in the next hand of the round.
or
• Add Red Seal to all cards held in hand for one blind.

I'd personally would make it like «give all cards held in hand Red Seal for this blind only» (for more synergies) but I'm afraid that might cause technical difficulties

@fossil grail what can you say about that? Doable?

[fossil grail]

We are saving that idea for another card…

[oblique heart]

ok then

You can also copy paste this effect but now with Blue Seal

with other seals such «hand-wide» effect would be broken imo

Red and Blue Seals are the most reasonable ones

[oblique heart]

For this effect I would suggest using Silver since it represents Moon in Alchemy iirc (Gold - Sun). Moon kinda looks blue-ish
@fossil grail

Sorry for the ping (if that bothers you)

[oblique heart]

perhaps Purple Seal wouldn't be that broken since it requires you to spend discards to get value, multiple discards actually since you are limited to 2 consumable slots after all

In that case i can suggest:

Wax
• Add Purple Seal to all cards held in hand for one blind.

(reference to Medium spectral card which has candle on its art which also adds purple seal to a card as its effect)

[glacial blaze]

are the main metals meant to be added later or something?

[oblique heart]

they kinda overlap with planets, no?

[golden sparrow]

One word. Chrysopoeia.

[oblique heart]

but that's not an element

it's a process

[golden sparrow]

you right

[spice yacht]

well, yes and no

planets are just for hands and those don't really reflect the metals/alchemy, and i believe an interest has been expressed in adding the metals

and i can think of several associations for them that deal with alchemy/the occult
like Jupiter -> Tin -> preserving/protecting cards that would be destroyed/debuffed, which also serves the 'good fortune' aspect of jupiter

[oblique heart]

In that case Sulfur should give its money-related effect to «Gold» alc. card

[outer pike]

or þe planetary metals are hand-specific megabuffs

[oblique heart]

not sure wdym

[outer pike]

planet metals buff planet's hand

[glacial blaze]

that would imply that there are planet metals for each of the planets, but the main 7 only cover mercury (quicksilver), venus (copper), mars (iron), jupiter (tin), and saturn (lead), the sun (gold, could technically count as black hole), and the moon (silver, could technically count as earth)
that would leave uranus, neptune, pluto, planet x, ceres, and eris (however it would definitely be possible to align other alchemy metals with these hands, just not cleanly)

[obtuse rune]

i will simply make my own alchemical symbol for the other 2

[glacial blaze]

you could hypothetically do that

[vague sandal]

if i may add my own two cents

[obtuse rune]

im 2 cents richer

[vague sandal]

The planets and dwarf planets (barring planet x) already technically have symbols assigned to them

Uranus uses ⛢, Neptune uses ♆

Pluto has ♇ if its an astronomical symbol and an astrological symbol which apparently is not supported by the font but is

Ceres has ⚳

and eres has these two

[glacial blaze]

i was going to suggest something but i just realized that planet x should instead have no symbol and no element but still have a card

[vague sandal]

ehhh

you could make it quasicrystal or something

[outer pike]

if planet x's symbol isnt just an x i will riot

[vague sandal]

uranium, neptunium, and plutonium feel like obvious choices to link to those planets

[outer pike]

þose work well yeah i þink

[vague sandal]

nice thorns

potassium could potentially be for ceres since it's a very important element in agriculture and ceres was the goddess of agriculture

[half gate]

Iron for Mars?

[vague sandal]

(though i suppose it would be nicer to call it kalium, maybe?)

[half gate]

oh ye

[oblique heart]

[vague sandal]

that link has already been made yea

[oblique heart]

same

[vague sandal]

yeah im struggling with that one a little

[viral herald]

plastic

[half gate]

I thought that was Clyde?

[glacial blaze]

antimony feels important but im not entirely sure why

[vague sandal]

hmmm

[glacial blaze]

technetium also feels important and im entirely sure why but it might not be the best option

both of those could hypothetically be planet x

technetium because its the first(?) synthetic element and antimony because(?) its weird

[outer pike]

þe obvious answer is unobtainium for planet x

[glacial blaze]

that too

[vague sandal]

oooooh good point

yeahhh im all out of ideas

are there plans for the four stages of the magnum opus?

(nigredo, albedo, citrinitas, rubedo)

[glacial blaze]

hypothetically could be 4 vouchers in a sequence

if that is impossible then they could be merged 2 per voucher 2 vouchers

[vague sandal]

plumbago(graphite) could possibly be ceres? since they're both dark and stuff

idk got nothing lmao

[oblique heart]

@fossil grail Here's a full list of my suggestions with better formatting: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-3UX_5q1N0Uh6P6QVmzDLU9jr4UWafAi8YSJcBti4PI/edit?usp=drivesdk

[outer pike]

technically vouchers only need to be in pairs for visual ui reasons

[oblique heart]

Planet X element is the element of surprise

smh

[oblique heart]

Also I'm still confused how this would function

Can you give an example

?

[glacial blaze]

lead is saturns metal
if you use lead, then straights would be buffed for that blind since saturn buffs straights

[oblique heart]

Isn't my suggestion for cobalt just simply better? No need in 10+ new cards (with pretty much similar effect), just one

Cobalt
• Upgrade selected poker hand by 3 levels for one blind.

Selected means the phase when you pick cards from your hand to build a poker combination

[outer pike]

þe specific ones could be stronger or function fundamentally differently in some way

maybe doubling its stats directly instead of increasing level

[oblique heart]

Stronger sure but fundamentally different? How exactly?

Isn't that a bit boring?

just straight up increasing the numbers of the score

[oblique heart]

especially on 10+ different cards

even if done in somewhat unique ways

however, I can't imagine in how many unique ways you can put this number increasing

[glacial blaze]

"all hands count as <the hand>"?

for the blind

[oblique heart]

Set the level of all poker hands to the level of your highest poker hand for one blind

[oblique heart]

that description is quite vague, no?

[glacial blaze]

in what way?

[oblique heart]

«count as» might mean that respective jokers would synergize with everything you play

[glacial blaze]

yes

[oblique heart]

oh, if that's the intention then sure

[glacial blaze]

just having it match score is too weak, especially if you get metals like plutonium or quicksilver

[oblique heart]

which element would have this effect?

[nova whale]

the planetary ones?

[glacial blaze]

all of them if its implemented that way? if its just one then straight flush since people regularly claim that its "the hardest" to obtain

[oblique heart]

I see

that's a way better effect than just +mult/chips for a certain hand for one blind

imo

@glacial blaze kinda cooked with this one ngl

[glacial blaze]

thanks

[oblique heart]

also, imagine getting planet x alc. card in early game

that's some crazy score gen

[glacial blaze]

the secret metals would require their secret planets to have been found first in order to be available

[oblique heart]

oh yeah, makes sense

my bad

[glacial blaze]

no youre absolutely right straight flush is great early

perkeo seance neptunium would be awesome to get early and it is definitely possible

granted perkeos involved but still

[tiny marten]

T1: Transmutation

T2: Magnum Opus

[outer pike]

and þen plutonium is þat one img of patrick wiþ a board nailed to his head

[oblique heart]

what are those

I'm not familiar with your game

[vague sandal]

its
literally right under the message

[oblique heart]

I mean what is the mechanic/effect

[vague sandal]

they're the four theorized stages that a material or something would take until they reach the magnus opus

[vague sandal]

i dont know??? thats why i asked

[glacial blaze]

maybe like blank but 4 vouchers instead of 2?

and the last one is stronger

[vague sandal]

that sounds
Bad

[glacial blaze]

then it isnt that

[vague sandal]

but fine if you had to make me make something up right now

[oblique heart]

Mb a Joker? Like after 4 blinds, destroy this and gain X (something)

[vague sandal]

yeah maybe like that then i guess

a joker that slowly grows or something

[glacial blaze]

second idea: four vouchers in a sequence, they make alchemical cards better/more common/whatever, and they build on each other in some way

[oblique heart]

that'll probably require some serious coding

[glacial blaze]

third idea: the first idea but instead of vouchers its jokers (so basically just exodia for alchemical cards)

[oblique heart]

Play 4 different elements to get X

[glacial blaze]

probably like "alchemical cards and packs can appear anywhere in the shop" or something

if exodia is too weak then they could be like "alchemical cards can appear in other booster packs" "alchemical cards can appear in the single consumable slots of the shop because i have never seen that so im assuming its not there" etc

[tiny marten]

Blackening, whitening, yellowing, and then upon completion of reddening you make the Magnum Opus ye

[glacial blaze]

or, alternatively, each one corresponds to a single suit, but instead of mult and stuff its alchemical card related

[vague sandal]

Nigredo - Common
+30 Chips. After 10 cards are destroyed, becomes Albedo

Albedo - Uncommon
+20 Mult. After 5 cards are added to your deck, becomes Citrinitas

Citrinitas - Uncommon
2 xMult. After using 30 consumable cards, becomes Rubedo

Rubedo - Rare
Each scoring card provides 1.25 xMult. After 5 rounds, becomes Magnum Opus

Magnum Opus - Legendary
Retriggers all scoring cards. Each scoring card provides 1.25 xMult.

idk

numbers could use some work but maybe

[glacial blaze]

hmm

that seems interesting

[vague sandal]

Nigredo is about destroying cards cause that's what nigredo is. decomposition, cleansing

Albedo is adding cards because that's like, bringing light and new ideas into the thing

[oblique heart]

it would be better if those were 5 separate jokers which all could evolve into magnum one (except legendary one)

[vague sandal]

eh

not really i feel

the point of the stages is that you have to go through them in order

[oblique heart]

putting all of this into one joker is a bad decision since most jokers have one lined simple effects

[vague sandal]

well they are all still one lined simple effects

[oblique heart]

they're 5 effects in one

[vague sandal]

no,,,??

citrinitas only has the 2 xmult and the consumable cards thing

[oblique heart]

I mean all of that is coming from one card

it is complex

[vague sandal]

well i guess thats Fair

but its not very complex looking at the beginning

like you look at the Nigredo and say
"ooh, what's it gonna be when it becomes albedo?"

[glacial blaze]

i guess cavendish is also like this? technically

[oblique heart]

this is not hearthstone brother

[vague sandal]

well Yeah

i Guess

[oblique heart]

sure but compare gros michel to this monstrosity

[outer pike]

i will make þis into yugioh i stg

[oblique heart]

and banana is one among 150

[outer pike]

2*

[vague sandal]

monstrosity????

[outer pike]

banana also doesn't tell you everything

which i þink is þe implication here too

[glacial blaze]

run info also doesnt tell you everything

[vague sandal]

i feel like its a lot better than
you Know
making 4 vouchers in sequence of each other, which is a lot less mechanically interesting

[oblique heart]

no offense, I meant it's just huuuge

[glacial blaze]

i 100% agree

[vague sandal]

you Dont know that its huge is the thing

[vague sandal]

or splitting the four processes into 4 different things which is against what it actually is

[outer pike]

its actually quite small
have you seen þe cosmic jokers?

[oblique heart]

also I should say that bananas have the most basic effects unlike the stages of the Magnum

[vague sandal]

the

Stages

what so like +20 mult and also counting how many cards you add is complex???

[outer pike]

im gonna stage a magnum watch þis

[vague sandal]

you dont compound the effects they're just changed into the next one 😭

[glacial blaze]

also i will mention that it could result in the yorick problem

but only if the requirement numbers are too big

[vague sandal]

oh fair point

hmmm

[glacial blaze]

like 10 cards destroyed seems a little too difficult to me

[vague sandal]

maybe 5 cards, then?

[glacial blaze]

6 is the number that my instincts are telling me

[vague sandal]

fair

[glacial blaze]

immolate is 5 so thats probably why

[vague sandal]

actually im gonna see if theres any relations between the stages and numbers

[oblique heart]

guys hold on

[glacial blaze]

i dont think there are other than stage 1 stage 2 but i could be wrong

[oblique heart]

let me spit smth

[oblique heart]

what if each stage would give this joker a new edition from foil to negative?

instead of all these wacky effects

[vague sandal]

oooh
ehh

[glacial blaze]

could be interesting i guess?

[vague sandal]

no, i dont think that would really work

[glacial blaze]

yeah

[vague sandal]

and also djshd waCKY??
its

[oblique heart]

[glacial blaze]

like if you got wheel on it then what

[vague sandal]

the only thing thats super weird is like
rubedo and magnum opus i guess

[glacial blaze]

either it stays like that until it "upgrades" or it upgrades automatically

[oblique heart]

that doesn't matter, the edition will change accordingly to the stage

replacing it

[vague sandal]

that would also make the upgrading or whatever a lot less Worth it i feel

like

[oblique heart]

ummm no? Especially if this "upgrading" will not be the only effect this joker has

[vague sandal]

what

????

[oblique heart]

it could have a unique effect + edition staging side effect

[vague sandal]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

so

like

what i just suggested???

[oblique heart]

sry my cat is biting

i can't properly type

[vague sandal]

you Are

huH?

in fact i feel like this is an inherently More complicated idea

so the card upgrades, gains a unique effect, and also changes editions

instead of just

[oblique heart]

I suggested using existing mechanics (editions), you suggested brand new effects for each stage

[vague sandal]

having a basic enough effect and then changing after a certain condition

[vague sandal]

+30 chips is a brand new effect??!?!?!

or +20 mult????

[oblique heart]

alright listen

let me type it out

[vague sandal]

scoring cards give x1.25 mult is like just a different version of bloodstone

and magnum opus is that + sock and buskin for every card

okay sure go ahead

[oblique heart]

Jonkler
x2 Mult. After doing X, add Foil to this Joker (next edition: Holographic).

[vague sandal]

thats

it?

i mean i guess that works

[oblique heart]

doing X always stays the same

not changing

[oblique heart]

yes

[vague sandal]

but its disingenuous to the concept of the 4 stages

[oblique heart]

How so?

[vague sandal]

like the stages arent just variants of each other, they're entirely different things and parts of a process to reach something higher

this joker changes but it remains the same at its core, is what id say

i think we just have different visions for what we want sdjhsd

[oblique heart]

Wrong! It's always x2 mult effect that gains different side effects (different variants of the og effect)

technically

[vague sandal]

i mean
Yeah

and thats the point im trying to make????

hold on okay lemme try and

recuperate our statements here

[oblique heart]

the thing that changes is the material joker made of

now does that make sense to you?

[vague sandal]

yes yes I get it

but Im also saying

thats not the Point

gimme one sec

[oblique heart]

Listen, I don't want to be a nerd and hate fun, complicated effects but Balatro isn't about these super complex effects

that's all I'm saying

[vague sandal]

thats Fair

but i dont think this is a very complex effect

[nova whale]

what's the effect?

[vague sandal]

.

[vague sandal]

I think that the Joker and its effects should change because the 4 stages arent about changing materials but instead transforming itself to something much higher, each step is an entirely different process, which makes the pinnacle of it even harder

so this is a great joker idea

but

[nova whale]

yeah that's not that complex

[vague sandal]

it is not the same as the 4 stages

[nova whale]

kinda lke alpha / beta / omega from sts

[oblique heart]

it's complex compared to what we have in the game

that's all

[nova whale]

it fits with the alchemical theme nicely though

can you get the non-base form in shop?

[vague sandal]

nope

[oblique heart]

sure thing

[vague sandal]

if you look at it as a whole then I suppose so, yeah

im open for changes but like the ones you want are taking away from the core concept and point of the stages

[glacial blaze]

• 5 jokers
• condition to upgrade changes depending on process
• effect also changes
• maybe the effects could be related but not equal?

[vague sandal]

oh yeah and another is that
its complex because it is a whole
and you arent supposed to look at it as a whole because that's not what it is

[vague sandal]

yeahh pretty much

[glacial blaze]

okay what if

its an effect that relates to seals, but the seal changes and there are 5 seals now

the fifth one relates to alchemical cards

[vague sandal]

oh?

maybe

actually yeah maybe that can work

[glacial blaze]

and the color of the first four seals is close to the color of the material

could also apply to the magnum opus but idk if its actually specified what color it is

[vague sandal]

maybeeee

[glacial blaze]

probably rainbow though

just a hunch

[vague sandal]

one sec

Nigredo seal - discard to become albedo
Albedo seal - play to become citrinitas
Citrinitas seal - keep in hand to become rubedo
Rubedo seal - destroy to create joker, maybe?

[glacial blaze]

9 seals?

[vague sandal]

four seals-

[glacial blaze]

no 9 seals is great

[vague sandal]

Oh

wait huh

explain-

[glacial blaze]

theyre seals

they have the same problem as tags and adding 5 more seals helps that a lot

[vague sandal]

ohhhhh like 9 seals overall

[glacial blaze]

ok ok what if

theres just the magnum opus joker and standard packs can now have nigredo seal cards

[vague sandal]

ooooh

[glacial blaze]

potentially also a nigredo spectral

[vague sandal]

that can work yeah

[glacial blaze]

also illusion

would "alchemical cards and packs can appear anywhere in the shop" now be a reasonable effect for the joker or is that too strong now?

[vague sandal]

hm

that Feels
Weak, actually

[glacial blaze]

really?

[vague sandal]

then again i also dont really know the impact of that

[glacial blaze]

that feels extremely good to me

[vague sandal]

despite interacting with the modding channels and making mods i, personally, do not mod the game

[glacial blaze]

based

shouldnt be too hard to implement though

could be tested

actually i could probably test it myself

[vague sandal]

radical

[oblique heart]

that's what happens when you create complicated effects

[glacial blaze]

its not complicated

[vague sandal]

????

i

dont see how that

has to do with anything anyways

or like the current discussion

[glacial blaze]

its slightly more complex than omen globe and slightly less complex than showman

[vague sandal]

being complicated has nothing to do with game balance

[oblique heart]

the more complex something is - the harder it is to track an outcome

[oblique heart]

now that's a hot take

[vague sandal]

no it
isnt

[outer pike]

þis chat is unusable, þ takeover

[vague sandal]

im,

Okay

even if that Is true

that has nothing to do with this?

[oblique heart]

9 seals huh

fr

[vague sandal]

its

yeah 4 seal stages when you exclude the base game

[glacial blaze]

whats the probability of omen globe?

i need a probability to make the test work properly

[oblique heart]

ok, ppl, you do you
I've suggested my variant, you suggested yours, everyone is happy

I'm not gonna interfere anymore

[vague sandal]

again lord of the deep dawn i feel like you're focused on the fact that there are several individual things that start from one thing to the next
and this seal stuff is literally the most simplified i feel like it could get while still maintaining the original concept and being interesting

[glacial blaze]

actually couldnt i just use 50%

yeah ill do that

[vague sandal]

good /lh

[formal swift]

Making every hand count as the same would be mechanically more interesting imo

[oblique heart]

yeah, that's what I'm saying

[formal swift]

It isn't immediately op either, like, imagine you use it against the eye

(no repeat hands)

[half gate]

@oblique heart The thing to avoid is not complexity, but rather frontloaded complexity. If a card has fifteen lines of text all at once, the average player is going to take one look at it and - quite rightly - walk away. The proposed Magnum Opus joker is complex, yes, but there's an important difference: that complexity is shown to the player in bite-sized chunks, which can each be digested and understood before the next part is revealed.

[fossil grail]

I will look at it when I return home. Interesting

[last snow]

Can you send some screenshots, those statements are EXTREMELY vague.

[untold depot]

Alchemical Card idea: Disable the effects of the boss blind for the next hand you play.

[kindred zodiac]

good idea

[untold depot]

Maybe also make it raise the required blind chips to balance it if its too busted

[kindred zodiac]

one hand isn't bad

[untold depot]

Like another mentioned idea here

[fossil grail]

Lovely

I actually really like this idea

[mystic bronze]

i had a few on theme ideas if anything strikes your interest

#1192276491120152646 message

and some outside the box effects if youre feeling wacky

#1192276491120152646 message

[lapis patio]

do you have the assets folder inside your codex arcanum folder?

👍

then unzip it in your mods folder

[oblique heart]

Wouldn't that card be useless outside of Boss Blind?

[untold depot]

Does that even matter?

[oblique heart]

Yes???

Since all other alc cards are useful on any blind

Alc. cards are already limited to combat only + temporary effects (mostly)

[untold depot]

It is not like this is the only alchemical card that does not have a direct benefit against current blind. The one that adds money, for example, does not directly help you defeat the blind.

[oblique heart]

Those are gonna be changed soon

We already discussed Sulfur

and Cobalt

you can scroll up

[untold depot]

Wasn't your idea to rework Sulfur was to make every card have gold enchantment temporarily or did you make another suggestion?

[oblique heart]

yes

I tried to preserve the og idea of generating money

[untold depot]

That still does not directly benefit you against the blind. Moreover, that would still make Sulfur less of a temporary benefit and more of a long term benefit, even if it is only a temporary effect.

I liked that idea very much btw

[oblique heart]

Since the og idea was to generate money, then there's no way that gonna help in beating the blind, however, this effect now makes sense to be used in combat only and it's temporary

I did what I could

[spice yacht]

Sulfur should make the next hand or cards trigger the beneficial effects of your Jokers and disable the detrimental effects of the blind
Like, make a hand or card count as what would be valuable even if it's not

[untold depot]

There is only so many effects/alchemical cards you can add if the gold standard is that they have to directly help defeating blinds. The gold standard should be that they have to be only usable while playing against a blind and have a temporary effect. (IMO)

[oblique heart]

Basically yes

That's their limitation

[spice yacht]

Sulfur represents the active principle in alchemy as opposed to the passive in salt

So I like the idea personally of sulfur acting as a catalyst for other conditionals

[untold depot]

I will not give opinions on the theming

[oblique heart]

I mean, could work, @untold depot 's idea can be used here

[spice yacht]

I will

I like the anti boss blind concept

[oblique heart]

Honestly? You can slap that effect on Terra

[spice yacht]

Especially since if it benefits you for exactly one hand, seizing that perfect moment to your benefit is very appropriate thematically

[oblique heart]

Wouldn't really hurt

[spice yacht]

Eh I dunno
I think Terra should remain something that's universally useful

Just because the classical elements are so ubiquitous

I'm not exactly sure what to replace its current effect with but still

[oblique heart]

I mean blind reduction + boss disable

blind reduction for any blind

[spice yacht]

mm

[oblique heart]

just a neat side effect

it's pretty negligible

I'll add this to my doc if you don't mind

[oblique heart]

^

[willow dove]

I like this I always found Spectrals to be a hit or miss sometimes

Making them just. Good

[fossil grail]

https://gyazo.com/ad559409df043d09843174737a8f9cbf.mp4
hmm....

[ember crag]

wh-

what is going on

why is the background a rave

i’m scared

[molten salmon]

what is a ten of moons

[fossil grail]

Six Suits, I like to play with it

[golden sparrow]

That's a good one

[hollow nimbus]

Yeah, I have no idea how that happened, nor why the background is currently watching Madagascar 3 with the rainbow afro. XD

[solar saddle]

what about ink&color suits?

[fossil grail]

oh don't worry, it will become more rainbow

umm...

[hollow nimbus]

It's angry!

[molten salmon]

btw I've been enjoying your mod , but i think that maybe "Salt" could be tweaked to be a little bit weaker since it often happens to get very strong thingies together , like negative and rare jolly or holo and rare jolly , if that's the intended functioning then no problem

[last snow]

It's already been nerfed, chill.

[molten salmon]

did i miss an update or was it stronger than 2 thingies before

[fossil grail]

https://gyazo.com/142e111bd6439dbf7fbf0740c8361fe8.mp4
umm......

[last snow]

It was nerfed to only give 1 tag, and increase the blind requirement by 10%.

[fossil grail]

it's currently just giving 1 tag

[last snow]

Ah, oki. Do you mean just 1 tag?

[fossil grail]

yes

1 tag

[solar saddle]

no more blindss

[fossil grail]

sorry

[molten salmon]

imagine if it gave one blind after you defeated the current one, could be an opportunity for resources

[solar saddle]

or death

[molten salmon]

maybe like a lower blind

[solar saddle]

x 20 blind requirement

[ember crag]

new alchemy card; LSD

[tiny marten]

Hides all your jokers and consumables

[ember crag]

Makes every playing card appear as a different playing card from your deck

[fervent shuttle]

At first I was scared that this mod was gonna just bloat the game with boring content but I'm severely wrong! This mod has blown me away with the fun, create yet simple things it adds to the game!

I have some silly suggestions I think are fun :)
Alchemical card ideas I have are,
for the blind all playing cards act like they have every suit.
Another silly one could be, use two random alchemical cards.

Some fun rework ideas for existing content is making it so with the philosopher's deck, instead of starting with alchemical cards a alchemical pack is guaranteed every shop.

Mortar and pastle should add a booster pack to every shop instead of another consumable slot.

[willow dove]

This is some final boss of Balatro shit

Like all the bosses at once

[fossil grail]

XD is not the final boss, it’s something else

[outer pike]

balatro story mode final boss

[obtuse rune]

true! this is the part where you fight jimbo's brother timmy, the alchemist

[tiny marten]

I did like the idea of a Nicholas Flamel Legendary Joker somebody suggested (probably call it Flamel if you were to make it a card)

[oblique heart]

is it up to be changed or not?

it's just Salt doesn't affect combat in any (even slightest) way at all atm

[fossil grail]

It will give only 1 tag when the next version drops

[oblique heart]

ok

Btw, would you mind sharing what is the actual design philosophy is for alc. cards right now?

Mb you changed direction or smth smth

[obtuse rune]

focus is on mid-blind usage and manipulating other elements of the game like hand sizes and such

[tiny marten]

And expanding on that concept, maybe gives a bonus depending on alchemy cards used

And like Yorick, a special bonus if you have used all different types of alchemy cards in the run

[oblique heart]

But there might be exceptions, right? (like Salt, Sulfur)

Also, thanks for sharing your vision

[obtuse rune]

salts a little bit in the odd zone, as is sulfur, we've got stuff in the works for sulfur at least

salt has also been tweaked but maybe we'll tweak it more

[oblique heart]

Thanks for covering those two! I really like Salt's effect of giving a random tag but it's quite unrelated to combat, I wonder what you will cook with it

I also had an idea for an Alchemic card that increases blind by 100% (x2 basically) which is supposed to be a big downside, however, it could be used for stalling to gain extra scaling

Sounds pretty niche and that's why I was thinking about the reward for increasing the max required score by x2

Not sure what that reward could be (thematically) since i don't really know which alc. element this effect could fit

[molten salmon]

that's basically my idea of challenging the same blind twice to gain twice the rewards and shops , but put from a theme perspective it could fit better to just make the blind harder to get maybe a tag (possible salt re-work), i don't even know if my first suggestion would be possible

[oblique heart]

That might work, however, giving player an option to both giga scale (by stalling) AND gaining a free tag could be crazy powerful, no?

Needs testing for sure

But I can see this work

[molten salmon]

not every deck makes so you can scale up by stalling so increasing the difficulty(10%-15%) in change of a random (or joker) tag could be actually pretty balanced

or instead double the difficulty by either increasing the stake of the blind (150%-175% of the original) and giving you additional hands and discards , or by straight up making you play a blind twice (not sure if it's possible) to gain increased rewards be it more cash or maybe consumables

[oblique heart]

Yeah, it could be done in many different ways

it will be up to devs how they would implement that (if they will at all)

[last snow]

Probably doubling the End of Blind money you get, or possibly also giving you the Tag reward that was show for beating it.

[oblique heart]

what about higher stakes?

no reward money for small blind

[last snow]

Probably the 2nd idea, then.

[vague sandal]

so like
The Fool but slightly better and for alchemical cards

[oblique heart]

Basically yes

[fossil grail]

I like that idea, but I’m not sure we will give it to sulfur specifically

Since we already have sulfur in the mod

[oblique heart]

Philosopher's sulfur is a powder made from the philosopher's stone

it's not actually a sulfur at all

[fossil grail]

We prefer to keep the philosopher’s stone as something more special than the other alchemicals, which is why I’m hesitant to add something like philosopher’s sulfur

[oblique heart]

I see I see

ok then

[sterile patrol]

this effect idea is a bit risk-reward, which i know doesn't really mesh with the "instant benefit" design of the other alchemy cards, but i thought it sounded fun:

Pyrite
For the rest of the blind:

All cards gain chips and mult equal to half of your $
Grants an effect similar to The Tooth's boss blind effect (lose a $ for every card played)

[spiral tendon]

I quite like the idea of getting the specific tag indicated under the blind as the reward, and then maybe it would either generate a random tag or simply fail to do so if used on a Boss blind

And then making it full on +100% the required score for the blind seems like it makes the card niche enough so you could take advantage of it for scaling but it would be inaccessible if you can't make it through. I wonder if that makes it too much of a "win more" card however, like if you don't have the scaling for it you can't really take advantage of the valuable aspect, and if you do have the scaling for it then the tag is hardly the major reward

something like "double required blind score. gain skip tag on blind completion" so you'd still get the scaling aspect on bosses but that's still probably often a bad idea because the boss effect makes it less convenient to scale how you like

I'd be interested in testing a version of salt that worked like that since it's not really intuitive whether that'd be a good change or not

[oblique heart]

ohhh

that's a cool one ngl

[tiny marten]

Fool’s Gold, like it

[ionic maple]

ty

[halcyon cobalt]

is the philosopher's stone going to be like the soul and black hole but for alchemy cards

[fossil grail]

yes!

[halcyon cobalt]

i had a feeling

[fossil grail]

worked on a little something...

version 1.1 of Codex is coming along pretty nicely
there are some really fun things planned

[ember crag]

OOOO

the Stone™ had arrived!!!

[tiny marten]

Gives a bunch of the effects?

[halcyon cobalt]

what does it do though

also it would be cool if the symbol floated like the soul did but that might be hard to do

[tiny marten]

Just yoink it off the bg

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

actually what is that symbol from

[oblique heart]

from Alchemy!

[halcyon cobalt]

well yeah

[oblique heart]

It would be nice if (similar to Soul and Black Hole) Philosopher's Stone would have its «Smoke» particles be a 3D pop out

not the actual symbol itself

[fossil grail]

wdym by <<Smoke>> particle?

[oblique heart]

This white fog around the symbol

[halcyon cobalt]

what?

but what does the stone do

[halcyon cobalt]

oh

[oblique heart]

idk what exactly it is

plasma?

heat?

[halcyon cobalt]

eh i think it looks fine on the card like that

[oblique heart]

steam?

[halcyon cobalt]

it looks kinda liquidy to me

like the circles are droplets

[oblique heart]

sure but if you want to add a little bit of sprinkles...

that'd be a nice touch

[halcyon cobalt]

maybe

no idea how you would do that though

[oblique heart]

me neither!

[fossil grail]

remember the weird background and stuff? Well, guess what card does it!

[halcyon cobalt]

ah

[ember crag]

OHHHH

of course

[halcyon cobalt]

maybe tune it down a bit

it seemed a bit too fast and too bright in those videos

but what else does it do

[oblique heart]

it adds +26 cards to your deck

[fossil grail]

Actually, I toned it down a lot from the videos

[fossil grail]

Retriggers all played cards this blind

[halcyon cobalt]

hm

[oblique heart]

ohhh, so that's why you didn't want to use red seal hand buff effect

[halcyon cobalt]

i like the effect

[oblique heart]

the effect is worth legendary

yeah

[halcyon cobalt]

seems on par with black hole

[oblique heart]

and it still works with Red Seals!

[halcyon cobalt]

cool

[oblique heart]

x4 retriggers

[fossil grail]

It also works with Sock and Buskin

[oblique heart]

Bustin deez nuts

got em

[fossil grail]

XD

And seltzer

[oblique heart]

and dusk

right?

[viral herald]

hanging chad

[oblique heart]

can't wait to see the full patch

[halcyon cobalt]

any other regular alchemy cards getting added

[oblique heart]

Thanks for your work guys

[oblique heart]

ik they teased a new tarot

idk about alchemy cards

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

i know about the tarot

would be cool if they did add some other alchemy cards or whatever

like phlogiston or oxygen

[fossil grail]

Oh there will be more alchemicals added

[viral herald]

theres an unused one in release one but theres no gurantee itll be added next update

[fossil grail]

Manganese

[viral herald]

yeah

[halcyon cobalt]

which ones

[viral herald]

also what one is on this pack? i dont recognize it

[oblique heart]

I'm familiar with this element since I'm a med student
it* helps your heart

[fossil grail]

We actually accidentally gave its ability to Antimony

[frigid jackal]

im trying to install the codex arcanum mod, but when i go to extract it into my mods folder it says it cant open file as archive does anyone know how to fix that?

[oblique heart]

use 7zip

tool

works for me

[frigid jackal]

yeah thats what im using just says cant open file as archive

[oblique heart]

ignis?

[viral herald]

npope

[oblique heart]

I'll make a video guide I swear

[viral herald]

i dont think its a released one

[halcyon cobalt]

are the new alchemy cards going to be the metals

[oblique heart]

but it's a triangle🔺

[halcyon cobalt]

lead to gold or whatever

[oblique heart]

I really wanna see what Powder and Black Sulfur do

[viral herald]

yeah BUT its different from the others

[oblique heart]

I've never seen such alchemy symbol before

I'll tell you that

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

it's not on the wikipedia page

[oblique heart]

oh and btw, will we see this goat?

this element is peak

Potential new elements might be (imo): og metals, powder, black sulfur, wax, soap and oil.

[halcyon cobalt]

i'm also thinking phlogiston and oxygen could work

[oblique heart]

also lodestone!

[halcyon cobalt]

lodestone?

[oblique heart]

yes

[halcyon cobalt]

hm

[oblique heart]

looks cool

[halcyon cobalt]

does it stand for the magnetic rocks

[oblique heart]

just like my balls

[oblique heart]

ig so

[ember crag]

That’s Aero, is it not?

[halcyon cobalt]

saw that coming a mile away

no

[fossil grail]

A lot of materials to work with…

[halcyon cobalt]

it has a weird u thing at the bottom and the arrow without a line through it

[oblique heart]

indeed...

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

[viral herald]

im sure its not

[halcyon cobalt]

do you guys have any ideas for their abilities

[fossil grail]

maybe

Maybe not

It’s getting really late

But I do have an entire week of vacation ahead of me soon so a lot of work will be done then

[oblique heart]

guys its ignis (fire) in the bowl (lighter or smth)

lamp perhaps?

or stove

[viral herald]

i think its an old version of aero actually

[oblique heart]

looks cool regardless

[halcyon cobalt]

i was saying guys meaning everyone in this thread

[halcyon cobalt]

wait yeah i see it now

curious

[viral herald]

more of a harp

but its slightly different

[ember crag]

Okay I thought I was crazy for a moment

[oblique heart]

Great to hear that!

more content for us*

[halcyon cobalt]

anyone have ideas for the other alchemy symbols

[oblique heart]

yeah, I've shared mines in the doc

I can send a link if you want

[halcyon cobalt]

sure

[oblique heart]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-3UX_5q1N0Uh6P6QVmzDLU9jr4UWafAi8YSJcBti4PI/edit?usp=drivesdk

they are in the very end

There's not much yet but I'll add more if I come up with something interesting

[halcyon cobalt]

hmm

the blue seal one seems eh since you can only get 4 consumable slots max (without catalyst joker) and you'll probably be holding some alchemy cards too

[oblique heart]

I was keeping in mind that we could get more consumable slot increasing effects in the future

[halcyon cobalt]

true

i think it would be better to seperate the extra consumable slot effect from catalyst joker

[oblique heart]

also hand-wide effect is to insure that you have enough flexibility in building your hand

[halcyon cobalt]

yeah

[oblique heart]

Yeah, I've mentioned it in the docs

[halcyon cobalt]

actually

[oblique heart]

extra slots could give a whole new joker

[halcyon cobalt]

it would be cool to have a sigmar's garden joker

in reference to opus magnum

[oblique heart]

who?

[halcyon cobalt]

it's a minigame in opus magnum

which is an alchemy game

[oblique heart]

personally, not familiar with that

[halcyon cobalt]

mk

would be cool though

[obtuse rune]

its just the aero symbol with a white outline :y

[ember crag]

i fuckin knew it lol

[oblique heart]

ahaha

[viral herald]

WHY DOES IT LOOK SO MUCH DIFFERENT AND LIKE A HARP

[halcyon cobalt]

i think its cause it looks more like a triangle in a weird bowl shape instead of a large triangle with a line through it

also it looks like two seperate pieces

[tiny marten]

Because obscured by stuff

[obtuse rune]

probably because the dark shade on the right side matches with the shade for underneath the symbol so it looks rounder

and because its obscured by stuff

[oblique heart]

Horse Dung
• Does nothing?

(Every 3rd use of Horse Dung card creates a Philosopher's Stone card)

[fossil grail]

Working on a new voucher...

[oblique heart]

Hell yeah

more ways to get Alchemical cards!

[glacial blaze]

yay

[glass patrol]

Are you adding a second set of vouchers aside from Mortal and Pestle? I saw that the biggest complaint was there were no "+1 card packs" vouchers which made it a bit hard to get Arcana cards

Also your art is incredible

[fossil grail]

First, the art was created by Lyman.

[fossil grail]

And about this, the voucher allows alchemicals cards to appear in the normal shop

[glass patrol]

Ah I see thanks. His art is excellent. Also my friend just played your mod for the first time and loved it, so cheers for such an awesome creation!

[solar saddle]

lymans good at art, heres one he made for my mod.

[tiny marten]

What type of effects are these supposed to give? Instant gratification?

[solar saddle]

it multiplies your total chip value by 85% of its current amount to 135% of its current amount

[tiny marten]

I meant like, subatomic cards in general, if they are getting more

[solar saddle]

i hadn't thought of an overarching theme, but they do get consumed. the 2nd card will fuse two selected metal cards increasing their effect.

[oblique heart]

Fan art! :D

[spice yacht]

finally

shit card

[glacial blaze]

isnt that lodestone?

[spice yacht]

[spice yacht]

Guh

[oblique heart]

oh shit

[glacial blaze]

literally

[oblique heart]

I made a wrong symbol

lol

[oblique heart]

this is dung

[half gate]

Night Soil would fit the alchemical time period better

[glacial blaze]

still reeling that its on some list of alchemy somewhere, and it looks like wikipedia from the colors and the font

[oblique heart]

what?

[vague sandal]

they're surprised that horse dung is an actual alchemy symbol

and it seems like it comes from a wikipedia page

speaking of- where ARE you getting this list

[glacial blaze]

thank you for translating that

[tiny marten]

It’s the shit

[oblique heart]

smth like that

(I'm bad at background art)

[vague sandal]

is that like

a website

[oblique heart]

wiki

[vague sandal]

oh

radical

[tiny marten]

I mean it’s supposed to look like… dung

[oblique heart]

it definitely looks like something of all time

Suggestion for Phosphorus buff:

• Return 5 discarded cards back to your deck (Prioritizing modified cards).

Seals, editions, enhancements all count as modifiers

Currently Phosphorus requires a lot of things to happen to get value from it (and even then it's not something crazy powerful), so increasing the number of returned cards + prioritizing modified cards (which really helps in early game when you have very little modified cards) would put Phosphorus in line with other elements in terms of value

The number of returning cards could even be buffed up to 5-10

4 is quite negligible

@fossil grail (sry for the ping )

I heavily insist on this QoL buff

[fossil grail]

I’ll see what I can do about this, but sorting the deck is not an issue IIRC

[oblique heart]

big thanks

[spiral tendon]

I think there was some discussion about making it return cards into the hand, was that formally decided against or is that still open for consideration?

Or maybe even "return cards to the top of the deck" so it's almost the same thing

that would effectively let you play the same identical hand twice in a given round

actually I think the top of the deck thing was what I thought it did originally

OH YEAH I had another idea on the drive to work today, I thought that maybe Cobalt should upgrade the next hand by like 5 or 10 levels or something, but only the next time you play it, so it's not a permanent effect but has the advantage of giving you a bunch of root Chips/Mult, becoming better if your build is leaning on planet stats a lot, but also not being terrible if you aren't because +20 mult is +20 mult

And of course again playing into the theme of "a lot of power now, but only right now"

[oblique heart]

I've already suggested the same thing for Cobalt before

and it makes sense

[oblique heart]

Very interesting

[oblique heart]

I'd personally test how powerful this is and if it still generally sucks ass, this change could be implementation as well

[obtuse rune]

so originally when i pitched the design for phosphorus it was going to be to hand

feder made it to deck, and at first i wasnt the biggest fan of it, as i felt like it was weak

but i have seen videos and runs of it myself that i think the use case for it is rather niche, but unique

and also im a little fond of having a little bit of a power variance in the packs

[oblique heart]

it's very random in terms of value it generates + requires extra hands/discards to dig for the cards you returned (you also need to first GET those modified cards in your run and PLAY them during a blind before Phosphorus would do anything)

this card asks a lot

that's more than just niche at this point (imo)

[spiral tendon]

I think even considering how niche it is, returning the selected cards to the top of the deck expands its use cases a little bit but not too much, as in order to redraw specific good cards, you essentially need to have topdecked them anyway, or just get lucky deeper into the round

And it doesn't feel any more complicated than shuffling them into the deck randomly, but it makes the fact that you used an alchemical card feel more immediately impactful or like you did something

[oblique heart]

It makes Phosphorus feel
consistent in terms of value it generates

that's what you are saying?

[spiral tendon]

I think maybe I am saying that ultimately, but rather than the consistency of "these cards are now in your hand, you have ultimate power over them" it's more like "regardless of what it picks, you will see them immediately and will be able to go from there"

[oblique heart]

the og idea basically sounds like «on average better Aero»

[tiny marten]

Oreo

[spiral tendon]

yeah lol I think that's what I remembered about that concept

but yeah ultimately you would have more influence over your next draws

and then maybe phosphor + aero synergy could combine to form that idea

instead of one just being better version of the other

[oblique heart]

will that be necessary then?

[spiral tendon]

Cause there's the one that's increased hand size by what 2 for the blind?

[oblique heart]

quicksilver

[spiral tendon]

yeah that

[oblique heart]

I think prioritizing modified cards would still be a great QoL change regardless

since you don't have many in early game

Now that I think about it, top of the deck idea makes the card way too consistent, just like you described "replay the same hand"

not a fan of it

hmmm

[nova whale]

oh yeah do you mind if i use your code for consumables that go to the consumable area?

mine will be more based around not using them

[spiral tendon]

I mean idk how strong replaying the same hand, provided you drew and played it immediately on first draw, is compared to like retriggering all cards or whatever, it seems appropriately situational

[oblique heart]

yeah, I'm still hesitating whether or not it will be more fun/balanced this way

[spiral tendon]

might just need to be tested frankly

[oblique heart]

indeed

[oblique heart]

you know what

I just made a couple full runs on white stake with Alc deck and I can say for sure Phosphorous feels atrocious lol