🕹・game-discussion

[rancid gull]

All of the food jokers are annoying

[cloud sinew]

negative loyalty

[serene forge]

I love Square Joker

[gentle basalt]

so it does break win streak?

[wintry ice]

loyalty can be used for vessel emergencies

[rancid gull]

To sticker

[cloud sinew]

yeah

[signal brook]

Yuh

[exotic mica]

i call this build "the cafeteria"

[serene forge]

loyalty does a thing every 6 turns
throwback does nothing without bbc

[fringe nebula]

why is black deck so scary to play 😭

[cloud sinew]

but resetting doesnt count towards losses for calculating winrate

[gentle island]

1 last joker to gold stake

any guesses

[rancid gull]

Bean

[rotund igloo]

Obelisk

[serene forge]

glass joker

[signal brook]

Me when my joker doesn't exist after 5 rounds

[latent egret]

stone joker

[trail pier]

yes

[cloud sinew]

stone, bean, popcorn, ice cream, seltzer

[gentle island]

yup

[gentle island]

yup

[serene forge]

oof

[cloud sinew]

worst joker to sticker

not surprising its your last

[signal brook]

Gl bro

[gentle island]

yeah cant even get it debuffed like I did the others

[rancid gull]

My last joker was seltzer

[signal brook]

Painted deck w/o the paint

[trail pier]

i once tried to gold sticker gros michel and it died on the ante 8 big blind

[wet jackal]

Honestly c+ isn't proving to be that difficult

The only roadbumps I know are gonna happen are plasma deck and black deck

Plasma deck I've already finished, and black deck I've barely even touched

[signal brook]

L

[serene forge]

my last two were shortcut and cola

which i got in the same shop in ante 8 in a run

[ancient gyro]

my last two were

banner

joker

[cloud sinew]

happened to me lol, i had michel for 1 round and it fucking died

[gentle basalt]

congrats on plasma, that was the hardest for me
black deck is ok if you get a decent start, so just look for strong scaling jokers in the beginning

[tacit stream]

my last two were merry andy and wrathful joker

[wintry ice]

idr my last joker for my first c++

[gentle island]

same

[wintry ice]

but it was trio for my second

somehow

[exotic mica]

seltzer loyalty card combo goes insane

[rancid gull]

I don’t remember having that hard of a time with plasma gold

[ancient gyro]

mine was 6th sense cause I remember it not saving

[royal shale]

one of my last 3 was Canio and I remember getting it on abandoned deck, then finding Pareidolia, then ending up with a 1x Canio anyways because I didn't find ways to destroy cards anyways

[rotund igloo]

Me too

[signal brook]

I still haven't gotten a single natural perkeo after a year and a half

[cloud sinew]

its easy to play a bunch of runs and win once, it's very hard to win consistently

[wet jackal]

Dude I was really stupid because I tried plasma for my 2nd gold stake run directly after checkered because I didn't understand how it could possibly be difficult lmao

I learned very quickly

[rotund igloo]

And i bought it in previous shop

[serene forge]

I hate Plasma Deck

[cloud sinew]

plasma is the 2nd hardest deck in the game to winstreak imo

[trail pier]

im gonna try to see if i can get a decent gold stake winstreak

[ancient gyro]

it'll probably be harder if you try for a gold stake gauntlet for example

[cloud sinew]

it's deceptively difficult

[gentle basalt]

i feel like the numbers are off, you are telling me every arcana pack has > 0.1 scaling, but you only get 0.036? dont you see ~0.5 arcana shops per round, maybe you missed a x2

[tacit stream]

basically, once you reach purple stake you'll find out

[wintry ice]

oh my first last 2 were seance and astronomer

[ancient gyro]

or gold

[rancid gull]

Seance the best joker in the game

[exotic mica]

can i force bustop to scale faster?

[gentle basalt]

i think its the hardest, and very very unreliable
doc starts his speedruns with plasma too

[rancid gull]

With pair slop

[exotic mica]

ew

[signal brook]

😳

[wide ravine]

Can i ask something almost every run i have I always get legendary joker Whats even the odds of getting it because I feel like most every time I get one

[ancient gyro]

black deck is a huge outlier

[wet jackal]

Plasma is the 2nd hardest to winstreak but probably takes the longest to get the c+ gold stake win

Black deck you just die at the start, you can restart very quickly. Plasma deck you die in the middle of the run and hate yourself for it because it took a not insignificant amount of time to get there

[gentle basalt]

plasma is more imo

[rancid gull]

It’s like a .3 chance of finding a legendary fifth?

Right?

[trail pier]

i think i have a positive win rate on gold stake recently but i suck at getting winstreaks

[ancient gyro]

at least I can get a 5 win streak relatively quickly on plasma

[serene forge]

sandbagging

[exotic mica]

true

[rancid gull]

So pair slop lol

[tranquil cedar]

it was something like 1 in every 200 cards on arcana/spectral packs

[royal shale]

I feel like the odds here are off, jumbos get them 0.924% and regulars get them 76.4%?

[exotic mica]

ive been playing 2 pair and its only on +7 mult

[gentle basalt]

they meant 92.4% i think

[ancient gyro]

I haven't gotten one on an entire profile dedicated to it, 4 was my highest

[exotic mica]

did it get nerfed?

[tacit stream]

black deck starts tough due to -1 hand and its associated bad econ killing runs early.
plasma deck starts easy but the purple+ scaling hits hard in the later antes.

[rancid gull]

You’re probably winning way too fast then

What’s your joker line up?

[exotic mica]

ah i see

[cloud sinew]

that's get at least one, also that's a typo so it should be 92.4%

[signal brook]

Solution:

[serene forge]

yeah don't play two pair

[exotic mica]

this is my lineup lol

[signal brook]

Bye now

[serene forge]

okay well you're also skipping way too much

[tacit stream]

we're talking about gold stake here lol

[wet jackal]

And I'm a loser who resets my run if I don't get a decent start so it probably won't take me too long to get a gold stake win with it

[serene forge]

which is Not Good for scaling jonklers

[signal brook]

Just dont play gold stake idk man

Having fun is pretty cool yk

[tranquil cedar]

how to never lose at gs tutorial:
step 1: never play it

[exotic mica]

i skipped two blinds for rare tags

[royal shale]

ikik its at least one, just wanted the number corrected :3

[gentle basalt]

gold stake is pretty fun

[serene forge]

username checks out

[cloud sinew]

plasma i think is quicker than black to win with once because you can easily highroll within 5-10 attempts on plasma into a very good chips run or a decently high xmult build, black loses more often but earlier, but it's still very difficult for most of the game

[serene forge]

why

[signal brook]

Yup

[ancient gyro]

fun ≠ good argument back at it again 🥀

can't last an hour

[signal brook]

Do i know you??

[tranquil cedar]

this reaction is so hilarious to me idfk why

chess uncanny valley

[wet jackal]

The conversation started from completionist+ and completionist++, both literally requiring gold stake

[serene forge]

my argument imploding the moment someone in chat says "i play for fun"

[signal brook]

Go do regular C instead 👍👍

[ancient gyro]

wrong address

[serene forge]

most people do is the thing

[cloud sinew]

youre correct, ty.
it should be +.072x per shop from arcana packs

[serene forge]

thats kind of the point of yknow

[exotic mica]

hoping for the duo

[serene forge]

playing video games

[ancient gyro]

💀

[wet jackal]

My issue was always transitioning into xmult, not getting good chips.

[ancient gyro]

ok I was gonna say

[edgy whale]

is vampire a good joker or what?

[ancient gyro]

yeah

[serene forge]

thats one rare out of 20 and you're also losing econ and scaling potential

so probably not a great idea

[cloud sinew]

which some runs just dont need to do

[gentle basalt]

you can win with just chips, and probably its more reliable than trying to switch (the pivot kills you more often)

[wet jackal]

It's not the greatest joker of all time but it's still pretty good

[ancient gyro]

it is more reliable

[edgy whale]

only works well in the early game with midas mask I guess?

[ancient gyro]

what no

[exotic mica]

i lost cause selzter died 😭

[gentle basalt]

no...

[cloud sinew]

the pivot is needed to win a large proportion of runs

[ancient gyro]

it has a lot of applications, any tarot gen, enhancement gen, money jokers, etc

[wet jackal]

I thought that I had to pivot due to chips falling off over time meaning you wouldn't be able to reliably finish later antes

[wintry ice]

vampire doesn't need midas

[edgy whale]

How should I maximize its potential then?

[serene forge]

if you're looking for one plasma win you can probably just chipmaxx and it'll work but that won't work for consistency even if you put 2.4m vv aside

[gentle basalt]

just take any tarot cards you find to feed it

[tacit stream]

e.g. vaga also works well with vamp

[serene forge]

vampire is good especially if you have any tarot gen

losing enhancements is sad sometimes but you are getting xmult scaling after all

[ancient gyro]

find any tarot/enhancement gen, money is a decent secondary supplement

[rancid gull]

I fucking love vagabond

[exotic mica]

would vamp mask combo work better with a tarot gen?

[ebon maple]

2 decks to go

[edgy whale]

I fucking beg to differ

[ancient gyro]

oh

[serene forge]

rare steve guy W

[rancid gull]

Real?

[edgy whale]

only worth it with green deck

[rancid gull]

How is that rare

[ebon maple]

Man it was so hard to nebula

[gentle basalt]

vampire + midas mask is a free win

[rancid gull]

I always take w’s

[exotic mica]

it scales so fucking fast its insane

[ebon maple]

Cause vagabond is rare

[ancient gyro]

dismissing a good vampire synergy and a good joker overall

[ebon maple]

Badummm ts

[ancient gyro]

it's confusing

[wet jackal]

I still haven't figured out how to use it well

I know it's good but I'm too stupid to understand why

[exotic mica]

i hit like 400k on ante 6 with vamp midas mime and blueprint

[rancid gull]

You have some good pair slip

[gentle basalt]

its pretty annoying to use, the most annoying for me

[ebon maple]

4 tarots per round

[rancid gull]

Pair slop and waste all your money

Vagabond

Value

[ancient gyro]

it's downside isn't hard to get around at all

[edgy whale]

I mean I get no interest with vagabond i cant farm my econ man

[fringe nebula]

you get lucky cards hit

[ebon maple]

One econ joker or just get lucky

[fringe nebula]

so you're not exactly poor with vagabond

[rancid gull]

Yes but having a tarot generated with each hand

It’s so much value

[fringe nebula]

yeah

[royal shale]

and gold, and death, and temperance, and hermit...

[ebon maple]

Vagabond is super fan

[rancid gull]

And you have and an excuse to overspend

[ancient gyro]

fool/hermit/temp/gold/lucky/death/hungman/eor econ

[serene forge]

vagabond is econ because you get devils and deckfixing

[fringe nebula]

1 tarot for 1 hand is soo much value

[serene forge]

and also temperance and hermit

[fringe nebula]

and lucky cards

[fickle mesa]

and also the fool

which is basically money

[serene forge]

vagabond c9 is one of my favorite synergies

[fickle mesa]

also sellable tarot cards

[ebon maple]

The only deck where i dont take vagabond is nebula

[ebon maple]

Campfire sinergy goes brerr

[ancient gyro]

I still take it

[rancid gull]

Well, nebula sucks

[edgy whale]

talking about mult jokers, i find the constellation much better than vampire...

[fickle mesa]

on average if u sell every tarot card u get slightly more than golden joker

[ebon maple]

Nebulas the worst, i hate nebula

[fickle mesa]

tbh

[ancient gyro]

both are still good

[fickle mesa]

const is kinda worse than vamp if u dont have blue seals

[sterile zealot]

Won another game. Now all three games I’ve won involved Photochad… if you’re not running Photochad, what do you do if you’re just not quite scoring enough?

[fickle mesa]

with blue seals though yeah it mogs vamp

[ebon maple]

Const my goat scaling xmult

[granite heron]

counting the interest you lose out on from enabling vagabond?

[ebon maple]

U terms of defign

[edgy whale]

What about zodiac deck

[fringe nebula]

vampire is ok
you can feed it random junk and it will grow

[fickle mesa]

zodiac benefits vamp more than const

imo

[fringe nebula]

yeah

[edgy whale]

Very lame return on investment tbf

[rancid gull]

I find vampire fun

[fickle mesa]

so u want scaling cards

[ancient gyro]

const does worse in a worse situation than vamp if you play black deck or do win streaks enough times

[fringe nebula]

as if you'd always get good tarots from opening packs at the first place

think of it

[fickle mesa]

this means something like green joker, ride the bus, red card for mult

[sterile zealot]

Okay what if you’re on ante 6 and never found a good scaling card

[fickle mesa]

you need to find another way to scale

[ebon maple]

Gotta adapt

[fickle mesa]

you also wanna have really good money generation

[granite heron]

you die

[fringe nebula]

found blackboard at ante 8.............

jeez

[fickle mesa]

so that you can roll into those powerful scalers

[ancient gyro]

ppl don't value certain good things enough when they haven't seen true suffering

[sterile zealot]

Yeah, I generally like having an Econ joker. Though that last run had erosion too so I just abused immolation

[wet jackal]

Yeah but dude, you just do not have money at all and a majority of tarots aren't too huge

Suit changers never come in handy too often if you go for pair slop. Hierophant, empress, and lovers aren't very huge enhancements. There's a bunch of useless tarots (judgement unless its early, strength since pairs don't need it)

Like honestly idk, tarot cards are insanely good but they don't feel good enough to sacrifice your shops for

[rancid gull]

I’m going to attempt it…

[fickle mesa]

for example chad alone can scale almost as well as it does with photo

due to glass card strength

[ancient gyro]

cool

hf

gl

[granite heron]

ok thats an oversimplification but like there is a good chance you're cooked

you can hypothetically get big scores with just planets, glass & steel but it'll be really tough

[fickle mesa]

other retriggers can similarly scale

[fringe nebula]

yep, and people don't see value until they try to maximize the potential of each joker

[eager summit]

mmmmmm

[rancid gull]

The pair slop generator

[ancient gyro]

practicing for sts2 🗣️

[granite heron]

why didnt you blue space

[fringe nebula]

what is sts2

[granite heron]

slay the spire 2

[exotic mica]

what the fuck is this 😭

[wet jackal]

He might be going for high card actually, his blue seal generated a pluto and not a mercury

What an absolute chad

[ebon maple]

The thing is you dont have to sacrfice your shop

[ancient gyro]

harder balatro

slay the spire 2

[ebon maple]

Aldo deck fixing is crazy

[granite heron]

roguelike coming out to early access next month

[exotic mica]

yeah but mail in, its likely the required hand was a high card

[granite heron]

ur thinking of to do list

[wet jackal]

Wrong joker.

[exotic mica]

right right

my bad

[granite heron]

latro

[rancid gull]

Badlatro

[fickle mesa]

the thing is the remaining tarot cards are really really strong and also if youve got vagabond you dont need to stick with pairs

vagabond provides the deckfixing to make stuff like 4oak or even goofy shut like flush house viable

[granite heron]

how much longer now... my... BALATRO

[fickle mesa]

you can do ante 1 flush house with early vaga lmao

[ebon maple]

Super viable

[rancid gull]

I love being broke

[ancient gyro]

think of the last run where you won with absolutely zero deck modifications

[exotic mica]

hellooooo pair slop

[granite heron]

the only thing about vagabond that i dislike is when i sell a tarot card and accidentally get too rich to qualify for a tarot

[royal shale]

suit changers/lovers are usable for castle and blackboard in pairslop. strength can be used for econ (parking, rebate, midas) that counteract "sacrificing" shops and also wee, fixing for runner, and HRT.

[fickle mesa]

"here, win" ass build

[granite heron]

hrt??? we got estrogen in balatro now???

[exotic mica]

lol

[royal shale]

:3

[eager summit]

finally

[granite heron]

ok but like actually what does hrt stand for here

[quaint stag]

the dih..

[gleaming urchin]

i mean you can change kings into queens and vice versa so

[royal shale]

its a typo of HTR (Hit The Road) that I made often enough that I just call it HRT now

[granite heron]

who the fuck uses hit the road

[quaint stag]

hormone rormone therapy

[granite heron]

true

[terse vale]

meeeee!

[ancient gyro]

replacement

[quaint stag]

no

[ancient gyro]

tromone

[fickle mesa]

its really strong

[weary whale]

New challenge mode idea; Go Big or Go Home

All hands must be 3OAK rank or higher to score

Everything else stay the same except for the planet cards for uncorking ranks are unavailable

[fickle mesa]

if fixed towards

[quaint stag]

i call it hormone rormone tormone

rhymes with grug

[fickle mesa]

spam 3oak

[granite heron]

to turn a king into a queen you would need to strength it ummm 13 times?

[royal shale]

nobody but its possible to fix for it if vaga is giving a bunch of strength

[gleaming urchin]

death exists

[quaint stag]

flush spam anf call it a day

[ancient gyro]

htr is strong but it has some awkward score timing and conflicts with some spam builds

[fickle mesa]

mhm

[weary whale]

Yeah I meant for it to be an easier one

[ancient gyro]

my 7th c++ profile sort of shares a similar idea

[quaint stag]

htr is like rebate where the card you need to get value from the joker does not fucking show up until you're out of discards

[cloud sinew]

to get up to 0.3x per round on average you'd need to be getting 2.28 enhancements from the shop slots every round (as you get 0.72 enhancements from arcanas every shop, on average)
that means seeing ~1.66 enhancement tarots in the shop, which you would need to roll 5.81 times on average for (or see 11.62 cards in shop, which is relevant for overstock/+)

[granite heron]

i mean among the "encourages fixing for" jokers its gotta be on the weaker side right?

...hm. maybe not. it'd be worse than like, baron. and other than that i could only think of like triboulet and idol as stronger fixing payoffs but those are Different

[quaint stag]

rebate was on aces and i didn't see any of my aces until my last discard which was all 4 of my aces

god bless balatro

[fickle mesa]

okay hit the road is better than all three of those

and only one is particularly close

[cloud sinew]

idol and baron are horrible, and it's probably about the same as triboulet

they both have similar downsides

dies to plant, dies to bad draws

[ancient gyro]

I don't have enough experience among the two to rate what's higher among trib and htr

[fickle mesa]

both expect a certain amount of tarot luck

[fickle mesa]

you mean you havent played 100 rounds with a legendary and a rare joker

[cloud sinew]

100 rounds is like 5 games

thats not much

[cosmic sun]

well HTR is like, discards

[ancient gyro]

one is 2pair/3oak on card planet scoring
one requires rank mitosis to play pairs or some easy equivalent on essentially a fewer amount of hands

[cosmic sun]

Trib is "I want retriggers" which is already a strike against it

[cloud sinew]

ive used HTR for 19 rounds on mobile, and triboulet for 143 rounds on mobile

[ancient gyro]

I don't think I had a lot of retrigger builds with my trib runs

[fickle mesa]

yeah tbh i mean trib wants retriggers but like

an x4 on pair base mult can sometimes be alright on its own

[ancient gyro]

I like the different hand type approach

[fickle mesa]

sometimes trib can be a +mult joker

[ancient gyro]

o

[cosmic sun]

the pair calls

[cloud sinew]

triboulet for 361 rounds on my main PC profile
HTR for 144 rounds on my main PC profile
so I've used triboulet for 504 rounds total on my main profiles, and HTR for 163 rounds

[fickle mesa]

am i insane here for saying you shouldve discarded

[cloud sinew]

i havent used HTR much at all lol

[terse vale]

no!

[ancient gyro]

I had a htr arc early on in black++

[terse vale]

I was gonna say it too

[fickle mesa]

im not i already know

i dont know why i asked

[ancient gyro]

yeah

[cloud sinew]

its my 7th least used joker on PC and my least used joker on mobile

[fickle mesa]

lilo when were u using baron

[cloud sinew]

uhhh

[ancient gyro]

4 pairs, 1 with 30 chips is enough to clear 600

[cloud sinew]

wdym

[ancient gyro]

wrong ping

[fickle mesa]

if its ur least used joker on mobile that means u used baron more than it

[ancient gyro]

two c++ runs I've had zero baron use cases 🥀

[cloud sinew]

yes

[fickle mesa]

im whitestakevestigating

[cloud sinew]

lemme check my baron stats

[fickle mesa]

i guess u probably picked it up for c++ purposes

[cosmic sun]

I found a wasteful voucher

Lowkey where my rebate

[grave magnet]

I FINNALLY GOT MY FIRST SOUL!

[fickle mesa]

lowkirkenuinely where your rebate

[ebon maple]

CRAZY SEED

Relatively

[weary whale]

Joker Ideas (These are just for fun and came up with on the spot, may not be viable or balanced)

Magnifying Glass; See the next two cards in your hand before each discard

Leftovers; Unused hands & discards from the big blind are added to the boss blind

Jewelers; All enhanced diamond cards give 1.5x their effect

Valentines; All enhanced heart cards give 1.5x their effect

Golfer; All enhanced club cards give 1.5x their effect

Excavator; All enhanced spade cards give 1.5x their effect

Copycat; Copies the effects of the joker to the left and right

[fickle mesa]

take hermit

[cosmic sun]

lowjokirkenuinely

[ebon maple]

But who do i take out for dolen ticket

Scary face ig rigjt?

[calm furnace]

Jj 🥰🥰🥰

[terse vale]

hermit gives fool value.. soul doesnnt

hmmmm

[calm furnace]

its been like 4 or 5 wins everytime i find Jj

[vestal copper]

here,win

[weary whale]

I’d move Flash card before Square Joker. More mult there

[calm furnace]

it was the boss that shuffles cards

[weary whale]

Ah

[calm furnace]

also didnt matter i scored 1m

campfire was at x8

[ebon maple]

Do i takee it?

[calm furnace]

blue and purple seals made the run free

[cloud sinew]

mobile: 199 rounds for baron, 96th most used joker
steam: 825 rounds for baron, 51st most used joker

[grave magnet]

I got Canio from the soul. It also gave me the clairvoyance achievement and the legendary achievement

[cosmic sun]

Half on its way to show up right before The Psychic every time:

[cloud sinew]

i have done endless on my main profile on steam

when i was doing crimson bean

[ancient gyro]

o

[ebon maple]

Help

[calm furnace]

i need to do one naneinf run on my main profile but man that doesnt seem fun

[cloud sinew]

but on mobile ive not really touched endless, my best hand is e30

[calm furnace]

its the only thing missing from my profile

[fickle mesa]

woulda been better to get hermit im tellin ya

[grave magnet]

thank you for the advice. I'm also sayin that i got 2 achievements off that 1 card pick

[cloud sinew]

i had this run today where baron contributed meaningfully

[fickle mesa]

7 dollars better obviously

[ebon maple]

Its his first soul

Shhh

[fickle mesa]

with speculative fool value

[bold crystal]

Worst part is naneinf resets your top score

[ebon maple]

What

[fickle mesa]

im definitely not saying this for ragebaiting purposes

[grave magnet]

is this gold stake?

[ebon maple]

Do i take the sock?

[cloud sinew]

yes

[fickle mesa]

tbf a lategame baron isnt the worst if a scary crimson heart or vv comes up

[ebon maple]

Thats what i mean, he is new he will believe

[sand lily]

Probably over DNA or gold ticket

[fickle mesa]

although ive never used it that way

[ancient gyro]

baron fist is like the most realistic gs scenario I can think of

[ebon maple]

I mean golden is free money, and the dna i am copying ny poly queen

[cloud sinew]

there is a rental in the image and you can see the gold stake on my jokers and the blind

[cloud sinew]

no

unless youre going for endless

[ebon maple]

I am trying to

[fringe nebula]

don't, it will ruin your joker stats 😭

[ebon maple]

But i will have to find a trib

[grave magnet]

dna plus square joker plus wee joker sounds like a godly combo.

[cloud sinew]

nah, just find Idol

[fringe nebula]

happened to me

[ebon maple]

True forgot about him

[cloud sinew]

square doesnt really do anything there

[ebon maple]

@cloud sinew so do i sell the dna? Rn i am copying a poly gold gold seal queen

Golden is too much money

To pass on

[cloud sinew]

i would probably drop chad

[ebon maple]

Chad? Then my score would plummet no? Until i find an idol

[cloud sinew]

theyre poly

[ebon maple]

True, also flush five is strong mult

[exotic mica]

is spamming pairs the best way to scale wee?

[sterile zealot]

I finally won a game without Photochad abuse (erosion is so good omg)

[ebon maple]

Will drop chad then

Thanks lilo

[molten thicket]

wha

[fickle mesa]

ideally you throw whatever has the most 2s

[molten thicket]

i don't have showman though??

[vestal copper]

bro

[fickle mesa]

unless u have chad then u play as few 2s as possible while still playing all of them

[vestal copper]

i got chad-photo-chad almost back to back

[molten thicket]

does the showman effect last the whole shop

[cloud sinew]

what do you mean "last"

[exotic mica]

endure

[cloud sinew]

if you sell it then it should stop working immediately but there's a bug where sometimes it stays for the whole run.

[molten thicket]

i sold it like 3 rerolls ago

[sterile zealot]

Opinions on riffraff?

[wet jackal]

Yes but it's not anywhere near as important as with most other hands

With pairs, the value from those tarots comes from the jokers you pick up, but otherwise they really do not do all that much

[fickle mesa]

oh my god showman could nerf you even buying it for dagger value

[fickle mesa]

powerful

[sterile zealot]

wait what hrt? Balatro is woke?

[fickle mesa]

thats a far scroll

[cloud sinew]

you had bean when you had showman and then sold showman, so bean can appear multiple times now without showman

[sterile zealot]

Someone replied to it

[molten thicket]

oh

[cloud sinew]

its a bug

[fickle mesa]

oh nvm

[molten thicket]

interesting

[fickle mesa]

thats a far scroll

[wet jackal]

Goated joker, absolutely love it

Falls off after you get a proper build going, but finding it within the early stages of the run sets you up for success more than any other joker you could find, even something like perkeo

[fickle mesa]

perkeo is really powerful early game due to providing you with an instant 10 dollars

[cloud sinew]

@pale wolf have you seen the fool + emperor bug that acts like the showman bug

[wet jackal]

So real

[pale wolf]

yea

[cloud sinew]

its really weird

[pale wolf]

it sets a similar flag as showman

[exotic mica]

yellow deck

[vestal copper]

oh im fucked

i have an eternal pareidolia and its the plant

[cloud sinew]

i didnt have showman at all this run btw

[ebon maple]

Do i take trading? I dont usually do endless sorry if its a dumb question

[molten thicket]

woah

[cloud sinew]

its completely vanilla too

[exotic mica]

apparently if you reroll a lot it can mess with jokers reappearing

[ebon maple]

What the hell

[cloud sinew]

it's to do with showman

[exotic mica]

but you didnt have showman?

[ebon maple]

Like it will be deck trimming

But with the money i think it will be easier right?

[ebon maple]

4D showman

[calm furnace]

what stats the wins?

[sterile zealot]

didn’t people use to say perkeo best legendary? I like triboulet more

[fringe nebula]

blueprint baron mime on your most used jokers

[cloud sinew]

the bug that i showed is because fool + emperor, which is a similar issue.

• there was a chariot in the pack ->
• i used chariot from fool, so the game removed the flag that said it couldnt spawn ->
• i used an emperor which spawned a chariot, despite there being a chariot in the pack, because using the chariot from fool made the game think it was allowed to spawn.

[ebon maple]

Perkeo is like most versatile goat

[ebon maple]

Crazy

[cloud sinew]

its very niche

ive only seen it once

ive seen the showman bug many times though

[vestal copper]

the luckiest luchador ever

[ebon maple]

Nice

[ebon maple]

What is that

[cloud sinew]

if you buy a joker when you have showman, then sell showman, the joker you bought when you had showman can appear

this applies to all cards that you buy with showman and then sell showman

[ebon maple]

Oh thats usefull actually

[cloud sinew]

it makes showman actually kinda useful for ante 8 without making your runs worse as a whole

as you can have the showman effect for just the things you want to get

[wet jackal]

I'm assuming it's because showman adds an extra instance of a card to the pool without removing it?

[vestal copper]

its the eye and i found an another fucking luchador

this seed is so rigged

i found like 5 possible photochads and like 4 such good luchadors

[wet jackal]

Actually wtf goes on in the code for it to only be cards you bought while you have showman

[willow frost]

ok that makes showman kinda really good

does it work if you sell showman and exit to main menu or nah

[night turret]

FUCK YEAH

WE ARE SO THROWING THIS RUN

[vestal copper]

[cloud sinew]

i dont think so

[molten thicket]

i wonder why my money becomes smaller when i close + reopen my game

[night turret]

The reverse

[cloud sinew]

but im not sure.

[willow frost]

fair

consumables?

[cloud sinew]

it works for consumables yes

[willow frost]

cool

[cloud sinew]

so if you have showman, buy a justice, then sell showman

then justice can appear

but once you have it again it blocks itself from appearing again

[willow frost]

ohh ok

so you can get one extra copy of jokers/consumables?

[tacit quail]

+1, Pareidolia DONE

149/150. Glass Joker remains...

[willow frost]

sick

[cloud sinew]

only if you buy them when you have showman, then sell showman

[willow frost]

thats pretty cool

[cloud sinew]

ive used it once before with observatory

[cosmic sun]

Rolling down for Vagabond and seeing Duo Vampire at the end is a depressing sight

[night turret]

Oof good luck

[tacit quail]

it's entirely unstickered

i'm cooked

[stone shell]

at the bright side glass enhancements themselves are pretty powerful

[vestal copper]

glass is not a bad one to have left out

[cosmic sun]

is it sad that glass for me has been stronger than glass joker itself?

[wet jackal]

Glass is stupidly powerful but losing my playing cards feels horrid so I basically never use them even if I know I should

[ancient gyro]

i don't have enough anecdotal experience to reply to this

[willow frost]

its fine i guess

[spark kernel]

Chat why is this image invisible

[willow frost]

theyre both pretty strong

[cosmic sun]

I treat justice like a hail mary instead of a really important card to keep

[wet jackal]

Exactly the same

[ancient gyro]

free deck fixing

put it on low rank cards

or 6

[fringe nebula]

perkeo runs are always fucking entertaining

[meager narwhal]

Pareidolia for econ or voucher?

[halcyon shoal]

Is yellow deck or blue deck better for win streaks, I kinda can’t decide, yellow makes early game very consistent but blue makes all stages of the game more consistent

[cloud sinew]

blue

[ancient gyro]

blue

[fringe nebula]

blue

[cloud sinew]

as someone who has done winstreaks, blue is definitely WAY more consistent

[wet jackal]

I'm still not sure if having it in your played hand without actually having it score does that

I've done it a ton and it never breaks so I just assume it cannot work like that

[willow frost]

yeah it dont work like that

[cloud sinew]

it can't break unless it scores

[wet jackal]

Yeah that sucks

[ancient gyro]

in case of emergency
break glass

[halcyon shoal]

Thats what I thought, Im on a 5 game win streak rn

[cloud sinew]

i prefer it that way

[meager narwhal]

Yeah that's why you score it.

[ancient gyro]

same

[meager narwhal]

Bump because yes

[wet jackal]

I imagine it could be annoying if it didn't work the way it does but damn

[wind bobcat]

Is Balatro worth 10$?

[meager narwhal]

Yes

[cloud sinew]

absolutely

I've bought it 3 times and I have over 1000 hours

[meager narwhal]

I'd pay $20

Is it on switch?

Oh hell yeah

[terse vale]

100%

[exotic mica]

yes bro

[cloud sinew]

It's worse on switch than on mobile because it doesnt have mobile's UI as an option

but it's very good still

[meager narwhal]

I have it on PC and mobile, I'm playing it at work right now

[exotic mica]

wayyyy better on pc imo

switch is so ass

[wet jackal]

Balatro is worth 60. Probably more. But localthunk is an absolute chad indie dev who doesn't want to gouge players wallets

[meager narwhal]

But I need opinions because I'm bad

[exotic mica]

i downloaded it on the work computer 😭

[cloud sinew]

that's fair

[meager narwhal]

[night turret]

Shocker I lost lmao

[meager narwhal]

Now, para? Or discard

[cloud sinew]

it's okay to disagree with people btw, if people disagree with you that doesn't mean youre wrong. it's just important to make sure youre listening to what people say

[cloud sinew]

i would take the buffoon

[exotic mica]

para

[night turret]

Para

[cloud sinew]

you need scoring rn

parei is just more econ

[meager narwhal]

Hm

If it goes wrong I take para anyway

You're a genius

[exotic mica]

oooh yeah rip a buffoon

[wet jackal]

Chicot best joker in the game

[night turret]

I agree

[meager narwhal]

Ye

[exotic mica]

unless you get that photochad

[sterile zealot]

are most boss blinds really that bad

I like trib more

[exotic mica]

verdant leaf

[molten thicket]

good run

[cosmic sun]

Rick solos

[night turret]

When you are building towards something specific

Yes it can

[wet jackal]

(The joke is that chicot is the worst legendary)

[night turret]

And you can’t really pivot

[molten thicket]

closest ive gotten to a 2nd random seed naneinf

[cloud sinew]

most runs die to specific bosses / are vulnerably to specific bosses

[meager narwhal]

Me disagreeing with people means they're wrong because I'm always right because my grandma said I was the smartest cookie in the whole wide world like 16 years ago and grandmas never lie

[cloud sinew]

chicot is definitely not the worst legendary for ante 8

[night turret]

That goes to the yellow one

[cloud sinew]

that's triboulet

it works in the least builds and is the most vulnerable to bosses

for ante 8 gold stake, generally, Yorick > Canio > Chicot > Perkeo > Triboulet

[molten thicket]

trib isn't baddd per se its just that the "meta" isn't suitable for trib to work in

[cloud sinew]

it's not bad, it's like B+, it's just the worst legendary.

[wet jackal]

I will accept no yorick slander

[exotic mica]

question is a full legendary build really that good or are legendaries better at building up jokers?

[spring granite]

I was going to say I personally find Perkeo less useful in my builds for ante 8 runs

[night turret]

And I will

[meager narwhal]

Gotta be the worst rare, I have never liked obelisk

[spring granite]

Trib has given me enough value to push it a bit above him

[molten thicket]

god i'm so tired that high score run took me like 4 hours

[cloud sinew]

canio and perkeo have very strong synergy, chicot/yorick/triboulet dont really do much there

[willow frost]

several people are typing

[night turret]

Some of these people here glaze it

I see no value for it

[spring granite]

even if he's objectively more situational

[cosmic sun]

How do you still have no money, you should have taken Parei just to get out of the hole you were in

[cloud sinew]

i would take sly joker

[terse vale]

I need to ask do you actually think its unusable or do you just not like playing with it

[sterile zealot]

That’s what I thought, literally a do nothing

[terse vale]

tru

[cloud sinew]

obelisk is top 5 rares

[royal shale]

obe is top 20 jokers :)

[sterile zealot]

The problem is, you get obelisk too early and then you run out of hands or you get obelisk too late and you don’t have time to scale

[spring granite]

he prevents any boss blind from taking out your build. He does a lot in gold stake runs.

[cloud sinew]

"when you run out of hands" you shouldn't be running out of hands

[terse vale]

dont run out of hands :?

[muted phoenix]

Just had a Joker idea, 3D glasses joker: it causes all jokers to the left and right of it to affect chips and mult respectively, for example, a stuntman would give 250 mult if on the red side, and baron will multiply chips by 1.5 for every king when on the blue side

[cloud sinew]

you should get your highest hand to 12-15 and then play anything but that hand

[upbeat fog]

I JUST GOT A NAT NEGATIVE REBATE THIS RUN IS GOING TO THE MOON

[cloud sinew]

you should also not make high card your highest played hand

[wet jackal]

Ok let me spell it out

The duo is probably one of the best xmult jokers in the game with how free its activation condition is.

And yorick equals it after 23 cards discarded.

And then it scales past it

[exotic mica]

just spam straights like 14-15 times and then never again

[sterile zealot]

If I have like 5 pairs then see obelisk then I’ll probably run out of other hands to play? And if I have 12-15 I’m probably on ante 6+ which means it’s a bit late to scale Obelisk? I don get it

[terse vale]

straights is crazy

[spring granite]

fun, but insanely broken

[cosmic sun]

12 pairs is like a few rounds

[terse vale]

nonono

[cosmic sun]

smh

[terse vale]

you keep playing pair

once you get obelisk

[muted phoenix]

With the right partner jokers

[terse vale]

get it to 12 - 15

save obelisk scaling for later

[spring granite]

pairs go crazy huh

[terse vale]

also its never late to scale obelisk

it scales CRAZY fast

[cloud sinew]

12 pairs is a few rounds of playing hands. if you have 12-15 on your highest by ante 6 then what were you doing with your other hands?
ante 6 is 15-18 rounds, you must have been winning like every single round with one hand, or you were playing like 3 different hands which you shouldnt really be doing

[terse vale]

bri

[cloud sinew]

<@&1133519078540185692>

[bold hamlet]

Obelisk is awesome dude

[ebon maple]

So sad i didnt find the idol : (

[sterile zealot]

get out

[ebon maple]

Also not finding the third glass card

[willow frost]

if you can get it ante 6 you can get it to over x3 easily

[ebon maple]

Greed defeated me

[exotic mica]

should you build around obelisk or is it complementary?

[serene forge]

ive seen someone take an ante 7 obelisk and still get it to over x4 by the end of the game

[willow frost]

yeah

[sterile zealot]

(Being unable to find my full house so using extra hands as discards)

[willow frost]

dont look for fucking full houses lmao

[terse vale]

why would you neeeeed full house

[cloud sinew]

most runs are pair runs if youre playing optimally

[serene forge]

I would start by not playing full houses like ever

[bold hamlet]

If I’m ante 3-5 I pick it up if my scoring jokers are good enough just avoid playing pairs until you want to get the obelisk running

[serene forge]

they're not good

[sterile zealot]

I just ran a full house build which did take a bit of deck fixing but I had trading card which made it easy

[willow frost]

alright good nice

[serene forge]

sorry not full houses

[exotic mica]

i mean full house is good, its consistent to get and its a high scoring pair-based hand

[terse vale]

atp go 3oak

[serene forge]

full hourses

[meager narwhal]

What 😭

[royal shale]

if it made it easy then why did you struggle to find it

[cosmic sun]

Statements are being made in chat

[terse vale]

its true!

[sterile zealot]

(I kept getting Earth)

[willow frost]

with obelisk just play the hands given to you, dont actively look for things

[meager narwhal]

Bro I didn't see the eternal, this run was going so well too lmao

[serene forge]

full house is much less consistent than 3oak and scales almost identically

[wet jackal]

It's simply true, do you understand how quickly it scales

[sterile zealot]

It was like a couple of times during the boss blinds because j got really unlucky

[cloud sinew]

full house is not consistent to get, and it's not a high scoring pair-based hand.
it scales at +2 +25, which is only 5 chips higher than 3oak and only 1 mult higher than pair.
it's also significantly less consistent than 3oak and pair

[meager narwhal]

If you've already fixed your deck it's useless

[sterile zealot]

The only reason I did full house was because the game kept handing me earth

[rotund igloo]

I hate obelisk. Might have to change my name to #1 obelisk hater

[cloud sinew]

you should never have fully fixed your deck within ante 8 unless you have like bp+bs+perkeo

or some extreme scenario like that

[sterile zealot]

Anyways I am an erosion enjoyer, erosion best joker fight me

[cloud sinew]

hologram is meta so no

[willow frost]

if you havent fixed it to literally all the same card youre fine lol

[sterile zealot]

what why? it’s anti deck fixing

[rich mauve]

"I love hate obelisk" => "I didn't get invited"

[bold hamlet]

Now that I’m thinking about it obelisk may be top 5 rares

[sterile zealot]

I like fixing my deck

[royal shale]

Deck fixing is weak compared to deck bloating

[cloud sinew]

it scales incredibly quickly, also pair is meta which isnt affected much by deck bloat

[serene forge]

I hate Full Hourse

[terse vale]

sometimes deckfixing doesnt matter

[royal shale]

assuming you bloat it with better cards than there already are in the deck

[exotic mica]

if you want xmult scaling obelisk might be like top 5 but its not top 3

[meager narwhal]

Yeah, .1x per hand. Not even fully, decent progress will make obelisk a lot less usable.

[rich mauve]

who cares about deckfixing when you have x5 mult

[cloud sinew]

obelisk is 0.2x per hand

[serene forge]

non argument

[terse vale]

[meager narwhal]

Oh then yeah that's kinda bananas, I was wrong

[serene forge]

you're not fixing your deck that hard by like ante 4

[cloud sinew]

even at 0.1x obelisk would be good

[wet jackal]

Honestly if I wanted to go for a more wacky non-meta large hand, I'd go with 4oak, not full house

Deck fixing for 4oak is far easier than deck fixing for full house, all while giving better scaling and an extra playing card left in hand.

[bold hamlet]

Yeah +0.6x mult every round is really good

[serene forge]

obelisk scales faster than a yorick or madness fyi

[terse vale]

[cloud sinew]

deck fixing for 4oak is not far easier, it's harder to fix for 4oak than for full house, it's just that fixing for full house is very close to fixing for 4oak and 4oak scales WAY faster relative to the difference in deckfixing

[rotund igloo]

Yeah but I gotta put in work with other jokers

[sterile zealot]

here’s a fun ante 8 setup, bull is funny because I got soda + economy tag early

[serene forge]

oh you poor baby

[cosmic sun]

I like how all my last wins have Vampire, Obelisk, Yorick, and Campfire

[royal shale]

if you use your brain, obelisk very often gets to like the 5x-7x range

[meager narwhal]

Mobile is so janky lmao

[cosmic sun]

noticing

And Steel Joker

[terse vale]

yea its funny when this happens

[wet jackal]

Fair enough

[meager narwhal]

Oh wait I can check blinds

[terse vale]

ENOUGH WITH THE YELLOW HANDS 😭 /j

[cosmic sun]

I like steel joker, the consistency of it and the support of steels is kinda nice.

[exotic mica]

okay thinking about it obelisk is hella good

alternate pair/3oak and boom

[untold onyx]

The one time I decide to play face cards I get a NAT NEG RIDE THE BUS

[sterile zealot]

From my small sample size of 5 wins, 60% of them have been photochad. I am deeply repentant

[untold onyx]

What is this silly business

[exotic mica]

obelisk run time

[cosmic sun]

You are the usual suspect I fear

[sterile zealot]

wdym? Cuz I just started playing or

[terse vale]

blue joker

[cloud sinew]

the past 3 obelisk runs ive shown:

• x7.4 at the showdown blind
• x6.2 "
• x10.6 "

[cosmic sun]

It's usually photochad users sayign something good sucks yes

[exotic mica]

okay correct me if im wrong but could you not just go pair-3oak-pair-3oak the entire time?

[royal shale]

lol. lmao, even

[cloud sinew]

no

if theyre tied they both reset it

[exotic mica]

ohhhh

[umbral coyote]

Any idea on how I can live this

[cloud sinew]

if obelisk worked like that it would be top 5 jokers in the game

[terse vale]

how does it even get to this

[serene forge]

I have several questions

[cloud sinew]

by taking 2 showmen

[umbral coyote]

Guys it was bad

[sterile zealot]

I’m not saying obelisk sucks, I now agree it’s good. I just found it awkward to play because of the issue of being annoying early game and the understandable paranoia of taking it late game.

[cosmic sun]

Pair as Obelisk hand -> Two pair, 3oak, HC

And anything else tbh

[terse vale]

hold R

I mean

uhh

go to menu and restart

[wet jackal]

Most of my gold stake runs don't use photochad, I ain't that lucky and honestly picking up either pieces in anticipation of the other isn't worth it most of the time

The only time I ever get it is either picking up one of the 2 pieces in early game, or picking up chad so I can get extra procs on some other playing card a different joker likes

[cloud sinew]

obelisk early is just like most xmults, it doesnt really contribute much as +mult is far stronger.
obelisk is something you plan to use later, keeping it until it gets to 10+ (12-15 if youre playing pairs as your highest)

[umbral coyote]

Nobody questioning the 6/5 jokers 😭

[cloud sinew]

negative invis

[ancient gyro]

7 of these poker hands will crash obbylicks

[cosmic sun]

aight riff raff

nvm it vanished

[ancient gyro]

🗣️

[rotund igloo]

Riff raff gonna give you Cavendish

[serene forge]

here win

[serene forge]

here win

[wet jackal]

A banana vanishing instantly is better than a banana refusing to do so

[ancient gyro]

depends

[willow frost]

gros michel my goat

[cosmic sun]

Speak of the devil

[ancient gyro]

love that song

[cosmic sun]

Though needle is next I may just perish

nvm we live

[exotic mica]

anyone have a seed for first shop obelisk?

[ancient gyro]

why first shop specifically

[wet jackal]

It's a riff raff start

It might as well automatically be considered better for the banana to die instantly

[ancient gyro]

if only that's how the game works

[cosmic sun]

That banana would have been nice to have, I found bus later than usual

[ancient gyro]

almost died to needle

hence my keyword

[meager narwhal]

Holy peak

[upbeat fog]

Just in time

[exotic mica]

imo crazy is the best complimenting joker for a build

paired with telescope and observatory

[ancient gyro]

🦗

[sterile zealot]

Does chad work well enough with hiker to be worth taking

[terse vale]

yeah

[ancient gyro]

sure but it's not a necessity for straight builds

[terse vale]

also spaceman 🤤 looks good here

[exotic mica]

its better with deckfixing late game

[sterile zealot]

good idea, since I’m spamming straights. But also I’ve learned that 1 in 4 never hits

[ancient gyro]

that's not really deckfixing

[sterile zealot]

stupid wheel

[terse vale]

it will!

any straight level at all is very good

[sterile zealot]

wheel is traumatizing

[ancient gyro]

since you can spam straights

[exotic mica]

dude i hit wheel 4x in a row once

[willow frost]

nah spaceman 1 in 4 hits like twice as often as wheel 1 in 4

dont worry about it

[terse vale]

when its highcard sure

[exotic mica]

1 in 4 chance for a 1 in 4 chance

[meager narwhal]

LET'S GOOOOO, FINALLY DONE WITH BLUE STAKE BABYYYYY

Kinda

[exotic mica]

it is NOT over

mfs be like "im gonna win" bro the verdant leaf is coming

[meager narwhal]

The humble boss reroll

[exotic mica]

whats the worst boss blind

imo either verdant or violet

[willow frost]

verdant you can win without selling anything like half the time

[ebon condor]

verdant is usually not too bad from my experience

plus its kinda just easier heart cuz if you do gotta sell something at least you get to pick

obv eternals but

[twin rune]

Violet Vessel and Crimson Heart are the most liable to kill the average gold stake run

[exotic mica]

how can i improve this

[wary acorn]

probably toast. maybe if you hex todd

[lyric flame]

for the pair haters out there, I ran the numbers (Don't think I made a mistake) and there is an 89% chance that an opening hand has a pair in it.

EDIT: 95% if you have hand size up by 1

[exotic mica]

i fixed it

hex on juggler 👍

[heady narwhal]

what happened with the hex

[wary acorn]

fire

[exotic mica]

i lost

[heady narwhal]

i want to see the rest of the digits

[lyric flame]

what do you mean rest of digits?

idk man pop it into a calculator and see what you get

[spring granite]

lucky cards

[sterile zealot]

I lost cuz I misclicked 😔

I wanted to play a straight but only played four cards

[serene forge]

yo burnt jonkler

now you just need like bus or something

[serene forge]

bruh

[serene forge]

crimson heart worst thing ever

[ancient gyro]

that's better

[cosmic sun]

Uneventful

[sterile zealot]

Crimson heart is just a buffed verdant leaf

[ancient gyro]

nothing ever happens

[ancient gyro]

it's the complete opposite of leaf

[ebon condor]

but they affect you in very similar ways

[ancient gyro]

like what

[cloud sinew]

ew ai generated pfp

and using wolfram alpha

[willow frost]

wdym wolfram alphas goated

[ancient gyro]

huh

[ebon condor]

they both get rid of a joker for you

[ancient gyro]

thats not

[ebon condor]

its just for leaf its not forced, and you get to choose

[ancient gyro]

how leaf works

leaf doesn't really do anything a majority of the time

[ebon condor]

leaf's worst case scenario is just like normal crimson heart

thats the point they were making

[serene forge]

people talk about acorn doing nothing but nobody talks about leaf doing nothing

[cloud sinew]

most builds arent on-score builds, and if it is an on-score build you should be planning for leaf

[cloud sinew]

worst-case leaf is 100% death

[ebon condor]

well worst case scenario is all eternals but

[ancient gyro]

that's not a worst case

[native cape]

not every day you see a nat negative michel

[ancient gyro]

you don't sell shit most of the time

[ebon condor]

all eternals with on score

[cloud sinew]

yeah

[cosmic sun]

Crimson hurts the typical scoring setup the hardest tho cause it can hit your important jokers

[ebon condor]

yeah

[cloud sinew]

people mainly die to leaf when they have madness and don't plan for leaf

[ebon condor]

that's the point

[serene forge]

like the guy with eternal ancient joker and 4 eternal copy jokers dying to leaf

[ancient gyro]

how is that a direct comparison to crimsuh

[ebon condor]

leaf gets rid of a joker sometimes, compared to heart which does it always

and you don't get to pick

so heart is almost always going to be worse, excluding situations with eternals

[meager narwhal]

Cryptid the king or gamble on the wraith

[sterile zealot]

how do you do a madness build without just leaving the other slots empty and 🤲 PRAYING

[burnt sigil]

can somebody explain what just happened

[cloud sinew]

dont go for on-score with madness unless you have leaf defense

[vestal copper]

campfire is unironically fucking broken wow

[royal shale]

at black stake and above there’s eternal jokers which won’t get destroyed by it, that’s how

[serene forge]

when you have an 8.5x mult joker you probably don't need onscored effects

[ancient gyro]

it's been 2-3 years

🔥

[serene forge]

you scored naneinf mult which makes this happen

i think

[ancient gyro]

I mean

[sterile zealot]

8.5x mult without other jokers is still death tho

[burnt sigil]

i scored nan twice and it became -nan?

[cloud sinew]

which is why you don't have only madness

[cloud sinew]

youre playing modded

[ancient gyro]

I could bring out the negative showman pic again that revived my fist

[cloud sinew]

the game behaves different when youre playing modded

[royal shale]

not at the stakes where you don’t have other jokers

[burnt sigil]

brainstorm and some QOL

[serene forge]

keyword probably

[burnt sigil]

oh, thanks

[spring granite]

negative showman vs negative egg

[royal shale]

planets, enhancements, and 8.5X should beat green stake I think

[cloud sinew]

the thing with madness below black stake

[serene forge]

yea

that is also true

[cloud sinew]

is youre probably dying to crimson more than leaf

[royal shale]

and then you can use jokers with it at black stake and above

[serene forge]

white/green scaling is pretty slow

[royal shale]

you can bloat your joker slots before the final blind

[ebon condor]

i mean you can buy jokers right at the end

[cloud sinew]

yeah thats the main strategy

but you still struggle if crimson bounces between madness

[sterile zealot]

But they get eaten no? So you have to hope to hit good +chips and +mult jokers in every shop or else you suffer mega death

Or gamble for eternal ig

[cloud sinew]

madness doesnt destroy on boss blinds

its only small and big blinds

[sterile zealot]

So you get a good setup and skip everything

[cloud sinew]

also you usually "gamble for eternals" with madness, yes

[cloud sinew]

if you need to. most madness runs can make it most of the game without needing to skip at all though

[small needle]

chat am i cooked

[ancient gyro]

omg they were both madness runs

[gentle basalt]

No, you just look for eternal jokers
Madness does not scale in boss blinds so skipping not very viable

[cloud sinew]

skipping is viable if you find a joker that greatly contributes to score enough that it's worth skipping for

blueprint/brainstorm are normally ones you'll skip for

[gentle basalt]

Brainstorm also usually not (since it copies + mult instead)

[cloud sinew]

madness builds rely on planets more than anything

[ebon condor]

well it depends on your setup

[cloud sinew]

so +mult timing doesnt matter as much

[ancient gyro]

aka blackboard or throwback (technically)

[gentle basalt]

I find mine usually using some +mult (even if its abstract or half)

[cloud sinew]

card sharp is xmult

[gentle basalt]

Sorry, idk how i wrote that

[cloud sinew]

also +mults for madness tend to be just for the early game

[spring granite]

I just found an old image

[gentle basalt]

why would you not want +mult with madness

you are saying like its something undesirable

[cloud sinew]

i'm not at all

[small needle]

bato

[ancient gyro]

she didn't say that, it's just a workaround for madness downside

[cloud sinew]

i'm saying that you tend to take +mults for the early game with madness because madness doesnt contribute much to score in the early game

[ancient gyro]

that's often explored

[wintry ice]

where?

[cloud sinew]

most +mults tend to be for the early game

which applies to madness runs

but for madness you can't run non-eternals if youre not on a boss blind without risking them dying

[spring granite]

"Perkeo is giving negative aura"

[cloud sinew]

so you're just stuck with an okay +mult, which is outscaled by planets in the mid to late game

(fist, summit, half, etc)

[ancient gyro]

my fist got class

[gentle basalt]

more than level 20 pairs is a bit ambitious (unless you are playing some other type of hand i guess)

[ancient gyro]

first class

[cloud sinew]

you dont need more base mult from planets than you have from +mult for it to be better off

if I have +15 from summit and my pair is level 8, it's better to copy madness as soon as it gets to x2 (brainstorm scenario)

[hasty onyx]

What does a flush 4oak count as

[willow frost]

a four of a kind

[spring granite]

[exotic mica]

4oak

[cloud sinew]

a 4oak

[gentle basalt]

i am aware of that calculation, i am saying you would much rather find bp, and bs is not enough reason to skip, because it effectively makes your +mult useless

[hasty onyx]

With 4 fingers i mean

[cloud sinew]

bs is absolutely enough reason to skip

[exotic mica]

what the FUCK

[cloud sinew]

still a 4oak

[near marlin]

?

[meager narwhal]

[small needle]

nice

[spring granite]

I know right. I love messing around

[ebon condor]

if it increases your score sufficiently, why not?

[cloud sinew]

"making your +mult useless" doesnt really matter if it's still a huge increase in score

[willow frost]

but it effectively makes your xmult useful

🧠

[ebon condor]

we can talk about hypotheticals and the principles all we want but really it comes down whether its worth it in the situation youre in

[gentle basalt]

yeah, but in my madness runs, usually it is not a "big" increase

[ebon condor]

its not enough of a general to make sweeping claims like this

[wintry ice]

if madness is anywhere over 4x it's massive

[gentle basalt]

this is all gold stake btw

[exotic mica]

ive been playing around with jokerless on nebula and just going for upgrade hands

[gentle basalt]

need to argue by authority, otherwise nobody listens here

[wintry ice]

wow that's mad
ness

[spring granite]

madness is pretty consistent

unlike throwback

[gentle basalt]

throwback is shit

[spring granite]

we all hate throwback

[gentle basalt]

make it 0.5x per blind skipped, and still i wont take it

[ancient gyro]

by anecdotes*

[willow frost]

how is 17 games anecdotes

[spring granite]

you just got lucky 17 times

[wintry ice]

i'd assume that a player who has completed the game twice would have used the joker just as much

[rancid gull]

Does the game still count stickers if you just hit unlock everything?

[spring granite]

(happens to me all the time 50% of the time)

[ancient gyro]

yeah

[dire sage]

#1 cause of rabies:

[gentle basalt]

but 90+% win rate?

[rancid gull]

Goated

[ancient gyro]

losses aren't counted if you just reset before dying

iirc

[ebon condor]

yall this argument is dumb asf

[cloud sinew]

this doesnt mean as much as you think it does

[gentle basalt]

man, i did not even know that exists

and i did not reset

[spring granite]

me either

[gentle basalt]

(intentionally anyways)

[wintry ice]

getting a high winrate with a joker you only take in favorable conditions isn't that wild

[ancient gyro]

tbf this is the same person that dismissed yorick credibility