Daily Discussion #19 - New Spectrals/Spectral Rebalances

[warm arch]

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New Spectrals time! Also some of them got updated:

Familiar/Grim/Incantation

Now give cards of their respective types with random Enhancements.

Ankh

Create a copy of a random Joker, destroy all other Jokers.

Hex

Add Polychrome to a random Joker, destroy all other Jokers.

Cryptid

Create 2 copies of 1 selected card in your hand.

We already discussed the Seal Spectrals, but discussing their place in the Spectral lineup is still welcome. (Deja Vu for Red Seal, Talisman for Gold Seal, Trance for Blue Seal, and Medium for Purple Seal.)

As always, suggest topics for future discussions and tell me if this timing doesn't work for you.

[atomic igloo]

Ankh should be renamed to white whale

thats all Ima say

[warm arch]

i like these new spectrals

ankh is cool and the downside is adequate

hex probably somewhat underpowered unless you're lucky enough to get it early

[atomic igloo]

^

[midnight pike]

Hex is probably the new familar

[warm arch]

and cryptid is pretty much exactly what you want out of a spectral-level deck manip

[midnight pike]

Aka, it's kinda garbage

[warm arch]

incantation was worse

[atomic igloo]

hex with ahnk goes hard if get both though

[midnight pike]

Debateable

[warm arch]

before the upgrade

[midnight pike]

Face cards massively sucked in v0.9

[warm arch]

they did

the control over which ranks you got was still kind of worth though

[midnight pike]

Fair enough

[warm arch]

much more likely to get multiple of the same rank

[midnight pike]

Yeah fair

[real dirge]

Hologram goes a long way in making the card-adding spectrals more viable, though the game could use more effects to make a bloated deck feel like a build

[warm arch]

i definitely agree faces kinda sucked tho

yeah, extra cards has downsides

but making 1 rank easier to get is still good

[midnight pike]

No consistency

Also tbh I personally think it would've been funny if there was a spectral that applied either foil or holo to every jonkler

But a man can dream

[atomic igloo]

maybe like standard packs you can pick all cards, but hologram nerfed to 0.2x could be cool

[real dirge]

I'd like it if each of the card-adders upgraded in different ways (i.e. one gives enhancements, one gives editions, and the last gives seals). As is, it just feels like a gamble if you're going to get a bunch of random steel and/or lucky cards

[midnight pike]

Fair enough

Ace enhancements, faces seals, and numbers editions

Just to balance it out or smth

Idrk

[warm arch]

interesting idea

[midnight pike]

Tbf though, spectrals and standards are the only way to obtain seals so

Maybe giving 3 face cards with seals could be to broken?

[real dirge]

you could balance it a little bit by restricting the amount. The ace-giver already only gives 2 cards, so you could give that spectral the seal effect to limit it's application

though that would make red seal aces a very realistic build

[midnight pike]

Yeah but hack doesn't trig aces

I think we would be in the clear for that

[warm arch]

Strength :)

[midnight pike]

Oh no

That's alot of lion huggers

[warm arch]

would still be a bit difficult to line up

[real dirge]

I kind of think that hex needs to do a bit more than "polychrome something, destroy nothing because you sold the rest of your jokers". If it gave a random joker polychrome for every joker it destroyed, you could get away with destroying half of your lineup and giving half of it polychrome, making you rethink your build on the fly based on which jokers survived. I guess you could also guarantee which survived if some of your jokers already had editions?

[warm arch]

you'd need to strength them one at a time, with strengths in your consumables slots instead of packs unless you're very lucky

[midnight pike]

I agree with the first statement, a worse aknh Is dumb imo

Personally I think it could be a money thing

[real dirge]

"Sell the rest of your jokers for double their sell value"?

[midnight pike]

Based on the Midas touch prehaps?

[midnight pike]

Bro read my mind

I was thinking of sell value as well

[real dirge]

Also makes scaling your sell value really, really funny.

And really tragic if your egg gets polychromed

[warm arch]

adds more sell value for the next hex :)

[midnight pike]

Lmao

[real dirge]

hex can't polychrome a joker with existing editions, correct, same as WoF?

[warm arch]

correct

[midnight pike]

Tbh I'm willing to ditch the polychrome part of hex as a whole

Hex means to curse so

[steep lake]

idt I've ever meaningfully used hex, probably only as an unlock

hex seems fine on its own but when ankh exists there's not much of a reason to take the former over the latter

especially considering quite a few of the jokers in this demo are xmult/scaling/both

[ionic socket]

Lol I will fight you over Hologram. People do not appreciate the downside of deck bloat

they just see hologram number go up and think all is well

[atomic igloo]

I dont like hologram

I dont think Ive actually had a run with it

[ionic socket]

Some people are calling it overpowered when someone posts a 5x holgram

[atomic igloo]

Im saying this could be an interesting way to buff it

[ionic socket]

butwhat they dont see are the 10 others who die ante 4 when they cant hit their 5 card hand with their 60+ card deck

and yeah i see what you are sayingh

[atomic igloo]

yep

I totally agre, buff with pick all card you might be able to adventually scale your xmult faster than having the right hand matters

[stiff grotto]

On Hologram, I found it performs pretty well in Flush builds and "sub Full House" builds (Pair/3oaK/Two Pair/Full House), as the target hand is still consistent enough and you don't have to look too closely to what you're adding (just pick a suit / few ranks to add and destroy / transform the rest).

[ionic socket]

@warm arch Ideally these discussions could have their own channel with a new thread posted each day. There is some good feedback shared in these but they get lost so quick in the main chat

[warm arch]

i don't have permissions to make any channels

i am trying to reduce loss by putting a link to the next one from the previous one so all the regulars can find it easily

i can't find the messages but i thought i brought up similar points to thunk

and it was a "we'll wait and see after 1.0" deal

that's not a quote though

[ionic socket]

I know i figured it may have been possible somehow. I only brought it up because I know they way they are designed now, they arent getting the amount of traction they would if they had another channel. Not a major gripe but I would like more exposure and discussions to be had here

[warm arch]

i'd like to be able to bring more attention to this as well

im afraid trying to do so will be considered disruptive by the mods

they've cracked down on posting links to posts in other channels, and similar things might happen here

[ionic socket]

I feel like theres no harm in asking the mods about it. But its your decision

[warm arch]

i just make threads

daily discussion doesn't belong to me and anyone can make that decision

if you want to try advertising, go for it

and im open to suggestions you think might go over better with the mods

i will try asking though

[ionic socket]

of course like i said this is only so everyone has a place for focused discussion that doesent get lost after 30min

with the discord continually growing, i feel like this may end up happening eventually anyways