#Daily Discussion #4 - Smeared Joker

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idle trench
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Smeared Joker (Rare)

Hearts and Diamonds count as the same suit. Spades and Clubs count as the same suit.

Feel free to discuss balance, strategy, design, fun, art, etc.

As always, suggest topics for future discussions and tell me if this timing doesn't work for you.

coral wharf
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This one is fun! Compared to the other rare jokers it definitely deserved the nerf to uncommon though

sharp tangle
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One of, if not the only joker that doesn’t technically follow the “all jokers have the word ‘joker’ in the art” on account of it being a bit smeared

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But it’s resemblance to jimbo makes that a moot point

idle trench
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uh the image didn't load so here it is

smeared_joker.png
sharp tangle
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He’s so chunched

summer steeple
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I see it in there

image.png
coral wharf
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Would be cool if it made all the cards look smeared, so the suits are almost visually indistinguishable except for color

summer steeple
sharp tangle
#

That’s a lot of new art for one joker 😔

coral wharf
#

Also would be weird with the colorblind colors

summer steeple
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2 black cards + 2 red cards = X3 mult, love it

Flower_Pot_Text_PNG.png
grave sleet
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Flower pot is uncom?

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I swear it was rare

idle trench
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depends if thunk said that was an error

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i remember them saying that about a card rarity once 🤔

coral wharf
#

Uncommon builds will be fun in 1.0

summer steeple
#

lots of my assets are outdated so it's totally possible

grave sleet
#

Ngl smeared could be a rare if all suited cards count as every suit

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Too far fetched tho

idle trench
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gosh

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easiest flush house of my life

grave sleet
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Lmao

coral wharf
#

Baseball Card, Flower Pot, Smeared, Ramen, etc.

grave sleet
#

But it does make smeared worthy of a rate util title

idle trench
#

starting to sound like a collection of LBAL symbols

grave sleet
#

Does it not?

idle trench
#

might be legendary tbh

grave sleet
#

Nah

idle trench
#

yah

grave sleet
#

Doubt it's that op

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Nvm

idle trench
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a joker that enables flush house by itself is too much for rare

grave sleet
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Probably is that op

coral wharf
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Legendaries are run-defining. Smeared is not, arguably

idle trench
grave sleet
#

Well there's the other option of reworking smeared

idle trench
#

i like smeared as is tho

grave sleet
#

"Spawns 3 wild cards of random rank"

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Or smth

coral wharf
#

From a design standpoint smeared is basically perfect

grave sleet
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Yeah

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That's why I said that the way I did

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I didn't want to go there

coral wharf
#

Simple effect, great corresponding art/name

ancient cobalt
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what I miss

idle trench
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the beginning

bright stratus
grave sleet
#

Tbh I want smeared ti be uncommon, but then again I want it to be rare

summer steeple
#

Smeared + Juggler = god mode

grave sleet
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Wraith cycle

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Got me like

sharp tangle
idle trench
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possibly

sharp tangle
#

When we were doing the rewords

coral wharf
# ancient cobalt what I miss

Smeared is cool!

  • Great synergy with some jokers like Flower Pot
  • Designed very well
  • Enables Flush House almost by itself
  • On the borderline of being uncommon or rare
sharp tangle
#

Funny that 2 of the sept demos rares are in the border of uncommon

idle trench
#

i remember drspectred making some good points about how smeared might even be overrated

summer steeple
#

Smeared + 4 Fingers is like a whole other way to play the game on it's own

idle trench
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how many use cases it actually has and all that

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you don't need smeared to make flushes, but you might need it for the higher flush hands

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or i guess if you have more hands than usual with a flush build

sharp tangle
ancient cobalt
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I like smeared early to rack telescope and some edge cases

grave sleet
ancient cobalt
#

edge cases like delayed grat and stuff

coral wharf
#

lmao I though that was a leak when it was discussed

idle trench
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local framed it as one

summer steeple
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I am here with 'the old knowledge'

grave sleet
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Tbh maybe it's bias because v0.9 only had 4 rares, but smeared being a rare was such a funny troll with wraith

idle trench
grave sleet
coral wharf
#

I was sad when I got Smeared and DNA, happy when I got Blueprint and Stencil

grave sleet
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Meh stencil was overrated

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Tbh I think it's fine to make smeared uncom

coral wharf
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Very useful when I was speedrunning though

grave sleet
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Looking at the roster, and the jokers from v0.9

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The most amount of util jonklers were uncommon

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And the most unique were uncom

formal stag
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Always picked it when I started, seemed very good and fun, "lately" I dont add it late to a run. Thoughts?

grave sleet
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And it makes sense to let uncom be mainly util

coral wharf
grave sleet
#

Stencils a uncom?

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Tf when did that happen

ancient cobalt
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Lol

idle trench
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fun fact moving from rare to uncommon is a buff

coral wharf
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Let me find image

ancient cobalt
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Im gonne have to miss this disscusion cause of bph bug testing

idle trench
#

bruh

coral wharf
grave sleet
#

M

idle trench
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pretty crazy

coral wharf
grave sleet
#

Revert stencil to v0.8.7 (you wont)

idle trench
#

although i think the rarity of that particular card was debated

main eagle
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I have a question related to this topic actually - because I do need to do a final pass for rarity to make sure generally all Rares are better than all Uncommons

ancient cobalt
coral wharf
grave sleet
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Tbh the only util rares off of my head is blueprint, blueprint, and blueprint

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Unless BS is rare

idle trench
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lol

main eagle
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Would you rather have new stencil than the Joker that gives X2 mult if your hand contains a flush?

idle trench
#

🤔

grave sleet
summer steeple
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have it where? New demo?

main eagle
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1.0

idle trench
#

stencil isn't relevant the entire game but it doesn't have to be. it does so much early on in the run

ancient cobalt
#

quick make it even

idle trench
#

why

main eagle
#

No

ancient cobalt
idle trench
#

shadow being an agent of chaos

grave sleet
#

Smeared is a util

main eagle
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I'm asking because I want to know

ancient cobalt
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you know it

grave sleet
#

So it's useful thw entire game

ancient cobalt
#

I dont like flushes cause they are to consistent

grave sleet
#

And it helps flush, which makes it stronger towards flush

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Stencil tho

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It raw power

main eagle
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So same question but with Smeared now - would you rather have Smeared or X2 mult if hand contains a flush?

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in general

grave sleet
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That's the issue

summer steeple
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I finally understand the question

idle trench
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likely the second

grave sleet
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So smeared becomes less wanted if there's a viable way to make flushes, and also buff flushes

main eagle
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Smeared vs Tribe

coral wharf
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Also if you find a game breaking combo with two jokers, suddenly stencil can be x3 mult

bright stratus
idle trench
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i think i'd rather have tribe. smeared is interesting but has limitations

ancient cobalt
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I like the idea of Smeared better but think the idea of Tribe is stronger

grave sleet
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The thing is smeared doesn't help that much, it's only flush

jagged talon
main eagle
#

Tribe is a quintessential Rare joker

idle trench
#

it can help with the higher flush hands but it still needs help. might be better as a transition state joker

main eagle
#

So that is a good measuring stick

grave sleet
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Duo is my favorite (cry abt it)

grave sleet
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Most of the time

idle trench
#

it is power if it creates higher hands

grave sleet
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But you can use tribe/droll for power

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And still have Jupiter as an option

idle trench
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por que no los dos

grave sleet
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No hablo espanol

formal stag
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Oui oui

grave sleet
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Also why no 2z

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???

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What did 2s do

idle trench
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"why not both"

grave sleet
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You said Los dos

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Your saying multiple 2s

idle trench
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yes that's how that's said

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unless the taco commercial lied to me

grave sleet
#

Stop questioning my Spanish teacher but whatever

hexed root
#

I found that with Smeared, I found my deck to be pretty same-suit-ish near the end of the run - even if I sold Smeared

grave sleet
#

Smeared could be a lower end uncom imo

hexed root
#

Smeared definitely feels like a run enabler, but possible to transition off of

main eagle
#

I'll give you guys the measuring sticks for this and future reference - Tribe for Rare
Loyalty card or 8 ball for Uncommon
Half Joker for Common

grave sleet
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Yeah-

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I was abt to say

idle trench
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that uncommon measuring stick is weird

jagged talon
grave sleet
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Would you take marble joker and go highcard, or smeared and go flush

main eagle
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Uncommon is the weirdest one because many effects are 'huge upside with big condition' or 'passive ability to do something wacky'

grave sleet
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Both are uncom

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What strat is just easier/better to pull

grave sleet
idle trench
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probably smeared, but i think that's a stone problem and not a smeared problem

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stone is restricted to lower hand type

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which sucks

grave sleet
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Fair

hexed root
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I can understand why Smeared isn't Rare now

grave sleet
#

But you can run trips and 2 ston

main eagle
#

It compares unfavourably to other rares

idle trench
#

trips are nice with stone yeah

#

although getting 3oak in hand is still challenging, so it's harder to use with stone

bright stratus
jagged talon
idle trench
main eagle
inner tapir
hexed root
main eagle
#

I'd love to A/B test a bunch of Jokers to find true rankings

idle trench
#

is there a website for that

main eagle
#

That actually is a good argument for putting both Smeared and Shortcut in rare

inner tapir
grave sleet
jagged talon
idle trench
grave sleet
hexed root
#

(I assume this is not a call for playtesters)

inner tapir
idle trench
summer steeple
#

Jokerbook

main eagle
#

No the question would be something along the lines of 'in an average run, would you generally prefer to see A or B in the shop?'

grave sleet
grave sleet
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Note "be"

idle trench
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i rather be therealevab

main eagle
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There aren't enough people to test this with - and besides most effects haven't been used by the people that would vote on them

grave sleet
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Delete smeared from the game and problem solved /j

main eagle
#

But that is the main criteria I think about for rarity. Alongside what drspectred mentioned

jagged talon
#

not convinced y'all can be trusted 🤔

main eagle
#

I don't want 11,000 of you to be voting either 🙂

grave sleet
jagged talon
#

Btw, I think I've said this before. I think the "reverted" version of Stencil is solidly Rare.

main eagle
#

It's like hanging a picture on a wall. It's more important to do it by feel (does it look crooked) than by measuring it because you cant trust that the walls/ceiling themselves are perfectly aligned

grave sleet
idle trench
#

+X1 per empty slot

grave sleet
#

Kk ig

jagged talon
#

it's high on the "funk-o-meter"

grave sleet
#

Can we make this discussion about rare jokers as a whole

main eagle
#

A big part of smeared is how rare it is

inner tapir
#

solo stencil early game sounds too goofy

main eagle
#

I agree it seems like it should be right on the brink of rare/uncommon

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(smeared)

grave sleet
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Tbh as someone that is no longer a flush addict, it's more appealing to newer players

hexed root
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you can microadjust rarities / how often Jokers appear, right?

grave sleet
#

Newer players always abuse flush (prove me wrobg)

main eagle
#

I plan on doing that after release as things change

idle trench
#

o

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sneaky

jagged talon
#

I think I'd rather have Smeared as an Uncommon
partly because balance (it's not actually that strong)
but mostly because it has that "this tickles my brain" factor
of Fingers and Shortcut.

hexed root
#

this reads like a poem

grave sleet
#

Kaihu

idle trench
sharp tangle
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I think I agree with uncommon smeared

main eagle
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Oh interesting - I would have thought that reasoning would be an argument to make it rare?

hexed root
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I agree that it's like Fingers and Shortcut

main eagle
#

Question is: Is more wacky = better wacky?

grave sleet
idle trench
#

another factor is that our usage of smeared was in the context of the demo, which is 2(?) rounds short.

sharp tangle
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And with smeared you can absolutely get rid of it later in the run after suit changers

idle trench
#

if it falls off later, it will fall off harder in the full version

jagged talon
grave sleet
main eagle
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I don't mean the strength of the card - that is definitely in Uncommon

grave sleet
#

Like jug or burlglar

sharp tangle
main eagle
#

I'm talking about how transformative it is to how you play - some of those cards you don't want to show up as often so they keep their novelty

summer steeple
jagged talon
#

Smeared has an "oh, dang, now we're cooking" feel
"here's what I get to do" now vs
"here's what I have to do" now (8 Ball, Superposition, Seance)

idle trench
#

also future transitions

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"here's what i could do later"

sharp tangle
#

I think smeared is not transformative enough to justify rare

surreal crest
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Smeared is pretty good early on for consistency, for the last round it's useless if you already have the big hand ™️ cooked up

grave sleet
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Smeared is always something you can discard

main eagle
grave sleet
#

I end up trashing it be ause suit changer tarotd

main eagle
#

Seems like the only cards in 'rare' are there because they are really good

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Not because they are really wacky

hexed root
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will there be a "get a random Rare joker" in the full game?

main eagle
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Is smeared the wackiest effect?

idle trench
#

no tbh

main eagle
hexed root
#

out of the rare jokers in the demo? yes

hexed root
idle trench
#

four fingers is the wackiest i'd say

summer steeple
#

4 fingers is wackier imho

jagged talon
idle trench
#

valid

main eagle
#

Seance is 2nd order wacky but yeah I see

hexed root
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what's the definition of wacky here? how much it changes how you play?

main eagle
#

Shortcut seems wackier than smeared from what I have played, but it's also newer to me

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Yeah

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By itself

idle trench
#

i could see shortcut being there as well

grave sleet
#

The wackiest joker is jimbo

idle trench
#

you have so much room for straights now

grave sleet
#

He is the laughing matter

idle trench
#

imagine trying to fill a straight and you have double the outs

main eagle
#

Pareidolia is a lil wacky - but probably not as much

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Same goes for Oops! all 6s

surreal crest
#

shortcut/four fingers are pretty wacky

grave sleet
#

Pareidolia is just confusing

surreal crest
#

four fingers if u go for strush

grave sleet
#

Ceremonial dagger is emotional pain for local

summer steeple
idle trench
#

pareidolia only enabling other effects instead of having its own is very wacky

grave sleet
#

I think that's a Lil wacky

idle trench
#

but maybe in a negative way

grave sleet
#

Pareodolia has sn effect silly

idle trench
#

what buff do you get if it is your only joker?

main eagle
#

Burglar is a tiny bit wacky

sharp tangle
#

It makes sense to me that “wacky” effects don’t justify rare as much as “strong” effects, but I don’t feel like I can explain it lmao

grave sleet
#

Merry Andy is mad wacky

jagged talon
#

I'd prefer most "enablers" to be Uncommon across the board

main eagle
#

Obelisk/bus are also somewhat wacky

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Ok there is some wackiness

grave sleet
#

While we're on the topic of wacky

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Where is 5oaK joker

summer steeple
#

Onyx Agate is a lil wacky

main eagle
#

Hit the road

jagged talon
hexed root
#

Bus changes how you play a fair bit

sharp tangle
#

Hit the road is a lot of fun

hexed root
grave sleet
#

Technically bp and bs are the most wacky

main eagle
#

I still think smeared is up there for pure wackiness

grave sleet
#

They are almost every jonkler

summer steeple
#

Acrobat has me hoarding for 1 huge hand. Loyalty card has me counting number of hands until boss blind.

hexed root
main eagle
#

But with the large uncommon pool, I think it probably shows up an appropriate amount

grave sleet
bright stratus
summer steeple
formal stag
#

Huh, i wonder if we get to a point that a lower rarity joker is less common due to the amount in that category

main eagle
grave sleet
jagged talon
#

I like Bus at Common because it allows you to more frequently get it early (and start scaling early)
I like Constellation at Uncommon because it reduces this. But not Rare because then you'd never be able to scale it.

main eagle
#

It plays on the perceived 'risk' of acrobats - waiting until your last hand

grave sleet
main eagle
#

Acrobat used to be (back like a year ago) +1 slot in the shop

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+1 option in all packs too

summer steeple
#

Is the Soul lower rarity in packs I assume?

grave sleet
#

It's spectral now (scam)

summer steeple
#

Because Soul = Wacky, just in the selling something to make room, shifting dramatically to use the boon you just got

main eagle
#

true

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It's very rare

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I want to make it so you can't force a legendary during a run - only if you're lucky

summer steeple
#

Shoot the moon/Seeing Double also seem Wacky in the niche sense of the word

surreal crest
#

no soul from seance? (was probably answered already but I forgot)

main eagle
#

I don't know if they really change how you play all that much though

#

You need to also lean into them

sharp tangle
#

What if Soul is only available from arcana packs after you get omen globe 😳

main eagle
#

The soul is part of the 'huge' experience I want in Balatro - something you might interact for the first time after having played for a while

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Gives the game some depth. I really liked it in the playtest

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Anyway - smeared joker!

sharp tangle
#

Smeared joker’s art is so chunched lol I love him

main eagle
#

The art: This was the lowest effort art in the game. I basically applied a filter to Jimbo from aseprite

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And it looked perfect

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And I immediately thought up the effect from that

sharp tangle
#

That’s very nice

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It fits perfectly

jagged talon
#

So what you're saying is
Smeared... Edition?!?!

sharp tangle
#

Smeared applies that filter to every playing card

main eagle
#

Balatro - visual impairment edition

bright stratus
summer steeple