🕹・game-discussion

[icy hollow]

very unfortunate

[sharp plank]

my highest score

[rugged bloom]

How new are you to this game?

[icy hollow]

rip. ante 24 was grabber

[rugged bloom]

Nice

[icy hollow]

time to 5.4k reroll for a nat negative bean 🙏

[frozen cairn]

5 hours playtime on steam lol

I just bought it tn

[icy hollow]

ok i didnt get anything from reroll

imma sell dna after i use it and hope this judgement gives me something 💀

ok.... it gave me a photo and i already ahve a negative chad 💀 not gonna make enough of a difference tho

[manic talon]

yea man, why wouldnt the game give me this

[rancid gull]

next blind for square value

[manic talon]

disgusting pairslop win on checkered, hate this square ass cant even reach 200 chips what a bum

[weak relic]

Pairslop

[ebon condor]

still one of my balatro favorite screenshots oat

[icy hollow]

Lmao wtf

my run that just died. and the run i had yesterday

[weak relic]

Everyone's eating pairslop

[ebon condor]

balatro fandom wiki my favorite source of misinfo

[icy hollow]

same ante. same e. almost same amount of rounds

[rancid gull]

pair slop is just so good

mmmmm

i'm so gluttounous

[icy hollow]

close to same amount of discards i guess. and purchased cards. not rerolls tho

[rugged bloom]

Have fun

There's a lot you have to learn

[white flint]

this you?

[manic talon]

this is straight up incorrect because wild cards also counts as hearts and diamonds and activates blackboard
The current description is correct, because a hand with no cards does have all cards as spades and clubs in them

[white flint]

i meant to tag the other line but whatever

[ebon condor]

yeah thas why its so funny to me

[rugged bloom]

Why does goldstake run only pairs if high card is guaranteed

Genuine question

[ebon condor]

like who put this on the wiki thinking with FULL certainty that they were correct

[rancid gull]

cause high card sucks

[rugged bloom]

Fair enough

I'm assuming it scales half as much

[rancid gull]

pairs have better chip scaling

[icy hollow]

one look at the reddit and youll find 80% of the commenters there are as equally confidently incorrect

[rancid gull]

15 chips compared to the 10 for pluto

[manic talon]

pair works better because of jokers like duo, seeing double, and ride the bus

[rugged bloom]

Figures

[ebon condor]

pairs have something like 92% consistency, which is basically guaranteed w discards, they have much better planet scaling, which is very important when blue seals are so op rn, and they have more synergies and work better with certain activators (the duo, seeing double, bus, vampire, etc.)

[rancid gull]

pluto can work

[manic talon]

and its not that much harder to do anyway

[rancid gull]

but it's just not as consistent

[rugged bloom]

I run 4oak cuz polyamory

[icy hollow]

i love 4oak

[rancid gull]

flush five

[rugged bloom]

Even better

[icy hollow]

like even in pair runs, i still pick up mars if i can in case pivot to 4oak later

[rancid gull]

valid

[icy hollow]

and just a few mars levels already works great

[ebon condor]

is 3oak still a hype hand or have people kinda realized pairs are just better

[rugged bloom]

Middle child

[icy hollow]

which means i can usually drop my +mult joker atp. and just use like glass/steel and have all slots open for stickers fr

[ebon condor]

i remember there was a period of time like a year ago where there were a bunch of people glazing 3oak

[rancid gull]

more deck fixing is required for 3oak consistently

[rugged bloom]

Not at easy as pair but not as strong as 4oak

[rancid gull]

pairs are just so easy

or more discards

3oak, full house, and straight flush are ones i've never done a build for

[rugged bloom]

Merry Andy my beloved

[icy hollow]

i use 3oak sometimes tho its not that bad

[manic talon]

3oak is pretty good

[weak relic]

Should I do another naneinf run?

Fuck autocorrect

[rugged bloom]

If you wanna

I'm trying the same

[rancid gull]

If you wanna

[ebon condor]

is going for naneinf like. fun?

[rugged bloom]

It can be

[ebon condor]

ive considered trying it b4 but it seems really boring

[obsidian patrol]

Id say so

[rugged bloom]

Lots of frustration and setback

The first one is the toughest

Gets naneinf times easier from that

[rancid gull]

It’s just long

[rancid gull]

And kinda boring tbh

[lucid nymph]

I'm playing the mayhem mod and why am I not able to fuse man with wheel of eternity?

[rugged bloom]

What does plasma sleeve on plasma deck do?

[manic talon]

Get ready to spend most of your run in shop and waiting for the scoring to finish

[rugged bloom]

I only heard "Balanced shop prices"

[ebon condor]

#⚙・modding-general

[lucid nymph]

oh thx

[rugged bloom]

No idea what it menas

[icy hollow]

ok yea seed analyzering. run i just had only had 1 voucher skip on round 1 lmao

[rancid gull]

Past ante 12 shit is so boring

[icy hollow]

so genuine no path to naneinf that seed i guess

[rugged bloom]

Ante 15 to 18 is a bit exciting

[lucid nymph]

fact

[rugged bloom]

Then boring till ante 25 or so

Whenever you naneinf

[ebon condor]

i think my favorite reddit phenomenon is people getting like negative baron in shop on like black stake green deck and going like "guys do you think this run can naneinf"

[dawn gulch]

Ante 40 is fun

[rugged bloom]

I prefer ante 67

[rancid gull]

You sneaky mf

Baron

[icy hollow]

the run i had yesterday had a voucher skip on ante 5 so i guess if played better yesteryda's seed maybe had naneinf potential

[dawn gulch]

Balatro player whenever a Baron/Mime appears in Shop: "Is this naneinf run?"

[rancid gull]

The answer is yes

Always

[rugged bloom]

That's exactly what I'm doing

[harsh juniper]

Would it let me ankh?

[rugged bloom]

No

[rancid gull]

No joker slots

So no

[harsh juniper]

Sad

[rugged bloom]

Imagine verdant leaf

[harsh juniper]

My egg serves no purpose lol

[rancid gull]

Verdant leaf licking its lips rn

[icy hollow]

Lowk why i dont like naneinf attempts tho. Its basically just luck based but u only know u failrd the luck once u get to ante 24 😭 which is so much time

[rugged bloom]

Transmascs when asked to bear kids

[manic talon]

Dies to leaf turbo

[dawn gulch]

Temperance eating that egg

[rancid gull]

True

[ebon condor]

arent there like consistent ways to naneinf?

[rancid gull]

No

[rugged bloom]

No

[dawn gulch]

do seeded runs

[icy hollow]

Its basically "can this seed get antimatter and serpent"

And u dont know until u reach ante 24 lol

Or "does this seed have perkeo"

[ebon condor]

wait why does serpent rng matter

[rugged bloom]

I had a failed run with ante 28 antimatter

[icy hollow]

That works too 😭 🙏

[rugged bloom]

For the handsize

[ebon condor]

i thought it was retcon that really mattered there

[rancid gull]

Why do you like flowerpot

[rugged bloom]

Well yes but actually no

[icy hollow]

If u can get serpent without retcon then u dont need it fr

But like its basically needed

[ebon condor]

its so so close to being a good joker

[rugged bloom]

Where else do you plant your flowers?

[dawn gulch]

Cause it helped me win a gold stake run,once

[ebon condor]

in a different meta it could actually be really good

it just has a few issues that keep it low

but its still genuinely good for certain builds

[rugged bloom]

Wild build

[dawn gulch]

Weird that flowerpot doesn't give x4 mult

[ebon condor]

i have so much hope for flowerpot in 1.1 blue stake changes and wildcard buffs could save it so hard

straights are already a pretty good hand, if they become meta, so does flowerpot

i believe

[rugged bloom]

What do y'all think new blue stake will be

[ebon condor]

i have a feeling that its gonna be smthn nobodys expecting

[latent egret]

-2 hands

[rugged bloom]

Please no

[ebon condor]

thunks gonna pull something outta nowhere

[latent egret]

you start 300 dollars in debt

[tacit stream]

New Blue Stake: +1 Discard, -1 Hand /j

[latent egret]

serfdom simulator

[rugged bloom]

New Blue Stake: all cards with blue color in their art are debuffed (jokers, planets, tarots included)

[icy hollow]

U start with a bloodstone

[rugged bloom]

Hi Red Deck

[rugged bloom]

Hmmmmm

[ebon condor]

blue stake will be "Joker, Tarot, Planet, and Spectral cards may appear multiple times"

actually makes the game so much harder

[dawn gulch]

-1 Booster Pack in shop

[rugged bloom]

New Blue Stake: Kings held in hand give 0.67x mult

[ebon condor]

close enough. welcome back old orange stake

[dawn gulch]

Or Voucher only appear every 2 antes

[tacit stream]

OK hear me out: -1 hand size

[dawn gulch]

No way

[rugged bloom]

Old gold stake

Pretty sure

[ebon condor]

what could possibly go wrong

[dawn gulch]

That was old gold stake

[rugged bloom]

New Blue Stake: +$1 booster pack price for every ante

[ebon condor]

wait booster packs in shop give you more money now

fuck yeah sign me up

[rugged bloom]

No it costs more per ante you play

[ebon condor]

oh you edited it

DAMN YOU

my loophole...

[dawn gulch]

Small Blind becomes Big Blind

[rugged bloom]

Flowerpot lover can't be expected to be literate 🥀

[rugged bloom]

Okay Ascendant Stake

[tacit stream]

Blue Stake update: No Small Blinds

[ebon condor]

blue stake gives you a skip quota you cant win the run unless you skip at least 3 blinds

[rugged bloom]

Okay Platinum Stake

[white flint]

need more retriggers

ancient joker is like x58

[dawn gulch]

Plant is coming

[latent egret]

you gotta have found something better than abstract

[ebon condor]

i dont really understand this mod tbh

[white flint]

its ante 5

[tacit stream]

like this

[ebon condor]

like is vibemathing really that hard?

[patent sail]

chat i unfortunately got a baron run

[ebon condor]

you are banned from talking here until you repent im sorry

thats the rules

[patent sail]

i would die if i didnt take him im so sorry

[patent sail]

a pretty cutie and photograph

[rugged bloom]

Who got that one screenshot

[patent sail]

i do

[white flint]

yeah

plant wont appear

[rugged bloom]

Could you send it

[white flint]

ante 7 and no plant

[patent sail]

here you go

i have a non speech bubble version too

[rugged bloom]

Thank you

[patent sail]

in my case i just had way too many kings on ante 5 and he spawned in on their smell

he could smell my steel kings

[dawn gulch]

Add Magnet Joker so Steel Card ALWAYS drawn first

[rugged bloom]

I had a quad copy run fail cuz I couldn't find a mime

[white flint]

i think ive got a flush

i alr got this achievement tho

[rugged bloom]

Flushed

[tacit stream]

😳

[dawn gulch]

Almost SFlush

[rugged bloom]

Yes

[patent sail]

Slush

[rugged bloom]

Almost a flush house

[patent sail]

is it worth replacing foil fist with +43 fortune teller idk

teller gives x2 more mult but fist is foil

[latent egret]

depends on if you have any chips

[patent sail]

castle on +100

[white flint]

3 more decks to get everything on black stake

including erratic (bum to me) black and painted

i hate erratic

[patent sail]

meh i lowk win regardless i wont take the teller

im on orange anyway, on gold id think

[rugged bloom]

Orange and gold are the same except the rental right

[patent sail]

gold adds rentals

[white flint]

i like money

[patent sail]

dumb fucking run

[rugged bloom]

Here comes the money

[rancid gull]

It’s not that dumb

[patent sail]

i lowk just played whatever non-face garbage i drew and it won

[patent sail]

not even looking at what it is

[rugged bloom]

If it won its not dumb

[patent sail]

but i mean the setup looks scuffed

[rugged bloom]

I had one run where I was exclusively using the bull to score

One scoring joker, one copy, 3 econ jokers

I also had one on Gold stake that was exclusively chips

[patent sail]

plasma deck my beloved i assume

if not thats impressive

[rugged bloom]

Yes

Sock, Runner, Scary Face, Hiker, and something else

Lemme see if I can find it

[patent sail]

now my baron has orange sticker im so ashamed

it should have no stickers

[wet jackal]

Also I can't be the only person who resets a bajillion times at the start of the run in order to secure a 1 hand small blind clear

[rugged bloom]

Damn

[rugged bloom]

Scholar

[wet jackal]

Like blue stake just makes the ante 1 small blind take an extra hand half the time and it's annoying starting off with 1 less dollar

[fringe nebula]

i used to be

now i don't care

[patent sail]

im so smart i crashed my +58 bus

[hollow nebula]

I do pairs/five of kinds so ride the bus seems so mid to me

[fringe nebula]

how is rtb mid when you do pairs

[hollow nebula]

Idk

[patent sail]

i think the house boss deserves to be incinerated

[fringe nebula]

nah

[hollow nebula]

What does it do again

[fringe nebula]

i think ante 3 tooth is the worst thing

[patent sail]

doesnt let you see shit

[rugged bloom]

First hand face down

[hollow nebula]

Just play 1 hand and discard everything

[wet jackal]

Ride the bus is good but it's like, the most unfun thing ever so I don't ever use it

[rugged bloom]

Ante 9 Plant without rerolls

[dawn gulch]

Like they said, the house always wins

[patent sail]

bitchass crashed my bus

[hollow nebula]

I know somebody who reached ante 17 and died to the plant

Heartbreaking

I'm pretty sure they were doing flush fives it five of a kind

[patent sail]

plant will never kill you if you dont build into faces

which is what i do

[wet jackal]

The plant, the needle, and violet vessel are probably the 3 biggest run ending bosses

[fringe nebula]

plant kills face builds?

[hollow nebula]

Yeah but joker cards that affect face cards are insanely good most of the time

[patent sail]

plant is nothing to me i fucking hate faces

and baron

[fringe nebula]

you always want some kind of backup plan instead of fully commiting when you do face build

[patent sail]

we early plant is like nothinh

[wet jackal]

Plant does nothing to me not because I don't build into faces, but because I'm a paircel who runs pairslop every run instead of being a flushchad

[hollow nebula]

FUCK I forgot gifs arent allowed anymore

[hollow nebula]

I almost never get photochad runs and when I do I immedietly lose

[hollow nebula]

The needle is worse than the plant

[wet jackal]

Tbh that's a horrid boss for every hand

And I usually clear it with pairs anyways because of the bajillion mercury levels

[dawn gulch]

Needle and Eye are the 2 difficult one

[patent sail]

plant killed 0 of my runs

needle killed like a bajillion

[hollow nebula]

I lovvveee mercury

My favorite planet because of balala

[patent sail]

needle is the true evil

[hollow nebula]

Obelisk players don't exist and I will stand by that

[fringe nebula]

i always feel glad whenever i face the needle or the wall at ante 3

[patent sail]

wall just jumpscares me at the worst possible moment

[hollow nebula]

The wall isn't that bad

At mid game it's horrible

[patent sail]

i always die to it 💔

[dawn gulch]

Obelisk is good,just get good

[hollow nebula]

Beginning and late is fine

[hollow nebula]

Obelisk Is good, just don't have fun

[patent sail]

obelisk saved 2 of my runs yesterday please reconsider

[fringe nebula]

exactly why i said always feel good whenever i see the wall at ante 2-3

please read

[hollow nebula]

Oh yeah

Mb

[wet jackal]

There are some bosses that do nothing, and then there's the 1 single boss that counters my build and my build alone and it is guaranteed to appear

Also stuff like needle and wall which screw everyone over equally

[patent sail]

riff raff spawned rtm ❤️‍🩹 w riff raff

[dawn gulch]

Ok for real like Obelisk mostly relies on Green Joker or Ride The Bus for flat mult

[fringe nebula]

obelisk relies on stone cards for chips

[patent sail]

truth nuke

[fringe nebula]

or 3oak levels

[hollow nebula]

I need to use stone cards more

[patent sail]

negative perishable hallucination ❤️‍🩹

[hollow nebula]

I'm mostly beginning the game so I wanna if it's possible to do pairs with stone cards

[wet jackal]

Obelisk and ride the boss are both insanely good jokers that feel horrid to play with

[patent sail]

it absolutely is

[patent sail]

ride the bus feels horrid?? hell na im happy to see it any day

obelisk depends

[glossy forge]

I swear the goofiest runs always involve Perkeo

This Bull saved my hide

I already bought Heiro and Petroglyphs

[hollow nebula]

Astronaut joker is so good but your luck with it is either really good or really horrible in most runs

[glossy forge]

I'm gonna buy Antimatter now

[wet jackal]

I like putting all my enhancements and shit on face cards, what if I get the mythical photochad that appears on every other run

[hollow nebula]

I understand obelisk but rtb?? Only reason I don't use it is because I'm a dumbass at the game

[wet jackal]

Bro honest to god I should be building more into my other cards but I damn near always try putting everything on faces because of how good the jokers are for face cards and how little I get punished for it if plant shows up since I run pairs

[plain briar]

what do i replace

[fringe nebula]

?????????

obelisk is fun

[gloomy swallow]

there are other jokers that can help with that, burglar and DNA indirectly help

[inner hollow]

I hate ts

[glossy forge]

Ripping three Temperances felt so satisfying

[gloomy swallow]

even 6th sense does

[glossy forge]

The Ox took me down to $0

[hollow nebula]

I usually just use six sense once or twice then sell it

Because spectral cards are amazing

Actually no

I only do that when I'm bored and in the middle of a horrid run

[rugged bloom]

I'm in class and can't wait to go back and naneinf push

[shy solstice]

Uniros a mi sala porfa. Gracias

[fervent quarry]

Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

[patent sail]

who dies, i want that card sharp

[stone shell]

teggnically worse as a rental because of interest

[harsh juniper]

Finally unlocked erratic deck

[rugged bloom]

I would kill the egg

This close to winning

[stone shell]

its ante 7, egg for sharp atp

[patent sail]

i mean im thinking of egg too but sticker and temp

[rugged bloom]

What's this mod that allows you to see the blinds from the shop?

[patent sail]

okay bye egg

[patent sail]

unblind

[rugged bloom]

Stuntman?

[rugged bloom]

Thankies gay

[patent sail]

score will explode and die

[stone shell]

do you need the chips

[patent sail]

egg died

[polar bay]

where can i talk about my naneinf bc that was experience

[patent sail]

right here? idk

[patent sail]

SOUL???

its perkeo or yorick, only those arent gold stickered

does anyone die for soul or lowk pass

[stone shell]

pass

[patent sail]

im thinking pass

would be cool to gold sticker perkeo but i die

bye bye soul

[rugged bloom]

Tell me more

I'm trying to push naneinf

[polar bay]

Well got my first naneinf last night.

Quite the experience i have to say

[patent sail]

last boss is crimson fart but i got money and retcon

get fucked crimson fart

i prolly want to reroll into like acorn, right?

[rugged bloom]

Tell me more

📝

[polar bay]

Oh that was fully luck based tbh, what turned out to be a naneinf started as a good four of a kind, econ build.

Never got vouchers i need, had luck to get an net neg blueprint by showman, to be able to still have dna with burgler and serpant rolling ain ante 25 or 26

Saw mime at the beggining like 5 times and i thought it was bait but it worked out somehow

[twilit panther]

I got a natural negative+foil perkeo. How is it possible to be both negative and foil?

[polar bay]

Like, the start didnt look like a baron build at all. No red seals, just a mix of blueprint, goldenticket and gold cards with photochad that somehow worked itself into a baron build.

[patent sail]

??

[patent sail]

its not, is it really both?

[twilit panther]

Yeah

[patent sail]

unless you got mods thats not supposed to happem

[stone shell]

you need to send a picture

[twilit panther]

Rn I am on mobile

[patent sail]

its foil

negative is for the cards it makes

[marsh swan]

I can already see the plant

[rugged bloom]

Foiled again

[patent sail]

copies i mean

[marsh swan]

I'm so fucking scared

[twilit panther]

I am dumb

[stone shell]

read the negative description

[polar bay]

I can smell it yeah

[rugged bloom]

So up until a certain point should I golden ticket and idol for the econ?

[marsh swan]

Bait?

[rugged bloom]

And if so, when should I pivot to baron/mine?

[stone shell]

if the seed allows it then yes

[rugged bloom]

Hmmm

Makes sans

[stone shell]

sans

[rugged bloom]

Sans

[patent sail]

6th deck down and more stickers into the pile

[rugged bloom]

Congrats

Is that a curved monitor

[trail pier]

synergy pog

[patent sail]

yay

[patent sail]

it is indeed that

[rugged bloom]

I did this when I was like 30 dollars in debt

[polar bay]

Yes, if you can make it work, i mean on plasma you can make a goldenticket with 2 copies and photochad work that was my route.

Till i got red seal and the pivot to baron

[rugged bloom]

This just proves that anytime you're in crippling debt, just get angry, spawn a king, and your debt will be vanquished

[rugged bloom]

Can't start with the baron mime already?

Even with the gold red seals?

[patent sail]

ill go for green deck as 7th to see why those newbies love it so much

[rugged bloom]

I'll go back to C+ when I'm done with naneinf push

[rugged bloom]

No interest punishment

Allows you to spend as much as you want, at least for gold stake

[patent sail]

green deck is like one of those decks i forget about

im like "oh yeah that one exists"

[rugged bloom]

Me with Zodiac Deck

[polar bay]

No, in my experience not, it just doesnt work out because yiu need the copies on mime for the money on the end of the round and for baron to actually score good.

Goldenticket with a pair or four of a kind is a better way for me, baron pivot is, for me atleast, after ante 8 with good money and a component of baron or mime already.

[rugged bloom]

And Nebula

[rugged bloom]

So how much money during the pivot and when?

[patent sail]

actuslly so true

they arent bad by any means but i lowk dont remember about them most of the time

[stone shell]

you can but you need the tech first

if you cant find it then idol pivot to baron mime is also fine

[rugged bloom]

Golden Sock Idol

[visual niche]

kms

[patent sail]

"start with baron mime"

[rugged bloom]

🥀

[stone shell]

thats because they suck

[rugged bloom]

Start with baron mime I mean after the deck is set up

Not doing the idol pivot

[trail pier]

credit card in buffoon pack

[polar bay]

So i made the pivot with 300 dollars when baron showed up and i already replaced goldenticket with mime because hsd red seal gold and used those for money.

In the end i got up to like 6000 dollars for serpant and burgler rolling

[patent sail]

they died to ante 2 with polychrome

thats like

so funny

[visual niche]

a fate worse than death

[rugged bloom]

How much do I roll per shop for looking for the required jokers?

[visual niche]

brainstorm is RIGHT THERE

[stone shell]

also on white stake 🥀

[visual niche]

[grave sky]

please tell me there's anything i can do to save this run 😭
i restarted the game multiple times and still nothing

[polar bay]

You just do light rolling with that kind of money, because of showman for more copy effects

[patent sail]

edit the savefile is the only way

[bleak hemlock]

grrrr

[rugged bloom]

So like, till $30?

Cuz I was having money problems a lot

[polar bay]

I rolled up to 15 mostly, maybe that was too much idk but i got the overstock vouchers like very soon so that helped a lot too

[grave sky]

how would i edit it? is there an editor or is it just like a text file like json or something?

[bleak hemlock]

grrrr

[patent sail]

microsoft visual studio can edit anything i believe, but i dont know anything past that

[rugged bloom]

Can it edit my stats and make me better looking?

[patent sail]

we all saw that

[bleak hemlock]

🥀

[patent sail]

it certainly can

but like why would you

[trail pier]

pro gamer move time

[stone shell]

it can make your stats better but it cant make you better

[polar bay]

The econ start is the hardest, but with all components done, you just farm money till you have like 4k to 5k to serpant roll and in ante 25 replace dna with burgler

[patent sail]

25? not 24?

[trail pier]

o dam it's obelisk

[rugged bloom]

I don't wanna look like this

[trail pier]

i have played 24 pairs

[stone shell]

24 is no serpent

[polar bay]

24 is a ante 8 boss blind

[stone shell]

finisher blind

[polar bay]

Yep

[patent sail]

i thought it was on 24 to farm the crimson fart

[patent sail]

yknow the hand size bean

[green apex]

bean bug!!

[polar bay]

So 25 and you have to skip small and big, because you cant make them unless you have troub and both handsize vouchers

[polar bay]

Tried bean bug but couldnt find the bean and i probably was to scared and just wanted it done at 3 am

[patent sail]

serpent is like not even a boss

coughing baby ass boss

[polar bay]

I call it a lovely help for a good baron build

[rugged bloom]

Amber Acorn at times

[stone shell]

ive had it kill a run sometimes because i wanted to draw cards

[rugged bloom]

Violent Vessel after Ante 8

[green apex]

thats also something

ante 8 violet vessel is scary, but then its pathetic

[patent sail]

i think i died at serpent only once and even that completely unrelated to his ability

[patent sail]

99% of the time he is either harmless or helps you

[green apex]

i died at serpent a couple times at the start cause i had no idea what it meant, it was confusing 🤷‍♂️

by start i mean the early days of playing

[stone shell]

amber acorn is a puzzle boss in a group of actually threatening bosses 🥀

[thorny cipher]

Didn't notice I was playing White Stake all the time instead of Gold Stake until the end. ;-;

[rugged bloom]

"Riddle me this Jimbo" aah boss

[polar bay]

But sad that naneinf wont display in your stats is just says you never scored anything 🤷‍♂️

[green apex]

how did you not realise the score though

[polar bay]

Now my besthand is a 900 chips hand i made in the next run before falling asleep

[rugged bloom]

The only advantage of Brainstorm over Blueprint is Amber Acorn

[green apex]

do filtered seeds high scores count towards your stats? (with brainstorm mod or other ways)

[rugged bloom]

You have to turn it on

Else no

[thorny cipher]

I forgot about the score increase so... :v

[grave sky]

okay, so i was able to fix it! i uploaded my save.jkr file to https://balatro.shorty.systems/ and change the value of STATE to 7.

pretty sure it got rid of one of my spectral tag but eh idrc

[rugged bloom]

Fair snough

[patent sail]

shoulve used the opportunity to get a high score of just 5 because thats funnier

[stone shell]

does stuff like blueprint mod and score display also turn off achievements

[green apex]

good luck for your gold stake win though 💔

[green apex]

would be really stupid if it did

[grave sky]

huge thanks for putting me in the right direction :)

[patent sail]

new run, skip both blinds into suit debuff boss and just waste all hands on hc with debuffed cards

[strange abyss]

Calculated

[fringe nebula]

????

bow

[grave sky]

hell yeah!

[rugged bloom]

bow

[strange abyss]

Localthunk thought it would be funny if I got exactly the required score

[polar bay]

Yeah thats true but seeing 0 with highest money of 6k and 6 k played high hands is funny too

[strange abyss]

hmmmmmmmmmmm

I should sell hologram for faceless

[oblique panther]

triple legendary

[patent sail]

my stats are like completely broken

[trail pier]

obelisk my beloved

[stone shell]

best winstreak of all time is 0 🥀

[patent sail]

highest ante 5 🔥🔥🔥

[stone shell]

ashy you need to win a game to unlock blueprint

you know that right

[patent sail]

nah, some other day

[polar bay]

How-

[patent sail]

just broken

thats it

idk they have been frozen forever

[oblique panther]

i swear im normal

[polar bay]

Thats crazy

[oblique panther]

three of a kind is a good hand okay

[patent sail]

you are not what the fuck

[rugged bloom]

Imma see my stats once brb

[patent sail]

i am NOT hearing anyone out on 3oak

[polar bay]

I love to just stare at and realize that i did it

[oblique panther]

does nothing 🗣️ 🔥

[unreal topaz]

i've done it with card sharp specifically

and with burnt on erratic

[patent sail]

insanity

[unreal topaz]

it's rare that its a long term play

usually its a stepping stone

[patent sail]

this

why would someone ever play 3oak long term

[unreal topaz]

card sharp

i just said

[oblique panther]

its easy to win blinds

[patent sail]

pair is right there

[oblique panther]

3oak with half joker or wtv its called

[unreal topaz]

without scaling +mult 3oak scales faster

[polar bay]

Pair is stuck to your leg and wants attention while you pick up 3oak...

[unreal topaz]

with scaling +mult pairs scale faster bc you can be greedier with pairs

[patent sail]

yesssssss i love greed

in this household we dont touch the photograph

[unreal topaz]

why do 4oak when you can do pairs and discard 5 at a time for rebate

[patent sail]

how are yalls blueprints and brainstorms so high i genuinely find them once in 5 gazillion runs

[unreal topaz]

endless

they double count if you have two

[oblique panther]

i lose the runs that i dont get them 🔥

[patent sail]

wild

that explains it

i dont play endless

[oblique panther]

also skipping the first two blinds for those 25 bucks when boss blind is defeated and rare tag

:3

[patent sail]

investment tag based, rare tag ehhh

[fringe nebula]

https://www.reddit.com/r/balatro/s/gPEkGzu5dJ @serene forge you will ABSOLUTELY love this tier list lmaoo

[polar bay]

They are at second place and third place for me, they show up so much

[patent sail]

all rares i ever see are fucking BARONS

[unreal topaz]

it's already dubious to skip, it's especially dubious to go into the boss without checking the first shop

[patent sail]

chuddy ass tierlist

[oblique panther]

ey 600 aint hard to beat with no jokers vro

[unreal topaz]

on the manacle it can be

[patent sail]

we need a slur for white stakers with opinions like this ong

[unreal topaz]

depends on the boss

[oblique panther]

i know

[unreal topaz]

also depends on the deck

[patent sail]

black 🎀

[unreal topaz]

on like red or blue deck i'd be more comfortable going feet first into the boss

or painted, or checkered, or plasma

[oblique panther]

i forgo that thing existed

[patent sail]

how do you forget this nightmare

[oblique panther]

oh god i need to get gold stake on that ughhhh

[polar bay]

Plasma you can do the first 4 rounds just with straights and oneshot the blinds, idk about gold but im more of a highscore player so idc

[patent sail]

i like money

[oblique panther]

i do not enjoy torture

[patent sail]

nor do i but i cant forget about black deck ever

[polar bay]

How many soul cards did you use?

[patent sail]

22

[polar bay]

I feel like with the playtime i have, 66 is so low?

[patent sail]

green deck is so boring

[polar bay]

I remember skipping some in a trib run but i dont have that many, but it feels like so many more

[polar bay]

Yeah i forget that it is in the game

[patent sail]

i skipped one today

[oblique panther]

(high card)

[patent sail]

on a gold stake run cuz nowhere to fit it

[patent sail]

ikrrrr and then theres newbies glazing the hell out of it

[polar bay]

Yeah no i get that but sometimes i dont see any for like weeks and it randomly pops up at its a yorick or idk

Yesterday i got a perkeo after 2 weeks

[manic talon]

Which way western man? (its bloodstone)

[oblique panther]

i literally dont know how some ppl like it

[manic talon]

immediately rewarded EZ

[polar bay]

Idk why anybody would like it

[oblique panther]

i got three legendaries on it like an hour ago

[patent sail]

i got 134 hours on balala 👀👀👀👀

[patent sail]

idk easier money earning mechanic for newbies i guess? interest may be hard to grasp fpr them

[patent sail]

green deck of all 🥀

i just keep seeing new people whos first win is green deck

[polar bay]

Yeah i guess, but money managment isnt that hard and interest isnt either well yeah i still make a mistake if i have a joker i dont need and i could sell it for a dollar more of interest but idk 🤷‍♂️

[patent sail]

it even looks weird

like thats not a color a deck can be

[oak axle]

Guys help me decide

Should I slime out Mr face card for rebate

[patent sail]

kill scary

if youre doing baron mime youre likely doing hc

[oak axle]

Yeah

[patent sail]

and +30 is like nothing

[oak axle]

Wtf is that pfp

[heavy hare]

hack 👅

[oak axle]

Is that a jolteon

Or a cat

[manic talon]

I LOVE BLOODSTONE GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

[oblique panther]

i just stared cro

[patent sail]

id assume so

[heavy hare]

cavendih 👅

[oak axle]

Nuuuu

[polar bay]

I think they like bloodstone...

[patent sail]

hornet killing you

[manic talon]

i dont car

[oak axle]

Not yet but I'm doing five rn and have 0 levels on my Pluto ;-;

[patent sail]

well are you playing like any faces

[oblique panther]

car

[strange abyss]

car

[manic talon]

wdym you have no pluto levels

[oak axle]

Mostly my glass Kings??

[oblique panther]

fym canned food

[patent sail]

man why glass kings on baron

kill scary anyway

[manic talon]

with flush 5 you dont need the scary face chips either way

[oak axle]

I need score

[patent sail]

3rd dna ❤️‍🩹

[oak axle]

I had a triple Chicot build easlier with this build

I mean seed

[patent sail]

coughing baby ass vessel

[oak axle]

But this seed ALSO gives you Baron Chicot and Blueprint on Ante 2

As well access to make your kings glasses

[oblique panther]

boss blind shot dead by the chicots

[wooden sluice]

coughing hydrogen vs bomb baby ahh

[patent sail]

vessel found dead in a dark alleyway behind the casino building

[oblique panther]

also chips run frfr

couple of 400 chips aces

[manic talon]

3 chicot is funnier than baron could ever be

[patent sail]

tiny vessel is funny indeed

[oblique panther]

when invis hits that michel

mmmmm banan..

[patent sail]

sir huesos ❤️‍🩹

[fringe nebula]

scary stuff

[fringe nebula]

i'm really struggling with this one but now that the driver's license is active i'm finally free

bean is good

[rugged bloom]

Sly Joker no sticker?

[ebon maple]

B2B runs with round 1 pants

Tysm game

Sad to end the zodiac deck already though

[vagrant wagon]

What should i do now 😅

[ebon maple]

Drivers license top tier as always

[fringe nebula]

not yet

...................

[rugged bloom]

oh is this a new save

[fringe nebula]

was expecting canio/yorick/perkeo/chicklets

i got trib on bus build instead

[vagrant wagon]

Uff

[patent sail]

free 10 bucks

[unreal topaz]

yeah on gold stake since there's relatively few chip jokers buffoon packs have a lot of bad hits, even more than usual, so you dont usually buy much for the first 4-5 rounds or so

and bc you can survive the first 4 rounds comfortably, 3k on round 5 is a bit sketchy but usually fine

usually by round 5 you have something giving you points somehow

[fringe nebula]

showman gold sticker

you know the usual phrase. always trust in eternal rebate

[vagrant wagon]

Are you kidding me 🫠😅

[hidden lance]

sure whatever

[knotty zodiac]

nice. you working on c++^2?

[serene forge]

here win

[hidden lance]

its giving me a combined 48 chips currently

[fringe nebula]

with one year gap between each c++

[knotty zodiac]

hows this one feel compared to the last

[tranquil steppe]

Now they just need hologram

[fringe nebula]

I'm MILES better than how i was a year ago

[tranquil steppe]

Murrica won gold yesterday

[knotty zodiac]

nice to see that theres a high skill ceiling

[wintry igloo]

welp that was a goodie

which made me earn gold stake in red deck

time for the blue

[rugged bloom]

Unironically useful for naneinf push

Can I eat this ecto

[fringe nebula]

if it hits mime

then we good

[cosmic harbor]

got any of them mimes?

[native cape]

what order should i have jokers? im playing polychrome lucky redseal kings

[wintry igloo]

both at the same time 😭

ima go broke

[wintry igloo]

[grave sky]

blueprint, hanging chad, photo, photo, holo brainstorm, brainstorm, seltzer and whatever that last one is

you want to copy hanging chad

since photo only triggers on the first face card

[native cape]

ahh ok

so full copy chad

[grave sky]

yep

[native cape]

holyyyy run.

pls trib

or perkeo

it was chicot.

[mystic bear]

it was chicot, wasn't it

[native cape]

ffs

[mystic bear]

LMFAO

[night bridge]

Invis copying invis incoming

[native cape]

kill me nowe

[night bridge]

Triple chicot potential

[mystic bear]

that's tragic

[tacit stream]

dupe chicot and demolish the wall and vv

[native cape]

you can do a bug with chicot cant you?

i have needle coming up

[simple hull]

yeah it doesnt disable bosses in the code, it just reverses the effects

[native cape]

i died but this has good potential i guess lmao

got bp from a wraith

VF7QQJTU - seed

[glad viper]

i gotta get rid of something, theres no choice to do so, what do i erase

[simple hull]

why do you need to get rid of smthn

[glad viper]

stencil

also because stencil

[simple hull]

i mean chad unless youve got a lot of enhanced cards that benefit from those retriggers

[covert steeple]

So what exactly does Perkeo do? I know it exists and its a legendary, but I never understood what it does

[tender lotus]

banan

[simple hull]

duplicates a held consumable

[covert steeple]

Ah

[glad viper]

too late, chad was found dead in the bronxs

[covert steeple]

Again, not that far into the game, so forgive me if I ask stupid questions

[simple hull]

all good man thats why we exist

[zenith imp]

can i naneinf w this? (custom joker for the hell of it)

[simple hull]

nope

[zenith imp]

ok

arigatou gozaimasu

[urban flower]

guess how good i am based on my tierlist

[zenith imp]

uhhh good at the game

[simple hull]

nope

grimbo and bus are atleast A tier

[tender lotus]

noooo

[bleak hemlock]

infinity stones

[tender lotus]

interest being in C tier is a crime

[river hawk]

I agree with most of this but obelisk is B tier and bootstraps is B tier also ancient joker is S tier

[sullen apex]

Cloud 9 not in Z tier? Smdh

[swift inlet]

the one on the right of the jj joker should be A

[river hawk]

Ride the bus absolutely deserves F tier im not being sarcastic

shit joker

[simple hull]

horrible take

[urban flower]

thats a mistake, it should be in b

[sullen apex]

One of the best scaling mults in the game f tier.

[urban flower]

i kinda forgot what bootdtraps is, obelisk is NOT b tier in my opinion, and ancient is high a / low s

[urban flower]

vampire is only good with midas mask

[sullen apex]

Or any tarot gen

[cloud sinew]

Very bad

[bleak hemlock]

yes

[urban flower]

😭😭😭 what gives it away

[cloud sinew]

Showman

[zenith imp]

correct

[cloud sinew]

also Obelisk and Bus

and Trib

[urban flower]

ah i see

[sullen apex]

Obelisk

[urban flower]

i have one gold stake win

[urban flower]

yeah i just dont like obelisk 😭😭

[icy hollow]

ok next run. up to ante 13 now

got antimatter

already

and ecto

[cloud sinew]

also DNA, Idol, Splash, Baron, Bloodstone, Hiker

[bleak hemlock]

i also dont like obelisk even if its kinda sauced

[icy hollow]

but no retcon yet

[urban flower]

splash was a joke, dna is s in my opinion, so is baron and bloodstone, hiker was meant to be in b my mistake

[cloud sinew]

baron is one of the worst jokers in the game for a8

[icy hollow]

bloodstone 💀

[simple hull]

ngl I dont hate splash being high, def not S but maybe a high B low A

[fringe nebula]

as long as you don't say something you have no clue about is bad, it's usually good here

[cloud sinew]

it doesnt do much at all

[simple hull]

really good for chips if youve got a setup that can use it

[cloud sinew]

No it isnt

[covert steeple]

Appreciate the advice

[cloud sinew]

its like +39 at max without other jokers to help you out, and with other jokers its not gonna be that impactful because of how easy it is to run them

[fringe nebula]

is this a ragebait

[urban flower]

no im just bad 😭

[fringe nebula]

atleast you put vagabond in A

[simple hull]

I just realized jimbo is in S lol

[wet jackal]

Blue seals are the worst seal in the game

[urban flower]

which are misplaced

[simple hull]

absolutely, I think they need a buff

insert several people are typing

[wet jackal]

Yeah they should give you a black hole instead of a planet

[fringe nebula]

burnt joker is bad because you have -1 discard

[cloud sinew]

why do you have hand specific jokers in their own tier? also the sin jokers arent hand specific

they reward flushes, but theyre not specific to flushes

[urban flower]

i couldnt be bothered to rank hand specific or common suited jokers 😭😭😭 im just lazy

i would probably put most of them in b or c anyway

[simple hull]

nah honestly it needs to be telescope + observatory if you dont already have it, and then five negative copies of the planet card

per seal

[fringe nebula]

jimbo is in S i agree

it costs only $2, and gets you out of ante 1 with very few money spent

[simple hull]

Yeah honestly i agree with that take, I unironically held it the entire run i golded it on

wasnt saying it doesnt deserve to be there, more so that its crazy against some of the other takes lol

[terse vale]

hullo

[wet jackal]

Ok unironically though, real take here, space joker should be a guaranteed planet upgrade every 6 hands instead of being a random 1 in 4

The random 1 in 4 is just objectively unfun unless you have a 6s because sometimes it carries for free and other times it does nothing the entire run.

Reason I say 1 upgrade every 6 hands instead of 1 upgrade every 4 is because making it guaranteed would buff it pretty hard seeing as you get a guaranteed planet for whatever hand you want.

[simple hull]

I think it could also be the old bloodstone odds, 1/3

[terse vale]

I feel like its fine as it is

cus then it would just be a better burnt joker lowkey

[ancient gyro]

"objectively unfun"

that's a new one

[tacit quail]

space joker is fun

[fringe nebula]

every joker doesn't need to be strong
let space joker being space joker imo

[wet jackal]

Ok I just don't like it doing nothing for 6 antes and then buffing some random hand I wasn't using

[terse vale]

luck issue not to be rude

[fringe nebula]

that's what makes space joker funny, no?

[ancient gyro]

you put fun in an objective statement, what do you want me to say

[terse vale]

also i'd play small hands with it

if you're not doing that already

[simple hull]

it does favor the hand types that require multiple plays per blind more than big hands, thats just how statistics works though

[ancient gyro]

yeah its essentially misprint logic

that's part of the game

[wet jackal]

And also I really like jokers offering a bunch of macro decisions

This basically just allows you to sacrifice all your hands to then get a free planet upgrade for whatever hand you want every 1-2 blinds. Makes it a tad bit more powerful for large hands seeing as they're not gonna be played as much

[ancient gyro]

as most roguelikes are

sacrifice?

at default it's a pair joker

[wet jackal]

The rework I suggested is one planet upgrade every 6 hands played.

[ancient gyro]

fits the theme of other hand scaling/spamming jokers which we have a high abundance of

so worse ev

[simple hull]

going back to why grimbo and RTB are good jokers lol

[ancient gyro]

for a perfectly fine joker

[stark charm]

BIG joker card that two slot

[ancient gyro]

yeah its back to the essentials 🥀

[fringe nebula]

meme jokers should stay as meme jokers

as much as i hate misprint and space joker, i don't think they should be changed in any way

[proven ember]

HOLY MOLY HE EXISTS

[ancient gyro]

also every 6 hands is objectively lower ev

[proven ember]

EVERYBODY CALM DOWN

AAAA

[ancient gyro]

my favorite uncommon

[proven ember]

He's the last one

Jesus

[simple hull]

lowkey drop nana and hex if you can do so without dying

[proven ember]

I need to win this run

[wet jackal]

Yoooo an eternal banner

[ancient gyro]

cool

[wet jackal]

That banners absolutely gonna carry you should pick it up

[simple hull]

fs man

[proven ember]

Photo chad + polychrome glass

Yes?

[ancient gyro]

sure

[simple hull]

assuming you have levels for your hands

yes

[proven ember]

It's 4th round

[ancient gyro]

ante 3 🥀

[fringe nebula]

looks at money
please don't get the tooth at ante 4 and then the wall at ante 5 as finisher

[simple hull]

how tf did we get to ante 3 on round 4

my guy did you skip every blind

[ancient gyro]

yk how

[fickle mesa]

this would make it straight up one of the best chips jokers in the game

[simple hull]

twas just a suggestion, i also suffer from a luck issue lol

[ancient gyro]

1 in 4 makes sense for equivalent ev to celestial packs

ignoring the initial purchase obviously

[fickle mesa]

its equivalent ev to like square joker

slightly lower i guess

[ancient gyro]

yeah

[fickle mesa]

16 chips after 4 hands vs 15 chips

[ancient gyro]

and 1 mult 😀

[fickle mesa]

ya that too

[proven ember]

With this money, should I?

I will be broke anyway

[ancient gyro]

🐘

[fickle mesa]

you will never make a profit again

seriously why are you on round 7 in ante 4

[fringe nebula]

the tooth

[grave sky]

i wouldnt bother

[fickle mesa]

like okay

[ancient gyro]

dies regardless

[fickle mesa]

does your current score x3 defeat the violet vessel

because if so then maybe id do it

[fringe nebula]

maybe you can get out of it from lucky card hits

[hasty pivot]

What do I do here?? I’m scared fr

[fickle mesa]

ya if u have gold or lucky cards u might be alright

[fickle mesa]

hold "r"

and then never use a bloodstone or baron again

because those jokers suck smile

[hasty pivot]

Bro said baron suck

[grave sky]

i get baron slander but bloodstone slander???? insane

[ancient gyro]

yeah

[fickle mesa]

first of all: not a bro, and second of all, yes it does

[fringe nebula]

play gold stake

[autumn fiber]

What happened here (luxury tac challenge)

[fickle mesa]

unless your goal is to get the naneinf glitch its really bad

[hasty pivot]

Nah I be too much of a pussy for that

[ancient gyro]

games been out for two years we get the memo

[fringe nebula]

use baron on gold stake, in fact

[hasty pivot]

only real men play stakes

[oak axle]

Guys hkep what should I do

[proven ember]

Fml

[fickle mesa]

balatro players are like 20% men

[oak axle]

It hits baron

[proven ember]

I will not see a glass joker In the next 200 hrs of gameplay

[oak axle]

The invis

[ancient gyro]

wow who would've seen that coming

[proven ember]

I didn't had other choice

Fuck rental jokers

[ancient gyro]

you could have played out the rounds

[oak axle]

Should I still invis even it hits Baron? Can this be changed m

[lusty kraken]

fellas, can smb give me a quick guide on how to queue ranked?

[proven ember]

And be on -20$

[ancient gyro]

sure

[oak axle]

?

[ancient gyro]

im gonna give it a go

[terse vale]

luck based scoring

highs dont matter the lows can lose you the game

[fringe nebula]

try playing yellow/magic deck?

i swear being able to use triple hermit/triple devil is so powerful

[terse vale]

even if only once

[ebon maple]

Zodiac deck luck is miles better than nebula

[terse vale]

HOOOH I CAN SEE IMAGES NOW

[ebon maple]

W zodiac

[ancient gyro]

oh the deck wasn't the issue

[terse vale]

YESSSIRRRRRR

[night bridge]

I dont know if maybe you rotate some jokers it might change, like selling rebate and buy another one

[native cape]

lol nice shop

[grave sky]

oh no! gambling in my gambling game!

[terse vale]

pls

[fringe nebula]

true

but easier to manage econ

[terse vale]

that doesnt mean bloodstone is good

also balatro is only poker based

aside from how you score the gameplay is different

[grave sky]

if the lows cause you to lose, you got a bad setup

[terse vale]

well bloodstone is usually primary scoring so ya

bloodstone is a bad setup

[ebon condor]

if the lows dont cause me to lose, i dont need the joker

[ancient gyro]

bloodstuh oxford definition

[ebon maple]

Yes it was

The luck in nebula is horrible

[ancient gyro]

yeah cause this was totally nebula

[ebon maple]

Abysmal in comparison to any other deck

[ancient gyro]

can you tell ik what I'm saying

[ebon maple]

I dont understand

[ancient gyro]

ik

its ok I'll run it

[proven ember]

I think I maybe bit unrensponsivle with money

[ebon maple]

Are you asnwering to my photo?

If not mb

[river hawk]

Holy shit

[ancient gyro]

yeah

[proven ember]

U flexin or what

[fringe nebula]

insane luck

+400 chips before ante 6 😭

[rich mauve]

madness and hiker are done

[calm furnace]

picked at 2nd shop ante 8 Jj so goated

[ancient gyro]

this was the seed you were "having trouble with"

just saying

[proven ember]

Ok, but where the glass joker?

[ancient gyro]

where was your win screen

[proven ember]

I don't care about win screen

Unless I have glass joker in my hand

[ancient gyro]

you're not going to sticker very productively with that mindset

[proven ember]

This was nice, 143 rerolls, win but no glass joker,

[turbid sluice]

hello

[covert steeple]

Stickers only come from win screens, right?

[proven ember]

It's the last sticker, I will go mad about him

[covert steeple]

Yo

[ancient gyro]

yeah

[fickle mesa]

adam

[ancient gyro]

evie

[fickle mesa]

are u aware that glass joker only shows up if u have glass cards in ur deck

[turbid sluice]

this is my 2 day playing balatro

[proven ember]

Yes I do

[fickle mesa]

okay

[covert steeple]

How you liking it?

[proven ember]

Why is everyone saying that

[ancient gyro]

he opened the two arcana packs in a2 hoping for a 6 ante cruise

🥀

[terse vale]

just focus on winning first i guess

[turbid sluice]

i realy like it

[covert steeple]

Thats good

[fickle mesa]

i quite like glass joker

[ancient gyro]

me too

[terse vale]

then roll down

[turbid sluice]

super dubper like

[fickle mesa]

apparently docspectre doesnt which is like

[ancient gyro]

what

[fickle mesa]

his only l i think

[ancient gyro]

he has more Ls

he despises stm

and grimbo

[fickle mesa]

yeah whenever he does use it he always complains abt it by the end

[ancient gyro]

which I thought he turned a new leaf but he occasionally sneaks a questionable reply every now and then

[fickle mesa]

tbf he doesnt despise grimbo as much as he just sees it as the worst of the 3 mult hand scalerd