#Worst Joker

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

rough tangle
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Alright folks, piggybacking off @heady hollow idea, I want to hear your opinion on the absolute worst Joker in the game. Could be most disappointing, too niche, worst art, or totally useless 🃏

rich gazelle
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Right now I think Mime is poorly worded. 'In Hand' abilities can either mean in the hand of cards I've played, like +2 Mult/+20 chips/steel or in hand like retained unplayed cards, like Glass cards, gold cards. This could be much clearer.

dawn mural
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Juggler because useless

hollow forge
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worst art - Swashbuckler, being "basic", but one of the later unlocks.
very niche - Perkeo, just because of the limitation of jokers being split with tarot/planets, while being legendary

rich gazelle
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The Idol feels too RNG to be worthwhile. X2 MULT once on a 1/52 chance it's the card I need, ir if I happen to have 5 of that card, it's really cool once, then back to being near useless. (Though I haven't attempted to use it yet[because of this perceived issue] so it may actually play better than expected)

dawn mural
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credit card, marble joker, troubadour and throwback are also pretty bad

pliant socket
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I'm struggling to use Cartomancer because by the time I feel like I can afford to buy random Tarots from the shop, I can't really afford to be down -3 jokers (if we count Carto himself)

rough tangle
rich gazelle
hollow forge
rough tangle
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The ones that Xmult cards are the best super late game but are not great early mid game

rough tangle
pliant socket
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Shoot the Moon feels extremely niche and just struggles to be relevant: even if you have a massive hand size and you'd somehow manage to cram a deck full of Queens of Spades, you'd still probably be better off with a x2

dawn mural
pliant socket
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Hanging Chad just seems like a worse Buskin unless you're also running Scholar (or maybe Fibonacci)

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but that one's more of an issue with there being way more face synergy than ace synergy

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Even Steven needs a better payoff compared to Odd Todd, methinks

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Gros Michel should probably be common rather than uncommon, considering its downside

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and in the end, I can't really find a good excuse to ever run throwback

hollow forge
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Throwback is like Magnet, if you have gold seal cards, but don’t have magnet

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(Not that good for a joker)

dawn mural
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i feel like throwback is mainly for gold cards

pliant socket
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sure, the problem mostly is that you're still essentially -1 joker with it, and you make up for it by drawing the shit cards into your hand as well

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granted, sure, I've probably been playing a bit too much ng+++ with black decks to ever have an actual good time with any cards

ashen rock
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Invisible joker on next update sounds pretty meh

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Jokers I haven't tried, and not really see their point: Hanging Chad, Dusk, Throwback, Certificate (Mostly because you rarely get gold seals anyways)

Jokers I have tried, are pretty meh: Chaos the Clown,

Jokers I have tried, but have been really unsuccessful with: Hack, Scholar

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However, jokers that I think are a bit problematic and can't really build around them, mostly due to joker slot limitations, are Perkeo, Astronomer and Cartomancer

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You need 3 slots for all of them (Or at least 2 to have a combo), THEN two extra slots to duplicate the cards

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So Perkeo, by itself covers a staggering 3 slots

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Cartomaster, due to duplication rules, also covers 3 slots.

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Might be viable in NG++, but I can't see it being anywhere else

dawn mural
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  • at least one of the double probability joker
ashen rock
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For cartomancer, yeah

dawn mural
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and astronomer

ashen rock
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oh true

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Perkeo is pretty underwhelming for an ultra rare card

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They might just need some kind of extra Tarot/Planet card slot, or even a "You get to use one extra tarot/planet card per trigger in your next crystal ball/planetarium" kind of treatment

dawn mural
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or a special temporary one that is basically negative but disappears after next fight if not used

rough tangle
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So then they would all need 2 slots

dawn mural
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not necessarily

ashen rock
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disregard the hack/scholar, remembered a run with these 2 and fibonacchi going pretty well when also adding a multiplier

rough tangle
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So like Perkeo, youd have the joker plus Death for example. Then it would spawn a negative death card and increase joker slots from 6 to 7

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same goes with Cartomancer and Astronomer

dawn mural
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for astronomer you can just use them from the shop

ashen rock
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and you lose that joker slot on end of start of shop

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or on card use ofc

rough tangle
ashen rock
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Ah, not forcing using the negative tarot card?

rough tangle
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Because that wouldn't ever increase the number of jokers you can carry

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yeah treat it like a normal negative

ashen rock
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Fair then

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Can allow for some pretty absurd deckbuilding

dawn mural
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temporary cards are like negative cards but they disappear like mr bones (or get auto sold)

rough tangle
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I was thinking of keeping the 'negative' name for those, since they have the same effect basically and less info for players to memorize

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That won't work with some tarots though

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Like Emperor, or Judgement

dawn mural
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i mean... you can still sell them

ashen rock
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By the way, I have to warn for the inevitable bug on negative emperor/judgement usage from hand with no slots available

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Call it a preemptive bug report

rough tangle
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All in all though I think that's a great idea

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PLUS

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I can add the negative tarots as rare tarots in the shop

ashen rock
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No polychrome tarots 😦

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Oh and make voucher give negative tarots/planets

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since we are on it

rough tangle
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Yeah the pattern one right

ashen rock
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I usually call them coupons, for some reason this is the coupon called "Voucher" for me

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I don't know why the "Voucher" term hasn't stuck with me

rough tangle
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I didn't call them coupons because I wanted to avoid the pronunciation deb8

ashen rock
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First time I hear of it

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Don't call them Leviosa.

hollow forge
dawn mural
hollow forge
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im using gold cards (with tickets) for gold making, its just too good

pliant socket
# ashen rock They might just need some kind of extra Tarot/Planet card slot, or even a "You g...

honestly with how much the game revolves around crystal ball, I feel like the RNG of whether you get that one early makes the game a bit swingy: I'd much rather just make crystal ball give you a sideboard tarot slot, essentially an extra joker slot that can only be used by tarot cards (you could even make that slot accept the "random joker" from whatever that tarot card is if you wanted to try balancing it out)

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this extra slot would make it more convenient to buy tarot cards from the shop instead of balancing the game around the free tarot card you get each round which may or may not be death

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the upgraded crystal ball could give a second slot instead of having to waste $20 on higher chances of rolling death

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don't get me wrong, the crystal ball feels nice, it's fun to get a random tarot each turn, but in NG you're just pretty much hoping to roll the crystal ball early or getting fucked

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planetarium, on the other hand, feels kinda pointless once you start going for 5 of a kinds anyway

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I know removing current crystal ball would require some rebalancing for NGs of multiple pluses, but eh

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for planetarium I'd probably just make 5ofakind appear once you successfully make one

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but this wall of text is completely off-topic for Worst Joker

night token
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I used marble once

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with some stone cards

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but it's not feeling good